Story of Commodore from the Computer Engineers' Perspective

Commodore is gone, replaced with a superfund site, but the people who made the best computers in history are still around. At the 2016 Hackaday SuperConference, Bil Herd gave a talk on the second act of Commodore's three-act tragedy. Bil is a frequent contributor around these parts, and as always he illuminates the 1980s far better than Halt and Catch Fire ever could.
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hackaday.com/?p=235434
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Learn about the Hackaday SuperConference:
hackaday.io/superconference/

[@curiousottman]

Went with my 6 year old son to meet Bil in 2016 at world of commodore in Toronto. One of the nicest guys around. Very engaging and clever. Signed my 128. My son still talks to his friends about the day he met Bil.

[@thanatosprime5563]

A fantastic tour of the making of the first computer I bought for myself. Thank you for being a part of some of the happiest memories of my life.

[@sluggotg]

Thanks Bill! I have read books and watched videos.. I am amazed by the Commodore story! I grew up as a Coin Op Kid, (although my first experience with Video Games was a Magnavox Odyssey when i was 10). In the late 70's/early 80's, I was a hard core Coin Op video gamer.. I joined the Navy in 82 and saw my first computer games in 84... I was blown away, My Friend was playing Ultima 2 on an Apple...(Green screen monitor.. looked like crap.. and the sound was crap)... it was the firs Non Linear game I had ever seen. I started looking into computers... My older Brother, (also in the Navy), told me he had purchased a C64.. The next time I got to visit him.. in Hawaii I saw his C64 and it blew me away!! In 1985 my Ship started a Westpac and I went to the Navy Exchange and bought a C128, with a 1571 disk drive.... I wanted to "One Up" my older brother... The C128 was an Amazing Computer... but for me, (Being a New Computer Geek in 1985), I used the C64 Mode 99% of the time... all the way till I bought an Amiga! But seriously the C128 was magical! Bill keep up the faith! Sluggo C64/C128/Amiga forever!!

[@46I37]

Thanks Bil for capturing such an amazing part of computing history!

[@mark12358]

Thanks Bil for that beauty C128 your team created. Cheers!

[@sammymcfone8281]

Go64 much? Lol jk

[@lorenzol.8798]

This is the most epic talk I've ever seen.

[@C64Television]

Totally worth the hour spent watching this! I thought I knew the whole story about the end of Commodore, but there is always somebody who can add more information. Thanks for posting this great video! :-)

[@gregha04756]

love the '80s. hacked a little on a Commodore Pet back in the day. great presentation, thanks Bil.

[@nowt835]

Fantastic talk. Thank you so much for the details and fascinating insights!

[@landspide]

That's one beautiful story behind a bodge wire :) thanks Bil.

[@RossPotts]

Awesome. I remember my friends VIC-20 and the sprites we would program. fast forward 3 or 4 years and my first computer is a C128D. I loved that thing. good times...

[@WavemStudios]

Great insight awesome, we look forward to interviewing Bil in August for The Commodore Story documentary...

[@vincenzodeconcilio7610]

I still have fond memories of the C16, despite its flaws - thanks Bil!

[@LightSoySauce]

awesome talk Bil thank you

[@brostenen]

Back when computers were actually interresting. I was a total computer geek. Then as time went by, and I became older. Then computers got borring and I turned 25 years of age. That was in the early 00's it all went bad. I mean really bad. Computers had no soul left. Everything became too automated and streamlined. The 80's was the wild west of the computerworld. The 90's was the industrialisation of the computerworld and the 00's was the dystophian age of computers. Proud to say that I was there to experience the tight community of computers through 20 years.

[@user17v]

brostenen i agree

[@3089io]

How do we take it back? We are in an age of unprecedented ability to hack stuff. Build small computers with near infinite capability... I think we were all hijacked by the whole world coming online, but the things we can do with these machines (and tiny versions of the machines before) is massive. I can put a whole production line on my desktop. I think the interesting is coming back in the next couple years. We don't need the advertisement slabs and people are sick of them. The tools are here for something similar to the revolution that happened in the homebrew computer club. We just have to break out of the rectangles and figure out what's next. The corps won't do it for us. That is not a rhetorical question though, do you have any thoughts on what would make computers interesting to you again?

[@boumerguy7042]

In the 80's there was no internet, no security, no multi users, no passwords, no multi task, no USB... of course everything was simple. I understand why today developers want to use frameworks and stacks because it works almost on every computer in the world including mobiles. I don't think computers are boring, you just dont work anymore at hardware level.

[@pentachronic]

Cool to see the one of the minds behind the scene. I learned to program (assembly/6502 machine code) on a commodore PET-2000 with a chicklet keyboard when I was 13 !! Later in my career I developed the cross compiler hardware interface tools for many of the games systems. Analyzers, debuggers (in circuit emulators), cartridge emulators, cd emulators, etc.. Very fun days and a very creative time. The 80’s was a “what’s possible” time vs today which is a “what’s cost effective” time.

[@pentachronic]

CD32 was a cartridge interface, Amiga used PCMCIA addon, etc. CPU sockets were used to cycle steal.

[@KilianMuster]

Awesome talk. Recently when I reminisce about what was and what could've been, I also find myself sighing about Commodore 64 & Amiga, because they never failed as products, but merely due to bad management. Such a loss. And such a shame. C=64 and the Amiga were the two computers I fell in love with… I still love my Mac though, mostly because with OS X it actually became everything that the Amiga aspired to be…

[@robertmccully2792]

He was brilliant,, half the battle is jealous people and the ones that don’t care. Great Job!

[@kentvandervelden]

I've considered attending the SuperConference, but it's a long flight. To see people like Bil Hurd, it should be well worth it. But I wonder why is the audience for these fantastic talks so small? Is attendance small or are their even greater stuff going on? Thank you

[@jamesburke2759]

I love the saying that "you have to go fast enough that you'd make mistakes". im glad im not the only one who ever thought that way

[@jordancobb509]

When your boss says "Fix it or you're fired" is the exact moment to demand a raise before you solder another connection.

[@pqrstzxerty1296]

I worked at Commodore UK as a Senior Engineer in Special Projects, the C128 was so complicated and crashy that we nobbled a CDA design engineer at Philips to work for in our team. In fact Ocean Software worked out away of running the C128 in both C64 and C128 mode at the sametime on the C128 for copy protections, Ocean did simular with the Amiga. I had so many arguments with Ocean over this as it was over compatable throu pcb versions and overheated chips. There are some many hidden secrets in CBM chips. Who is going to talk about the Gary virus because CBM didnt pay the engineer his wages ? So many CBM internal stories, so many special PCB. Little known secrets, Philips got involved and modified the C64 and Amiga. The C65 was never going to happen, only a C128 versions 2, but the A600 etc killed the project off.

[@TopSecretVid]

Thank you Bill

[@zaitarh]

Awesome to see the legend commodore engineer that designed the C128! I am amazed how poor the conditions were at commodore and once again disappointed at the management...

[@ebb2421]

wow 1982, my first computer, developed ROMCORDER with it. Read video game carts from atari, coleco, vectrex, intellivision and a few others. Transferred the data to tape (then disk when it came out), a game library system. Upload the data into battery powered static RAM emulation cartridges for the target console and run the game. Intellivision was the most difficult cartridge to emulate with the multiplexed address/data bus...then the console market died~1984.....good times

[@UXXV]

eb b any more info on this?

[@electronash]

eb b Wait a sec - you're not eb from assemblergames by any chance?

[@federicoalbesa3748]

Un verdadero video motivacional. Excelente. Q buena charla. Gracias.

[@DasIllu]

I remember much of the folklore around the C-128. And to see one of the guys from the SYS32800,123,45,6 gang screen makes me happy. I learned machine code programming on the C-128 because it had a build in monitor and was easily accessible, i also learned a few things about hardware and even timings, because i had my fun messing around with the REU. Now i start to see why DMA to the color ram always produced garbage. The C-128 was a fantastic computer just for learning and experimenting with. I spent hundrets of hours writing stupid code, soldering stuff that went on the userport or joystick port.

[@madcommodore]

Great talk. I wish I was there to ask Bil why the C128 ended up having to run at 1mhz to be able to use the VIC-II and what was the problem that couldn't be solved e.g. discovered it too late or due to heat issues at those speeds etc making it impossible.

[@kcgeil]

Looks like that Commodore curvy "D-Series" was the computer featured in the 80s movie "Electric Dreams"?

[@brucemcfarling7810]

I took a keyboard C128 with me to Grenada when I was a Peace Corps volunteer there after the invasion. I donated it to the school, and got a (metal) C128D with part of my readjustment allowance when I got back. Shortly after I got it, I plugged the power tap for my printer port into the datassette port upside down, and it fried the processor ... so I went back to using my C64. I used it as my word processor through my first two years of grad school. I had a daisywheel processor, and in the days of dot matrix printers, I had some of the nicer looking papers handed in, even thought it was done on The Write Stuff from Busy Bee software.

[@amanuense]

awesome talk!

[@perfectmachinegames]

Actually the description is a bit incorrect. The superfund site is where MOS technologies was. The headquarters for commodore is now QVC

[@marcusmccormick4407]

Amazing knowledge

[@chris-do]

Still have my my C=128D in 2022. Bil Storys are pure entertainment for me. P.S.: i have a red wire on my PCB ;-)

[@Nostrum84]

Hahah what a presentation :D Amazing guy. Some of the info needs to be placed on Wiki. They have a page for almost every MOS chip.

[@KarlHamilton]

Could listen to Bil talk about CBM for hours on end. And sometimes I do. Lol.

[@JohnDoe-by5et]

No one has commented the lady sitting in the back (on the right-hand side of the screen from the camera's perspective)? She looks majorly bored: scrolling her smartphone, watching her fingernails, playing with her hair... Why attend something if it bores you to death? She looks like she's there as a punishment.

[@user-yr1uq1qe6y]

Looks like me in a shoe store....bored to death and there against my will.

[@susancrawford-young8432]

really wild - Engineers need more respect

[@osearthesp]

Yes all us self taught technerds for that matter ;]

[@005AGIMA]

I hate fanbois but the odd truth is, if Commodore were still in business, i'd be a fanboi.

[@tyr8338]

VERY interesting story.

[@ArumesYT]

First he talks about an LCD Computer. Then the C128. I can't help noticing that the C128 is so low on the rear end that there's still room for an LCD screen on top to make it flush with the keyboard part. Coincidence?

[@parkkuman]

Awesome. I had no idea :D And also everybody loves Dave Haynie. Nice that KZbin allows watching long docs with x2 speed

[@RabidRat88]

fascinating. great to hear about all the little anecdotes. thank you. so much wasted potential at commodore because of clueless management without a vision. they could have been the apple of today at half the price.

[@michaelblair5566]

From 1983 until 1990 I loved my Commodore machines. Unfortunately I replaced my 128 with a 286 AT Clone insteaad of an Amiga, and I cried about that. I work in computers so it was the corect decision though.

[@GeorgeTsiros]

anyone know what the intro song is?

[@robwebnoid5763]

Here in late 2021. What is the reason for the "D" in D-128, before it was renamed to C-128?

[@mrt.7146]

I'm at 24:25, and I still have no idea which computer he has 5 months to get done ... riveting stuff 🥳 @28:20 - ahhh, that's right, now I get it also 😂

[@francoisleveille409]

If only somebody had a 'mapping' of the 8721...

[@patrickmurphy8216]

vic-20. what fun

[@ListWits]

Holy cow.. if Commodore had gotten off the ground with the LCD computers... "WHY listen to the competition!!"

[@andrewmcgurth6677]

Why is the volume so weak on this?

[@dhpbear2]

and distorted!

[@be236]

Awkward question here, but serious: Is Bill missing a finger on his left hand?

[@KarlHamilton]

Yeah, DIY accident at home. Always remove your wedding ring.

[@bobns509]

27 million... yet nobody ever saw serial number greater than 12million

[@thecdchannel4434]

Hey! Who's that slacker seen at 2:24 in the last row, fiddling around with her mobile phone in the middle of a speech by this legend. How disrespectful!

[@KasaiLifeTV]

Peeping Tom it's not that serious

[@005AGIMA]

she "could be" taking notes on her phone. Not uncommon.

[@officermeowmeowfuzzyface4408]

Publish the 128's PLA tower card And C64C!

[@MatthewSuffidy]

I had a c64 with a bad power brick that would start corrupting the entire screen, before locking the computer up.

[@frugalprepper]

It's cool how they used to solve problems with hardware the way I solve problems with linux these days.

[@markteague8889]

Does her Mac Book actually have the Apple Logo over cross bones to make a sort of Jolly Roger?!? :P

[@jamesburke2759]

My Dad dropped my 128D and im missing it every day :(

[@charleshines6155]

I was alive all through the 80s

[@FlyingPhilUK]

Halt & Catch Fire! Lolz!

[@iangodfrey4518]

deadpan audience :-/ It saddens me today that Commodore is so unknown - especially in the USA.

[@osearthesp]

5:05 _"We didn't call longhair, a mullet back then. If you did we'd be _*_talkin'."_* Bill lays it down! Threatening an epic "talkin'" while defending us cool business casual individuals to sport a classy mullety mane! Time can be a cruel jester, be you a young spiked, debonair feathered or otherwise topfront'd brother. Ironically we all proudly assumed, no we knew that the look was totally anti-nerd and clearly future proof.. :) hehe

[@osearthesp]

5:05 _"We didn't call longhair, a mullet back then. If you did we'd be *talkin'.*"_ Bill lays is down! Threatening an epic "talkin' to" while defending us cool business casual individuals to sport a classy mullety mane! Time can be a cruel jester, be you a young spiked, debonair feathered or otherwise topfront'd brother, we all proudly assumed, no we knew the look was totally anti nerd and future proof. What irony :) hehe

[@jessebaldwin7297]

bottled water will never take off

[@woodiemarv]

The more I hear about commodore. The more I wish IBM or some other company owned it. Commodore was a dumpster fire of a company with good engineers.

[@BryonLape]

Another company killed by the marketing department

[@richmcintyre1178]

I wouldn't brag about the C16 and the Plus 4.

[@glifwsatti]

eeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuummm

[@teme007]

I love how he bash apple :D

[@imho4990]

Why?

[@alanpwhelan]

Umm

[@Archimedes75009]

None of this looks very serious, to me.

[@jefft4488]

Slams Apple while using a macbook

[@hackaday]

Proof that he knows what he's talking about?

[@tinotrivino]

Too much: ahm... try to avoid it its anoying :p good video though!

[@mercster]

Strangely disappointing.

[@mercster]

I contracted for the USAF at one point, in one of the hallway lobbies there was a Cray-1 sitting there as a bench. It was beautiful.

[@no_fb]

And that is why one should rehearse a talk before giving it. Very bad presentation on all accounts.