Stop Signs Suck (...and how to fix them)

It seems we have been using stop sign far too much. Not only in Vancouver but throughout North America. Today I give my two cents on what the state of stop signs are in our city and some things we can do to make them better.
CBC Vancouver: • How to safely navigate...
Tom Scott: • Why this British cross...
Lucas Magalhães: • All Directions Green (...
0:00 Vancouver Police stopping cyclists
0:31 Who actually stops at stop signs
2:16 The Vancouver Stop
2:42 Should we stop when nobody is around?
3:10 What is the Idaho Stop
4:01 Why the Idaho stop is better
5:35 Should drivers Idaho stop?
6:30 Abolish stop signs
7:14 Conclusion
Stop Signs Suck

[@nicthedoor]

If you haven't seen it, check out the CBC Video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZzEpJShlK2fkJosi=L5ScO_BHygvpgqFC

[@rotary65]

The irony of the police stop sign checkpoint is thick. The police actually enforcing the carbrain perceptions of bike riders while blinded to the reality of heavy, large cars rolling through stop signs. They are confirming their car culture biases. Thank you for this.

[@tubro541]

Policemen are trained to be mindless robots just like stop signs and traffic signals. They should have at least gotten a bike cop to enforce or educate about bike related laws.

[@yeyeTF2]

i ride in vancouver all the time. i treat stop signs like a yield sign aka an idaho stop. never had an issue and im always polite to drivers in these instances as i am a driver too. it just feels safer. but i ALWAYS stop completely even when i *think* im alone when im driving. this is because im a cyclist. being a road user who drives and cycles makes me a safer driver and a respectful cyclist.

[@nicktankard1244]

As a European who moved to Vancouver just about 2 years ago, stop signs everywhere still annoy me when driving. Especially 4 way stops in suburban areas. I get what they are trying to achieve, but pretty much all of Europe uses yield signs on non-busy intersections or just priority to the right. It is still safe and nicer for drivers. There is no need to stop if there is no conflict and a low traffic volume. PS That student driver was funny. I had to pass an exam to get a Canadian drivers license even though I have like 18 years of experience driving in various other countries. And on the exam, they expect you to fully stop at every stop sign. But obviously, nobody does that in real life because it is incredibly annoying to fully stop if there is no other traffic or pedestrians in sight.

[@sou-gs5nb]

But I am sure you've seen why we need stops signs with Canadian road design. Our roads are dangerous and incentivize you to drive fast, which is why we need to maintain these signs until we completely overhaul our network.

[@nicktankard1244]

@@sou-gs5nb not sure i agree. Yes the road design is not great. But as this video showed nobody actually uses stop signs correctly anyway. You can replace them with yield signs pretty easily. We also have a lot of speed bumps already to slow down the traffic. And ofc all these small residential roads should be 30 km/h everywhere but just in school zones which people already advocate for.

[@zabmcauley5647]

Adopting the Idaho stop federally would make most intersections safer for cyclists. Seems like a no brainer to me. Negligeable cost as no new signage is required and can implemented very quickly.

[@notisac3149]

I wish there were more roundabouts here in North America, they just make so much sense for plenty of use case, but road design here often defies logic.

[@TheOnlyKontrol]

@@notisac3149😂😂have you use roundabouts here in Canada in busy areas? People don’t know how to use them either way.

[@miles5600]

In the netherlands raised intersections are mainly used in residential areas and at places where a traffic signal isn’t needed. They help a lot yet we are the only country to have implemented this right now. Also just remove all the stop signs and replace them with yield signs. It speeds up trips for the intersection that don’t need a full stop and that’s also what we do here in the netherlands and it works great.

[@nipo2540]

I don't think it's purely a Dutch thing (anymore). I think I've seen this in Belgium too. Is it like this intersection over here: www.google.com/maps/@50.9019147,3.4029239,3a,90y,148.26h,59.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svKkE0fnvd2XjtCmbMf3f2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu ? If so, it is indeed pretty effective!

[@nipo2540]

That link is the first one I thought of but we have many more like that. In Leuven they are even higher: www.google.com/maps/@50.8748667,4.710525,3a,75y,321.21h,82.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1so2NLMH62wMPHoZ5LIekWDQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[@Arjay404]

I wouldn't say get rid of all stops signs, just something like 80-90% of them. In NA stop signs are the default and are placed everywhere, whereas the rule should be that if you are going to put a sign (signs aren't even always needed, because you still have the rule of traffic from the right has priority) that you should use yield signs UNLESS there are visual obstructions that negatively impacts visibility (at which point, you could also consider making the road coming to the intersection that has visibility problems a one way entrance only road.).

[@danieldaniels7571]

Tempe, Arizona has many raised intersections in residential areas.

[@kailahmann1823]

@@Arjay404 primarily get rid of the all-way-stop, which in reality is "the other will stop". Stop signs with an actual obstructed view however need to be enforced, even for cyclists.

[@josevera5094]

Yeah this is annoying. When I was younger my school took us to a police owned bike circuit used to teach children basic traffic rules in a bike. They made me stop at every stop sign. Not only that, but forced me to put my feet on the ground (no stopping and inmediatly going again). The made me hate them so much that day. Even 12 year old me knew that was stupid.

[@bazoo513]

4-way stops are stupid - I never saw them anywhere in Europe. either decide which road has the priority and use yield on the other, or simply "priority on the right" (which might be dangerous is one of the roads _looks_ as it is the main one). Stop sign is only used on intersections with arterial road without clear line of view in both directions.

[@nicktankard1244]

Yeah they still baffle me. This first come first go system is crazy because often cars come at roughly the same time from multiple directions. Priority on the right is a good rule. Gives you a nice default so you just yield without thinking about timing or anything.

[@dsego84]

@@nicktankard1244 when you think about it, first come first go system is always in effect, priority to the right is the resolution when the vehicles come at roughly the same time... I mean if I come 30 secs before you do, I will go ahead even if I have the yield sign, it's because I came before the car on the priority road. the first come first go can also be in effect when there are 4 cars from all 4 directions at the same time and priority to the right doesn't make sense, because everyone has someone on the right :)

[@nicktankard1244]

@@dsego84that is technically true but it’s stretching the definition. If you come like an hour before you can still say it’s first come first go lol. But yeah I meant when it’s so close that humans can’t easily determine in the moment who was first and in what order they should all go. Yield signs and priority to the right solve that for low traffic intersections. If it’s a high traffic intersection there should be a traffic light so people don’t wait forever. Which reminds of anything dumb Vancouver thing. High traffic intersections with pedestrian controlled traffic lights. Sometimes cars have to wait ages on red or just force your way into the traffic. And I’ve seen people get out of their cars and press the beg button. Ridiculous. Just make it a normal timed traffic light during peak hours

[@ChristiaanHW]

@@dsego84 as long as you're able to clear the intersection without breaking the speed limit and the other party (the one that has priority) doesn't have to slow down to let you go first (before your turn), yes. but if this exact situation isn't met you're "braking the law" but that's the beauty about bikes on an intersection, because of the low speeds they are able to swerve around each other with ease and don't really need any signs to tell them who can go first. that's why some intersections in The Netherlands give all cyclist a green light at the same time. cyclist are able to cross safely and it takes less time than 2 (or even 4) different light cycles for them to cross. so thanks to the "all green" everyone at the intersection can get through it quicker.

[@shaunmckenzie5509]

Yup, 4 way stops also don't exist in Australia or New Zealand. The intersection would either be a roundabout, or one of the streets would have priority and the other has to give way (or "yield"). Stop signs arent that common. I found it to be a very bizarre thing when I first drove in the US.

[@youtube7076]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS VIDEO, it puts visuals to a discussion i've been trying to have for years. Those raised center intersections should be built into any residential intersection that doesn't already accommodate a roundabout. And the Idaho stop, brilliant. Car people Literally Cant Understand what its like to be 15 cars back, on a 6 lane road, sandwiched against a curb, at a red light, in the rain/snow, on a bike, where no one sees you or cares, AT ALL.

[@adamnunn3017]

This is a great analysis, and I really like that you mention redesigning our streets to address all road users instead of just cars. Shifting away from car dependancy requires many interdependant changes to society, policy, urban design, and culture. People often resist changes to car dependancy when discussed in isolation, like removing free street parking, but the idea is to do that in conjuction with increased public transit, bike infrastructure, and mixed use zoning, so that you don't need to drive (and park) everywhere! :)

[@kailahmann1823]

And replacing the all-way-stop with a yield enforced by the design even makes driving more pleasant and safe for car drivers. However some people will come with "but emergency vehicles need to blast through!". Simple answer here: No, they don't. They aren't there to kill people, they are there to save people.

[@ambiarock590]

@@kailahmann1823 I saw a couple videos online (I don't have links unfortunately) about how cars and their infrastructure affect emergency vehicles. The first video was about how an ambulance struggled to get through a street filled with a dozen cars, while had absolutely no issues getting through a crowd of seemingly over a thousand people in a dense mass. Cars are what holds ambulances up, not cyclists, not pedestrians, not the road infrastructure. The second one was how a European ambulance hopped onto a separated bike path to get around cars. There were about 4 people on the bike path and they just took 2 steps to the side and allowed it to pass with zero issues. Cyclists are not in sound proof boxes so can hear an ambulance coming far earlier than a driver would, and the necessary maneuvers to get out of the way are so much easier on a bike than in a car. Good cycling infrastructure literally saves lives, and helps prevent people from illness. During my trip to Amsterdam last year I saw an ambulance flying down the tram tracks. Lanes that ban cars are really good for emergency vehicles.

[@LMvdB02]

the problem is the overuse of stop signs where yield signs are appropriate

[@greek9244]

In the UK we have no signs. Only on more main roads were we have either a stop sign or a yield sign. But residential or smaller streets don’t have signs but just a yield marking on the road… so much better. Some streets don’t even have markings due to low car traffic or no car traffic etc.

[@shraka]

Road painted signage is much more effective than signs. We really should use fewer signs so the ones that remain get obeyed more often.

[@stevecarter8810]

We have such a strong culture of priority and give way based on the ranking of the road that we impose it on junctions with no such relationship in place.

[@DanielBrotherston]

There's literally one stop sign that I can think of in the city of 150,000 that I live in in the Netherlands. There's also a cultural difference in goals. Here the goal of policing/policy/education is to minimize harm, rather than improve compliance with rules. And this is where you start to see NJB's point here...how do you change an entire society's frame of mind.

[@kailahmann1823]

I bet, the one is either a Y intersection or a road coming out of a tunnel or similar ;)

[@kailahmann1823]

oh, and there are situations, where you really fall back into "punish the drivers", especially, when you'd think, the road already yells at you "THIS IS 30!" and drivers still blast through at 50… curvy, less than 6 meters width (despite a bus line!), kindergarden and elementary school on one side, parked cars (half in the drive lane) on the other, a speed display and three 30 signs… So what else do some jerks need?

[@hyperquasar]

The chaos that is generated from pedestrian first laws is insane. The vancouver stop as you called it is so very annoying both as a pedestrian and biker.

[@asebmer2]

Thank you for this video!!! I think of the idea of considering stops as yields (for bikes) every single day. In Montreal we even have stop signs on bike lanes. Obviously, no one stops. Great video!

[@shaunmckenzie5509]

4 way stops seems to be an almost solely North American thing. They dont exist here in Australia. Thought it was very weird first time i drove in america.

[@1drun1]

I have such safe intersection, that you suggested, near my house in Warsaw city Poland. Traffic is very intensive in my area, but this huge hump always slows them and it feel so safe to cross the street.

[@kailahmann1823]

yep. I have one here as well - and I have *never* seen somebody speeding though it.

[@UltravioletNomad]

If most motorist already incorrectly assume that Cyclist are pedestrians at crossings, then we should give cyclist the protection and flexibility of pedestrians while still enforcing best practices for use of roadways.

[@Tonstie]

I go through the all sides green traffic light you showed and it's not a standard in the Netherlands. Other cities have tried it and people didn't understand the rules. There are no rules. You just make sure that you don't collide with other bikes. So this type of traffic light is only used in some Dutch cities. We also use stop signs very sparingly. They're only placed at junctions with bad visibility. Yield signs are used to indicate streets and roads that have right of way and if there are no yield signs, then the vehicle on the right has right of way

[@peter_smyth]

The UK has very few stop signs, they're reserved for a few awkward junctions with poor sightlines, and road safety is much better than the US and Canada. If one road at a crossroads is the main road, then it's obvious who should wait for who, and if there's nobody else around, then nobody needs to stop.

[@BalaenicepsRex3]

Excellently made! This deserves a lot more views

[@ManifestoConfrm]

Ahhhh, The Vancouver stop. It's the worst. Take your right of way, I also don't want to be in front of you.

[@Korina42]

They're commonly called "niceholes"; they're annoying *and* unsafe.

[@ahamjax]

After I spent some time in Europe my perspective on stop signs completely changed. Now I only stopped if somebody was there first.

[@ric4397]

Not to mention, cars can also have long bonnets, so a driver's line of sight can't get as close to the line and get a wider view of the intersection.

[@johnpflyrc]

I'm British, and a regular visitor to Vancouver. I usually drive and cycle when I'm there - just as I do at home. As others have already said, outside of N.America 4-way Stops for traffic control are pretty-much unheard of. In the UK Stop signs are reserved for use only at junctions where visibility is so bad that a Stop sign is essential. I can only think of 2 Stop signs in my local area - both about 5 km from where I live. In place of a 4-way Stop we'd most likely have one road given priority and the other road would have Give Way signs ('Yield' in N.American terminology.) Alternatively a roundabout may be used, and often that would be a mini-roundabout. Usually a little smaller than the 'traffic circles' in Vancouver, and no more substantial than a slightly domed 'blob of paint' in the road, but with 'give way' road markings before the roundabout. I certainly feel more confortable - both as a driver and cyclist - using a mini-roundabout here in the UK than a 4-way Stop in N.America, though of course that's at least partly due to their relative familiarity.

[@BlackBerryTrees]

Yes i am convinced. Great measure to implement while we work on modifying our most dangerous intersections and change the standard design for all future intersections. Also please run for the city so we can have a competent and rational thinker helping make good choices for the greater good ❤

[@GraemeMacDermid]

You could also look at Europe where STOP signs are rare. Rather most intersections use YIELD and proceed - effectively, Idaho STOPs.

[@tubro541]

I disagree with narrowing the intersections. As a cyclist who rides on the side of the road, I don't want to merge into car traffic at every intersection, as that is dangerous.

[@BenjaminWalburn]

6:20 this car definitely doesn't have a fancy HUD, and generally very few people are distracted by their HUDs. You're thinking of the vertical rectangle that fits in the pocket, not the horizontal one thays functionally hazardous in the interest of safety.

[@kailahmann1823]

I even think, North America abuses stop signs in a way, it encourages ignoring them and makes the roads more dangerous. If yielding is enough to avoid a collision, then only a yield sign should be installed. And stop signs should be limited to the very few locations, where it is really needed for everybody (yes, even cyclists!) to come to a complete stop. And there should absolutely never be an "all way stop", because that's an "all way the other will stop". Take for example one arm of a Y shaped intersection with the other arm having priority. There you can not see around the corner, not even at bike speed. German rules on stop signs are so strict, that even in a convoy every single vehicle has to stop individually (except the police blocks the road, which is the far more common version), while they are allowed to even ignore traffic lights to stay together.

[@MrMaxkingone]

awesome video, thank you

[@leow_se]

As from a European point of view, a 4-way intersection with enough traffic to need any signage but without a priority and non priority direction is just absurd. 4-way stop slows everyone down and is never seen anywhere in Europe, and it is dangerous!

[@user-vo9wd6tx6c]

Idaho making a pro-cycling traffic law is surprising, but very welcome.

[@TeKaMOTO]

3:07 "And I'm sure some of you know where I'm going with this." Me: Yield signs and right or way! Or just remove the signs so everyone yields to the vehicle on their right! Nic: "The Idaho stop." Me: wwhhat.gif

[@boahneelassmal]

priority to the right, in low traffic density neighbourhoods, yield signs as the standard and stop sign at genuinely accident prone spots or intersections where you can't see into the road very well. That's how we do it here

[@Mitchell-me7bp]

It wasn't until late in the video that I realized you have 1.45k subscribers and not 1.45m subscribers! Mega quality content, loved it! Do you happen to have a link to the study you referenced at the end about traffic circles in Vancouver? As a Seattleite I'm curious about their effects as well as my neighborhood's intersections are almost exclusively these and I tend to view them positively on the whole. Let me know if ur able to share that!

[@nicthedoor]

Thank you. This comment was held for review for some reason. Sorry for the late reply. Here is the study: cyclingincities-spph.sites.olt.ubc.ca/files/2018/06/Traffic-Circles-CARSP-2018.pdf

[@Mitchell-me7bp]

super interesting study! thanks for sharing and no worries on the delay. keep up the great work!@@nicthedoor

[@derekjolly3680]

Rolling stop signs is pretty much expected for bikes. Not necessarily blasting though. But if you can see everything early in the morning say, that's not so bad. Rolling stop signs is expected for cars too up to a point. It's about discretion and judgement. Very decent point about the dashboards on cars. It's truly negatively mindblowing what they're doing with the tech and layouts in cars. I think it's marketing on the basis of assuming everyone is a cell phone junkie, therefore make the insides of cars more about digital feedback and similar interactions, and nevermind the obvious consequences for driving safety! My medium sized Toyota pickup is a 2012 so it's got more like an 80s car layout. All the camera stuff and bling doesn't turn a scatter-brained Jiff Mom into a good driver overnight! Frankly I see the roundabouts as a good step and an improvement, especially for cycling, most of the time. It takes away a lot of stop signage and encourages one to take a longer loop on rides.

[@Korina42]

Totally agree; our 2000 Toyota Echo has knobs and dials, making it easy to adjust things without taking your eyes off the road. I thought the point of traffic circles was to eliminate the race to the stop sign. We have a few, and I've ridden my bike safely through them many times. Must investigate that study.

[@joelyons3713]

I saw a guy on an electric scooter doing 50km in traffic. I thought that’s awesome! What a cool guy!

[@BenDurham]

Love love love this.

[@lkj974]

When I was growing up in New Jersey in the 60's and 70's two way stops were standard. I don't think I saw a 4 way stop until I spent a summer in Missouri in my late teens. I have always hated the system of mixed two way and 4 way stops. It has always seemed really dangerous to me. Somehow you are supposed to determine which it is on the fly. And most of us struggle to know what order to go in when there are multiple cars in each of the lanes joined by a 4 way stop intersection.

[@jacnel]

You could also do roundabouts. *Region of Waterloo enters the chat*

[@theepimountainbiker6551]

Ive never seen a car full stop and pause 3 seconds at a Stop sign anyway so what does it matter if a bike doesnt, so long as its safe to proceed

[@Kattbirb]

I am so glad that Washington state added the Idaho Stop to our bike laws. It's so much safer for cyclists.

[@craighandley7535]

What definition of stop are you using? Would you show us some examples of what qualifies as a stop vs not stopping?

[@4cps777]

Probably the same one that US law is using.

[@nicktankard1244]

Vancouver is like a collection of worst traffic ideas and people disregarding the rules. Stop signs everywhere that drivers ignore anyway. Blinking pedestrian traffic lights with beg buttons which you have to come dangerously close to speeding traffic to push. Right turn on red and drivers not yielding and just going through like it's green for them. Pretty bad for both pedestrians and drivers.

[@tubehead101]

Great video. Excellent analysis. Thank you. I am, however, uncomfortable with the notion of Idaho stops for cars as I think it could lead to too many dangerous situations where yield turns into just blowing through the stop sign. I'm interested also, to know why the vast majority of US states have not followed the Idaho move. Surely they have looked into it and determined that there are concerns. I do like the logic that the less time at an intersection for the more vulnerable user, the better, but there has to be education about what yield means. It does not mean "ignore the stop sign", but it should mean, slow down, look, make sure it is safe to proceed and then continue. All without stopping. I suspect there is the concern that going from stop to yield will open the doorway to just ignoring the stop sign altogether, and that is really unsafe for both cars and cyclists.

[@darkomen7817]

I got nearly run down by some kid in a honda blowing through the stop sign and he decided to get out of his car and attack me. It was on the news and everything.

[@therosijedha]

I think yield signs should replace most stop signs (except of course where there isnt much visibility) yield signs are so much better in my opinion, as drivers wouldnt have to stop, or in some cases slow down, at a lot of intersections. However, i do know how dangerous this would be in an urban environment, so i think the intersection design you showed at the end should be used in most, if not all areas in a city.

[@nicktankard1244]

It's not really that dangerous. I lived in several big European cities, and in all of them, small roads that connect to bigger roads have yield signs instead of stop. Works pretty well, even with limited visibility, if the speed limit is 30 or below. Stops signs exist in Europe, but they are pretty rare, and yet European roads are relatively safe even in big cities.

[@therosijedha]

@@nicktankard1244 Yeah i've heard, i guess you really dont need stop signs if you're only going 30 or so km/h I went to Iceland 2 months ago and i dont remember seeing any stop signs there, there were quite a few roundabouts though which i found very cool Are roundabouts good for pedestrians and bikes?

[@nicktankard1244]

@@therosijedha i was never a cyclist, so don't have any personal experience with that. But for pedestrians, they are pretty safe. In Europe, they usually have crosswalks on each side and yield signs for cars. And since cars can't go straight, they are forced to slow down and pay more attention. So, as a pedestrian, it's easy to cross, and you feel safer because it's like crossing a smaller two-way road instead of a busy intersection where cars can come from any direction. These small ones in Vancouver are not that great, though. It's not a proper runabout.

[@therosijedha]

@@nicktankard1244 ah, alright

[@ChristiaanHW]

@@therosijedha if you have a good roundabout they are really safe for every user. - pedestrians have a crosswalk (we call them zebra crossing because of the lines) where the pedestrian has priority (the right of way). and pedestrians only have to look at one side at to see if cars are really stopping. then they arrive at the "island" between the lanes, and then they cross the 2nd crosswalk and have to look at cars from the other way. - for cyclists it work the same as pedestrians but cyclist have their own lane. this is important because the speed difference between pedestrians and cyclist is a lot, so you want them both to have their own space. - cars (and other motor vehicles) arrive at the roundabout and encounter the crosswalk first, where they have to yield to pedestrians. right after that is the cycle crossing, so if either a pedestrian or cyclist is coming the car stops before the pedestrian crossing to let them pass. after that you (ideally) have a little space so a car can cross those crossings and have a safe space to wait for it's turn to enter the roundabout. after the car is on the roundabout it has priority (just like everyone else on the roundabout, because a roundabout is considered a continuous road) when the car wants to exit the roundabout it encounters the same "safe waiting space" as before and has time to check it's surroundings between exiting the roundabout and crossing the bike and pedestrian crossings. same as before if a cyclist or pedestrian is there they have priority otherwise the car is free to leave. this is the case at almost all the roundabouts in urban area's in The Netherlands. but in rural area's the car volume is so much higher than pedestrians and cyclists that at those roundabouts cars have the priority. but they still have to look out for the others. always look at the yield signs to know who has to yield. and in addition to those signs we always have white triangles on the road surface to (we call them sharks teeth), if they point towards you, you have to yield. "5 minutes of traffic on a Dutch roundabout with bi-directional cycling lanes" from the channel "Frank van Caspel" is a good video to let you see how a safe roundabout works for every user.

[@punishedkid]

While we're at it, can we adopt the California stop, too?

[@jaro6985]

Good comments

[@gdemorest7942]

In Holland stop signs are rare. Most large intersections are either roundabouts of traffic lights. Lots of yield signs and lots totally unsigned intersections (30 kph streets). I grew up and live in Metro Vancouver, Canada and lived in Holland for 15 years. In Holland, almost 100% of all drivers also ride bicycles which helps a lot!!! I do not like the Vancouver mini roundabouts, modal filters would be better.

[@thndr_5468]

A 5000lb car asting a stop sign is significantly different than a 50 lb bike

[@astromec6303]

In fact I would even argue that actually fully stopping at stop signs (unless it’s a blind intersection that has a very good reason to have a stop sign) could be dangerous. The number of times that I have almost had someone rear-end me cuz I actually stopped is stupid (or vise versa). It also devalues the genuine stop signs that r actually needed like the one in Tom Scott’s video as ppl think that they r useless.

[@shraka]

Sounds like you have a serious problem with road rule compliance in your state. That really sounds like an enforcement issue.

[@KCH55]

What's worse is when there's a stop signs inside parking lots. Where should have been yield signs. But sometimes I rather stop signs then street lights or red lights or stop lights. However you like to call them. Just because I hate to stop and go. I think that they should just have a bunch of yield signs to be honest. I mean there's no reason to make a complete stop, at an intersection if there is no traffic. Yes, you should slow down if you're in a car. Near an intersection stop for the right away, pedestrians, cyclists I would even say for other animals if they happen to by crossing. For non North Americans I actually do understand why we have so many stop signs and I would actually say it has probably more to do with school buses. When I was a kid a stop saying always meant that that is basically where the school bus would stop to pick up kids. However, I still don't see how that would justify a four-way stop sign. Another thing is that I think the overuse of stop signs is just an old, relic of the past, like there was a time before red lights were a thing. And these were probably a solution before red lights were commonplace. I do like the idea of making stop signs. Be basically yield signs except under specific circumstances. Because as I said before kids do use it as a guide to know where to go wait for the school bus. Or at least that's how it used to be when I was a kid.

Sometimes the biggest conflict is between cyclists, where some cyclists are taking the first arrival priority, but others are bombing through regardless of their arrival time at the junction.

[@yellowflowerorangeflower5706]

New sub

[@thefilmguy]

Four way stops with signs are stupid. Roundabouts allow for traffic to yield to one another and traffic flows more smoothly.

[@Hi.Im.Andrew]

My city has a "bikeway" street that they removed stop signs in favor of mini-roundabouts. I generally prefer to ride down "regular" adjacent streets and run the stop signs. The roundabouts don't stop cars meaning I could get hit by a car just going through. It's a bad design and makes it a lot riskier for cyclists.

[@notisac3149]

I love how laughably simple it would be to replace a great deal of these four way stops with a modern roundabout, they're just better in so many ways when properly implemented in the right areas.

[@shraka]

Roundabouts are car oriented infrastructure, not pedestrian of cycle oriented. They should be used on roads where pedestrians aren't expected to cross them and bikes have separate paths, not in streets. The shared zone intersection shown above is way better for streets.

[@notisac3149]

@@shraka Roundabouts are almost always safer for both cars and pedestrians when designed to handle such traffic. And besides, the Dutch figured out how to integrate bicycles in roundabouts to make them safe and efficient.

[@shraka]

@@notisac3149 New research out of the Netherlands is showing roundabouts are not safe for cyclists - even the 'dutch style' ones. IIRC the dutch have completely moved away from roundabouts on streets and the latest standard only has them for roads now.

[@notisac3149]

@@shraka That’s interesting, as it goes quite contrary to much of what I have come to understand about roundabouts. I ought to look into this further, thank you. Is there anywhere you suggest I start looking for info perchance?

[@shraka]

@@notisac3149 I saw it in a YT video. Google "dutch research roudabouts" and that should start you off. The better solution for streets would be to have a mixed use zone at the intersection, or better yet make the whole street mixed use. Even for roads the beauty of a roundabout is it reduces conflict points, but once you add cyclists that makes the equation a lot more complicated and can completely mess up the flow advantages of a roundabout. You should look at what the dutch are doing with traffic lights now. Of course ped and bike preference but also extremely smart traffic control systems, 2-3 induction loops per lane, induction loops for bikes, pedestrian tracking systems to manage load. Very cool. Most of it enabled by them not relying on huge multi lane roads too much.

[@ttopero]

Not all states have the exact same verbiage & rules as Idaho so we use Safety Stop in Colorado. Also, as we learned in Colorado, it’s best to make the rules default for every community with the option to vote it out by the local government, rather than put the language on the books and expect EVERY community to adopt the same language-though politically the latter might be more palatable to start with.

[@JV-pu8kx]

I'm the one that _always_ stops!

[@MatthewFordVictoria]

Why not build more Round-abouts, where everybody has to yeild to the vehicles that are already in the intersection, but they don't have to stop.

[@nicthedoor]

I mentioned in the video that the types we have here shift risk onto pedestrians and cyclists. Proper, larger roundabouts have a large footprint.

[@doujinflip]

I believe there are too many unnecessary full stop signs in general where yield signs would suffice 🛑🛑🛑🛑

[@motorizedvehiclehegemony4107]

Omitted is the situation where a cyclist may stop while a cyclist behind them runs into them because they have no intention of stopping.

[@maguires]

Switch one pair of stop to yield based on busiest direction. Reduces air pollution and traffic. Four way stops are idiotic.

[@MathieuTechMoto]

I don't think licensing PEV's would be a good idea, mainly because in Québec the SAAQ sucks sooo much and is so poorly managed, to do any car or motorcycle transfert, this is truly hell and , now imagine that they have also to manage a great number of PEV's, i think most people would just circulate without licensing anyway because how horrible and complicated it is to do simple transactions with the SAAQ

[@nicthedoor]

Yeah It's something I have to consider further. But to let people use devices capable of reaching 50kph + with no training is eventually gonna go sour.

[@MathieuTechMoto]

You are right i've already seen people riding wayy to fast around people@@nicthedoor

[@Diggi1027]

Arizonans do not even know what a stop sign is let alone use one. I firmly believe the worst drivers in the world live right here in Arizona.

[@rofltehcat]

Putting stop signs in all four directions of every intersection is so stupid. American city planners need to start using priority and yield signs. Of course people start treating them like barely-existing yield signs if they have to stop at every intersection regardless of the local conditions. In Europe, when you come to an intersection, most likely you'll have priority. Because the larger roads usually have the priority signs. So of course you'll stick to the priority road and you barely ever see a stop sign, or yield sign, unless you're comming from the non-priority direction, from which you'll likely merge onto the priority road. It makes for a very nice traffic flow and when you actually come to a stop sign, you know that it is likely there for a reason and thus you actually stop.

[@Korina42]

How is it for the people living on those priority roads? We have one like that, and not a lot of residents walk or ride there.

[@draugnaustaunikunhymnphoo6978]

Stop signs are more efficient than roundabouts and less dangerous than traffic lights. The fact is, we don't use them enough.

[@ambiarock590]

I think roundabouts are more efficient than 4 way stops actually. During "Traffic Tricks" the Mythbsuters did, they showed that a roundabout let more cars through than a 4 way stop. A roundabout multiple people exist in the intersection at once

[@draugnaustaunikunhymnphoo6978]

@@ambiarock590 In fact, the opposite is true.

[@datadrivendave]

Almost all 4-way stops should instead be roundabouts

[@micosstar]

facys

[@tidbit1877]

Those raised intersections are awful, I have several in my city and they are NOT ok, not in the least! Also, speed bumps and reverse potholes should also be banned, these destroy vehicles and are the opposite of what my tax dollars are supposed provide; a smooth, level roadway. First thing that is wrong about this video is that bikes should not be on the road; I'm all for bike paths, but bicycles on roads is exactly the same as pedestrians on inter-state highways, like duh! It's just common sense! Also, most cities have very few pedestrians in the suburbs so what I suggest is that cities make wider sidewalks, and make them out of pavement, like bike paths, rather than concrete. These can then be shared by bikes and pedestrians as they would be wide enough for a pedestrian and cyclist to pass. Also, this idea of narrowing intersections to "make them safer to pedestrians" is the wrong mentality and doesn't work, it just makes it more likely that cars will have more accidents; like seriously one or two or even three more steps are NOT going to make a difference, you either looked before you crossed the road or you didn't. Also, bikes need to obey traffic lights the same as cars; anything else is super dangerous. Lastly, although I support redesigning our cities to be more pedestrian and cyclist friendly I do have to say that the personal vehicle is a must for most people and we will always have at least 40% plus of people owning one so we must continue to have roads and to maintain them and to have all the traffic infrastructure that we have today. Sometimes we just need a 5 lane major artery for vehicular traffic, deal with it. In short I'm saying we should build cities that are friendly to bikes, pedestrians, and drivers. Also, basically everything we all buy all the time comes into town on trucks so your favourite store or restaurant still needs a road to connect it to the grid. PS - The future I envision for cars is one in which people drive "runabouts" in the city limits and rent a heavier vehicle only when they go out of town; this would allow super light weight carbon fibre and plastic and fibreglass vehicles that are all electric but have a battery that is one twentieth the size of a Tesla battery. And combine that with most roads being 40kph and only major arteries being 60kph. And I'm a firm believer in bike lanes being separated from powered vehicles.

[@stevecarter8810]

"duh it's just common sense" is a common way of phrasing "I'm not even aware that what I have is a point of view"