Stopping Leaks And How To Pitch a Show | Episode 14

How genuine are the reactions we see? How do you go about pitching a show? And how are the winners of The Traitors, Bake Off, MasterChef and others kept secret?
Richard and Marina pull back the curtain on entertainment and answer your questions.
Twitter: @restisents
Email: [e-mail]
Producer: Neil Fearn
Executive Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport
00:00 - Intro
00:20 - How do TV shows filmed in advance prevent spoilers?
03:40 - Why are Netflix films so long?
05:29 - Why do shows STILL have 'Coming Up' sections?
08:05 - The Steve Bartlett Dragon's Den Controversy
14:18 - Are reaction shots in reality shows actually real?
17:50 - Why do streamers copy each other and produce shows about the same subject?
22:10 - How do you pitch a game show to a TV channel?
25:24 - Will Radio survive for much longer?

[@lukesmith5018]

The best use of "next time on this show" is in Arrested Development where the events that happen in the 'next time' segment, don't actually happen in the next episode, allowing them to put some really bizarre/larger than life jokes into those segments

[@asoiseth]

Yes!!!😂

[@rechargeandrelax1618]

"Oh, Tobias! You blowhard!"

[@Walperion_Music]

14:44 - lol I just remembered I saw a Would I Lie To Yopu episode from 2020-ish where they edited in the EXACT SAME Jon Richardson reaction to two different jokes! Ooh, that day a part of me that still believed in magic died lol.

[@monishbiswas1966]

Charlie Bookers Screen Wipe covered this for the X factor - where the same response from Danni Minogue was played to several responses.

[@mikesanborn4541]

I've never been able to enjoy reality television and one of the major reasons is the constant recapping, it's like having a conversation with a goldfish who's suffered a traumatic brain injury. I'd always assumed they did this because it turns the 5 min of actual content they have into an hour, so they're able to jam in more add breaks.

[@orlandocat308]

See Mitchell and Webb's gift shop sketch - "I'm looking for a present for my aunt" - illustrates this insanity perfectly.

[@adamd8016]

It hits the nail on the head - great sketch kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX6ppZ9ojb2hi8U@@orlandocat308

[@deanmcloughlin2360]

Sounds like you watch too much american tv and need to watch more British tv lol...if I'm wrong, try watching some American tv, and you'll come crawling back to British tv 😂 Anerica bloody loves a recap. Watching undercover boss or hells kitchen etc shows lime that, the UK and US version are world's apart, purely due to all the recapping americans need it's ridiculous

[@Tiz147]

I know exactly what you mean

[@Tiz147]

I know exactly what you mean.

[@nathanadler6991]

With regards to manufactured reactions, I did an episode of Love is Blind where a contestant was rejected and during their exit interview was crying, however, the producers rolled footage from just before the interview officially started and showed the contestant asking permission to apply some kind of irritant to their eyes to make themselves cry. It was fabulous.

[@willyum3920]

so pissed off with this podcast because I really have too many already and I hate watching TV but all the behind the scenes conversations and insights into the business are fascinating. Urg subscribed

[@AJHaywood17]

@2:08 is the most hilarious statement when you just casually spoiled the ending of a show 30 seconds beforehand 😂

[@VVilktube]

Genuinely just spoilt it for me, was planning on watching it 😢

[@Merusdraconis]

There was a lovely parody of the reaction shot in Australia show Russel Coight's All Aussie Adventures, a parody of outback explorer shows like the Bush Tucker Man and The Crocodile Hunter. They used a cutaway shot of a really close-up handshake, that was clearly filmed with different people, to imply that the people Coight met while filming the show resented him so much they weren't even willing to shake hands with him on camera.

[@paulwswift5226]

Love it that you didn't edit out the reverb gremlin that came in for a few seconds.

[@Clearwater2408]

I was absolutely devastated for Mollie on The Traitors. Prob the most heartbreaking revelation of deception I've ever seen on tv.

[@adamclark6756]

It isn't that they keep telling you what is coming that annoys me, it is when they tell you what has just happened before the ad break that gets to me. I know what has happened, i just bloody watched it 4 minutes ago!

[@sevro]

Oh thank you! I get this annoyance all the time in watching shows like Salvage Hunters, Aussie Gold Hunters and Outback Opal Hunters - they show all the best bits in the episode at the start (thankfully I'm on Demand services so I can just skip 2minutes into the programme but sometimes I'm listening while cooking in the kitchen and it'll autoplay the next episode and then I hear "???? discovers a find of a lifetime!!") and I'm like GEE THANKS I know what to expect now.

[@WeekendShedHead]

Can’t believe this channel exists 🤩 .. fantastic, looking forward to watching more

[@mattyartell9575]

"There's no better way to piss off your readers than to spoil the show" How ironic that she said this 10 seconds after saving me the bother of watching The Traitors :)

[@mrsheffield37]

These episodes have all been *so* good.

[@Cchogan]

The "snake oil" segment is interesting. On TV and Radio, there are very strict rules about anything offering some medical benefit. Basically, whatever it is must be properly peer reviewed. When I used to make ads, I had a couple of companies I turned down because there was no chance the script would get cleared to go on air. Dragons Den is kind of like an advert for companies. If they get an offer, then even if it falls down off-camera, they will get a boost when it airs. So really, the same rules need to apply. On the BBC, it is even more complicated. Someone dropped the ball on this one.

[@MattFrancis1]

Best example of the reaction shot in an interview is of course Alan partridge in the swimming pool interview

[@readventurekids]

Bene fecisti. Bene fecisti.

[@JayROwen]

I have to disagree on the previews thing, especially on the idea that it's "filler" content to make the programs longer. Earlier in the podcast, you mentioned that creatives will make much longer programs if they had the opportunity to, so a Producer can easily make the content fit the time slot without the previews and without any extra filming required. It's also not cheaper. I've worked on shows in the past where we've had to specifically hire a person to edit the pre-titles tease(s) - often one to cover the whole series, plus one episode-specific one. For an 8-part series, that process alone could take two weeks to edit and you would need an editor, edit producer and the hire of a the edit suite. Total cost of that is apx £9,200 (back of envelope calculation) without even considering costs of Final Post and Mastering etc, so it would be much cheaper to not have the previews and to make the main body of the episode longer instead.

[@Studeb]

A lot of interesting answers to questions I didn't even know I wanted to hear.

[@Ulleskelf]

I wonder if the Kathy Clugston who asked about the future of radio is Kathy Clugston, the host of BBC Radio 4’s ‘Gardeners’ Question Time”?

[@highdownmartin]

I thought it was Cley Jones. Good day and good gardening

[@wmperry2790]

She was freguently the news reader/score keeper on pre-2020 radio 4 News Quiz

[@highdownmartin]

@@wmperry2790 noo one compares to Charlotte Green

[@wmperry2790]

@@highdownmartin "Dirty Cow!" in jeremy hardy's voice

[@TheBiggervern]

This is such and brilliant and interesting discussion show. Thank you.

[@keithjbrown]

What I find about podcasts are that most are passive entertainment to be consumed - these are a conversion that I feel frustrated I can't join in on (comments don't count)... which is probably good, but bad for me!

[@davenewbert7413]

Interesting question from Kathy Clugston on the potential demise of linear radio. While a lot of (particularly music) radio, is dying, Kathy will know that GQT, which she hosts, is a show many people;expletive would switch on their radio for (radio 4, geddit?) I’m sure episodic shows like this will continue to grow, and while I love shows such as Tim Hartford’s More or Less and The Infinity Monkey Cage with Brian Cox and Paul Ince, I’d much rather switch on the radio to listen, rather than binge-listen via BBC Sounds or something akin to it. I do love a visual podcast (obviously) but quality linear radio is a valuable media format. Long may she reign!

[@honestom23]

I know there was a conversation about this in one of the earlier episodes, but it's really disappointing to have Traitors spoilers right at the very beginning of the podcast without any warning. Maybe that's on me, but I haven't caught up yet with Season 2 and have skipped sections of the podcast to avoid spoilers. It was very much appreciated splitting up episodes to allow people like me to do that. If any current TV show spoilers can be discussed at any time, then I can skip the podcast completely but would love to keep listening to it in some way but that doesn't seem to be the case?

[@maxdorey6713]

Re: dragons den even Levi Roots, their biggest success story, was asked to apply to the show by a researcher. He hadn't thought of dragons den till they asked him. In fact his daughter told him not to do it.

[@philipbrowne63]

Great podcast! Something I've wondered: is there a system in place for finding formats, concepts or ideas from other territories/languages and importing them into the UK/Anglophone market? I'm thinking here of something like "The Voice", which is originally Dutch. Do UK producers go looking for this stuff or are they approached by the original makers?

[@JayROwen]

I can answer this. This isn't the only way it works, but there are conventions for industry professionals where they pitch shows to others. MIPCOM is one example which takes place in Cannes each October. It's not only for formats but also for selling existing content to foreign broadcasters, often before it's even been broadcast - they'll play them either a full episode or an extended preview to get others interested in the hope of a sale. Often the stars of the show will make an appearance too

[@thescowlingschnauzer]

Radio is already TikTok. Bite-size content (even if it's packaged into blocks) that you can switch away from and switch back to instantly.

[@Grace-pw5qi]

I've said for so long that I believe so many things are sport and it's generally how I can narrow down my hobbies.

[@stephenbarrette610]

The ‘coming up’ bit was huge in the 70’s and 80’s cop shows like Columbo. It was infuriating as it would give away key plot points. It’s frustrating some shows are still doing it.

[@philipellis7039]

There was a business I have some familiarity with on a recent Dragon’s Den and it’s such a crock of s***e but somehow they got a deal. How the business was presented on TV and the reality miles apart, be interesting to know what due diligence found (all I know is they are still in business). I suppose the problem with Dragon’s Den is that, to some extent,they do what shows like X Factor do - they put through no hopers that the researchers could have weeded out in two minutes because they make interesting television. But you don’t know that you are that no hoper, you get through and assume that you are as credible as anyone else.

[@christophermartin5354]

Why do trailers nowadays 'Trailers starts now' when you have already clicked on the trailer? I haven't forgotten!!

[@ppeter1982]

What drives me up the wall is when a show ends on a cliffhanger with the main characters in complete peril, and within three quarters of a second, they announce "next time on..." and show the same main characters running about like nothing happened. Do they not have any faith in our relationship with the show or don't they have any faith in their writing ability? Spooks was the worst culprit for this behaviour.

[@apierc1]

Too many Willy bits? (Ok I worked out it was woolly bits in a few seconds but it's still funny)

[@readventurekids]

I had to do a double-take on that part (non pun intended) too.

[@Sicho84]

Next time on The Gift Shop Sketch...

[@garyhilton656]

The irony you spoilt traitors for me 😂

[@thevirgologychannel6215]

The recapping and tease thing is something UK television adopted from North America. Also that contributor interview explaining everything you’re about to see. When I moved to work in TV Canada in the mid-2000’s many British producers were in for a rude awakening when networks here didn’t understand why we structured a tv show the way we did in the UK and insisted these teases and recaps were necessary. It’s mainly because of the frequency of ad breaks. Also they don’t use break bumpers. A commercial will just appear out of nowhere. The first will usually come after the title sequence. And yes, it is about walking the viewer through every second of what’s going on and teasing the reveal or the moment a shocking comment is made.

[@GuanoLad]

I've never heard anyone call broadcast TV or Radio 'linear'. I wonder where that comes from, and what the distinction is that's being made.

[@daviebananas1735]

Linear TV or radio is basically what they were until streaming and recording became so popular. It’s pre-programmed, scheduled programming that is broadcast to be watched or listened to at an exact time.

[@wmperry2790]

LInear is just like linear time - no rewinds or jumps forwards or backwards. It does seem a strangley round about descriptor

[@philiphornsby9381]

Whoops. No spoiler warnings :(

[@tomwintle3311]

Yeah, not started S2 yet. Managed to avoid it till now :(

[@Synnipoe]

So annoying!!

[@victoriabateman]

I’ve avoided all their spoiler podcast episodes as it hasn’t screened in Australia yet. No warning then so now it’s spoiled. 😢

[@Bellabambina123]

Yes I was on episode 10 of 12 😢

[@smileydaveuk]

Due to Social Media, you have to show the best bit first. It's infuriating, especially as a comedy writer (with a flare for the theatrical). Having the 'Pullback reveal' right at the start of a video/show is horrendous but there's so much competition that you have to show the audience, as quick as possuble that there's a reason to stay and not change the channel or swipe on. When working for a TV channel as a Presenter, I approached my producer with a big show idea that I had sourced all the elements. He turned around and said they didn't have the budget and that it has to be within the confines of the upstairs studio. He took the idea to a production company and they made the show.. without him. It was a bastardised version of my show, incorrectly cast which failed horrendously while hemorrhaging money. I was devastated for them...

[@TheDandonian]

The worst thing about that, is people never believe you. It's happened a bunch to me with various channels and across different mediums. One commissioner at ITV told me categorically theres no chance their channel would even entertain the genre of show that I'd pitched (several times over a 2 year period). A few months later, I heard whispers of people being cast for the same show, when I enquired about it, he flat out denied it and called me unprofessional, until I said "I know full well it's happening because I've seen the contract for one of the cast"... "I'll do some digging and get back to you". A month or so later the channel made an announcement that the show was being filmed and the commissioner told me "Honestly I had no idea, it was one of the other commissioners". He might even have been telling the truth but theres no protection in the industry and no way of knowing what actually happened.

[@Wooderz245]

Regarding spoiling, people by and large are not assholes.

[@armcie5080]

5:30 reminds me of the Mitchell and Webb Gift Shop Sketch kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX6ppZ9ojb2hi8U

[@asdfghjkl123722]

What is linear programming?

[@readventurekids]

It's "traditional TV", where the viewer has to watch based on a pre-existing schedule, like terrestrial television in the UK. i.e. non-streaming TV, like Netflix, etc.

[@ThePurpleCheesecakeZebra]

taskmaster always manages to have spoilers in the edit history of wiki which i always find a bit funny but also just annoying. i guess with that show though it doesnt really matter cus the point isnt who wins its about watching comedians looking silly doing silly things

[@simonohara9617]

The best "real life" show event for me was when Cilla Black exposed an undercover journalist live on TV on a Saturday night. Never happen in a million years now.

[@1002l]

strictly deserves to be spoiled(and its very easy to find the correct spoiler), just say its a recording for the sunday, rather than that stupid pretending

[@bodaciousbiker]

Call me a 'fanboy', but IMO Richard Osman is one of the most intelligent, witty and thoughtful broadcasters/authors on either side of the big pond. Though he no doubt has his plate full, my fantasy would be to see him hosting a podcast with guests tackling myriad issues such as politics, pop culture, literature, history, UAPs and even the nature of consciousness...the only other person I can think of capable of this is Stephen Fry, and I place the two shoulder to shoulder!

[@highdownmartin]

Before the break...... I JUST WATCHED IT!I KNOW!!! It's a half hour or less of content dragged out to an hour. Dreadful. With as much false jeopardy as they can wring out of it.

[@johnlochness]

I love Traitors but the edit that bugs me is when they split the contestants into teams and then pretend they're racing through the woods against each other, when it's clear to see that they're all going to the same places and therefore it must have been filmed one after the other. Very enjoyable podcast though.

[@heatherrobertson6110]

Interesting that you chose to focus so much on spoilers for Strictly, because the fact that you are expected to wait for the pre-recorded results of a show that was shown live is just too weird for me, and I always look up the spoiler (although I would never look up spoilers for the Traitors, or Bake-Off for example). I accept that showing the results live on a Saturday night might be logistically difficult, and (of course) I would never share what I have learned but I just can't manage the suspension of disbelief required to watch the results show when I know fine well that the losing contestant has - that very day - left an answerphone message for their agent to say that they are unexpectedly available!

[@mcstarshine]

Exactly! Also, for me, I don't count it as a proper spoiler as I'm not seeing who wins, just who goes and every other programme (Bake Off, Traitors etc) shows that at the end, not a day later...

[@simitheaudioman]

Some strange editing choices, and some sloppy audio post work 😣 doesn’t do the great conversation justice

[@archwombat9250]

Hells Kitchen US is the worst for the recaps and coming ups. It’s an hour show. 18 minutes of ad breaks and I swear 12 minutes of coming up and previously on footage, that’s 50% of the show is a waste of the viewers time.

[@danbuck11]

That point about "coming up on this episode" could you tell the rest is politics that exact thing because it's really annoying

[@andrew66862]

If I remember correctly, awards shows and quiz shows are sport, but wrestling is not sport.

[@djtwo2]

You are mixing up things. Sport is not just competition and Competition is not just sport. Award shows are competition, wresting is either both competition and sport or just pretence. Sport has to have some physical exertion..

[@andrew66862]

@@djtwo2 your m you'll have to take that up with Richard

[@skylarius3757]

@@djtwo2 Not just physical but mental too. Chess is a sport.

[@Hexon66]

I think there is a surefire solution to to the problem of spoilers for reality TV. Stop caring about it. Seriously, we've had a quarter century of this junk, and it's treated as genuine entertainment. Stop caring about it, people. House of Games? Love it. Big Brother, Let's Eat Pig's Anus in the Jungle? Get it out of here.

[@stewartbrodie1720]

Alongside the extremely irritating "Coming up on today's show ..." bits you can put the "Next time on ...." that gives away the outcome of the cliffhanger and/or the plot of next week's episode. When linear TV still seems to rely on people sticking on one channel for a whole evening, it's strange to chase away viewers like that. Death in Paradise does that, for instance. They even did that some nights late on on The Traitors, where if you're invested in the show, you were pretty much ready to march down to the BBC head office to demand to be shown the next episode straight away and showing preview spoilers just winds up the people who are actually watching your show.

[@kateatschool]

I have a question for the Q&As next week - Why isn't there more KZbin on Telly? There are all sorts of KZbin stuff I enjoy - from craft to investigative journalism. Why don't they get put on the telly? It seems like this never happens?

[@blastmedia3218]

Why would KZbin channels be on TV?

[@djtwo2]

You can put KZbin on Telly for yourself with modern TV sets connected to broadband.

[@skylarius3757]

KZbin is already on TV. All smart TV's have access to the Internet. Everything on the home screen of the TV is an app. It makes the TV from your aerial or Sky/ Virgin look like an app too.

[@LeeHughesPhotosthings]

Can't believe you spoiled The Traitors for me, I'm on ep8 and you've shown a photo of the winner with Claudia, not cool. I will forgive you as this is rapidly becoming my fav podcast, but please, don't do that again, I'm guessing it's the editor that's fucked me over on this and not the presenters though, but... you're left me vexed (I've been worse though to be fair).

[@Bellabambina123]

I've been enjoying this podcast, but it's a bit ironic how you discuss about "matters of great annoyance" in this episode even though right at the beginning you completely spoil about who won the traitors series 2! That is annoying for me! Come on it hasn't even been a week since the finale aired and not everyone has had a chance to catch up! Spoiler warning please!! 😢 😮

[@matt-ko4cc]

The gift ship sketch by Mitchell and Webb is a great example poking fun at shows which do annoying previews, flashbacks and spoilers kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX6ppZ9ojb2hi8U

[@rprobp186]

This marina woman always come across as very condescending

[@thejudethecat]

Lots of annoying things about Dragons Den - the pathetic puns by Evan Davis before each pitch - the fact that the last pitch of the show always gets a deal - Touker Suleyman just annoying (but love to see him getting rejected). Shark Tank USA is so much better. Although to be fair the latest series seems to be much better. Ear seeds thing was weird but Im sure there was some crystals BS thing that got an investment last series much to my disgust.

[@magnusalexander2965]

Clicked for "how to pitch a show", disappointed that the answer is "make a hit youtube series and hope someone important is watching" and nothing more. We can all assume that if you have an already popular thing, you can sell it more easily

[@MultiGamersuk]

See I used to watch pimp my ride and had to turn the channel over or or turn the volume down due to spoilers for next up. Also in the car I will listen to 2 channels personal Clyde one or Capital but when driving for work with passengers I will have a virility of music from GBX, capital, heart 80's & nation radio depending on my clientele. Ps work for an airport shuttle service in Glasgow.