Stop Losing Images After Clouds (or Animals, or Poor Alignment, or Bad Tracking, or ...) with NINA

[@JuanLopez-jk9mu]

You should SERIOUSLY have a lot more followers... You are the authority when it comes to NINA in my opinion... super streamlined and no nonsensical.

[@PatriotAstro]

Which is unfortunate, because I like nonsense. :) LOL. Thanks for the kind words!

[@SKYST0RY]

Hell, yeah, he is. He's a NINA wizard!

[@AstroQuest1]

Fantastic video Chad. I have been using NINA for several years, simple sequencer, but know have been branching out. Thanks for the simulated cloud example. Cheers Kurt

[@LogansAstro]

Thanks for doing the video on this. Not something I was aware of in NINA.

[@PatriotAstro]

So many helpful things hiding in this software package!

[@HeavenlyBackyardAstronomy]

Thanks, Chad. I didn't even know this function was available in NINA. I will certainly check it out and implement it.

[@PatriotAstro]

Soooo much in there. :)

[@Calzune]

Amazing Chad! And thanks for spending time teaching us on a clear night!

[@PatriotAstro]

Glad to help!

[@billblanshan3021]

Chad, can you ask Mr Berg to add that in the simple sequencer? Great video buddy, keep it up!

[@PatriotAstro]

There has been a lot of 'asks' for things to be put in the simple sequencer. There are definitely some challenges when you try to add these advanced concepts in there. It has a lot to do with priority of the calls/instructions, and conflicts with the basic sequencer limited loop condition, etc. It seems simple to do until you ask and then start to hear the issues, then it becomes pretty obvious why it won't work. Some things could be added of course, I'm just not sure how much stuff will make it into the basic side of the house.

[@billblanshan3021]

@@PatriotAstro I really hope they start doing live stacking, or at least the ability to view an image with flat subtraction, and the ability to do high speed image out or video so NINA can be used for planetary. Would be a very good all around software then

[@PatriotAstro]

@@billblanshan3021 I personally believe the focus is still DSO so my expectations aren't towards smart histogram and high speed/video out at least in the short to mid-term. I'm not on the planning or development team, or really any NINA team other than staying connected regularly to various people. I couldn't tell you the development direction with any certainty. Right now I think it is still a DSO focus. I'm OK with that since they are making such strides in that space. Best to focus efforts than get spread out too thin. (But for the record, I'd love it too!)

[@stephen2615]

Thanks!

[@PatriotAstro]

Wow! Thanks!

[@SIGP229TPOC]

Like fingernails on a chalkboard, so is the sound of PHD2 losing its guide star. Thanks for the tips!

[@PatriotAstro]

ROFL!!! Yes!

[@olivierrethore9097]

Excellent demonstration based on facts and experiences: this is what I like in your videos. Thank you very much for all the job done.

[@PatriotAstro]

Thanks so much. Glad you enjoy them!

[@_Astrovert]

Thanks! Very helpful!

[@PatriotAstro]

If it saves even one night of imaging, it is well worth it! :)

[@danharvey4449]

Great Video, thank you so much for the walk through. I have not have the courage to move to the advance sequencer yet but looking at this capability it almost a must, I live in Manchester in the UK where even on a clear night we can get periods of time with decent cloud cover. This will save me a lot of wasted nights. thank you

[@PatriotAstro]

Absolutely will save you! You have to take the plunge at some point, maybe now? :)

[@sdevine49]

Dan, I was right there with you about taking the leap, but I am so glad I did. With Chad's videos and templates, it is now easier than using the simple sequencer for me. I can see everything happening and I know when something is not working as expected. Just start with his first Advance Sequencer video and progress through all of them. Download the templates and you are ready to go.

[@TheMje1963]

Great stuff as always :) I look forward to your short videos that explain all the new wonderful stuff that keeps getting added

[@PatriotAstro]

Thanks Mark. Happy to get the info out there for people to start using it.

[@astro7996]

"Don't try this at home" cracked me up 😂. Another excellent video and what a handy feature. I most definitely had deleted many hours of exposure because of issues like the ones demonstrated. Thanks!

[@PatriotAstro]

LOL - thanks! If I'm being honest, it troubled me a bit to put that t-shirt over my lens while capturing light frames... not to mention the PTSD like symptoms I get when I hear the audible complaints from PHD2. :)

[@easyastroimages5818]

Man chad your nailing it man. I need some clear sky to try all this stuff :) keep it up sir.

[@PatriotAstro]

Will do! Thanks! Clear Skies!!!

[@jimwaters304]

Another great video. Keep them coming...! Will you be doing a Hocus Focus plug-in video?

[@PatriotAstro]

I likely will, yes. I need to catch up on some others first. These plugins are coming along too quickly!

[@jbflores01]

Another outstanding tutorial! Thanks!

[@PatriotAstro]

Thanks for the kind words.

[@tomwall8403]

Thank You. Very useful.

[@PatriotAstro]

No problem! Glad to help!

[@thomasmastrocinque7132]

Another awesome vid. QUESTION: Why in advanced sequencer there is a command for "slew to Alt/Az" which allows you to input the Alt/Az coordinates . . . however, while there is a command for "slew to RA/Dec", it does not allow us to input the coordinates. Perhaps NINA is assuming the RA/DEC of the target and therefore doesn't need our input, maybe? In any case, the Alt/Az always changes throughout the day, so inputting future coordinates, while 100% doable using Stellarium, is still annoying, and it will never be perfect because it depends how long the previous commands take to execute, which can vary. RA/DEC coordinates, on the other hand, are always the same despite the time of day/night. So no matter how long NINA takes to get to my slew command, it will always slew to the exact place in the night sky I wish (aka: the RA/DEC coordinates). This is important for me because after the preparation commands, one of my first commands is to slew to the celestial equator. I typically use Stellarium to find a star very near the celestial equator (where there are also enough stars grouped close together) , to find my ideal calibration location for PHD2. So . . . any insight why NINA doesn't allow us to input RA/DEC coordinates into the "slew to RA/DEC" command in advanced sequencer?? Thanks again sir-you rock!

[@JoseLausuch]

awesome feature and demonstration! Can you somehow prevent AF trigger when clouds are there (e.g. plate solve ot phd2 fails)?

[@ntaylorblanchard]

Great video! Thanks.

[@astronomynotebook]

Now this is an important video….❤️

[@PatriotAstro]

:) Yes it is.

[@robvandenwijngaart1970]

Hi Chad, I'm imaging at the moment. M33, but I don't know if the final result will work, because of the full moon and I just work with a stock DSLR. Anyway, just watched the video and implemented what you explaned. I just went outside and some clouds are rolling in, and it's working perfect. Okay, best thing is to have no clouds.

[@PatriotAstro]

Great! But in a world with clouds... I'll take this feature all day long! :)

[@alfredobeltran611]

Thank you for this, Chad! This solves the question of how to recover from clouds coming in. Here’s an additional thing that would be very useful as well. If there are no stars in the image, avoid to save it. I don’t know if it can be done with the advanced sequencer.

[@PatriotAstro]

It’s certainly a discussion. I don’t mind having the extra images only because it allows me to historically see what the system was seeing at the time. It might be nice if it could give you the option to remove those images or at least flag them as bad somehow. It wouldn’t surprise me if this was in a future iteration of the instruction.

[@alfredobeltran611]

@@PatriotAstro Thank you, this shows the capability of the advanced sequencer. I’ll give it a try

[@WayneHIxson]

@@PatriotAstro i just started with NINA and have really been bingeing your videos! Error handling is a big question I have, especially with respect to clouds here in Seattle. I use CMOS cameras with short subs and can generate hundreds in an evening. I’d rather not have to blink all of them to find a few dozen bad ones. What I thought of was to use the file naming conventions. Like HFR, SQM and/or star count. Then it would be easy to winnow them out or even just inspect them instead of all of them. Maybe NINA could make more items available like guiding status to insert in file name. What do you think ?

[@PatriotAstro]

@@WayneHIxson Possibly. Some of the info you may want in NINA is available from PHD2 while other data may not be. What software do you process within? Pixinsight has the subframe selector that can use that info from the header to score/grade subs and remove the worst based on manual selection or defined thresholds. There are other options to do that as well.

[@WayneHIxson]

@@PatriotAstro I use Astro Pixel Processor for all the preprocessing up to integration. It also does a quality calculation which it uses to weight frames and/or not use the worst n%. Even so, it would be nice to pull out obviously bad frames beforehand. I have been using Voyager for capture and it actually optionally stops imaging while guiding is not working. Not on my computer but pretty sure star count and. HFR values and maybe SQM are available in NINA’s file naming template. I’ll play with these should the clouds clear again… Thanks again.

[@josephbeyer4579]

Excellent video Chad. I thought I had seen another video in which you set up the parameters for dithering and recenter after drift. Have you made another on this topic as well? Thanks for all your instruction in the videos!

[@PatriotAstro]

Search for my updated shared sequences video. I explain it somewhere in there… I cover the configuration of these parameters. Or at least I know I cover center after drift minimally. I plan on creating a short video on the dithering side, but I haven’t been able to finish that one yet.

[@josephbeyer4579]

@@PatriotAstro Thank you, found it. It's a great step by step method for setting the recenter after drift trigger.

[@stoker9103]

Thanks for another great video. What's happening when the shirt is on? I guess that there will be no slewing until a valid plate solve is done? Just continuing tracking, taking images and attempts to solve and start guiding? THXS

[@PatriotAstro]

Good question. Basically since the computer doesn’t get any imaging data, it can’t platesolve so it can’t make corrections. In the meantime, I’m relying on my mount to track correctly, which if I was perfectly polar aligned and had an incredible mount with great accuracy, it may do very well. I purposefully in this scenario, made sure that didn’t happen to simulate a typical mount that may drift, a bad polar alignment, or anything else that could move the mount, such as a minor cable snag, power fluctuation, or an animal.

[@gclaytony]

Great stuff. Now if there was just a way to get NINA to pause imaging if guide star is lost...

[@PatriotAstro]

I know it is being talked about. :)

[@gclaytony]

@@PatriotAstro It would be a great feature add. PHD2 has the information to make the decision, and NINA already monitors PHD2 but doesn't do very much beyond status checks. Voyager uses this to achieve the pause/stop imaging based on criteria the user provides. I ALMOST switched for that reason, but I just like the NINA UI better in the Advanced Sequencer. So its not a deal breaker, but it would be nice.

[@zelodec]

Just finished my perfect sequence using your guides and now NINA as well as PHD2 randomly losses connection to the mount while imaging. Could be the USB cable, power cable or the mount main board. It's murphy's law 100%.

[@PatriotAstro]

Definitely check the cables and hub. Can even be a power supply voltage drop as well. Always something!

[@jeffhall191]

This stuff is a lifesaver. Well, imaging saver. Autofocus after HFR increase too... Just a question, is there any reason not to plate solve after EVERY image? I set it to that and it doesn't delay imaging. I mean, I know that's very aggressive but it allows for recentering on the first drifted image that comes in.

[@PatriotAstro]

I think it may just be a bit agressive and opens up opportunity for more failure scenarios I guess (like an ASTAP issue or something). You could try it though. Generally speaking, I target 15-30 minutes when doing my math and sorting out the settings.

[@davidschaeffer5322]

Question. If I'm using my ASI 294MM pro in bin 2x2 with an 8" RC. Due to the higher magnification I want the larger pixel size. Does the background platesolve use the 2x2 or stay in 1x1? It says 1x1 in the center after drift tab.

[@cyrilastro]

Hello, superb video, I have a question, the loss star in PhD2 will eventually put the system safe and pass on the end of sequence in the sequencer advance? Thank you

[@PatriotAstro]

Right now, if guiding fails, it will eventually just start taking pictures anyway - It will resume the sequence. Next to instructions in the advanced sequencer, to the far right, there is a 3-dot menu option. If you click on that, you can control each instruction and how it behaves on failure. Maybe this helps?

[@cyrilastro]

@@PatriotAstro thank you good for this answer, I have a look but no option for this option for now. I am looking for a simple solution to cut and put up and I think that PhD2 is the free solution

[@victorkrawciw]

Great addition to sequences. Is there any way we can make it stop saving images while the clouds are spoiling the party?

[@Elektronkind]

Yeah, I've been thinking of adding a "Wait while not guiding" instruction for a while now

[@PatriotAstro]

See Dale's comment here as well. Not yet, but since I planned on taking images anyway, I don't mind the extra storage. Gives me a historical record of what the mount was seeing during the outage.

[@PatriotAstro]

I'd almost rather have it flag these images as BAD_ but keep taking them as a historical record of what occurred during that timeframe. (But I can see why people are asking)

[@kennethhynes9782]

Great stuff. In your posted sequences you put "Restore Guiding" below "Center Afer Drift" in the "Triggers", does this matter in any way?

[@PatriotAstro]

No. Either order for triggers is fine.

[@salomon1639]

Another awesome video. You certainly know how to pick great and practical topics. Does the center after drift analyze your light frame without stopping your imaging session unless there has been a significant change in your image framing and it stops and recenters?

[@PatriotAstro]

Correct. It does a platesolve in the background while the rest of your sequence is running. It uses the previous light frame image for that platesolve process. If it is then determined as a result of the platesolve that your system has drifted more than you’ve allowed, then it will kick off, after the next image completes, a complete slew and center instruction to bring you back to where you expected to be.

[@terrymartin1243]

Another great video Chad! Your videos are absolutely the most enlightening out there. I have a question that you might know the answer to and one that has been on my mind for some time, but I've never got around to testing. Let's say that I am in an imaging session and the clouds come rolling in. NINA just keeps on going as per you video, but then along comes the need to do a meridian flip. The mount flips, but then it cannot plate solve because of the clouds. What happens?

[@PatriotAstro]

Plate Solving configuration in NINA has a defined number of attempts and delay between attempts. Eventually it will fail and just start taking images. Also, if you click the 3 dots to the right of the "Slew and Center" instruction in your sequence, (most/all instructions actually), you can define a number of attempts and how to proceed on failure. Next time you are in a sequence, take a look at the options on an instruction.

[@terrymartin1243]

@@PatriotAstro Thanks Chad. The meridian flip process is one that I have yet been able to totally trust. I always seem to wake up during the night, go out, and check to make sure it completed properly.

[@PatriotAstro]

@@terrymartin1243 I can understand. There are occasions that I use my webcam to check on it just in case. I very rarely have an issue at this point but if a cable snag were ever to get you.... it would be during a flip!

[@davanti]

Thanks again, another wonderful video from the NINA master! A question regarding "Evaluate after exposures": is the aggressiveness of this number a factor? As in, if I evaluate every frame what's the issue? Are you concerned about additional load on the computer, or is it more about eliminating unnecessary conditions that could maybe crash the system? I'm mostly talking about exposures @ 30s or higher. Thank you!

[@PatriotAstro]

I think it is everything you stated. We really wouldn't expect drift to occur too quickly in a system that has a decent PA, etc so being too agressive in my mind just introduces potential risk. I like to target 15-30 minutes when doing my 'math' for this setting. Then even if it were a quick cable snag that messed me up all at one time, I'll still be corrected in a maximum of 15-30 minutes - but likely less, unless the timing of the cable snag occurred right after the previous check.

[@davanti]

@@PatriotAstro Thanks so much for your answer; the 15-30 minute target makes a lot of sense. Cheers!

[@adyjoy]

Great video - practical and clearly explained, that's what I come here for 😉 I think I agree with Cody here in logic terms. The longer the time between platesolves the longer the recovery time after clouds or other drift. Maybe as a new NINA user I've not seen a 'flaky' side to the software in terms of crashes, but as it has been stable for me and as I'm running on a machine with plenty of resources I'll be trying out the shorter end of the scale and see how it goes...

[@PatriotAstro]

@@adyjoy fair enough. I definitely don't disagree. The stability is there. I just like to simplify any moving parts and cutting back my background platesolves from every frame to every handful of frames seems like a healthy balance. I don't think you are wrong though. Either way, we both come out way ahead in the case of a cloudy night! :)

[@derekdailey559]

Is there a way to have NINA stop the image when guiding goes bad due to wind or clouds? Ekos has a way to do this, but I can't figure out how to do this in NINA.

[@stephen2615]

I have had almost no clear skies since July last year. That means I don't spend much time experimenting with NINA settings when there is clear skies. But what. Restore guiding? NINA can now recover after clouds stuff everything up? Is there really a God?

[@PatriotAstro]

The NINA gods are certainly smiling on us all!

[@drjprovi99]

Thanks!

[@PatriotAstro]

Welcome!