STOP Recommending NATIONAL | Genshin Takes of All Time EP 2 | Genshin Impact

What if I told you that the National team sucks?
▬ Timestamps ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 - Intro
1:38 - Constellation Dependency
3:48 - Teambuilding Inefficiency
5:52 - Final Thoughts
▬ BGM ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Think Before You Act (tnbee mix)
Letter From Ajax · HOYO-MiX
Fantasy Note · HOYO-MiX
#genshinimpact #genshin #spiralabyss #xiangling

[@MrPheonix231]

How could I stop recommending it when it filed my taxes, improved my relationships, and would love me if I was a worm?

[@Dubstep_Gun]

"Nahida or Nilou" >Shows Barbara "He is confused, but got the spirit"

[@sefjo5223]

I think the most easiest way to relate this. You guys remember wanderer needing c6 faruzan, well you might wanna take a look at the national comst spikes as well. The four star pool is so diluted now that the perfect recommendation for new players is to choose a five star they like with the four stars they can sufficiently be satisfied building with. Bias towards national units will come from people having already a long time account and by virtue of being a long time somewhat dedicated veteran, they will more likely watch videos like meta, genshin, etc. Their experiences wont equate to a new player

[@butterfer0808]

Exactly. The best way to start genshin teambuilding rn is absolutely to just pull 5 star DPSs (or characters like Nilou)

[@alexprus7953]

As a long time player, I feel called out and definitely agree. It was much easier to make a national team when all the required characters were spread across like 1-2 banners and there weren't many others to potentially spend resources on.

[@tgamagedon]

I think I wouldn't use that comparison, because of the inconvenience of using non c6 Faruzan, unless you have impossible numbers of ER. National team as much as it might lack damage still functions with some reasonable ER, it might just be outshone by other teams at the same investment. I wouldn't recommend Wanderer Faruzan to new players, just because I don't want them to suffer.

[@MarionFR]

@@tgamagedon 'impossible numbers of ER'... bruh... Do you know what you need to optimize Yunjin or Thoma to get good value? How much ER... AND other stats, DEF / HP / EM?... Why do you think it's more problematic to just - click to sort artifacts with highest ER and pick to get 250-300 ER? It's not. Non-c6 Faruzan is NOT more problematic to build and use than other energy hungry supports. Other characters might be even more problematic to optimize. It's really not that complicated. It's just laughable how Genshin community is confused by such simple things. Don't be so confused, be better than that. Also - Faruzan is not only off-field buffer. She is pretty useful for more on-field role. Like in double anemo aggravate. Cause Fischl doesn't need electro driver, Keqing. It can be anemo. Faruzan is viable in such role starting from c1 and really good starting from c4. Overlooking double anemo teams is one of the biggest fails of Genshin community. But well, maybe you will take something from it. Good luck.

[@tgamagedon]

@@MarionFR Optimizing one stat to the extreme is actually more difficult, than getting a bunch of stats to a reasonable level. You need an average 3 ER rolls per artifact to get there, so 2 extra past the one you start with, that is 15% for an artifact with 3 starting stats and 26% for one stat starts with 4. If you have a character, that likes multiple stats, if you start with 3 good stats on an artifact, getting 3 good rolls is between 42% for an artifact with 3 starting stats and 73% for one with 4 and getting 4 good rolls on that one ist still 31%. On the one hand getting an artifact with 3 good stats is more difficult, but on the other rolling every artifact with ER to 20 is going to cost you a lot of artifact EXP. For a fresh account building up a stash of artifacts to, use as off pieces for your other characters, use in the strongbox or just to use as EXP for their carries artifacts is a lot better than putting it all on red over and over again. As for double anemo teams outside of wanderer, I can't really talk about that, but it was also really not the point here.

[@danielendless]

I can already hear Zajef creeping up your bed at night

[@butterfer0808]

I have not been touched by a woman (or a man) for a very long time. I honestly don't mind. /in game

[@minatoarisato7652]

I think this is great content. People need more takes against what's ingrained in modern TC'ers and stop taking c6 1.0 4 stars for granted in all the comps they recommend. I can't help but feel that most team recommendations from most TC are just for people who have played for years.

[@phoenixisatree5527]

I think the point of national now isn't "HEY USE THIS TEAM CAUSE ITS BROKEN OMG LOOK AT THIS DAMAGE" but rather because it uses characters that new accounts will want to build anyways. Sure XL gains a lot of personal damage from c3-4 but that doesnt mean her pyro application is gained through cons. Bennett no matter what con is a useful buffer and healer and Xq always has a place on an account, same with sucrose. Should people stop acting like its a god dps team for new players and use it as a way to dissuade players from pulling on a 5 star they might want? Yes. Should it not be recommended to newer players who still need to learn team building and the games general mechanics? No, as this team has very clear roles for each character, is easy to learn and is easy to understand how it works.

[@phoenixlau]

This is horrible advice. Objectively speaking, National variants will be one of the strongest weapon in a F2P's arsenal without requiring 5-stars. That's the entire point. Your alternate solution is "just pull 5-stars", but if you don't have enough primos to do so to build those teams, then that advice is utterly meaningless. Homeless? Just buy a house, duh. The road to 36-star is a journey, and you can still make incremental progress along the way. Even having a solid A side but weak B side will get you pretty far in Abyss. Then you keep building. Investing in the evergreen units in National will never be a mistake, because they will always have a place in other comps as well.

[@butterfer0808]

See, you get primos for free just by playing the game. Just pull bro, just pull.

[@Yanick_th]

The point of the video is that national (I don't call national variants national) isn't strong without constellations. It's easier for a new player to build strong teams with 5 stars than making national strong

[@mangshu21]

@@Yanick_th That's mostly game gatekeeping you with weekly boss mats, also as a new player expecting full c6 national is ridiculous. What are you smoking. Even if you built 5 star teams, you are still cockblocked by again, weekly boss mats.

[@phoenixlau]

@@Yanick_th No constellation National is not as strong as C6 cracked gear National, no sh. A 5-year old could make that observation, completely pointless. The more relevant concept is that no constellation National is more powerful than most teams built around a random 5 star. That's where this video leads ppl astray. The first two 5-star DPS I ever pulled were Klee and Eula. How do you think that went? Not all 5-stars are worth the same. National hard carried me until I could 36 star. Over time you will eventually build out your roster with meta 5-stars, but there is no faster immediate progression boost than National (and these days, hyperbloom).

[@Yanick_th]

​@@mangshu21 I'm the one smoking? How did you read my comment and conclude I'm expecting a new player to full c6 national? Also, I don't think weekly boss mats are a big deal at the end of the day? It is but one of the things you need to farm, and there are teams like Nilou that barely scale with talents

[@freddyman5726]

I think what we can learn from this type of video is that don't let other people to dissuade you to pull for 5* character you like just because teams like hyperbloom and national exists. Like don't pull hutao cuz xl exist, don't pull cyno cuz kuki better, don't pull ayaka cuz hyperbloom and national are doing the same damage, etc. I personally have this experience early game. Yae and raiden are my favorite char but people say don't pull them because fischl exist. I have like c2 fischl and it's feels sh*t for me lol. When i finally got them, damn i got a lot easier and more fun playing genshin. Glad I'm not listening to those bafoon

[@hayate0254]

Word. Although I will say, Fischl's damage tends to be better in teams where there's a ton of electro reactions (spread doesn't count btw), while Yae Miko can have advantage in teams that fit with her longer field time requirements. They're both strong imo, and in fact they can be played together really well

[@georgezhang1573]

Fischl actually works perfectly at c0, you need to take advantage of her a4 passive, which triggers anytime your onfield character triggers an electro reaction. For instance, on a aggravate team with yae, it triggers every time yae aggravates, or in taser it triggers every time sucrose swirls. And I have never ever seen anyone say to not pull raiden because fischl exists.

[@tesiro143]

You should play what you enjoy because u can make any character work and be functional in this game

[@onlymyself1234]

True, but you shouldn't pull Cyno anyway- if you care about meta, ofc, he's so hungry and requires other 5-stars to work well

[@kawaiimika7974]

What's the difference between pulling Hu Tao and playing national tho? National is better at shield breaking and national teams have AoE. What does miss "I require C1 to not bad trash to play" offer? Well, nothing. You're better off pulling al Haitham for your single target team. If you want Hu Tao to be great you need to pull Yelan and/or Furina. And if you go with Furina you need a teamwide healer etc etc. So it's not like she's cheaper than national, so who cares. Cyno is a complete waste of a pull, you're better off investing into Al Haitham or double Hydro Hyperbloom. Ayaka is a good pull if you are willing to invest into her, but if you need a good AoE team your go to is Nilou bloom, not Ayaka.

[@augmenautus]

I built national and really didn't have much success with it until I had Childe and Kazuha, so the video is pretty accurate to my experience.

[@Glast04]

That is such a valid take. I was a bit peeved at the intro since I used to play the all-star national team over two years ago, and it was my strongest team. However, I gave it about 10 seconds of thought and instantly agreed with what you said. Back then, my Xiangling wasn't even C1, my Bennett was C1, Xingqiu was C2, and Sucrose had no noteworthy cons. My national team was awful, to be frank; I had to run a primordial jade winged spear Xiangling with 140% er, and even with all the team's buffs and max stacking the weapon, my Xiangling capped at just over 40k vaped pyronado hits (worth noting this was before emblem). I did clear the abyss with this team, but it was only after I had some other comps built to usable extents--notably Taser, reverse melt, and a Razor team. I completely agree that focusing on building a National team (if your goal is to achieve your first 36-star abyss clear) is a pretty terrible route to go down, as the team takes some of the best 4-star characters in the game--leaving your other half team (as an AR

[@milkishway5053]

Yeah thank you for adding the second half of your paragraph he kinda clickbaits with his titles but I respect the youtube money grind. The reason why I still recommend national and hyperbloom teams is not just because of the team itself it's because of the units. Like what he says at 3:50 - 4:10 rubs me the wrong way since you're probably still building national accidentally just from the 5 star units you get to make a team and it SHOULD be the *top priority* cuz you're probably gonna use 2-4 units from the national team to get 36 star abyss as fast as you can anyway as a newbie. Lets say you started on 4.0 and you got neuvilette and furina since this youtuber likes to talk about newbies who doesnt have constellation so the teams would be Neuvillete/Furina/Lynette ( or any anemo) / any of this for 4th unit Charlotte-Beidou-Fischl/ now what are you gonna recommend to this guy for his second team damn that's crazy it's a form of hyperbloom , national ,tazer or melt(units arent as universal) team but more likely national if he doesn't get kuki (cant have raiden).See what I mean this is the situation I see most from newbies and this youtuber doesn't give actual advice for better resin efficient teams to build because IT IS national and hyperbloom just from the units alone his only advice is just pull on the banner like no shit and I get he's talking about purist that say dont pull for a 5 star and just hehe use national and hyperbloom but I personally havent seen those people much and even then those units (which is probably still 2-4 of the units of national team)are still gonna be used for teams with other units.

[@ArsGratiaArtis792]

Finally someone said it. 4 stars that act as well as five stars need a lot of constellations.

[@icekyuu]

People don't realize a C6 four star is more expensive to pull on average than a C0 five star.

[@Y.O.I.M.I.Y.A]

⁠@@icekyuutrue, you get the limited character at least with 180 wishes, but you are not guaranteed to get a specific four star

[@bosaad502]

@@icekyuu I can't agree more with you. I wanted to get C6 Sara got C3 Raiden instead... My Sara is C3 as well. And let me tell you, those Raidens did not come early. somewhere around 250-260 pulls in general. That how hard it is to snipe 4* cons sometimes can be. And I've seen worst cases. Some people getting C6 5* before C6 4* in one banner.

[@gamesdivision6511]

**Need lots of their constellations and crowned talents and great artifacts. Only Bennett and Kuki Shinobu are outright perfect at max C2 and zero investment.

[@oyfum2638]

National should be treated as just “one of the good teams” u can use. And should not be the end all be all that every account should build since every account is different. National is a good team but it isn’t without its flaws.

[@banir3736]

The problem is that we have a person like Zajef who is even now, currently parading out there saying XQ is a perfect character. Always omitting that he is talking about a C6 XQ and even on C6, Furina/Yelan has always been a better alternative in almost any case. Lmao Because he is so scared that Furina is better than XQ in almost any useful aspect.

[@oyfum2638]

@@banir3736 Zajef just has a massive 4 star bias. No matter how broken a 5 star is, he will always underrate them in some way. It’s just the way it is unfortunately. I do remember him saying something along the lines of “since x unit is a 4 star, than they have more value than y unit that is a 5 star” which makes 0 sense imo. Edit: also he once said that whales would rather use their C6 Xinqiu over their C6 Yelan cuz it’s more “comfy” which also makes 0 sense. Comfy my ass the enemy is fucking dead already lmao

[@kawaiimika7974]

​@@banir3736 Because Furina isn't better than Xingqiu as a Hydro aplicator. I also don't understand how is this even related to national

[@Ottobon]

​@@oyfum2638a 4* bais isn't bad, crapping on every other 5" (let's not talk about him and Nilou lol) is where it becomes a problem

[@kawaiimika7974]

​@@Ottobon Yeah

[@molokwuchinonso9249]

I have a few gripes with this video. Your argument against national is that it doesn’t perform that well without investment? Literally every team in the game performs poorly if you don’t invest in it, except for probably Nilou bloom (AOE) and the hyperbloom teams that you dragged in your last video (single target). Another thing, you heavily overestimate how much this team needs cons to 36 star abyss, my first ever 36 star was with national with none of the 4 stars above c2, 7 months after I started playing. This was earlier this year btw, in February. So if you’re a new player looking to clear abyss as possible, what really should be your best option then, since Hyperbloom and national are “bad”/“overhyped”? You never offered any alternatives, my second gripe. Finally, I’d love to see your source for Xiangling doing 60% less damage than a C0 Hu Tao or Neuvillete in a high investment set-up, because this is inconsistent with the recent CN speedrunning cup, where the top performing 4-cost team was a Sucrose national team.

[@kazuha32]

For new players, I still highly recommend building Bennett, Xingqiu & Xiangling up to 80/80 with level 1/8/8 talents. Once you have excess materials, go for 80/90 with 1/9/9. This is because you can use them as a team or support for other teams. Also, if you are below AR 57, don't stress & don't expect to do well in the abyss. Maxing out a character's constellations takes time but eventually you will.

[@Baku-Dan]

😢 I think I shd stop being mentally depressed by abyss

[@bloody4558]

the only one among them I'd ever recommend to level up to 80/90 is Bennett, and only because of talent levels on burst

[@noob.69sb]

​@@bloody4558Xingqiu is literally one of the best character in the game if not the best

[@bloody4558]

@@noob.69sb one of the most overrated. Xingqiu literally needs an Anemo character to carry his application, because outside of Pyro teams, his hyper focus in one enemy makes reactions underperform. The only reason why everyone recommends him is because theorycrafters and players alike all think it is okay for Anemo characters to be omnipresent in teams. It not ok, never was. Anemo and it's VV are a blight upon the game, not because they are bad, but because Hoyoverse stopped creating characters with element shred in their kit, forcing every team to have one and greatly limiting the range of possible teams. Same with their obsession in making 90 % of all Pyro characters into on--field carries or enablers. Or how all Electro characters from 1.0 to 2.0, having extremely inconsistent aura generation which makes it impossible to make proper reaction teams for Electro reactions(outside of Dendro).

[@noob.69sb]

@@bloody4558 The fuck are you on about he has the best hydro application in this freaking game. How does anemo carry his application he is a freaking sub dps no one uses him as a dps. He is better than Yelan in hu tao/Yoimiya vape, performs similar in hyperbloom, is good in freeze and also electro charge. Who the fuck uses vv shred in hu tao/yoimiya vape and Hyperbloom. These are the situations where his application is needed. Furina has slow app and Yelan requires constellations for application. And why the hell are you pressed about vv shred. Even if they don't release new characters that use it. Kazuha will always stay on top of the meta. He is enough to carry anemo into top 3. Anyways there is a reason every theorycrafters theorycrafter puts Xingqiu at no.1 or no 2. He is just that good better than Bennet since not all characters use the attack buff

[@fideoschafasconcovid-1948]

Bro wdym, national is the best comp, you just need to waste 2 years of your life farming emblem

[@icekyuu]

Haha I was one of the guys who usually recommends National and HB to new players, but Butters has a good point. National used to be a good recommendation back in year 1 and 2 because it was relatively easy to get XL constellations. But it is way harder now, so i agree National may not be good advice any more. HB is still good for new players as long as they have Kuki, as everyone will have Dendro MC, Collei and Barbara. Pull Yelan or even Xingqiu and you've got a serious team. Pulling Neuvillette is probably the best recommendation to give now to new players trying to full star abyss. He doesn't really need good teammates.

[@treeleven3316]

I disagree with the no point in building xiangling. There’s some crazy abysses with elemental checks especially ice lectures where xiangling comes in clutch. If you don’t have her c4, just aim to get her from starglitter shop or eventually pick her up overtime on banners.

[@joshuaq321]

I can get the rateup xiangling approach but starglitteer? Assuming you only pull 4 star weapohns and pre c6 4 stars you would need to pull 17 instances of 4 stars with the assumption you get 2 starglitter each instance at worse case scenario is like 17 multis. Which in that case I'd probably just pick it on lantern festival and just buy 7 wishes witht aht same starglitter cost to summon on a 5 star with xiangling rateup. Now if we're talking about standard 4 star constellations then that makes more sense.

[@ei-chan8929]

That's the point , if I have to snipe the character like I'm sniping a 5 star, I would rather focus on the said 5 star rather than waiting for xiangling to get her C3 to actually be viable.

[@Dubstep_Gun]

You don't need national to break ice shields.

[@hoangvinh1485]

I hate it when ppl said just get xiangling xingqiu from starglitter shop, like how long would it take? that you would clear abyss before then. Also it also costs your precious pulls that could be used on limited banner.

[@irena4929]

​@@hoangvinh1485yeah i agree "have fun waiting 2 year for starglitter to get your national team functional cuz their banner surely arent gonna rerun over half a year"

[@miori27.]

6:30 SHOT FIRES 🔥🔥🔥

[@edimasv4581]

What's that supposed to mean

[@edimasv4581]

Is it ten ten and zajef reference?

[@miori27.]

@@edimasv4581 yep

[@3XZDgg]

if you're pre c4 xiangling, you can rock the OG crescent pike xiangling lol

[@butterfer0808]

TRUE

[@Transcotique]

Dude, I tried to tell every new player I know everything you said in this video but who am I compared to famous content creators. Anyway, my Xiangling still has no proper artifact set after 2 years playing and i have no history of finishing abyss with Xiangling and Bennet lol

[@John_II]

Excellent analysis. A lot of 4* characters are good at higher constellations, and sure, C6 Xingqiu, Bennett and Xiangling are excellent, but no new player has them. By all means, pull for those three... Sucrose is a bit clunky to use and I don't personally recommend her - pull for Kazuha instead. There are a lot of guides that praise 4* comps, and they're not wrong but they're misleading. It's almost certainly a veteran (who has the constellations, artefacts and weapons built and the characters levelled over the last 3 years) or it's a new whale account. So your mileage will vary from theirs. You're not going to be nuking the Abyss like them if you've only been playing for 0-3 months; that takes years or thousands of dollars to do. Do NOT get taken in by the C6 Eula doing 1,000,000 damage. That's not you, that's a whale. Remember that F2P does NOT mean you're not pulling for 5* characters, quite the opposite. You WANT to be pulling for the 5*s of choice to make your teams: Yelan, Kazuha, Furina, Neuvillette, Nilou, Kokomi, Hu Tao, Zhongli, Ganyu, Ayaka, Alhaitham, Nahida, Raiden Shogun, to name a few META characters. If you're new just pull on the limited banners for the META picks, and then pull for your waifu/husbando/fanboy/fangirl picks after that.

[@ImagineCats9339]

I have a year playing the game and I noticed for a long time that my national team ( or any other 4* popular team like rosaria reverse melt or teaser ) is performing worse than my C0 alhaitham/neuvillette teams lol , I got consfused because I see everyone recommending those team and how strong they are but I didn't know that cons makes this huge diff , thanks for the video

[@butterfer0808]

Thank YOU for watching and commenting something :)

[@khazisaad9102]

Man even w C6 rosaria Benny xl, not having kaeya cons makes it so difficult to clear abyss in that reve melt team. I haven't managed to. Taser on the hand is much less restrictive because it's mostly beidou C2 and xq C6. But sucrose can be clunky at times so it's eh.

[@rednaxela4]

There's a reason why it took the community a while to realize the potential of this 4* when Genshin launched back in 2020. Nobody had a C4+ Xiangling, C2 Xingqui or a C1 Bennett at the start. Not to mention the equipment it takes for these characters to perform really well. And now, after we have well over 70 characters where reruns easily take over half a year and we have countless team options, I wouldn't recommend anyone to invest specifically in this team in order to clear the Abyss as quickly as possible. However, the individual characters themselves, apart from Xiangling, who is almost always tied to Bennett, are very versatile and always worth the investment in the long term.

[@luminous3558]

Nah thats cap tbh. At launch a c0 version of all those characters was actually decent because HP levels were so much lower, we were just all very silly and playing diluc, keqing, qiqi, Venti teams. The flaw of national is mostly building it in current year with the inflated 4* pools which leads to them not often being on banner and if they are on banner they are alone. Unlike in 1.X where you could have a bennett, sucrose, fischl banner.

[@raam2023]

Tbh community also didnt fully understand proper rotations and funneling and such back then.

[@lemonysucksatlife]

ah yes bulding er without emblem and not having many cons on your 4 stars yet@@luminous3558 i made a new account a few months ago and even with emblem energy reqs can still be agonizing, you also dont have high refine favs or sac swords

[@ziebus904]

And hats why 4stars from 1.x were consider valid in 2.x 2.x ones in 3.x And 3.x in 4.x... Bitches were saying "layla is just worse diona" when layla is just better at anything same with thoma who got his certificat of good 4star mid sumeru...

[@ziebus904]

​@@luminous3558not about dmg but even funtionality of this team... xignglina gets like 4s on c4 bennet doesnt functions without c1 Xqsu gets like 3s from c2 and sucrose gets 1e at c1 and gets like 60%cd reduction on c4

[@hayate0254]

"Xingqiu needs his cons" Hmmmm I've been able to clear the abyss running Xingqiu at C0-C1-- "...though I much prefer Tartaglia--" OKAY NOW WE'RE TALKING (is a Childe enjoyer) I can agree with most of your points though. The difference between a C0 and a C4 Xiangling is huge, and even Bennett himself also needs to be at the very least at C1 to not be jank to play. They're honestly not really as F2P-friendly as people say, or at least not any more F2P-friendly than the average meta team

[@alport1331]

For me 5 stars works really well even at C0, but 4 stars need some constellations to be less janky to use with only some exceptions like Kuki. And XQ needs constellations is an understatement, it's required to keep him playing off-field. Not to mention being lucky enough to get a Sac Sword, which also requires at least R3 to get a very high probability to proc its passive. Without cons and Sac Sword, he'll be needing around 250% ER or more which is a huge task considering that the sources of ER main stat comes from Weapon and Sands.

[@ixirion]

thats not how it works. to build ok national you need 4 Xl+3 XQ+2 Beny+1 Sucrose. on average 30 wishes per 4 star that means 300 wishes. BUT thats not 300 wishes to pull a 5 star. Thats just from pulling when they are on banner that you like for a 5 star. You can buy them even from shop and Lanmtern You have fav, Catch, proto+ TTDS. Beny instructor, VV, emblem from the box. Compare that to most 5 star teams. most of them need signature weapon and 1,2 5 star or even C6 4 star like Faru or Gorou. thats way more wishes and even time. Then you can be sad when National beats Rizly, Yoi, Itto etc, My point is that creator gives very bad advice. and even shows Childe + 5 star weapon + Kazuha which is way more wishes and time to build. If you play Abyss you will seek XQ, BEny, XL cos they fit in many teams. so this is clickbait

[@alport1331]

@@ixirion 5 stars don't need their signature weapon. There are 4 star equivalent that performs slightly worse but it's still manageable. You say you only need 300 pulls to get those constellations but that's at best and isn't necessarily true at all in most scenario. First, 4 star pulls aren't guaranteed. You can pull for 300 and you're still not guaranteed to get a C6 on any given 4 star, and you can ask anybody who tried to pull for a particular 4 star and most of them would say that it's a disaster. Second, these 4 stars rarely go by together, and you're likely to wait for multiple banners before their rate up, meaning for most of the time you're basically waiting for them to be available to make them on a workable level of a 5 star. And the same can also be said for the Stella Fortuna reset which rotation resets every month, and each and every available character in National appears only twice a year. At that point, why not pull for a flexible 5 star or just use them on other teams even without the said constellations since a 5 star main DPS works well even on a non-optimized support character?

[@ixirion]

@@alport1331 I think you miss my main point. You will get Xq, Xl and Benny anyway. If you focus on them they will outperform most 5 star teams. atm number one speedrun team for second half abyss 12 is is... wait for it... Sucrose national..... second is Hutao C1+ Kazuha + Yelan and it was 5 sec slower XDDD thats four 5 stars... to achieve second result in single target. Childe isnt even in the top 10 teams... 80 % of the teams used Xl,Xq, Beny or variations only C2 Furina is close, Yae, Yoi are single target focused and are 40% slower than Sucrose national what are you ppl talking about? go watch jamie content or some speedruns. The idea is easy clap on floor 12 the most efficient primo is to invest in godly 3.

[@alport1331]

@@ixirion Nobody is arguing about the clear times. What you don't understand is that acquiring those characters on a specific constellation level before they're on a state where they can compete with 5 stars. This is more of a new player experience because those characters at C0 aren't that good. Sure they're serviceable but why won't you pair them to a C0 5 star DPS instead? The narrative of "just build the National team" to clear Abyss and expect it to outperform 5 star characters is misleading because you're not going to unless you get the necessary constellations (and even weapons), and a new player isn't to be expected to have those constellations but people will urge them to use National either way. And these new players will likely get a good 5 star before getting all of those 4 at C0 so why not split them to create a more functional team? XQ and Sucrose works with C0 Hu Tao, or XL/Bennett on a Mono Pyro Team with C0 Lyney. Those are more functional teams than lump them all together in National. Surely it's you that's missing the point of this video.

[@jirachi1613]

Also most new accounts arent really going for cons. At least when i started playing i just wanted as many characters as possible, and i would be annoyed at the prospect of getting a constellation.

[@sergeanthuman]

relatable

[@ponderingfox]

Despite that, as unoptimal as it is, it’s still good. Am using national on my second account. A poorly built sucrose is still very powerful early game. It’s hard to get hyperbloom triggers early game. Getting 4* characters like Kuki can be harder than getting a 5*.

[@-toriizaka46]

cant you use lisa?

[@ponderingfox]

@@-toriizaka46 She’s so awkward to play, that I chose not to.

[@Nowaylarry]

I, for the most part agree. I do think that the missing damage from XL's c3-4 can be somewhat mitigated in some variations of national (at least to the point of clearing abyss no issue). I think the largest reason not to suggest national to new players is that it is objectively harder to acquire the needed units. At least the version of the comp used in the video. Sure you get a free XL and Bennett and XQ can be guaranteed with smart use of starglitter and time. But even if she is on rate up there is no way to guarantee a copy of Sucrose. Like you said you are better off going for other (5* dependent) variations of the team (International mostly) if you are inclined to use it. As for the debate on hyperbloom. I do think that the team architype reaches a high enough dps output for abyss at significantly lower resin investment than traditional hyper carry teams but you do still need investment. There will always be a degree of RNG to each person's resin spent. The largest upside besides lower average resin cost is that many variations of hyperbloom teams massively mitigate skill issue. Most of those teams have very flexible rotations, low ER needs and tend to come with mitigation built in. Suggesting teams to newer players isn't just about DPS/Resin cost ratios. I would also suggest going for Raiden over Kuki for hyperbloom unless you already have Kuki since much like Sucrose you can't guarantee Kuki even with a rate up. Don't be like me and end up with c3 Childe trying to get a copy of Rosaria back in 1.4. Generally I'd suggest to new players to pick a current or upcoming 5* hyper or reaction carry that they genuinely like and plan their wishes around getting a team that makes them shine. Unless you plan to spend money on the game, skip the weapon banner entirely until you are satisfied with the characters for two teams. I'd also suggest waiting for a rerun before getting 5* constellations so you have adequate time to determine if you really enjoy the character or not. Over all I enjoyed the video. Keep up the good work. edit; as a side note, low constellation national was enough to comfortably clear abyss two years ago when the enemy HP pool was half of what it currently is which is probably a large part of it's outdated reputation.

[@colinu9105]

As a International slave, I absolutely agree with the Xiangling takes. Pre C3 Xiangling felt so bad to play that I switched to Childe Hyperbloom to avoid playing her. Only after C4 Xiangling did I finally get clears with International with no issue. National as a team also just sucks. XQ is a single target hydro applicator. Xiangling hits literally everything. XQ just cannot deal with the amount og pyro Xiangling applies to a group. This is why Tartagila remains the best hydro for International even after units such as Neuvi, Ayato, and Yelan all came out. They will all do higher damage than him, but they don't have nearly the same hydro application as him. Another good point: The units you use in National are precious. They can go on so many teams its not even funny. So putting them all together means your two abyss teams are lopsided.

[@Winter_Sun]

I think this video bashes Sucrose a bit too much. She is a very powerful unit at c0 level 90 due to transformative reaction buffs received in 1.6. A lot of the issues for a lower investment national team can be mitigated by using 2-3 Favonius weapons, and farming emblem of severed fate is still a good recommendation once hitting AR45. Many of these units appear in the monthly shop and are eventually more accessible to newer players. At the end of the day, Genshin is not a sprint, its a marathon. Regardless of who you pull and how you are building your teams it is going to take some time and investment to build up a very strong composition to take on the abyss. If a player farms severed fate, they can still route many of their units towards solid well rounded lower investment teams (taser, hyperbloom, reverse melt).

[@NanayaShiki]

I remember when I first started people kept saying I should raise Xiangling because she's broken, only to find out she's very hard to use unless paired with Bennett

[@noni643]

almost as if your SUPPOSED to make a 4 part team with characters that help each other out

[@Josh-ru6kc]

Can't wait to rewatch this on jsterns stream!

[@ukikos4521]

Damn, i finally understand why people compare XL with Hutao and Xingqiu with Yelan while from my experience the 5* are strictly 3x better.

[@bloodlustaxe1500]

A well invested c6 Xiangling will always be better than a c0 Hu Tao, same with a c6 Xingqiu, but if you don't have their constellations the 5 stars are way better than them.

[@TheIvancol1]

@@bloodlustaxe1500 I have a top 20 hu tao and a number 40-ish xiangling ranked on the akasha leaderboard thingy. Hu tao absolutely blows xiangling out of the water in my experience if there are less than 3 enemies.

[@Redheisenberg]

​@@bloodlustaxe1500not true lmao

[@TheIvancol1]

@@sweatymobilegamer784 You can see it in gcsim too. Hu, Yelan, Kazuha and bennet deal about 10k more dps in ST compared to national. It's definitely a more expensive team tho.

[@SWPIGWANG]

If you ain't triple hitting pyronado you are n00b. To be fair, people that practice enough to 11aaz hutao can probably practice triple hit pyronado for seriously hard content.

[@AbhishekSingh-nq4rh]

Couldn't be more true!! I was a new player who fell into the trap of national solves everything after playing for a while i realised it doesn't do anything significant. I am not even talking about how difficult it is to execute the rotations(esp on a mobile) it's just that neither XL nor xq do that youtube damage at c0. Even after playing for some months i am only at c2 xiangling and c0 XQ. Now after getting furina i have switched to a furina forward vape with bennet xiangling and sucrose where my xiangling does around 10k and while furina vape hits 50 k. Yes i dont play optimally by using ttds on sucrose and giving the buff to xiangling but again it's very hard to do on a phone and many a times i had ended up giving the buff to bennet. Here xianglings main role is to apply pyro which she excels at. I am very happy with how comfy this team is, even with wrong character swaps its quite forgiving. As for xingqiu he has been sent to a hyperbloom team after i pulled kuki c2 on this banner and I don't care what his damage is there as his hydro application is more important. All the four stars on national are amazing together but that's the case for endgame players who have gotten thier cons. For a new player they are amazing but not necessarily for there personal damage but for their application of pyro/hydro.

[@georgezhang1573]

While I do see national teams praised a bit too much(especially raiden national), this video is also quite misleading for newer players. The point of suggesting hyperbloom or national is so that newer players that happen to get a c4 xiangling or kuki while pulling for a 5* can use the team for the other side. I haven’t seen anyone recommend not pulling, just not spending money. While some 5* dps units are stronger than c4 xiangling, most are still worse, and reruns of the good 5*s don’t come that often. In addition, the “good” 5* dps units often want 5* supports and/or specific 4* supports. For instance, alhaitham requires a consistent source of electro, and fischl isn’t that good on his teams since he barely procs her a4, so the main options are kuki, raiden, or yae. He also really wants nahida on his team. Neuvillette is somewhat of an exception, but still prefers having furina, an anemo unit for vv, etc. Childe is just investing in national with a bit better aoe damage and a lot more wishes, and hu tao really wants yelan/furina with xingqiu. Pretty much all the other 5* dps units are worse than xiangling. My ganyu, wanderer, itto, and xiao are all pretty well built, and all do less damage than my national/hyperbloom. The video makes it seem like a “limited 5* banner of choice” is going to be better than focusing on specific dps/supports and investing in national/hyperbloom for the other side, when most are not. For instance, for a new player with neuvillette, it would probably be more efficient to pull furina and run even a c0 xiangling in national, than to pull wriothesley, venti, baizhu, cyno, or ayato and try to use them instead.

[@butterfer0808]

I have a small bit of advice for you. Go on a spreadsheet, calc out exactly how much damage Xiangling does vs a 5 star DPS, with or without 5 star supports. I was being generous when I said she did 60% of Hu Tao or Neuvillette's damage. The fastest way to clear is absolutely to just pull two 5 stars.

[@georgezhang1573]

@@butterfer0808 which 5* dps with which supports? Ayato? Cyno with dendro traveler? Wanderer? Ganyu freeze with Barbara? Itto with c0 gorou and geo traveler? There’s no general power level of 5*, obviously if you assume neuvillette or hu tao they do more damage, but many 5* characters do not do as much damage.

[@johndebaun7125]

@@butterfer0808 why should we do that? it is your video to disprove national team. Should you be the one to show us calculations or comparison in your videos?

[@neildelossantos7204]

​@@johndebaun7125nah bro just "national bad"

[@XLinkiboy]

@@neildelossantos7204 I love how national is supposed to be 60% of Hu Tao, but in Jamie's new vid with speed runs from CN side, the best 4 cost team is national. I mean maybe it's player diff but still I don't think it can be a bad team

[@parkerdavis7859]

I think the important lesson is that this is ultimately a game that has tiered levels of enjoyment. From price tiers of F2P, Welkin, BP+Welkin, Dolphin and Whale, to time investments that get 25CV per piece per character to 40CV per piece per character and whether or not you compulsively log in to make sure you never cap on resin, to whether or not you actively seek out knowledge of this game's meta or just experiment until you see big number, you should never talk down to players, especially new ones, who are coming into the game with widely different sets of expectations and goals for their Genshin account. This game's "meta" evolves quite a lot over time, we're 2 years removed from the Raiden/Emblem meta, but are her teams actually falling off in numbers? Basically not at all, it just depends on what enemies you're facing. The diverse roster of playable characters & enemies, as well as new mechanics that introduce themselves with each region, don't make previous strategies null and void. If a new player were to join in 4.3 and ask whether they should wish for Navia or Ayaka, you can confidently say "whoever you like looking at more" and they will be no worse off. Freeze isn't super popular anymore but Ayaka is still great. Navia is introducing an entirely new way to play the game that might be even more valuable as more units with matching field times are introduced but the domain that gives her the best possible artifacts won't be available to new players until they decide to take a hike to Fontaine or get high enough AR to care. Genshin takes a long time to play and flesh out, and that journey is part of the fun. There's no right or wrong way to build an account, but there are wrong ways to talk to a new player, and that's assuming that they'll give as much of a shit as us veterans do. That's the key to all of this, I think. Thanks for the vid, man.

[@ammhero123]

I think it should be mentioned that Sucrose is the hardest one to get at c0 within the national team. She is one of the 1.0 4 stars that doesn't appear in the starglitter shop. and with more 4 stars come out, the more diluted the standard banner gets. it takes 2.5 years for me (a day 2 player) to get a c0 sucrose from a rate up banner that I don't want the 5 star on that banner. There's also the fact about Sucrose's clunky grouping at c0 and needing c1 or high refine sac frag to group better. the need of grouping is especially relevant when you want to get pyronado hit the wave of enemies.

[@jungqianchen8348]

Put fischl, or heizou, or raiden, or any ttds slave/vv carrier/dps(on field or off-field), complaining about the flex slot is litteraly the weakest legitimate argument I ever heard about any team lol.

[@ryzhik9608]

@@jungqianchen8348 Seeing how everyone is badchesting Sucrose, the comment is based and it doesn't matter that she is a flex slot she is still overrated

[@jungqianchen8348]

@@ryzhik9608 Kazuha is overrated, I'm serious, he is one of the strongest units in the game but there are too many people who just say he is the second coming of jesus and a must pull, but the reality is that the existence of Sucrose lowers the urgency to pull him no matter if she is strongher or weaker, this is why lots of Kazuha mains needs to trash Sucrose every time, they need to justify that their R1C2 Kazuha was a good financial decision, otherwise buyer's remorse kicks in lol. Otherwise why people spend so much time trashing a 4* units that they clearly never played?

[@ryzhik9608]

@@jungqianchen8348 I literally said nothing about Kazuha here. Sucrose badchesters rushing to shit on Kazuha every time Sucrpse is getting criticized. Kazuha is a way comfier option than Sucrose, Sucrose is half functional, Kazuha is easy to operate. I actually played Sucrose and she feels like dogwater. I saw a Sucrose badchester playing Sucrose with perfect rotation, it barely passed 1:30 second mark on previous abyss cycle.

[@jungqianchen8348]

@@ryzhik9608 You litterally outed yourself in 1 sentence, only kazuha simps spend time literally trashing a free units so they can justify their spendings, keep going, keep throwning "but sucrose is trash" out of nowhere when we are just talking about national. The video above is talking about how deceptively expensive is national; the main comment says "I agree, in fact sucrose is hard to get and is part of national" I say "but you don't need sucrose, you can slot anyone here, she is the least important unit of national and not required to play a "national team" " You just go out and nowhere and say "but sucrose bad", it's clear as water you are a Kazuha main that felt his insecurities attacked by the sheer mention of her name. Just don't play her and live your life? You don't even know my opinion of her strenght bcs I never expressed it, but I'm sure if I put her in a team she is serviceble at least, I dont get insta-cancer, my dog doesn't get shot and my family is still alive, also you are poor shaming people by saying "ha this guy's damage is low while my C2R1 Kazuha clear 30 seconds faster" or whatever. Well you give me the inspiration to try to clear this abyss with both of them for fun and see if kazuha can cure my depression while sucrose is undermining the national security of my home state.

[@luminous3558]

Yeah pulling 4* cons is just pain. You will end up with 5*s you don't want and probably have to split yourself across multiple banners to be able to acquire the national pieces needed. And for what? To play a boring team that everybody else has been sick of since 2 years ago? Instead just go for whatever banner you like and build around that 5*. Genshin TC content creation has been stuck with the same recommendations for a while and everyone still seems to think the unit pool is as narrow as it was pre dendro. You no longer need Xingqiu on both sides to make competent teams. You don't need strict team setups that prevent you from focusing on units you like. There are many 5* characters released now that build their own teams without using up common supports. I'd rather tell a new player to pull Neuvillete or Nilou than hand them a shopping list of multiple 4*s that need cons.

[@butterfer0808]

Yep

[@irena4929]

Bro splitting out fact

[@Dubstep_Gun]

Naaaah bro, you should not pull Nilou, she is niche. Please Ignore the fact even in her niche she has access to three free units who works at c0...unlike Xiangling

[@putent9623]

​@@Dubstep_Gunxiangling works at C0, what are you yapping about.

[@putent9623]

Bro, TC doesnt do what the fk ur talking about. If you follow TC they literally just recommend top tier dps now. I havent any TC i follow recommend this shit before.

[@maryjane4128]

just to add: xiangling is also hard to consistently burst as a new player if you dont have another pyro battery. (it doesnt have to be bennett, but bennett is her best duo damage wise) though even without cons, i still think these 3 should definitely still be built for the element checks in abyss

[@subarutriggered3022]

As someone who cleared abyss for the first time with national (BennettC1, xianglingC2, xingqiu C2,kazuha). I strongly disagree with those takes, specially calling xiangling dysfunctional before c4, thats just being out of touch with the new players experience or straight up liyng. Won't deny by any means that c4 is a huge increase but you can reach the DPS requirements for floor 12 without it. Started playing since 3.6 and national really carried me through all the content, as a new player, you should absolutely go for it (if you can bcz Bennett and sucrose aren't always available). Edit for some context: it was around neuvi's banner not to long ago. The other team was a unusual hyperfridge(kokomi, Ganyu, DMC and kuki)all c0 at the time except DMC, I don't recommend it but it worked.

[@Dubstep_Gun]

You got Kazuha, a 5*, which signifiantly reduces requirements, op exactly talks about it

[@user-yj2fm6wh1l]

This - content makes it sound like pre-C4 xiangling doesn't pump out damage. Sure, C4 gets a huge boost - but it's a boost to an already substantial damage. Also - F2P players don't have the luxury of always getting great meta units. Sure, if you have better units, then by all means break up the National and build something else. But, chances are, F2P players will be getting one or two 5 stars at the beginning and of course, there's the chance of getting qiqi and the gang.

[@kawaiimika7974]

​@@Dubstep_Gun Using national as a newer player does not equate to "you should play this F2P variant forever". Like, you should vertically invest into it eventually, get Kazuha, get Raiden or Childe to be on field. Same with Hyperbloom or Nilou, get Al Haitham, get Nahida.

[@kawaiimika7974]

Like, why does everything have to be so black and white all the time. Is it that hard to tell a newer player "Get Kazuha, get Nahida, get a Hydro 5 star of your choice and then you'll have a lot of reliable team possibilities to choose from"

[@HotPepperLala]

How are you gonna get C2 Xingqiu RIGHT NOW though? Where is your FREE Bennett RIGHT NOW?

[@Iost89]

Totally agree. There's no way a new player can execute the teams rotation. I was recommended this team when I was low AR and the team just felt like garbage to play. And at the point when you understand how to properly funnel particles and guoba double swirl you probably already have better teams with 5* dpses.

[@fredxu99]

Yep same experience here, with XQ especially. I was told XQ was better than Yelan, but I pulled Yelan anyway because I liked the character design. Guess which unit never left my team? Yelan. XQ got benched immediately until I got more constellations and a Fav sword. He is absolutely abysmal to play since his skill has a LONGER COOLDOWN THAN HIS BURST, and the only thing that can fix that is R5 Sacrificial Sword.. R5 Sac content creators seem to forget this simple design flaw with XQ that makes him horrid to play for general use. I don't know when, or if, I will go for R5 Sac, but until then XQ just sucks to play and I cope with the fact that he's still the best Hydro I have available for a 2nd team..

[@hiro_444]

The point of recommending national team and other f2p friendly teams isn't really that anyone is expecting a newbie to execute the rotations and mechanics of it properly. It's just that all the characters in those teams are really good, you can use those characters in a ton of other teams even if you aren't using national. Plus It's a really good way for introducing new players to the game's mechanics. Because if someone learns how to use sucrose national properly, they would basically be covering at least half of this games general combat mechanics. So it gives a clear path for the player to learn the gameplay. The video and comments are going by the assumption that the national team is being recommended to newbies who're starting out the game, but I've honestly never seen anyone recommending sucrose national to completely clueless beginners, maybe some would recommend raiden national(which is honestly fair, it requires 0 game knowledge to run as long you know the correct rotation, and it has one of the highest ST dps in the game), but I've only seen sucrose national being mentioned when someone is taking 36* clearing abyss seriously, where clearing the above mentioned points (having proper gameplay knowledge and well built generalised supports) will significantly help you get there, especially if you're f2p. Personally tho, my favorite full 4* team is sucrose taser, I think that was the first team I found as a recommended f2p team as well. It's just braindead easy to play and clears almost any aoe chamber easily

[@vigilantdinho]

​@@fredxu99 The reason people saying xingqiu is because of his utility. Unlike yelan, xingqiu has higher hydro application, defensive utility and healing. Yelan beats xingqiu in terms of raw damage and thanks to her A4, a decent buff only to the active character. R5 sac sword does make him "feel" alot better to play but must people will tell you that sac sword is not even his best weapon. In fact fav is better in most team. All Sac sword really does is allow double skill and you do it in succession anyways so it's basically a small difference in terms of aligning the cooldown. The ability to use 2 kills just gives xingqiu more particles and an easier time energy. Fav does that same thing but for the team as well and not just xingqiu. As long as you have the energy to burst off cooldown, the cooldown on the skill literally matters very little considering your burst will constantly be up and you can just use the skill eventually for particles. Therefore that long skill cooldown is a non issue. Fav can easily be replaced as well. If you don't need that much energy, like in a Raiden team for example, you can just go any offensive weapon, making him do good damage with consistent burst uptime. Yelan has the same energy issue if anything even her best in slot f2p option is fav and not sac bow. Point is, xingiqu long skill cooldown is a non issue and you don't need sac sword to change anything. Is it recommended yes but it's not even the best. It's most likely just the most comfortable.

[@Rayogami]

My sis started playing genshin couple weeks ago. I just told her build Bennet and Xiangling, get fischl from the store, get xingqiu from the lantern rite event, and get Raiden from the current banner. Everything for the future. I strongly believe the best advice u can give to new players is don't worry about the abyss just play the main story, and build your supports. Teams depend on the account.

[@skr0gu3]

crazy good advice ngl

[@Lynemn]

The reason why Xiangling is the best pyro sub-DPS is because she is the ONLY pyro sub-DPS in the game. Like, seriously... they haven't released a single pyro sub-DPS, not one, since 1.0. They could have done something with Dehya, but they instead decided to absolutely massacre her kit, so Xiangling remains the best and only sub-DPS of the pyro element, who happens to have very good synergy with Bennett, as they've also not released a single pyro attack buffer since 1.0, either. Chevreuse is incoming, but she's going to be hyper-specialized for overload teams, meaning Yoimiya teams. Meanwhile, the best sub-DPS characters are hydro, dendro, and electro... which is why hyperbloom is such a huge thing. Aggravate is also really good, though.

[@MrGoodra17]

Then there is me playing on-field xiangling+c6 Bennett to vape mademoiselle Crabaletta

[@butterfer0808]

BASED

[@georgezhang1573]

Why onfield xiangling when you can onfield dps bennett with no er reqs?

[@MrGoodra17]

@@georgezhang1573 because she does more damage than Bennett

[@georgezhang1573]

@@MrGoodra17 not onfield with her normals. Bennett does a decent amount of damage spamming skill, and the decreased er requirements let you build more damage

[@MrGoodra17]

@georgezhang1573 my Bennett has lv1 skill with healer build, so my xl with primordial jade spear does way more damage EDIT: she has 100% burst uptime anyway with 68/168 and 200 er

[@ouka6686]

Sorry for leaving a bit of an essay response, I agree with the sentiments you are having with this video, but I feel like you did not convey things clearly, and overly downplayed the National units just to up-play the point you vaguely tried to make. This is the kind of topic you just can't simply cover in 8 minutes, since you need to discuss a LOT of aspects of Genshin, and the idea of Gacha games being about account cultivation over immediate returns. Also seriously, to make your "National is a bad team" you came off as ALL THE UNITS in National are bad. Again, this topic is just way too nuanced for 8 minutes. == I regularly start new accounts just so I can keep up to date with my new player experience sentiments, and you have a gigantic black hole in your reasoning since you can literally save starglitter to guarantee 3/4s of traditional National, and recommending people AGAINST this team is saying "Don't save to eventually get a C6 Xingqiu" or "Never use Xiangling, she's not worth it". National is strong because it's a universal end-goal everyone will eventually get, that does not require any specific re-runs even for the 4-stars, on any banner. Sucrose does not need any cons, only C1 for smoother rotations. Bennett only realistically needs C1, C5 vs C1 scaling isn't that significant. And Xingqiu can still frontload damage even without his C4, and his C6 does not "Give more hydro application", it just changes his hydro application window from his swords. I'll write Xingqiu out in Binary for you so you can understand it better, 1 = Hydro is applied from rain swords: Pre C6: 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 - no hydro at all from swords 1 0 0 loop (5/6 allow vape, in loop get chain of 5 in a row) C6: 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 - double app 0 0 - no hydro 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 - double app loop (5/6 allow vape, in loop chain of 5 in a row) Or in other words, if looking at pure hydro application in single target; They both have 1/6 sword waves not apply hydro at all, which is why his sword orbital application is so important. What you actually lose from C6 Xingqiu is more off-field dmg and lower ER requirements. The actual important constellation for Xingqiu's hydro application is C2, since it makes his burst last longer which means more total hydro application. === About unit cons: Mentioned above, but Xingqiu only realistically needs C2. At extreme investment his frontloaded is better than Childe, but you don't NEED extremely high frontloaded dmg which also isn't "Impractical" to do, you literally just Q > Sucrose N1 E > Xiangling Q e > Sucrose Q > Xingqiu E. You still catch particles on him, you just move the CD on his skill. Plus you can funnel to your Xingqiu even with off-element particles if you're that far behind on ER. I do this even with Fav on XQ, you don't need the quad either-- Anyway, the 50% skill dmg bonus is nice but you don't absolutely need to have it to still get value from vaping your XQ E. Literally free dmg is still literally free dmg Xiangling pre-C4 is perfectly fine with Kitain Cross Spear, it gives EM, 12-27 energy per rotation, and improves Guoba dmg (which actually has almost same dmg as pyronado per hit). You also don't need her C6, it does nothing for her personal dmg. Like, if you just need pyro and off field pyro at that, Xiangling is still the best unit for it, AND you get 1 completely free. I love Xiangling and use her frequently in all kinds of team comps, not just National Pyronado vape Bennett does not need C5 or C6 either, he only requires C1. The damage from C1 to C5/C6 isn't significant enough to warrant not using him. Also, one of his best options is Sapwood Blade, which is completely free since craftable and you only realistically need R1 unless playing Burn-Melt Sucrose also only really needs C1, and that's specifically just for smoother rotations. All of her other cons don't do anything significant for national, and it would be easier to argue C6 Sucrose is why Taser is a harder team to recommend since her buffs from cons are more relevant. But even then, she functions fine at C0 Also Sucrose is the only part of Sucrose National that doesn't show up in the Starglitter shop. You can plan your account around getting these constellations passively, and having a well built XL, Bennett, XQ, and Sucrose (less-so due to more anemo options but she's still strong and flexible) should still be something to work towards. However, since Sucrose is the only unit on the team you're not guaranteed to get, it's why she's the most replaceable part. The actual national core is just XQ, XL, Bennett, hence Raiden National, Chongyun National, Heizou/Kazuha, etc === You also used examples of 2 limited 5-star only character teams that would benefit from Xingqiu as an example of why National is bad for new accounts, who most likely do not have those units. You literally crossed up your own messaging. It's okay to be biased against National because it's obnoxious how long this team has been one of the most consistent teams in the game, but dude. You really think people who are starting with a new account that would struggle to build National would be able to run Nilou Nahida? Their last re-run was half a year ago, on the same banner. Like if we're hitting the phase of "Don't use this team, use this team with limited 5-star characters instead", any recommendation for new players goes right? Don't play National, Bennett is needed for Raiden hypercarry. Don't play National, Xingqiu supports Yoimiya too and she also is single target focused like National team. Don't play national, Sucrose and Xingqiu get better AoE in Taser with Fischl + Beidou. But don't play taser either, Fischl is better with Yae Miko in aggravate. The better point to have made is "Don't just tie the national units to just national, Sucrose is a strong and flexible anemo that can use many different catalysts for different roles like Prototype Amber for healing, Hakushin for Supercharge, TTDS for buffing, Sac for grouping and particle generation, etc". Like, Xingqiu is fortunate he's so strong and completely free to get, his existence elevates so many different team comps and he makes many on-fielders feel better to use, not just his value to bloom and vape comps, but his interruption resist and dmg reduction makes him feel good with units like Itto, or on-field dps Xinyan since his swords make her shields actually not be made out of paper. The other important point to have made if this was aimed for new players is "Don't write off 4-star units as being inferior". I think the only directly bad 4-star is Kaveh, and that's because his intended role is bad so his only playstyle is worse Al-Haitham. Even Candace has a niche only she can fill, even if it's only so Yaoyao can make blooms during her burst === What this video SHOULD have been more about if it was for new players, should have been about the concepts of what makes National so strong, and pivot into how you can use those concepts for more effective team building by understanding the roles of each part of the team. At its core, National is the fundamental Hypercarry team, with Buffer/support, enabler, battery, off-field dps and on-field/main DPS roles. For example, XQ is the off-field DPS and enabler, while Tartaglia National is the on-field enabler and Xiangling becomes the off-field DPS You can do a similar concept with Aggravate; Fischl is off-field DPS + battery, anemo for VV support, dendro for support, and your on-field electro is both driving Fischl A4 while doing dmg. Or with burn-melt: Since you can't reliably VV cryo in burn teams, you're better off with either double dendro/pyro or using a buffer that won't take reactions like Shenhe or Yun Jin. This is relevant at time of writing because Wriothsley's most consistent team comp at C0 is Burn-Melt, and there are definitely people that started Genshin specifically for him. Again, I agree with the sentiment of the video. But the only thing you really said is "Don't use National, it takes too long to build" while then using counter examples that are only possible with older accounts, just isn't useful advice. Btw I have a top 4% vape Xiangling build on Akasha, and I regularly just use her as a EM stack burgeon trigger. EM diminishes on investment, so 700 with ER sands isn't that far off from 1000, but off-field no ICD pyro application is useful forever. Also since I main Ayato, need to dig back a bit; your national gameplay execution is REALLY bad. Maybe don't reccomend the team because it's quickswap heavy (Ping reliant) and actually mechanically hard

[@wilburforce8046]

Unlike your HB video your criticisms on investment requirements actually make a lot of sense. Well done. Less rage bait more factual video.

[@butterfer0808]

Yeah the HB one was presented with somewhat incomplete reasoning. At the end of the day, the more engagement you get, the more people you get to watch your actual good videos. Thanks for sticking around.

[@wilburforce8046]

@@butterfer0808 It was also just kinda wrong/exaggerated lul. Gilded Mainstat pieces that can role into bleh substats and be fine, are in fact cheaper then your typical emblem Mainstat PLUS the extra rng of decent substats. Nobody sells cheap HB then farms flop lol. Gilded and off peices while your bagging that deepwood. EM main stats being rare is in fact, less rng then the multi layered rng experience that is substat hell. This is proven by Math if you ever look up at the absolutely scummy artifact data in this game. Genshin will quite literally do its damnedest to make sure you don’t get good crit substats for your talent scaler. The difference between a bleh Kuki build, and a good one isn’t that serious. But the difference between a bleh emblem Raiden and good one , is night and day. Mine for example hits like a wet noodle after years of farming. Even when HB is a mere half of your team damage, skipping all that RNG on at least one really good sub Dps like Kuki is huge. As for units like XQ and Yelan, almost every single team in the damn game wants to build them well anyway, that is not exclusively a hyper bloom problem. I get your approach in the video, which was trying to stop all the hyper bloom glazing, but I do think you took it a step too far and started just spreading misinformation. Hyperbloom is not so strong that it can save you instantly from Genshin’s building bullshit, but saying it is in line with other teams in regards to investment is Goofy.

[@blinddig7525]

​@@butterfer0808bro just admitted to posting misinformation online i respect the grind.

[@MereleFerele]

It's super funny to see this. I played back at launch and quit until recently, and I still remember when these characters were considered mid at best. You know why? Because at launch, no one had their constellations, and they kinda suck at c0! Sucrose missing her extra skill charge, Xiangling's burst not lasting very long (and doing much less damage), Benny not even giving his ATK buff if you're under 70% HP... so now that "everyone" has them c6 they've forgotten what these characters are actually like for newbies. It's such a shame that Abyss advice is basically non-existent, because everyone just says "abyss ez build 4 stars". Of course it's easy, your Xiangling has more resin invested into her than literally all the resin that's ever existed on my account.

[@yavvivvay]

Huh 4stars exist below c6? But seriously, I'm using Rational and it feels off... should i rebuild for raiden hypercarry? But my nouvi hyper wants a kazuha and i can't clone kazuha...

[@la_dose5206]

It's a newcomer trap in account development. Another newcomer trap is the Sucrose taser hype. Also needs constellations, also a worse use of support 4*, also not a good way of reaching Beidou's potential, etc.

[@denzel4341]

My national team clearing the abyss with the same artifacts used since 2.0: LMAO NO “Just build a better team” just farm and roll good artifacts from the new domain for these new teams! Oh you still havent gotten a crit rate/crit damage piece from the new domain since release? JUST LOOT BETTER

[@chriscain7333]

Well the thing is, you will need to build them up sooner than later, you need them anyway, may as well just invest resin into them

[@evaunit0195]

Its so funny when bennet profile pic clears abyss on stream with the "best team in the game" and has a worse clear time, more resets and cringe energy problems compared to my c0 hutao with dragons bane. I remember him doing viewer abyss once and he didn't use national despite having all pieces because XL wasn't c4 xdddd.

[@henta.i.3838]

So hyperbloom and national are out; can't wait to find out what other teams we should not recommend to new players.

[@starfield19]

lmaooo

[@ComparativelyRegular]

Raiden Hypercarry

[@Uryvichk]

Nilou Bloom. "People will tell you to just pull Nilou and use Barbara, Dendro Traveler, and a Lantern Rite Yaoyao, but Barbara will just get you frozen in the Deepwood domain!" I dunno I'm not very good at this.

[@ookamishin402]

Bro, sorry but this take is just way too bias. I can tell that your perspective is affected by your whaling. Saying national is expensive and mediocre in the same sentence in wich you recomend using Bennett with Wriothesley? Brah c'mon, really? Pre C4 Xiangling does dmg, C4 just makes her really really good, the same for Xingqiu, they are extremely good characters and for sure above most of the other 4* characters, not having their best const just makes them good characters, and for the constellation dependency, bro, almost all chacarters are even worst XD, Faruzan, Gorou, Sara are characers that are practically useless pre C6 and actually harder to get than XL and XQ, Thoma is higly dependant on C4 for energy, Beidou and Fischl are just the same than XL and XQ, Kaeya and Rosaria, i mean, Kaeya doesn't have cons XD, and Rosaria's cons don't make her better than C0 XL or XQ, i don't mention other characters cuz i think the rest of them are just a bunch of useless trash, there are some exceptions that are decent supports at C0 like Yao Yao, Kirara and a few more but im not gonna mention every character. For the team building, ur recomending to new players to pull for characters like Alhaitham to use Xingqiu and Lyney to use Xiangling and Bennett, lets be real, the same way you recomended that, wich by the way will be missing a loot of dmg by not having Nahida and Kazuha or cons in XL and XQ too, you can also pull lets say, Alhaitham+Nahida and have national in one side and Alhaitham spread on the other, i can give you more examples but this is already too long :v. You say people that recomend national do it cuz have been playing for a long time, you can say the same about you, do you really think that getting the 5* you want and or his VERY C6 dependant 4* dedicated niche suport is easy or fast? Bro you can be waiting for the characters you want or need for months or even years, every time the reruns are longer apart. Yes, using Tartaglia for international is better and i prefer him too, but the Xingqiu variant is just a good team that can be objectively more f2p friendly than others, and can be build on 4* characters only, you can even buy from the store the much needed con that have been avoiding you for a long time. And for the other side there are many good teams that don't use any of this characters so they are not necessarily a waste together. Also, who advises people to only play national and pure hyperbloom in abyss?XD People that recomend that is for very early game accounts, so maybe they get some primos in abyss. Why would you play Genshin if you are not pulling for characters? PD: In the vid you showed the Tartaglia variant full whaled with C2 Kazuha and Freedom Sworn, then the poor Xingqiu variant, that's not fair, off course is gonna stay way behind, is a decent and accessible 4* only f2p team, not a whale speedruning team. I have some takes. Pulling for Wrio to play him with Xiangling and Bennett like you recomended, it's a waste cuz Tartaglia internat is just better and more flexible, like you said, why would you want them wasted in a mediocre team? Pulling for Cyno is a HUGE waste cuz he uses a loot of Alhaitham's best teammates just to be way worst in every possible aspect, like you said, why would you want those chacarters wasted in a mediocre main dps? Man i like your vids, and the previous STOP recommending was nice, but you have to admit this one is bias af.

[@luminous3558]

National recommenders are time whales. Do you know how much it takes to get cons on 4 different 4*s in the current banner environment. Even with the glittershop you are looking at a year of pulling on banners you might not want the 5* from just to build a cope team to clear abyss.

[@ookamishin402]

@@luminous3558 In national you only need cons on 2 characters, C6 Xingqiu and C4 Xiangling, on XL you only need to pull 4 cons cuz they give you the character for free, Sucrose works perfectly at C0 and her bis weapon is TTDS how's that for f2p friendly?, and Bennett C1 is not that big of a deal, if you don't get hit a loot you don't even need it, or just build him for healing and he will heal you to 70% in a sec. It's very hard to get cons on any 4* character, but this two are objectively easier, 1rst of all cuz they appear on banners more often than most of the other 4*s, generally they rerun a 4* the same element than the limited character, hydro and pyro are the dominant elements on 5* limited character also having some of the best characters in the entire game, so most people pull for them, this leading to making them easier to get with out having to risk getting a not so good character, like it happened to a friend, he got Cyno pulling for Kuki and Wanderer pulling for Faruzan and he still haven't got even close to their C6, and trust me, you want those C6. 2nd: Even though the glittershop takes time, it is a life saver and a sure thing. Also, there are characters like Sara, Faruzan and Gorou that are near imposible to get cons with out getting the one specific 5* they are always paired up with. Im playing since 2.0 and still only have C3 Sara, 2 of those cons are from the standard banner btw XD, i have risked pity on every Raiden rerun trying to get Sara, but only about 50 pulls or so cuz i don't want cons on Raiden. The same for Wanderer, i got him and his C1 trying to get C6 Faruzan for my Xiao and i don't even like the flying f&ck%r, still waiting on her C6 btw :(. Im not sayin it's the best team in the game or anything, but it is a fact that most people get this characters and their cons relatively easier than most other 4*s, and if needed it is still a pretty decent team, one of the most used teams in the game is international wit Tartaglia, here you just change him for Xingqiu if you don't have him, that's it,in the other side you can still use a none Bennett or Xingqiu team, in this days there are a loot of those, damm, you can even do use a Xingqiu team, just use Yelan or Furina :v.

[@ryzhik9608]

@@ookamishin402 Bro, ain't no way you are recommending a C0 TTDS Sucrose to new players. Look, I don't care how much ppl want to cope, Sucrose is clunky as hell, using TTDS on your team is a way to increase the amount of mindf0cks you have to go through. If you swap on the wrong character - there goes your buff. If the enemy ran away from your burst center - your ass is not swirling. And also, endless energy issues, my goat! 6 seconds of burst uptime is basically nothing. Sucrose WANTS those cons, because without them not only she is clunky, she is not doing anything in the team aside from EM share that looks good on paper but is not enough in practice. And pre-C5 Bennett is coping for the new players. Sorry, he just is.

[@ookamishin402]

​@@ryzhik9608 Bro, what are you talking about? Not recomending TTDS cuz it increases the mindfucks you have to go through? She just needs to do N1-E when guoba is on the field and swap to Xiangling, that's all you need to do to get double swirl and give TTDS to XL, that's simply the right way to play it, you just have to learn the rotation like in any other team. Swaping to the wrong character just means you don't know how to play properly. By not using TTDS on Sucrose ur lossing a looooot of dmg, also, her C6 just gives you 20% dmg bonus, and you don't wanna use it anyways cuz it steals vapes from XL. Pre C5 Bennett cope? from C1 to C5 it's like a 1-2% dmg increase XD, Boy, you really don't know anything about meta and how the dmg formula works do you?

[@ryzhik9608]

@@ookamishin402 Because national team works like clockwork, surely you don’t want to swap between your characters to battery them, if course not. These characters don’t have energy issues, surely. 80 burst cost is a fucking nothing am I right? Every new players memorize their rotations by heart and count the seconds in their head to know when exactly to swap on a character. You know, there’s also a hidden passive in the game where if you play National as a new player the energy refunds itself like in a trial run, source: trust me, bro Tell these fairytales to someone who is buying it. There’s a reason why nobody plays Sucrose in this day despite how much people want others to think she is on par with Kazuha. There’s a reason she is losing to a Barbara in terms of usage rates even with her popularity in meta community. 2% my ass, it’s a whole 3 levels to his burst, I don’t need damage formulas if I can look at the number and see the increase, that’s 18% bonus. I have an account with a C4 Bennett, I can literally FEEL the difference and see the results in clear times.

[@Silver-tb7hf]

I've been playing for almost a year now, and I've been able to get 35 stars (hopefully 36 for the first time with a little optimization) this abyss. Last reset I tried using Tartaglia International, and even though my characters are all decently to well invested on that team, it felt terrible. I swapped to a half-assed hyperbloom team (DMC Xingqui Kuki Fishl) and immediately got to 35 after not even being able to clear the first chamber with 3 stars prior. By Xingqui has a garbage crit ratio, my kuki has no em goblet, and my fishl had a level 70 stringless on. National is incredible, but unlike hyperbloom, I takes high investment. I used to agree with the last video in this series, but after such a massive shift in my performance by swapping to hyperbloom, I think it is most certainly the best, lowest investment team in the game, and everyone with access to kuki (mine was at c0) who is interested in clearing abyss fast should use it. This video is correct though, but it won't stop me form getting that international team upgraded.

[@justinosometimesaugusto]

I agree absolutely. His last video was straight up misinformation claiming that DMC, barbara, kuki couldn't clear. They absolutley can. This one is a lot more true

[@yuandazheng3403]

I agree its overrated, but I think investing in supports that are better in other teams is a feature not a bug. You don't necessarily have predictability over what your next 5 stars will be, so its good to have universally good supports built first. If you must blame someone though, its gotta be TenTen =]

[@WrathfulPride]

That Venti and Bennett profile pic line I’m dead ☠️

[@sadelien339]

I agree with you when it about the National team with only 4* , but outside of that idk tbh , National team isn't just a name of one team but a team that has xiangling/ Bennett on it , this team is over recommended because somehow it suits any dbs 5* who doesn't have a team yet, and sometimes it the best team for many other bds characters, I mean c'mon you used "childe" national in your video, did you get my point?

[@IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIX]

butterfer standing at the mirror... "candyman...."

[@Camelia437]

I only play a national team because I want to play Tartaglia and Kazuha. If one day, we get a better Xiangling without energy issue, I will change my team. I didn't played national in abyss before I get Tartaglia + Kazuha. It took me 9 months to get them.

[@animatedamons470]

I seriously hate this team but I'll admit it did get me to the end of floor 12 after like 3 attempts cause managing the teams energy was such a pain

[@beanswater]

Dafuq is this national team slander?? It's one thing to complain about something with correct facts but this is just mostly misinformation. I'm not gonna pick it apart piece by piece because i don't really care that much about this topic but I'll just say one thing about your main argument: the need for constellations. NO, you don't need it at all. I've 36*d abyss without key constellations on a f2p alt i started, it's still pretty strong. This alt is something i neglect all the time by the way (since i use it to collect those billet boxes from the returner event), they barely have any weapons and farmed emblem just enough to get them decently geared and just strongboxed the leftovers for nobless and vv set. Also, i even saw one guy here on KZbin a while ago clear abyss when they just stacked as much ER as possible, look it up.

[@butterfer0808]

... based...

[@samuel9071]

No way bro said "why use bennett xiangling in national when lyney and wriothesley teams exist". Its just a video for the sake of disagreeing with the popular take

[@butterfer0808]

Aren't those teams just better?

[@tso6267]

Love to see the community (even if that is a couple thousands people for now) starting to demystify the long standing "godly", "op", "broken" teams/characters

[@needless2say776]

Bro is speaking from personal experience on that profile pic mention 💀

[@xenatolesavant7582]

If you want to speedrun the abyss on a new account it will always on the banner you pop on, no matter what (no matter what there will also be an Hyperbloom team kekw)

[@kikko284]

Wdym national (noncope, so C4+ XL etcetera) is worse than other teams like (if I understood correctly) Hu Tao vape or some Neuvillette teams? Do you mean to say the dps is worse, or…? And do you have a source for this? Thanks!

[@SeanValenciaaa]

NAWT THE VENTI OR BENNETT PROFILE PIC 😭😭

[@valt4462]

Meanwhile those unit you have mention are collect dust since 2.0(international comp) except bennet i did use him until sumeru release there all c6.

[@IceCap-puccino]

Definitely can understand your points, though find it a little funny my first 36 clear was with c0 Rational (c0 raiden, c0 xq, c1 bennett, c1 xiangling) so I guess my experience is a bit different, granted 2.5 was my first clear and I suppose abyss is harder now. Not sure what teams would've been better back then when dendro didn't exist. Kinda unsure what I would suggest to a new player these days.

[@AzureDrag0n1]

My first 36 star clear also used Tartaglia, c0 Sucrose, c1 Bennett, and c2 Xiangling. However this was a long time ago when Abyss was quite a bit easier. It was after I got Diluc on Albedo banner back in 1.2. Although I think I did not 36 star until 1.3 or 1.4. Diluc + Xingqiu was my other core team with 2 flex spots depending on floor.

[@Justin-ud9rr]

No way that team would clear the current abysses. New players have it a lot harder now. Their best bet would be to get two broken 5 stars like nahida and neuvellete and build teams around them if they dream of clearing abyss in less than 6 months.

[@IceCap-puccino]

@@Justin-ud9rr Yeah that team worked for me til 3.1(cus I got XL c4) with yae second half. I think neuv-furina accounts could definitely clear without much issues in these current abyss lineups given 6 months tho

[@deem05]

THIS VIDEO IS AMAZING!

[@wall6587]

"Unlike some venti or bennett profile pics" Dude 💀

[@ryzhik9608]

he is right

[@rikukun1]

Hey bro love your content As someone who started just this august and was told the same shit about the OPness i really appreciate this My question is what about kaeya? Another one of the 4 star many say is good for melt teams

[@butterfer0808]

Kaeya sucks. Don't use him unless you know what exactly you are doing.

[@rikukun1]

@@butterfer0808 daum that was faster than i expected I actually recommended it to my friend who asked me bout this and told him hell yeaa go for it(he started not even a month ago) gonna have to correct it 😬

[@fedark_gg4315]

i started building a national team for raiden but i ended up getting ayato+keqing in the same 10 pull (planning to use flex ayato and aggravate keqing) now i don't know what do i do with them. do i continue building them or what? i stopped building to build keqing and crown my eula's burst instead and stopped my plans for raiden

[@kawaiimika7974]

Play national with Ayato

[@-toriizaka46]

this just sounds like "5 stars are better than 4 stars!" which is true lol, but why is the solution to 'national is bad' is to just tell people to get a 5 star? if you're argument was to say 'learn how to team build with what you have' then this would be a better vid. this vid is about people suggesting to others who are new to the game what/who to build, but your advice is impractical - '5 stars are better, so just pull for them'. obviously this is true, but primo's do not allow this. and you still have to build them fully, just maybe now you don't need consts.

[@khazisaad9102]

Especially you flip and jstern 💀💀💀💀

[@butterfer0808]

Gayge

[@faerieinwonderland]

The only time I use Xiangling is when I play mono pyro with Lyney or Klee

[@butterfer0808]

That's her best use case imo

[@Redheisenberg]

Do one for c0r0 tao and c0r0 raiden compared to c1r1 tao and c2 raiden which are most owned early constellations and sigs that warp their perception

[@GlaciusTotalus]

I'm still going to build Hyperbloom(actually hyperfridge) and national for my AR36 account lol. Just because Hyperbloom can fit 2 archons and National can become Rational. It's just efficient for me.

[@alexanderginger754]

I don't completely agree with everything you said here, but to add to that, in an optimal national team you need to have nobless on XQ and instructor on Bennett, which is a very weird thing to recommend to a beginner. Also it's a bit hard to play - in fact, I recommended this team to my friend who's not even remotely a beginnner anymore, but he was struggling to funnel particles and do a proper rotation with guoba swirl. That's because he doesn't do abyss much, but at this point why would I recommend a team that he struggles to play?

[@neildelossantos7204]

Having instructor pieces built isnt really that weird to suggest

[@alexanderginger754]

@@neildelossantos7204 i just think there's bettter sets to invest into as a beginner (dendro sets, emblem domain, or whatever set your main dps uses)

[@beastgamer2208]

​@@alexanderginger754instructor isn't something anybody farms It's just there in your inventory and you just need to lock good ones

[@alexanderginger754]

yeah but you gotta level them@@beastgamer2208

[@Yanick_th]

@@alexanderginger754 instructor is a great set for dendro teams especially for beginners

[@Ottobon]

I think we are past this but agree with the sentiment. Ideal world people recommend Xiangling/National because they want to play it. Will say that sometimes I think Kuki has overtaken this spot, but she's fine at C0 with whatever mixed EM mainstat artifacts so the case for it even if I overstated by some as if again "it's the only way to play" is less concerning.

[@joaoguilhermedb]

I completely agree that sucrose national will probably underperform in the hands of a new player compared to most 5* hypercarry teams (both because the team is harder to play and the constellation problem). But something that is worth mentioning is that you will never regret investing in these units compared to other 4*. At least 1 one them will be used in almost all teams in the game, with some exceptions of course and that will depend from account to account. And as long as you (unfortunately) keep playing genshin, you will use these characters. Also the constellation problem is kinda mitigated by the starglitter shop (copium). Other than that, great video my dude.

[@nk30020]

Imo Rational is way more worshipped & overrated than National.

[@butterfer0808]

Rational at least has a damage dealer in it that doesn't need constellations.

[@pops1cle187]

@@butterfer0808but sucrose doesn’t need constellations, while rational does suck with pre c4 xiangling (less reliant on XQ thoguh)

[@ayzeee9855]

Dude you're like the anti-zajef

[@butterfer0808]

Not really lol. A lot of the takes that I have a problem with do coincidentally stem from him, but I have nothing against him personally.

[@ayzeee9855]

@@butterfer0808 yeah I don't think it's targeted i just think it's funny

[@taqresu5865]

Honestly I only got Bennett about a week ago with Starglitter, and I still don't have Xingqui, and I've already completed Fontaine's Act 5, so even if I wanted to build National, I wouldn't even be able to. Especially because I don't really have Constellations for Xiangling or Sucrose. Instead, I'm building up Neuvillette. He's C0, but I like how he plays, and I'm making good progress.

[@butterfer0808]

Neuvillette will serve you well!

[@taqresu5865]

@@butterfer0808 He already is. I have him at level 80 with a full Marechaussee Hunter (still trying to pull for some better substats), and his talents are currently 8/6/6 (I need Neuvi's final ascension to improve his first talent further). My current team is Neuvi, Fischl, Venti, and Diona. I don't have Zhongli or Kazuha, so I had to find a shield and swirl alternate. I'm still working the rest of the team too (fortunately Marechaussee Hunter and Golden Troupe are in the same domain).

[@insertxiv5519]

Pretty reasonable take. I have no idea why I watched this, but it was a good vid. Day one player and I have 10+ five star c6s.

[@shantanushrivastava9981]

I am a day 1 player, and have been clearing abyss since 1.6 patch, and my Xiangling is only level 70 without any artifacts or even weapon. I don't even have a R0 Catch for her. She reached level 70 AFTER they introduced free wish system from character ascension. Same goes for Sucrose. In the beginning I did not feel the need to use her because I got Klee on day 1 of her first banner, and by the time I got usable constellations for Sucrose or Xiangling(around 2.2-2.3 iirc), I had already built two super teams for 33-36 stars abyss runs. Granted I got lucky because I got Klee, Zhongli(yes unbuffed Zhongli) and Albedo in quick succession, but still my second team was Razor,Fischl,Rosaria and Sucrose/Barbara for my first ever abyss clear. And I loved Hu Tao since the day I saw her leaks, so I waited patiently for her. And I think Xiangling was also on Hu Tao banner, which made me able to get C4 Xiangling but by then I already had a ready made team for Hu Tao, as I already built Zhongli, Albedo and Xingqiu. So this idea of National team being the most f2p friendly team is not true unless you whale from the beginning, which obviously is a paradoxical statement because a f2p will never whale. People often confuse rarity with availability, which of course is false. My advice has always been to pull for a great 5* character and build around them. It does not matter if they are DPS or Supports, because either of them will hugely benefit your account, rather than waiting to get lucky for some constellation of a 4*. However don't ever pull for 5* healer early on, not even Kokomi.

[@yeokaiwen4196]

Nice video! Very provocative in your language (not a diss, I find it entertaining) and you bring up a good discussion what we think new players should do vs what is actually achievable for said new players. I also find that many genshin impact content is mostly made from content creators who have heavily invested in the game both in money and time, so when ppl spread this kind of advice without taking into consideration the limitations newer players have, eSPECIALLY f2p ones, it's just useless and very frustrating.

[@butterfer0808]

Ay I appreciate it!

[@duplicitous0169]

I remember trying to use C0 Xingqiu when I started playing the game. I wasn’t fortunate enough to pull a Fav or Sac sword, so there were times when 300+ ER wasn’t enough as a solo hydro. People complain about Faruzan being an energy black hole pre C6 when Xingqiu has been in the game since 1.0. If Xingqiu isn’t C6, I’d rather just pull for some of the 5 star hydro characters and not bother with him.

[@princemannic]

Xq does not compare to faruzan energy issues she takes more field time for less particles

[@ziebus904]

​@@princemannicxiangling then...not only you need like 230er but also you need to activly battery her with bennet with like 2 favs... Give faruzan 230er and sucrose and you burst even eazier than xiangling😂

[@skr0gu3]

@@ziebus904idk prolly bc ppl don't wanna/it is suboptimal to funnel for a SUPPORT character??

[@NeithQuill]

And there's me who's unwilling to pull for dps for months since I started and is currently coping with c2 Xingqui, C1 Bennet and Xiangling in the abyss, lol.

[@mrdude5733]

aint no way this isnt rage bait

[@guilhermeferreiraherrera9629]

This, if is a new player the best to recommend is a hyperbloom team, national scale a lot with vertical investiment and is hard to a new player have these 4 star constelations/ good artifacts. Characters like Alhaitham and Neuvillette is also a good sugestion cause you can have mediocre investiment and clear abyss easily.

[@UltraInstinct509]

good video bro whats the background music ???

[@butterfer0808]

Uh I have all of them listed in the discription

[@galerinha]

Yeah I started at beggining of December, patch 4.2. I have C1 xiangling, c1 sucrose, c0 Bennet and no xingq. Xiangling is very expensive to build, although the catch helps she still needs cr, cd, atk, and a bit of em and er to deliver some demage. Basically everything I've been building them separately as my main team is strong enought to hold itself because Navia is carrying them. I thought to wish for Raiden but with nahida close to rerun I think I'm gonna save. Maybe a few more wishes to try to get a C1 Bennet but that's it. The idea is: 1- Navia, GMC, Bennet and xiangling. 2 - nahida, water applicator, kuki and flex (currently sucrose but It could be a spot for future 5* dps)

[@amirgarcia4162]

if you're a beginner, they're much better for you bcz you won't get 5 units early, investing on them on early ar is still worth it cause you'd probably use them in the future, even if you do get a 5 star dps unit, you'd still gonna use them in some comps

[@zanzatbc]

You’re a great genshin creator and you like flip? Man you’re husband material

[@butterfer0808]

😳😳😳

[@SkyNigh-_-]

I think if you truly want to speed run abyss international team the variation of national team but replace xq with childe and sucrose with kazuha it better i think national team just a core for any team like hyperbloom but i dont think it that strong

[@raam2023]

I'd agree with it being a bad idea to solo-focus on getting a national in a new account, but since you're gonna get some of these 4 stars while pulling for 5 stars you want anyway, I'd say it's still recommended to at least have national available, tho international definitely better/more fun.

[@BluecoreG]

What if you never pull 5 star DPS'es? Is a new player falling for a trap if they are told to only pull for 5 star supports. Could they still beat abyss? Pull Nahida, but not Haitham Yelan but not Neuv. Kazuha but not Wanderer. Yae but not Cyno Albedo but not Itto Shenhe... okay maybe not Shenhe.

[@butterfer0808]

Absolutely. It's just a bit harder.

[@_tkd_6689]

While I don't agree with most things in the Hyperbloom video, I do agree with a lot in this one. After almost 1 and a half year of playing this game mostly actively (with breaks), I finally have c4 xiangling, c6 bennet and c6 sucrose, and, get this; I have c5 Xingqiu, almost c6! And yet, what else do I have? Kazuha, Ganyu, Raiden, Alhaitham, Nahida, Hu Tao, Ayaka, Yae, Yoimiya, Kokomi, Zhongli, Ayato Now, I'll admit I've gotten a bit lucky on some of them, and I'm mostly a meta player so I have these 4 stars built, but still, you don't need full 4 star teams because your 4 stars usually won't be good enough to work on their own before you can literally guarantee a banner 5 star. If it's not because of constellations, then because of artifacts. If anything I just disagree that national shouldn't be recommended, because national is the trio of xiangling, bennet and xingqiu, which are otherwise good characters, and there are national variants that have a 5 star in the final slot.

[@butterfer0808]

Ye. The idea is that Xingqiu Bennett and Xiangling all have better uses than whatever this is. If they are useful for your 5 stars, ofc build them

[@hollow.shadow]

My problem with the "just build national and hyperbloom" sentiment is that it puts accounts into a strict linear account progression path. It turns into tunnel visioning into fully dedicating all your resources into teams/units you might not necessarily have to play anyways. Why pull x when Xiangling is free is proof of this flawed line of thinking. Her popular competitive endgame teams generally want ~2 limited 5* units anyways, just like most other competitive teams. Why pretend like Xiangling is so free to play friendly when her endgame teams require just as much if not more investment to be competitive.

[@neildelossantos7204]

How so, when these 4 star units are some of the most versatike supports in the game? Also, usage rate does not indicate strength; she absolutely does not need two 5 stars to be competitive

[@hollow.shadow]

@@neildelossantos7204I dont think Xiangling is flexible at all. She has crippling energy issues and is attached to bennett in her best teams. Her general best teams right now imo are international and Lyney monopyro. The best versions of those teams require 2 5* pulls. You're free to play national/XL but just know that its been 3 years, you can let go now.

[@deonardomendez9426]

This is soo true. And the fact that genshin has 70+ characters, so not every one is gonna like how a character plays or feels. I hate xingqiou and bennett, however i LOVE furina, sara and how they function. The whole "Just build National" people, i just either ignore or just assume they have 0 brain cells 😂 lol

[@Ahmed_ElSayed01]

It's not "why pull x when xianling is free" It's more why pull for yelan (if you don't want her) if xingqiu is free. Units like Xianling and xingqiu make a case of necessity to pull for a unit rather than actually pulling for liking that certain character a lot less common.

[@neildelossantos7204]

@@Ahmed_ElSayed01 yeah seems like the op and a lot of people in the comments are swinging at ghosts - national (and hyperbloom too) are mostly recommended because they mostly utilize versatile supports that can help your account almost no matter what direction you want to take it, not that it's the end all be all of abyss clears.