Stopping The Barrel Collapsing

Hello and welcome to Badger Workshop. My cyclone works great but it can collapse so I added a support to it.
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[@Hand-i-Craft]

Thanks Matt. I bought one of those blue barrels last week after watching your other video. I had my cyclone connected to a family size bin! It works really well but is just always in the way. Now I should be able to store it all under one of my workbenches, will also strengthen it with your tip here. Excellent stuff 😀

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thank you. I wish mine would fit under my bench

[@mikerussell6469]

Really helpful, thanks for posting. Once the barrel collapses it’s hard to reshape. I struggled for while pushing and pulling and then connected the vacuum cleaner outlet to the cyclone, blocked the outlet and reinflated the barrel ok. It mostly came out the original shape but better to stop the collapse in the first place!

[@1kreature]

Makes it harder to empty the barrel though. You know you can have the ring on the outside as well? In order to collapse some parts of the wall usually has to buckle out as other parts buckle in. Outer ring would prevent that and help keep barrel round.

[@JFaithfull]

Cheers. This has worked a treat with my (slightly larger) barrel. Really struggled to get the ply ring in the barrel, but once in, it's as solid as a rock. Really pleased I don't need to sort another, more expensive solution! 👍

[@alanmuddypaws3865]

Thanks for sharing your trials and tribulations with the dust cyclone. This means that if ever I get around to making a dust cyclone you will have done all the hard work for me!

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thats it, lean from all my mistakes

[@garethsharp4039]

You should rename this video "Masterclass in bandsaw circle making jig". Great video Matt!

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thank you Gareth

[@dimitrimBE]

Had same problem today. Used your tip to solve it. Didn't bother making the Jig, but the ring works amazingly. Also the hot water tip to shape back the barrel did the trick. Thank you!!

[@darrenpaulgreen]

Nice tape measure - sure Mr Mac will be grateful for the product placement!

[@Badgerworkshop]

It is a very good tape

[@SMee67]

Well that's a neat quick and easy circle cutting jig for the bandsaw. 👌 Nicely done mate. 👍

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thanks Bill

[@MickMolyneux]

Just wanted to say thanks. I already had the circle cutting jig so after seeing your video it was only a 10 minute fix for my collapsing barrel. Thanks again for the great idea.

[@Badgerworkshop]

Glad it worked

[@benny5190]

I done exactly the same but put the ring on the outside works a charm

[@roberttill3787]

How is the ring going to stop the barrel collapsing when its fitted to the outside?

[@benny5190]

@@roberttill3787 to collapse one side needs to expand if it cant expand it cant collapse the ring needs to be solid, a strap wouldn't work tho

[@hankhill6416]

@@benny5190 interesting. my barrel has a screw top that's too tight to fit a ring in, I wonder if this would would or not? I'll give it a go and let peeps know. thanks!

[@silasgroenning]

Bending some fiber wood, with a rope, to hold the shape, and then inserting it into the barel, so it will create outwards pressure also is a workable solutions.. i am actually gonna put some aluminum sheat on top of the fiber wood aswell for maximum support.

[@davidstevenson6817]

I’ve had the same problem - I’ve just purchased a pressure release valve which has been recommended on several videos - wish the videos explaining how to set up a shop vac/ cyclone had mentioned the problem … if the valve doesn’t work I’ll try your method (liked the quick and easy jig).

[@briansworkshop01]

2 jobs 1 video that's good thanks for sharing 🍺🍺🍺👍👍👍👊

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thanks Brian

[@johnford7847]

You should have included a brief epilogue - did it work?

[@steved8038]

Absolutely pure genius

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thank you

[@tomtom786]

Excellent idea Matt, great job!

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thank you

[@matthewwhitley]

Just did a similar thing. I cut two rings from 3mm ply and cut them both in half. Then glued them together with the cuts at 90 degrees to each other to hold it nicely (like the offset you do when brick laying)

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thats a good idea

[@JohnColgan.]

Good work. I have similar problem, a tall square 15ltr barrel with 6" screw down lid, that sucks inwards with vacuum.The cyclone is aluminium casting mounted inside under the lid. I cut Some scrap veneered chipboard & interlocked assembled as a cross inside the barrel. I drilled & screwed into the chipboard edges from outside to stop it parting & dropping off. Biggest problem with the plastic barrel is build up of static & thick lining of sawdust/wood chips on all internal faces. Very dusty emptying & brushing static sawdust.

[@Paul-XCIV2]

You need to make a pressure valve for the barrel. I can't remember the design but I've seen it done on a few other cyclone builds.

[@Badgerworkshop]

But this now works fine

[@CampfireCrucifix]

Shhhh! Don't make him feel like he wasted his time.

[@pollelibre2649]

I had the same problem. I cut 3 plywood squares - cut a different size circle in 2 of the squares - mounted the 2 squares on the outside of the bucket (middle / top) - the bucket sits on the 3rd square - wood spacers between the squares - I screwed into the plywood from the inside of the bucket using large washers - it doesn't collapse anymore and the wood adds weight to the bucket so it doesn't tip over - as there's no wood on the inside it's still easy to empty…(I have a dust deputy - it's more expensive but I wanted a transparent cyclone so I could see that it's working) don't know if my description makes sense to anyone - like your videos by the way…

[@Badgerworkshop]

Sounds like a good solution

[@johnfithian-franks8276]

Hi, I bought that ballow after seeing your video, It looks as if I am going to have to get my circle cutting jig out. Well, it could have been worse, it wasn't that hard to do and now my ballow will work without being sucked in.

[@Badgerworkshop]

Its worth doing I think

[@tooladdict7463]

Good solution matt

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thanks Ben

[@OldManTony]

Great job. I was lucky my waste bucket was wider at the top and tapered slightly towards the bottom. My second version I cut the middle out with a jig saw so I didn’t have to cut through the ring, although it works just as well either way.

[@Badgerworkshop]

Sounds like that would make it much easier to install

[@JerGoes]

I really liked that circle cutting jig! (subbed)

[@jigsey.]

Bloody great idea matt

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thank you very much

[@Everythings_Adjustable]

Good tutorial on the circle jig 👍 👍

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thank you. Should come in handy

[@Everythings_Adjustable]

Now I have see you make one I will try one myself, Thanks 👍

[@raysmith1992]

Ingenious solution

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thanks Ray

[@AMC-eq3jr]

Just wonder why you just didn't drill a small hole on the lid? Thanks for sharing.

[@thewoodworker1703]

Great job matt !

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thanks Billy

[@LonghornWorkshop]

Great solution.

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thank you

[@David-xu3yk]

You've been doing some cool jigs lately! Really liked the cork jig on your last video too.

[@Badgerworkshop]

Thanks David. I do like a jig

[@hansdegroot8549]

Great solution for stopping the barrel collapsing. Thanks for sharing. The start of the video was more or less making the jig for making circles on the band saw. A similar jig you made some months ago which you also showed in a video. I made that one. It works perfect. But what is the difference between the first (older) jig and this newer one? At first glance they looked the same to me.

[@Badgerworkshop]

The other one used the mitre slot

[@hansdegroot8549]

@@Badgerworkshop Thanks for your reply. Yes, now I remember :-) When I made mine that time I had to do some adaptations to your jig because I do not have a miter slot on my band saw table. Both your jigs are super simple to make and they work perfectly. Nearly the ideal world.

[@TheSlothe]

i need to do this

[@roberttill3787]

I would fabricate a blast gate with a pressure relief valve in it, between the barrel and the motor, so that if the suction was greatly increased as with a blockage, the safety valve would open, letting air into the pipe before the barrel collapses. All you need is some pipe, say 75mm pipe, a spring, and a thin piece of ply, say 6 mm. Cut a circle that goes up the pipe, screw some screws through the pipe to give the ply a stop point. Down stream cut some pressure relief ports in the pipe. Cut a stopper from the 6mm ply and push that up to the stops. Find a spring that can sit behind the ply, and secure this in the pipe behind the ply stopper. Then adjust the tension in the spring to match the pressure you desire the stopper to let air in. This is the hard bit as it will be trial and error. Once you get the ideal place secure the sping in place, and fit it in your extraction system between the barrel and the motor. The relief pressure can be adjusted by resetting the spring tension.

[@Badgerworkshop]

or I could put a ring in the barrel

[@roberttill3787]

@@Badgerworkshop hahahaha!

[@theweepinghunter]

nice out of the box thinking

[@Badgerworkshop]

Or out of the barrel

[@olivepressdesign]

Instead of using a barrel or bucket to capture the wood chips from the separator can I just make a wooden box with a lid and and the separator attached to the lid? This way it doesn’t implode and I can make any size container I wish? Look fwd to your thoughts. Thanks for the video.

[@clarencegreen3071]

Three years later: Yes, you can. The shape of the chip box is not important to the operation of the cyclone.

[@rogerprice4075]

Same prob I had and this looks like the solution rather than simply storing a sizeable blue bucket which doesn’t work!

[@Badgerworkshop]

It is working great so far

[@rogerprice4075]

Badger Workshop Looking at your last top down shot, I see the splint is open where you have started the band saw cut, with a potential week spot for the future. The first (outer) cut matches the external diameter you measured. If you reduce this about 2mm' it would be closer to the internal diameter and then you could glue/screw the split splint to brace it better. Alternatively 3 or 4 screws through the bucket into the splint would stop it caving in. Am I being too pessimistic?

[@Badgerworkshop]

It really is not going anywhere

[@JimmiWazEre]

I wonder why the barrel collapsed, there should be an actual serious negative pressure situation inside there? Is the barrel just much thinner than it looks?

[@Mikey-vd6op]

The tip about warm water was very helpful. Thanks Matt . Don't have a band saw so might try making a router jig.

[@Badgerworkshop]

I struggled for ages before I worked that out. It does not need to be perfectly round so a jigsaw would also work.

[@MrGeoffreySmith]

Jigasaurous Rex!! 😀😀

[@Badgerworkshop]

Haha

[@steveraynes55]

Hi Matt really good 2 videos on the cyclone, I am in the process of making mine. Have you considered the problem of Static electricity and how to earth it or am i just making problems for myself, your thoughts wood be appreciated.

[@dtwistrewind7361]

This keeps happening to me I just flip the shop vac and blow it back up with blow function but it's still a pain in the arse, so it's your way or a pressure relief valve.

[@The_man_himself_67]

Lol. I just had the same problem. Got myself a huge 55 gallon drum for free. Attached it to my cyclone, feeling rather smug, and watched it crumple like paper. And it was a pig of a job to uncrumple it. My solution was less elegant than yours but so far, so good?

[@Badgerworkshop]

I did this about two weeks ago and no problems since

[@doobedoobedo1]

I use a fermenting bin, but that's exactly the same solution I used :)

[@Badgerworkshop]

Works well

[@doobedoobedo1]

@@Badgerworkshop I think the barrel is probably better than a fermenting bin as it's inherently stronger, when I first put mine together it would collapse as soon as I turned the vac on. I needed a couple of reinforcing rings. Still works really well though.

[@christophergiddings6387]

Has anyone tried this with a bit of steel band or strap on the inside of the barrel? Seems like it would give less of a lip for dust to collect on and be easier to fit.

[@Josh_Luijsterburg]

Did u glued the cut of the circle? Otherwise the ring might crack when collapsing? Great jig Matt👍👍👍

[@Badgerworkshop]

I did not. Its strong enough

[@JohnMadeit]

I was thinking the same idea. I I might have to do mine in different segments and rejoin them inside the barrel. Was the one ring enough for you?

[@Badgerworkshop]

One ring of 18mm ply for this little barrel was fine. I was your had a smaller opening so yes I think you would have to re join them inside.

[@Belg1970]

Has this solved the problem completely?

[@Badgerworkshop]

It has for me

[@uktony1525]

Matt, does the ring make it much more difficult to empty?.

[@Badgerworkshop]

A little

[@dominicdgt]

Why not just adjust the valve on the cyclone?

[@Badgerworkshop]

What valve?

[@dominicdgt]

@@Badgerworkshop easy to make if not already fitted, www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0174MGW2G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[@Badgerworkshop]

@@dominicdgt no need to fit as I have reinforced the barrel

[@mastertoolman9377]

Do your research before making your project. two buckets the same type one inside the other. job done without of the frustration.

[@philipjones9297]

What exactly did you do to make the barrel collapse? I’ve been using the same cyclone for years with no problems

[@Badgerworkshop]

if the hose gets blocked

[@marB84]

I thought those barrels were more solid than that...

[@Badgerworkshop]

They are pretty think but still collapse

[@DuncanEdwards.]

I had one, it collapsed within hours as there is no rigid support, Matt's solution might also create new problems down the line as I have seen on other youtubers, something to do with the airflow

[@marB84]

@@Badgerworkshop That's a shame... I hope the reinforcement will help! 🤞

[@Badgerworkshop]

I have had it a couple of weeks and working great now thank you