What If There Was A Continent In the Pacific?

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The Pacific is big. So big you could just fit another land-mass in it. Some people once believed there was a landmass in it that sank beneath the waves. There wasn't, but it'd be fun to imagine if there was. What if the lost continent of Mu was actually real and was simply another landmass. Let's theorize.
Twitter: / althistoryhub
Patreon: / alternatehistoryhub
Special thanks to AMLCreator: / amlcreator
Chapters:
00:00-Intro
01:08-What Is Mu
04:23-Imagining the Geography
08:07-Populating the Place
13:23-Figuring Out the History
17:28-How Mu Changes Everything
19:19- Mu and Empire

[@Boo_351]

I think the Polynesians, Incas, and Aztecs having potential access to horses, cows, steel, gunpower, artillery, and arquebuses through trade with East Asia would change colonization quite drastically. Plus the expaded trade could lead to the Ming dynasty maintaining their trade fleet and not isolating themselves.

[@jakeaurod]

The ancient Aztecs and maybe the Inca might have had access to horses if they hadn't gone extinct in North America about 15,000 years ago. I wonder if climate effects due to Mu would have prevented that.

[@KarolusImperator]

Hell, we might've even gotten a Sunset Invasion scenario

[@majinjason]

I think they would still get conquered, but North America, US and Canada would demographically look more like Central and South America. The population would be less white and more mixed. With the North American Natives not being wiped out by disease, they would control more land, forcing the settlers to work with the locals instead of displacing them. So less racial diversity in the US(pretending it still exists) would change our entire history. And cultures and religions would blend as well. It may also cause the US to be much less powerful, as it may be stuck in New England and other countries take it's place in the rest of North America.

[@bustavonnutz]

Exactly, it'd be more akin to trying to colonize Japan with 300 Conquistodors. These people also would've been just as robust towards Old World diseases as the Europeans, so unless they launched a formal military campaign I just don't see anything but the coast being colonized until the 19th century.

[@sizanogreen9900]

@@majinjason Actually I feel like the end result would be somewhere between Mexico and India. I mean minor casualties because if disease and being technologically much further ahead would make a lightning conquest like the spanish ones in our time pretty much impossible in meso-america and the andes as well as making any conquests in other areas a lot harder as well. I would assume the spanish taking over many islands and coastal strongholds but aside from that there being a lot more trade and missionary work, probably not always restricted to amicable means but going hand in hand with a slow more diplomatic takeover/subjegation instead of an outright conquest of the developed areas. In the meantime colonizers would probably continue to carve up the more tribal areas with their increasing tech advantage. In the end the meso american and andean civilisations would probably get fully occupied for a few generations but probably keeping large parts if not most of their culture and religion into the modern age. Also I feel like settler colonization wouldn't really happen in the core parts of american civilisation, meaning there would hardly be much influx from european ethnicity but I could see african slaves beeing imported maybe along with rich white people setting up plantations as well as taking over many important parts of the local economy over time...

[@Lashb1ade]

"Water levels will rise and change everything!" If we can add a continent, we can remove an equal volume of water. I think that's an allowable handwave for this scenario. EDIT: The whole evolution of life on Earth would change so no humans would exist. There, discussion finished.

[@deleted-something]

Ye

[@SpiceLettuce]

but where do we put the water?

[@therealspeedwagon1451]

But another thing is the loss of the equatorial Pacific current, which drives El Niño and La Niña events. And would change weather patterns and climate all around the world

[@jakeaurod]

Sure, and you could put Earth in the orbit of Mars too, but generally, you want to handwave as few things as possible. One way to keep the sea level similar without changing the rest of the planetary geophysics is to deepen the ocean basin and increase the cryosphere and inland seas or lakes and aquifers.

[@therealspeedwagon1451]

@@jakeaurod I think if you made Antarctica larger to have more ice it could be a similar water level. But there’s still the current thing to worry about

[@TheAutoclaves]

A great follow up idea to this is: the Americans vs the Japanese in the deserts of Mu, happening simultaneously with the North African campaign.

[@chinguunerdenebadrakh7022]

That sounds like a bodyslam by the Americans. Japanese heavily lacked mobility whereas the Americans were the most mobile combatant of WW2. The environment of the Pacific restricted epxloitation of this. But who knows, maybe the existence of this continent makes the Japanese military change their doctrine and focus more on heavy armor and mobility.

[@Jeff55369]

@@chinguunerdenebadrakh7022 If the us owned the entire northern half of the continent, the Japanese might not have even attacked. That's a lot of extra real estate, which means an even higher us population.

[@DIREWOLFx75]

@@chinguunerdenebadrakh7022 "That sounds like a bodyslam by the Americans. Japanese heavily lacked mobility whereas the Americans were the most mobile combatant of WW2." One phrase: Kasserine pass. USAs military started WWII in absolutely dreadful shape. The mobility came later, and USA never truly mastered desert warfare. It's easy to win when you have over 10 times more troops and closer to a THOUSAND times more supplies. But early in the Pacific? Before USA started learning lessons?

[@pola5392]

​​@@DIREWOLFx75 I'm sure they'd win with the power of friendship

[@DIREWOLFx75]

@@pola5392 What friendship? As various officials of USA has openly said, USA does not have friends, it has interests. Which BTW, is one of absolute dumbest things i've ever heard from actual officials of any nation.

[@JAlucard77]

There is a sub continent under New Zealand that they recently discovered. Apparently, the mountains of New Zealand are the highest point of the continent.

[@fwMMVII]

Isn't that cool? It was called Sundaland.

[@beestings22]

@@fwMMVIIit’s actually zealandia! Sundaland is the subcontinent of south east Asia

[@SorinPetre-ir1wf]

Yeah usually the highest point of a continent is a mountain

[@jackwood594]

No dis but pretty sure this has been common knowledge for 10 years now…

[@fwMMVII]

@@beestings22 Oh, sorry! You're right!

[@ThatLeaf]

Somewhere in the Mu Continent universe, Cody is making a video that asks "What if Mu never existed and there were only islands in the Pacific?"

[@chendaforest]

what a crazy world it would be without Mu 🤣

[@Tyulenin]

Cody wouldn't exist in such universe

[@Nemenis]

@@Tyulenin why

[@Tyulenin]

@@Nemenis in short: butterfly effect and america

[@KawaiiCanadafreememes]

The Muniverse

[@ChessedGamon]

whenever I hear more about pseudo-archeologists and their worldbuilding theories they remind me more and more of an evil version of JRR Tolkien

[@troll-bf4uo]

@im calling saul ratio

[@greenlightxbpg]

@@troll-bf4uo damn you ratioed him hard

[@okayboozy]

@im sacred I fucking fell for it, how can I be so naïve

[@robertemerson1087]

Evil version of JRR Tolkien, so H.P Lovecraft? The only thing in the Pacific is R’lyeh?

[@lilboogie9812]

It makes me want to sit down and write a D&D campaign 😂

[@zombiedalekweck2243]

I think that the Megafauna would probably survive in Mu, purely due to how big it is. Yet I can imagine that they'd be incredibly endangered and wouldn't be that numerous, with them surviving where the humans were less numerous.

[@wavelength0123]

They would probably end up just like the bison in the Midwest, killed off during and after colonization by outsiders

[@zombiedalekweck2243]

@@wavelength0123 yeah

[@pedroroque829]

Megafauna wasn't extinct because of humans

[@zombiedalekweck2243]

@pedro roque it was human overhunting. For Marsupials, definitely.

[@masonrussell9951]

D

[@vertexed5540]

Imagining a Pacific Theater in WW2 with Mu existing is real crazy and pretty interesting

[@KougarManx468]

It would be a massacre of a great or worse scale , everything that would encounter the word wars would end up in an apocalypse .

[@C-Farsene_5]

Mu is essentially comparable to Europe and Asia at that state

[@Losowy]

But what if it changed course of history enough to prevent ww2 we know?

[@vertexed5540]

@@Losowy that's not as fun to imagine so I'm going to pretend it isn't a possibility

[@TheCommunistColin]

It's actually really interesting to think about the idea of two Polynesian civilizations, one maybe Chinese-inspired and one Inca-inspired, having vastly different religious and cultural ideals and clashing over them, while still speaking a somewhat mutually intelligible language and sharing lots of basic culture with each other. Imagine what those wars would look like. This is fascinating to think about even if the dude who invented Mu was bonkers.

[@davidegaruti2582]

Their culture would be awsome tbh , I'd love to see how a revealed religion (Like buddism,christianity,islam,confucianism) by the Mu-pepole would look like , This essentially creates another great civilization

[@rodpadev]

I think China wouldn't exist, not as in today, having MU smack in the center would change a lot more than what was imagined. I think MU would have the possibility of being the center of the civilized world, who has to say even Europe as today existed. The possibiliies are endless and this video really shows how egocentrical we can be in the sense of, we think that we matter, while the truth is, we don't and most likely no country that exists today would exist in that timeline

[@DeadSpacedOut]

The Mu Civil Wars... Now that might be interesting as well.

[@niklastjitra1323]

One comparable example is Vietnam and Cambodia. They both speak Austroasiatic languages but one is Sinicized and the other is Indianized

[@uggali]

Why is Polynesian culture not interesting enough for you in it’s own right? Why you wanna bastardise our proud and ancient culture? Austronesians are the most expansive civilisation in ancient history. From Taiwan to Papua to Hawaii to Rapanui to New Zealand to Madagascar the the largest civilisational area on earth

[@thewalking4473]

Hearing Cody call a theory "batshit stupid" made my day for some unexplainable reason.

[@zenith6939]

Don’t click on that link if you don’t have *Threat Protection* enabled.

[@thewalking4473]

@@zenith6939 Thank you for the words of warning, sir.

[@nodnarbleahcim5097]

@4:55

[@thewalking4473]

@@nodnarbleahcim5097 Thanks for the time, bro.

[@Tounushi]

"Batshit" ... "Mierda de *mu*rciélago" Coincidence?!

[@heartlights]

i flew intercontinental several times as a young one, and I remember sitting window seat and looking out at the ocean expanse for miles for long moments spanning several minutes at a time, and thinking how easy it would be to hide something out there. So much space, we don't really process it most of the time. You could absolutely land a space ship the size of a small country in the middle of the water and -if you knew the plane paths and could avoid being in them -there's no WAY anyone would ever find you out there. I also remember picturing sea creatures as big as I could see. They could totally exist out there and there would be literally no way to detect them. Crazy how much of the earth is undiscovered by humans.

[@0piumaeternum]

ong like if aliens come from the right angle, they can see a virtually almost water planet and see that nothing is there and become uninterested

[@blackwind3131]

@@0piumaeternumthey’d see light from the cities

[@davisdf3064]

That is, until satellites appear, they are pretty much the "know all land" card in "LIFE 'the game'"

[@JakeKoenig]

Um... you do realize that radar and satellites exist, right? You couldn't land a spaceship anywhere on Earth undetected. What year do you think this is?

[@alexhask8523]

Assuming our tech is better than their stealth tech.@@JakeKoenig

[@Alexander-ru3qc]

If Mu started Human contact around 1500 bc, why wouldn't horses eventually be traded for goods ,that makes Mu easier to traverse and accelerates its human advancement

[@valritz1489]

I can see Mu being a serious contender on the world stage, because being on that trade route would make them UNIMAGINABLY wealthy. Since the climate is so consistent, societies would have an easier time spreading over large distances, so you've got the potential for centralization and empire. The real juice to inject would be a couple fictional invasions by an Indian or Chinese power to spread the good word of our lord and savior The Horse to Mu, and things snowball from there. With the large central plains of the continent to really thrive in, horses would make linking up West and East overland truly feasible. It'd take a while to actually take off, sure, but after hanging out and chilling and hunting megasloths for a thousand years, suddenly the plains nomads have horses--and maybe more importantly, the places just bordering the plains nomads now have horses. All it takes is one Cyrus from a plains-adjacent backwater city-state to sweep in toward that wealthy west coast with horse archers and light cavalry, conquer that peninsula and get the supercharge from the triangular trade, and you've got a real son of a bitch of an empire on your hands. By the Common Era, I could see the friction in that region creating a second Mediterranean pressure cooker environment out there, and then all bets are off. You've got Chinese dynasties in Mu, Munese dynasties in China, religious wars between the blend of weird Hindu-Inca syncretized East and a newly converted Muslim West, shit's wild.

[@queeny5613]

Awesome this is a great theory

[@johncloud3823]

This- massive biologically rich landscape bordered by Japanese and Chinese empires? You’d better beleive there would be at least one imperial power here!!

[@kirkmarcuz635]

Damn what an awsome theory

[@shinefox2116]

I’d honestly kinda view Europe as a backwater part of the world in this scenario. Spanish gold and silver plundered from the Americas fueled European economies and allowed Europe to advance. The Atlantic would no longer be the primary economic power for the past 500 years but probably mainly Asia-Mu

[@twistedyogert]

Parts of Mu might be captured by the CCP and live under Com-Muism.

[@lawjef]

Instead of mu rising sea levels, why not assume there is less water? I mean you are assuming a lot more land, why does it displace water rather than replace water? Both are reasonable assumptions since, you know, they are totally made up. Would be interesting video. And easier to conceive the consequences of MU

[@beepbop6542]

@Safwaan Not if it is all replaced by the exact same amount of land. Then the sea level would be unchanged.

[@TheEgyptianRiver]

@u know me You donut rolled me :(

[@shonenjumpmagneto]

Is mean its what a child would do.

[@LifeEnemy]

True, this is all hypothetical. But there's a marginally-better argument for assuming a consistent volume of water on earth given the processes involved. But obviously that also has FAR greater impact on world history. I'm guessing that's why he didn't assume any change in sea levels for most of the video 😋 Edit: we can also assume the added land mass came from changes to the geography of Earth's crust, rather than any 'new' mass being added

[@memesarekeem]

Less water changes a lot more than just the sea level. That could change the entire Earth's gravity if you consider the differences between the Mass and said water. Edit: This works for either A: If Mu is a true continent and as such wasn't just placed onto Earth, as removing water would reduce the Earth's mass, as well as B: if Mu appeared out of thin air replacing the water, as we cannot assume its exact mass.

[@rainbs2nd957]

When I was a child, around 12-14, I used to imagine these kinds of things, I've written a few books/stories throughout my childhood and one of them was about a civilization in a massive island between Norway, Iceland and the Faroe Islands. Obviously I didn't have enough knowledge and study to imagine a realistic climate, fauna, flora and more, like you did, but it was a really fun project.

[@PolioInc]

I believe that if Mu existed, it would have been the pacific empire, maybe not as advanced as Europe, but definitely very advanced, as there is just so many trade to be had, that ideas would spread fast enough for naval type ideas or something like that would have exploded

[@Nazuiko]

Wonder if, especially if theres any trade with eastern China, the Mesoamericans would not just be better protected against Old World disease, but also better armed; After all, china did invent gunpowder many centuries prior to the Age of Discovery. And such a trade network of a Western Pacific Triangle and an Eastern Mu Triangle would create remarkable wealth, but also spur conflict that might drive acceleration of arms development; Even if they never quite hit an industrial revolution, theyd be better armed and protected against Spanish conquistadors and with fewer deaths from plague, have the armies and economies in reserve to defend themselves better; Not to mention, potential allies in the Muvian countries they trade with.

[@lucasb9285]

I argue europe wont be as advance. Mu have acces to all the world. Asia and the americas meaning their trade woukd be way better than europe trades

[@fadlicuy2922]

with the land mass that big, I gonna assume it's a continent with multiple countries. not one big empire.

[@PixalGD]

The trade zones in Asia would be immense meaning they’d probably close in on the US and become the second largest or largest economy. The benefits of trading by sea is a lot, and considering this nation would also probably have to have a lot of water, Considering it’s entire basis was On islands, it’s waterways would help with geography and they could also just easily build canals. The pacific empire would probably have high HDI too

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

Lucas B 1) trade volume (and thus rate of information exchange and cultural competition) isn't just about proximity but also the terrain. Europe became more advanced than the rest of the world partially due to how easy trade could connect due to the abnormal number of navigable rivers and the abnormal number of natural harbours. Its why Europe developed faster than other areas along trade routes (and its why coastal Europe, ie Western and Southern Europe, developed faster than Eastern Europe). So Mu's development would also depend on how good their coastlines are for trade volume. The more peninsulas the better, not just proximity. 2) trade isn't the only driveing force of techology. The biggest driveing force is military competition (and other local competition). Europe's large number of rivers and mountains helps create inteneral competition, but it's lack of natural barriers to the east also allows new players to shake things up (the almost continuous phases of steppe invasions from the Indo-Europeans to the mongol successors and thousands of others), despite otherwise good terrain the reason China often stagnated is its good natural borders meaning internal stability could last longer before being shaken up. Mu being a separate continent gives it even better natural borders than China, and thus even if its internal geography is similar to Europe/China, its geography would make its tech development more like China, but dialed up (ie likely even longer peroids of stability and stagnation). Its defensability and centre of trade would likely also give it an arrogance similar to irl China which further agrivated its periods of stagnation. Irl China went through periods of massive tech advancement (due to being located well for trade and good internal terrain) and periods of massive staganaiton. Mu would be similar but even more exteme of its internal geography is good. 3) in adition to good rivers and coastlines for large volume of trade, and plenty of natural intneral divsions, the tiger things that allowed Europe and China to advance faster than average is a good temperate climate. Hotter and colder climates reduce tech and societal advancement. Mu would not have a temperate climate. Its most northerally point is tropical. Assuming no other change to the world's climate (see no4) it would be most arrid desert. Its centre and west specifically. Its east would likely be hot and humid like the amazon, West africa or Indonesia. This means its societies would be hamstrung. Its East and centre would be dry and very under populated, very poor for trade and human habitation. This would also affect trade heading to the eastern part from Asia (as trade has to cross an ocean and then sail past a massive desert). The eastern part would be thick tropical rainforest and jungle, and similar have populations and deseases, likely very decentralised and staganent. It would be like a worse south east Asia. Hot and humid with lots of tropical deseases but even further from the temperate centres of tech development, separated by an ocean and a vast desert. 4) ofcaurse its existance would affect all of the earth's geography, but espeically the Pacific coasts. The whole world would be dryier, espeically the Pacific coasts. This so due to less evaporation from smaller oceans.its also because there is disrupted Pacific currents. Europe wpudl probably be more like China irl (still mostly temporate but with even more cold and arrid Western Europe, creating a large natural border like China irl), China would have a narrower temperate zone, and mu would be even more desert. This would likely result in mu being isolated. 5) If antartica (as a continent, and is instead a bunch of frozen islands) doesn't exist in this altensitve world then you would have a mu similar to no3, but China and the americas would be different. Due to the change in ocean currents, etc. Mu's very existance woudk alter climate everywhere, but espeically the irl Pacific coasts. Which affects their trajectory and thus their affect on mu. But in all scenarios Mu is rather poor for civilisation even if its coasts and rivers were good.

[@joshuakleopfer751]

Is it weird I want to see a scenario where Lemuria, Zelandia, Atlantis and Mu all were existing continents at once?

[@Broyel47n3]

+ Greater Adria and Doggerland

[@andrefilipe9042]

According to the New Age people. They all existed at some point and they tell tall tales about Atlantis going to war with the Lemurians and using the equivalent of an ancient weapon to create massive waves and drown the continent of Lemuria.

[@joshuakleopfer751]

Throw in Green Antarctica too while we're at it

[@wetzel4806]

Same, so much so I made a custom map of it in civ. Celt Mu going strong!

[@rileymahoney4118]

it would be the most batshit insane episode but would be awesome.

[@supernovel7514]

Meta Pyshical Archeology is a term I never expected to hear but I imagine even flat earthers and ancient alien scientists would think they're crazy

[@ma_junia]

"There's only room in here for one meta physical seeker"

[@brighamrichins3]

No, the meta physical acrcheologists have been absorbed by them. I follow a couple on KZbin because I like hearing their theories, whether I gree with them or not.

[@jacekwojciechowski3679]

Another consequence is that for sure America north of Amazon, south of Texas, west of Andes and the Caribbean would probably know how to make Iron weapons. By the time of Columbus arrival it'd probably be around 800-1000 year old set of skills they learned from traders of Mu.

[@lucasb9285]

They knew how to make them tho, theyre expert with rock and bronze. Is just iron was not as common as in other places in the americas

[@nekajuii]

That was such a long way to say "central america"

[@TheCsel]

Also corn, potatoes, peppers. etc might move westward from Americas, into Mu and into Eurasian much much sooner. This could have great effect on the food supplies of the ancient world. High populations and more stable crops would massively change things.

[@yeeyee5057]

Now imagine if all the hypothetical landmasses were real? Mu, Atlantis, Lemuria, Zealandia, and all the obscure ones as well.

[@shanemcdowall]

Zealandia is not "hypothetical". It was a 4.9 million km2 continent. New Zealand and New Caledonia comprise most of the 6% still above water.

[@yeeyee5057]

@@shanemcdowall yeah well I'm talking about a resurfaced version

[@shzarmai]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Adria - What if Greater Adria still existed?>

[@peteynutt4104]

means earth is drier and colder

[@Project_VideoGame]

colder would be great just need a simple moisturizer

[@CJ_Espinoza]

I’d argue MU would have more likely been settled by the ancestors of Native Australians rather than the Polynesians. The ancestors of indigenous Australians arrived there when sea levels were low and nearly connected Asia to Australia. Depending on Mu’s geography it may have also been connected and allowed for human migration tens of thousands of years ago

[@CJ_Espinoza]

@The Philosoraptor I mean there’s a chance Mu wouldn’t have been connected to Sunda and Sahul but, it it was it likely would have been settled by humans 70,000+ years ago when the Australian aboriginals arrived in Australia

[@SomasAcademy]

Australia was never connected to Asia, the gap was just smaller; the ancestors of Native Australians (and Papuans) would still have needed to boat between several islands to get from Sunda (a southeast Asian peninsula that existed during the ice age) to Sahul (the then geographically united Australian continent, containing Australia and New Guinea). You may be right about people from Australia (the continent, not the country) being the first to reach Mu though; early Papuans also island hopped across Melanesia, which would bridge the gap between Mu and New Guinea (as well as partly being included in Mu), well before the Polynesian migrations.

[@SeymoreSparda]

I think so too. In my head, I theorised that Australia practically repelled my Austronesian, Polynesian, Melanesian and Micronesian ancestors from ever outright settling on the continent owing to its desert climate and the sheer vast expanse of the continent. Maybe, in this alternate universe, perhaps my ancestors would have settled on Australia's humid western and northern coasts, while the ancestors of Australian Aborigines would have settled in the desert regions of the south and east?

[@zanzaben]

I thought that as well but seeing as how new guinea wasn't populated until ~3,000 BC due to no land bridge I find it very unlikely there would somehow be one connecting Mu.

[@slevenmcdicheal]

They're the same guys, they're both descended from settlers from Indonesia

[@Voyager1excavation]

Nah, that huge peninsula sticking out to Asia like a sore thumb would be a constant battlefield between Japan, the Ming dinisty trading fleet, and the Polynesian

[@redfox-zj5mn]

I’m curious how times zones would work on this continent. Cuz the international date line cuts it in half. Imagine walking to your house and it’s 20 hours behind

[@berrybluebird3842]

I am glad we finally got to talk about Mu for once.

[@modmaker7617]

We do not talk about Mu. Mu. Mu.

[@that1worldcitizen152]

If this was real, then the modern pacific time would be crazy and chaotic

[@druidictroy1157]

@@that1worldcitizen152 what? You don't think all of the Pacific is one time zone do you?

[@that1worldcitizen152]

@@druidictroy1157 no what I mean is the modern era of the pacific, you know, from around the 1500’s up to modern times

[@druidictroy1157]

@@that1worldcitizen152 ahhh ok. Sorry about that. That makes a lot more sense. But it's KZbin comment section so I never know what I'm running across. 😋

[@ArcticTron]

I really love that the continent of Mu does in fact look kind of like a slightly more bulbous New Guinea.

[@NormalChannel95]

It's a giantic version of New Guinea yes

[@LexlutherVII]

​@@NormalChannel95lol on steroids 😂

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodsc1447]

meanwhile in an alternate universe, we're all sitting here watching "what if Mu never existed"

[@joshuabautch8936]

Y'know, the climate zones, and therefore biomes of Mu would IMO be an AMAZING Idea for a hybrid between alternate evolution and seeded world project

[@conserva-chan2735]

I would love a video on if the Sino-Soviet split never happened or was patched up in the 70s. It would be a wacky and awesome scenario.

[@FleurLavie]

@today was a good day stupid bot

[@moonshinei]

@Safwaan a unification of Yugoslavia and Bulgaria… would still be a Yugoslavia by etymology lol

[@aam7670]

69th like nice🤙🏻

[@conserva-chan2735]

@@moonshinei congratulations! You've found an even stupider multi ethnic regime in the Balkans than Rumelia or Austria-Hungary!

[@Attaxalotl]

The USSR gets one more S? Union of Sino/Soviet Republics? USSSR?

[@Firmus777]

"Sometimes we don't have to be realistic, lets just say there's a continent in there and it doesn't effect global climate too much." "Anyway... lets reflect on how sea levels are effected, no coastal civilizations would exist as we know them."

[@nosferatuoddz7974]

He ignored the science later on the video

[@board-qu9iu]

@@nosferatuoddz7974 yeah it was a weird moment is IMO the quality of the video fell by a lot

[@Firmus777]

@@nosferatuoddz7974 yea, I know, it just came out of nowhere and I thought it was funny and a little annoying. Sometimes Cody can't control himself.

[@cringe7391]

If wasn't just the sea levels, even if they were the same just the fact of something like a trade network from the Americas to Europe being possible would butterfly everything

[@desnaymk]

I ended up deciding to use the idea of Mu as a location for a story I'm in the planning stages of, and the way I get around the whole how it would work in the world is that it technically resides in like a pocket dimension, kind of. There is this thing in Pirates of the Caribbean that the ocean is different for pirates than for normal people, with an example being that pirates can encounter the edge of the world that doesn't exist because it is a myth and all myths are true on the ocean to a pirate. That is sort of the idea I've used for Mu in my worldbuilding, where it only actually exists for certain people, and other people not in that group can't interact with it at all, and will even just, sail right through it as it doesn't exist to them.

[@johnkangas6594]

I've stood on the mountain peaks of Mu. It's a real place. I have evidence Mahalo

[@chrisaddictions4485]

no one cares

[@eyesofdeath01]

*clicks video* “please don’t let this be a conspiracy” *isn’t a conspiracy* “hell yeah!”

[@StichyWichy21]

I know you like to keep your alternate histories grounded and logical, but I do enjoy when you go the extra step of complete fictional wild speculation

[@valritz1489]

It's the Mythbusters method. "Yes, this is bullshit. But how much dynamite do we have to use to make it NOT bullshit?"

[@mstticr]

I disagree with the ending statements that Mu would eventually be cut up by European Powers. It’s underestimating just how much Mu would positively impact oceanic cultures, and overestimating the power of European nations. A main reason why Oceanic / Native American cultures couldn’t really defend against European conquest was almost exclusively because they simply didn’t have enough resources and communication / organization. They were stuck in tiny, habitation-poor islands with thousands of miles of ocean between each other. Colonial powers could easily island hop, conquering one small island after the other. With Mu existence though, these Oceanic cultures suddenly have complete access to a massive continent, fit for large scale habitation and civilization. And with their connection to Asia, they would likely be right behind the two other continents in technology and industry. At worst, I could easily see civilizations on Mu being capable of resisting widespread European colonialism in a similar way to Asia; where although marked by colonialism, the continent still retains it’s cultural independence and becomes a large power at the turn of the century. At best, Mu could probably be an active and viable threat to Europe, being a peer to peer rival.

[@nicholasrocha2414]

I disagree with you, no power on earth of the era could resist the Era of European dominance, Asia didn't really do well, Japan was the only exception, everyone else was humiliated or out right conquered. Lets look at that track record: The subcontinent of India wasn't united as rule and most of the history of the subcontinent shows that, to China couldn't resist the empires of the era, Thailand had to give up land to the French and British as a buffer state, Burma, Vietnam, the sultans of the western half of indo-pasific where all conquered dispute having comparable technology. The sultans even had ottoman cannons. Part of their fall to Spain and the Dutch was the economic collapse that occurred when the Ming Chinese isolated themselves they weakened the states around them as China was the center of the world's trade at the time. Looking at how far east and along the equator Mu is, it is next to the eastern, less develop half of the indo-pasific, the Philippines, Australia, New Guinea, & New Zealand where all by and large tribal and in spite of being settled for far far longer then Mu they possessed no big civilizations that even approach the larger states of Asia. Unlike that region, with both the distance and short time frame, domestication would take far far to long, that means no draft animals to build large civilizations with. It doesn't matter if they have a lot of rivers and river deltas good for city states and kingdoms, so did the eastern half of the indo-pasific. The city of cahokia is a good example of what they are more likely to look like, more then any of the city states of central America. 2000 years is not enough time for a strong civilization to form that wouldn't anything more then an irrigation society like that of Mesopotamia or the Aztecs, and that is being generous given the large size of the seas between the Philippines, Australia, New Guinea, & New Zealand and then overcome the tribes that continually raid into these civilizations even before the horse was domesticated. An that bit he had with a mediterranean of the pacific sound funny to me when considering new the waters around Austrialia, New Guinea, & New Zealand are very rough, and that the sea would be much larger then the Mediterranean Sea by far. That leaves them with, in the best of cases, city states, and the jungles also present another issue as the inability to burn down the forest leave them in the best of cases like the central American city states. This region was also hit hard by the old world plagues a little later then those of the new world. Contact with the Spanish will see their population cut by 90% and from that they will never recover just as the new world tribes didn't. This is what really determines the battles with the 16th-19th century maritime empires. Even if they did the Spanish conquests of the new world and the Philippines, as well as the Dutch conquests of west indo-pasific like Java and the spice islands, who did resist, show Mu's own low development and tribal nature would ensure their control is limited to insight of the coast for both these early empires, just as the Spanish struggled to push north into the Americas and were limited to forts in California and Texas, the Dutch didn't even have a proper fort on New Guinea or Australia, it's just not profitable for the effort necessary. It's the later British and Americans that could take the continent with their settlers. The French would have issues projecting power and enforcing claims but nothing is out of the cards. With the plagues of Europe coming, the native have the same issues as those of the new world, whose population never recovered even centuries after the plagues sweep through. It doesn't matter if they have a lot of rivers and river deltas good for city states and kingdoms, so did the eastern half of the indo-pasific. It doesn't matter if they have a lot of rivers and river deltas good for city states and kingdoms, so did the eastern half of the indo-pasific. A new British settler colony is made, and the Americans settle the better northern half as early as the 1880s Japan get nothing and would have to fight these to powers and their settled populations, and just as Hawaii was seen as integral by that time, so to would the Americans so the norther holding of Mu. The British and Dutch would be exhausted and loose it all as without india and Jave their Empires where unsuitable, while the US would be at the height of it's power, it's keeping the northern half as it's manifest destiny would have never ended in 1890s. This is a timeline with a massive US power, and a second Australia.

[@mstticr]

@@nicholasrocha2414 You aren’t actually considering the fact that Mu *is an actual continent off the coast of Asia*. Your still thinking that this is the same Polynesians as in our own history. You assume that Mu wouldn’t be settled until Polynesian started sailing, and so there would only be 2,000 year of development. Yet this is faulty logic, since if Mu actually existed, it would’ve absolutely had humans settling around the same time as Australia, some 50,000 years ago. You assume that Mu would be decimated by old world plagues, but fail to realize that Mu would have constant and consistent contact with Asia, and by extension, Europe, and have immunities. You apparently don’t realize that the tribal nations of oceanic were hampered by their lack of suitable terrain, terrain that would be found in Mu. You say that the vanguard asian nations fell due to a lack of trading power, but don’t realize that in this world, Mu would become as much of an economic power as China. You say that the jungles of Mu would stop progress, yet the massive inner heartland, ripe for farmland. You aren’t comprehending that Mu is an actual continent onpar with all of the same advantages that Europe would have.

[@Username-le4eq]

If ur listening he said that in these scenario mu didnt changed much of history so he still included the colonization.

[@The-Plaguefellow]

@@nicholasrocha2414 "Japan was the only exception" *_Conveniently forgets about Thailand and how it dodged European Colonialism by using European advisors and contacts to reach a technological and cultural level that would have made the European powers uncomfortable with "civilizing" an already-civilized country._*

[@mstticr]

@@Username-le4eq I mean I get that, but I disagree with the premise that Oceanic Colonialism would be exactly the same as in our own history.

[@javiersaugar376]

21:18. Omg, The Road to El Dorado Goldposting. I knew I recognized that meme template anywhere. I use to make memes for that page on Facebook. Lot of fun, really hope you're a member there Cody!

[@DragonWhoFoundTheInternet]

Considering Mu would in fact be present in this timeline, it would also change the shape of the rest of the world in general over history which sounds really cool and might actually decide the outcome of many events we currently consider serious wins or losses. I suppose we'll never know what these events could have been, but it's fun to think of.

[@PakBallandSami]

A non topic but still interesting thing to learn about here (since you were talking about this on twitter i did my own research about the pacific) The eastern Pacific region, which extends southward from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, is relatively narrow and is associated with the American cordilleran system of almost unbroken mountain chains, the coastal ranges of which rise steeply from the western shores of North and South America. The continental shelf, which runs parallel to it, is narrow, while the adjacent continental slope is very steep. Significant oceanic trenches in this region are the Middle America Trench in the North Pacific and the Peru-Chile Trench in the South Pacific.

[@davidnotonstinnett]

I’m not sure if you mean to say “I did mu own research about the pacific” and it is going to give me an aneurism.

[@shycracker]

Nice observations, never put a thought at inter-linked mountain chain would be possible between continent, hypothetically speaking

[@YuriCcrt34]

Hey, i follow u on twitter :)

[@PakBallandSami]

@@YuriCcrt34 Thanks :)

[@drevas7779]

I'm just wondering why the people on Mu would have been relatively weak enough for the Spanish to basically bully land out of them, with their own continent and traving with Asia, they would likely have the metals and technology to keep a good hold on their land

[@TitanDarwin]

I feel like the video runs into some determinism issues, i.e. "well, no non-European power was able to hold off European colonisation in our timeline, sooooo..." Nevermind that a trade network like mentioned in the video would very likely shift dynamics a LOT. For example, an actual trade route stretching from East Asia all the way to the Americas would mean native tribes and empires could have likely gotten access to gunpowder, which would have made initial contact with Europeans... less one-sided.

[@Memelord-md5hs]

I agree especially since while they wouldn't get Asian trade nothing says they couldn't receive trade from European nations which would then trickle to North and South America Honestly Spain conquered the Aztecs because they got all the native tribes to rise up against then and then disease began wiping them out They would've been far more advanced in metallurgy and animal husbandry if that continent in the middle traded with them

[@Midorikonokami]

Completely agree. A continent that big would probably mean stable systems the colonisers would have found hard to squash. Heck, this is a fantasy scenario. I vote that the civilization from this continent will be even better than the whites at colonising OTHER continents and in this timeline all maps are Mu-centrific.

[@Memelord-md5hs]

@@Midorikonokami agreed, they would have most likely been able to conquer parts of spain and the Americas, as well sa Africa although they'd hit a limit as i dont think they'd be able to take to much beyond the coastlines, the real question is whether they would side with the muslim caliphate or Christian kingdoms as well as what religion would be dominant there. its such an interesting conundrum especially since almost everyone in europe especially the greeks would consider this new continent to be atlantis

[@Midorikonokami]

@@Memelord-md5hs exactly. It may even have been called that on 'western' maps for a while, and which political system they would have had too! Olygarchy? Monarchy? Diarchy? Dare I dream, democracy?? Or maybe something in between like Venice had, which brought stability for decades. Or even even, the beautiful system that the Native Americans had that the 'american' Europeans -stole- ahem, adopted. How THAT would have effected the world politics and how it would be different or the same today... And whether they had a lot of natural resources or few, and how they would have - in this scenario - probably stomped the British into the mud they came from.

[@somedumbgayplantboi3012]

it could also change the dateline a bit, if not straight up putting it in the atlantic, as having it in the middle of a large continent like that was what they were trying to avoid. the dateline was strategically put so that it wasnt over any island in the pacific, even weaving around some islands. as people would find it jarring when travling across land if they had to adjust their calendars everytime they walked over the line. it it was put in the atlantic, that would mean america would be the furthest east, and western europe (specifically spain and portugal, maybe iceland) would be the places furthest west when you consider GMT line and the dateline to be the lines between east and west. that would mean that somewhere in turkey, india or even western australia would be where we calculated time from instead of greenwich in the uk.

[@monkeyseatcatfood]

Been putting off watching your videos for a little while, no matter how interesting they looked. But I finally came around to it (just avoiding some work, lmao). But this was really very interesting! Might watch a few more!

[@ChessedGamon]

this channel is gradually explaining all the civ 6 continent names to me and I appreciate it

[@Tokru86]

If you went with the premise, that Mu would be settled only around 1500 BC there would be a very very high chance, that the east coast would still be completely unsettled/unknown to make any difference for the Americas. Polynesians only settled the pacific so fast, because distances between islands are so large. With a giant continent people wouldn't travel hundreds of miles to settle new lands. They would go out and find the next best place a few dozen miles away maybe. No need to skip thousands of miles. The settlement of this continent would thus be much much slower than the settlement of the pacific islands.

[@monhi64]

Idk people have a tendency to walk in one direction until they run out of space too. Hard to say

[@wadeperry4294]

Actually, that’s another possible cultural and geopolitical shift for Asia and Oceania: What does the presence of a frontier end up doing? A space that is open for population movement from what has been historically one of the most developed areas of the world?

[@Rhaenarys]

People are curious and often do set out for new lands. The distance from islands and even mainland would be so small, you'd literally be able to at least see a glimpse of it depending on the atmosphere conditions of the time. This alone would set off people's curiosity enough to want to go explore. It actually would've been settled long before that simply because of that fact, to the point we'd literally be finding cousin ancestors fossils there. It would def change the entire world and our history.

[@dv9239]

They only need one "promised land" land narrative to move inwards so the chances of them populating the entire continent are actually much higher

[@DaStefanP]

dont u think that the presence of mega fauna and a lack of competing humans would spark a population boost and there for increase settlement of the continent? look at all the other continents, humas are every where. i personally would be VERY interested in japanese samurai culture finding mu, since they are so cough, cough, friendly, cough. i could see japanese culture doing its thing on there if the other asians dont beat them to it.

[@Chris.Davies]

There already is one. It's called New Zealand. Wrongly described in the past as an island, in fact, New Zealand is a part of the large and mostly submerged continent of Zealandia.

[@evanlee4289]

So, another important question is: How would the International Date Line look like if Mu existed? Would it zigzag around the whole continent?

[@chancekeith3219]

The rise of Europe had a lot to do with geography, and I see that possibly Mu could have all the qualifications to rival the Europeans. As said, their continent would be horizontal, leading to a climate that is relatively the same. Second of all, it's skinny enough that 2 civilizations on opposite sides of the continent could sail around to trade with each other with relatively good speed, sparking more exchange of goods and ideas. These ideas would lead to massive technological advancements not seen in Polynesian history in our timeline. And, this leads into my last point which is that a substitute for the horse or cow could evolve to make trading/farming easier, leading to the possibility of massive centralized empires built around agriculture, trade and production. This could lead to an empire similar to Rome, which straddled the Mediterranean, except this empire would instead be straddled by the ocean, but the idea is basically the same. Trade by the sea is everything, and agriculture and probably slavery is the backbone of the empire. Slaves might be taken from the New World, but over time American empires will import the same animals the Mu people had, leading to them also rising. In this timeline, when the Vikings came to America they might see civilizations near equal to their own, and Europeans would probably not be able to subdue the people of the New World. A funny change I think would happen is that instead of East and West being divided through the Pacific Ocean, it would probably be divided through the Atlantic Ocean instead due to cultural similarities between the Mu and other Asian people, and the fact that if you divided down the Pacific it would cut through the continent. In this timeline, the New World would probably be considered the far east, and Europe and Africa would be the far west.

[@AethelwulfBretwalda]

This was a better scenario than the video.

[@redstripedsocks5245]

If they were trading with East Asia they would definitely get cows, pigs, chickens, and horses as they are all native to that area and that's not even considering potential native domesticable animals on Mu.

[@redstripedsocks5245]

Okay horses aren't exactly native to east Asia but they got to Europe from the steppe, they would get to Mu.

[@DarkLordoftheMeme]

Western Mu would have strong links with China, which means gunpowder could easily reach them. This could lead to a state on the Mu peninsular that would be capable of, at the bare minimum, fending off European colonisers. Furthermore if Eurasian dieseases reached the Americas via Mu, the Spanish would struggle to conquer the Amiercas. I would imagine the Aztec empire becoming a vassal of Spain which would eventually revolt, while the Incan empire would likely never fall due to its mountainous terrain and the Spanish being tied down by rebellions in Mexico. Contact with Europe would mean these two empires would eventually also gain access to guns, horses and European-style ships, so eastern Mu might become a battle ground between the Incan, Aztec and West Mu empires.

[@Zakkious]

So Mu is Calradia

[@Windona]

Wouldn't Mu's existence lead to the possibility of its own Empire, ala the Chinese, Indian, and Japanese? If it's near such a wealthy area and has such consistent climate, a decent river valley is a great place for an empire, and a pressure cooker of various competing places could easily make a strong one. Depending on its strength, it might be the one doing the colonizing.

[@intelligencecube6752]

I agree, but there's a couple barriers that they'd have to break through first. The ones that immediately pop into my mind are how they're in a tropical environment and how that's horrible for diseases. The other thing that popped to mind is what kind of crops would they have? Would it be like how the Maori farmed? Since they're connected into this whole trade network with East Asia, I'd imagine that Rice Farming coupled with their climate would lead to quite a bit of Mu Rice being cultivated. Rice farming comes with different issues that need solving, if they do flood irrigation than they need to have a much more centralized government to maintain their flood canals, and with China being so close they'd definitely pull a lot of inspiration from the Chinese. What I can assume is that due to the combination of their climate and local trading partners, they'd be a relatively Authoritarian country/countries on that Western Coast. I guess much of it does depend on Geography, if the interior is highly mountainous, then it'd be rather difficult to form a single Political entity that unites them early on, whereas if it's a flat plain than that would become significantly easier. Heck, going off of an extension of the Geography question, what the heck is happening with nonrenewable resources? I'd imagine that there'd be whole new reserves of Oil and Gas due such a massive change in Tectonic activity over the past couple million years. Anyway, it'd be possible but there's a lot of factors that we'd need to know in order to discuss that potentiality in any significant level of detail.

[@crimsonflood1643]

idk if they would be there long enough b4 other empires came knocking

[@masterdeetectiv9520]

@@intelligencecube6752 well an entirely unique staple crop could evolve on the continent that the mu people could use. Tropical climates havent really hindered empires, as shown by many indian empires of the past. The mughals were even the richest empire on the planet at one point On the contrary a tropical climate is better as its easier to grow crops

[@logandupay9596]

Of course the 1963 film "Atragon" Has a depiction of Mu which might be accurate even if the continent isn't on the surface and just submerged underwater.

[@user-zc4sx9ig6p]

​@@masterdeetectiv9520 Mughal were not tropical, only southern and eastern India is which they never conquered

[@davidcooke8005]

There used to be a large land mass off the PNW coast called Siletzia. It straddled two tectonic plates, and split as it crashed into the mainland 50 millionish years ago. Half of it is now the PNW coast west of the Coastal Range, and the other half moseyed on up to form the Yakutat Peninsula in Alaska. Dunno if it was quite big enough to qualify as a continent but it was a large land mass in the Pacific Ocean. It also didn't sink beneath the waves, it crashed into the mainland.

[@joshuaW5621]

Seeing a world where Mu existed seems rather interesting, although I don’t think I would be able to process the thought of how things would be different quite like you have.

[@ChristianThurston]

The Milanesians, and Micronesians would play a large role along with the Polynesians. These are three very distinct cultures and I understand in this video "Polynesian" is a standin for all three, but it's worth considering how different these three are today, and what that could have looked like in this alternative history. For example, the mountainous regions (highlands) of PNG (Milanesian) bear more similarity to how they lived 300 years ago vs how westerners live today. It's a similar geography to western Mu, and I couldn't foresee these folks being subjugated by colonialism (the highlands of PNG are... wild, by any measure).

[@rikospostmodernlife]

Melanesian. milanesian wouldbe someone from the land of milanesas 🍛

[@oKayVa]

Melanesian, not milanesian , but thanks for including us, we are often overlooked by many

[@LOBALOBZ]

@@oKayVayea, I’m Polynesian btw I’m samoan niuen and Tongan

[@setentaisiette7736]

I was waiting for some mention of how the geography of the Marianas Trench would affect the peninsula civilization. Like are the Chamorros separated by a massive mountain chain (if the ocean floor was inverted) or if they had a Marianas River Valley civilization but I guess he didn’t know that the “Ladrones” islands on the Mu map are actually the Marianas.

[@setentaisiette7736]

And how the most populated region (the peninsula) is mostly Micronesia in our universe

[@maseoembry4165]

Mu might also mean that Trans Atlantic Slave trade as we know it wouldn't exist. Due to a surviving native population immune to their diseases, Europeans wouldn't need to import African slaves to tend to their cash crops, resulting in a different ethnic makeup for the new world and a different Africa as well

[@josephmiele2277]

Things might have played out similar to our timeline on the east coast, but a surviving native population on the west coast would mean that westward expansion would be a far longer and bloodier (to both sides) full on war of conquest instead of a bunch of sporadic battles aided by disease and railroad-sponsored outpopulation.

[@AlxndrHQ]

I think the Trans Atlantic Slave trade would have still happened anyway. (Even if only amongst the Portuguese between modern day Nigeria, Angola, and Brazil) The natives would have died out regardless, not from disease, but from poor working conditions on the plantations (eg. sugar or silver) as per the very short life expectancy on a Brazilian sugar plantation in our own real timeline.

[@board-qu9iu]

Africa is closer anyway and this again assumes that Europeans can defeat the natives

[@maseoembry4165]

@@AlxndrHQ That's true, though I wonder how plausible the plantations would be if the native population was more resistant to diseases and how much that would effect native resistance. The Pequod wiped out a lot of settler populations

[@AlxndrHQ]

@@maseoembry4165 unfortunately, I think no matter how we look at it, the Americas (and Africa) would be colonized; even if it’s delayed by a couple hundred years relative to our timeline. Main reason being: the Silk Road, and Guns. Unless the empires in the Americas can establish trade with Chinese gunpowder merchants by sea before Europeans do so via the Silk Road; they would be no match for machine guns, and thus would be colonized. (Assuming Europeans still found a way to industrialize without the colonies) However I think this arms race would have sent enslavement into overdrive. There likely would be people/war captives purchased/enslaved from South/Southeast Asian, Mu, and African slavers. There would also likely be a triangular slave trade on both sides of the Americas.

[@DIREWOLFx75]

Hmm, i think i was a bit more creative when i wrote up a large pseudocontintent for the S. Pacific as part of doing some Jumpchain writing. I made it mostly the very very longterm result of a large comet impact on the Pacific tectonic plate, so much further south(centered closer to around New Zeeland's latitude), yet still somewhere around 10-14 million sqkm(1.5 to 2 times as large landmass as Australia). Set up as a gigantic crater(except it's not the actual crater, because that would have been far too destructive, but instead the result of the comet impact causing longterm "magma venting" along exaggerated patterns caused by the impact), with essentially 3 islands in a ring surrounding a central ocean roughly the size of the Mediterranean, with a large island in the center(1-1.5M sqkm). Using the glacial low-water periods i theorized that it was reasonably plausible for people to colonise it much earlier, as due to the low ocean level, all you need are a few islands in the right place and it becomes relatively easy to go there. So, very early pre-humans arriving VERY far back in time and then Neanderthal, Denisovan and the other contemporaries, probably around 60k BC. And so on, while there's still an actual landbridge that later collapses due to the tectonic movements and rising water levels. THEN however, i pretty much exploited every little legend i could dig up from realworld history to justify all sorts of weird migration there. Aborigines, Pre-Ainu+Jomon/Okhotsk, then of course Polynesians, but predicting them thousands of years earlier than you in the video. Followed in various ways by Indians, Phoenicians, Veneti, Egyptian, Yamatai, Chiripa, aaand then Vikings for the heck of it(justified via contact with the Veneti, which also provides some more knowledge about shipbuilding(Veneti are the Gauls that Ceasar complained about had ships so large they were impossible to fight, because the Romans couldn't board them, they were too big!(it's hinted that the Veneti loaded up their ships and migrated as a result of the Roman conquest, so i just had this as one of the main points of migration to "Pacifica"))), with some Vietnamese and later Chinese due to their wars, some Tiwanaku... And you get a fun playground to mess around with. Especially as i created a rough map of it for the Civilization 3 game and did some playtesting to see how it stacked up compared to other maps.

[@stephenridolfi6464]

I think an interesting possibility is the introduction of gunpowder and metalworking to Mu through their trade with Asia, which also would affect Australia and possibly even South America. I imagine that the interior of Mu would be a lot like the interior of Africa or South America where exotic species and isolated tribes could be found.

[@nakenmil]

Alternate ideas: Chinese-writing, Buddhist Western Mu would have powerful enough civilizations for the Spanish language to never really take hold, and colonial holdings be fairly modest until later colonialism and the widespread use of the steam engine, resulting in a colonial experience somewhere inbetween that of Africa and East Asia, not the complete erasure that much of the Americas experienced. You could have "Muan Thailands" existing, countries that were never properly colonized, but instead became protectorates, or allied with one colonizer against others, getting preferential treatment. Hell, imagine a Muan Japanese-style modernization!

[@jakeaurod]

That might depend on how the mountains and valleys lined up on the Muan coast (and perhaps the interior). If I recall correctly from my poli-sci studies, a lot of cultural divides in South East Asia align with river valleys and can be dramatically different from those on the other side of the dividing ridge. Heck, cultures and ethnicities can be dramatically different between those who live on the valley slopes, those who live in the valley floor, and those who live on homes with stilts on the riverbank and floodplain.

[@nakenmil]

@@jakeaurod Oh, absolutely. Papua is the most linguistically diverse region in the world, for example. These are all just ideas that I think would be neat.

[@AZOMBIERYO]

In an alternate timeline "What if the continent of Australia actually existed"

[@Jaggerbush]

This had so much potential

[@Soruk42]

Funny how I stumbled upon this video round about the same sort of time that I've started watching the early 1980s series "The Mysterious Cities of Gold" with my kid - which also references this "lost" continent!

[@TheMayanGuy]

Fun fact: the entire story of The Mysterious Cities of Gold is based on James Churchward books on Mu. And honestly the fantasy world of this series is interesting and well made, when they explained the fall of Mu and Atlantis that was so cool ngl

[@pizzalord1733]

nice fact but can I just say listening to him talk about this all I think about is the anime Gunjou no magme.

[@altejoh]

Slight correction: continental drift never really got accepted as a popular theory. It wasn't until plate tectonics was theorized in the 1960s that it actually became accepted as science fact, helped largely by the discovery of seafloor spreading.

[@caliboy09]

Bros thought process was like “What if Jamaica, but big and in the Pacific?”

[@The-Black-Death]

Well tbh in the Conan The Barbarian series by Robert E Howard, it also features Mu technically but not outright stated outside of one of his Solomon Kane stories, but it is heavily hinted at and is used as a reference for some of the strange out of place cultures during the Hyborian Age. With the mesoamerican-inspired people from Xuchotl who came from Old Kosala, which itself used to be a part of a proto-India region or country by the name of Vendyha in the series, hinting at them being Naacal refugees from Mu since Ancient India is where the Naacal tablets were said to be discovered at exactly.

[@exempligratia101]

The “Lost Continent” story motif has been around, and usually is romanticized with colonial ideas. Yet, these fictitious continents (or locations) pose fascinating settings for alternative stories and ways that create history. I’ve followed your channel for many years, and this content is just as intriguing as the next. Mu might be a cool concept to create many stories!

[@MrPaytonw34]

Like the real Zealandia thats an actual continent right where the guy says it is? You guys don’t want to admit you’re wrong so bad you just act like things don’t even exist.

[@CommunistNY]

​@MrPaytonw34 what the fuck are you saying? Zealandia wasn't even in the exact spot that the creator of Mu said it was. It was next to Australia, also it was not even an island or continent, it depends on your opinion of what defines an island or continent is. Zealandia was smaller than Australia but bigger than Greenland, so it might be the biggest island or the smallest continent or the 2nd biggest island. And again, what. the. fuck. WERE YOU SAYING! That's why Zealandia is named after NEW ZEALAND. It was named after the mountains that survived the flood that the continent/island fell to and was on, New Caledonia also survived

[@ummfaizal]

@@MrPaytonw34 the real submerged continent is Sundaland in Indonesia and Malaysia, scientific research and evidence suggests that came from this continent, submerged in 10,000 years ago

[@Voyager1excavation]

​@@MrPaytonw34 are you referring to the original commenter or what , cause no one is pretending Zealandia doesn't exist , its been proven by scientists for years

[@mrtom2854]

I can't believe there isn't already a half-baked effort at creating a story out of this from someone like Harry Turtledove

[@HusZat]

Some insight regarding the German settlements on Mu: It all started with a small land purchased by a merchant from Oldenburg, Georg Friedrich Schinderhannes, in the south-eastern part of the continent in 1888. The now well-known city build on that spot of land was later named after the merchant, Schinderhannesstätt. It became Germany's single most important economic center in the pacific and the de facto capital of the beautifully named colony "Deutsch-Südost-Muh". .... A special German dialect also developed within said colony, Schinderhannesstättlerdeutsch, as well as a special pidgin called Mühemannisch (a unique mix of German, Lower German, Frisian, French and dozens of indiginous languages). Unfortunately, both are now considered nearly extinct due to the fact that Deutsch-Südost-Muh was later annexed by the Entente after WWI. ... At least one thing remains: After gaining independence, the inhabitants of the former colony, the Atanakamariwa, Kukumacha and Hatatawarika, decided to adopt the animal once intended to be depicted on the Colonial Coat of Arms of Deutsch-Südost-Muh as their own national animal: the Cow. 🐄💚💛💜

[@timdc4972]

nice

[@realbaron5714]

German Mu cease to exist after ww1 and lands are divide between France and UK.

[@gabrielbosley9008]

This is my most favorite alternate history video.

[@jrbiff18]

I wonder how it would affect time zones and maps. The pacific ocean is kind of extraordinarily convenient when it comes to those.

[@dragon_ninja_2186]

Another possibility could’ve been the Manihiki Plateau (Manihiki Atoll) being above sea level. Although this wouldn’t be continent sized or smack dab in the middle of the ocean (more towards Australia and New Zealand). But Mu is still fascinating and fun to think about too.

[@historia9914]

I’ve always thought about this possibility or even in the middle of Atlantic. Great topic!

[@lawjef]

Is this a other video about lemurs?

[@milkyway5573]

@u know me who asked?

[@that1worldcitizen152]

@@lawjef I have no idea

[@Hertacles]

It would be far better in the Atlantic because Hurricanes wouldn't be an issue.

[@Stivonim]

the idea of a continent in the middle of the Atlantic is basically Atlantis

[@carealoo744]

0:27 I remember the book of that fish is from; I haven't thought of that book in years and years!

[@evanmcdonald9134]

I love how self aware this channel is when making all of this high effort stuff. The acknowledgement that the city states looked like Europe made me laugh my ass off. All to say, such great and well researched work and keep it up!

[@wickiezulu]

Even though it is located in the South India Ocean, it would appear having something like the Kerguelen Plateau above water would likely be more grounded and possibly less disruptive (to the currents, etc) as despite being a microcontinent about 3 times the size of Japan recall it being estimated in one or more AH TLs potentially being capable of supporting a population roughly the size of New Zealand.

[@M_Dun]

Which alternate histories???

[@theonebman7581]

I wanna see thiissssssss

[@koharumi1]

Huh is it that big?

[@H3llr4z0r]

I feel like you're giving Mu too little credit to stand own its own. With a large continent that can easily allow trade from the east and New World, I feel like it might prosper and advance technologically exponentially faster than the Polynesians/Incas of our time. It could easily be a global superpower and a major trading hub with access to vast resources and imports to the point that it derails our euro-centric idea of colonialism. Though I would expect it to be more trade-oriented like Carthage was, it would still be entirely possible for it to be more militaristic. Also I'm imagining it will be a heaven for pirates as the trade routes would be easy pickings. I very much also like the idea of Japan trying to invade a part of it at the western peninsular too eventually which would vastly influence the culture of the continent even more.

[@evancombs5159]

The problem Mu would have is the lack of population. Being only colonized by the Polynesians as late as 1500 BC the population would be very small relative to other population centers.

[@puppykitten4779]

No, it would have no black death, it would be fine population wise. With enough food and stable climate, human do be breeding like cockroaches

[@evancombs5159]

@@puppykitten4779 of there is trade with China, which is believed to be the source of the Black Death, why wouldn't it also affect Mu?

[@Rhaenarys]

@@evancombs5159 the problem with that is its unlikely to take that long given the distance is actually pretty short. Chances are people on mainland Asia would be able to at least glimpse this mysterious world during certain atmosphere conditions, which would spark curiosity, and have them traveling much sooner. We are too curious of creatures.

[@antokarman2064]

It would give rise to colonization by the east asian people if there are no strong native kingdoms or empires

[@jacekwojciechowski3679]

From looking at the map I think there will be small countries on the coast of Mu where its shores are closest to Guatemala and Mexico. They most probably would be about the similar size of the Netherlands or Belgium in Europe and by origin started by Amerindian merchants or conquistadors. Can even imagine controlling a piece of Mu's east by some American power like in our world Spain controlled Netherlands.

[@epicbirdy42069]

You need to make a part 2! Also I could see a scenario where the US and USSR fight over Mu. It is in the middle of both countries(well not really), we could see wars, nuclear silos all of the continent.

[@melissarose7488]

Honestly, maybe I’m just an optimist, but I feel like Mu being so close to China (the inventor of gunpowder) would give the natives of Mu a leg up on the colonizers. Due to trade, they and the natives in the americas may have developed weaponry that natives in the americas never had the opportunity to develop without trade routes. I think just like with the disease immunity idea, access to other civilizations and more extensive trade routes in general (which might have helped develop alliances too) would’ve been extremely helpful in deterring potential colonizers.

[@BigBeakEntertainment]

I think an interesting thought experiment would be to create an Alternate History Hub video from the perspective of an alternate world where a real continent like South America didn't exist, and imagine a world where it did exist without the context of actual history to see how close you could get to reality without making assumptions. That would put new light onto the "missing continent" alternate history takes.

[@Bribridude130]

You should check out "DBWI (Double-blind what if)", which is when someone creates an alternate timeline from the perspective of someone living in that alternate world. For example "What if Reagan was never assassinated?" made by someone living in a world where Ronald Reagan assassination attempt succeeded..

[@turbostrike1632]

5:00 Hey that's RahXephon! It's an anime heavily inspired by, if not an outright remake, of a 70s mecha anime called Raideen which also features elements about Mu. In the 70s Japan became obsessed with the ideas of ancient advanced civilizations and aliens to where a lot of mecha and tokusatsu media featured these elements, to where one anime even had ancient Mycenae as it's villains.

[@Fadeless_00]

I’m kinda late on this video but isn’t it possible that one of the megafauna could have been used as a sort of alternative to horses for the steppe people? Maybe one of the many giant flightless bird megafauna that existed in Australia could have survived and been domesticated for use as a mount? Maybe not as fast but it seems reasonable that it would have been the case.

[@maxkronader5225]

The idea of such continent sized islands having once existed, but which sank beneath the sea did not seem as crazy to the average person 150 years ago as the notion that the continents floated around on lava crashing into each other. It's only because we grew up in a time that plate tectonics was an accepted theory with a ton of evidence backing it up that we think it's a reasonable idea and Mu was ridiculous. BTW, I'm just talking the geography of Mu here, not the metaphysical psychic woo-woo BS.

[@peteynutt4104]

look up zealandia

[@maxkronader5225]

@@peteynutt4104 Zealandia has been almost entirely underwater for the past 79million years+. Even at the ocean level minimum during the ice ages, only 10-11% of Zealandia was above sea level. That's down to about 7% today.

[@malechiturner.357]

Cody is held back by the ridiculous dogma historians still cling to. -Sea levels were 400ft lower as recently as 13,000 BC -Even as glacial maximums receeded, ocean levels didn't near modern levels until around 6,000 BC -Google underwater roads off Japan and Florida to see how pathetic historians denying the existence of lost seafaring cultures is. -Göbekli Tepe in Turkey has already forced dogmatic historians to (very reluctantantly) double civilizations age. -Carbon dating put a 30k yr old age on a South American dig almost 2 decades ago but cost the anthropologist any further grants for the rest of her life. Cro-mag-style spearheads are found all over North America. - The is weathered by deluge of rainwater consistent with a rainforest that hasn't existed in Egypt for over 12,000 years. There are stone megaliths and pyramids around the globes equator. Considering the glaciers that started receding 15,000 years ago would have scraped away pyramids further north... That tell you anything? -Anthropologists have been proving historians to be nothing but dogmatic obtuse asshats for decades now.

[@achaeanmapping4408]

If it's fine to add so much land in the earth I'd assume it would also be fine to remove some water as well. Also without the natives dying from plagues, it would be interesting to see how different American societies would be, since they would probably keep much more native characteristics. And another thing with a bridge between the old and new world, possibly animals and technologies would exchange, leading for one, possibly the creation of nomadic empires in the Americas and putting them in a much more even playing field with the Europeans

[@OCinneide]

The Americas lost around 90% of their population due to disease when colonial nations landed. Imagine Caesar in Gaul compared to one hundred Spanish conquistadors taking the entire Incan Empire.

[@MilloSpiegel]

Are you saying that when when the Europeans arrives in the American plains they could meet a society that greatly resembles a kind or "American Mongols"? Due to them possibly getting horses early.

[@achaeanmapping4408]

@@MilloSpiegel *Mongolian throat singing intensifies*

[@OCinneide]

@@MilloSpiegel According to numerous American Generals of the time, many of the Native Americans who lived in the American plains were the most adept Light Horsemen they had ever seen. Whether they were actually good compared to the Mongols is another debate, but in our time line even with a limited time with horses, they became extremely adept.

[@achaeanmapping4408]

@@OCinneide Tribes like the Sioux would probably become the terror of Mezoamerica

[@TophYaKno]

Watching this and realizing this whole theory had to have been a huge inspiration for story elements in One Piece

[@anguskeenan4932]

Just goes to show you, crazy has been around a lot longer than twitter, it’s just easier to find now

[@PakBallandSami]

Le Plongeon died in 1908, but the baton was soon picked up James Churchward, a British writer, inventor and engineer, who ran with it, publishing several books including Lost Continent of Mu, the Motherland of Man (1926), The Lost Continent of Mu (1931), The Children of Mu (1931) and The Sacred Symbols of Mu (1933). Unlike Le Plongeon, however, Churchward focused his research in India where, he claimed, he had found ancient clay tablets kept by a high-ranking priest, containing writings in a lost language that only he and two other people could read.

[@zanzaben]

Seeing yet another alternate history get conquered by colonization really makes me wonder what it would take for there to be an alternate history where colonization failed. Not necessarily all of colonization but for at least one civilization to exist that when Europeans try to colonize it they just can't. For it to have the resources and war experience needed to be able to defeat the Europeans. I thought Mu might be the one to defeat colonization since it's trade access to China would give it both access to gunpowder and experience with plague. As well as Mu's massive size allowing it to both have plenty of natural resources, and multiple nations that could conflict with each other thus raising their overall proficiency at war.

[@board-qu9iu]

IMO I think the reason is because he ignored the fact that Mu would get access to Chinese weapons and a harder colonization of the americas makes Mu even harder to be taken over

[@bustavonnutz]

US military losing to Tecumseh or the Spanish losing to Moctezuma comes up often for me. 100% possible but never came to pass. Closest we have is Sentinel Island.

[@board-qu9iu]

@@bustavonnutz here is significantly more likely that they would be able to resist

[@daroaminggnome]

@@board-qu9iu Yeah its weird that he got bent up on the sealevel thing but handwaved away the fact it wouldn't be just diseases being traded. Centuries before a European set foot in the Americas they would have been exposed to: -Proper livestock, which is sort of the bedrock for any advanced society. Livestock is absolutely critical for moving up the production-efficiency ladder, which frees up more people from having to work in food-related roles and instead work in more complex professions. -Horses. Huge understated reason for the early spectacular successes of Europeans. It wasn't guns that let Cortez overcome 100-to-1 odds it was all the dudes in steel armor on horseback that might as well been invulnerable to the native armies. Also incredibly important for travel and transportation over land. -Ironworking, similar to above. Naturally ironworking is also vital to industrialization down the road. -Gunpowder, I think this is actually the least important one. The Chinese basically did nothing with gunpowder after discovering it and most cultures that interacted with it did not majorly improve it, until it got to the Middle-East and then Europe. Its possible the Mu or (Native) Americans could have broken this mold but I doubt it. -Philosophy: the wildcard, its really impossible to predict what the exchange of *ideas* would do. Just think about religions: What would China be like if Buddhism was not exported there? Whats Africa like if Islam did not proselytize past the Sahara through trade? What does a modern Zoroastrian Persia look like? etc etc. Thats just religions. Hell, its entirely possible that northwest Mu gets sucked into China's orbit of Confucian/Buddhist imitation states. Could keep going on and on but just with the above you could easily make a more interesting scenario compared to "CORTEZ DOES IT AGAIN, HOW DOES HE KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS?"

[@board-qu9iu]

@@daroaminggnome yeah. I do think a few colonies would exist but they would be Small and in North America

[@CallemJay_McNeill]

As an Eastern Polynesian (New Zealand Māori and British) I do find these ideas fascinating. I've posed questions to an A.I app, asking how Māori culture would have developed if Zealandia had remained above the sea. It actually came to quite a few of the conclusions you came to.

[@MrPaytonw34]

🤫🤫🤫they pretend that Zelandia doesn’t exist their very hush-hush on it. Even going to the extreme where they make fun of it like in this video even though it’s real. If they admit it then they look like idiots and sense archeologists and archaeologists dick riders like this guy don’t wanna look like idiots, they just act like it doesn’t exist.

[@matthursh3414]

The first think I thought when I saw that Mu hadn't changed the water levels, I just thought of an Earth with much less water on it to begin with. Great video as always!

[@kingdomofthem1822]

I play a lot of civilization 6 and there are continents and areas with names that I have never heard of before. Quite frankly watching your videos over the last couple years has allowed me to understand where the names of these continents come from. Some from history, some from old civilizations and others from books. I always found it a bit of a coincidence and that I enjoyed.

[@TheKnightOfShades]

Even if it makes even less sense in regards to plate tectonics, I'd love to see a scenario with both Mu and Atlantis. Then you could have a westwards extention of the silk road running from Europe to Atlantis to the Americas, and from there to Eastern Mu where it links up with the eastern end of the road. One massive trade route encircling the globe.

[@ItsButterBean1020]

I kind of wonder what It’d look like I’d you had all the geography videos together as one map Like Green Sahara Green Antarctica Zealandia Mu America and Parias Atlantis Shit would be Crazy and it’d be interesting to see how that stacks

[@wren_.]

what if we mine asteroids to use as new land for a mu-like continent?

[@rokamayonoh3rt362]

@@ItsButterBean1020 that should be a book, the world building would be really interesting

[@ItsButterBean1020]

@@rokamayonoh3rt362 it’d be fun potential for a fantasy series Perhaps “Atlantis” is a larger landmass but possesses a California esque island adjacent to it and Mu could be another random land

[@dddf27]

@@wren_. we must dump ocean water somewhere else so the sea level won't rise

[@davidstrife165]

To try and work with plate tectonics, a simple answere would be a second super volcano beneath the wave. So instead of a Cascadia quake, its a Mt. Mu eruption.

[@chriswandell3570]

I thought they had found a 'lost' continent that sunk that new zealand is a mountain range on. It was on a geography channel i watched like 3 years ago, I'm gonna have to track that video down again... It was interesting and apparently the sinking process had something to do with the type of new lava being created having a different buoyancy on the mantle if i recall. Going from basaltic rock to a more mud-like rock, the same reason that the marinara's trench is so deep,

[@chriswandell3570]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJ6phnmkgs9ogNk

[@therealspeedwagon1451]

There is a mod for hoi4 that actually adds Mu into the game. I like that Mu better because it’s smaller than this mu but probably still big enough to be considered a continent. I’d also be curious to see what would happen if Hyrule was real and Termina was in the North Pacific.

[@user-zo7ov9zr5o]

What's the name

[@a.cunningham4974]

CANABALISTIC NAZI ELVES

[@DEVS_VLTIMA]

SPEEDWAAAAAGOOON

[@therealspeedwagon1451]

@@user-zo7ov9zr5o Atlantis Mu Lumeria

[@whiplashthebirdman5535]

I liked that he mentioned AML, its also a really fun mod for hoi4 that really does spice up the pacific gameplay. Cant wait for him to explain the continent of Lemuria next.

[@whiplashthebirdman5535]

@E. yeah I saw like 20 minutes after this

[@kanebekkattla3963]

he's also done Doggerland

[@JunoInSpace]

Recent Scientists actually think there is another continent in the South Pacific Ocean, called Zealandia. It would be the new smallest continent, and it would fully surround New Zealand and New Caledonia. Sadly, it is submerged hundreds of meters below the surface.

[@SMiki55]

Hi, can you provide the source for the art of Nascals you used? It's s pretty dope art of elves

[@vequiera]

I was kinda hoping to hear how we’d arrive to modern day with Mu if sea levels weren’t effected but it still had an impact on world history before colonization. Either way, this was quite the fantastic video! Very interesting idea, and I love the attention to detail with how Mu would affect/ be affected by both East Asia and the Americas. Not even to mention the visuals, some of your best videography yet!

[@keenanlarsen1639]

Perhaps in such a scenario, the existence of Mu ends up leading to different civilizations rising to power. Maybe they aren't colonized at all but are in fact the colonizers.

[@HuskyEarth]

8:12 Many sources I've checked in the past do say that human settlement to oceania happened before the americas

[@swagger4715]

we need an continent update!

[@tjflyers]

Given the sweet potato becoming popular in Asia a couple centuries before Europeans got there.. I’d say the Polynesian trade with the Americas had some significant impact in our timeline!

[@TheRealSpiderMew]

What if instead of horses, Mu had a mega bird that the "nomads" domestacated into taking the horse role. Call it the Chocobo......

[@QrilliantEditz]

Until you put it onto a biome map, I realised how big it really was. Really interested, and I would’ve predicted alot of these events would actually have happened if. But imagine technology nowadays, and otehr stuff, from modern day countries and things, but I might go crazy if imagine it too much, more like a 1 man Star Wars story the size of today.

[@racionador]

i could imagine a big river crossing most of the insides of this continent and would be like the golden place it would be the main tool to creat a empire there