How Deep Space Nine Actually Redeems Garak

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[@bananaboatcharlie]

Bashir: Assuming you're not a spy... Garak: _Assuming._ Bashir: Then maybe you're an outcast. Garak: Or maybe I'm an outcast spy. Bashir: How could you be both? Garak: I never said I was either.

[@leeannasloan2292]

That is brilliant writing!

[@danielc9312]

Garak in a nutshell 🤣

[@Crepetomaniac]

@@danielc9312this is actually direct quoting.

[@KeytarArgonian]

It was so much fun watching Bashir try to figure out Garek.

[@wilhelmhedin8845]

They are so lovely.

[@tmage23]

The video's premise confuses me. Why would a simple tailor need redemption?

[@heathea9678]

Have you seen his season 1 outfit? That's an atrocity

[@KhaosAdmiral]

IKR, Garak is just a simple Tailor and totally not a secretly Uber Badass Cardassian Spy, that would just be silly.

[@tenkenroo]

PLAIN simple tailor

[@jerryharris876]

It's because he's not a "simple tailor."

[@Cheesusful]

Because he used to be a gardener but let the romulans ambassador's favourite orchid die, so after he was exiled he became a tailor.

[@thomasbuckley6175]

the boy who cried wolf... bashir - the moral of the story is that you should not lie garak - are you sure about thaut? bashir - of course, what else could it be? garak - never tell the same lie twice and that's why i love garak

[@thomasbuckley6175]

sorry for the typo

[@Pygar2]

@@thomasbuckley6175 The gray dots to the right, conceal an edit option.

[@kurnhurin4118]

Ricky Gervais uses this joke in a standup

[@jaimiepalmer2289]

One of my favorite quotes in all of the series!

[@gabrielstrong2186]

My fave is “honesty iss just an excuse for lack of imagination.”

[@LocalTribute]

Another good story point for Garak’s redemption is when Kira throws Damar’s comments about his family’s execution in his face. She immediately regrets it, and Garak tells her she did the right thing by saying that Damar pines for the good old days, and that he could use a dose of reality if there is to be a new Cardasia.

[@raven4k998]

I am plain simple Raven4k996 and I welcome you to youtube

[@ThomasFishwick]

A very interesting retrospective, however I feel you glossed over a very important point. He was the son of Tain, the head of the Obsidian Order. Tain trained Garak as a operative from a very young age, he had very little choice in his future. Tain was not the sort of person to leave things to their own devices and some of the methods he used to train Garak were abusive to say the least. Leading to some long term psychological issues (issues I suspect were deliberately engineered by Tain). I would argue it was only after he was exiled and given a chance to develop away from Tain that Garak was able to become the man he wanted to be. Seeing not only his father but Cardassia for what it was, now that he was on the outside looking in and not so blinded by the propaganda. The same thing happened with Damar. The facade the corrupt Cardassian government erected for centuries crumbled and they were left with a harsh truth. This is hat makes the Carsassians one of the more interesting Star Trek races. It's not just Garak that can be redeemed, but the whole race

[@thesilvershining]

Yes, exactly. Well said!

[@foxies8340]

What are you talking about, this guys MAKES VERY CLEAR NUMEROUS TIMES THAT HE WAS TAINS SON.

[@pwhitmore84]

@@foxies8340 Declaring Garak as Tain's son and the acute impact of BEING Tain's Son is an incredibly reductive perspective of Garak as a character.

[@RadioJosiah]

Exactly. Garak didn't take the usual route to the top. He was not there to relish in the cruelty, or for political ambition. He was put into the family business, and he was clever enough to go far, but he never really had the constitution for it. He was raised to torture people, but never truly enjoyed torturing them. There was no one like him in the Third Reich, because the Third Reich was not around long enough to become multi-generational.

[@mikefrederick2696]

@@RadioJosiah I agree to an extent, but I think Garak was also proud of his accomplishments and the intellect that enabled him to play all those parts. I expect (but have no personal knowledge or experience to go on) that he enjoyed the challenge in gaining information by torture and never being sure if it was the truth or what the tortured person thought the torturer wanted to hear. Those mind games appealed to him and meant he knew he wasn't truly sorry for what he had done - and that was yet another layer for a man who delighted in creating layers. The writing of this character and Andrew Robinson's devotion to making him more real are truly inspiring.

[@jamesstephens3222]

Garak is totally redeemable in DS9, because of his remorse and how he acts on it. The actor (Andrew J. Robinson) did a brilliant job portraying such a complex and likable character. One of my favorite characters on DS9. Hats off to him!

[@raven4k998]

Garek is redeemed by his character development plain and simple

[@NormAppleton]

There is no lazy youtube about this. He proved himself to Worf and Martok, later to Sisko. Finally he was a VERY trusted ally to Kira. OP here, might be wondering if Israel are the bad guys. Hint, they are

[@garykubodera9528]

In ALL OF STAR TREK!!

[@Keleigh3000]

I just wanted to put in a good word for Andrew Robinson's wonderful novel, A Stitch in Time, where he delves into Garak's backstory and future after the events of DS9. It's probably my favorite Star Trek novel to date.

[@vanya757]

Agreed, amazing story. Also, parts of it are possibly cannon, because the book was written from the backstory for Garak that Mr. Robinson wrote for Garak while acting, in order to really have a backstory to hide. In other words, A Stitch in Time contains the secrets what Mr. Robinson was hiding from everyone while acting - it contains some of the actual secrets Garak was hiding while we watched him in DS9.

[@falkenvir]

No, Garak is the Paragon of Redemption

[@Bustermachine]

It only occurred to me recently that Garak is a literal 'Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, and Spy'

[@TheNubadak]

How did that happen for you?

[@Baelor-Breakspear]

Same I was in the car and heard him say I’m a simple tailor and I was like huh just like the movie/book tinker,tailor, soldier, spy. This happened to me like a week ago

[@JoeSchmo758]

Mind blown!

[@superitgel1]

Spy?! No way. He simply read something somewhere or was hemming trousers of someone. It is simply coincidence.

[@NormAppleton]

Garak did the math about making fewer die. It's a painful, malthusian idea. He had a task of saving the Federation and Cardassia. He also helped convince the Klingons realize. Galactic politics y'know. What you describe, is a man that in his youth did things that did things he hates. He doesn't seek redemption for guilty reasons only. He wants to fight for it.

[@WesStacey]

I think some other good quotes showing Garak was redeemed occurred in the final season when he and Kira were helping Damar lead the Cardassian resistance. When Damar is distraught about the death of his family and in his remorse wonders "What kind of people give those kind of orders?" and Kira breaks and takes the opportunity to remind him of the occupation saying "Yeah Damar, What kind of people give those orders?" Damar stares at her for a moment then leaves the room without saying anything and Kira immediately regrets it saying it was stupid, Garak steps in and says "...Damar has a certain romanticism about the past, He could use a dose of cold water." He goes on to say that if Damar is really the man they need to lead a new Cardassia than the pain of the news about his family made him more receptive to what Kira said not worse. It's pretty clear that Garak knows full well what Cardassia needs and has long ago abandoned the idea that loyalty to Cardassia means loyalty to the state. Its pretty clear that the wool was removed from his eyes long ago and he understands that saving Cardassia doesn't mean kicking the dominion out and reinstating the old way of things but that Cardassia needs to take the opportunity to evolve and grow, and that he's fully on board with making sure Damar gets that message.

[@mattevans4377]

I don't know why, but somethimg just clicked for me. I'm loyal to my country, but not to my state, too.

[@Schregger]

@@MegaTechpc Heh, aint that the truth...

[@spyone4828]

I remember his line as being that if Damar "... is really the man we both hope he is, ..." It was a great scene.

[@cobes11]

Garak was not redeemed. For his entire life, he was completely single-minded driven by one motivating goal: protect Cardassia. Everything he did from remaining on DS9 after exile to helping the Federation against Cardassia were all done in the name of saving his homeworld. He was a cold-blooded remorseless murderer from start to end.

[@davidcolby167]

@@MegaTechpc What an astoundingly useless thing to say. Like...yeah? If the person you think is right and should be in charge is in charge, you'd think that things were a-okay.

[@krisaaron5771]

What Bashir didn't realize was that sometimes the truth is so painful that you can't tell it straight out. You have to tell your story in little pieces hidden within other stories. Otherwise, the pain of what you've done won't kill you, it will destroy you when the people you've come to care about turn on you because what you've done is unforgivable.

[@arisspenjian1220]

Is this a quote from something?

[@NormAppleton]

Nuance in Star Trek is a pretty cool subject that DS9 did . Quark was great at it. Michael Dorn did it well too.

[@gmajor1273]

Garak was a bad-ass anti-hero before being a bad-ass anti-hero was cool. The chemistry between Garak and Dr. Bashir was brilliant.

[@nickrowley5579]

If you've not, have a read of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy; I think you might enjoy it. :)

[@gmajor1273]

@@nickrowley5579 thanks for the recommendation. I will look for it.

[@nickrowley5579]

Gary Major it’s very British but, if it wasn’t officially intentional the Mentor/Apprentice in the ways of Clandestine services certainly influences Garak/Bashar in ways familiar to those who know the story. :)

[@mattevans4377]

@Gary Major, and done right. An anti hero doesn't just have to dark and brooding or insane, they can have some class too.

[@bpdmf2798]

Anti hero was made cool by Han Solo.

[@LloydWaldo]

“Father.... father you’re dying. For once in your life, speak to me as a father to his son.”

[@jonathanbrightwell272]

I really felt this episode. You felt this episode. The lady down the street felt this episode. We all felt this episode.

[@dustinswafford9232]

Andrew Robinson really brought the character to life. I can't imagine anyone else in that role.

[@TheRealZarp]

I hope that we see a lot of the DS9 characters back, Garak especially. Hopefully in the new Picard show.

[@bigjohnson3151]

Zarp hadn’t even thought about that. That would be sweet if they bring some back

[@slicktrick9640]

@@TheRealZarp idont watch picard but if garek was on it so would i be.

[@jerryharris876]

He wrote a journal while he was playing the character. He wrote about backstory, exposition, etc. & his thoughts and feelings in character and about the character. He wrote a book about it.

[@leedrake7911]

GARAK is the best character created in any tv program/film and cardassians are just based on humans

[@Karagianis]

I've found Garak an excelent case study for how to play a neutral character, he's not good or bad, he's a pragmatist, above anything else.

[@NormAppleton]

When he was introduced, sure. At the end, he was not neutral.

[@johnd.9]

When I restarted playing D&D in 2000, the first character that I rolled up was a charming, lovable rogue. I named him 'Garak' after my favorite Cardassian on my favorite Trek series. In one game, he is captured and forced to take a truth serum. His verbal talents at rhetoric, double-speak and rambling frustrated the villain endlessly as he got no valuable information whatsoever. My fellow roleplayers and the DM were very impressed. The DS9 Garak was definitely part of my inspiration during that scene. To this day, Garak is still my favourite D&D character.

[@tenkenroo]

Pretty much every rouge I play is based of Garak since I love him so much.

[@mindyp51d]

Garak was the epitome of everything that made DS9 so great. Conflict within.

[@Troubleshooter125]

It could be argued that Garak is the single most interesting / complex / conflicted secondary character in all of _Star Trek,_ I suspect ... and the very fact that videos of and about him are all over KZbin is ample evidence to that effect.

[@ashdoglsu]

Agreed 100%

[@jackal59]

I think they wrote to Andrew Robinson's strengths and in doing so discovered they were bottomless.

[@TheRichNewnes]

@@jackal59 I totally agree. They could not have found a finer and more appropriate actor to play Garak than Andy.

[@derekscanlan4641]

you nailed it

[@Jake-cm9jj]

I assume you aren't considering Worf a secondary character for this point (because Worf is probably one of the best developed characters in all of television, but he did cheat by having 2 shows). I would say that Quark and Odo both had fantastic development as well, on par or maybe even surpassing Garak. They did get more screen time than him though. I would say that Garak used the screen time better to develop. Almost none of his lines or scenes are wasted, they all push his character down the road.

[@TabooX1984]

Garak changes because he's surrounded by star fleet's influence. Root beer, like star fleet, is insidious. It's sweet, bubbly and, the more you consume, the more you like it. (Paraphrase from a conversation between Garak and Quark.)

[@moblinmajorgeneral]

Quark: I want you to try something. It's a human drink. It's called Root Beer. Garak: Oh, I don't know... Quark: Come on, aren't you just the least bit curious? Garak: (drink) ... It's vile! Quark: I know. It's so bubbly, and clawing... and happy. Garak: Just like the Federation Quark: Exactly. The worst part is, the more you drink it, the more you begin to like it. Garak: It's insidious. Quark: Just like the Federation Garak: Do you think they'll be able to save us? Quark: I hope so.

[@deannaalbert672]

@@moblinmajorgeneral thank you for the reminder, I'd forgotten about this one.

[@ZakhadWOW]

@@moblinmajorgeneral that's actually CLOYING, not clawing, and the meaning of cloying fits the general tone of that convo very well.

[@ZuluRomeo]

"Worf loves prune juice Morn loves salad Everyone else loves Elim Garak!" Dukat: Not me! "Everyone who counts loves Elim Garak!"

[@gaiusjuliuspleaser]

"Hey, aren't you that guy everyone hates?" "Oh, my, no, I'm Gul Dukat."

[@alexanderward5286]

Underrated Comment

[@nickokona6849]

Hens love roosters. Geese love ganders. Everyone else loves Ned Flanders!

[@michaelbritt7609]

I thought Morn loves to talk. You can never get a word in edgewise, he never shuts up!

[@NormAppleton]

Ned Flanders had a giant dong.

[@DavidMacDowellBlue]

Thank you very much. I think characters like Garak are what makes DS9 the best TREK so far.

[@alanpennie8013]

@@thenewvoice8 It was a good idea to make the location a space station where plenty of people who weren't in Starfleet could plausibly live. So they could have plenty of moral conflicts without breaking Roddenberry's rule about Starfleet officers never doing anything morally dubious.

[@Ertwin123]

@@callumbush1 I fully agree that DS9 is the best Trek series, however TNG is my favorite. Your favorite doesn't have to be the best.

[@Jake-cm9jj]

Yeah, the great part of DS9 is that it had SO MANY quality characters. Almost all the characters were great and really several were as great as Garak. Quark and Odo had fantastic development. Obrien was surprisingly great while being the every man. Julian even grew in fantastic ways. Also while Kira was certainly annoying sometimes, she also ways great other times. Worf and the Klingon plots were just great, and Martok advanced them well. I love TNG, but lets be honest, it mostly is great because only a few characters...the rest are kinda meh. DS9 could take a minor character that was shit and turn them into a hero or villain, or both throughout their story. Also having a great reoccuring villain is an important part of a great story. We have seen this in more modern media, that great villains elevate stories, and Dukat definitely did that. That was what TNG really lacked.

[@iza724]

I love the theory that Elim was like another person to Garak. His fights with Elim that could be serious self conflict and Garak betraying Elim is like Garaks connection with the obsidian order being severed. Garaks character is so deep.

[@Tadpole0110]

Garak is a monster but like a lot of monsters he was a victim first. We see that in his interaction worth Mila and the way he talks about his father. He is a product of the culture he grew up in, an analogy to a generation of German children raise by the Hitler Youth. I don't think of him as evil though. Evil is treating people as things (wisdom of Esmerelda Weatherwax) and I don't think Garak de-humanises people, he sees people for who they are and does terrible things to them anyway. He was prepared to kill his father and mentor, someone he respects and loves. He is completely desensitised to violence, he lives in a dark world. His is a fantastic character; charming, witty and likeable, but from start to finish he is a monster.

[@MegaZeta]

You're describing someone doing evil, FYI.

[@nancytimmer9026]

@@MegaZeta doing evil and being evil are two different things

[@barrywhite6060]

We're all monsters, it's just a matter of if you control it or let it control you. I know I'm a good person with a good heart, but I also know what I'm capable of under the right situation, and there for make sure I'm never in that situation if it's something I can control. I think the world would be a better place if more people were willing to be honest about themselves and their triggers.

[@gezatherton1071]

He is the best written character in all of Star Trek Canon.

[@spacepiratecaptainrush1237]

Redemption is complicated. it often implies that someone has been largely forgiven for the harm they have done. I don't agree with that interpretation. Garak doesn't ever name his crimes because if he did he would likely face judgement, something he fears because as you said, he looks out for himself. There are people who will never forgive his wrong actions, known or unknown and no level of good actions on his part will ever change that. Kira has a begrudging respect and isn't going to kill him on sight but I doubt even she will ever let it go. Redemption isn't necessarily the same as earning forgiveness. I would argue that redemption, outside of religious and spiritual connotations, is an internal process where a person recognises the harm they have done or let happen, resolves to change and follows though, reaching a state where they can look themselves in the mirror and say "I'm okay being this person." and I know this is entirely subjective and impossible to quantify but such are the intangibles of human experience. Was Garak Redeemed? I think so because the narrative showed his struggle to be someone he could look at in the mirror. maybe that is how we should look at redemption, not as a finish line where "I've done enough to be redeemed," but the act of seeking it out. by growing as a person and trying to be better.

[@minimumeffort4948]

@daro2096 Because I can live with it I CAN live with it

[@mattevans4377]

@Captain Rush, star trek in a nutshell then.

[@MegaZeta]

I'd say it's more accurate that the *_show itself_* never names Garak's crimes during the occupation, because the people behind the show knew that if they did, it might become difficult to present him sympathetically, and they'd risk their ability to build stories on him as an enigmatic, likable character. Really, explaining what Garak _did_ exactly back then would have undermined their work to build both Garak and Dukat, and they were quick to realize how important those characters were to the show's stories.

[@spyone4828]

The video seems to equate redemption with forgiveness, but they aren't really the same. Darth Vader is often used as a classic example of a redeemed villain. It isn't that the good he did balanced out the evil, it is that he saw a chance to do the right thing at the cost of his own life, and he took it. For the last five minutes of his life, he was one of the good guys. Garak has a harder version of that, because he doesn't get to die soon. He has to keep on being a good guy, never slipping back, because redemption isn't about who you were, it's about who you ARE. (Unless you are dead, in which case it's about who you were when you died.) By the same token, being "redeemed" doesn't mean a person should be forgiven. At least not automatically. (I think Garak would agree. He'd understand someone hating him for what he's done, since he hates himself for the same reason.) Just because you've been fighting on the side of good for decades doesn't mean you won't stand trial for all those orphanages you burned. But if the concern is purely whether you pose a danger to orphanages in the future, then if redemption were somehow provable it would be very relevant. "I've not been just pretending for decades, I really am a changed man. The man I am today would never burn an orphanage." I agree that the awful things Garak once did probably cannot ever be properly atoned for. But redemption isn't really about that.

[@spyone4828]

About the struggle to be someone who can look at himself in the mirror: I think a very important part of why Garak seems ... real is that when he couldn't face himself it was for two different - and conflicting - reasons. On the one hand, his conscience told him the things he'd done "just following orders" were wrong, and he was ashamed for having done them. On the other hand, his upbringing told him the things he'd done in violation of orders were wrong, and he was ashamed of having done them. If he destroyed the shuttle full of children he's a murderer and a monster. If he didn't, he's a weakling and a traitor. If he did both on separate occasions, he's all of the above. Garak was both a good man unable to face the evil he had done and an evil man unable to face his failures to do evil. He tried to become an amoral man who only cared about himself. And eventually he became a good man who accepted that sometimes one must do awful things for the greater good. (And was maybe a bit too okay with that.)

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

Now do One about Damar... So we can finish "Keeping Up with the Cardassians"

[@RemyMenari]

Awesome video! Though, I'm a bit surprised that Tain being Garak's father is more of a side-note here, as to me that seemed to be the key humanizing element in the end that underlines a lot of Garak's inner conflict and why he was so willing to go through with what he did - when it often seemed that he knew it was wrong, especially with how he acts in The Die Is Cast (and even more poignant, that it's not just about returning to your people). In the end, Garak living up to the expectations and trying to earn the recognition of one of the most important men (and villains) of the cardassian state rounds out his persona of living a life of constant lies and just trying to prove something. Fictional or not, to me it's important for feeling sympathy for Garak; people seldom ever fully walk away from their abusers (and with all the information presented in the series, it's very clear that the relationship between Garak and Tain is very much one of those) as long as they exist, which makes cases such as these so complicated. Only with the demise of Tain it appears Garak is finally able to leave his past behind and becomes truly ready for redemption, even if in real-life he'd still be liable for the crimes and bad things he committed during his years of being an accomplice to a nasty regime. Daddy issues certainly don't excuse all his actions, but at least they frame it in a way where most of us can understand how he could not have simply turned and walked away at *any* prior point. Garak is so complex and compelling because he is the kind of scarred individual that rarely shows how deeply wounded he is by all of this, instead playing off most things with a smile, and some dry wit. We know it's a facade, but unlike Dukat's, it's not one born from narcisim and ego but one to protect the man who maybe never wanted any of this, but didn't get much of a choice in the matter, until it is his exile from his people and family that sets him unto a path where redemption becomes possible.

[@garrickparsons9077]

I always find that it was interesting that Garak wasn't tossed out of an airlock as soon as the Bajor Resistance took the station, and going from that how Kira is uncharacteristically accepting (especially this early in season one) of Sisko's decision to keep him on the station when everyone assumes he is a spy. I believe that Garak's character arc toward redemption started well before he ever set foot on DS-9. It probably started the day he set foot on Bajor as second in the Obsidian Order. (How long was Garak able to serve on Bajor before it became obvious that the occupation was harmful to the Cardassian state?) What do we know? At some point Garak may have released all of the high ranking prisoners from an interrogation center and providing them with monetary assistance. (The Wire). Then Garak blew up a shuttle carrying Cardassians including the daughter of a military official to cover up the escape. (Well maybe we know what happened to Iliana Ghemor.) and then arranged it so that the only only who could possibly take to fall was Garak. Of course this is all lies... Maybe it was more than that...... Was the Obsidian Order (or a high ranking member) assisting, bank rolling, or training the Bajoran Resistance? (Edit) If Garak was a Resistance asset during the occupation it goes a long way to explaining why his 'punishment' was to remain on Terok Nor, and why living on a Bajoran station was a relatively safe option.

[@marnie4629]

Mind = blown.

[@deadeyecpt.7765]

Especially if we consider what happened to the other Cardassian who set foot on the station who had an active role in the occupation.

[@adultdeleted]

i think this dude saying garak isn't redeemable if he were a real person is ignoring the complexity of his backstory, as well. he was raised by an abusive father/mentor with high rank who expected garak to be his replacement in a hyper-fascist world, right? that's not an unimportant part of his character. but i agree with you that garak must have been some kind of asset. ds9 allows some things to be inferred.

[@LordBloodraven]

There is one thing I disliked about Garak: his Mirror-Universe counterpart. Garak-Prime is subtle like Picard's Earl Grey tea. Mirror-Garak is ham-fisted like Voyager's writing staff.

[@slothfulcobra]

Garak-Prime has to tow the line between being useful to any Cardassian agents still around and courting the new regime on DS9, Mirror-Garak has to desperately make a show of how useful he is and how much he tows the party line to please a despotic maniac who could have him executed at any moment on a whim.

[@michaeldougherty6036]

Yeah Mirror-Garak was basically Starscream. It's fitting then, that he is finally tricked and killed by being told just how pathetically inferior he is to Garak-Prime.

[@Baarogue]

I never liked any of the DS9 Mirror episodes because practically all of the counterparts seemed written as ridiculous, campy versions just for the actors to ham it up. Maybe I was just spoiled by Enterprise's Mirror two-parter, which I watched before DS9.

[@ComradePhoenix]

Hot take: Mirror Garak is how Prime Garak acted before his fall from grace.

[@MegaZeta]

Andrew Robinson wasn't a fan of that character either, IIRC.

[@stareyedwitch]

You should have gone into Garak's relationship with Tain more, because that's probably one of the most fundamental and understated aspects of his character. In the episodes By Inferno's Light and In Purgatory's Shadow, Garak tells Bashir that nothing he did ever pleased Tain and that he let Tain mold him into who Tain wanted him to be. Despite being on his death bed Tain never calls Garak "son" and his only real acknowledgement of their relationship is Tain calling Garak a weakness, and saying he should have had Garak's mother killed before he was born. Garak quickly forgave Tain for attempting to murder him in Improbable Cause, which makes sense if one of his primary goals is earning his father's affection. With this in mind, it's possible to view Garak's character arc as him finding his way out of an abusive relationship.

[@luna-hw9li]

4 year old comment, but very well observed. I think the most tragic part is that Garak can't ever leave this abusive relationship. It's a relationship that ends in death.

[@pacmanshooter247]

A very telling moment you did not talk about was at the far end of the 7th season. When Damars wife and children are killed, he wonders what kind of people kill innocents like that. Kira reminds him 'yeah, what kind of people', referring to the occupation of bajor. As she feels she's been to harsh, Garak steps up, telling her that this was the right thing to do, that Damars loss made him more, not less open to her message. The scene shows his acceptance of the occupation being wrong, imo, and that they as a people need to take their own actions for what they were. Edit; Just to add this, Garak was also willing to kill Russout to protect Kira if need be, in the same arc

[@pacmanshooter247]

@Thelondonbadger yeeeah, and you're the one who completly and with all certainty knows what Garak thinks, feels, what his motivations are? We never know for certain what Garaks personal role during the oocupation itself was. Its impossible to say what his personal stance on the occupation is aside from what we see on screen. In the end, its what we choose to believe about Garak, given the few things we know for certain. I personally like to believe the way Garak himself is portrayed in the novel 'A stitch in time' which, while it is non-canon, gives us a very interesting look into Garaks self and in his role on Cardassia, the Obsidian Order and, to a small degree, is role during the occupation. We know that Garak is a skilled liar. The whole interpretation of his character lies within us believing that he keeps on lying most of the time or that he becomes a more genuine person to the outside world in the later seasons. One of the reasons why I think that he is honest with Dr Bashir and others, as well as the viewer, in later seasons actually lies within his last moments with Enabaran Tain. As Tain lies dying, blinded, no longer able to see, he asks Garak if they are alone. Garak gives a pointed look to Bashir, consciously allows him to see this part of himself and has the final talk with his father. Unless you want to interpret this scene as Tains last big cunning moment, understanding that Garak was trying to play a bigger game and aiding him in it, it would be an incredibly personal and potentially dangerous thing to share with Bashir. Of course, you could choose to interpret it differently. Its your choice. I like my version better. I also believe that the person who probably understands Garak the best is the actor who played him. And that guy wrote 'A stitch in time'. So..

[@ZakhadWOW]

good old John Vickery (Rusot) in his classic villain trope. [I believe his best work was as Neroon in Babylon 5 (one of those special rare breeds of actors who worked both ST and B5 over the years, including Walter Koenig, Majel Barrett, Andreas Katsulas, Patricia Tallman, as examples), wiht an actual redemption arc for THAT character, and also as Mr Welles (?) major player in the neofascist Nightwatch. John Vickery.. I wonder what he is up to these days?

[@elimgarak7090]

"You know, some may say that we've gotten just what we deserved. After all, we're not entirely innocent, are we? And I'm not just speaking of the Bajoran occupation. No, our whole history is one of arrogant aggression. We've collaborated with the Dominion, betrayed the entire Alpha Quadrant... Oh, oh, no no, there's no doubt about it - we're guilty as charged."

[@TheNN]

"Do you know what the sad part is, Odo? I'm a very good tailor." I've always taken that line to not be in reference to him being a tailor, but his career as a spy. Being a tailor was simply his cover. He holds no love for the job, it is just his way of making ends meet. So when the moment, a REAL moment arises, for him to go back to the thing he actually thinks he wants, he destroys his old life in order to try and go back to his spy career. His shop is literally in ruins, to try and leave nothing sentimental, to have no feelings about it. Yet by the end, not only has his return to being a spy completely failed, he also believes that he has lost Tain. Thus he's forced to immediately go back to his previous life, the one he tried to destroy because he felt he wanted to be a spy once again. He says that line to Odo, as a double-meaning. Sure he means it literally, but he also, I feel, means it as well to refer to his life as a spy. He was damn good at what he did (Tain agrees with this), being a part of the Obsidian Order. Heck maybe he even enjoyed it at one point. But it's clear now he just cannot be that person again. So as he remorsefully tells Odo that line, it's Garak effectively resigning himself to his fate, an acceptance, good or bad, come what may, of his life on the station. A life he now has to effectively rebuild. Unlike before however, he is at least not rebuilding alone. Like you said as well, his moral compass is also kind of screwy throughout much of the rest of the series, but I feel that in Garak's mind, he is doing 'the right thing' whenever he did those things. We can argue the right/wrong of course, but even so, he probably saw it as him using the skills and knowledge he had, to do what he felt was right all the same. It's also worth noting that Garak's line of thinking is almost solely in lockstep with all three of the major spy organizations we see in the series: Section 31, Tal Shiar, and Obsidian Order. All three agencies, when they learned the truth of the Dominion, immediately came to the exact same realization: Kill the Founders. The first two failed because they were infiltrated by the Founders themselves (probably a standard MO of the Dominion to take out any major spy organization before an invasion I imagine), and Section 31 damn nearly succeeded because they played a subtle, and long-term game, along with not being found out by the Dominion. But by the end, when Garak's 'exile' is finally over, he basically pulls the 'You got what you deserved' argument out on Cardassians themselves, while talking to Bashir. He is clearly trying to bait him, but really is baiting the audience, into agreeing with him. He's basically spelling it out, "Hey, the evil fascist regime got what was coming to them, FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT, DAMNIT!", but when you hear about the hundreds of millions of dead, it's hard to cheer. Sure, they're just a number, and a fictional group of people that died as well, but even so, it would be hard to say the same if a war here on Earth killed that same number. (As an aside, it's worth noting that we never really hear about specific losses on the Fed/Klingon/Romulan side of the war, but we do hear a few times about Cardassian losses with a number involved.)

[@kaigreen5641]

I think Garak has the best on-screen character arc in all of Trek. Its one of the many reasons DS9 is my fav Trek.

[@pavlenikic9712]

Up top! Quark as well. Dream team of star trek for me: Garak, Quark, EMH, Data, Picard. The rest can be filled by others. Not to say i dont like others, just these are pure class.

[@rogerhwerner6997]

Consider Robinson's incredible range. His second roll was the Killer in the original Dirt Harry film. He's also been in loads of horror films. Great actor!

[@auralynn3862]

The Elim-Garak dichotomy is one of the fonder parts of the series for us. Whether it IS a case of multiple personalities or not, it strikes a chord of home and hearth for us in that. But more importantly, it shows an internal struggle with morality and duty far more nuanced and intricate than your typical Jeckel & Hyde story. Garak killed Elim. Garak followed morality and compassion while Elim clung to duty. Garak tried to betray Elim and was betrayed by Elim. It seems that in all of his stories, Elim is always the more vicious of the two... always the more dutiful. Elim is the pride he takes in his craft, his patriotism, his sense of duty and loyalty to the Obsidian Order. Garak is the mournful, remorseful wailing of a conscience drenched in blood, struggling to cope with the horrors of war and the blood on his hands. So ultimately they betray each other. Perhaps Garak sought to cast his duty aside and find some way to sate his moral compass but found his sense of duty - Elim - winning that struggle, ultimately turning himself in for either releasing the prisoners or trying to defect. And so his regret in that is that he betrayed himself... his duty, his principles, his honor, his father's teachings.

[@DarkPriestess1]

One of the things that always struck me in "the die is cast" is how Garak continues to torture Odo until he gets an answer out of him, almost like he had to prove to himself he is still capable of conducting an interrogation, especially on someone he knows. It's killing him, but he has to know if he can still do it, if he still is that obsidian order operative.

[@thomasoaxaca3379]

In my opinion, Garay had to get anything out of Odo, not to prove anything to himself but to have something to report to Tain.

[@NormAppleton]

That's where old Garak died.

[@jimwalshonline9346]

His speech at the end of "Pale Moonlight" is a masterpiece.

[@jesseadair5564]

It's about time you made a video on plain simple Garak

[@dadsdone3524]

Just plain simple Garak. :)

[@kaylaklimas6058]

It says a lot about a show when its worldbuilding is so deep that you can make a 30 minute video about a tailor

[@PrivateVoid1]

Garek is not only one of the most compelling characters in DS9, he may very well be the most compelling, complex and enigmatic character in all of Star Trek. The writers and Andrew Robinson can be justly proud of their fine work.

[@MaraudingManiac]

Garak's redemption situation is implied to been a result of his parents. His evil deeds were done because of his adoration for his arrogant father, despite his father's abusive training and cruelty. His mother, on the other hand, was a brave and compassionate woman. Garak's arc is all about abandoning his worship of his father's way and embracing the influence his mother had on him. In this light, I think Garak always hated the evil deeds he committed, but he did them because his father's conditioning allowed him to think he was doing the "right thing". Despite believing his actions to be justifiable at first, there was always that seed of doubt in his mind that his deeds were repugnant. The fact that Garak still flippantly sticks to some of his bad ways even after accepting that his deeds are wrong and deciding to change is a credit to the writing of DS9. I see some of Garak in my own father, who was mistreated by his father and this mistreatment caused him to accept his toxic fundamentalist upbringing until after his father's death. I think Garak is possible, but even so, I think it's important to recognize that just because we believe someone is redeemed does not mean we forget their crimes. Merely that we give them the chance to live a life that contributes positively to the world instead of negatively

[@MegaZeta]

FYI having a rough childhood is not considered justification for doing the wrong thing. In our legal system (ideally, at least) it's at most considered a mitigating factor in the phase of a trial that determines punishment.

[@GreebleClown]

This this this! Yes!

[@jedi1josh]

Garak was not used as often as he should have on DS9. I wish there were more episodes with him. My favorite moment is when Sisko uses Garak to get information to Cardasia concerning a Klingon invasion.

[@MrOuter]

I think one of the things that makes Garak such an interesting character is that he's conciously aware that he's irredeemable. Garak could have just embraced his bloody past and let that define his character, but he didn't. He tried to be something better even when deep down, he knew that he could never erase his sins, even slipping back to his worst impulses from time to time, and that, in the end what makes Garak such a great character.

[@LioraBCT]

This is summed up, to a degree, in his exchange with Kira when she attempts to console him about losing his home and the Cardassia he dreamed of returning to by saying he can fight for a new Cardassia; Garak responds by saying he can think of a better reason: REVENGE.

[@cammclean5460]

I think part of why Garak works so well in ds9 is that it's a show of morally grey characters and people who aren't necessarily good. They don't play at the virtuous starfleet officers on their scientific mission. The characters are at war, negotiating and fighting, the main characters are soldiers and rebels and capitalistic assholes. Siskos "I lied and cheated" speech really sums up how a character like Garak fits into the show. They're all people with dark pasts doing what they feel they have to to protect those they care about. Ds9 doesn't ask you to see Garak as a good person just a good character who changes and grows as he experiences and learns. This video is a great look at Garak's character arc! Very well done and well spoken.

[@SupremeCleave]

Garak's character development and story arc is exactly the type of thing missing from Voyager and what made DS9 great. Garak went from A to Z by the end of the series. His journey was believable not only because Andy Robinson is a hell of an actor who made it so, but because it took years for the journey to take place. We watched it happen. It didn't suddenly occur as a plot device over one episode and then quickly forgotten about. This really contrasts the type of series DS9 was versus TNG or Voyager. A serial series gives the writers a chance to move the characters along in an arc more easily and clearly than an episodic series. DS9 was my favorite of all the Star Trek series and Garak was an important part of the supporting cast. Special shout out to Garak and Quark having a chat about Root Beer in Way of the Warrior. Top shelf writing. Top shelf acting.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Good point, Voyager way too quickly cast aside the conflict between starfleet and the marquis. I feel like that should've come up more often, especially in situations where they could've gained an advantage. it's almost like the former marquis onboard instantly adjusted to being starfleet personell. The marquis was the reason Voyager went there in the first place, the catalyst for the entire story.

[@Cheesusful]

@@HappyBeezerStudios yeah they should reboot voyager as a serial

[@christophermiller3031]

I won a Garak trading card out of a penny pusher at Dave and Buster's. When I saw his face lying between those coins I knew I must have it! I spent far too much retrieving this card BUT I endured... Upon winning it... The card classified Garak as a Villain. As... Evil. I felt confused... I figured after viewing ds9 twice that he was a misunderstood hero. When he was evil he was but a tool.... Anywho... Great video! I'm glad to find I wasn't alone in thinking he wasn't a bad guy 😎

[@EvilGenius815]

"Star Trek is a fantasy." First of all, how dare you

[@redshirtveteran5688]

Makes me picture a Cardassian Rhapsody video for Garak.

[@harmonetheanimationaddict4419]

It’s the F U T U R E.

[@andrewxu3602]

(technobabble)

[@JoelRiter]

Not when you can't emotionally differentiate between fiction and reality! I need help.

[@kingneutron1]

TV exec: " You people talk like that ship is really up there! " ST producers: " IT IS!! "

[@darksidemachining]

In season 7 episode 22, Tacking Into the Wind", Garak was pointing a weapon at Rusot's head, and Andrew Robinson delivered his line: "I'm still here Rusot" while giving a slight head tilt with a gleam in his eyes that inferred glee with a touch of crazy. Made me think of his Scorpio character in Dirty Harry. Indelible nuanced acting.

[@EraNex97]

I love Elim Garak and I love that you pointed out the 'good Nazi' troupe. But let's take this a bit further Cardassia is earth if the Nazis had won. Elim Garak is the kind boy, son of Himmler himself with the maid. The boy grew up with a deep love of country and the deep longing for love from a father who would never give it. He would do anything for his father and did. And where did all that love get him? Garick is the child that learned to steal and lie to live, its part of who and what he is. His redemption arc him seeing a world not ran by Nazis and coming to see it as strong despite being told his entire life it was weak, a weakness he himself shared. By the end, he knows kindness is a strength, that compassion is a virtue, and that is his redemption. The only reason he's not held accountable for his crimes by the Federation and Bajor is the service he gave to save both. Before then, they had speculation, not proof. After he's a war hero. And maybe, just maybe he can finally get his wish and be just Plane, Simple, Garak.

[@VioIetShift]

This is spot-on for me. I can't say he is irredemable for his actions. Awful as what he did was, he was indoctrinated from birth into that society. These actions would be irredemable for someone who was not indoctrinated from birth. If he is irredemable, then so is every soldier that serves an evil ruler. I can't make that step. His redemption, as you said, came from seeing that love of country meant more than service to the state. From seeing that kindness was a virtue.

[@kingneutron1]

This has got to be the best introspection I've ever seen on the character. Kudos to Andrew Robinson for his nuanced portrayal :)

[@JDODify]

Also - my dad did actually paint himself into the corner of the garage a few years ago. It was fucking hilarious.

[@Tadpole0110]

And the loyal son stayed by his father's side... Pissing himself laughing. Was it that extra tough paint that takes 24 hours to dry?

[@DeclanMBrennan]

If ever there was a need for "Beam me up Scotty".

[@jsprite123]

Garak and Quark are basically the 2 most interesting characters in DS9. The most memorable lines I remember from DS9 are from them.

[@000Krim]

Fr fr

[@dangerousbeing150]

In Garak we see the darkness that lies within us all. I'm writing this comment before I watch the video FYI, but in Garak we see major narrative points of noir, 70's war films, spy thrillers, political drama, and literal redemption stories. The best thing about Garak is that he didn't seem like a meaningful character as he was meant to be in the same tier as Eddington was when he was first introduced in the second episode. Andrew Robinson, with his screen acting background and a blank canvas, created a character that was meant to be flawed. Garak is slow cooked character development, he has as many personal demons as the writers have ideas, and lucky for us they didn't have many bad ideas on that show. Because they didn't have a narrative through-line for Garak he could straddle the line between Anti-hero and Villain, between Anti-villain and savior. This is why we [the fans] like Cardassians. We can relate to their goals, they are not supra-patriotic because they are some kind of purpose-built slaves to the Cardassian Government, but are supra-patriotic because they fight for status, for a better job, a bigger living space, to impress a future significant other and with Garak case, like a good portion of us, believe in something because that is what [we think] our parents want us to believe. I'm just glad my father wasn't a Nazi, because of how I know myself; if my father was a Nazi I would probably be a Nazi too. And that Scares the living shit out of me. BTW: great video as always.

[@lordmusea]

I am halfway through this video and realize I’ve already learned so much more than I expected about my favorite DS9 character. Great video!

[@RagnarokiaNG]

The three "main" Cardassians by the end of the show all have the same general backstory yet have dealt with it in different ways and either redeemed or condemned themselves as a result. Garak begins using his skills to help and starts to limit what he is willing to do, no longer torturing and willing to commit genocide for the "greater good" anymore and helps save Cardassia. Damar, once pushed by Dukat begins to fight for his people, understanding first hand the costs he inflicted on Bajorans wanting similar freedom and leads a revolution with their help. Dukat tries to redeem himself in the eyes of others, sometimes helping like with Damar. Yet rather than facing his past he refuses to accept blame and condemns others for his own history.

[@paulkerrigan9857]

As a child, I wrote off Star Trek as something too nerdy, but after rediscovering TNG and DS9, it's amazing how well-written it was. I love Garak, Odo, Quark and all the characters. It explores so many simple questions about humanity in such a fascinating and engaging way, using these alien characters. They're all so very entertaining!

[@jasontodd9]

Steve, are you going to follow up with a Damar video sometime soon? Please complete the Cardassian redemption question trifecta.

[@SteveShives]

Yes. Not right away, but maybe in another few months I'll add the Damar topic to the Patreon poll, and if/when it wins, I'll do it. I'm definitely doing a Damar video.

[@jasontodd9]

@@SteveShives Sweet! Just became a patron.

[@MegaZeta]

@@SteveShives Same as Jason here. To me Damar is the apex of what _Deep Space Nine_ managed to achieve through its also-ran ratings status and its perfect storm of talent: a throwaway character with no plan behind him becomes a glorified 2D thug becomes the show's symbol for a person's ability to change.

[@host_theghost507]

Aesome video! Two more decisions the writers made to ease Garak's turn to redemption: 1) When we discover that he was Enabran Tain's son, it becomes easier to see him as a son desperately trying to earn his father's approval than a diehard space Nazi; 2) His affection for Ziyal is genuine (even if it may have begun as the producers' attempt to no-homo Garak), and we share his grief when he wanders DS9 looking for her. Garak will always be one of my favorite DS9 characters-and that's saying a lot-because he is literally a man without a country, who can't embrace one part of himself without betraying another. As hard as it was to see him torture Odo, I recognize it's just one more moment when he was trying to find a home.

[@rudimentaryflavo]

Garak is a very underrated character. DS9 is underrated. My boi Sisko is doing his best being mayor of Wormhole City smack dab in the middle of two different military conflicts. Major props to all the characters for not freaking out and sticking around, cause I know I'd be hopping on the first freighter and getting the hell out of there.

[@henryseldon6077]

Garak was always my favorite character in the series. His complex motivations always masked a deeper reason for his actions. Hats off to the writers. Andrew Robinson was the perfect actor to portray Garak, his performances were perfect.

[@johngingras]

"I'm just pissing on it for a laugh because I'm lazy and those jokes are easy to write." 😂

[@yendub]

Garak was redeemed in my eyes in Season 5 Episode 26. He choose to go with Sisko on the Defiant. He could have gone with Martok or any of the runabouts fleeing to Bajor. But, he knew that he might be of use to the greater good with Sisko so he went. He was a deeply flawed character, and he was loved for all those flaws.

[@siljeborgan4531]

Garak is awsome 😊 I love his relationship with Zial 💛

[@laz7354]

@Watzetzface they are insidious ...just like the federation.

[@JasonChapa]

I could rewatch this video over and over and over.

[@Mallory-Malkovich]

I doubt we will ever see a character as subtle or fascinating as Garak again, because we have Garak, and we will forever be looking for characters like him in everything we watch. It's a lot to live up to.

[@MegaZeta]

You must not be very old if you think there aren't a ton of characters out there as interesting as Garak. Which is a good thing: you have a lot out there to discover and enjoy still.

[@magic8340]

@@MegaZeta well then name a few. 🤔

[@medha6735]

Ma gic I’d say River Song from Doctor Who. I don’t want to spoil it for you, but she’s really good.

[@jamesbell1613]

But he's just plain, simple Garak.

[@craigmanning2439]

This video glosses over(but does not ignore) the events of the episode "In the Pale Moonlight." The turning point in the war and why Star Fleet was eventually able to win the war.

[@pandoradoggle]

Hey, that season one costume really ties the room together, man.

[@noisepuppet]

pandoradoggle Rugs not drugs

[@ungoyone]

That's like, you're opinion, man.

[@shibolinemress8913]

You make some excellent points! One thing I'd add would be his friendship with Ziyal. Complicated as his reasons for it may be, perhaps he also felt that if someone as pure and innocent as she was could have feelings for him, there was hope for him after all. Also, his horribly messed up childhood would have ruined most anyone. His father never acknowledged him as his son, and instead used his longing for love and acceptance to shamelessly manipulate him for his entire life. We see a good bit of that in "The Die Is Cast", too. If you haven't read Andrew Robinson's Garak autobiography "A Stitch In Time", you should. I think you'd enjoy it.

[@Razorgeist]

Garak is one of my favorite Trek characters. Ive said this before but Ive always felt that Garak was always a huge shade of grey. as the series went on he went from a darker shade to a lighter shade. One of my favorite episodes is "Tacking into the wind" at the end where Damar's friend Rusot is threatening to kill Odo and Garak pulls a disruptor on him. Rusot asks Garak "You're still a Cardassian, Garak. You're not going to kill one of your own people for a Bajoran woman." And Garak responds with "How little you understand me." Looking at that episode its like yeah he would have shot Rusot. He seemed to show some clear disdain for Rusot and that mode of thinking that got Cardassia into the situation.

[@ashdoglsu]

I finally watched DS 9 last year and my only regret was not watching it sooner. This is an awesome tv series. I loved all the character arcs in this series. Thx a lot for doing this video. I love watching these DS 9 videos

[@Morn82]

Have you read the DS9 book A stitch in time? It is a great book written by Andrew J Robinson Is fills in some of his life before during and after DS9

[@juliankirby9880]

Morn82 there is a reading from it by Andrew Robinson posted on KZbin. Low quality though

[@nsainification]

great book, was about to bring it up... :)

[@louisest.romain3247]

link to the book on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Stitch-Time-Star-Trek-Space/dp/0671038850/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Garak&qid=1556205521&s=gateway&sr=8-2 Looks like the hard copy is out of print but there is a Kindle version

[@lumensimus]

Before it was collated into a novel, Robinson took parts of his in-character journals on the convention circuit. A full audiobook would be amazing!

[@SweetBearCub]

Read it, loved it. The only way that it would be better is if it was a proper audiobook, read by Andrew Robinson as Garak. Sadly, I've heard that that will never happen due to rights issues.

[@bennyfifeaudio]

My daughter's pet lizard is Garak. I love to come to his terrarium & in my best "Hagrid" say, "You're a Lizard, Garry."

[@parallaxnick637]

I think Garak has essentially the same character arc as Worf. He is an exile from a culture that in theory espouses great honour and devotion but rarely embodies those virtues in practice, so he tries to be the best exemplar of that culture that he can, even though it puts him at odds with that culture.

[@capnduff]

Garak was one of my favorites from DS9. I swear every episode he was heavily involved in was good.

[@Shoddragon]

"In the Pale Moonlight" is such an insanely good episode honestly. I still watch it once every month or two. Of all episodes in the Star Trek franchise, it's just the perfect culmination of all the moral dilemmas faced by major Trek Captains. I know this would be more appropriate commenting for a Sisko video but unlike other Trek series where the actions and decisions were often on a per-episode basis, Sisko's choices in this episode permanently impacted his character both in-universe and in the eyes of the viewers. He crossed the line into allowing AND being okay with cold blooded murder, espionage and sabotage because it was for the greater good. Sisko had been slowly growing into a more assertive, aggressive Captain over the years for sure (he even starts the series off by punching Q in the face) but this is what really pushed him over that point of no return. However it feels like Kirk, Picard and even Janeway (with consistent writing) would refuse to cross the line. Of all the captains we've known, it feels like Sisko is the only one this episode would have worked for because of the weight that rested on his shoulders.

[@truthseekercanada]

One of my favorite characters. I think its pretty clear. He was absolutely redeemed. It was his friendship with Doctor Bashir that gave him the path but he walked down it willingly, even selflessly at times.

[@angryfromun2282]

20:00 - 20:51 garak isn't the hero Starfleet deserve he's the hero they needs

[@MegaZeta]

You do realize that segment of the video is there to show that Garak is still doing what the show sees as the _wrong_ thing well into the show's run, right...?

[@acadiel]

"A Stitch in Time" does an excellent job clarifying all of this. Andrew himself wrote it set after the Dominion war to finish redeeming Garak, and it gives his complete background story.

[@mrScififan2]

Yes, I didn’t like Garak, in that first episode, but he really was very charming. Lovable rogue. Grew on me...

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

You could say he entwined you in his talk and appearence.

[@theworldofron2712]

i so loved this series because of the rich stories, the darkness of it and the deep characters. Garak was a very interesting character and always kept you guessing. Such a great series and my favorite Trek show.

[@thesixthfifthbeatle]

Andrew Robinson and Kate Mulgrew Played brother and sister in the soap opera "Ryan's Hope" back in the 70's.

[@Tonytrekdax]

The Jolly Troll ...wow, no way! Small world

[@peppermorrison]

Stop! Really?? That is a top tier bit of trivia

[@peppermorrison]

Not sarcasm, genuinely, thanks for sharing!

[@micah4460]

He was also in an episode of Mrs. Columbo, which starred Mulgrew.

[@corradocorradi-dellacqua7462]

I enjoyed your video. I always assumed that Garak's key redeptive moment was before DS9, when he betrayed Tain. The fact that the viewers get to know him better can sometimes give the impression of a character development. However, my opinion is that he always was true to himself (except in the last season of course, where he starts having panik attacks).

[@tisFrancesfault]

I always saw Garak as truly neutral, amoral in practicality. he is willing to horrific things for "good" reasons, or a greater good. He's extremely principled in his motivations. Even in the end he is willing to do the worst things to do what he thinks right, even by the end of DS9. Hes not needlessly cruel, he only does acts (acts that can be extremely cruel) to achieve tangible goals. And doing such acts doesn't mean that such acts don't weigh on your conscience. In the same way sisko did what he did in a pale moonlight, or even section 31's actions ; but for garak conscience is a luxury that he sacrificed long ago. He's good at what he does, he enjoys the game, even if he dislikes specifics of what he does, but disliking some of what he does doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to not do what he needs to do.

[@camortie]

I definatly think that one of the best episodes that featured Garak was 'Our Man Bashir'. IMO, you truly got a feel for what he had to do in his past, as well as just how far he grew as a character in this series. Also a great Trek book that features Garak is Enigma Tales, which takes place well after the war and has Garak as the leader of the Cardassian people struggling with the crimes of his past while doing his best to lead his people into a brighter future.

[@ahmede3608]

Does anyone notice Garak never blinks? Very Hannibal Lecter of him....

[@ComradePhoenix]

Does *any* Cardassian blink?

[@chrisschembari2486]

😀 If a Cardassian blinks in the forest where no camera catches it, did it really happen? 😂

[@logiciananimal]

One way to think about it - forgiveness and offering redemption is a function of the victims of an injustice; so *we* cannot forgive Garak; only the Bajorans (and Odo, etc.) can.

[@MrStonespider]

Garak is basically always trying to do what is in the best interests of Cardassia. As he develops in the series what he wants is for Cardassia's interests to be less brutal and more benign. What did the most to redeem him in my mind was the conversation he, Damar and Kira had in the end of the series. He wants Damar to become the new leader of Cardassia and he wants him to be a man worth following, who would take an honest look at the practice of occupation of other worlds and choose a different path.

[@chrissybloulam2585]

That was SUCH a powerful episode!🌟💪 esp the agony Garak had to endure in his withdrawal. Anyone who knows someone who has gone through that experience knows how wrenching, yet in the end, liberating it can be. It was a real dissapointment that he & Bashir really didn't develop into close friend but the writers chose to go with the development of the Bashir/Miles friendship. I think Garak, in his young life, just wanted to please his father, follow in his footsteps & do anything he said. The amazing thing about Garak is: he finds out, much to his own surprise; he really ISN'T a carbon copy of his father's ruthlessness as he really doesn't care about power💪 & ruling over people. Also, there's quite a bit of Mila in him after all. It's something he had to learn the hard way until he comes full circle, back to his old roots which he does in "A Stitch In Time" where many Cardassians turn their backs on the military government & go back to their old religion, history & culture & thankfully, Garak was one of them. I just wish they could have made it so he could have fallen in love & lived a new life.

[@OakCityGamers]

Elim is the only character who changes the most radically. Especially among the Cardassians regular to the show. Nice one Steve.

[@TwoBitWriter]

Garak is probably my favorite character in my favorite DS9 series. Loved the analysis! I agree that regret and remorse is not enough to make one "good" but it is an absolutely essential first step on the road to forgiveness and redemption. Speaking from experience.

[@seawurm]

I thought the best example of "the good Nazi" was from the episode Duet.

[@SteveShives]

I'll probably talk about that episode when I do the Damar video eventually. I agree, and the differences between Marritza in that episode and the other prominent Cardassians in the series are important.

[@AlexRMcColl]

Duet was great. I think the closest parallel in real life to Garak's "good Nazi" storyline would probably be Wernher von Braun, a senior Nazi Scientist who ended up "working for the good guys" during the Cold War against the Soviet Union (who had occupied East Germany and had pressed East Germans into serving the Soviet war machine).

[@Deckard325]

@@AlexRMcColl That's a good point. It is hard to know how to feel about Wernher von Braun. He developed missile technology and was a member of the SS but I am not sure how much or how little control he excerted over the working conditions at some of the weapons assembly plants. I have read or heard many stories that suggested he had no control over the slave labor that was employed and was interested in pursuing the technology for the Nazis only for its ultimate scientific potential. That seems very naive of von Braun and seems just as naive for us to believe. Still a man's choices in such a situation are limited, serve designing the technology or be drafted to serve at the front were his only real options. Quite a few germans with questionable pasts had them over looked during the cold war because NATO or the United States needed their expertise. Some germans and the Wehermacht as a whole had their history white washed because it was useful to the cold war antagonists politically. I am not sure we get an honest look at von Braun from the official sources. I am not sure we can ever get an honest look at Wernher von Braun. I am not sure we can ever neatly seperate the man from his Nazi past. So maybe he is like Garack!

[@alanpennie8013]

@@Deckard325 "I can count down to zero in German and English, And I'm learning Chinese, says Wernher Von Braun."

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

I always see von Braun as a scientist first. For him to build rockets he had to serve the Nazis, but he didn't work for them to help them, but to be able to do what was his thing.

[@Assisi4]

Thank you very much for this dedication to Garak. I've always loved his character, especially that razor sharp sass of his. He is truly a great character with many awesome conflicting levels and awesome lines!

[@jhonbus]

I've been refreshing my subs all day waiting for this.

[@s.anthonyulibarri2488]

Garak is one of my favorite characters in DS9. Thank you for this fascinating view on him.

[@phillipsmith254]

You should read "A Stitch in Time" by Andrew Robinson.

[@RickyLiveOG]

Andrew Robinson deserves every credit for Garak's redemption. He really owned the character and made it what it was.

[@johng859]

I just listened to "A Stitch in Time" written and read by Andrew J Robinson the actor that portrayed Garak on DS9. Amazing storytelling and having the actor read his own novel adds just the right amount of authenticity for any Garak fan.

[@arnehilmann1705]

Steve, you are a gem! Wonderful, bright, balanced and differenciated analysis. Kudos!

[@mosaton]

Garak saved the Alpha Quadrant. He was 100% untrustworthy, reliably untrustworthy. Even if it was only a few little lies told by him to stay in proper untrustworthy form, his plotting was legendary.

[@super_slav91]

They should have made a spin off series called everybody loves Garak.

[@Zaluskowsky]

Shut up and take my money

[@BY-bj6ic]

Alternate shows: Unhappy Days Kira Loves Garak Garak in Charge

[@JoeCool7835]

SFDebris did his own analysis of Garak & had some interesting conclusions himself. Garak is a true Cardassian patriot. He suffers exile on DS9 because he refuses to sell out his homeland. When Cardassia allies itself with the Dominion, he takes up arms to keep the Dominion from destroying Cardassia's identity like it did with other worlds in the Gamma Quadrant. The fact that he was fighting Cardassia to save it was a contradiction that nearly drove him to suicide in the last season, and his speech in the final episode about how his culture was almost annihilated was quite heartfelt.

[@theatheistpaladin]

He went from a dark gray to a slightly lighter gray, that still kinda dark.

[@mikefrederick2696]

Gotta say, your delivery is one of the best (OK, the jokes are lame, but you play them like you think they're even worse - I like that too). You keep accidentally (as if!) allowing your jokey demeanour to slip and show real heart and insight. Appreciate that most of all. Keep up the good work.