Stihl ms460 Vs. ms461 - BenchTalk

Here we are looking at some the differences but for the most part the similarities of the iconic Stihl ms460 and it's successor, the ms461.
I perused through the IPLs for the 046, 460, and 461 and noticed that a lot of same numbers for the respective parts and one or just a few digits being different for a lot of the other parts.
We did touch on a few of both types in this video.
I did not really notice to many "glitches" in my thoughts this time.
~ 16:47 "Nicasil" when they have a chrome bore.
~ 17:46 "Deck Height" is technically compression height.
~18:55 "Tapered" wrist pin is referencing the inside as it increases in thickness toward the
center in a weight savings design.
If you are interested in custom saw modifications, please shoot me an email.
[e-mail]
Thanks for watching.

[@ryanpoloski4322]

I did notice how much faster I was moving through the woods with the 461. Must be that top cover. 😆 that was a great breakdown Jack. Both saws are legendary in my book. Very dependable chainsaws

[@speedandmarine9066]

Always interesting to see a side by side of the pre and post EPA saws of the same model. Surprisingly the 461 is less of a departure in design from the 046/460 than some of the other pre/post saw models. Another great video, thanks for taking the time to do these.

[@joescissorhands141]

Considering your username & response I'll ask you-- Any thoughts on Stihl enlarging their exhaust flanges (088-->880 sees major expansion of divergence in exhaust port IE majorly larger exhaust-flange) and then, on the 661, we see them *reduce* their flange dramatically, not only below that of a 660 but even below a 461 (unsure if this is change-with-time, or intentional reduction of exhaust-flange RELATIVE TO displacement, can't see that being the case but can't rule it out) Would love someone's thoughts on this because it's weird to see them generationally increase, then decrease, their flanges like that (especially w/o any significant changes to port length or muffler designs so far as I can tell)

[@Chase-Chase]

Wonderful video, I’ve watched it a few times and it’s a great comparison. Thanks for taking the time to make this video Jack.

[@jeffroberts4667]

Loved the side by side deep dive into the both saws.

[@outinthewood3578]

Interesting that something "new" has so much of the older model in it ! Good to know a lot of the daily breakable bits can interchange

[@mattdigginnh3511]

I find interesting and enjoyable.. thank you for taking the time to make these videos

[@BruteEngine]

Great video! I just bought a new 461 and love it. I have noticed there are lots of different mufflers for it. I would be interested in seeing all the factory mufflers for the 046/460/461 and which ones perform the best.

[@Fast85FoxGT]

Had a question you may be able to answer. I recently was given my dad's old 460 mag that I remember him and me cutting all sorts of wood with when I was younger. He did "some work" on it at one point (I noticed the muffler being different for one), but he said that he installed a *different* cylinder head on it for higher compression? The only things I have found online for the 460s in terms of modding is the big bore cylinder kit. Are there compatible/better heads for the 460 saw?

[@joescissorhands141]

On chainsaws they refer to them as "top ends/top end kits" which consist of the cylinder & piston (and gudgeon/wrist pin, circlip & small-end bearing of con.rod) and are 'the head' so to speak... If he said higher compression then it's unlikely a "bigger thing", and big-bore is the most-common modification (replacement with 2mm wider bore piston&cylinder sitting on same saw chassis/crankcase) However if he spent $ or machines himself, and the work actually *was* for compression, it's likely 1 of these 2: #1 - 2 part cylinder where the chamber is separable from the remainder of the cylinder, custom-made only so far as modern saws go (AFAIK) or: #2 - an OEM (or big-bore) cylinder that had machining work IE someone machined the base of cylinder & the squish band to "drop the cylinder" usually like half or 3/4ths of a MM, to reduce chamber volume (to bump compression....also if exhaust ceiling isn't ported this will increase trapped volume for the bang which is even more goodness ;) ) I know you posted months ago hope you figure it out if you haven't already!

[@1d1hamby]

I wonder how much different the 462 is?

[@HighMaintenancePS]

Its a brand new design. Lighter. More top end. Less bottom end grunt. 460 461 can pull a bigger chain than 462.

[@joescissorhands141]

Speaking of the air filter box and that pre-filter for HD2's.... You note the hot-air tunnel, however if it's summer you can simply block-off the cylinder-cover's passageway to that "hot air passage baffle" (which also means more flywheel air cooling the cylinder, am surprised they 'round out' the covers' exteriors for aesthetics but don't smooth the insides for flywheel-airflow) Or you can simply cut a couple new passageways in the box....Regardless I screen them with any thin fabric like Frog Skinz / cheesecloth / etc and this basically negates any need for those pre-filter socks, I clean my 660 filter every 5hrs of use maybe it's a regular hd2 no prefilter but the box itself is 100.0% "pre-filtered" and higher-flow, honestly I suspect those are the reasons the Maxi's are so superior IE longevity & sustained-flow but that's achievable w/ HD2's by doing what I describe here, wish I could run mine on a dyno am betting it closes the 2% advantage Maxi's have (and keeps it longer than unfiltered HD2's or regular Maxi's because - to my surprise given the price - Maxi boxes' large openings don't bother with pre-filters, seems so odd on an oil-base filter I mean that is just inviting dust/grit to stick...I guess it's condition dependent but would be more OCD about my pre-filtering if using oiled, instead of paper/flocked, filter elements) Wild seeing they mate-up (filters, airbox cover and even the top baffle), wonder if these are match-up's on a 660/661 platform? Wouldn't mind adding some height to the top for more room for flywheel air & more air in the airbox itself, if it's as easy as adjusting the mating of the box to the carb wall's "lip"! Awesome vid as always, am listening to a lot of them on my earbuds & gotta say you do an amazing job explaining things, *almost* a bit much when just watching it directly but certainly prefer you be thorough (you're probably the best there is for this kinda stuff, do you have a "general" shop or are you just performance-stuffs only?)

[@samuelwild4239]

Might there be an aspect of strengthening of the casings by adding the new steps and creases? - in the same way that car manufacturers avoid too large an area of flat bodywork to create rigidity. That said, the MS461 seems to be a 'facelift' model of the successful 46 series too eak out the very most of this design before they distribute the new MS462 C-M saw which appears to be a completely new design!

[@joescissorhands141]

Well put!! Definitely would make the panels stronger (though the weak points seem to be, 1st & foremost, the clutch covers & gas tanks!) Gotta say I'm surprised seeing the 461 take so many parts from the 460, sadly doesn't seem like my preference (660) shares remotely as much w/ 661's.....Stihl's expansion is interesting, seems they really peaked a couple decades ago (or "them and everyone else", I mean the 881 and 500i are not better HP/LBS than a 660 which is insane IMO!!)

[@codinielsen3467]

Was wondering about the crank bearings and seals, are they the same

[@scotthall6303]

Do they share the same crank bearings and seals? Does anyone know? Thankyou!!

[@scotthall6303]

Hang on, found out, they are both the same bearings and seals!

[@davewyatt1468]

I have a stihl 046 and I’ve always wondered what year model it is. Is there anywhere online where I can input the S/N and find out? Also have you sent any insano saws to Australia? Thanks for your time

[@hotsaws101]

Dave hi. Not that I know of. I have asked at the saw shops as well. They can give you a general "within" a year or two timeline of when a particular serial number saw was sold based on other saws with similar serial numbers. But seems as though not an actual "born on" date. Thanks for watching.

[@AleX.SPP.]

Jack hy ! Can u help me out with the part number of the 461 clutch cover ? Blessings , and take care !

[@hotsaws101]

Alexander hi. Which one? There are 2 versions. Thanks for watching.

[@AleX.SPP.]

hotsaws101 , i think it’s the 11226480403 witch replaced the old 11226480460D serial code, that in referince the Big variant that comes in the full wrap kit, something that in my country does not. I had the large spikes from a 661c, Swap them on the 462, but now got a 461 and it did not match on the chain catcher. Got rid of the 661c and the 462, listening and aknolowged your wast info, and got myself a nyce 461 that now i am thinking to send on your bench.

[@arpadgyulai5534]

Nice video,you are the chainsaw master! Which do you prefer 460 or 461?

[@log4ever419]

Aerodynamic chainsaws. Lol. Who'd have ever thought.

[@LTVoyager]

I just bought an MS461 to replace my old 056AV Super. The Super has been leaking bar oil for years and the oil pump finally failed. I am debating taking it apart before I junk it just to see what is inside and broken. Parts are no long available from Stihl and I haven’t found many aftermarket parts, particularly the worm gear that drives the pump. Does anyone know of a video that shows the disassembly process of an 056 or, better yet, a repair manual for this old model? And anyone know of a good parts source for the 056? The saw still runs great other than a somewhat sketchy idle likely due to a worn carb, so it I could resurrect it and seal the oil tank and fix the pump it would be a great backup saw to the 461.

[@hotsaws101]

TLYoyager hi. Try eBay for parts. Replacing the gear is pretty straightforward if that is indeed the problem. Stopping the leak, well first the source has to be determined. That can be little like chasing a ghost. One thing to verify on a saw that old is that the rubber components in the oiling circuit are not cracked. The interface between the sump tube and pump body is a good place to start. Storing with an empty tank always helps. Thanks for watching. Blessings for this day.

[@chipsofstihl7538]

Very interesting videos keep them coming more of you felling timber would be awesome

[@MegaSpinos]

Hey I have a stihl ms 460 and the chain side of the saw has been getting excessively hot lately. Bearing spins freely on clutch. Saw oils fine just wondering if you have heard about a problem like that?

[@hotsaws101]

chris spinos hi. Could be a multitude of things. When is the last time the clutch drum was off for a good sanitize-ation process? And then there is the drive side crank bearing. They go out on the drive side ~ 6 to 1 as compared the clutch side. Hard to tell "over the phone".... Thanks for watching.

[@prescribedfire1953]

So Jack which do you prefer?

[@jonnysnipes3123]

Does 461 have same bar stud as 460

[@hotsaws101]

As long as the 460 is set up with tapered shouldered stud that fits the later clutch cover. You can use the later version cover on the early version bar studs. Using the older version cover with the newer version studs can yield a cracked cover. This is because of the tapered shoulder sticks out around 3/16" further. The raised shoulder fits in a recess cast into the late version cover Thanks for watching.

[@spiceolife]

​@@hotsaws101I just figured this out yesterday for myself on my 460 that was manufactured in 01. Luckily I didn't run the old cover and new stud combo. I'll be putting in the older style studs.

[@tatepazaski5488]

Great info Jack! Tate

[@dan-dan-da-treeman]

I was going to hit the like, but it's at 461....😂

[@lawlesscreektrials]

The 461 is actually the one on right not left. Notice the air filter housing.

[@Treeesmith]

bryce lunsford he just had the wrong cover on each one

[@hotsaws101]

Gentlemen hello. Around the 7 minute mark I mentioned that the air cleaner covers were transposed. This was for the viewers benefit - to see fitment. I ran a 461 cover on my 460. I think that there is a video, or maybe a few, of that saw on the channel. The 461 saw is on the left. Thanks for watching.

[@paulmorrey733]

Thanks great video

[@log4ever419]

Haha, Stihl on the cutting edge of aerodynamics

[@gregbrown9271]

Interesting

[@harrybarker1408]

nice vid!!!

[@jamessandlin4406]

I am a novice sawyer looking to replace my 041 super. I have been looking at the 461 for quite awhile now. But Lean towards the 460 after watching you explain the saws to me i do not believe there is a huge difference but i do fear i am forced by the market to buy the most modern. I world have kept using the 041 if the stihl service guy could have saved it. Butti He said parts were an issue. I just like the older versions more. Even if they are a bit overweight

[@tjlovesrachel]

James Sandlin I hope you didn’t get rid of your 041.... you can find a lot online and in forums

[@jamessandlin4406]

@@tjlovesrachel nope couldn't part with her my first saw

[@tjlovesrachel]

James Sandlin good.... keep the faith ... you will find parts... what do you think you need?

[@jamessandlin4406]

@@tjlovesrachel i had her rebuilt by stihl dealer she runs hot after a few minutes and shuts down dealer could not answer no matter i got a replacement but i have wanted a bigger saw choice just for grins

[@tjlovesrachel]

James Sandlin that’s not right ... I wonder if they set it way too lean...(for emissions).... I would try turning the “h” needle 1full turn counterclockwise.... and see if that doesn’t help ... if it doesn’t ... I’d look for a coil.... and just for giggles ... what did you get ?

[@lawlesscreektrials]

Sorry, commented b4 the video got going

[@chromesurf9]

Awesome, thanks for that. Answered some questions I had. One being should I upgrade my 460. Seems very much similar. Enough so that I don't think I need to. Thank you.

[@finksies23]

Dang. I might need an insano saw.

[@chriswalmsley4947]

Hey jack I emailed you hoping you received it and to hear from you soon

[@webster710]

The ,460 is on the left side

[@hotsaws101]

Around time stamp 20:21 I picked up the 461 bottomend,,,, which was on the left.... I suggest a review. Thanks for watching.

[@azmanpilikala1424]

super machine

[@captainsledge7554]

One part number off doesnt mean close lol i work for stihl. One number off could be the difference between an 025 and 066 lol just side note. But nice comparison but you missed the fact that the ms461 has chinese parts and has less power in the tree than ms460 and doesnt last as long. One thing we learned at stihl.... the power on paper is not reliably accurate considering the only important part is torque. Despite the Chinese knockoff parts saying their compatible cylinder and pistons... they are not. The exhaust port timing is better on 460, tbe compression height on 460 gives you almost 1 whole point of compression. Intake port volume is larger on 460, and transfer port timing is 4 degrees different making a world of difference in torque in the cut. In 2010, Osama... cough er um i mean... obama passed more restrictions thru epa. The co2 emissions on the 460 was too high. So they had to make changes. They did via carb, port volume and port timing. A 461 is 460 with the balls cut off. The epa ruins everything. I clicked on this video just for fun since its my life lol love saws.

[@hotsaws101]

Kelly Dunn hi. I was comparing a predecessor and successor and their comparable parts. Not an 044 & 090. According to one of the main Stihl® tech guys, the coil and carb are the only possible parts that he is aware of that could have come from China. So either you way up in the food chain or ? I do agree that feel may be different. I actually have independent dyno test run data on the 460 & 461. The 461 bests the 460 in all rpms for both torque & hp. Better exhaust timing is relative to all the factors in the other ports and their respective timing, imho. The venturi is the smallest place of restriction in the intake circuit. They run the same design carb sans the choke shaft as far as I can tell physically. Now with the 461 being a "smogger" it might be a bit different internally, but they are both HD. They have the same intake manifold, filter, baffle, etc., etc. The 461 is a stratification engine designated by the "1" in 461. That design actually stratifies the transfers, where they dump into the cylinder, with exhaust gasses. The factory needed quick fix to address the emissions standards, yes. But they did a much more less expensive way with the design of the cylinder assembly and quite a few shared parts as opposed to the 462 - which was complete redesign form the ground up and very few shared parts. Thanks for watching.

[@jakeharris4465]

460 has more torque end of story the 461 is all top end no balls

[@hotsaws101]

Jake hi. Not in zipped form - they absolutely do not. Torque is not HP. The 460 has a different flow pattern that actually lends itself to topend and/or rpms. The factory porting design is the reason. Thanks for watching.

[@jakeharris4465]

Ok I’m just speaking from experience from using the two different saws,iv used a ported 461 and still found the 460 to not big in the cut as much as 461 but I realise the 461 I used could have a lot of things about it that could change the outcome,Bad port work,worn out motor ect,thanks for your professional opinion on the 461 & 460 take care🙂

[@jakeharris4465]

Bog in the cut…..