Stoicism and Christianity

[@maxdanielstrauss7735]

Even as a Protestant I still enjoy listening and learning from bishop B,

[@porkyfedwell]

Same here.

[@stonwall9065]

Of course! We're still brothers and sisters in Christ, after all. We're blessed to be able to spread the word on such a HUGE scale in the internet.

[@chrisulfen8775]

You fell for Martin Luther's meme.

[@shayafendez7702]

Same 😍

[@bradyray4063]

I’m Lutheran, same here.

[@timrichardson4018]

This discussion reminds me of a time in college when I was struggling with doubt. I prayed in frustration, saying to God, "I don't think I even understand what faith is!" This was one of the few times in my life that I prayed and felt like I got a very direct and clear answer. I felt like God immediately responded via an impression/thought in my mind with, "Faith is knowing that no matter what happens, everything is going to be okay." That phrase is like a simple mathematical equation that can be unpacked and shown to reveal all sorts of truths. As it's phrased, it has a sort of stoic character. It seems to suggest the acceptance of what is, and the simultaneous trust that God is working it all out for good. Even in the midst of my confusion and suffering, God is there, working it all out for my good. My role is to cultivate an awareness of that. In essence, it's trusting God.

[@ceilsloan9735]

I kinda liked the other background better. This one is too "stoic"

[@johnnyroman3888]

The awakening I had practically mirrored yours word for word. “ no matter what, everything is going to be OK.”

[@User19086]

AMEN, PRAISE JESUS CHRIST🙏✝️🥰❤️

[@zachl2003]

Well said, amen

[@JoisonRaj_Joicy]

The main difference: Stoicism, the word didn't become flesh but for us Christians our Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The Word gave eternal life to those who believed in Him.

[@enigmasandwich]

In the New Testament, Jesus teaches about anxiety where if we fixate ourselves to things like food, pop, we don't really live. Some of what i said is my interpretation of what's in mathew. we have a will where we will always says its over looked since we can just be locked in what we see and where if we go on that, we become very entranced to it. so a lot of things would be seemingly spotlighted. People are over looking how it's as we live, not a topic that just is passed. we are not that easy. we split when we tire and somethings we miss is that stoicism is why we both can be stuck and capable. This is another fear that i have of stoicism, the fact that if we be watchful, we become easier in that process although we become better. so far, it felt like "easy mode" when i succeeded only to know that it was that that made me lose everything since it is a good point in us. i dont know if any this makes sense to anyone else, but i hope it was interesting to say the least. we all have responsibilities attempting to be well with, so i wish you well

[@PennyM254]

I Wasn't going to church for a while ,and when i was away, i indulged in stoicism alot especially meditations by marcus aurelius,it helped navigate life for a while. but there was something else missing,not sure what to name but the word "Relief" comes to mind and start of this year ,2024 i started going back to church, Catholic actually even though i have never been one , and guys the amount of peace i have is as they say beyond understanding which gives me great relief. I am not leaving philosophy anytime soon but am most reliant on the bible going foward. Thank you for this discussion.

[@vivacristorey4363]

Thank you for sharing. When my Dad died he was alone. I accepted the situation as best as I could as it was beyond my control. But I still felt a need to do something. The one thing I could do was to pray for his soul. So I began to go to daily Mass and pray the rosary for him. It brought me way more peace; because, it was not just accepting the situation but actually entrusting something and someone that I cared about to God's mercy. It was detachment as much as I was capable of, but combined with love/charity.

[@jonathanhernandez4915]

I personally liked the old setup better. This feels kinda ‚unintimate‘ in a newsroom bad green screen kinda way

[@SUZMIC1]

jonathan Hernandez me too. I liked the books in the background too

[@jimluebke3869]

Let me echo a comment about the new backgrounds, and expand on it a little. I liked the bookshelves. You could do a good intro panning across the bookshelves so that we could have a look at the authors and titles. It would have many of the same benefits of a liturgy -- a habit keeping participants familiar with valuable things. The Bishop could line up a bookshelf full of his favorite books then another bookshelf with the best commentaries on each book of the Bible in turn, a bookshelf of the Church Fathers, a bookshelf of the best Church commentaries on issues of our time (and throughout the history of thought), and other lineups of good and worthy books according to groupings I'm sure he could think of better than I.

[@marypinakat8594]

It's 12 hours and 13 minutes right now (as I am scripting my lines) since the Premiers of this show. There are over 9100 views already. And there are 73 people and a few elsewhere who have nothing whatsoever to comment on such rich a content and smart delivery of the message of this video *except the look,* and that too in the negative. *" Always wanting what is NOT."* What do you guys think would be the opinion of the rest of the thousands of viewers. Personally I am thrilled as for the *upgrade.*

[@christinasteiger388]

Agree 100%

[@wellnessgirl2806]

Yes, I really enjoyed the backdrop of Bishop Barron's study, and the more intimate feel of their conversation. This feels rather cold and more impersonal.

[@co7013]

Stoicism isn't just about accepting things the way they are. But in reacting to things emotionally, we are not necessarily working towards doing good. If we want to change things for the good, sometimes we have to detach ourselves a little, take a look at circumstances and causes and see how we can actually influence a situation.

[@vivacristorey4363]

To be fair, I think all he meant was that there is a risk of apathy if you have a detachment philosophy without bringing the love of God into it. Since we know that Christ wants to save the world it is much more personable to detach in union with God who is Love itself.

[@fuji302]

Being a Stoic doesn’t mean being apathetic or not moving to action. If we can change or effect a situation we should involve ourselves. I can work with the world around me and I should make it better and in doing that my goodness should reach beyond my own reach. Catholicism and stoicism can move together.

[@DoctorEstoico]

I been studying stoicism since the lockdowns started, and I saw the parallels with cristianity. Thanks for this video, it will help me with both.

[@christopheryoder8292]

You picked a heck of a time to start on the Path of Prokopton. I hope it has helped.

[@dr.ashleyfrank8045]

The thing about stocism is that it presents an actual framework for accessing the cardinal virtues, which Christianity only does incorrectly

[@РустемЭнверов-л6ц]

I am a muslim but I like stoicism because of its values. I think every religious man can find something useful in stoicism. But this bishop said very well: religious way leads you to the highest point of your personal development.

[@martialarts4330]

@@dr.ashleyfrank8045 how incorrectly?

[@Arthurians]

@@martialarts4330 I think he meant "indirectly" not "incorrectly" probably sent from his phone and auto-correct changed it... that's just a guess though

[@garygrant6987]

I miss the intimate library. Sorry. This is so sterile looking.

[@jimluebke3869]

Now that you mention it, I miss the map of Middle-Earth.

[@SUZMIC1]

Gary Grant yes loved the books in the background!!

[@cotaryan3740]

It’s too EWTN-ish

[@sarahpitts766]

@@cotaryan3740 I thought the same thing!

[@cotaryan3740]

Sarah Pitts the early 90s gradient fades!

[@terrikarch9799]

Yes I have been taught that we are all one body in Christ! I have grown up Catholic, came to God as a Protestant and have been turned back by the Lord to Catholicism understanding the Truth God had given me by being grounded in His entire Holy Word.

[@bnpixie1990]

Around 7:43 Bishop Barron mentions the connection between Buddhism and Stoicism. Just after the connection between Christianity and Stoicism is mentioned. And its funny to me because I went from being interested in Buddhism, to Stoicism, and then Christianity. Though not ways to salvation, Buddhism and Stoicism helped me look at life in a different way that made me more open to the gospel. If i hadnt run into them i would still be stubbornly against anything mystical. Too hard headed...or stone hearted to accept Christ.

[@AlanWattResistance]

Same thing happened to Justin Martyr and Saint Augustine. You might like the writings of both.

[@paernoser871]

Could I ask you something. I'm talking to a buddy who dispises Christianity because he views it as bigotry that we have a hierarchy (God, then angels, then us). He likes Buddhism because everyone is equal. Did you have this view? How should I respond?

[@AlanWattResistance]

@@paernoser871 I'd call him out on his arrogance for thinking he's on the same level as the Almighty, or even an angel. His arrogance and pride will bar any communication between himself and God. It isn't about what _he_ thinks is 'bigoted', it's about what is true. He's looking for an idol to satisfy his wishes, rather than accepting the truth that he seems so desperately to need.

[@ja0075]

Yumiko well said.

[@kaufmanat1]

@@paernoser871 the hardest aspect of Christianity is the idea that God is above us. It is human pride that struggles with this concept. We want to be God. We want to define right and wrong. We dont want to have to submit to an absolute truth, an absolute morality, an external concept of righteousness. Acknowledging God's superiority is part of becoming a Christian. God created the universe. God created us. Anyone who believes himself on par with such a being is struggling with EXTREME narcissism.

[@livingbeings]

Stoicism is a gateway-philosophy to Christianity.

[@GerackSerack]

And I'd say, so is Gnosticism. Both philosophies are, one could say, not so much "wrong" as they are "incomplete". In the modern world, they help many approach Christianity from a different angle.

[@thedisintegrador]

Yes, for me it was stoicism and neoplatonism

[@bassman_0074]

Elizabeth Kraszewski the Bible speaks extensively about the requirement for action from its believers, and we see this in tradition too like they discussed here. I wouldn’t say we’re comparatively more focused on the afterlife. Stoics and Buddhists also focus heavily on the afterlife. Marcus Aurelius spends much of his meditations speculating about the afterlife and quoting Heraclitus.

[@thedisintegrador]

Elizabeth Kraszewski Buddhism is also very salvation-based. That is inherited from the Hindu notion of Moksha. Read Dhammapadam, which is one of the key therevada text (as far as I know) and it is very focused on afterlife, there even is heaven and hell. Buddhism is also very “church” based, as sangha (the religious Buddhist gathering of people) is quite an important thing as well. Somewhere I even heard that traditional tibetan Buddhism is the closest to Roman Catholicism in the west, having a rigorous religious hierarchy with someone at the top (lama / pope)

[@EFChartley]

🇬🇧

[@FFXGuitar]

One of the problems with Stoicism is that prayer has no place in life. There is no faith that any appeal can be put forth to change the circumstances in this world, and it follows that Stoicism lacks the Hope that’s only available in Christianity, a gift from the Spirit Himself.

[@skippylippy547]

I like the Old format much better than this new one. The new format has lost the intimacy. This new format feels sterile. I enjoyed the discussion immensely! Thank you. :)

[@wellnessgirl2806]

Yes, I really enjoyed the backdrop of Bishop Barron's study, and the more intimate feel of their conversation. This feels rather cold and more impersonal.

[@toddswanson9549]

Agreed, it evokes an impersonal or anonymous corporate production, which undermines my confidence in the intent of Word of Fire, for purely superficial and unfounded reasons. This new format is more reminiscent of a local talk show or mainstream media news program.

[@TheWhitePine5]

I agree. Looks like a wannabe big 2000s TV show

[@techatk]

I am man in his early 30s who is atheist and exploring philosophical and religious wisdom. I have found significant wisdom in the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius that I don't feel I have found in other searches through religious or philosophical works. I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic school from K-8 grade and look fondly back at that time. I felt this discussion was talking directly to me and I appreciate the honest acknowledgement of why people like me are searching for wisdom in these traditions.

[@DiannaRose66]

"This is what you deserve. You could be good today, but you choose tomorrow"- Marcus Aurelius

[@matthewrogers2570]

I dig Word on Fire trying to stay ahead on the studio and being in the media. However, that particular background is pretty boring and is much less intimate of an experience than Bishop Barron talking from the library. Plenty of big youtubers use green screens but theirs are more unique to their aesthetic. That one feels very generic vatican news-ish

[@supremeleadersmeagol6345]

Matthew Rogers yep

[@wellnessgirl2806]

Yes, I really enjoyed the backdrop of Bishop Barron's study, and the more intimate feel of their conversation. This feels rather cold and more impersonal.

[@Warriorxpt]

I’m a Christian Mystic and I really appreciate Bishop Barron.

[@scooter5005]

I'm living a desert castaway experience for the sin of aging. And now my Christian faith is largely practiced alone because of the sentence of aging. It appears Stoic concepts could help me navigate another day mostly alone. Thank you for mentioning "stop expecting something else" and "The Porch and the Cross" as a beginning read.

[@Arthurians]

If you are still alive out there, old man, know I'll be praying for you. There is honor in being the castaway hermit, but don't let being alone make you lonely. God is right there with you, I'm sure you know, but you have millions of brothers and sisters of all ages. We will all celebrate together in time, and time is fleeting. Until then brother, I'll pray for you. You are not truly alone.

[@jordanmorales8610]

It seems to me stoicism is still just as compatible with the concept of prayer. If you desire to do everything you can to influence an outcome, and prayer is something you can do to influence an outcome, then you can desire to pray regardless of what the outcome ends up being. You will still be content in whatever the outcome was, because you know you did everything in your control (choosing to pray) to influence the outcome, but the ultimate outcome is out of your control.

[@joshuatheargonaut4412]

I think it is a mark of an intelligent mind to glean truths, wherever they come from and practice them to live a righteous life. I do not pretend to know them mind of God but when I do this I feel him smile upon me. He delights in my free thinking because it’s just the way he designed me. To me learning and enjoying Gods love is a fluid thing, always growing and changing. It’s not stiff and adhered to rules. One must just be open to what is true and righteous. It requires a level of honesty most are not ready or willing to have.

[@messybutmeaningful]

So Great!

[@NLT31]

I know it's off topic but I came across this paragraph from a book on Padre Pio's sayings called, Have a Good Day that I just thought I'd randomly share. "Reflect upon and keep before your mental gaze the great humility of the Mother of God, our Mother. The more she was filled with heavenly gifts, the more deeply she humbled herself."

[@T3hD4rkKn1ght]

This does feel a bit sterile. Great episode as always, however. Glad you guys are looking to improve things, but keep the homely feel if you're able, in my opinion. God bless you all.

[@chriskappler3482]

One of the main focuses of Stoicism is Justice. Stoics do not tolerate injustice, they are not apathetic against it.

[@Gabeking88]

From how I’ve been reading Meditations by Marcus A., Stoicism doesn’t deny religion, if at all I find it a great way to amalgamate my two, I am a die hard catholic, but my examples for how I read it is like when Marcus talks about Zeus, I say the of Christ(Hagios works for me, maybe cause both are originally Greek) and when it talks about nature I think of Gods design, when Marcus invokes the memory of men from the past I remember the numerous great Saints we have in the church.

[@Blue-kf6ju]

Beautifull analysis, God bless you both!

[@KhanhTran-pf1qm]

Stoicism is a secular guide on how to control the lower appetites of emotion, hunger, lust, gluttony.

[@christopheryoder8292]

You are partially correct but you are missing the virtue of Justice. It deepens Stoic ethics immensely.

[@BATMAN12378]

Stoics were pantheists. they believed in an intelligent active principle which governs and shapes nature.

[@Chove121]

Ex pagan stoic to Catholic almost in a way guided me to Jesus 🙏

[@mysecret0406]

Beautiful!

[@marcussmall782]

Should be good. Thinking about their use of the word Logos in the light of John 1 and 1:16-17.

[@villiestephanov984]

Yes, like vanity is a bathroom sink.

[@cavortingdruids3739]

Read Cleanthes' Hymn To Zeus (C. 3rd Century B.C.E). It will feel very familiar to Christian readers, including the use of "logos." It also contains the notion that we are the offspring of God; admiration for, and submission to, the divine order of the world; the idea that the moral evil in the world is the result not of fate but of man's freewill'; and a petition to God to free human souls from ignorance.

[@WaldoNevada]

Bishop Barron should do a Stoicism/Christianity book sort of like The Enchiridion by Epictetus. A short manual of Stoic and Catholic ethical advice with daily practices/habits/meditations.

[@ryanskol83]

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

[@emanuelmarschall9308]

Jesus said deny yourself

[@KNVBsakanable]

Thank you Bishop Barron!! for making me sound smart in front of her family...

[@MatthewJohnCrittenden]

Great chat, I’ve been reading The Daily Stoic book for about 3 years now, it’s really helped give me a framework to live by. I’m in the “not religious but open to suggestions” camp. Happy to take my direction from many sources, hence the reason I’m subscribed here. Another vote for making the background less sterile, the old set up had character.

[@andefps]

Waiting this for so long .. God bless you Bishop Barron

[@somewhathappy5610]

No need to insult the man just because he believes a lie, and is currently employed by a criminal syndicate. Just because you know god is a lie doesn't mean you need to insult the poor fella trying to do what he was misguided into thinking is the right thing.

[@laleydelamor1327]

Somewhat Happy Did someone hurt You? Parents, priest..? You were baptised without own will, but no one asked You to be born too.. is that also problem? When did You discover the “truth” and why is so important for You for other people to see what You see? Who said You catholics are against safe sex? DoYou have any problems with catholics because of Your sex orientation? Tnx

[@l.siqueira8742]

Excelent show. Thank you for it. I just want to add something: as I see it and as far as I understand it, stoic resignation to fate does not mean to be passive in front of those things we can change. If we can do something to change anything that's bad, a stoic would counsel us to do it. Stoic resignation is more like a kind of acceptance of those things we can do nothing to change and, in this point, I don't think it contradicts the christian position on this matter. As christians, we need this kind of acceptance, even while we pray for God to change our fate. The two things are not excludent.

[@ogechiezeamama703]

I strongly believe so too. With your point, no difference between the two. Maybe only the difference of Jesus' death which Catholics believe strongly in too.

[@Retrogamer71]

Stoicism is a form of moral discipline. Logos and and Logoi!! Porch and the Cross, not selling yet on Kindle.

[@oliviacorrea4198]

Some people are focusing on what they don't like about the new studio, but I'd like to say congratulations on the new format ! I like the visual focus on Bishop Barron when he's speaking, the split screen when both Bishop Barron and Brandon are speaking and I love that if I lose track of the subject (which often happens) I can read the question that he's answering on the bottom of the screen. Also, the sound is really good. The subject of this episode was great as always. Great job everyone at WoF. God bless you all.

[@supremeleadersmeagol6345]

Olivia Correa it feels so much more impersonal though

[@supremeleadersmeagol6345]

Nooo, noooooo. Old version is better. This is too impersonal. I miss the books and maps. Especially the middle earth one.

[@oambitiousone7100]

Insert the maps!

[@tjnlindaoconchuir1312]

The zen practice always helped me and so is my faith. Thanks for discussing the overlapping concepts and how we can borrow from stoicism without losing our belief.

[@definitelymaybe_cath]

I agree, some of their practices are worth trying, but more importantly, don't just rely on said practices, don't forget our purpose here on Earth, the divine will, "to love and to serve"

[@nancyainsliemcallister1422]

I miss the library as well. The knowledge and love of books is a significant part of Bishop Barron’s teachings.

[@johnnyroman3888]

Stoicism with the attitude of “it doesn’t matter, who cares” sounds more like nihilism to me. I love his interpretation of how stoicism and Christianity can be used in concert.

[@navi0111]

Thank you Bishop this has been long overdue. I hope you get to talk about the life of st. Francis as a stoic would be interesting

[@ZenHG1]

I feel like this is an overly simplified take on Stoicism that ignores certain aspects of the Philosophy as a practice. Stoicism did not promote a passive indifference to anything, they promoted a need to understand the good or the bad within and without and either ascent or deny. Cato was a Stoic that fought in a Rebellion against tyranny and injustice. Marcus Aurelius led the Roman Army on campaign for many many years in an effort to defend the Empire. Epictetus was known as a very spiritual Stoic who wrote Discourses on keeping constant blessings to God and praising the Divine (Singular) above all else and not taking credit. This is about, as you say, unleashing passions that are in harmony with the good while staving off the passions which are not. At the same time, knowing there are base things that have to be dealt with in order to overcome and grow. This is where discomfort practice comes in, in order to maintain courage and reason despite hardship. That some hardship is necessary in order for things to go where they need to go, so there is no point in whining about it. The Stoics practiced a way of viewing the worst possible outcomes in order to realize that things that happen, when they happen, are much worse in our imaginings than in reality. This video is rife with oversimplification and can promote misunderstanding, if you will forgive my directness. They did not say that one should not fight to overcome hardship, adversity, or injustice, but that one should reframe one’s perspective in order to gain ‘proper footing’ necessary to do so. In some instances the hardship cannot be overcome and is relegated to the will of God in order to embolden others and teach lessons. So the self sacrifice, itself, becomes a stand against injustice or baring a hardship with courage becomes an example of how to drive ahead. Some Stoics died or were banished for speaking out and even rising up, taking up arms. Jesus, the ultimate in Stoic examples, died on the cross for others... Martyrs in the Church died. They accepted their fate as the will of God. These are Stoic examples within the Church. Greek Philosophers, the majority, were also once Soldiers and war, along with warrior practices, were considered part of Philosophical training. Catholics have this in the Jesuit practices of St Ignacious. Yes, place Catholicism as the foremost, but in context there are very few differences.

[@Stormvermin-bx1lh]

God bless you for speaking the truth! He caricatures stoicism in the same way atheists did to christianity. Denying your roots is unworthy. Christianity today is as greco-roman as it is jewish. Maybe more so.

[@j.k.6865]

This is a great response.

[@RealOrbit-Australia]

Main difference is the use of logic and intelligence in stoicism. Goes against the judgement by God at death

[@ZenHG1]

@@RealOrbit-Australia I am not seeing how logical, intelligent, rational, and virtuous living go against the judgment of God after death? Could you please elaborate? Also, you over-simplified Stoicism as about simply being two things when it is really about aiming towards virtuous living and being in harmony with the Good... Something that is modeled by the example of Jesus Christ.

[@nicksibly526]

Thanks for nailing the point of demarcation Bishop Barron. As always simply refreshing to listen to you.

[@Diggles67]

The concept of the ‘bad Buddha’, obstacles that present over and over until we learn how to control our reactivity to them, is also close to stoicism.

[@scythewindcutter7579]

I really admire the way you teach us Bp Barron. Let me be your online student. Thank you so much

[@nicksibly526]

Bring back the map of middle Earth!

[@toddswanson9549]

YES!!!

[@_BirdOfGoodOmen]

So cool to see another Arkansan get on a biggish religious channel! Andrew seems like a cool dude

[@ktberlinerthegram]

THought provocative as always - thank you, Bishop Barron!

[@h.e.pennypacker4567]

We are living in era of the cult of SELF.

[@claudiap.6838]

I prefer this background. Because it is clean my mind can focus 100% on what is being said.

[@iesumaria1743]

Stoicism was a first step for me toward the Truth of Christianity. The concept of the Logos in Stoicism fascinated me, but the true meaning and reality of the Logos is the Incarnate Logos of God, Jesus Christ. I would suggest reading St. Justin Martyr on the Logos in his 1st & 2nd Apology. He was providentially martyred during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. Also, I'd recommend the discussion on the stoics in Book 19 of St. Augustine's City of God.

[@juliekaszubowski7523]

This is pretty awesome! I googled, "What Bishop Barron says about stoicism." 😊 I've been coming across a lot of quotes from the stoics. Another instance when online technology serves a very worthy purpose. While I listened I thought about the Serenity prayer( to accept the things I cannot change). An elderly Franciscan priest at The Cross in The Woods Shrine in Michigan talked to me about this prayer at every confession. So I can heed the advice in the Stoics quotes. Unlike the New Age cult stoicism doesn't lure the follower into a self-centered world view.

[@stevenroberts7256]

In Stoicism the pursuit of Virtue is the only good and leads to Eudaimonia (Happiness), Disciplining of passions and desires is not the tenet that leads to happiness, but lack of disciplining passions and desires will lead to misery or evil.

[@meereslicht]

Interestingly, Stoicism has been hugely important in US military training. It has been so for decades. Stoicism does not tell you simply to evade or accept suffering, like Eastern philosophies, but to go through it bearing in mind your dearest values, and taking your determination and goals to heart, having learned to separate your emotions or inclinations from what is right or true, or ought to be done. For the stoic mind, it is your freedom or autonomy to decide what to do that cannot be hijacked. However, in contrast to Christianity, certainly it does not give you a metaphysical explanation on why things are like they are, like Saint Paul does, for instance. That is, it does not give you a metaphysical foundation for your purpose. For this reason, it is possible to be an stoic and a Christian. Otherwise one would be a little too masochistic.

[@davedubay2572]

Fascinating talk. Bishop Barron has a relatively good understanding of Stoicism, though I disagree that Stoics advocate passive acceptance of the world rather than actively trying to work for justice. Stoics (ancient & modern) do advocate action to change the world-but with the reserve clause that one might not succeed.

[@cavortingdruids3739]

I agree with you. It seems like many other viewers do too.

[@Paul-ml4fk]

Its been 3 years but i need to come back to this.

[@TheMeaningCode]

16:15 to 16:30 That right there is “The obstacle is the way.”

[@SevenDeMagnus]

So cool. I practice stoicism but I'm listening in on what Bishop Barron has to say...

[@Esmee861]

I have to agree with many commenters on the new look. The previous background was much more personal and intimate, not to mention more interesting. The new background looks like any another show. Wonderful episode as usual nonetheless.

[@mariannepostiglione7001]

I like the new “clean” look of the background. It makes the speakers “pop” so to speak.

[@archimedesgonzales4933]

View about holiness. For Pharisees et al view holiness as kadosh which means set apart or separate. That is why it is not right for them to mingle with sinners. But Jesus promotes holiness as chesed which means loving- kindness

[@benjaminpeterson5621]

Can't say I like the new background, and I honestly hope you guys revert back to the old studios. One thing that is pretty cool, though, is the graphic of Bishop Barron's Coat of Arms. I would say definitely keep that!

[@francescocarlini7613]

In the political realm, detachment from the system leads to apathy and resignation, a call to heroic action against wickedness leads to political activism, detachmnent from the system and call to action together leads to anarchism

[@marie22tully10]

The old studio was so warm and inviting. I loved the library feel. This new look lacks character

[@marlynmarcelo6524]

I like the message that when we align our logos to the environment we have peace.

[@kunijikunini5797]

Good and timely content 🙏🙏🙏not so good background

[@ELECTRICBIGE]

I miss the old background :(

[@briyo2289]

Bishop Barron, I wish you would have touched a bit on the Stoic goal of "becoming [like] God", which Seneca talks about all throughout his letters on ethics. Aside from later Neo-Platonism, the Stoic goal of becoming [like] God seems extremely similar to the Christian goal of deification or theosis. They don't use the term sanctification, but more than any other non-Christian philosophy they have something like sanctification as their main ethical ideal. It would have been interesting to dig a bit deeper into how the deification of a Christian saint is different than the Stoic sage.

[@luisfebaez]

"All these philosophies [Stoicism,Epicureanism, Pyrronism] have a common failing. They imagine life can be ordered by human reason. Either the mind can devise a way of life that is secure from loss ,or else it can control the emotions so that it can withstand any loss. In fact ,neither how we live nor the emotions we feel can be controlled in this way. Our lives are shaped by chance and our emotions by the body.Much of human life -and much of philosophy - is an attempt to divert ourselves from this fact". John N. Gray

[@fortnitefan3033]

I don’t like the new studios. Too sterile. No “beauty”.

[@toddswanson9549]

It's not unlike the jarring experience of worshiping in a beautiful cathedral before being thrust into a generic 1970s Vatican II church.

[@aaron4239]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I really needed to hear from someone from the Catholic faith.

[@borrico1965]

16:36. Bishop Barron quoting St. Escriva. 😁

[@jameskeating4719]

Thanks PADRE ❤

[@curtiswhite4597]

Great content as always. Love the new lighting, but I'm going to echo a lot of responses and say the backdrops really give this an evening news feel in a bad way. If you're committed to the green screen, I'd recommend warm earth tones. Heck, even a backdrop of those awesome old timey maps would be better than the corporate training video look. Otherwise, I always look forward to Bishop Barron's insights and I can overlook the superficial to enjoy the teaching here.

[@krumbergify]

I think Stoicism is adjustable. If you live in a society or have a social position where you can make a large difference for good then do that. Marcus E did! On the other hand, if you encounter heavy rain, there is do point trying to argue with the sky.

[@captainobvious9209]

Stoicism matches Christianity on many points, but it does not answer the question of what happens AFTER we die and how that should impact how we live.

[@emanuelmarschall9308]

Does this question need to be answered? Many agree with the mainstream Christian idea on what happens after one dies, yet still live a life full of pleasure

[@JoelsPlaceTheSpiritualLounge]

Thank you for an enlightening discussion

[@mattfranz4219]

Looks fantastic. No more maps and books though...It's the end of an era.

[@MaterDolorumOraProNobis]

I like the content of this one, Your Excellency. However, I much preferred the library. I could almost picture you in a comfy chair, with your Roman collar, and a smoking pipe giving us a, as always, solid message about our faith and culture!

[@googanmcboogie9307]

Stoicism has done more for my anger management than any biblical counseling. The usual advice was read these scriptures, pray, and don't be. Stoicism teaches management through ideas lime mindfulness and Premeditatio Malorum. Also the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi is pretty stoic.

[@ZenHG1]

I am Catholic, by the way, so please do not take this as an opinion from the outside. I feel as though Christianity is an extension of Stoicism. The Stoics actually tried to grasp the Christian conception of God BEFORE it was actually a thing for them.

[@danesaavedra3311]

Well made video, definitely clarifying.

[@Linda-qq5mg]

Thank you for this very informative and interesting video. May God bless you both!!

[@simonzhang2373]

Omg I can. already tell that this is going to be great

[@somewhathappy5610]

Ikr it's like watching a fail compilation in slow motion the Church is finally dying in all her holy apostolic beauty maybe children will be safer soon.

[@somewhathappy5610]

@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 do you have any non-cult source for that cults tend to lie about membership they won't let me get of their books even do I was baptized against my will as a child. Europe's population is generally stagnating it would make sense that people who think safer sex is sinful are reproducing at a higher rate than atheists do so it could be true the global right is more interesting do.

[@somewhathappy5610]

@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 I did forget to hit send you should try to refrain from such accusations libel is generally illegal in most places dear.

[@AlanWattResistance]

@@somewhathappy5610 "children will be safer soon" Not from radical Leftists or eco-loonies.

[@MaterDolorumOraProNobis]

Somewhat Happy No empirical data exists that suggests that Catholic clerics sexually abuse minors at a level higher than clerics from other religious traditions or from other groups of men who have ready access and power over children (e.g., school teachers, coaches). The best available data reports that 4 percent of Catholic priests sexually violated a minor child during the last half of the 20th century with the peak level of abuse being in the 1970s and dropping off dramatically by the early 1980s. And in the recent Pennsylvania grand jury report only two cases were reported in the past dozen years that were already known and dealt with by authorities (thus the grand jury report is about historical issues and not about current problems of active clerical abuse now). The rate of public school offenses is in the range of 5-7%.

[@anthonybrown9685]

I wish Bishop Barron would have a discussion with Ryan Reeves

[@raymondmartin318]

Stoicism like Marcus Aurelius is best summed up by Constantine The Great whom described the earlier emperor, his ideas and thoughts as. . ."Absurd".

[@cavortingdruids3739]

Really? And why did he say that?

[@raymondmartin318]

@@cavortingdruids3739 Sorry but I do not usually reply to third parties. To European eyes it is futile and rather impolite. Please keep any comments directed to the original You Tuber and do not assume that social site means that other commentators wish or desire to engage in conversation elsewhere. I will however simply point out the historical context. That is that Constantine as a converting Christian saw Marcus Aurelius as a Persecutor of the Catholic Church. Further his Meditations expounded the Stoic philosophy which is direct contrast to The Gospels. Akin to St Paul warning the Greek philosophers that their wisdom was profoundly incorrect and misjudged. They had chosen to worship the Creation rather than the Creator and their foolishness was in effect idolatry! As Barron has also explained here, similarities may exist but these are unsustainable in any practical way. Further Constantine was a Soldier emperor and the famous equine statue of Aurelius with flowing curls, beard and loose attire were held to ridicule by the latter military clean shaven masculine ideal. In effect, to Constantine, Marcus Aurelius was indeed "absurd".

[@cavortingdruids3739]

@@raymondmartin318 Au contraire. If you go to a party, you assent to the fact that people may talk to you. By using KZbin, you assent to its features, and these include the reply button. KZbin enables discussions relevant to the video with other viewers. If the manner of discussion is polite, then I see no problem. I don't know of any evidence that Constantine saw Marcus Aurelius as a persecutor the Church, still less that Marcus Aurelius actually did anything of the sort. If you wish to "point out" historical context, make sure it's accurate. Is Stoic philosophy really in "direct contrast" to the gospels? Read the scholars such as Troels Engberg-Pedersen (e.g. "Stoicism and Early Christianity") for a thorough examination of the influence of Stoicism on the early church. Yes, of course there are some important differences, but that doesn't stop some Christians from being Stoics too. Read "The Porch and the Cross" (mentioned in the video) for example, it's excellent.

[@raymondmartin318]

@@cavortingdruids3739 This is why I detest answering third parties! Please understand that I do not wish to be rude .. .But third party opinions, hopes, wishes or imaginations have no importance to me whatsoever! I am not interested in what you think, believe are have design upon. To me such things are utterly irrelevant! You tube is NOT a party nor is it acceptable to interrupt a conversation or express what one thinks to uninterested parties. Any reply button is there for the original you tuber to act upon and does not warrant, imply or suggest we wish to engage with others at all. That is a misuse of the system and only ever ends in silly kindergarten behaviour. I am trying to resist that so on this matter we shall at best only agree to disagree and leave it at that! On the question of History and the emperors? Well any proper scholarship will endorse the emperors views on this matter and words as recorded by his contempories. A healthy academic study will show exactly how Marcus Aurelius behaved to Christians indeed the contrast being clear from his son. The opinion of Theology is that whilst their remain similarities between Stoic thinking and some Christian commentators, Stoicism is like many other ideas including for example Gnosticism - equally much admired especially by some early Churchmen - flawed and of poor appreciation of the canonical teachings of the Church. Its miserable disregard of Holy Writ and its lacking in theological tradition or belief almost makes it worthy of being condemned. I hope that this reply now ends any future debate between us, as I say I do not like to engage with third parties precisely because these replies can deteriorate into shambles and you tube gets informed or the video originator must intervene etc. So try to be of good cheer and understand that I accept a difference of world view may give rise to various opinions but we can only properly agree to disagree. Thank you.

[@seanmoran6510]

Raymond Martin Your comment is Absurd ! A lesser Emperor commenting on Superior one ( if true)

[@emilianomoreno9183]

Aprecciate the talk as always. Honestly the library background had it's touch. Nevertheless any attempt to improve should be welcome among the viewers. Congratz.

[@Kelpie119]

I like the program, but I liked the old format more.Thanks

[@terryhemingway6983]

I have to admit, I never imagined how many opportunities toward sanctification have come into my life!

[@joubertvandermerwe8786]

The thing about stoicism vs Christianity is, that stoicism doesn't need to pretend to adhere to certain values and beliefs, it plainly sees something the way it is and adjusts one's attitude towards a situation, in short it is an attempt to act something out wisely. Christianity in the average sense can force one to believe in certain things that the person don't otherwise see the need to believe in it, for example if you believe God to protect and provide for you, without the right understanding of it, it can lead you into various illusions and you may lose touch with reality in a way. Your belief system then requires you to believe in a literal place like an eternal hell or heaven, and in that gets you trapped in an ideological cycle. For me taking the route of Jordan Peterson and Jonathan Pageau in understanding what the text mean in a healthy way has spared me much of the psychological drama of needing to obsess over the details. I at this stage believe in what is referred to as the Logos of Christ, but uses stoic principles.

[@kaufmanat1]

You cant pick and choose what you want to be true. Either christ existed, was crucified, and rose from the dead, or he didnt. Nothing else matters outside of that question. If Christ wasn't God, then he isn't worth listening to. If he was God, it seems horribly irresponsible to use a line item veto on his teachings. Christianity is either entirely true, or irrelevant. Enough of this "taking what I like, discarding what I don't like" nonsense.

[@Philip-uy3bx]

It certainly obtains attention

[@Joe-po9xn]

Why did Stoicism tend to have such a complex, even antagonistic, relationship with Christianity when so many things seem.....similar between them and Christians as we understand them? Even Paul notably had some Stoic influences in his writing, and there have been echoes of Stoicism ever since to the modern day.

[@messybutmeaningful]

Its a very good question mate and I'd love to know the answer as well 👌

[@vitorpereira9515]

I found this channel and i love it! May god bless you from Brazil!

[@ErnestoVazquezChoby1000]

This is like comparing apples to utensils. Stoicism is a philosophical approach to live your life, focusing on virtue, while Christianity is a religion about accepting Jesus Christ as your true savior and the way to truth and life (John 14:6). What are you looking for? Redemption? Faith? Sound Philosophy? Every human should strive to develop a relationship with god, not to be told by anyone how to adore, tithe, etc. God has always been a personal experience. Also remember that faith could be dangerous on those who are misled

[@seanmarshall7529]

Dearest Bishop... I've always been outspoken with you... While your Lectures, Homilies have my total respect, I find the these conversational videos not as easy to digest. Your solo videos are pure..

[@kevingillihan7884]

18:30 Stoicism’s passive indifference towards injustice? So, so wrong. Justice is a core virtue of the philosophy. Stoics work hard and have the courage to speak up about injustices.

[@wolfyxdnight5035]

I recently took interest in different methods of promoting a more self-disciplined lifestyle. My reason for this is that I personally struggle with my impulses and keeping a clear mind so I can make the right choices that would better serve me and those around me when I'm confronted with a critical decision. My question on Stoicism and the Catholic Church is, since Stoicism itself is only a worldly philosophy and in itself is not a religion nor does it promote any false religious beliefs against what the Church teaches would it not be okay for me to practice Stoicism? I am a baptized Catholic and want to do my best to live out God's will but I feel like my difficulty to think clearly and stay in a mentally disciplined state is getting in my way. My current belief on the matter is that as God's children we are encouraged to pray to God as if everything relies on God but also we are supposed to take action as everything relies upon us and to never lose the practice of either one; which would (in my mind and reasoning) imply that practicing Stoicism would be okay and not an issue. I only wish to either be corrected or assured of my reasoning over the matter.

[@messybutmeaningful]

Absolutely you should practice Stoicism matez don't let anyone tell you different. If it benefits you and you have the mind to digest it then do what is good for you. Trust in your own internal compass.

[@Moribus_Artibus]

Tertullian admired Seneca, both were also against violent entertainment.

[@toddswanson9549]

An interesting footnote, the Gotham television show made a point to identify Thomas Wayne as a stoic.