Outrage Over Shadow of Erdtree DLC: The Truth

Outrage Over Shadow of Erdtree DLC: The Truth
There's some outrage brewing over the Shadow of the erdtree DLC. It'sgetting blasted on steam reviews. People are asking for refunds. Influencers saying the game is too hard. Everyone believes this game doesn't deserve the criticism. Or does it? Let's find out if Shadow of the Erdtree really is too hard, or if history repeated itself once again in the form of low frame rates and a crazy taxi camera drunk on its own power.
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CHAPTERS:
00:00 - INTRO
02:51 - CHAPTER 1 - INPUT READING
15:17 - CHAPTER 2 - PROGRESSION SYSTEM
21:09 - CHAPTER 3 - LEAVE YOUR EGO AT THE DOOR
28:28 - CHAPTER 4 - THE MAJORITY VOTES ARE MIXED
MUSIC:
KnockOut - TrackTribe
Modern Attempt - TrackTribe
On The Rocks - TrackTribe
Smoke - Lish Grooves
Smoke Jacket Blues - TrackTribe
Smokey's Lounge - TrackTribe
"RetroFuture Clean, Raw, Burn The World Waltz, Backbay Lounge", "Bass Vibes", "Cool Vibes", "Deadly Roulette", "Hard Boiled", "I Knew a Guy", "Night in Venice", "Night of Chaos", "Pixelland", "Spy Glass", "Study And Relax", "Walking Along" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)

[@matteckert130]

Reaction speed is the bigger problem. Obviously, AI needs input reading to react properly, but it shouldn't be able to react faster than any human reasonably could. We want a level playing field, it's not fun to fight an opponent who only kills you because it has super human reaction speeds.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

It is a level playing field, though. You could get poked by the main game bosses too for popping, it's just the likelihood they'd do it was dialed down so it seemed reasonable because it rarely happened. Fromsoft developes in a reactionary way, which is a good thing. If people complain that there's too much filler content, they kill the filler and increase the size and complexity of the dungeons they do have. If they notice you are abusing summons, now bosses have arena wide attacks that will punish you for summoning the moment the fight starts. Roll way too much, get roll catched. They plug holes as they find them, and leave others wide open. In other words, when Miyazaki closes a door, he opens a window. Just watch the rest of the video, you'll see what I mean. In the DLC, you HAVE to wait until the boss is in the middle of an animation before healing. I mean, look, I played the same game as you. What I do is roll early and wait until the final swing, and before the recovery frames start, I pop. I've learned the distance and timing and you will too if you concentrate on just those mechanics for a little while. Trust me. It's great once you get used to it. I'm going to pin this so people can debate their points here instead of posting the same comment over and over. I'm open to good arguments, and I understand that your experience is not my experience, but if you can't do something, and someone else can, the proper way to go about things is not to reject help and say: "no, it's too hard." It may be too hard for you, and it may be only too hard for you now. But if you listen to advice, and be open, you might find yourself actually improving. But you have to want to, and if you don't want to, then this game is not for you, and I agree with all of your complaints. It's all I can do.

[@matteckert130]

@StratEdgyProductions WE have to wait until the boss is in the middle of an animation to react, the boss can react before our animation even starts. That's not fair or fun. I'm not saying saying there aren't ways around this issue, I exploit these things as much as the next player, but it does feel like complete BS that the enemies can react the instant I press the corresponding button when I would at least have to wait until I see the animation before I can react. Sure I could predict the enemies actions but in that case I'm still capable of getting it wrong.

[@TheFuriousMulatto]

If you are ACTUALLY being killed by the enemy purely because they have increased reaction time, the MUCH larger issue is that you are trying to beat an enemy who has outclassed you in a certain skill. This also means that you are not utilizing, at fucking all, ANY of the unique advantages you have as a human fighting against AI, such as neural plasticity. The AI only has so many reactions it can make to your attacks. It can only do what it is programmed to do. You can literally have unlimited ways of responding to certain attacks the AI throws at you. This is literally a "git gud" moment lmao

[@MisterZimbabwe]

@TheFuriousMulatto Nah, that's stupid and you're stupid for huffing the copium that is "I just need to git gud to overcome this blatantly bullshit unfair mechanic". FromSoft have stagnated in their souls like game design. If Nioh 2 can do everything souls games are known for but better, more interesting, AND allows for the bullshit to go both ways, then Elden Ring has zero excuses for just cranking up the robot-reaction times in place of designing around both players and NPCs getting to use bullshit mechanics.

[@Seidr-Bane]

@@MisterZimbabwe Okay

[@UncleBalthasarGelt]

I'm so tired of my dad input reading my dodges, I have bruises everywhere now. Reported and refunded. 😢

[@StratEdgyProductions]

How do you refund a dad, and also, what kind of value does he lose the moment you take him off the lot?

[@TOAOM123]

Im fatherless Ill take him off your hands

[@zorochii]

I always thought my dad would be the one with the option to refund me.

[@Frugustin]

I hate when I finally learn belts swing patterns and dad does a giant beer can AOE. Fucking bullshit.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

​@@StratEdgyProductions Dad's actually have decent resale value. Not as good as moms though

[@damienjohnson3450]

"Keep crying and the next game will have a poison swamp boss room with those hand monsters hiding just below the water line" - Miyazaki probably

[@ooooBrianGriffinoooo]

Diabolical

[@aristedes9449]

Dark Souls 2 had a poison bossroom

[@ooooBrianGriffinoooo]

@@aristedes9449 but you could disable the poison

[@user-ct8dm7ez4r]

@@ooooBrianGriffinoooo not completly. Just make it so it isn't spilled across the entire room.

[@damienjohnson3450]

@ooooBrianGriffinoooo keep crying, and you can negate the poison with an item I hid beside 3 secret doors and an optional extremely difficult boss fight.

[@endlessmars5735]

I went in to a cave, thinking it was just another, nah, this cave had four elevators leading down and now I am in one of those big-trees-holding-up-the-underground areas and I can't summon my goat. Best DLC ever.

[@piotr78]

I saw actual complaints about this part on Reddit because it isn't clearly indicated on the map that that's how you enter that zone. Just shoot me already pls...

[@Levi-rz1je]

@@piotr78 It's like nobody remembers the hidden areas in DS1. A fog wall behind a fog wall behind a fog wall

[@bleeem]

@@Levi-rz1je that is the exact case, everybody complaining suddenly forgot the existence of Dark Souls 1,2,3, bloodborne, Sekiro and every single thing they had. secret areas, gimmick enemies or bosses and a bunch of other things that were all liked or neutral, now suddenly in elden ring are the worst thing ever. i think gamers in 2024 are just addicted to finding reason to complain to fulfill their egos

[@HagalazI]

Health bar not full. Pressed X. Now health bar empty >:(

[@HagalazI]

Elden Ring's greatest sin was audience escape.

[@samueldawkins]

​@@HagalazIcringe

[@akaexl479]

because you jumped!!

[@Camacho4Prez2024]

aiight so apparently scadu is pronounced shadu as in Shadowtree fragment just like gaol = jail. It's another super old english language thing that FromSoft has resurrected. The DLC is quite literally the shadowrealm and we're in Shadow Altus collecting Shadowtree fragments. PSA over.

[@relishcakes4525]

World of war craft? Is that you?!

[@JustAnother_Alan]

Not beating the Skidibi tree fragments allegation

[@JellyJman]

Still calling them skibidi

[@KNGDDDE]

No is skah-doo. Or sah-doo

[@Camacho4Prez2024]

@@KNGDDDE yeah if you wanna replicate the accent of people from THAT time. But it's just as accurate to say it's SHADOW because the meaning is exactly the same. That's the entire point of knowing that gaol is the same as jail, so there's no reason to say GEY-OLH.

[@maximilian1588]

Why didnt asmon just summon his Roaches to help him?

[@JankyToe]

What roaches? They were bottlecaps!

[@thecakeisalie5256]

Not enough mind

[@JunkYardCardGuy]

Too many minors in the way

[@Spit1990]

As far as exploration, we play the same way. You probably grew up on 3D platformers.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Mega man x, baybeee

[@pheenmachine]

@@StratEdgyProductions People seem to overlook that the original Dark Souls has a lot in common with Metroid and SoTN

[@scottbailey2788]

​@@StratEdgyProductionsGame of my childhood

[@evanpetelle5669]

@@StratEdgyProductions I’ll never love something more than

[@piotr78]

​@@pheenmachineTo be fair so does fromsoft. They've done the perfect metroidsoulsia thing ONCE in DS1 and then laid it to rest only vaguely pointing at it from time to time in other titles

[@IronArmPanda]

The combat went up a notch with this DLC IMO. A lot of enemies feel like you're in a PVP match. The Blackgaol knight at the beginning utterly and completely dodged one of my 3-hit combos by dodge rolling my heavy hit, and then hitting TWO jumps on my double light hit combo I tried to hit on his way up. I rolled away in disgust and to recompose myself at the absolute chad AI they created. Something you forgot about damage mitigation, LIVERS and incantations for damage reduction. You can reach 80% reduction on phys and elemental damage in the DLC with the frags, you don't even need a greatshield.

[@PPX14]

Oh god this sounds like the phantoms in DS3. Harder than the bosses.

[@sirverbalot]

@@PPX14 Holy Knight Hodrick was a menace in DS3.

[@jounalehtio2317]

What do you mean? That I have to play The Game so I can play The Game? Preposterous!

[@vincentmarcellino7183]

Fuck. We've all lost The Game because of you

[@OnTheBackOfBullets]

I was just talking to my friend who is fairly new to the souls games, and he's on NG+ with 40 vigor. I said I wasn't sure if that's gonna be enough to survive the DLC bosses. Turns out he's already downed two of them lol. I think folks can figure it out.

[@jrockgotit5032]

let him try without summons ;)

[@breadordecide]

@@jrockgotit5032 Nope. If the game cheats then I cheat.

[@user-ct8dm7ez4r]

@@jrockgotit5032 why? Game was made with using those in mind.

[@KhaledSham]

@@breadordecide ah so you know it isnt fair. we good then.

[@Ajme-kb4os]

@@jrockgotit5032you use summons? Jk obv

[@idontwantahandlethough]

My only REAL complaint about SoTE is that the map is literally too "vertical" for a map to be especially helpful. When there's 4 layers on top of each other, a top-down standard map ceases to be as useful as it used to be because I can't actually see the terrain of the bottom 3 layers, as they're blocked by the highest layer. However, idk how to fix this. They could offer a full rotatable 3D map (a la Metroid Prime), but I feel that would make exploration *_too_* easy. Not sure how to do a middle ground there.. maybe a system like Zelda where you can "flip" between the different floors of a dungeon, but for the whole map? Idk

[@juter1122]

Showing the floors like in Zelda

[@tydendurler9574]

Have no map, like every FromSoft game before. + Have no open world, like every FromSoft game before. = Better game. That also respects your time as a player. And not have 300+ weapons & 500+ bosses (sounds really ridiculous, right?).

[@JudgeNicodemus]

​@@tydendurler9574 You can just... Play the game like it's Dark Souls if you wanted to. You're absolutely free to go with a linear path, boss to boss, You definitely could do it. After all, these newfangled mechanics and exploration are only for casuls and you certainly aren't one.

[@EpicwinFTW27]

​@@tydendurler9574have all those features = best selling and best reviewed game ever created by the studio

[@piotr78]

I don't feel like I NEED a map for every single section though. Fully agree that making it too detailed would ruin..a lot

[@magmat0585]

My take on the DLC was that Elden Ring was considered by many souls veterans to be watered down a bit for new players to the series, and that the DLC was supposed to be more difficult for those people who wanted a harder challenge, and to force people out of their comfort zone. Speaking as one of those new people who doesn't pre-buff or get super tactical with my minmaxing my character, I'm still having fun with the exploration aspect of it. The whole "come back to an area you got decimated in a few hours ago, and completely wreck it" is entertaining

[@kishinasura1989]

I known when I first started it felt like when I first started the game I was grinning ear to ear 😂

[@abyss9316]

Seriously this conversation gets brought up every time a new from software game comes out whether it's a DLC or a full game it's pretty much the same talking points getting a little old at this point these games are not too hard to figure out they provide a system you need to learn to exploit otherwise you would bash your head on the proverbial wall trying to advance in this game to me the DLC is just a extension of the late game areas unless they put a boss in the DLC that saps your health like maleina all of this difficulty is very welcoming to a player such as me.... whenever I hit a roadblock or something difficult I smile laugh and try again

[@kidmosey]

I saw the opposite with Elden Ring, where people were calling it baby's first dark souls. Maybe that's the problem - the base game didn't properly temper expectations for the DLC. People who haven't played prior titles were unprepared.

[@icepic21]

12:06 Oooohhh, quoting Dakkon, are we? You just had to send my dopamine into maximum overdrive, ya magnificent Planescaping bastard.

[@shenotski]

Beat the Lion boss on my first try on my 2nd run. It's a very satisfying feeling to beat something you struggled with so much.

[@bruhvenant]

That's how I felt when I fought the 2nd one of those at Rauh. He beat my ass so hard in the first battle, felt good to wreck his shit in the rematch.

[@tylercafe1260]

It's technically not input reading as the enemy would respond much much faster if that were the case. Zullie the Witch did a great video showing it's actually "Animation Reading". Hence why Charged Spells will make bosses dodge them but an Uncharged Spell will generally always land. So it's a very intuitive idea. The enemy sees you do something they respond. All games do this to an extent. 5:05 So to put it simply when it's an "Input Read" it's looking at your controller basically. If you press X it responds the second that button is pressed. If it's "Animation Reading" they'll respond and react during the startup of the Animation. So for example if I throw a pot at Renalla but it's not that close she won't dodge. But if I throw it close to her she'll begin to be more responsive. That's the key difference between "Input Reading" and "Animation Reading". One is looking at your controller the other is looking at your character which is why the latter is deemed the more fair way to make your enemies. Hence why enemies can parry you but they're not always perfect at it. They're trying to simulate the AI "Reacting Authentically". Input reading is a very specific case and when it's Input Reading no one would lie about it because that important of a distinction and why we don't say every game has "Input Reading" but rather a "Reactive" kind of AI. If I throw a lingering AOE like a lava attack and the enemy chooses to avoid it that's an "Animation Read". The AI is understanding there is a physical thing there that will damage it if touched so it responds to it. Versus the AI saw you press X and then in responds immediately divebombs before you even move. That's the difference. So a knowledgeable gamer would deduce people are actually complaining that bosses are reacting too fast but lack the understanding and vocabulary to convey that idea. 7:02 That's literally how it works. Do you not know anything about videogames? 7:30 Now you're just baiting. Did you really not know Elden Rings biggest problem was the SLOWDOWNS??? Holy shit dude. Do any amount of research next time.

[@luhcsgrimm8857]

The map for the dlc is rough, i feel it would have been useful to have layers.

[@stevepenn2582]

counterpoint, it would be too easy if they had layers to navigate taking away some of the fun of it

[@benjaminpeterman7223]

The real Elden Ring was the Flat Circles we made along the way. I tell myself that I bear witness, but the truth is that I lack the constitution to Git Gud.

[@Pacal_II]

The difficulty is fine, the exploration and locations are great. The lore we find out regarding the crucible, Marika, godhood, fingers and ancient dragons is awesome. Only letdown for me was the conclusion of Miquella's story and the final boss being you know who.

[@IronArmPanda]

The funny thing about this is me and my buddy joked during the base game about what if we could fight this boss in their prime form 🤣. It was not a letdown for me, Miyazaki called our bluffs lol.

[@stanmanlyman4550]

Holy shit, voldemort is the final boss?! xD

[@SomeUnkindledAsh]

​@@IronArmPandai thought the same thing. Seeing prime Radahn was sublime for me

[@GangsterFrankensteinComputer]

The only let down for me was a couple areas being a bit empty and me spending 15 minutes out of my 50 hour playthrough looking at gorgeous scenery without finding valuable upgrade materials or fun new items.

[@sladelius6174]

Papa Guacamole being the final boss was crazy, yes.

[@Otinashi]

The only problem I have with corner ambushes is that it breaks the immersion. You're telling me in a village full of mobs that completely ignore you unless you attack first, where I haven't gotten into combat once, there's a random enemy just waiting in this corner for someone to pass by so they can attack the instant they see movement?

[@frazfrazfrazfraz]

One of my big gripes about the game in general is how it handles stealth. They added so much to how stealth works from ds3, with crouching and bushes and night time and spells like darkness and shadow lure Then they just make half the enemies cheat and instantly detect you a mile away or do random ambush attacks when you aren't anywhere close and they haven't seen you (cheating enemies usually ignore lures they would otherwise fall for btw) I don't understand why they would put so much effort into stealth if they were just going to make the enemies cheat constantly. It completely breaks my immersion and makes stealth feel so half baked I just see it as another symptom of how overly ambitious the game is, they wanted to have their scripted encounters and stealth at the same time, but with their workload, something had to break. And they cared about their scripted encounters more

[@Dogman262]

If that breaks your immersion you should not be playing the game while listening to youtube/spotify. Its clear that you're playing preoccupied

[@Otinashi]

@@Dogman262 ??? Do you know what immersion means?

[@Dogman262]

@@Otinashi Nope never heard of it in my entire life and i also dont understand your need to voice concern over such a minor and insignificant complaint

[@Dogman262]

@@Otinashi Oh God the enemies.... theyre attacking me!!!!!!! Immersion destroyed!!!

[@applcore]

Thank you for the Zerthimon philosophy. (Planescape mentioned!) This is how video games can teach growth mindset. It's also why I play RTS, the only other place I can find that feeling of adapting and overcoming. Transcribed for posterity: ----- My son asked me when this DLC came out, "like, why do people play games that are this frustrating? How is that fun?" He asked because I was in the middle of my 30th try on the Moon Knight boss, and I was understandably a little upset. "Why?", I asked him. "Because in knowing the teachings of Zerthimon, I've become stronger. You fear failure. See it as a failing in you as a person. "I learned that not knowing can be a tool. Just like flesh and steel. If upon encountering the unknown you attempt to understand its nature, time is not the enemy. The time you spend in failure is not time wasted. Unless you refuse to learn and adapt. "Time is an ally. Patience can sharpen even the smallest of efforts into a weapon. Your victories may be small, but over time a greater victory may be known. In other words, I endure. And in enduring, I grow strong."

[@CPalanysamy]

MY brother just picked up ER + DLC as his first Souls. Lo and behold he is pretty good at it, and also loving his innocence trying everything and upgrading useless weapons

[@bennj.3470]

Thanks for the vid King

[@blaineg525]

I disagree with you about the scadutree fragments, a lot of people have compared them to Golden Seeds from the base game. I agree with that except there are so many golden seeds in the base game that you could basically fully upgrade it twice. from what I can tell there are only enough scadutree fragments in the world to get exactly to the max blessing level, if they dropped from bosses or were more plentiful like golden seeds I would be fine with this system. but how they are now, you have to collect every single one to get to the max blessing, and that's pretty wack. Last thing, I have had no real problem with any of the boss designs.... until the final boss, it's unfair you basically have to play perfectly and even then some moves are undodgeable. they are by far the most difficult boss Fromsoft has designed, but the way they are I don't think that's a good thing.

[@aceinthehole5611]

Could not agree more. Besides Rellana and Messmer, I was a little disappointed with the main bosses not gonna lie. Dancing lion wasn't great, just felt like a tree spirit with some extras. And it's copied later too. Hippo is bad, Romina is probably the next best

[@blaineg525]

@@aceinthehole5611 I think putrescent knight was my least favorite really. I'll admit final boss is a spectacle of badassery, but the cascading flashbangs and undodgeable attacks kill it for me. I would never say the DLC is bad by any means, but scadutrees are a kinda wack design, and final boss has some bullshit moves. Also, fix the throwing daggers because wtf. Other than that love the DLC def worth 40 bucks

[@aceinthehole5611]

@@blaineg525 Yeah, putrescent Knight was a let down. Really thought that boss was gonna be st. Trina or at least sleep related. Midra was pretty good though, he felt like a base game boss.

[@Dogman262]

"You have to collect every one" The dlc is a fraction of the size of the lands between

[@KNIGHTMAREMANIAC]

​@@blaineg525No attack the final boss has is undodgeable

[@KyngD469]

16:35 You're assuming he's grinding Mohg's palace for runes.... Also it's far more rewarding to explore, find a dungeon, fight through it and gain levels, fight the boss and gain levels and maybe a cool item than it is to explore an area in HOPES of getting an item that means you dont get hit as hard. Because the flip side is that you get an item that doesnt do anything for you. The caves and catacombs of the base game at least gave you the experience of the dungeon, and boss fight and runes. The exploration of the DLC map does most of that, except the runes are useless if you have enough materials and if you dont get scadutree fragments, youre stuck exploring areas you may not have any interest in outside of clearing the next boss. basically you stop exploring for the experience and start exploring for the 1 item that helps you fight a boss. It limits your options of progression to a single item that is randomly scattered across the world and unlike golden seeds, you cant get more than the maximum so it's even more limiting. This would be fine, if the bosses didnt have 2-shot attacks in each other 5-7 hit comboes that move at light speed, catch and stun lock you.

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

The blessing levels give you vastly more than any rune level can and each major area has several easily accessible fragment locations. I'm a defender of the mini-dungeons of the base game but the DLC areas are much more varied.

[@BoJangles42]

The discourse about this DLC is like a debate over how much fun five finger filet is if you play it with your nutsack instead of your hand

[@datbass6705]

I disagree with your framing of the scadutree mechanic. It's not a matter of liking exploring vs not liking exploring; it's a matter of how the scadutree fragments kind of railroad you into a certain version of exploring where you're scouring every nook and cranny. Like, in the base game, first of all, if you feel too weak for an area, you have two things you always know you can do to get stronger: 1. grind for runes 2. go to any upgrade material caves you see on the map Toss in "go to a ruined church to probably get a flask quality upgrade" in there too, if you want (golden seeds, I'll grant you, are more elusive, but most of those, too, you get from golden saplings, which you can see from a ways away). One of those first two you can do anywhere, and the second and third you have an idea of where to go for as soon as you have the map fragment for your area. Moreover, the fact that you can spend runes you get anywhere on levels means that anywhere you go, you're making your character meaningfully stronger. The same can't be said of Shadow of the Erdtree. If you have something you want to do that you're feeling walled off by due to high enemy health... well, Scadutree fragments could be anywhere, on any corpse, so you're kind of forced to look over every inch of the map or consult a guide for them to get stronger if an area's enemies are doing too much damage to you and you're doing too little damage to it for your tastes. This could be easily fixed by just making bosses drop them. That way, just like in base ER, anywhere you choose to explore, you're also improving your character. Also, I find your response to complaints about the damage curve at around 24:00 uncompelling. I know there are options to reduce incoming damage somewhat, but I think the "baseline"--like, where it's at for a character wearing typical mid-weight armor--is still rather high considering how complex the bosses' patterns are. I thought this much of Base Elden Ring too. I DON'T think it's reasonable to design the damage curve around the best armor, because that makes it feel less like a build choice and more like a price of entry for most players. I'm saying this as someone who's been really enjoying the DLC (and who really enjoyed Elden Ring), for what it's worth.

[@geordiejones5618]

Bro I've collected 25 and haven't used a single one, down Divine Beast and Rellana at 40 vigor, no shield or summons. They both took a while but I still did it because the core mechanics always hold up, otherwise how would these RL1 no hit runs be possible? The exploration is great. I'm a father with primary care responsibilities, a job and a writing hobby. What's your excuse? Optimize your build or use every resource if you don't wanna search for them. Otherwise you know how it goes. Get good.

[@datbass6705]

@@geordiejones5618 I’ve already beaten most of it, and I just said I liked it. Hell, I killed Messmer the second time I saw his second phase. Please stop assuming that just because I have criticisms I’m bad lmao

[@mausklick1635]

100% They turned exploration from something fun and open ended into busywork.

[@kos_]

This is pretty much exactly how I feel, both parts. I've already beat the DLC, but a lot of his arguments in this vid felt very stupid. I do not want to scour every single nook and cranny of the map, and its weird to try to force the players to do this. It is a valid criticism to mention how this was not done in base game, and how people can view this as a bad change to the game. Saying any changes to the DLC are bad doesn't just mean "the game just isnt for you," people are allowed to have criticisms with game systems.

[@GangsterFrankensteinComputer]

They're not on any random corpse etc... A sizable chunk of them are en route to the main bosses, marked with the huge golden crosses. The Golden Hippo boss drops 2, and the 4 lesser Golden Hippo mini bosses around that area drop one each. One boss guards a room containing 5 fragments. The majority of the rest are at reoccuring statues of Marika. Which are located at all the major buildings visible on the map. Only 3 are actually hidden, being carried by the guys carrying the shining pots who run away from you. If you only collect the fragments from the bosses and the ones shown to you on the maps given to you: You will get a 33% damage reduction out of a maximum possible ~51%, and, a 50% attack boost out of a maxumum possible ~101%.

[@real100thfloor]

I didn't pick up the DLC because I couldn't be bothered to play through the base game again. I was one of the players who noticed early that the bosses in Elden Ring like to delay a lot, and since I play fighting games, I know the answer to a player who always delays is to just mash into them every time and I had no problem blasting through the game by playing more aggressive than I would normally. I am the fighting game player who delays on wakeup a lot. I fucking hate when people mash on me after they're knocked down, but they're just noticing my pattern. I'm not about to quit over it. The bosses have a lot of dead angles too, like in boxing you can sort of cling to the boss and if you play unlocked a lot of stuff straight up just won't be able hit you. It's a tradition for me to do my first playthrough of a souls game with no summons, and using sword and board since I grew up on 3d Zelda and always felt like Dark Souls was kind of like adult Zelda. I was getting through the game so fast that if I got stuck on where to go there were no resources online telling me what to do so I spent a lot of time trying to discern elevations on the map like you did for the DLC. I do want to play the DLC eventually so I haven't been checking out too much about it, can't pass up a Strat-Edgy video though. I'm seeing a lot of close quarters levels! I hate walking through open fields, ngl. I like the legacy dungeons, but after a first playthrough there isn't much of that feeling of discovery and exploration for me in the open world. I want something that feels more like a level. On my 2nd playthrough I got this weird feeling like From Software is trying to cynically manipulate my dopamine receptors while I'm walking through the open world ."Can we just get to the game already?". I feel like that should be beneath them. I genuinely would prefer level select because the legacy dungeons are great. Just my opinion obviously. Things being closely packed in the DLC is a big plus for me. Having to balance resists sound like traditional ARPGs, I love that. Having a strong reason to explore sounds awesome. Being humbled by the game sounds even better! I don't really want to deal with crappy performance though so I'm cool with waiting a bit. Looks fun though. That milady sword looks sick too. Perfect sword for a flamboyant duelist character, like my first Pathfinder character. Definitely picking up the DLC once I can get myself to play through the game again. I'll probably just throw on some music while I'm riding through the open world and pretend Torrent has an aux.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

"like in boxing you can sort of cling to the boss and if you play unlocked a lot of stuff straight up just won't be able hit you." Fuck yeah, it's like when you cross your foot outside their lead and pivot and hook, you can literally do the same thing to bosses in Elden Ring. We used to call it baiting the hook back in the gym. "Things being closely packed in the DLC is a big plus for me. " You'll like the DLC because when I started finding these secret areas in the game, I was like, oh this is like Dark Souls, wheras the base game had a map that was so open, the only places you'd find hidden shit was in a cave or crypt and the open world lacked a sense of exploration, in a way. "I don't really want to deal with crappy performance though so I'm cool with waiting a bit." Yeah, if you can wait, and you had problems with the base game, like I did, it's best to wait. Frankly, I am trying to figure out how to do either a captain america or indiana jones build for my next run.

[@btchiaintkidding7837]

sounds like you will like the DLC

[@machomandalf2893]

Damn, bro went to yappin

[@JoeNeutrino]

Some people really don't like it when healing isn't free.

[@wintergaming90]

They don't like the fact they can't heal tank and have to grind out bosses for hours to not get hit. With these types of players, 2 scenarios play out: - Due to skill issue, they botch avoiding a move. They panic heal and the boss wastes them. - Due to skill issue, they botch avoiding a move. They know to heal during a boss animation but due to skill issue they botch avoiding the move and get wasted. They get stuck in an infinite loop of frustration because of their poor reflexes and call out the game's design as bad.

[@gaychampagnesocialist7213]

@@wintergaming90 I...I heal-tanked Radahn-Prime, and it wasn't hard really? In fact, I think the vast majority of bosses are pretty easily tankable level 150+ provided you research what to tank for. IE, Miq's holy bullshit requires either a buff or a talisman to deal with.

[@waldoc]

I basically have one gripe with the DLC, and that’s the final boss. His first stage is great- it’s refreshingly slow and well telegraphed, so it feels fair when you get hit. However, when he acquires his back-riding, floodlight-wielding boy-wife, it falls apart for me. There’s just way too much visual clutter on the screen that the boss just doesn’t have to deal with. Might just be me, but this is the only time I’ve felt that From has sacrificed readability for the sake of spectacle.

[@XoperationblackX]

100% agreed, the final boss first phase is immaculate besides one move that fextralife doesn't even know how to dodge lol, second phase though is some of the least fun I had in a boss fight second to bed of chaos. Fps killer and my entire screen being turned bright white was not fun.

[@ember4303]

Second phase feels WAY over-designed. Cool spectacle but it's a real pain in the rear

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

​@@XoperationblackX Fextralife are a terrible thing to take as an authority on most things but how to avoid attacks is the last thing I'd take advice from them on.

[@dasaggropop1244]

i used to think this type of gameplay is not for me... until i tried it

[@cat_jk00]

Haven't played yet but commenting for the algorithm to support my favorite dude. Keep up the smart, strong authorial voice and unique presentation.

[@Syenthros]

Counter point: FInal boss of the DLC *still* obliterates me so fast that my runes are still outside the fog wall. With 75% negation. Yeah, the complaints are often overblown, but some of the criticism here is legitimate.

[@davidburnett5049]

I havent gotten there yet, but anyone saying its easy for a normal player is speaking falsehoods.

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

Poast vigor

[@Syenthros]

@@fastenedcarrot9570 What?

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

@@Syenthros How much vigor do you have?

[@Syenthros]

@@fastenedcarrot9570 70

[@bilskirnir_]

Great Shield lads are one of my favorite summons in the game. Happy to see others using them.

[@paxluporum4447]

Yeah booooi I love them. Hoplites were successful for a reason.

[@bchro]

Great video. This is the best content From Software has produced by far. I think your point about using the map falls flat for the Rauh Base map fragment. I felt that one was too hidden. I think they should’ve put at the beginning of Rauh Ruins considering it’s the most labyrinthine area in the DLC. I spent a couple hours looking for that fragment.

[@bchro]

Using the map is actually a red herring in that case. Trying to head toward the map fragment directly won’t work.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Actually, yeah. If this was an analysis, I def would have talked about that because that fragment sucked to find. I spent an insane amount of time trying to find something I couldn't find, but as a result, I found a bunch of stuff I wouldn't have normally found, so, in a way, I think it worked, even though I hated it at first.

[@mattshuey1]

I made it all the way to the tree looking for that map lol. I found Messmer's room long after I had already explored the entirety of Rauh's topside. That place was glorious, what a honeycomb of discovery.

[@jmarvins]

i had the opposite experience - i found the map fragment before i had any clue how to get to the ruins themselves and spent the whole game staring at the map speculating until i made it :P

[@verymelonman12]

The section on Asmongold there just encapsulates why I hate the "git gud" meme that infected Souls fandom and turned them into a nuisance to interact with. The game gives you these tools to use for a reason. Using them is not "cheating yourself out of the experience".

[@VultureXV]

This is 1000% more relevant when you engage more with an off-meta or challenging build. Yes, I'm gonna summon Kristoff against Malenia and utilize his knock back and stagger when my main form of damage is Bloody Slice. I'm going to use frost pots and the self-poison from deadly poison perfume for extra damage. I'm going to use a parry tool if she's focused on me, and immediately switch to a damaging option once her eyes are off me to ping-pong threat as much as possible so she doesn't turn my summon into an estus buffet.

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

Eh, using summons sucks because the bosses just can't deal with the split aggro still. The whole "dance" aspect that I find fun is gone and they feel quite erratic.

[@mcquadex]

I've really been enjoying the dlc up until the two last bosses I've fought really put me in a conflicted mood. Those bosses were Midra and Bayle. These guys were tough ass fights and a true test of your skill. They're also similar in the fact that just getting to their boss arena is no small feat and can be harder than most legacy dungeons. After winning these fights, I expected to much more than just a remembrance as a reward. I wanted something more like a cutscene or NPC dialogue or even just one more room after the boss fight with some lore for a true closure after a hard fight victory. I just got a remembrance and that's it. I just turn around and walk back the way I came. This really really sucks it really is my only complaint with the dlc so far

[@ferklk]

"it cannot cancel that animation to try and hit you" but it certainly can do a 360 flip to change and adjust his attacks. the problem is that bosses and the player are in 2 distinct realities from each other. my attacks have weight and have to be measured, while the boss swings a 10ton sword around the stage. there is an excellent video by second wind comparing the use of i-frames by both Monhun and ER and the problems the abuse of i-frames brought on the design of ER. in the end we are rapidly approaching a point where this games become rhythm heaven.

[@IzABub]

The feelof winning was fucking worth to go from blind build hopping rage to go back to your first one and cheer with victory. The first side boss in the dlc reminded me of that

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Yeah, the DLC reminded me of a time when I had to try 30 times to beat Godrick. I was pissed, but when I learned, oh boy. Best feeling ever.

[@ThatKid7718]

This ^

[@AreEia]

After not understanding why people liked FromSoft games, I got dragged into the hype of ER and bought it at launch. Played trough the game and had an absolute blast, cheesed some bosses, over lvl'd on others, used spirits a lot :p I then bought DS3, Sekiro, AC6 and finally DS Remastered. I've now beat DS3 once, still not finished Sekiro or DS nor fully completed AC6. But I will ;) Thing is, I really have come to love these games. So much so that I have about 6-7 different characters in ER, becuase there are so many cool builds I want to make. As I really like the concept of creating specific RP builds centered around certain spells/elements or weapons. Playing trough the DLC now with my main and loving it. Even recently made a Gutz strength build that I am also enjoying a lot. And no game gives me the same kind of "nervous exploration" as these games do :) Now I am definitly not a great Soulslike player, but I am getting better with each character, each playtrough, and enjoying these games sooo damn much! :)

[@davidburnett5049]

Do try DS2. Its possibly the best for co op.

[@DasGewkmiXX]

Fantastic video! Wish I had seen this around Elden Rings initial release as I had a mixed time with it due to basically all reasons in the video lol. My second playthrough and with the dlc was waaaay more enjoyable due to me realizing what the actual problem was with these games: my own ego

[@nobodyimportant4778]

My problem with this game is that time spent in failure IS time wasted. Like actual real life time? It's sort of the same effect you see in a lot of horror games. Monster kills you instantly and you get bored of it pretty quick. Keep the player in the driver's seat for a long time with a monster and it stays scary longer. Have it slam on a door, pursue just fast enough the player can stay out of its grasp but not outrun it. Have it hit them and knock them down to 1hp and keep chasing for the second hit. Because the chases stay scary, but when the loading screens and walkbacks rack up, the player's mind starts to figure out that while it can get better at dealing with the monster, nothing it does can make the wait less annoying, or keep them in a fun tense situation longer if the developers don't allow it. So from the top: Enemy does an attack a player doesn't know to avoid- and only does it at the end of the combo because the player pressed a button. Ok. That's not inherently a bad thing... But now you have a little grace window afterward during which the player was supposed to be communicated to and learn a lesson. A lot of stealth games deal with this by switching the player from an advantageous position to a disadvantageous one they have to get out of. Being seen. Pursued. It's not "stealth but now being seen instantly kills you". It's different gameplay that has to be treated differently and gives you a more limited toolkit. Sekiro accomplishes this with the posture meter and revive replenishing. Bloodborne handles it with rally healing. Elden ring handles this by not handling it. You gamble more on whether doing what has been communicated to you as the right way to stay alive is correct or if you need to die x more times before you're allowed to know what that is. Learning opportunities, whether they're relevant to the player's fault or not, are staggered between enormous stretches of time that funnel the player into the game's weakest gameplay. In bloodborne or sekiro you're allowed to have fun *while* in the hot seat and losing. You fight for your right to remain in the tense state where you're supposed to learn. In dark souls you use distancing and observe. In elden ring, you're allowed to have fun *after* you learn to exploit the ai through watching youtube videos the game handed off the responsibility of teaching to, or after drawing aggro with mimic/other players enough times. The input read is just an easy patsy. Maybe i'm different but the fun isn't in knowing a boss perfectly and no-hitting them. That's not fun. The fun is while freaking out and keeping it under wraps. I did orphan of kos's second phase with no blood vials left. Maria, gael, soul of cinder, dragonslayer armor, pontiff sulyvann. I like these because the solution was the nut up and learn, being aggressive without overcommitting, while also doing the video game equivalent of a bump of coke. Not to wear dung armor and either suck your thumb behind a shield (and nothing else, because this thing that's supposedly your mandatory course of action despite not being part of your base kit) or aggro drawing to hunt and pick for a cheese method.

[@agrashh]

I'm curious, why did you put the face of paulie (from sopranos) in that thumbnail image?? ^^

[@StratEdgyProductions]

KZbin has this new feature where you can test three different thumbnails to see which one was best. It's just one of three I tried out. It didn't score high in the test so it's not being used anymore.

[@agrashh]

@@StratEdgyProductionsoh ok, thanks for answering. I kinda liked it though ^^

[@VultureXV]

I agree with a lot of points. Seriously though, the way this was made is exactly why other gamers call it a "Fromsoft cult." Just remember there are legitimate grievances with some of the design and enemy choices. For example, there was a whole area dedicated to Death and Death related items and you get the WORST weapons for a death-themed character ive ever seen. Yeah, other people get to teleport with lightning or use the actual night as a weapon and the Death weapons were a reskinned weapon art with rancor skulls and a consumable that takes an obnoxious amount of reaources to make. Madness/frenzy people got it just as bad. While str/dex/int builds were living large the frenzy, frost, and death builds were asking for spare change.

[@madsonmartins619]

Sometimes I feel like all paths lead to strength/big shield builds

[@ABrassLeaf]

So after a few years of people telling me this was the best game ever....I started playing it last year. I am a huge fan of difficult games like dead cells and risk of rain 2 etc. So I figured I was in for a great time. I love losing and learning from my mistakes, it's an awesome feeling. Started up my first character, invested stats completely wrong, couldn't get past margot just before stromveil. Didn't explore, didn't get any extra gear or weapons, was only lvl 15 at the point of fighting margot. I was face tanking the bosses I did fight and not really playing the game the way it should be played (it was my first souls-like). Talked to a friend and he lol'd when I told him I didn't put points in vigor and hadn't explored. Figured, alright I'll just start over since I had only like 5 hours played at that point. So I explored, Ieveled vigor, I played a patient game and learned how the enemies would react to different actions I took. I first tried margot as well as every boss/invader prior to margot and only died 5 times over the next 10 hours. And it was a terrible feeling. This game, for me is like a puzzle game mixed with a full length quick time event. In dead cells there is a recourse for every action the enemy takes, it feels like this doesn't exist in elden ring (I hated having to just dodge or run away from an attack that couldn't be parried). That is where my complaint about the lack of a "level playing field" comes from. I found every major combat encounter to function more as me watching the AI dance around like they were in a cut scene and I was just watching them play the game waiting for my turn. At that point, I quit. I didn't review the game poorly, I just said "hey, I gave it a shot, I played it well, but man I do NOT like this style of game." I think the world-building was amazing, the animations are beautiful, but the combat was just boring (to me). I know this is totally unrelated to the DLC, but I just wanted to give a unique perspective on the genre.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

That is a great story and yeah, I get it. It's just probably not for you. Liking things is a matter of perspective and not everyone has the same perspective. I look at it as a level playing field because I know how roll through bosses with over powered skills and items but not everyone likes that kind of thing and prefer a different type of challenge and I totally get that. You did a great job explaining it and I appreciate that.

[@piotr78]

I've always seen the DS protagonist as an annoying rather persistent little guy hacking at the feet of gods. Most encounters are purposefully beyond all odds and that's why bosses just dance around while you get a whack or two in every now and then. I can totally understand not liking it, and I do think they go too far sometimes with boss movesets vs our moveset, but it also has a charm to me

[@ABrassLeaf]

@@piotr78 I tend to watch a lot of people play souls like games, but I just don't enjoy playing them myself. You're absolutely right, I feel, in assessing the intentions of how it's supposed to feel. And I honestly love the theatrics of everything, I just find the games in practice (like actually playing them) to be too passive of an experience :(.

[@Anon-cp6bm]

The biggest issue for me is that some bosses simply have AOEs that take up so much screen real estate to the point where I get flashbanged every time I enter a new phase, I mean this especially for Radahn. I don't know at this point in time how I can dodge that LED headlight level nuke he drops onto the screen every time it happens because I'm too busy letting my eyes readjust to the brightness. Sometimes an AOE will crash my game and honestly I just think there are too many AOEs with weird and wonky timings. That's not to shit on the bosses because their non-AOE movesets are fine to me and I know I can learn them, but Messmer spamming the damn snake literally every time he exits a normal combo is just obnoxious.

[@anthonykarnes6804]

Jump

[@davidburnett5049]

Thus reminds me of starsector when an ship dies. Its antimatter engine pops off in a big white screen filling pulse. It sucks. Finally added an option to turn that shit off.

[@Kekkakek]

The DLC gave me the same chub I got when I beat certain enemies in DS1, when I was still new to the Soulsgame genre and had to figure out how to play the game. Beating Divine Beast or Rellana (Moon Knight) was exhilarating for me and I imagine the same feeling the time I'll beat Messmer and Bayle hopefully soon. Elden Ring is one heck of a thing! Great video btw - Co-op run with the seamless mod when? :D

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Mod has to get updated. Once it is, though. I'm down.

[@shadowcharizard10]

turns out it was a good thing I'm a week late getting the dlc 🙏🏾

[@dmitrinikola2701]

Loving the weekly vids keep it my guy

[@44nutshot]

Maron!2 videos in one month!!

[@valipunctro]

I have to say,I'm not enjoying Souls transition into action,devil may cry shit. DS one had a couple of really difficult bosses that didn't let you breathe but because the DLC bosses where so loved, From leaned into it a bit to much,not to mention the hundred of weapons that impossible to balance and it's a crap shoot if you picked the right one. I already hated the hanging attacks and tracking.

[@dylanorr6597]

love when you get into your game design bag, even games ive never played and dont really have any interest in, just love game design talk

[@direstraits808]

Great video ^_^

[@StormCrownSr]

There is actually an issue that I have with the Ai that I swear got worse in the DLC. And it's how enemies (not the big bad bosses) handle being ganked. Think enemies that have player like poise values. They just refuse to roll away. It is embarrassing.

[@gonnabetakendownsoon3488]

About the rendering of vision for ai , isnt it more like the ai would be stuck in the matrix thinking it cant escape that world of pain and despair?

[@KiazaKadaj]

wait so if i listen to this video and believe you am i appealing to authority…. i will say tho, fromsoft games are great, i love the world, discovering things, blindly learning a boss fight or creating a new build. invading others is also extremely satisfying. base DS2 was all I could play on my college laptop and I was not involved in the community. I would find new bosses, new covenants, new armor or weapons every playthrough and fell in love with invading and covenant fights. PvP will definitely teach you how to be 5-10x better at PvE and you can carry those lessons to pretty much any Fromsoft game, once you get it, you get it. Elden Ring became extremely popular but fromsoft games are still not for everyone, sucks for those who want to join in and experience it but it may not be for them and that’s okay. patience is a virtue in this game, but there’s still ways around it, leveling still works in the dlc since fragments are % based. Ashes and summons are also available, and extremely good AoWs/Weps. I’ve always set my sign down after I beat a boss so I can help others. fromsoft gives a high like no other, it’s a beautiful tale of perseverance. The start of ER had very similar complaints about difficulty, a lot of FS games do at the start.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

"wait so if i listen to this video and believe you am i appealing to authority…." Only if you believe me without research. :) And yeah, I always hear these complaints when a game comes out, and I always try to cut the head off the snake, even though these videos don't tend to do well, just because I love my fromsoft games so much.

[@KiazaKadaj]

@@StratEdgyProductions it was a great video man. always enjoy hearing your opinion on a game I either dropped or am playing. one day japanese devs will consistently make good PC ports and that day will solve a lot of their early negative reviews. here’s to hoping.

[@clivedoe9674]

Been a while. Hope you're doing good. Are you still planning to make that follow-up video for After War?

[@qasderfful]

I feel like FromSoft games are about right on a difficulty. And I especially enjoy its AI reacting to my actions and trying to actually get me instead of just going through motions. There are a few issues tho. First, the animation reading is too mechanistic. If it reacted with randomized timings it would've felt way more natural then always the second frame. Second, it doesn't always react to my actions. Sometimes it just goes through the motions like any old-ass boss. Sekiro is the best in this regard, and even then there's a bunch of non-human bosses that just do the same moves over and over again, and once you learn them, you never get hit. For example, my first ever Headless took me 8 attempts. My second Headless took me one attempt, and so did every other one for 3 playthroughs straight. It became routine and after NG+3 I just didn't bother with them anymore. Oh, and scadoosh tree is bad because it's more important than my build which I've grown attached to. It devalues something that I hold close to my heart. And it also had no reason being there really, cause they just could have continued the star progression curve of the main game's endgame instead of introducing an almost twofold spike out of nowhere. In the base game a similar spike is kinda justified cause other areas you can explore in any order and you approach the endgeme with an assumption that you explored it all. Here tho - just why? It's a poor attempt to *force* a specific "first-time" experience onto a player who's not expecting any first-time experiences now when they've beaten the freaking Mohg. Just a poor design goal to begin with. Also honestly I'm just against stat inflations in any game ever. You know how you start Borderlands 2 with hundreds of HP and end up with tens of thousands? This renders the progression meaningless to me. You're always normalized against the environment and while numbers go up, the experience doesn't change. This is how I feel with the DLC as well.

[@jbriggs06]

I won't lie I'm not as much of a fan of how unobvious the map is vs the base game(which I thought did just right)... I just end up lost as long as I can tolerate then looking at a guide. It's different enough from the base that I'm not enjoying that aspect but I do like everything else.

[@IggyTthunders]

Me: *heard the platitudinous word salad that comprised the first 10 seconds of this video* How original.

[@Cl0ne66]

I’ll get the DLC at some-point, but Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 is too close to release, and I’m playing backlogs right now. Elden Ring is the only FromSoft game I enjoyed.

[@kartrix1]

Input reading is fine, enemy AI requires it and it allows some fun dynamic interactions between the player and the bosses. A lot of the boss combo chains can last 7-10 seconds and the only pause you get in between that is to either get one attack in or to heal once and to lose that chance can be frustrating - since it also means that you have lost your chance to do damage to the boss for at least another 14-20 seconds. Though to be fair with the DLC bosses, I felt this was only really excessive for Rellana and in one or two instances with the final boss (no spoilers). Where I think it can become a problem is when the attack they throw out is unavoidable due to the animation you are locked into and sometimes they do it a little too often. I personally tend to find unavoidable damage very annoying in games and thankfully most of these games don't really seem to have that. I think a slightly faster heal animations would address this issue people are having a bit (without major changes/overhauls to the mechanics), people would be able to heal and with a small/tight window of opportunity to react to the response from the bosses. With the exploration, it was my favourite part of the DLC - but I am curious to see how the Scadutree blessings feel on repeat playthroughs when the luster of exploration is gone. Elden Ring replays usually involve having a pre-thought out build and rushing the items, and content outside that as a means to an end (for the most part). One weak point I did feel, however, was the material rewards for exploring. The new weapons were fun (even though they should have been found with +14-17 from the start - but not important), but majority of the loot I found was just smithing stones/glovewort and cookbooks. Since you access the DLC in late game (post Mohg), the former can be bought already through Miner bell bearings and the cookbooks are not really an exciting find. They help you make consumables, while useful not as fun as finding things that make you want to experiment with different builds. This abundance of smithing stones and cook books really leads to the world feeling a little bit empty and almost as though it's filler. That's not to say the art team didn't knock it out of the park and some of the level designers with the legacy dungeons (shadow keep in particular). In terms of bosses, they are hard for sure and definitely not impossible - I did them all solo - but I will admit I just didn't end up finding the bosses in general as fun (with the exception of Mesmer who is one of my GOATs and I hated the approach they took on the last boss). I think certain approaches to boss fights were used that I just didn't find it as engaging and overall it felt like there was more style than substance for some of them. I enjoyed that I tried a variety of approaches across all the bosses, but I definitely did find the great shield to be the most boring one (tried it on the last boss). I used a combination of great shield, medium roll dodging and great epee to beat the final boss, since I did find just great shielding the whole fight to just be very boring (and I lacked all the talismans to make the stamina management possible). Dodging is an integral mechanic in these games and just feels more satisfying - the fact that the optimal way to fight some of these is to hold L1 and spam R1 is a more than a little disappointing and unfun imo, so I don't blame people from refraining to do it - though I do blame people a bit if they don't try to change up their tactics/approach at all. I went from spamming Giant's Hunt with naked great sword on Rellana to light roll estoc on Mesmer and I felt like I really catered my approach depending on the boss. But, the camera is one of the worst things - they have been at it for 10+ years and have done nothing to address issues with lock on + camera with big boss fights, which is bizarre since they've done a better job of it in Sekiro and some instances in Dark Souls 3. They don't need to do it for every field boss out there, but the effort for remembrance bosses should be a minimum - the unwillingness to address this after multiple years does make it a harsher negative than it might be for others. I don't know how this comment go this long, just wrote it as the points came out in the video and somehow ended up with this.

[@omegax9345]

Pretty sure i spent a least 5+ hours just exploring the new map. Only boss i really had a hard time with was the second ohase of the final boss, but I eventually soloed that

[@ogrefyregaming]

+1 for being a dual wield STR bro like my character. Im running a STR/FTH build with the golden halberd and black gargoyle halberd. At the last boss of the DLC now. It's been a great many deaths

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Yes, I thought about going great shield, but I have way too much fun bonking.

[@ogrefyregaming]

@@StratEdgyProductions it is fun to bonk haha. Although I may have swapped to a greatshield for the last boss 😅 those attacks are a bit too relentless for dual wielding.

[@LastSider]

1:16 I can relate to that so badly!

[@GhostVanguard]

Finding items to make the game easier is ideal because it allows you to can be a lower level and just race to get them. It's literally choosing your own difficulty without having to compromise on your build *and* without needing to grind. It's so perfect. Especially if they're all in areas that don't require boss fights

[@StormCrownSr]

Wait, Kai gave up? He died 1701 times in the base game only to give up?😢

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Did he give up? I thought he eventually beat the last boss? www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1domaps/kai_finally_feats_the_elden_ring_dlc_after_99/

[@StormCrownSr]

@@StratEdgyProductions well your video seemed to imply him giving up. I don't watch the guy. I just like his tenacity.

[@LayDownAndRot]

Not really related, but one thing I realized during my DLC run is that parrying isn't "expert mode" in Elden Ring, it's Easy Mode. It's way easier to parry enemies like knights than go toe to toe with them with rolls and attacks. So, if you want to really challenge yourself *don't* parry.

[@HuMaNise34]

My stubborness with my playstyle is that I want to beat a given boss with the build that I currently have without changing the level allocations because I want to see if a given build will be able to beat base game or dlc without the need of summons (kinda like the souls games of old). For me the build fails if the boss obliges me to completely change my build in such a way that level allocation changes significantly, e.g, from strength build to arcane build. Ofc I can make the game easy for myself by switching builds on the fly for each given boss encounter and spam spirit ashes but I am stubborn that way. Edit: I just wanted to feel the satisfaction I felt when beating the odds solo which made me love sekiro and dark souls 3.

[@jmarvins]

many people are succeeding at what you are saying without changing their builds - the point of the fragment items system is so that more builds will work and be able to progress without changing!

[@GangsterFrankensteinComputer]

You don't really need to change your build/respec. Just pick up a nice variety of items and weapons. If the enemy is weak to holy, just use a weapon that does holy damage. If the enemy is doing fire attacks, equip the talisman that reduces all fire damage by ⅕. Equip a frost spell instead of a lightning one etc.

[@evanpetelle5669]

Kai wearing a hospitaller costume in a red room full of ridiculous props makes me happy to be 33

[@ilejovcevski79]

Amen brother. I can't help but wonder who's complaining about difficulty in a Souls Game. Game critics? Or people who try to breeze through the content without ever having mastered the original game to begin with? If the latter, by the gods people, are you telling me your first foray into the Shadow Lands is any more difficult then the first excursion into Storm Vail? I don't buy that. In my case at least, while i find that the enemies are hitting hard, and are certainly more aggressive then they were in the original game, both that game and Sekiro (the only 2 From Soft games i have ever really played through) have prepared me and provided me with enough tools to tackle anything the Shadow of the Erdtree has thrown at me by this moment in time. So.... yeah....

[@mareczek00713]

I was proud of Asmongold seeing him endure and persevere, judging game as requiring more defensive approach for him and turning from a twig to the wall, this is what people mean saying GIT GUD - keep trying until you become more skilled or come up with a different approach. Plus it brings a tear to my eye everytime I see a new wall, I love carrying barndoor sized shields since Monster Hunter back on PS2.

[@louisms]

You make a lot of great points. As a jaded old man gamer i appreciate them. I have not bought the dlc yet because my original playthrough was gone and I had to do a new one. No walkthroughs, no level grinding, no meta game item farming MMO mentality bullshit.

[@Connordaboss45]

I think Bayle broke something in me. I just don't think casters are meant to beat it. After attempt 50 I just changed my build to a shield and rotted him til he died cowering behind my shield. Don't think I'll be doing that boss again. Lol

[@StratEdgyProductions]

I haven't found him yet, but I'm a bonk build and every boss fight has been a nail biter for this build. So I'm sure I'll be raging out when I meet him, only to be relieved when he dies. Gotta find his ass though.

[@piotr78]

There is a weapon that's very good to use against him. Let's say it's like a storm caller but ever so slightly less in your face about it

[@revolversnake126]

i personally can just say that i hate that the focus more and more on action combat and less on the more slow and methodical combat of des, ds1 and 2. and the dlc was probably the breaking point for me. i enjoy the exploration and level design but the only boss i enjoyed was the band of the hawk encounter with your two bros helping you out.

[@Guitar-Dog]

I used the map like that in the base game but… I’d turn the game off for a week and have no idea what the markers were for

[@StratEdgyProductions]

I think maps like this need to add a note system, so you can type yourself notes. I've always wanted this in these big ass games.

[@trainee5471]

I think the ML/AI-powered vision is a worthy pursuit. Even if the end result is the same - NPCs making the same decision and killing you all the same - there'll be an emergent perception of it being a more fair outcome. You were not killed because the NPC read your coordinates and animation state from RAM - you were killed because the NPC "saw" you performing that animation. 1/16 of the usual screen resolution, and with most of the FX disabled, and with more rendered objects culled, and at a lower framerate (like 10 fps maybe) would be more than enough for the AI to make an informed decision on how it should react to the player's actions, so it is very much doable, as far as the emulation of "vision" goes. I do agree that doing the ML/AI analysis of those images might be not as feasible yet

[@StratEdgyProductions]

I mean, there's a form of that for stealth games where the ai interprets how many pixels of a character is in the dark to determine if they "see" them, but it's slow as shit, and hamstrings level design. I wanted to do it in a game I was designing but I was convinced otherwise.

[@tairyu2574]

I consider some of these bosses to be like Aku from Samurai Jack. There is a Magic sword, a weapon/item/tactic, that works really well and anything else won’t. I just need to find the right Magic sword.

[@TheRabbitsHole]

I legit am having a better time now that i've figured out how the systems actually work. I thought I was just terrible at it- turns out that "do whatever you want including with your levels" isn't *really* gonna get ya anywhere. That having been said- I'm also probably not the target audience for this, as it's still a bit too hard for me to be 100% enjoyable.

[@Sablus]

People forgetting about the RPG part of the game and how important stat and gear allocation is while all the CRPG folk pull out their hair at them.

[@Gungrave123]

Funny how all the things you claim "you can't do in the DLC" we can do in the DLC. 1-2 shotting bosses by pre-buffing, crushing all bosses with broken builds, etc.

[@Windrider784]

The input reading cheap heal punish thing was really only an undeniable problem once in all of Soulsborne games, and that was Isshin's last phase in Sekiro. Dude suddenly leaps across the map to interrupt your heal.

[@t2av159]

The map in the dlc is bad. It doesnt account for multiple layers

[@danielcalabrese5769]

As far the reviews go I saw a state that said a big percentage of the negative reviews are from China and they are complaining about the little blue bear which is the anti cheat but I'm not for how true that is just like anything online. I agree with you completely about everything else you said and as I play on xbox I don't have any problems with performance. Exploration is the best part of elden ring to me the older games I liked the exploration but it wasn't like elden ring because they are not open world games, my first playthrough of elden ring made me feel like I think I felt as a kid that amazed and curious and hungry to search every inch if the map to make sure I kill every single enemy in the whole game at least once. While the dlc isn't giving me that same feel as intensely it is still a feeling that is great and when I jump in the game it's hard to turn it off.

[@jgmaurer31]

I'm basically a souls newbie. Never played demon or dark souls or it's sequels. It was a series that just passed me by. There was no real reason. I grew up back in the days of the NES (beat battletoads legit, doubt I could still do it) so I'm not unused to difficulty. I've never really had a problem with elden ring and I'm not really having difficulty the DLC. Some days I think people just don't know what difficulty really is. I think my biggest (and really only) problem with the dlc is that I was hoping the story would take a different story and not feel like I'm reading Miyazaki's berserk fanfiction.* *Ok, that's a little cruel, but SPOILER basically being Griffith wasn't what I wanted.

[@dylstarling8649]

Reminds me of when I was playing Monster hunter 4u on 3ds years ago, I wanted to get the Yian Garuga armour because it came with some nice skills and was quare decent for high rank too. I think my first attempt put me off, I had a pretty good armour set that carried me through low rank and past the few high rank quests before this one but it would take more than bulky armour to get me past this and nothing was going to prepare me for the torment I was about to go through. I wasn't suffering as much with the other monsters of this rank but I felt like the edge I was getting from my current armour set wasn't enough anymore and the Yian Garuga set was enticing. I attempted the quest again, failed a few more times but was starting to realise what made Yian Garuga harder, I'm not sure how true this is but from my experience it seemed like as the fight went on Garuga would mix up its actions in response to how I would exploit its openings, I might be underselling Monster Hunter here, it isn't that hard of a game tbf, but normally the difficulty of a monster fight comes from not knowing it's behaviour, there's also environmental factors, some monsters are designed to punish you for relying on specific tactics and of course there's some jank but typically when you've fought a monster enough you know it's openings and have probably learned some exploits too. There's seemingly no exploits for Garuga, at least not lasting ones, applying what I learned from most other monsters I would wait for openings and try get in my few hits, thinking I found my exploit I would run that a few times, but eventually it would get too difficult to time, initially I assumed it was the speed up it gets in rage mode reducing my window of opportunity but after carting a few times during individual quest attempts I noticed it being out of rage mode didn't effect this, Garuga simply wouldn't allow me to exploit that moment of weakness anymore. Of course between attempts of the quest it's a new Garuga so it's behaviour resets giving me a chance to get a feel for it's attacks, some of them are plain tricky on their own like I don't know about anyone else but I found when it fly dashes at you I found the best way to avoid it was to roll into the attack instead of away. I found that you had to embrace the chaos of it, this thing will erratically chain it's attacks to make sure you can't rely on the same openings twice, I think I got most of my hits in when it was exhausted and slowed down so you just take what you can get there. I did beat it afterwards and because it's monster hunter I probably hunted 10 or 20 more to get all the parts I needed for the armour. It never got easier, it was the same hell over and over but it probably made me a better player because of it, I don't even think the Garuga armour was that much of a boost but I suppose I got that edge I needed in the end.

[@pleochronic3028]

my problem with Elden Ring as a whole is pretty simple, it doesn't support its own systems well and its boring as a result. Ultra Great weapons, for example, pretty much demand the iron flesh equivalent in order to create new openings vs simply waiting for allotted ones, and that has been the case since Bloodborne, though Bloodborne has the best and most applicable parry in the series largely ameliorating that problem. In Elden Ring, the iron perfume takes up just enough time that waiting for an animation often means eating a swing anyway due to enemy stingers being ubiquitous. Some bosses leave room for cheeky jumping attacks during their strings like hoarah loux in the base game, but the dlc is largely devoid of that, So you just end up watching the boss basically larping at you until its your turn to smack them. Elden Ring is theoretically the best playing souls game, but it hates when you use its systems, either nerfing them in their means of acquisition, making them tedious to access in combat, or carefully balancing fights with them in mind, reducing the amount of gameplay approaches inadvertently. It only serves to flatten gameplay depth for me, rather then deepen it. In this way the jank of DeS and Das was largely a boon to me, you could fuck around a whole bunch of ways, with the peak of that being builds like ds2 heavenly thunder with gowers ring to defensively spin as you shock people to death. The game speed and enemy aggression doesn't really let you experiment in the same way as the others, despite theoretically having the most options like, ever in a souls game. an example from the base game: I once tried to fight the double crucible knight encounter with rot and summons after syncing them, so i could fuck around with a poise break gimmick build with flame of the red manes, but the rot damage and buildup from its respective weapons and pots is so finely tuned that it was way more efficient just to hit them to death with a weapon when they synced up rather than waste time applying anything or attempting to repeatedly stun one as my summon aggros the other, which would be a fun and creative response to a duo fight. It is also notable that finding the opening for the summon took enough time that it was more practical just to fight them, invalidating another level of strategy and variable approaches, and the joint aggro against the summon meant there wasn't even enough time to apply ailments and stun. it is often more rewarding not to bother with extra systems and options, which does not feel rewarding or like healthy game design to me.

[@pleochronic3028]

like, a sleep build with st. trina's sword is theoretically really good for letting you use longer spells and incantations, but the build up time required even with the weapon art and pots and its poor split scaling means its way better to just use mid tier spells until a poise or stance break instead, utterly invalidating an intended use case. The alternative, running ashes with bleed or ailments, is still better served by just using a frost weapon to debuff enemies whilst dealing more damage (and the split scaling means that THAT is still worse than just going pure occult and bleed with heavy hitting summons, so on and so forth). The game design works on like a weird series of trickledown mechanics where it absolutely loathes abstraction and demands immediate value. instead of rewarding cumulative effects more over time after the sacrifice of a slow and risky start to an encounter, they are punished over time and require excessive commitment. like iirc double greathammer and repeatedly jumping r1 is still like, the numerically safest build because of the poise damage and fast recovery.

[@pleochronic3028]

defense stacking is probably the easiest opening creation, but that requires little skill beyond being able to 2 hand and weapon art quickly and in the correct order. its exceptionally fucked for the game design that the optimal creative play is simply standing and eating hits after stacking mmo style character buffs. i do enjoy that equip load has more utility in that sense now, though, but its a bit nuts that its often just better rewarded than actual lateral thought and play, which in its own right is often accounted for in the design and excruciatingly limited and worse than just hitting enemies. The most fun I've probably had in the game is golden vow double great stars, just eating through encounters. deeply unfortunate.

[@jakacresnar5855]

First off I want to preface this by saying exploration is my favourite part of any RPG, FromSoft or not. It was my favourite part of Elden Ring too. I like poking my nose everywhere and the game rewarded you for it massively. However, I think they shit the bed with the way they implemented Scadutree Fragments, and there are two reasons. First, they are very inconsistently distributed, as in, you can scour for hours and find maybe one, and then you find 4 at once in 20 minutes just by going somewhere else. What, I was exploring the "wrong part of the map"? There shouldn't be a "wrong part of the map" when it comes to progression. The base game did this well, all the major areas, Limgrave, Liurnia, Altus etc. had 5-6 Golden Seeds, for example. The base game also combatted this by having Sacred Tears in churches and that was wonderful because you could do the map thing you mentioned since churches were visible on the map. Then it was fun - find new area, find map fragment, scour map, find church, find 10 other cool things on the way, etc. Here, it's a bit all over the place. Crosses, corpses, mobs, chests. You can't "go look for them" (more on why this is a problem later). Revered Ashes are more consistent but the headless trolls don't show on the map like churches do. Second, you should never, EVER place items like this in the exact number needed to max out. Sacred Tears were one to one, yeah, but again, they were 100% consistent in placement, while Golden Seeds were not. No problem, that does encourage exploration, but it took 30 seeds to max the flask and the game provided 45 IIRC. Here, if you miss one, the further you get into the game, the worse it gets. It stops being exploration, it starts being a wild goose chase. Can't beat a boss with Shadow Blessing 12? Okay, you've collected 26 fragments, you can't progress to a new area because you're too weak, so now you have to go back to an area you've already painstakingly combed through just to up your stats. It feels forced.

[@dreaddjinn9623]

Alright Sun tzu. For real tho great vid, some folks needed to hear this. me, im some folks lol, back to grinding

[@StratEdgyProductions]

*cracks whip* get back in the mine!

[@Nipah.Auauau]

There's a lot of obvious issues in this video from an accuracy and critique perspective but I don't want to write a novel so I'll just address something fairly specific towards the beginning about input reading. I've seen the weird "input reading is literally the only way to program enemy AI" argument copy and pasted by the pro-ER crowd a few times and it's just wrong. Even in a lot of Souls games there are enemy behaviors that are controlled by how far the player is to them. I could also include stuff like the player's "stance" (if they're crouching, in the air, etc.) but that might come off as splitting hairs with input. One obvious way to program enemy AI is to just have it do its own thing regardless of the player, like goombas in Mario. Another option is doing things depending on what the player has already done to them. In God Hand enemies will start blocking if they get hit too many times, if you hit them enough while they're blocking they'll stun you with a counter. Neither of these moves depend on reading the player's inputs but instead depend on what the player has recently done to them. Also I get you were being disingenuous but just in case you actually don't know, the "seeing" AI argument generally refers to having the AI react to inputs in a realistic way. I.E. when chugging a flask, the enemy doesn't react when the button is pressed (before the animation starts) but during the animation when the flask is clearly visible to the enemy. Rather than some kind of convoluted human sight replication. The video starts out aggressive but chills out a bit in the second half, doing a second take after collecting all of your thoughts might've made for a better video.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

"I've seen the weird "input reading is literally the only way to program enemy AI" argument copy and pasted by the pro-ER crowd a few times and it's just wrong. " Well, I don't know about them, but I actually make games, and have designed AI before, and I know how they work. So when someone like that tells you, it's the way we do things. You can choose to not believe them, that's fine, but if you then don't go do research and find out how it actually works, well, that's just arguing from a place of ignorance. "Even in a lot of Souls games there are enemy behaviors that are controlled by how far the player is to them." Yes, the player moves closer, enemy does a thing. The input is the player's distance, and the AI is constantly reading it from memory (ram). The AI is also programmed to do something different if the player stops closing distance, and attacks. That is also input reading. "I could also include stuff like the player's "stance" (if they're crouching, in the air, etc.) but that might come off as splitting hairs with input. " It is. It is input reading as well. "One obvious way to program enemy AI is to just have it do its own thing regardless of the player, like goombas in Mario." Are you suggesting something like that for a Fromsoft game? *puzzled look* " Another option is doing things depending on what the player has already done to them." You think that Elden Ring doesn't already do that? Okay, pop quiz. How would an AI punish the player for healing without some form of "event", "animation" or "input" reading which each have the EXACT same results? How would you design it. "In God Hand enemies will start blocking if they get hit too many times, if you hit them enough while they're blocking they'll stun you with a counter. " And how do they DETERMINE when to block and counter you. They counter you by reading your input and timing the counter correctly. Without input reading, the AI would just sit there, randomly spamming counter. "Neither of these moves depend on reading the player's inputs" I don't think you know how input/output works. "I.E. when chugging a flask, the enemy doesn't react when the button is pressed" I addressed all of this. That would require an insane amount of rendering to do "visually". If you are talking about reacting on the FRAME of animation that the flask appears, okay, fine, but if Miyazaki's intention was to punish you more often for chugging, how does he do that without doing it the way they are doing it? What you are saying is, I don't like your design, Miyazaki, and it would be better if it were x. Let's just forget how it sounds to have, random guy on youtube tell professional how to do things, the bigger problem is, what it sounds like to everyone else is: "I don't want to adapt to this new system. I just wanna keep doing what I've already done." It sounds like to us, that you like the design changed because you don't want to adapt. If you don't want to believe what I said in the video, fine. I thought it was a well thought out argument, you don't. Sounds good. *firm handshakes* "The video starts out aggressive but chills out a bit in the second half," How was it aggressive? You mean the joke I start with? If so, I'm sorry the joke offended you. But don't worry, it's already on parole and wearing an ankle bracelet. It can't hurt you anymore. "doing a second take after collecting all of your thoughts might've made for a better video." You start out your comment by telling me how AI is designed, and you end your comment by telling me how to make a video. Do you have any experience in any of these things? Are you qualified to give that advice? Do you see how this works? I'm not asking you to appeal to authority, I'm asking you to THINK about what it is you are doing, right now. It's akin to telling a surgeon how to best suture a wound because you've watched a lot of Gray's Anatomy.

[@Nipah.Auauau]

@@StratEdgyProductions So you extend the definition of "input" to mean literally anything that could conceivably happen in a video game...? Of course you can only program AI with "input reading" when input reading includes starting the game and leaving to get a drink, and a random enemy eventually attacks you after it aimlessly wanders the starting area for 10 minutes. Except you didn't answer goomba example and just dismissed it. Using an argument from authority like "I make video games so I know what I'm talking about and YOU don't" isn't doing you any favors. You shouldn't need to explicitly tell someone you're knowledgeable in order to support your argument. The argument itself should stand on its own. For what it's worth, I make video games too. "And how do they DETERMINE when to block and counter you" They make the block -> counter decision based on when they get hit, not on input entered. If you conflate input so much you see no difference between "the enemy reacted because I pressed the attack button" and "the enemy reacted because they were hit" that would go a long way in explaining why you don't seem to understand the core argument of the people you critiqued in your video. "That would require an insane amount of rendering to do "visually"." It's comments like this that really make me doubt your claimed experience. If you've actually made games before why is your first assumption for implementing something like this some kind of visual scan that requires an insane amount of rendering? Here is the first implementation method that popped in my head: - While an enemy is aggroed to the player it listens for any broadcasts the player sends. - The chug animation has a specific frame that sends a "Player is chugging" broadcast. Maybe in the middle of the animation when the bottle is clearly visible. - When enemy receives "player is chugging" broadcast: freakout There, done. If you want the enemy to still punish chugging as much as before, just give it a faster ranged/lunge reaction attack to compensate. "random guy on youtube tell professional how to do things" "Do you have any experience in any of these things? Are you qualified to give that advice? Do you see how this works?" "It's akin to telling a surgeon how to best suture a wound because you've watched a lot of Gray's Anatomy." I'll admit, I don't have any experience when it comes to making long form youtube videos, and I'm under no impression that making them is a simple task by any stretch of the imagination. However, when it comes to opinions and critique that doesn't matter. Even if I had zero game dev experience having an opinion like "this feels frustrating because of X" would be no less legitimate or valuable. Imagine your same argument but for movies: a movie comes out and a large chunk of the people who watch it say that the jokes weren't funny. "Oh? Do YOU make movies? Are YOU a comedian? Do you even know what's involved in crafting a joke?". Or for cooking: " I'm no chef but this food is way too salty." "Oh, you don't even cook? How do you even know what too salty is then?". Also, the major difference between your surgeon analogy and video game opinions is that video games are subjective media. Any change could make the game simultaneously better or worse for different kinds of people. Surgery is a medical procedure. Changing something in the procedure could get someone killed. It's not the most apt comparison.

[@Silenthero66]

14:29 Exactly this. I was this guy for too long. This DLC is finally hard enough to make me feel like I have to grow again has a gamer, as a person. I. Love. It. Fromsoftware are GOATED. Miyazaki deserves his admiration. In 30 years this will still be considered one of the greatest games ever made.

[@Drodz1030]

BUT BUT BUT BUT IF I USE DEFENSE TALISMANS I DONT GET TO USE MAX DAMAGE TALISMANS. The defense crystal tear is actually crazy good it actually adds like three extra hits to my character.

[@LetsPlayKroni]

I was getting two shot and was kinda bitching about it until i changed up my fashionsouls set to something with some more girth to get my resistances up to 80%. But after that ive only been having fun. I had to change up ny entire playstyle for the last boss but it was a cool fight, took me probably 20+ tries vs the 3 or 4 tries for every other boss. Overall pretty good dlc and ive been spending my time now helping other players and rolling around the idea of going into NG+2 because i did it all on NG+

[@LainKaplan]

Dakkon quote spotted!

[@ObiJuanKenob]

So similar to the curious case of dark souls 2, just on a bigger scale. Been playing since Demons Souls and I'm 5/7 when it comes to the games they put out. In it for the level design and how different items and playstyles are supported in that level as you progress it. I will go out of my way to equip the weapon I just found and see if it has value in the level moving forward and how it synergies with the other things you find. Sadly this is not what this game tries to do and it's probably a coincidence that this even happens in their other titles. This is genuinely the part that I care most about their games. I'm also not a believer in the reading of the inputs, but hey game sells pretty good with it so what do I know, didn't appreciate it when it happened in their other titles as well; it's just more prominent in this game since it leans so hard into the how do we make this harder, instead of making it more interesting spectrum. Legacy Dungeons did not deliver for me, the scope and grandure of the open world genre was more important and it's pretty obvious why, that's what really sells at a mainstream level. Just wished it had something to offer me without me having to mod it. Also ps4 version is mad rough.

[@justinelevin2317]

Humans in pvp mostly predict what you are going to do, where they can be right or wrong… Plus the problem i have with the input reading is that its too obvious compared to previous games.

[@TheHeartThatRunsCold]

If you are someone who doesn't want to resort to magic, summons or defensive playstyles, just pick up some backhand blades. Safe moveset, good damage, gets access to one of the best ashes of war in the game. Embrace the manhood gene.

[@argondrolf785]

I still feel like increasing the damage dealt is the laziest way to increase difficulty and this is something I noticed in ds3 as well. I can appreciate my fights with artorias, the fume knight and sir alone because they were aggressive and unpredictable, not because they hit like a truck.

[@btchiaintkidding7837]

even at level 1 challenge runs, endgame bosses like Nameless King cant one shot you at level 1 base HP. so i dunno tf you talking about. of course , if you get hit by uktra giga charge attack of the bosses they would still hurt a lot. everyone in DS3 (including the player) is kinda damage sponge compared to DS1/DeS . honestly apart from Sister Friede or Midir not a single boss can two shot you in ds3 what are you even on?

[@kishinasura1989]

They also hit like a truck 😂

[@KNGDDDE]

Bro take fume off that list lol, bro has a fire ERASER lol

[@KNGDDDE]

​@@btchiaintkidding7837gee it's almost like not being 2 hits from death the whole time makes the game more fun. Read wat he said, FUN. It makes the game more fun... Which is elden rings problem, they can no longer think of ways to make things challenging while being fun... which us why ur finally boss is a 50ft tall Demigod wit two 20ft ugs, magic, and AOE's. Did I mention bro can fly? 💀💀💀💀😂😂😂 so much fun

[@SM-nz9ff]

@@KNGDDDE Dunno wtf you guys are doing but I have 82% damage reduction I'm not getting 2, 3, or 4 shotted. Its called Dragoncrest Shield Talisman, Crab Meat, Golden Vow, Uplifting Aromatic, Opaline Tear, and so on and so on. If you refuse to use the mechanics in the game your argument is invalid and isn't going to be listened to and for good reason. There is also the Ritual Shield Talisman which itself would stop a 2 shot. You just suck at the game fr fr. Pay attention to what the game has or continue to lose quite frankly Also stop using Sore Seals and Scorpion Talismans they completely negate the Scadu Tree Fragment buffs and take your defenses negative. literally any negative to defense is laughably unintelligent in the DLC. No offensive Talismans are better than the defensive ones and the Fragment offensive buffs out do those anyway and give more than enough offensive bonuses alone. total defense is the way to go, glass cannons getting shattered then complain