Stop Splitting Earth Into East & West

[@NameExplain]

What do you think are some better terms for this split in the Earth than east and west?

[@ChickenChunks]

My team and enemy team

[@lukefleetwood7958]

There's nothing wrong with them, the entire premise of this video is obsolete. The Western World is the world whose culture values etc are defined by Europe, while the eastern world is the part of the world whose culture has been heavily influenced by China, including Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Vietnam and South East Asia. Nobody serious says Africa, India or the Middle East have anything to do with the Eastern world, which used to be known as the Orient. The former are all part of their own unique regions which could be broadly summed up as the Global South.

[@arnulfo267]

East and West are fine. Stop with your leftist whining.

[@arnulfo267]

East and West are fine. Stop complaining about petty stuff.

[@austinmoon]

@@lukefleetwood7958Well said. I agree that not all regions or cultures fall into the west/east binary.

[@silveryuno]

As Portuguese guy I say, you a can totaly split the globe into two pieces with Spain.

[@guanglaikangyi6054]

Devolve nosso ouro.

[@silveryuno]

​@@guanglaikangyi6054 A razão porque o Brazil não tem grandes reservas de ouro é porque o exporta. Se devolvermos o ouro podemos compra-lo devolta aseguir. (Mas Provavelmente iria para a China...)

[@guanglaikangyi6054]

@@silveryuno Estava brincando só amigo.

[@nomadicmonkey3186]

Underrated comment

[@silveryuno]

@@guanglaikangyi6054 Deculpas então... Ao longo dos anos já ouvi "Devolve nosso ouro." tantas vezes como um ataque de pessoas que provavelmente pensam que se isso acontece-se agora mesmo amanhã eles iriam receber 300 sestercios da mão do próprio Octávio César na Esplanada dos Ministérios...

[@benni_97at]

Saying that Peru is culturally Greco-Roman inspired but Turkey is not is a bit of a stretch...

[@guanglaikangyi6054]

Funny thing, in Portugese we call a turkey (the bird) peru, and the country Turquia. In English, it's the other way around, Turkey is country whose name is the homonym with the animal and Peru is only used as a proper noun. I know this has nothing to do with your comment, but you're commenting on an etymology channel, so...

[@Avram_Orozco]

Bolivia is more Anatolian than Turkish people

[@yucol5661]

To be fair it matches self identity way better. Bolivians teach Roman myths to their kids, they have theater and banking, they follow laws and traditions that can be traced from the Romans, the most common language is a Romance language and the writing system for the rest is too. Culture, religion, food, customs, politics. Same with Turkey tough, might even be MORE like ancient Roman’s culturally if we judge by their food or buildings. But Turkey probably just doesn’t like to think of themselves as Greek.

[@bryangamarra3208]

I think both of them simultaneously fit and fail that categorization. Peru is culturally Greco-Roman, but is also culturally Andean. The Andes is a cradle of civilization and its influence is the heaviest in Peru. So if we ever come to the conclusion that a country can be part of more than one civilization based on its population, then Peru would be both Western and Andean. In the case of Turkey, its Islamic heritage can't the only source of its culture. There is so much history related to the West in that country that it doesn't make sense to put it in a different category. Same as Peru, Turkey kind of exist in more than one "culture", I think.

[@mr.turdlybird4387]

Turkey is Muslim

[@HalfEye79]

In my youth, Russia and eastern Europe as the Soviet Union were cald "the East". When I hear "Orient", I don't think of China or Japan, but the arabic world. Ther are two movie-genres named Western and Eastern. A Western is in the territory of the US and is in the 19th century. An Eastern takes place in China and Japan, with roughly the same time. So, if you want to get rid of the terms "East" and "West", you will have to rename these two genres as well.

[@Ocelot835]

Eastern/Ostern movies were produced and filmed in socialist countries of Eastern Europe though. This subgenre doesn't have anything to do with Japanese or Chinese settings, movies more commonly took place either during the period of Russian Civil War or same old Wild West

[@daeith1233]

Im French and even tho orient mostly refers to Middle East I think, orient just mean east, like ppl there used to call east asian "extreme orient"

[@purplemarsmotionpictures]

We still call eastern european countries the east, and Putin himself calls America and friends The West

[@Tethloach1]

Oriental: Mostly Chinese Sometimes Japanese Sometimes Arabs Russian empire = western USSR = eastern

[@pawzir]

And of course the third world wasn't aligned with either the USA or Soviet. Because of this Finland and Sweden were part of the third world, until that term got its new negative meaning. No one uses the term eastern world.

[@lewatoaofair2522]

It’s very telling when the “West” is deemed cohesive, while the “East” isn’t so much. Basically, this “Eastern and Western Worlds” is itself a “Western-centric” concept. The issue lies in this dichotomy’s more contemporary implications of pride and ethnocentrism (and racism and classism).

[@dl2839]

No, the issue is that we need to split it up more. The Western world works well. There should be an Islamic world, a sub-Saharan african, and South Asian World. I think 5 works well.

[@Dave102693]

@@dl2839the western world doesn’t work

[@ted9030]

​@@dl2839But the Islamic world includes countries from Subsaharan africa and south asia etc it's way too diverse

[@dl2839]

@ted9030 True, it is a bit ambiguous where you should draw the line for "the Islamic world" in the 5 realm classification system I proposed. I think that Afghanistan should be the eastern most country, and it should just include the Mediterranean bordering African countries. As for South Asia, including everything in the Indian continent, Myanmar, Thailand Malaysia, and Indonesesia makes the most sense. The East should have Cambodia, China, Laos, the Phillipines, and Mongolia.

[@ted9030]

@@dl2839 Well there's also the terms Middle East, Indosphere and Sinosphere

[@balaam_7087]

After the end of World War II, the world was split into two: East and West. This marked the beginning of the era known as the Cold War. *Hnnngghh…*

[@tobyk.4911]

some highly developed, wealthy, capitalist countries were neutral concerning the military alliances (not allied with USA or USSR), for example New Zealand, Australia, Japan, Switzerland, Austria, Ireland, Finland and Sweden - but for economic and (often) cultural reasons they surely also belonged rather to "the West" than to the "neutral South "

[@flipride001]

!

[@smelly1060]

Only the Avatar, master of all f....oh .

[@gabrielmaximianobielkael3115]

​@@tobyk.4911except japan

[@roamandread1451]

HNNNNGHHHHH METAL GEAR

[@AvrahamYairStern]

I remember your history podcast a few years ago where you said "THERE IS NO EAST OR WEST, WE LIVE ON A BLOODY CIRCLE". I still think about that quote today and it makes me laugh each time

[@Mia32862]

I find the term "Western World" quite useful for describing the areas of the planet with more European influence (mainly Europe, the Americas, and Oceania) but I find the term "Eastern World" less useful. When people talk about "the East" they usually mean Asia or a specific part of it such as East Asia.

[@yodorob]

I would tentatively add South(ern) Africa and Israel to the list of places with more European influence, although less thoroughly than Europe, the Americas, and Oceania.

[@robert_wigh]

01:40 Fun fact: In the Russian language, the term Middle East is vary rarely used. Instead Syria, Iran, Iraq and all those countries are referred to as Near East (Ближний восток, Blizhniy vostok)

[@triccele]

Just an aside: in Spanish speaking countries, the words "occidental" and "oriental" are quite common and a proper way to say "eastern" and "western", with occidental not being outdated and oriental with no negative connotations.

[@SomasAcademy]

To explain why we have the terms Near East, Far East, and Middle East but a giant chunk of Asia that doesn't fall under any of these terms, that's due to the meanings of the terms "Near East" and "Middle East" shifting over time. Originally, the "Near East" basically referred to the lands of the Ottoman Empire, including the Balkans, while "Far East" had the same meaning as today, and "Middle East" was everything in-between. It could include everything from Iraq to Myanmar. So, India was often included within the label of "Middle East." However, by the 1930s it was sometimes used interchangeably with "Near East," and during WWII the British called their forces in West Asia and Egypt the "Middle East Command," after which the current usage for Middle East became most common (and "Near East" stopped being applied to the Balkans after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, while also shifting westward so that places as far east as Iran were sometimes included).

[@JmKrokY]

The term Balkan also shifted westward.

[@pasztorferenc6741]

In Hungarian we don't differentiate Near and Middle East, we just have Near East refer to country from Türkiye to Iran

[@SomasAcademy]

@@pasztorferenc6741 That's how most people use the term "Middle East" in English, "Near East" is a pretty rarely used term.

[@furuisamumoto]

"We live on a ball" 😊

[@sanexpreso2944]

This is what I have always been saying, there is no concept of "Western world" and "Eastern world" currently, which is exactly what each one represents, the Western world commonly refers to Greco-Roman Christian values but I have seen U. S. Citizens say that Japan belongs more to the Western world than iberoamerica, the same thing that the Eastern world China and India do not share the same culture there are many cultures within the world. India and within Asia

[@yodorob]

"I have seen U. S. Citizens say that Japan belongs more to the Western world than iberoamerica." That's only in an economic and geopolitical sense.

[@prettypic444]

Let’s also not forget that most Greek texts were preserved by Arabic scholars during the Islamic scholars during the Islamic golden age, so even certain “non Greek” places like Iran, Iraq, etc. have classical Greek influences. Personally, I would say classifying the world into “colonizers” and “colonized” is far more useful, though even that is technically flawed since there nations that were *both* (such as America, China, most Arabic speaking nations, etc.)

[@shyamraa]

Me Agreee... Let's split the World as North & South ! 🥸🧐😤

[@floutsch]

Korea is WAAAAAAAY ahead of you ^^

[@valentinmitterbauer4196]

We are already talking about "the global south", which is the fresh, new word for "3rd world", but just as misleading and condescending. (Example: India, on the northern hemisphere, is considered in "the global south", australia, on the southern hemisphere, is not)

[@chitlitlah]

@@valentinmitterbauer4196 Third world countries are countries that weren't aligned with the USA nor the USSR during the cold war, such as Switzerland. Is Switzerland considered part of the global south now?

[@callmefleet]

@@chitlitlah No, and it's not considered third world anymore either

[@Oera-B]

​@@valentinmitterbauer4196 Australia is an exception. India is still in the southern half of asia. That would just mean the "global south" means south from the tropic of cancer, not the equator. The continents are tilted northwards, anyway, so it's only fair.

[@SomasAcademy]

~11:30 "Greco-Roman Inspired World" is itself problematic, because Greco-Roman civilization ALSO had huge impacts on the Islamicate world; much of West Asia and North Africa were either part of the empire of Alexander the Great and his successors, the Roman Empire (including the Eastern Roman Empire, which lasted into the late Middle Ages), or both, and Greek philosophy was incredibly influential on later societies from these regions. Keep in mind, one of the titles of the Ottoman Emperors who ruled over much of West Asia and North Africa was "Kayser-i-Rum," meaning "Caesar of Rome" - they literally considered themselves successors to the Roman Empire, much like Russia (though unlike Russia the core of their Empire was actually in historically Roman territory, and the majority of their people descended from Roman citizens!). And that's not to mention the heavy influence of "Greco-Roman Inspired" European empires across much of the rest of the world in more recent periods!

[@valentinmitterbauer4196]

My country's state media listed japan as a western country one time. I'm from a central european country. And it's name literally means "eastern realm".

[@JmMateo933]

Östereich/Austria 🗿

[@Tethloach1]

Japan, Korea can be called western nations, even India. Some countries are both western and eastern. Russia India Japan Turkey Egypt Korea Australia South Africa

[@DickyMorin]

Japan is an East Asian country. It has been heavy influenced by the West but the Japanese remain essentially Japanese. The Korea's are also East Asian. South Korea has been heavily influenced by the West. North Korea is the same except that it's Western influence came in the form of communism. Like the above countries, India, too, has been heavily influenced by the West and like the above countries it is not a Western country. It is the main part of the Indian civilization. Like the above nations, Russia has been heavily influenced by the West, and like them it is not a Western nation. It is an eastern European nation. You may have noticed that the five above countries all have been heavily influenced by the West but are not Western countries. The common thread here is that process called Westernization. It began in the late 15th century and continues ever so today. Western European civilization has influenced nearly every corner of the globe, except for a few, more remote areas. It clearly has become the most dominant of the five major civilizations. Some areas like North America, Costa Rica, Argentina, Uruguay, Australia, and New Zealand are undoubtedly Western countries. This is because they were settled by people from the West and the original peoples have been reduced to small minorities. Other areas like Israel, Cuba, and Brazil, have at least half the population descended from Westerners, and so many see them as heavily westernized. Most of the world has been influenced by the West but are not part of the West because most of their people are of local origin and are part of the other four great living civilizations Lastly, some regions can be considered Western if the local people have been thoroughly Westernized as in the Ibo region of Nigeria, or they are partly descended from Westerners and their culture is essentially Western as in western South Africa where the "Cape Coloreds" live or in Latin America where the Mestizos are partly Spanish and Indian.

[@yodorob]

This confusion arises when "the West" is equated with "the developed world". Japan most certainly is in the latter but not in the former.

[@MusicTime-i3k]

@@Tethloach1 If you call India as western, you don't know what India is.

[@williswameyo5737]

I hope in the near future - we live in a ball- called Earth

[@simmat6419]

Only Russia saw itself as westerish. The west always put Russia either into the East or it's own thing

[@ImpalerVladTepes]

Not sure what you mean exactly, but Russia has historically seen itself as explicitly non-Western, though they would not necessarily call themselves "Eastern" either. This dates back to the establishment of the Eastern Roman Empire, to which Russia traces a good deal of its culture. Even to this day, in common Russian parlance "the West" refers to European countries generally West of the Czech Republic (as well as North America and Australia).

[@Truerussiantigershark]

Do you mean the Russian people because Vladimir Putin definitely does not

[@erdood3235]

3:59 and it were *Muslim* scholars that preserved the writings of ancient Greece.

[@mattisvov]

One of the reasons the "Eastern" world is hard to define is because it includes the "Middle East" which in many ways have more in common with the western world than the "Far East". For example, in terms of philosophical/intellectual traditions, the Middle East had a lot of exchange with the West. Man, did those fellas read their Plato. More importantly. Islam is an Abrahamitic religion. We really cannot leave religion out of such a discussion. It is an insanely powerful cultural force. (In this context, Secularism should probably be considered a religion, if nothing else in the sense that "zero is a number.") Maybe we could use this as a division? The Christian, Islamicate and Dharmic (Hinduism, Buddhism etc.) sphere? Of course the Christian world is not as Christian as it used to be, so I guess we could call it Christian/Secular, but that is a mouthful. We're talking more about the history of every cultural sphere anyways.

[@JmKrokY]

🤔

[@NovaSaber]

By religion I think the dividing line would be all the way between Iran and Pakistan. Since Zoroastrianism (started in ancient Persia) is also more similar to a western religion than an eastern religion. And by language...the name "Indo-European language family" kind of speaks for itself.

[@ImpalerVladTepes]

Nevertheless we are all bound by the shackles that is algebra.

[@duckpotat9818]

@@NovaSaber Most Indo-European speakers are in South Asia

[@NovaSaber]

@@duckpotat9818 Not really "most", but numbers aren't the point. The point is that south Asian languages are more related to west European language than they are to Chinese languages.

[@ToofaniZindagi]

It's not always a literal "east" "west" divide. Different contexts use these terms differently. There are geographic divides, but this is more about geopolitical and cultural divides. Japan and South Korea are usually considered "western" countries but not "in the west". Because they have a political and economic system aligned with the traditional western world. This is just what happens when you have layers of heritage in different parts of the world.

[@dl2839]

That's because of their current alliance with the dominant "western power," the US.

[@matertua2272]

The thing about using the greco-roman inspired world to refer to the west is that the arabs were extremely inspired by the greeks, with modern arabic musical traditions even having their origins in ancient greece, not to mention the huge philisophical and even theological influences. The persians, egyptians, and ethiopians all also have a very strong greek influence

[@samu-4k]

what is referred to as the Middle East in English is "Der Nahe Osten" (the Near East) in German. so, there are differences for classification even within western countries

[@bonecanoe86]

I don't think you can simply slice the world into two halves like this because of one reason: the Orthodox world. In one sense, they do descend culturally from Greco-Roman roots and can be grouped in with the West. But in another sense, they are very, very different culturally from Northern/Western Europe and Anglo-America and don't fit in with the West. They are a real third case.

[@philswiftreligioussect9619]

You could honestly say the same thing about Hispanic countries and Brazil, which are also very different to the "West" because of their indigenous roots (which play a non-existent role in North America).

[@sechernbiw3321]

The West really descends culturally from the Franks, not from the Greeks or Romans. The Franks just enjoyed speaking Latin, LARPing as Romans and shipping Christianity / Aristotelian philosophy, so ever since the West has continued the Frankish custom of having fun pretending to be culturally Roman and Greek. Nothing wrong with that, but if the West were really Graeco-Roman then the West would have needed to wrestle with and talk about the negative and neutral aspects of Greek and Roman culture as well as the positive, and wouldn't have needed to rediscover 'Greek and Roman culture' in the 11th century or in the Renaissance, because they would have instead just rediscovered *ancient* Greek and Roman culture and added it to their medieval Greek and Roman culture, except that they didn't have a medieval Greek and Roman culture, because by that point the Western institutions were basically post-Roman in origin and based on Germanic and Slavic laws mixed with later re-discovered Roman laws that the Germanic and Slavic peoples adapted to their own preferences rather than inheriting directly the way the Eastern Roman Empire inherited Roman law directly and continuously going all the way back. The real inheritor of the Greek legacy is the Orthodox world, which was converted to Christianity by the Eastern Romans rather than by the Franks, practices a form of Christianity based on the writings of Greek-speaking Church Fathers, and part of which still speaks Greek and never stopped speaking Greek. I don't know how much more Greek you can get than people who are literally Greek and have been speaking Greek continuously since the ancient Greeks, including before, during and after the Renaissance.

[@gabrielmaximianobielkael3115]

​​@@philswiftreligioussect9619 the main non-western influence in Brazil is not indigenous, is African. Even though they had a little influence in the culture, it wasn't so strongly as Africans did (Which are mostly the opposite of countries like Mexico and Peru, where the amerindian civilizations were). And countries like the USA also have African presence in the culture (such as in the music, language and midia) in addition to having a Latino population that will be more than a quarter of the total in the coming decades. Even so, USA is in the west

[@Dave102693]

@@sechernbiw3321and the Arabs, Iranians and Turks are partially Greco-Roman in nature as well.

[@atlas567]

​@gabrielmaximianobielkael3115 como se os Estados Unidos e Canadá também não tivessem raízes indígenas? Esses dois países são tão ou mais indígenas que qualquer outro país americano

[@christopherbentley7289]

Thank you for taking on my request, Patrick, although I think you confused my initials with a certain medical treatment as I was referred to as 'CBD_at_Patreon', the 'D' and 'B' being transposed. I also think you missed a point that I was making in the process of my request, where I was thinking of Japan as part of what has conventionally become known as 'The West', as a liberal democracy. I note that some have already made reference thereto here, but the years of the Capitalist/Communist divide during the Cold War, which in many ways still echo down the decades to today, where the politics of what was the German Democratic Republic remain very different from that of what was the Federal Republic of Germany, for example, were also overlooked. Although I well know that there were/are parts of the world far to the east, geographically speaking, of the former Soviet Bloc, by and large I still stick by my choice of name for the Blog on the female Pop scene of the Soviet Satellites, 'Girls Of The Golden East'. Incidentally, I have encountered the concept of certain African nations being considered 'Oriental', although that has nothing to do with this global East/West split. It is more to do with the nations that have become associated with long-distance running as opposed to sprinting, which is generally more prevalent in the West of Africa.

[@RF1702]

Good old Australia, Put in the South East of maps yet its in the Cultural West and the Global North.

[@christinebrown3359]

I didn't think that because we call one group "the western world" that meant that we therefore refer to everything else as the eastern world. I thought there were many cultures, each with their own groupings and names, not necessarily to do with cardinal directions.

[@janelo2]

Takk!

[@yasmin7903]

Not only did the Mesopotamians come up with the ideals that the Greek later adopted, but after the fall of the roman empire many of the Greek writings, philosophies and Ideas were largely forgotten, to be rediscovered, translated and explained by the Arabs to later be translated into Latin from Arabic. So yeah, western.

[@JmKrokY]

🤔

[@GanjaCoyote]

Ouch and I should have known. Very dumb indeed. The world has always been a larger melting pot of ideas than most of us realize.

[@obliviongigan6360]

Source for that? I would like to read for myself your information.

[@Dave102693]

Western Roman Empire

[@purplemarsmotionpictures]

@@obliviongigan6360 There are several sources of this, it's a well known and well documented historical fact. Any history book that covers the period will have this in there. The dark ages removed all greco roman writing from Europe. The Arabs were having "the Golden age". In the city of Baghdad, writers from all cultures the Arab interacted with had their books translated to Arabic. After the dark ages europeans translate the Arabic books back to European languages, they start talking about these ideas and say they are having a renaissance(rebirth). You could also find hundreds of videos on KZbin talking about it.

[@Moses_Caesar_Augustus]

I always found the 'Western world' concept dumb. I often wondered why nobody talked about how dumb it is; thankfully, you did. The Earth is so diverse that dividing it into arbitrary categories will never make sense.

[@carleryk]

East and West in European context should only be separation of Eastern Orthodox Church and Western Catholic church. Some people still use the inaccurate Cold War Era definition but it's pretty pointless since it doesn't show basically anything about the country's culture. Luckily, this world view is steadily disappearing. As I am from Northern Europe myself, I would actually separate this region from others additionally. That is because most Northern European countries share Lutheranism as the base of the culture. These countries include Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Estonia and to some extent Latvia. Although only a small share of people in these countries are active in Lutheran church today, the teachings of it remain in the culture whether people realize it or not.

[@Idran]

One small correction: it's not _quite_ accurate to say that the Eastern Roman Empire was "also going by the Byzantine Empire" before its collapse, as that name wasn't coined until some time after the empire's fall. Historians came up with the term "Byzantine Empire" later ("Byzantine" being the demonym for people from Constantinople, or "Byzantium" in Latin) just to more easily differentiate it from the Western Roman Empire in their writing. Also, Zeus and Poseidon were Greek gods; the Roman versions were Jupiter and Neptune.

[@yodorob]

"Byzantine" is an exonym for the Byzantine Empire; the true native name for it is the "Roman Empire", not even "Eastern Roman Empire" which it technically was. So much so that in Greek the term is "Romaioi" and in Arabic it's "al Rum".

[@waynegreen87]

I would love to see a video discussing the idea of a “Global North” and “Global South”

[@Mackyle-Wotring]

Thank You NameExplain for making this informative video. There was another KZbinr who made a video about this topic. His channel name is Cognito.

[@Ramondenner1991]

Good point on that “influenced by Greece/rome” argument. Probably every “western” country sees itself as a “kind of continuation” of the Roman Empire. For example, in my country (Brazil) the narrative used in school years is: Rome, fall of Rome and Middle Ages, renaiscence and explorations, colonization, Atlantic slavetrade, the napolionic wars and the arrival of the Portuguese royal family in Rio, independence, Imperial years, republic and then “modern history” Looking at what is chosen to be thought, we can see clearly that they teach a line of evolution from Rome.

[@nunyabiznis6907]

2:18 The poles are not even north or south. Earth has a notable axial tilt which does not vary enough to make it's axial tilt 0 - and thus the poles even north or south, within any recent period of time.

[@Liggliluff]

(3:20) I don't know, Peru, Sweden, Nigeria, Morocco, Jamaica, Greece, Iceland, Congo, ... these western countries just seem way too different from eachother.

[@JordanToJericho]

I use East and West in the light of the Religious divide between Eastern Christianity and Western Christianity. But if I were to refer to Africa, China, or India I would just say their proper names. Then of course there are political/geographic names like Central Asia (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, etc.) and South East Asia (Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.)

[@JSkitt]

I think Eastern Europe (anything eastern of Germany, Austria, and Italy with the exception of Greece), Latin America, and Africa are considered the Eastern World. It all comes down to whose affiliated more with the US.

[@belicek1]

To consider Latin America as the Eastern World is absurd, it is western in almost every sense. It even has in its name that it's part of so called Western World. It is not less western than for example USA, it is just different. Anyway, I think we should really stop using this East/West division, because it became very confusing. In my opinion, east and west should be used like the directions only

[@austenhead5303]

The division today is between "the collective West" (comprised of the U.S., Canada, Britain, Norway, Switzerland, the EU, South Korea, Japan, Australia and New Zealand, plus a few micro nations) - and "the Global South" (pretty much everyone else, including Russia, however northern its location). The terms are political rather than geographical.

[@yodorob]

(Geo)political but also economic and socioeconomic. Not beyond those, though.

[@NicholasBrendel]

Good video. This a good explanation of this concept. Very interesting!

[@michaelhaywood8262]

What about using lines of longitude? Western Hemisphere is that W of the 0 degree line and the Eastern Hemisphere is E of that line. They meet again at 180 degrees. The 0 degree line runs through Britain, Europe and Africa and the 180 degree line goes mainly through the Pacific Ocean.

[@luord2940]

2:53 I live in Peru and I confirm, I dont imagine people in sweden eating Pollo a la Braza with Incacola while listening Musica Criolla often hehe

[@SantaFe19484]

During the Cold War, all the countries aligned with the USSR were labeled as "east" and the ones aligned with NATO, were considered "western".

[@surroundedbyidiotz]

"FPV Angel" has an eye opening presentation on "east and west"

[@gophtheengine6185]

2:53 Yeah I can confirm that as a Peruvian. This is what i've been thinking all this time and the reason why the east vs west division has been prevalent is thanks in part to the Cold war politics of the 20th century. We even do define our turf of latin speaking countries as Latin America and for some reason there's disscusion whether that's the west or not or even more dumber than that is now the new coined term "Global south" which in my opinion is pure bullshit.

[@juanjacobomoracerecero6604]

Creo que el sur global es todavía mas tonto que lo de Oriente y Occidente, porque yo como Mexicano por ejemplo, si me voy a Austria obviamente voy a experimentar dificultades para adaptarme, pero tendría muy buen sentido de lo que está permitido por la ley y lo que no, también tendría un buen sentido de lo que puede resultar ofensivo y lo que no. En cambio en ciertos países de África, Medio Oriente y Asia las leyes están basadas en sus costumbres, religión, etc., así que podría estar violando alguna ley sin tener la menor idea, y ciertos gestos o cosas que uno considera normal allá son considerados insultos y eso del Sur Global pretende que un Peruano y un Somalí o un Birmano tienen experiencias de vida muy similares, eso me hace todavía menos sentido que lo de Oriente y Occidente.

[@mang5514]

Middle east has more in common with Europe then the far east if you consider certain subjects; like religion or ancient history

[@burner555]

Judaism and Christianity originated from Middle East, to begin with

[@genehawkridge1919]

West longitudes versus east longitudes are geographically valid. So why is 0°E/W in London? History and politics put it there. I personally do not use the terms "eastern world" and "western world" as they really don't make any particular sense.

[@snibo1024]

They put it there because it's the place that the guy who invented it live (Greenwich)

[@sskpsp]

Imperial core vs periphery. Culture is only superstructure. Material relations are the basic divisions of society upon which all else is built, and imperialism is the modern set of relations.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

East vs West is more a culture thing. I would not necessarily include Latin America or any part of Africa - they aren't in the "east" either. I've never considered Russia as either West or East.

[@ADMusic1999]

We kind of already have a dividing line between east and west in the international date line. So that’s why you wouldn’t say Japan is west of Hawaii for instance. It’s an entire day ahead of Hawaii. It was an international decision to put the line there so you can’t blame the Europeans (at least not completely).

[@NovaSaber]

Of course, that still leaves Australia and New Zealand about as far east as it gets. Also, Italy and Greece are in the eastern hemisphere. Even most of France and part of England are, if you go strictly by the prime meridian.

[@burner555]

>blame Europeans British Empire wasn't european confirmed

[@ADMusic1999]

@@NovaSaber It’s also a cultural thing. If Australia was settled by Asians, no doubt it would be considered “the eastern world.” But geographically speaking, Australia has to be in the east because of the date line. Without that line, things would get really confusing

[@floutsch]

Honestly, I always thought it was the split of the Roman empire into west and east parts. And that just stayed for the people in the eastern and western zones from that vantage point and the people who moved or influenced others in different geographical locations took the terms with them. I fully agree with your point of it making little sense on a ball - even as a little kid I was confused why there's no east and west pole, if there are north and south ones, and how that was decided then :D

[@JmKrokY]

True

[@juanjacobomoracerecero6604]

The Global North-Global South is even dumber than the East-West division, as a Mexican I would feel more at home in any so called "Western" country than in most countries of the "Global South" (outside the Latin American ones). In Portugal, Spain and Italy I think I would adapt quickly, but lets say something more different: The Netherlands. I would have much more sense of what is legal or ilegal and what is offensive or not for the Dutch than lets say in Papua New Guinea or Malawi.

[@bonevelous]

I would like another video about how ridiculous the split between "Europe" and "Asia" is when we should be calling it "Eurasia" because most other continents are at least split apart by a very thin or otherwise small strip of land, rather than the mess of politics, culture and vague gestures towards bits of geography no one can actually agree on that the Eurasian continent line is based on.

[@lewatoaofair2522]

I’ll keep saying this: The real difference between Europe and Asia is that they’re “Europe” and “Not-Europe”, respectively.

[@NovaSaber]

And along these lines, the Greeks did divide their known world into "the west" and "the east", except instead of directions they called them "Europe" and "Asia". (The African country the Greeks had the most contact with was Egypt, so they considered Africa to be part of Asia.)

[@guanglaikangyi6054]

There's a mountain range between them that made them culturally separate, that's why they're divided. Geographical separations take into account cultural differences. And if you think we should stick to geological formations, why not add Africa to Eurasia? It was connected to Asia prior to the building of the Suez canal, after all. And if you're taking account geological origins, it get's way more messy. What about India? It is a sub-continent continent that smashed into Asia. Is it still part of Asia? No matter what separation you make, it will always be arbitrary and ignore certain factors.

[@NovaSaber]

@@guanglaikangyi6054 The mountain range running...right through Russia? And is much less of a division (regardless of whether you're counting geographically, geologically, or culturally) than the one separating India from China? The Middle East is also more culturally similar to Europe than it is to the Indian subcontinent or the Far East. Historically, Persia had more contact with Greece than with India. Africa is connected to Eurasia by an isthmus; same as North America and South America. That's not the same thing at all as a land connection that's basically as long as Europe's entire north/south size.

[@bonevelous]

@@guanglaikangyi6054 True. I guess ultimately our eagerness to categorize giant lumps of land into subsections is just part of what makes us human :)

[@archmage_of_the_aether]

Dude, I think you missed the point of those names. Hint: they're not geographical

[@pauliusiv6169]

there is some geography involved when you look at a flat world map with europe and the americas in the west and asia in the east

[@danime1941]

This concept stems from the west vs the rest they didn't even consider south America from the west

[@divarachelenvy]

As an Aussie all I can say is every map is upside down..

[@kuroazrem5376]

Greece also influeced everyone from Egypt to India during Alexander's conquests. Also, Islam is heavily influenced by Greek thought.

[@noelleggett5368]

From the end of World War II, until the end of the Cold War in the 1990s, the ‘Western World’ was a political term used to refer to NATO countries and their allies. The ‘Eastern Bloc’ referred to the Communist nations including the USSR and the Communist nations of Eastern Europe, China, North Korea and Southeast Asia, several allied African and Latin American nations (including Cuba). The term used for those countries who were not aligned with NATO in the ‘West’, and the Communist nations to the ‘East’ was the ‘Third World’. This term refers to political non-alignment - not poverty. Switzerland was considered (and still is) part of the Third World.

[@Jane_8319]

Many have pointed out Greece’s influence on the east, as well as the euro-centrism of the concept, but honestly I think the idea of a “western world” is primarily from the notion of “christendom”

[@yuvalne]

my idea: split it by imperial tradition. Roman imperial tradition, Russian imperial tradition, Sino-Japanese imperial tradition, Islamic imperial tradition, and India.

[@AlexWalkerSmith]

I think the Pacific Ocean gives most places in the world a pretty good reason to consider the Americas as "West" and Japan as "East".

[@eliotanderson6554]

How can u divide east into 3 regions without mention the center of the world east (indian subcontinent) accounting 25 % of humanity and legacy of 7000 years

[@Ggdivhjkjl]

Don't the Greeks divide the world into Greeks and barbarians?

[@Ariadne1111]

Barbarian is someone who didn't speak ancient Greek. It got the name because other languages sounded to ancient Greeks like they were saying "bar bar" That's like saying:"x people separate the world into x people and foreigners"

[@MarcioHuser]

Yeah, and besides, "western world" is quite tricky, because the "ones in the north" does not consider Latin America as "western culture", mostly 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@williswameyo5737]

For us in Africa, we refer to the Canada ,US and Western Europe to as the West

[@andrewfarrington6627]

Surely the logical dividing line is the Greenwich Meriden 0 degrees longitude everything to the west of London by x degree is west and everything to to east of London by x degree is east. It splits the UK ever so slightly but it surely makes a tiny bit more sense in geographical terms???

[@Rolly90]

In German the near east "der nahe Osten" is the english middle east pretty much.

[@ThainaYu]

One solid argument for east and west is, center do exist because our current continent landmass shape is admittedly stay together. Hence it have center of area coincidentally at Europe Consider culture and human themselves develop on land, south pacific can be considerably less important than its antipodes, the Europe So relatively east and west considering Europe as center is acceptable

[@noelleggett5368]

There’s also a new socio-economic term for non-aligned ‘developing nations’ called ‘The Global South’. And Australia and New Zealand, despite being among the most southern nations in the world (and ‘Australia’ actually means ‘southern land’), are not considered part of ‘The Global South’. I understand that this is a new term for the nations not politically aligned with NATO or the old Russia-China ‘eastern bloc’. It used to be called the ‘Third World’ but since the end of the Cold War, many people think the term means ‘poor and undeveloped’.

[@Altrantis]

I think it largely means whether the culture has a lot of Roman influence or ancient Chinese influence in their social structure. If they don't have either they aren't really eastern or western. Alternatively, another sort of idea is western nations can be those structured over the bones of the Roman Empire, and everyone who isn't is eastern. This is largely what people mean, indirectly, when they split the world that way.

[@edgar-sama642]

I thought it was a holdover from the cold war: The West for the US, Western Europe and NATO, And The East for the USSR and China

[@Clean.Eastwood]

8:14 it's fitting that that "Occident" is still in use in the latin languages, like Spanish, which has "Occidente".

[@xenturion2184]

I completely agree with this. The use of the terms "east and west" should not serve as a general, global mark of European and Asian cultural division. The world is way more nuanced than that, with civilizations exchanging ideas and inventions with each other through an array of locomotive methods.

[@kordellcurl7559]

I thought it was more of an USA-Russia thing and not from Ancient Greece.

[@bonevelous]

Cold-War and Post-Cold-War politics such as NATO nations such as the US and communist nations such as the USSR and China likely reinforced the idea of a "Western World" vs the "Eastern World," but I don't particularly feel surprised hearing that the origins are older than that.

[@JmMateo933]

No

[@Blio_]

The problem with coming up with a term for the ‘east’ is that ‘east’ really is just a term for everything else. Though using this world does seem kind of… ‘western-centric’, the only *accurate* label WOULD be ‘non-greco-roman’ because the rest of the world just is not similar to each other in the same way the ‘west’ is. ‘East’ and ‘west’ is just a renaming of ‘outsider’ and ‘insider.’ Best solution I can think of is specifying the east and west of *what* you’re talking about exactly, like saying ‘east asian’, or just tossing the ‘east-west’ schtick altogether with areas like the middle east and instead saying things like ‘arabic’.

[@alex6027]

It's possible there's just things I'm not familiar with in regards to the usage of these terms. That being said. In my experience, most of the times I hear people genuinely and seriously use terms like 'western civilisation', it's been out of xenophobia, white supremacy, and cryptofascism. Also often as a dogwhistle.

[@snibo1024]

I heard it once in school when they talked about the fall of the ottoman empire and the imbalance between the east and the west

[@jorgelotr3752]

It all depends on your country, its culture and its ties with xenophobia. It's technically an academic term, but (as usual) was later reappropriated both by people with pride in their culture and people with absolute disdain/hate for foreign cultures.

[@brixan...]

But always remember, that lies with the speaker, not the words. You could use the words innocently. Maybe the most clear case of this is when we see words used during different eras. Meanings can change within a generation.

[@iliaselmaghrebi9114]

Aren't the Western world countries that are friends of the USA democratic, liberal, and capitalist? And aren't the Eastern world countries all countries that do not fit the criteria? Because as an Arab, that is how I learned it to be. I never saw it as cultural or geographical; it was a political destination.

[@gscsilvavaladares7065]

You are aware that when a country of the Global South manage to fit the criteria but diverge from the West in ideas the latter try to destroy such country in all forms possible , right?

[@Jupiterqq]

Taiwanese here. We draw our map with Eurasia left and America right, so the "Eastern world" is actually in the middle. And that also means New Zealand won't ever be missing. Instead of spliting in Western and Eastern, I think the Eastern world should be further splitted into Islamic region and other. Abrahamic religeons really offer great bonds among such big areas and many people. We don't share any specific element that can connect a big "Non-Islamic Eastern world" into a region, but to continue splitting it (into East Asian, South-East Asian, Indian, etc.)

[@Jupiterqq]

Oh, I just found that the monsoon actually meets the requirement.

[@modmaker7617]

I think there are 7 cultural regions on Earth; ●The West (Europe, Russia, Americas, Australia and New Zealand) - originates with with the Romans/Greeks and Christianity ●Arab World (Middle-East & North Africa) ●South Asia ●East Asia ●South-East Asia ●Pacific Islands ●Sub-Saharan Africa Edit: I forgot about Sub-Saharan Africa. Sorry

[@timchiu501]

You are right, I have once heard a missionary from Europe telling us (East Asians) that the Gospel came from the Asia (his narrative was "the gospel is also from the Asia, it's not something foreign or from the west, you guys should accept it"). We were all confused. Obviously, the middle east is very different from the East Asian. In fact, the concept of Asia is something invented by the Greeks (Correct me if I am wrong) and it is not describing the reality correctly. We cannot see any similarities between east Asians and Arabs. Even Chinese and Indians are very different.

[@Lighty-jz2gm]

So where would Central Asians and other Turkic peoples, Armenians, Georgians, Israelis, and other West Asians such as Iranians go? They're all in Asia with a few minor exceptions (Turkish Thrace being the most notable as the others only have a little land in the geographical Europe).

[@PeridotFacet-FLCut-XG-og1xx]

I think Sub-Saharan Africa deserves its own cultural region. Even though many of those countries are influenced by Christianity, their social practice are quite distinct from europeans. Even though English and French are recognized nationally in some of those countries, most people still retain their native Niger-Congo and Bantu languages; unlike northern Africa which has fully adopted arabic, both in governmental context and in socio-cultural context. Middle+South Americas is also quite unique. Unlike its northern couterpart, a significant portion of their current population still retain ancestry to pre-Columbian empires. They celebrate festivities both from europe and from their own region.

[@DiMadHatter]

Still pretty arbitrary and unnuanced

[@modmaker7617]

​@@Lighty-jz2gm Central Asia is difficult to categorise.

[@richiesmeckgeckscas46]

I only think of "Western Hemisphere" and "Eastern Hemisphere" when I think of splitting the world into "west" and "east."

[@tozainamboku]

In recent years you are more likely to hear the term "global south" splitting the would between the economically developed countries in the north and the developing countries in the southern part of the globe. Of course, Australia and New Zealand are about as far south as you can get (Australia even means Land of the South), but are considered part of the global north. Different definitions may include China as either part of the global south or the global north, while Japan and South Korea are always part of the north.

[@TrevorChatwood]

"Sweet as bro" is a New Zealand sxpression.

[@axisboss1654]

I’ve even heard people say Latin America isn’t the west and in that definition only include Europe, Canada, and America.

[@nomadicmonkey3186]

From a Japanese pov sure it's definitely not a Western country and sadly enough it's been rapidly becoming an underdeveloped country by economic measures these days but one view that I and a lot of the Japanese folks share is that we're part of the 'free' world where there isn't an outright oppressive totalitarian regime which we can't theoretically or practically dethrone without violence; and fortunately, I believe, freedom of speech, movement or choice of profession are more or less (operative word being more or less) maintained here as in other free nations.

[@PugalshishOfficial]

I'm pretty sure the East-West divide has to do with race. The West is generally seen as being European Caucasian, and the East is seen as being Chinese, Korean, and Japanese. Belong with that , the West is seen as being more developed than the East, which is why Japan and South Korea are seen as being a part of the West, while North Korea is seen as being a part of the East.

[@Gingerphile00]

nope. eastern europeans are not western. and for that matter neither are northwest europeans. only olive skinned curly haired latins are 'western' germanic and celtic peoples are not descended from romans thus they are their own classification andare not part of the 'west'.

[@Liggliluff]

Using "Caucasian", which means people of Caucasus, middle east, makes it even weirder.

[@DickyMorin]

I never split the world into east and west. Even during the cold war, there were places that did not fit into either side.

[@stephenbenner4353]

It’s a cultural phenomenon from which generally understood language has emerged. Just like there’s nothing literally left handed or right handed about political right and left, nor is there actually anything inherently evil in darkness or inherently good in lightness. While these symbols may not be technically correct, they are generally understood representations of concepts.

[@gscsilvavaladares7065]

There IS a division between left and right in politics because they represent the class struggle ,but yeah you are correct on the rest.

[@Werevampiwolf]

Let's be honest. A lot of people use the "western world" to mean anywhere with a white majority or upper/ruling class. As if we aren't all human beings. Though I guess, like you mentioned, we're like the ancient greeks like that, with more layers of faff

[@burner555]

And other use it to say "Europe/USA/Modernity bad" I.e. Weebs/Neo-Nazis/Wtf Elon cooked with Twitter

[@ArmenianBishop]

I use it to define political differences and alliances. When I've said that Armenia might join the "Western Powers" I'm talking about a shift in its alliances.

[@zillavale]

Same with Race and splitting people up between Black and White... so stupid and annoying but it's life and "we have to just accept it"

[@rebeccaorman1823]

Rome and China were not in contact with each other. There was travel along the silk road. People would go a distance, trade with others. The others repeated the process.

[@brixan...]

The point of words is to communicate, to share ideas/information. If the problem is that the terms are imperfect, that's okay because: all language is imperfect. Earth is a sphere, but we put 0° longitude somewhere because that's useful. Japan is named "sun origin" aka "Land of the Rising Sun" (because the sun rises in the east!). "How can that be if the US is to the east of it?? So dumb!" /s We use these terms for historical reasons, people understand them, etc. There are no perfect words to divide up the world. Even the terms you're suggesting... Are describing the same thing. You may dislike it, but it's no more "dumb" than other terms we use to organize the world

[@HunterAllan]

so what if we just refer to the "Western World" as the Latin World since these countries and their culture trace their roots back to the Roman Empire. This would also align with the types of languages they speak which are based on Latin.

[@Ryno_YT]

Though realistically, other map formats where europe ISN'T in the centre are impractical since you'd just end up with a big empty space for the Pacific Ocean. It's the easiest way to depict the world where you have "west" and "east" in that format. There may not be an ACTUAL east and west, but for the sake of orienting yourself and coordinates, we have to make do.

[@kijekuyo9494]

By the way, I've always contended that calling Europe a continent is stupid too. Eurocentrism lifts its ugly head again.

[@yodorob]

It bothers me that people talk about "the West" as if synonymous with "the developed world" or "the Global North". Countries like Argentina are fully Western but not developed or Global Northern, and countries like Japan are the opposite.

[@Lighty-jz2gm]

7:45 Gajus Aurelius Valerius Diocletianus, or simply Diocles or Diocletian, died in AD 313, so 395 would be a bit late.

[@sergetell]

I always associated the concept of western civilization what is predominantly christian culture, and eastern cinvilization, muslim (middle east), hindu (south east), buddist (far east). Maybe a peruvian guy has little to do with a scandinavian guy, but surely has a lot in common with a spaniard.

[@purpleninja7249]

Unpopular opinion, but I would say that Islam, being Abrahamic, is actually Western. The biggest East/West conflict on this border was between Islam and Hinduism in India, which were polar opposites, one strict and monotheistic, the other very fluid. And I think that pretty much sums up the difference between East and West. The West likes things to be defined exactly, while the East is more fluid. The concept of Religion is pretty similar between Christians and Muslims, but you go farther East and this concept sort of breaks down. Hinduism and Eastern folk religions are highly syncretic, and more about spirituality than moral absolutism. Also, Islamic philosophy was greatly influenced by Greek philosophy, showing a cultural continuity there. Being on the far West, the Middle East seems Eastern, but I think from an outside perspective, it makes more sense to put the Muslim world in the West.