Stilgar’s meme moment in Dune 2

[@Whineanddine52]

I think its played for laughs in the beginning but then it hits the audience when we see Stilgar go from a reserved believer to a hysterical fanatic

[@McHobotheBobo]

His role in Messiah is gonna be so sick!

[@Colp2]

Yeah, a couple of the deliveries near the start are clearly humorous in tone (especially the Life of Brian-esque "he denies it, so it's even more certain!" line), but it falls off rather quickly. Going from humor to seriousness to tragedy like that was a great way of creating a powerful contrast in the character and plot.

[@YoitsLoafOfWood]

I agree, after Paul’s speech the movie takes a drastic turn with showing the fanatical seriousness of blind faith. Don’t even think there was any humor at all after that scene.

[@Darkstar_Dayne]

I thought the joke was really funny and almost everybody in the theater was laughing but by the end it was so intense that people sat through the credits @@Colp2

[@aeri_taylors-version]

@@Darkstar_Dayneyeah the moment they were shouting for Paul in the throne room my mind goes oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit

[@depressed_marvin]

“The Mahdi is so humble, he doesn’t even know he is the Mahdi” 😂

[@Fase-ex8mz]

I love that line😂

[@he96765]

"I'm telling you I'm not the Messiah" "He is the Messiah!!!!"

[@WAIVAI]

Moments later he yells in their halls of elders 😂

[@TreyGoose]

I was like bruh🤣🤣🤣🤦🤦

[@whyfii]

Laughed so loud at this part

[@danmurphy257]

"I don't care what you believe. I believe!" was a super powerful line

[@sillesrepa8249]

Yeah, you clearly missed the plot

[@elijahalbiston]

@@sillesrepa8249how so? It can be a good line because you like Stiltgar and know he’s a good friend. But it’s a powerful line because you realize that Stiltgar has now become a blind follower.

[@_philipp__]

​@@elijahalbiston it's a chilling line as it also plays into the inevitable holy war that will leave billions of people slaughtered. Even Paul cannot stop it after a certain point.

[@illMonk-xm2xd]

But is the prior oppression not worth the holy wars? Give me liberty or give me death type of story.

[@itzjustboris7395]

@@sillesrepa8249the line is powerful because of how haunting it is when you think of the implications. You don’t have to agree with the morality of a line for it to be powerful.

[@MrPeanutSays-il7yw]

My fabourite part was him muttering with the fremen "the lisan al gaib would be too humble to admit he is the lisan al gaib"

[@suiro8455]

As is written

[@JMathiasBennett]

I totally laughed out loud at that, because there is a scene in life of Brien that is exactly the same “ He does not say he’s the Messiah… He is so he must be the Messiah” Then Bryan says OK I am the Messiah … “ He is the Messiah!!! 😂😂😂

[@MrPeanutSays-il7yw]

@@JMathiasBennett im convinced you can explain Dune to anyone whos never heard of it simply with "He's not the messiah, hes a very naughty boy!"

[@Noperare]

​@@MrPeanutSays-il7ywthat is Chunni reaction

[@Peterlimnelis]

Sound like Brian the Messiah

[@Sheamu5]

He was the best part of the movie, comic relief, mentor, religious zealot, no one is perfect.

[@kenadams3306]

He was awesome, the ultimate hype man for Paul.

[@RYSHU20]

​@@kenadams3306 fr 😂

[@rtwfreak2012]

He sucks balls in the movie, and I got angry anytime he was onscreen. The movie made fun of him for the sole purpose of making Shani seem more reasonable.

[@RYSHU20]

@rtwfreak2012 no it didn't it showcased the whole point of Dune that Frank intended and Denis made sure to show the warning of blind fanatics following a charismatic leader and how dangerous it is especially with religion Paul is using the Fremen to wage war on Harkonnen the emperor using The Fremen and the only way to do that is to play the role of The Voice from The Outer World

[@rtwfreak2012]

@RYSHU20 how does making the fanatic followers laughing stocks reinforce the message that charismatic leaders are dangerous? In fact, I think Dune II actively undermines its message by 1) making fun of the "fundamentalist" Fremen and therefore implying that only stupid people get seduced by charismatic Leaders. 2) Having the figure of Chani imply that Arrakis can be liberated through Franz Fannon-esque anticolonial struggle and that that would somehow lead to a different result. 3) By skipping the Time jump the movie implies that the liberation of Arrakis could have been achieved without Paul's charismatic leadership/Military training.

[@elchompo5678]

Loved how at the beginning we laugh at him, but when the movie continues and Paul starts to actually fit into the messiah from the prophecy, stilgars fanaticism stops being funny but turns actually scary. It's so good.

[@sercastamere9853]

Within the story Paul is the lisan al-gaib. Within the story, his "fanaticism" should not be scary but a shared feeling of awe and revelation. That's the beauty of this movie, and many others like it where the creator can't help but display beauty and Truth when they actually mean to tear something down.

[@nicholasbrown668]

​@@sercastamere9853you....you realize that fanaticism leads to billions of dead right?

[@mikesmnell414]

@@nicholasbrown668No the Benni Jesserit led to billions of deaths by initiating this from the beginning.

[@Suren0]

​@@sercastamere9853... The fanaticism is supposed to be scary. That's the point. Paul is not Lisan Al Gaib, it's a made up prophecy made up by the Bene Geseerit that has been proliferated by them. Jessica takes their belief and MAKES them believe Paul is the a "Messiah" which leads to nearly 70 Billion dead. You completely missed the books and the movies point.

[@execuwutie_YT]

​@@sercastamere9853you realize he's not actually a messiah and is pretending the prophecy is real in order to manipulate the fremen into helping him right?

[@coolzone71]

Stilgar was my favourite character in this movie

[@illMonk-xm2xd]

Best acted character

[@Joanropo]

Mine too

[@offtankgaming1310]

Same here! Duncan was mine in the first - the supporting characters are fantastic in these movies (and Alia was one of the best parts of ‘84 lol)

[@RememberPOGS]

Agreed

[@Jack_Lazulii]

Why he kinda look like Nick Cage???

[@ashleyelisabeth4]

The crazy part is that even the fans/movie audience felt the draw to follow Paul while also being terrified by his influence when he made his speech in the movie. Now that's amazing directing!

[@joshburns969]

This is exactly how I described it to my dad. When Paul is in the circle finally claiming the title of Lisan Al-Gaib I know it's a terrible thing. Yet I couldn't help this feeling inside to fall into the fanaticism.

[@zosiolinaa]

How was that a terrible thing?

[@joshburns969]

@zosiolinaa 60 Billion people dead, 400 worlds sterilized and 40 religions eradicated. All because of that moment.

[@xSoulhunterDKx]

@@zosiolinaahe manipulates everyone buddy and grabs power.

[@tinytitan8807]

​@@xSoulhunterDKxthe ppl were being hunted and were gonna die, Idk how that's grabbing power when there's no power to grab in the first place, HE is the power its just that he embraced it now

[@muffinman3052]

Ironically, Stilgar is actually right in his belief. Everything that is prophesized eventually does come true, through Paul and his descendants. Paul liberates the Fremen and gives Arrakis back to them, as written. And Leto II eventually does terraform Arrakis, turning it back into a green paradise with flowing rivers. As written. Omitted from the prophecy however are the billions of deaths required to fulfill these promises

[@shakira.rahman8786]

Exxxactly....... That's what i keep telling people. Stilgar wasn't delusional. He wasn't making stuff up about Paul to make him seem like a Messiah............... Paul was the Messiah. Stilgar simply caught it early and his faith was rewarded. He successfully led his people, discovered the Messiah and through him freed Arrakis for the Fremen...... He did it His blind faith and fanaticism is going to happen moving forward, when Paul makes the worst decisions and Stilgar will still beleive in him

[@bisahnchen8727]

But isn't the prophecy fabricated? You know, the big plan of the Bene Gesserit, spanning across millenia?

[@shakira.rahman8786]

@@bisahnchen8727 Yes it is........ But the Fremen don't know that. That is why we say Stilgar is NOT YET a fanatic. He will probably be in the next movie where he will find out the truth about the prophecy and still keep believing

[@andrewdurst8455]

Hey friend maybe don’t put blatant book spoilers without a warning in the comments section of a ten second YT short about stilgar’s funny religious moments in part 2 Some of us have been inspired to read the books bc of the moviegoing experience and to see open book discourse happening in such innocuous spaces without at least a warning is a little disappointing

[@sercastamere9853]

Let's stop calling it "blind" faith. Faith is inherently trusting when there is no direct physical evidence, and even then especially in this age people should be aware that physical/"digital" evidence is not always real. Faith in the form of trust is absolutely essential for humans to function, and Faith in the form of belief in God is also essential. This is quite plainly played out with how people are reacting to this movie, caught up in the experience of it and swept along (unless they let their nihilism in before thr movie ends). Predictably the atheists point to the ending of this fictional parable and say "ah look! But the religious figure comitted jihad! Religion bad" somehow not seeing the irony in using a 20th century sci-fi book as hard evidence against the beauty of Faith.

[@Galactic123]

When Stilgar told Paul "I don't care what you believe. I believe!" - That was when Paul lost a friend and gained a worshiper.

[@THEB0SS497]

“I’m not Lisan Al Gaib” “HE IS LISAN AL GAIB”

[@conq1273]

I was JUST about to write that too

[@LemonSte]

"he's not the messiah, he's very naughty boy!"

[@sketchygetchey8299]

I say that you are Lisan Al Gaib! I should know, I followed a few!

[@UTLASU]

"As it was written!"

[@trev9168]

He plays the part of the tired old man who has lived through nothing but pain and suffering his whole life and finally sees the the legend of the savior of his people coming true. So yes he’s gonna dive head first into those waters of hope

[@TheShapingSickness]

This is what I loved most about this movie. The fanaticism starts as a jokes, but progressively get more serious and more worrisome until it's out of control. Javier played his character incredibly well.

[@Zinemay]

I can fully understand Stilgar's feelings. Imagine spending years of waiting, praying and hoping for messiah to finally appear. Imaging all those times when people laughed on his beliefs and all struggling he went through. And now - he not only witness his Messiah, but guide and help him.

[@alperalyanak9627]

He's a desperate man who finally after long years of struggle gets vindicated in his beliefs

[@shafboy]

That is exactly why religion can't die, cause it always promises green heaven. Which I don't think is a bad think.​@@alperalyanak9627

[@somerandomguyinyt177]

It's also worth mentioning that the use of humor in the film is very well used, they choose moments that are going to work with the plot and also relax us a bit, but keep the serious parts serious. This movie is just a masterpiece

[@apollyon8983]

Paul farts Stilgar: "He si the Messiah!"

[@fyrebirdarts7634]

lisan al gaib!

[@h0rn3d_h1st0r1an]

His farts smell like spice….as it was written!

[@giftshezi198]

@@h0rn3d_h1st0r1an😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@giftshezi198]

@@CMLozanoFineArt😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@giftshezi198]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@void-creature]

That last scene where he leads his warriors into the warships with bright eyed fanaticism was absolutely horrifying to watch, especially knowing what they were about to do.

[@Noxadrol]

Paul gave them a choice they should have accepted his terms he dueled the emperor and the other houses didn't accept his ascension this is Paul's joker moment because the other houses are about to get what they f***ing deserve.

[@void-creature]

@@Noxadrol and the billions his jihad is about to kill? Something he is 100% aware of?

[@terra_the_nightingale135]

Oh, I was having so much fun during that, I thought the scene was incredible and had us hyping it up. Probably because it was cinematically amazing.

[@terra_the_nightingale135]

@@Noxadrol😂 I’m sorry imagining Paul in the Joker outfit

[@Noxadrol]

@@terra_the_nightingale135 exactly hahaha

[@ellon4977]

it was actually so terrifying how his Fremen friends turned into followers in seconds

[@nomadicstrength]

It's weird how I felt nostalgic for one part of the movie when the movie wasn't even over yet. I missed when Paul was just one with the desert and learning.

[@AlbertoMartinez765]

You man like the Apostles and Jesus? You start performing Miracles people will turn into Followers and belivers.

[@odlfmariner470]

@@AlbertoMartinez765 Jesus also fulfilled hundreds of messianic prophecies. It would indeed be reasonable to worship someone like that as the messiah.

[@nahimgood4]

@@nomadicstrength exactly how I felt. The clear mood switch that happened when Paul went from one of them to the LEADER of them and the object of their adoration. I felt myself missing the moments where he was just eating + joking with them in the tent after a successful mission. I bet he was grieving that time too. Probably intentional from Denis

[@Jjw338]

Lead them to Paradise.

[@Arc77crA]

Stilgar is that one reliable friend that always hypes you up

[@Dolorous_Edd]

As long as he doesn't have a bolt stunner

[@bolshevi3187]

I wouldn’t call it ‘blind’ - Paul had to call on Bene gesserit training and implement that with the prophecy to prove he is ‘the one’. Remember, Stilgar valued the water in his flesh much more than his life when they first met.

[@jadencasto]

Agreed - Paul does fulfill centuries old prophesies and then does lead the Fremen to victory over their oppressor. How is that blind faith? A faithful person could carefully and logically come to conclude that Paul is the Lisan Al Gaib.

[@bolshevi3187]

@@jadencasto however, the water of life allows Lady Jessica to exploit the Fremen tradition. She gained the knowledge of their origins and roots of thinking/worship (as well as her own genetic roots). She understands which Fremen will call Paul the Messiah with less resistance - to do that, Paul had to journey South, to the harsh landscape of Arrakis where the faith is at its most fanatic (battling the extremes). But again, Stillgar isn’t blind, he’s unaware of the Bene Gesserit manipulation of the prophecy. What their own agenda is. How Fremen culture is being upstaged to suit their needs and interests

[@Ephideltrance]

The thing is, those prophecies were made up tales of the Bene Geserit that not only Paul could fit the description. Ultimately, its source is not divine and was made totally to exploit those people, and it worked masterfully. Their lives and countless others were the ground which the golden path was built... was it worth it? No one can truly say.

[@Azraelmaximilian]

​@@EphideltranceThe prophecies they give to different peoples on different planets are designed to manipulate them but are also based on actual prophecies the Bene Gesserit have envisioned because in this universe precognition is real and the Bene Gesserit in particular try to hone that skill so they can use it to gain power.

[@rodrigoodonsalcedocisneros9266]

​@@jadencastoIt is STILL blind faith, because people (including PAUL himself) keep explaining Stillgar that the Bene Gesserit manipulated those prophecies yet he refuses to listen. He was already becoming a full blown zealot from the moment Jessica survived the Water of Life.

[@Cavemancavan]

To be fair... it was a pretty big sandworm

[@rogue]

Except it isn’t blind faith is it. He sees with his eyes what Paul can do and compares it back to the prophecy that was written centuries before. If it’s a warning then it warns only of believing in anything at all.

[@rogue]

Also not a great warning in that Stilgar gets exactly what he has been dreaming of. So if there’s a message it seems to be “if you believe fully when presented with reliable evidence, you will profit”. Or should I say… prophet…

[@hopeintruth5119]

Yeah prophecies told and put in place by other people. It may not be blind but it is extremely misdirected on purpose

[@SunTzu176]

Chani was Paul's strongest soldier in the book. She was 100% ultra fanatic over Paul and would do anything for her messiah.

[@savagenature1]

It should also be noted that throughout the film, Stilgar strongly believes that Paul is the Lisan Al Gaib while Paul constantly doubts it. Paul's continued achievements strengthen that belief. And when Paul finally embraces that identity, for Stilgar it's the ultimate confirmation. "Yes! I knew it!" To have one's faith validated in such a definitive way (regardless of whether it was orchestrated or not) would probably make most people That Enthusiastic. For Stilgar, it's not just fanatical belief. It's fanatical belief with validation.

[@peterblades]

Stilgar is the one dude who believed and his beliefs proved true. What an arc for a character.

[@do_it_for_content]

The one main character you mean. There are hundreds of thousands of Fremen that believe.

[@AmogusCumslum]

Beliefs proved true? By the end of it all stilgar is so disgusted by what he has done in Paul’s name that he contemplates killing Paul’s children. And he then regrets when he spares them.

[@Gzilla313]

I couldn’t help but think of Monty Python’s Life of Brian throughout Dune 2. Follow the gourd!

[@MattWeser]

No! Follow the sandal!

[@ashleyelisabeth4]

"Only the true Messiah would deny his divinity" 😂

[@elffromcolorado1376]

Indeed 😂 Only the true massiah denies his divinity eh

[@zdenekdolezal9646]

@@elffromcolorado1376 Okey I am the messiah. He is. Now F*** off !!!

[@vhufeosqap]

“He’s not the messiah., He’s a very naughty boy”

[@heyzeus6149]

In the book she was just as supportive as he was

[@Zagarth12]

Not really blind. Bro hit every prophecy and could foretell the future

[@thaturi]

However, it is a future that was laid and manufactured by the bene geserit. Without Lady Jessica's meddling, this prophecy will never come into fruition.

[@officialtbhoops]

@@thaturi so the issue isn’t blind faith. It’s being unaware of the origins of the prophecy.

[@karimsalah6270]

@@thaturi Can you explain more without spoiling what's out of the current 2 movies? Not every sign for Paul was due to Jessica's meddling, like him being able to wear the Still suits perfectly and being able to see strange peoples' pasts. The one major sign where Chani drops her tears mixed with water of life into Paul's mouth and he suddenly wakes up after being almost dead, has little meddling from Jessica, she was only a "Catalyst", she only made the situation happen. I know the writer doesn't actually show if Paul is really a true or a false prophet, but according to what we see, do you really blame the Freman or even the those who watch the movie to believe it is true?

[@gaiusx287]

@@officialtbhoopsbut it’s not a prophecy per say - it’s a plan that was set into motion centuries in advance

[@EYEZAYZEL]

​@@gaiusx287 the foretelling or prediction of what is to come. something that is declared by a prophet, especially a divinely inspired prediction, instruction, or exhortation. a divinely inspired utterance or revelation: oracular prophecies. Lol youre using an example of what prophecy is to deny/ dictate what prophecy is. It's like breaking the fourth wall to insist you can't break the fourth wall. Comedy gold

[@reedbern]

Herbert’s message is so brilliant. It isn’t just a warning about fanaticism, but also a warning about trying to control powerful forces we can never hope to understand like religion. The entire faith of the Fremen is product of manipulation. It’s a lie designed to control them….and yet an actual messiah does show up.

[@ReinhardtX57]

wait, but till now, stilgar isn't do blind faith... the blind faith will be if paul actually fail to free them and fail to sit at the throne, yet stilgar is still believing him. that would be blind faith. but right now, all what stilgar believe about paul is coming true, so it's not a blind faith

[@Subxenox15]

K but in Dune Paul is LITERALLY godlike, and in the book Chani recognizes that and supports him throughout the entire process, including when he decides to marry Irulan.

[@ghain9774]

Frank Herbert didn't want to warn anything with Stilgar and Chani because their differences are exclusive to the movies. In the book Stilgar isn't an outright fanatic and Chani isn't an skeptical that hates Paul's actions.

[@gregorygreenwood-nimmo4954]

While I would argue that Stilgar does begin to shade, not so much into the outright fanaticism of the movie, but into being more of a follower than a friend and equal to Paul (something that Paul himself laments and thinks diminishes Stilgar as a man and a leader) in the books, overall I think you are right. The characterisation of Stilgar, Chani, Jessica and Alia in the movies all deviate very markedly from the way they are depicted in the books, so much so that I suspect that a faithful adaptation of Dune Messiah may not be possible given the status quo we are left with at the end of Dune Part 2.

[@LemonSte]

are you incapable of media literacy? no one said frank herbert wrote these characters to show this. he wrote this STORY to warn about religious fanaticism and how imperialism and oppression create perfect victims for brainwashing. The films do not have internal monologues so the only way they can show it effectively is to have people clearly opposing one another.

[@Kastoruz]

I just want to say: I'm feel so happy knowing there are so many people that share love for this film. It was truly amazing, the story, and down to the last frame.

[@entertainingandfun2719]

Everyyyone missed this about dune. They also missed that Paul is not completely innocent.

[@alexm6715]

I don’t think anyone missed that tbh

[@somethingyouhave]

Ain’t nobody missing it in the movie that’s for sure. You’ve got no reason to think Paul is susceptible to abuse of power, as he’s actively avoiding it throughout the film, while there are entire characters dedicated to beating you over the head with this warning. Movie really suffers from telling and not showing.

[@alexm6715]

@@somethingyouhave How does the movie not show it? You literally see the transformation once Paul starts to use the people’s religion to put himself in power and take the throne of the emperor. Chani kept warning him that she likes him as a warrior who is equal to her and the rest of the fremen and how she’s afraid he will become something more because of the way the people treat him. Also, Dune Messiah is more-so about Paul’s fall and the consequences of his actions in the first book, so once part 3 is adapted (which is adapting the plot line of Messiah), then we’ll see more of the effects of Paul’s decisions.

[@jebosamvasjako]

You are not the guy bud, everyone notices this, they just don't care as much as you.

[@thomascromwell6840]

​@@somethingyouhaveYou don't understand what show and tell is. Tell is one character giving an exposition. Show is giving the audience information while progressing the plot through the dialogue and interactions between characters.

[@jocap3837]

"In that instant, Paul saw how Stilgar had been transformed from the Fremen naib to a creature of the Lisan-al-Gaib, a receptacle for awe and obedience"

[@ericpowell4350]

They are two sides of the extremist coin. Chani's skeptism is just as bad because she lacks faith entirely.

[@ExtremeMadnessX]

Lack of faith is bad because?

[@trueblue1615]

⁠faith is bad because?

[@FNA27601]

​@ExtremeMadnessX in brutal desert climates faith tends to keep you going because without it then you might as well die rather than suffer. Thats how the bedouins of arabia lived for so long, through faith, unspokennrules, and overall rigid lifestyles.

[@Catpanl]

Stillguard performance was top notch. Really loved the character. I would even say he is my favorite.

[@333dae]

at first it’s funny but then it gets scary when you realize that he’s dead serious the whole time

[@YouGioxD]

It's not blind faith. The fremen first hand witnessed remarkable events right in front of their eyes. How can they deny what they see with their own eyes?

[@adamwarlock5286]

I think Xavier Bardem's portrayal of Stilgar was near perfect , almost a homage to Tony Quinns Auda abu Tayi in *Lawrence of Arabia ". I also realised how much the character of Morpheus owed to Frank Herberts writing

[@CheebySweemy]

Yeah except that Frank Herbert didn’t want that distinction at all. In the books Chani loves Paul and doesn’t disrespect her people by condescending their beliefs.

[@kingofcards9]

He's not the lisan al gaib, he's a very naughty boy.

[@LemonSte]

okay you win hahaha

[@Dolorous_Edd]

He's a FRIENDO

[@JamesSmith-ih2cx]

It is fair to be skeptical of faith and easy to say Stilgar needs to dial it back, but I think it is also fair to say that Chani(movie version) should have more faith. Her constant skepticism and lack of faith is just as dangerous as Stilgar's over the top belief.

[@ShahAznable]

He's not having blind faith, he's fully aware that Jessica is bene gesserit He's already know that Paul can foreseen the future. He just noticed the signs that Paul show with the appearance of Lisan al-ghaib. It implied he knew legends is fabricated by bene gesserite but he still follow the prophecy out of necessity when he brings it up with the elders.

[@quickshotsatisfaction7927]

THANK YOU❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️

[@kakadiyadipesh7077]

Stilgar's fanaticism in "Dune" evolves from rigid adherence to Fremen traditions into a deeper loyalty to Paul Atreides, influenced by Paul's leadership and visions. His devotion shifts from blind faith in the old ways to a strategic alliance that supports Paul's journey to power.

[@FEDERALDREAMS]

Blind faith in this case meaning being 100% correct.

[@benjaminz2523]

Exactly. He was right.

[@L154N4LG4IB]

@@benjaminz2523no he wasn’t. Paul never becomes the God Emperor. His son was Lisan Al Gaib.

[@Mcbignuts]

Big difference lol , leto would simply inherit what Paul created ​@@L154N4LG4IB

[@officialtbhoops]

Stilgar never had “blind faith.” He saw the prophecy his people devoutly believed in unfolding before his eyes. The fault lies with his people being raised on a false prophecy without realizing it for centuries. Blind faith would be believing in Paul as the Messiah regardless of his alignment with the prophecy.

[@Roach_Dogg_JR]

He is correct because it is a self fulfilling prophecy, a prophecy made BY the bene gesserit to match their powers.

[@TtotheCizzel]

In the book Channi is far more fanatical. Shame how they changed her so much, Paul already has so many enemies and they took his biggest supporter away.

[@artxiom]

I think ultimately Frank Herbert's criticism falls short: because what was the alternative? The Fremen get destroyed by the Harkonnen and humanity dies in agony because they didn't follow the Kwisatz Haderach on the Golden Path? I know it was not what Frank Herbert was intending but he made actually a good point FOR following a Messiah 😅

[@JudeT1775]

Well said

[@JamesDeanStudiesLanguage]

Exactly. I am actually surprised to see how many people get this. How are you going to try to warn against blind faith but then depict how that “blind faith” is completely justified by irrefutable, verifiable evidence and ultimately leads to the most good outcome, I.E… spoilers… The saving of the entire human race, as opposed to complete eradication of the human race. If anything, he proved the value of faith over blind sceptism. Chani becomes the example of stubborn unreasonableness in the face of undeniable truth. Paul is the messiah, he fulfills the prophesies. She even chooses to participate in them despite not wanting to, and she still doesn’t believe he is the prophet. Paul is not a false prophet. He is an engineered prophet, but a true prophet non the less. And who cares if the prophesy was due to planning? It still relied on choice, and it came true. Paul and his line leads to the liberation of the Fremen, the transforming of their world, and the saving of humanity. Frank failed spectacularly if he was trying to warn against faith. If anything, it was a warning against how ridiculous and counterproductive skepticism for skepticism’s sake is. I am glad it was portrayed by, basically, two young women who think they know everything despite barely being adults. Perfect allegory for this generation.

[@HarrDarr]

@@JamesDeanStudiesLanguage you don't really understand Paul if that's your conclusion, as he's an even worse cynic than Chani and the only reason he doesn't tear down the entire golden path and the rotting house that is his destiny is due to the circumstances that play out in Messiah & his sister.

[@JamesDeanStudiesLanguage]

@@HarrDarr I think this speaks to my point even more than you think. Paul already is the skeptic the audience needs. Paul himself gives us all the information we need to get the theme of "beware of false prophets" and "the dangers of blind faith." Chani's change is redundant. It adds nothing to the story that Pual himself doesn't already add. When Paul shouts "That's not hope!" That delivery summarized the theme better and more effectively than anything Chani did or said. Basically, Chani's change was unnecessary and just a product of trying to force modern day idealogy into classic stories, like Hollywood has been doing the past 10 years. Chani was completely forgettable, because her change added nothing to the story. When I think about the movie, when I see it quoted or descibed, the parts we like have nothing to do with Chani. She is there to be a strong, indepedant woman to make the story more palitable for middleclass, suburban liberals and the pink-hair brigade. I think Avatar 2 and Top Gun Maverick provided that wokeness isn't needed, even if Hollywood refuses to stop trying to shove the MESSAGE down our throats.

[@HarrDarr]

@@JamesDeanStudiesLanguage well yeah, they kinda butchered anything that was deeper than a puddle, but that could also be because Dune isn't exactly something that should have ever been put to film

[@CLSGL]

Something tells me he’s not necessarily a fanatical religious zealot as much as he is a guy who understands that his people need a powerful leader with resources and grit to pull them out of their situation. I dunno though I haven’t read the books

[@jadencasto]

I think you could certainly call Stilgar fanatical, but I don’t think his faith was blind. Paul does fulfill centuries old prophesies and then does lead the Fremen to victory over their oppressor. How is that blind faith? A faithful person could carefully and logically come to conclude that Paul is the Lisan Al Gaib.

[@benjaminz2523]

Agreed. Listening to basic simpleton people try to interpret the story to suit their dumbed down sensibilities is obnoxious

[@hopeintruth5119]

It is blind faith as it was all made up by the so-called witches. They literally made everything up and put things in place so he could fulfill those prophecies. They were manipulated, and they never really critically think and believe everything in face value.

[@officialtbhoops]

Exactly. It’s far from blind faith. It’s a lifetime of believing in a false prophecy and it’s hardly his fault.

[@gaiusx287]

@@benjaminz2523yikes so condescending and yet so wrong. Paul didn’t fulfill old prophecies. He carried out plans that were set into motion centuries ago that were meant to control people. They basically spell it out in this movie that the bene gesserit don’t hope or pray - they plan

[@she_who_dares9713]

His acting was amazing!!

[@LordBloodraven]

In the books, she was a believer. I liked that they made her skeptical of Paul being their messiah in the film.

[@lofidigitalmonk]

He believed in the kid. May we have more elders like him in real life.

[@renrose7508]

Some of the most horrific acts imaginable have been committed under the guise of religious fanaticism

[@Grunttamer]

That’s the main message of the series essentially. Not necessarily limited to religion but any fanatical following is dangerous

[@TheNTomTom]

And some of the worst crimes in history were committed under the heel of eradicating Faiths, like Stalin and Mao

[@clarknapier7547]

@@TheNTomTomBut not as much as religious institutions. Religion has no place in the advancement of a society.

[@AbdullahMikalRodriguez]

I fund it funny that a cynical and pessimistic attitude towards religion is seen as cool and edgy in the west right now... you are a sheep too, just like those around you. You just drank a different flavor of cool aid. Our world was built on religion, and faith is an inescapable aspect of the human experience... but that's probably beyond you all's pay grade.

[@thewatcher611]

@@clarknapier7547 Except that Christianity created the very environment in which science, reason, philosophy, and knowledge has progressed. Christianity is the very reason society will progress. You don't need to believe it. You can keep yourself from learning history. Your denial of the Lord will be what prevents you from having a part in that "advancement of a society", as you say. Read Sir Isaac Newton's "The Principia", and re-visit your idea here.

[@doubleohdutch2108]

Bardem should receive an Oscar nomination for best supporting character for his role.

[@TheKingoftheAWESOME]

Chani actually bugged me a lot because she is supposed to be Paul’s biggest believer, Stilgar is the Chani we deserve

[@BrooklynAaliyah]

I found it really interesting actually because you can tell as time went on that chani did start to believe in paul, but that was the thing, she believed in PAUL. Not the paul of some prophecy she thought was fake but in paul, the man, her friend and her love. Just in paul exactly as he was, she saw him for him, not as some godly savior but as just another human being. It's quite sad actually because paul needed so badly to treated like he was human, to have one person on his side that just cared about him for him. He needed real connection so bad and instead finds himself surrounded by people he will never be able to truly touch again, chani was that for him. She was someone who always treated him as his own person

[@WhiteMalay]

My Wife and I could not stop laughing everytime he called Paul the messiah because it reminded us of Life of Brian by Monty Python

[@ANGELOFDARKification]

It is funny how quick he said it after Paul won the fight, even though he was stabbed and bleeding

[@OhBoysPaintball]

Paul farts: Stilgar: “As written…”

[@joshaustin5863]

Best part about the books: it’s not really blind faith and the actions the characters take make sense

[@AnarexicSumo]

It is really about blind faith. Nothing Paul does is possible without the blind faith of the Fremen keeping him alive.

[@Walkingfenix]

I think the point is even more clear in the books. Especially when they get to the second one

[@TheKayShawn]

@@AnarexicSumo or maybe Paul is actually fulfilling all the prophecies that they all grew up with? It’s not blind if it’s true, not that hard to understand tbh.

[@joshaustin5863]

@@AnarexicSumo for it to be blind faith then Paul would have to go against the prophecies in some way which he never does, not saying what he does is good in any way but with the goal he set out to achieve was accomplished it may have not been in his lifetime but the Shai Hulud would not proceed to make Leto the 2nd the god emperor if it was not ordained to happen to fulfill Paul’s vision

[@joshaustin5863]

@@Walkingfenix not really the most important argument against the idea that Paul isn’t the chosen one is shown throughout book three when he is actively trying to get people to stop worshipping Alia on Paul’s behalf but it’s then shown that Leto the 2nd is chosen by shai hulud to take Paul’s place on the golden path and imo that wouldn’t happen if it was just fake mysticism

[@GeekImperium]

In the book Chani actually believed in the prophet, Denis just changed this line of the story to make a “solo” female character, which wouldn’t be bad but somehow for me it was annoying that she can’t accept the fact that OTHERS want to believe in Paul.

[@ryan9912]

curiously, everyone overlooks that Paul is in fact the lisan al gaib and he fulfills the prophecy.

[@terra_the_nightingale135]

Even when the prophecy is made up by the Bene Gesserit, Paul’s still doing miraculous things. Lot of hard work on his part, but the dude is seeing into the future.

[@enriquegarcia2790]

He is not. Anyone who uses spice can see the future. He's just sensitive. And ultimately fails successfully. And get into books 5 and 6 it gets disgusting weird. All religion is a crutch for weak people to hold themselves artificially accountable.

[@JuliusSpin]

It is the sighs and silent inner cries that he acts out so pursuasive, that hit me more than anything about the severity of the situation. In the end Chani cries over her lost partner. Stillgar, if you look carefully right before he shouts his assist, cries for his people and his broken faith.

[@coolzone71]

Interesting perspective but he was right and it had no consequences really, although all i know is the first two movies so paul could be leading them to their demise

[@facundosilva6087]

What the guy in the reel says is More evident in the First book than in the movies, however the second book explores the consequences of extreme fanatism. Wich could be explored in a third movie

[@michajerchel7350]

@@facundosilva6087 Absolutely not. The film is completely clear about it's true meaning, whereas book basically ends on an unintentional happy end

[@darthrighty]

Paul's vision in the tent in part 1 is the bad consequences

[@coolzone71]

@@michajerchel7350 yeah but i kinda dont mind paul being the emperor i just dont trust the chick cuz she was part of the last regime, i think his character will still be somewhat balanced going forward but thats just an assumption

[@austinkennedy7312]

He leads them to a war that will be the demise of billions that’s said in the movie hahaha.

[@CannonBallBill]

The movie was shot and Herbert was t trying to warn of blind faith in stilgar. This aspect was made up by the shot director. He ruined channis character

[@shakira.rahman8786]

This conclusion is only possible through retrospection after reading the books. Stilgar isn't a fanatic or delusional, not in the movies; not yet. He wasn't making stuff up about Paul to make him seem like a Messiah............... Paul WAS the MESSIAH. Stilgar simply caught it early and his faith was eventually rewarded. He successfully led his people, discovered the Messiah and through him freed Arrakis for the Fremen...............He did it!!! His blind faith and fanaticism will only emerge moving forward, when Paul will start manipulating the Fremen for his agenda (hopefully in the third movie) and Stilgar will still follow him blindly.

[@thanhtringuyen8788]

"Father, you have underestimated the power of faith"

[@Czeckie]

i will never forget* villeneuve for making stilgar a comic relief. *forgive, brainfart

[@jazminmartinez4015]

Don't you mean forgive? And yes, I hated they had to make those Marvek type jokes... It was awful

[@Freemanorc]

Kinda wish I had blind faith like Stilgar

[@cesnaanida9235]

Lisan Al Gaib!!!

[@brainloading5543]

People need to realize that Paul, while being the protagonist, is not the hero of this story.

[@born2destroyu]

Paul is not a hero nor a savior. He is a manipulator and ends up as galactic Hitler. Dune is a cautinary tale not a hero's journey

[@fugustogamer7512]

I don't think Hitler is a good comparison. Paul didn't commit a genocide out of hate. Paul did what he did out of survival, vengeance and to save the Fremen being massacred themselves. If the great houses acknowledged his rule then there would have been no war. That being said I'm not justifying it, he is more like a Genghis Khan, or Caesar, etc.

[@cheebai2583]

​@@fugustogamer7512I agree with ya lad.. Paul had to do it to save the Fremen from the Harkonnens.. Unite the Fremen and live, or literally get massacred..

[@elijahalbiston]

I also disagree on the Hitler example. Caesar, Genghis Khan, Cleopatra, there are other historical figures who began doing what they thought was right for their people only to make mistakes/kill many people for their cause. It feels like Paul genuinely has no choice because events forced him to move South, but it's still chilling because we then see that he becomes all too willing to commit to this Holy War. As with most things, what began as a good intention does not remain so.

[@benjaminz2523]

Hitler is most definitely an inaccurate comparison.

[@modernkhajiit]

I kinda feel lose of Chani's also fanativ character from the books. She didn't mind wiping out billions of people for the sake of her nation. She wasn't a cute little bird like in the movie.

[@arturolopezdenava]

Not blind faith but faith in itself. It showed how having faith skews the human spirit into madness…

[@MrStick287]

Not having any faith is also the path to madness. It's having balance

[@leestewart72]

But Paul isn't a fraud. He IS the Kwisatz Haderach.

[@tedcruz212]

Stilgar is based, chani is cringe for not following the LISAN AL GAIBE

[@User-zl9pj]

His character Gad me dying lol great job

[@Motion4000]

Stilgar is likable and Chani is just annoying

[@bambina5604]

She's right and he's blind.

[@eriskhaos6054]

😂 true

[@cheebai2583]

As Paul said: "Chani will eventually come to understand, I have seen it".. Probably in the end Chani will understand that Paul had to follow the Golden Path set out for him.

[@WOTArtyNoobs]

It would be a crying shame if Bardem does not get another supporting actor Oscar. He even had Rebecca Ferguson laughing during the takes when he mumbled all sorts of things including "Christmas trees" whilst saying the Fremen language. It was dubbed later.

[@icomarv17]

A message to Zionists

[@Orbowitz]

It's a message to everyone. The books were written in the 60s

[@sillesrepa8249]

*everyone

[@lalaland4432]

A message to Islam rather

[@icomarv17]

@@lalaland4432 *Zionism

[@Orbowitz]

@icomarv17 Muslims have been just as imperialist as jews, Europeans, Asians, etc. Lest we forget the massive Islamic caliphates that invaded Europe and Africa.

[@nkyryry]

Paul is literally their Christ. The Fremen have been waiting & praying for him for thousands of years. How is he not supposed to be blind in his faith?…..

[@santiagomoreno3669]

I dont think Stilgar’s fanaticism is played for laughs, it is a tragedy; he goes from a leader , to Paul’s friend and then to a complete fanatic; that’s why Paul’s phrase of “These people used to be my friends” hit so specially hard

[@wallball5]

The mistake is thinking the wider audience will catch on to these deeper meanings and look further past the meme

[@quixoticfiend9274]

Fictional desert cult based on the actual desert cult.

[@redirectiontime]

I really love this part, cause theres a moment in the book where Paul reflects on Stilgar going from a strong leader to a fanatic

[@canadianmedic4341]

Dangerous? He DID see the future. The golden path was carved by his son. Is it dangerous fanaticism if it leads to the only path to survival?

[@samwrai]

Still, Paul saved the Freman nonetheless. If was for Chandi's group to fight, they would achieved nothing.

[@arcanum3882]

This dynamic is exactly what wasn’t in the first book. Paul was the real thing, a completion of a prophecy that the witches discovered, not created. Every Fremen supported him, especially Chani.

[@steventhomas4499]

IDK, if this was supposed to warn against fanaticism, they probably shouldn't have made a super complicated prophecy that keeps coming true word for word. I'm a lifelong atheist/agnostic and I would start to go "okay, yeah, maybe this is Jesus"

[@NightBeWheat]

Smoothest loop i have seen in a while.

[@seanslaysean7097]

Honestly, I love it; he plays a “true believer” in the most authentically chilling way possible. He made me like this character trope and enjoy religion in movies again

[@badwolf4849]

In the book Chini accepted Paul and helped him find the way She would kill people coming to challenge him The movie missed the mark I that relationship

[@sios9065]

The biggest glazer of the century 😭💀

[@kyleweaver7900]

Anton Chigurh sure has came a long way from being a hitman

[@trueblue1615]

Except it wasn’t blind faith. Everything happened the way the prophecy was foretold. He is the Lisan-al Gaib.

[@fabriziobarone5933]

Everybody deserve a hypeman like Stilgar

[@gm6856]

Stilgars faith kept getting stronger because of the missionaria protectiva. The prophecy was being fulfilled but not for the Lisan al gaib but the Kwisatz Haderach. I don’t blame Stilgar one bit because everything he learned growing up ended up being true. Except the promise at the end. It’s tragic for the fremen

[@bennycostello2472]

Book chani is as fanatic as stilgar idk why they tried to change her lol

[@yodoleheehoo90]

I LOVED the part where he immediately says "Lisan Al Gaib" after Paul succeeds in riding the sandworm, like not even a yell of excitement or "amazing work as the prophecy says!" No, he says that instead😂