Stirling engine alpha

[@subirbhaduri]

i think this is the only stirling engine video that says the real stuff, the wattage, the efficiency, the heat input, etc...all others are just toys, but this one is a real scientific engine made at home...congratulations and best wishes!

[@BasementEngineer]

Well, if you look at mine, it runs a portable transistor radio... Doing something useful.

[@arquitectronico]

Congratulations! I`ve never imagined that could run with air pressure!!! You give and idea about how to obtain extra power! Congratulations again!

[@mjdevink]

Top of the class for stirling engine builders - well done! I hope your success motivates you to achieving even better results, just as your success motivates us all with an interest in stirling engines! Thanks for sharing your work.

[@rolluk4523]

well guys , you just found the way- how to using 3kw heater and stirling engine generate 120 wats.Great job:)

[@jordanrodrigues8265]

Beautiful. That's a Stirling *engine*, not a Stirling desk toy.

[@Игорьд-б1и]

Классный двигатель. Нужно утеплить защитный кожух над тенами, там до 2 Квт потери, и кпд получится до 20 проц.

[@ForPropertyInvestors]

You don't know how close to Genius you are! Most best insight to generating electricity from sterling engine from a fire source I have seen everywhere on KZbin. I would buy a motor off you when you perfect your works. I want one I can somehow sit close to a burning heat source such as a pot belly stove, wood fire or a common 44 gallon drum with wood burning in it as a rocket burner as they make lots of heat. Than you so much for posting and please time the time to post as much as you can.

[@barumman]

A really good project and very informative, thanks for sharing. :)

[@drevilatwork]

This is nice. If someone could build and sale that for 500$ he's got my money. It comes in handy in the northern countries where most of the time you need to heat the house with wood, gas, oil whatever. While heating the house you can also generate 200watts that's enough for most things like LED lighting and a laptop or lcd tv. And if u have a battery bank and a imverter , you can charge the bat bank with the 200w from the stirling and use inverter whenever you need 2000watts for microwave, etc

[@ratishpatil4582]

so you can use ig tube steam boiler and use a steam turbine...that wud be more silent and powerful too

[@dragoncas]

@jason crigger Did you even read what he wrote? NORTHERN COUNTRIES he's probably from Norway or Holland. Not everyone here are native english spokeman. So if you are, stop criticizing those who dont.

[@pit_viper2013]

Мужики красавцы, если бы вибрации не было на сколько ещё добавилось бы!

[@sasafed1970]

Hi Job! Like most of stirling modelists I have no complete drawings because I did not need it. Parts was made from some scrap and some old laser cuttings parts from old projects. Main actual parameters you can see at video beginning. Design is full dependent of available materials, tools and skills.

[@sasafed1970]

Of course I know :) First - heat exchange decreases because of lack of time (short cycle) Second - fluid flow loses increase (as square) because of high speed At 1200 rpm First = Second and the power = 0. Regards.

[@навигатор54]

Как Ваши поиски?тема живая?

[@sasafed1970]

@@навигатор54 Очень сложный вопрос. Тема оказалась гораздо сложнее, чем я изначально рассчитывал. И требует колоссальных вложений, причем не столько даже денежных, сколько по времени. С учетом того, что у меня семья, пока отложил на некоторое время, так как нет возможности одновременно двигать и станки по шелкухе и стирлинги, но не отказался, так как вижу что шанс есть, просто отложил пока до лучших времен.

[@VasyaPupkin999]

​​​​@@sasafed1970в рф уже есть фирма которая готовит серийное производство готовых генераторов, на 200ватт делают штучно пока...

[@ROCKNTV1]

Very good build sir, I too am considering weldments for major componants as making casting during RnD is way too expensive. I am also guessing that you are testing 3kw in = power out purely as baseline, becuase placing you engine in this config close enough to a 3kw source is going to melt it over time. To the people that say >>> 3kw in > 75w out is bad efficiency,,, I say anything is better than nothing if the source heat was just going up the stack!!! Thanks for the vid

[@andreashubner5802]

Input 3 KW Output by 700 rpm = 200 watt = ca 8-9% Energie . Aber Super Video Danke

[@ViktorSolenoid]

very nice engine! a well crafted machine. bravo

[@sasafed1970]

Спасибо! Пока частное творчество, но если сумею выйти на расчетный уровень мощности то может и промышленном производстве задумаюсь.

[@АлександрАлександрович-о3б]

Здравствуйте, ппродаете двигатель?

[@merxan2417]

@Леонид Максимов откуда травма, если не секоет?

[@rc-1162]

Вот что я искал !!

[@wwlb4970]

@@merxan2417 Травма головы в детстве, в результате которой люди часто увлекаются вечными двигателями, бесплатной энергией и подобной бредятиной.

[@ДмитрийКольцов-и1ж]

Если честно схема механики и регенерации газа крайне не эффективная, но молодцы хоть что такое построили, а у меня в планах уже третий прототип в расчетах и чертежах о до металла не дошло еще.

[@brianbaird6528]

If you are using a permanent magnet alternator, you are as efficient as possible, since you won't waste any power running the field. A hover-board wheel or two should be about right for 300 watts. They operate at a fairly low RPM. You must have a 3-phase rectifier for each wheel, to get DC power out. A Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) solar charge controller may be able to find the perfect load to get the most wattage out of it. If you want a bigger generator, consider using one of those clothes washing machine motors that's built like a hover-board wheel, but a lot bigger. It could probably be direct-drive from the crankshaft of this engine, and save the friction of the belt.

[@Fan-oi1kt]

Хорошая работа ! ; нержавейка , грамотно расположили внешний источник тепла -сверху а не снизу , как в старых .., компактный , вообще класс ! Мне показалось или нет - кольцо вытнснителя плотновато больше чем надо ..? Лайк!подписка!☺

[@DAN-lk9ic]

Как я понял если источник тепла сверху, то это лучше чем снизу ? Если да то почему ?

[@HHOGAS]

Have you tried using HHO Gas fire to heat the element to run the Stirling engine?

[@sasafed1970]

I tried only natural gas. You can see it at my other videos.

[@FadeToEvil]

It is better to use acetylene. High temp and simple to get.

[@flatout5815]

Very cool, only thing I was thinking that wasn't shown here is that these engines would run quietly because no actual combustion is taking place and I thought it would run lights no problem, appears that the lights go on and off cause the generator couldn't produce enough charge fast enough. Perhaps a battery bank would heal that issue. If they had a quite version of this that could run all the lights in our homes and maybe a fridge or more then with a simple woodstove having a system like this connected to it would mean you could run most electronics in our homes and heat our homes with just firewood. Perhaps I'm dreaming of an impossible system. Gasification might be a better route to run a bigger generator.

[@ArmanErevancy]

Ребята классно ! Вы молодец, много поработали над ним. Один совет, если не возражаете... Большая площадь фланцов и множество стыков способствуют большей потерии тепла = снижение КПД и мощности. Желаю успехов )))

[@erikrobillard6950]

realy great video. well built engine and all the info. 👌👌

[@FrankensteinDIYkayak]

would be cool to see a kit or plans which can be made with benchtop machine tools of smaller components

[@riderericsson]

Very nice work. Maybe this is a stupid question, but why not use a much simpler beta design such as the Philips genset from the 1940s? It also produced 200 watts at relatively low internal pressures.

[@nr7000000001]

220 Watt is not bad, nice engine

[@UserNr1]

Интересная сборка, молодцы!!!

[@Andrey_Prozrachniy]

Стирлинги надежны и отлично работают в суровых условиях, т.к. просты с технической стороны. Жаль что тема только начинает набирать обороты. Мощных вариантов от 5-ти кВт (самодельных) я пока еще не видел. Может в скором будущем. Хотелось бы увидеть общедоступные чертежи.

[@sasafed1970]

Андрей! Надо понимать, что киловаттный Стирлинг будет в 10 раз дороже (и тяжелее тоже) чем киловаттный бензиновый мотор. Тут чисто экономический вопрос - кто будет готов потратить такую сумму на эту игрушку? С уважением, Александр.

[@Andrey_Prozrachniy]

Alexandr Fediaev В принципе возможны варианты если скажем потрошить старые негодные дизельные и прочие двс. Картер и водяная рубаха уже есть. Остается доделать поршневую группу, выкинуть массивный коленвал с шатунами, доработать верхнюю часть удлинив поршни ну и т.д. по Стирлингу. Кварцевые ИК нагреватели как я понял используете только для настройки, а так-то двигатель всеядный, отличная электростанция которую можно установить на даче)

[@sasafed1970]

Опять, к сожалению, классическая ошибка. Стирлинг и ДВС настолько различны по условиям работы, что даже игрушку из готового мотора сделать тяжело. Ни одна из серьезных фирм, которые делали успешные Стирлиги и не пыталась использовать детали ДВС. Все полностью делали заново. Прошу прощения, если задел. Я сам пытался гильзы от Волги использовать, но не удалось...

[@Andrey_Prozrachniy]

Alexandr FediaevСпасибо Александр за ответы! Насчет видео хотелось бы добавить, не слишком ли велики обороты генератора, может стоит поставить шкив меньшего диаметра ведь некоторые типы генераторов работают примерно при 1000 об/мин. тогда и выходная мощность увеличится и в качестве нагрузки не совсем выгодно использовать лампочки т.к. в холодном состоянии спираль дает кз.

[@keithbrier4397]

awesome build congrats!

[@eugeniosanguesasubiron5433]

Молодец, Александр! Замечательная машина! Это частное Ваше творчество или фирма?

[@VgarajeSuRf]

Интересный двигатель сделали!

[@NOBOX7]

very cool machine friend

[@ivanlotte2368]

3000w de lâmpada para gerar quase 100w?

[@ВасилийПупкин-т1я]

Поздравляю, годный аппарат получился.

[@ВасилийПупкин-т1я]

***** да хоть вырабатывать энергию из тепла или холода. Что за вопрос.

[@sasafed1970]

Ребята, у стирлинга только одно реальное преимущество - он может работать от дров, которые почти бесплатны для русских людей. Во всем остальном он в десятки раз уступает ДВСу. Плюс он оказался гораздо сложнее, чем я рассчитывал, и то, что вы видите - это говно. Я вполне адекватно к этому отношусь. Но лучше у меня пока не получется, недостаточно времени и средств.

[@ВасилийПупкин-т1я]

Alexandr Fediaev согласен что карно эффективнее стирлинга, но ваши реально работают. Это не выставочный от свечки. Есть ещё один парень в Сибири, он его (горячий поршень) в печку засунул, но у него ниже эффект чем у вас поэтому он потерял интерес.

[@sasafed1970]

Там работы плотной еще на пару лет...

[@ВасилийПупкин-т1я]

Alexandr Fediaev Удачи!

[@Epsilon-gm1ti]

What was the wattage input? Efficiency?

[@Chrisworkshop]

Very good. Have you try to pressurize with helium?

[@Sonsoftesla]

that Sir is a thing of beauty!

[@tkmotors991]

It's like a lot of power being lost due to the Skweek somewhere The belt maybe and maybe the acoustics could be slightly altered or shifted as this is more or less a giant thermoacoustic engine that should be getting a lot more rpm but nevertheless bloody good

[@arcianorockenbach4954]

parabens pelo desenvolvimento do motor....ficou bom.

[@valdirrodriguesbarbosa7224]

I think the model developed by UC is more simple and efficient. You can see it searching "Design of a 2.5 kW Low Temperature Stirling Engine for Distributed Solar Thermal Generation".

[@anilkumarsharma1205]

use the electrical supply for making hho gas by hydrolysis so we got more power to run the sterling engine and produced more healthy clean environment and endless energy forever and use extra energy for our use

[@Cheebzsta]

*blink* Uh, no. Electrolysis isn't a super sneaky magic process that produces energy. A stirling engine puts out less energy than it takes to power it (that's the basics of the Carnot Cycle - Thermodynamics is a bitch) so putting electricity in to generating hydrogen is worse than just simply electrically heating the engine. NOW! That being said, a series of stirling engines running on solar power to produce electricity and using hydrogen as an energy storage method (a battery) to be burned to may be a thing, in fact I am working on that as a hypothetical project for myself, but that would involve 2-4 stirling engines with one providing power directly during the day to the grid and the other 1-3 generating hydrogen for other purposes so that can I can reduce the fuel requirements for a back-yard biomass power station. But that ain't whatchu said. ;)

[@onur190772]

Very very nice amazing machine :)

[@peterpetrik3409]

Great job! Very nice motor.

[@sasafed1970]

Thank you for the appreciation!

[@hmax1591]

I didn't understand. How does this operate again? Air?

[@ziiofswe]

Heater on top (unusual place for a Stirling, but with this design it works). The added air is to increase the internal working pressure, since gas (air) under pressure can transfer more heat between the "hot" and "cold" cylinder, which increases overall efficiency.

[@estebancarranzacueva912]

Hello great job. which is the approximate cost of the installation and what is the power output ?

[@user-kolhoz100let.]

Если маховик сделать массивнее будет так ощутима просадка мощности?

[@mytickets]

Could you add a larger flyweel more mass I want to make one

[@marcosorlando596]

vc é otimo, queria muito ter intimidade com a mecanica para construir um destes.... acho fantastico, colocaria um difusor solar pra direcionar calor ao pistão quente..... pode ajudar? Ensinar os passos pra confeccionar um que possa ser capaz de girar um alternador de corsel a 800 RPM.

[@morritox]

Why not use an axial generator? The alternator is limited by their current regulator, so if the rpm increase over 800 approximately sends less voltage to the coil of the rotor to generate no more than 14 volts.

[@laurenceperkins7468]

Just get an externally regulated alternator instead. Most of them can actually output well over 100 volts before anything bad happens.

[@Aviator168]

You put 3kw in to get 200w out? Way to go man.

[@dalemi666]

Hello, can you explain what is the material of pistons seals and cilinder ?? thank you!

[@GhostRiderEvo]

The goal for my final defree project is to make a microcogeneration unit, some sort of Whisper-Gen, but i have a lot of research to do yet :)

[@esdua8966]

что то я не понял, от электричества посредством кучи манипуляций с металом добывать электричество? как то странно

[@rpjj3654]

Ce type de moteur est fait pour utiliser toute sortes de combustibles notaient du gaz ou du pétrole mais aussi feu de bois, dans ce cas on couche le moteur à l’horizontal et les barres plates du haut sont placées au dessus des braises dans les flammes. Mais pour tester la puissance en atelier un chauffage électrique c'est plus commode et plus sdécurisé que du gaz

[@трущобыВовика]

Может для удобства расчёта КПД временно так сделать решили. Подали 3кВт - сняли 200 ватт. КПД примерно 6,5% получается.

[@P10101G]

Very nice! ...I need a machine shop!...

[@FlakRaggare]

Electric to heat motor, then power an lamp. why not drive directly from electric from the wall from the beginning. how are you heating the engine up outside, no help from electric

[@sducanada2818]

Really cool!

[@estevedq4457]

Nice work sir

[@sasafed1970]

Thank you for support!

[@RobertoBotticella]

Good morning Sir. I've a question please. You said that max power is 220W@700rpm but you use an electrical heating system of 3KW. So if I'm right your efficiency is about 220/3000=> 7% . Is it correct??? Thank you

[@sasafed1970]

Hi Roberto! My be even less than 7%. The engine has problems of course. Best regards!

[@josee7599]

Alexandr Fediaev I would make that engine in a program called solidworks, you know where I can get the schema and the views or drawings of that engine, very good your video. post: I am from Colombia sorrry for my English.

[@inventomatic]

I've been intrigued by Sterling engines. I attempted to make one once. It didn't work. Too much friction, not enough patience on my part. I will try again some day. I could see these as being useful for turning waste heat into power. Though, there may be more efficient ways of doing so. Especially at 7% efficiency.

[@viniciobusani]

yes, but if you use the smoke stack of a pellet stove as heating system, maybe you can generate electricity from an energy waste

[@subirbhaduri]

however, it is still a great video, the way engines should be talked about, with basic numbers...my regards!

[@indiohellfox]

Connect a power inverter and then turn on the switch the electrical part to the inverter.

[@billsherenow]

This would benefit more if you worked as much with the energy output also. By using a much larger generator that would have substantial output to run appliances and more than one instead of a light bulb. And to do this you will need a substantial flywheel with dia. of ft. not mm. larger the better. Then you would need too apply a system of pulleys till you would have the torch output that your engine is capable of achieving full time at the smaller pulley to get the large pulley turning at the speed to give your generator its max. output what ever that RPM maybe from which generator you choose. Not putting your engine down in no way cause yours at this moment i do like the best. But every generator video out here are all lighting light bulbs which is small scale no one is attempting to energize the hard stuff. And your work shows that your capable of doing this and i would like to see it happen. Even if it takes a 10ft flywheel and and hour to get it to full rotation so that your motor can keep it running

[@markhodgson2348]

3KW plus compressor =70W use different methods of heating you are on the correct path

[@johnlucas2037]

nice simple design...

[@IoanBojan]

Congratulations.

[@itanc1]

nice dood!

[@anilkumarsharma1205]

use this sterling engine for making electricity and water hydrogen fuel cell combined with sterling engine and produced hho generators and hho gas power flames for running the sterling engine and produced electricity, so we got more power for use

[@ponchaiphraibueng2376]

เป็นทั้งทางเลือกและทางรอด

[@mycasper9000]

How much HP does it generate ?

[@sasafed1970]

200 wt

[@rubetrike]

Klasse werk

[@G2Greenpower]

i live in Egypt < we have big problem in electricity < maybe u know about it < could u advise what to do

[@sasafed1970]

Hi Ahmed! This engine in not ready for production now. It is only an experiment. Now I'm working on next engines that must be better. If I could manage to make good engine that can be work for long time we could talk again. Best regards from Russia!

[@G2Greenpower]

Alexandr Fediaev thax for ur reply < i belive u will do it < and i hope if it be more simple and not coat alot

[@jamest.5001]

Ahmed Ghonam I would use concentrated solar to make steam, to power a turbine generator, or piston steam generator. To charge batteries, for inverter. That's what I'd do if I had more sun. I still may, but use wood fire to generate steam.

[@yannessohyann954]

Since 12years! Do you still there?

[@sasafed1970]

Yes I am here. Still designing stirlings but no time to implement. But I rely to make one engine in one year. I have good project now fully ready.

[@yannessohyann954]

@@sasafed1970 Thanks sir! I'll be very glad to work with you one day!

[@yannessohyann954]

@@sasafed1970 Sir please, what's the software you use to design ?

[@sasafed1970]

@@yannessohyann954 For mechanics I use Autodesk Inventor. For thermodynamics I use SNAP - sites.google.com/site/snapburner/snappro

[@yannessohyann954]

​@@sasafed1970Great thanks!

[@чел-д5х]

Молодцы! 👍

[@bluegloves100]

Consider hho as heat source?

[@urbanturbine]

If an engine is not running away when nothing attached to it, then it is barely making power to turn itself.

[@Pashkomcom]

класс молодцы приятно смотреть уважаю

[@AlexSantos-db6fm]

3 kW de entrada para 220 watts de saída é uma eficiência de menos de 10%...

[@victoryfirst2878]

I am amazed that this even works for you with all the levers and counterweights. What is the engine efficiency of this item Sir ???

[@dibyendumukharjee8822]

Thumbs up & subscribed. Could this be done to genarate about 5kw of power?. Thanks for sharing.

[@sasafed1970]

This machine is small. You have to find the "ST-5 stirling engine" on youtube. It can produce up to 5 horse power. Thanks!

[@dibyendumukharjee8822]

Thank you so much.

[@betamale3]

Alexandr Fediaev That shows you the problem with Stirlings: the ST-5 is HUGE, but produces 5kw, the same as a little Honda lawn mower engine

[@koperwoper1344]

А нельзя напрямую соединить, вал генератора и маховика?

[@Pompiduskus]

Можно, но обороты генератора будут меньше чем при такой конфиграции.

[@Lorgic]

need to do a solar one, then put lots of mirros to heat it. free cheap energy from the sun

[@pycclanabramov4945]

А в дольнейшем чем и как нагревать планируете!?

[@sasafed1970]

Считаю, что имеют смысл только дрова или уголь, пелеты. Если есть газ или жидкое топливо то Стирлинг не конкурент ДВСу. Экономически он имеет смысл только для очень дешевого топлива, которое к тому же не годится для внутреннего сгорания

[@pycclanabramov4945]

@@sasafed1970 а если ядрёное топлево)

[@sasafed1970]

@@pycclanabramov4945 ну американские космические аппараты вояджеры так и делают. Там плутониевое ядро, которое выделяет тепло и свободнопоршневой стирлинг. Лет 40 уже летают и еще на 200 им хватит. Но дорого и боюсь для частных домов плутоний не разрешат использовать.

[@vladimirrogovoj9949]

Надо чтобы работал на перепаде температур водоема и воздуха или от солнечного коллектора. Тогда будет выигрыш энергии. Правда как и ветряки и солнечные панели эффект не круглый год.

[@finetoxicc]

Kvalitní práce.

[@farmerdiego]

VERY good job :)

[@евгенийпупкин-б8ц]

Ребята,почему вы берете прямой нагрев спирали? ну нагрейте что либо индукцией. А если сможете, то в резонансе схемку сморкуйте. Есть лекции Романова в Ютубе. У вас огромный расход эл.энергии 3КВт, зачем? Я 100 Ватами трубу ст15 метр длиною разогреваю более 100С. за минуту. Уйдите от прямого нагрева, снизите расход Эл.эн. Удачи

[@pratikmane8824]

Sir I'm working on a stirling engine project. So can you help me by providing some plan for the stirling engine project..

[@sasafed1970]

I have no ready plans. And all engines that I made are not engines itself but some test equipment to investigate some solutions... I could advice you if you ask a question.

[@johnhili8664]

Search on internet for James Rizzo he has lots of books and plans for Stirling engines.

[@hynekfuchs1378]

👍👍👍

[@MrBjorntsc]

3kw in and 0.2kw out. That's around 7% efficiency. What is going wrong?

[@sasafed1970]

When you are a child and starting ride a bicycle something going wrong usually. There are so many errors... Heat transfer is a problem, dry friction is a big problem, fluid leakage is a problem...

[@MrBjorntsc]

What are you using the hot side water jacket for? Is it to keep the bore consistent and o-rings at the right temperature?

[@sasafed1970]

@@MrBjorntsc Yes, of course.

[@MrBjorntsc]

@@sasafed1970 what temperature is the hot side getting to?

[@sasafed1970]

@@MrBjorntsc 600...700 C

[@ВасяПупкин-ц5ж5е]

Здравствуйте Александр!Скажите,как вы выходной вал загерметизировали?

[@sasafed1970]

Торцевое уплотнение из фторопласта. Раньше оно называлось "Ленинградское уплотнение". Пожалуй единственная часть этого двигателя, которая работала идеально. Почти без трения и без просвистов.

[@ВасяПупкин-ц5ж5е]

Alexandr Fediaev Спасибо за быстрый ответ!Надо же,когда говорят о стирлингах под давлением,этот узел считают чуть ли не самым сложным.А оно вон как)))Идеально и не свистит.

[@ВасяПупкин-ц5ж5е]

Alexandr Fediaev Погуглил,попадаются уплотнения для насосов.Вы сами делали или это готовое изделие?

[@sasafed1970]

Делал сам. Там нет ничего сложного.

[@Luisfernando-du2fj]

why, when you put a load in the generator, it create more friction and reduce the speed of the engine, if I know that the generation of electric energy is because of the induction, and the coils and the magnet, don't touch, why do that generates friction? thanks for any answer it could help me in my dude

[@laurenceperkins7468]

It doesn't generate friction the way you're thinking. Nothing is physically rubbing. You've got magnetic fields pushing on each other inside the alternator to generate the electrical potential. The faster the electricity flows out of the alternator, the stronger the fields become and the more force is required to push them past each other. (Gross over-simplification, but try rubbing refrigerator magnets on each other. The stronger the magnets, the harder you have to push. Same idea.)

[@Muhammad0ps]

Greets, great job Mr. Alexander, What is the name of the mechanism used for connecting the crank to the pistons, and what thermodynamic phase angle that corresponds to this configuration??

[@sasafed1970]

Ross Yoke linkage. 90 degrees.

[@ВикторРизван]

Извиняюсь за спросить это для чего.

[@sasafed1970]

Технический интерес, не более

[@joewilder]

Awesome!

[@jorgedaniel7195]

Subtitulen en español tendrias muchos más like y pasen medidas y materiales

[@retiredchannel]

steam engines use coal but this kind of motors can be effective with wood. imagine a world full of stirling engines.

[@PipopIntapa]

very good

[@lucatarabella8320]

si puo acquistare

[@npsit1]

I think you over-complicated this engine so much. Just putting two cylinders at 90 degrees to each other on the same crankshaft is a much easier and simpler solution. you don't need all the levers and counterweights.

[@poweredbysergey]

Cool

[@foxtrot2320]

I want one like that