Carnage - Everything You Need To Know About Supermang!

[@mollyandspike2852]

You've fast become my favourite KZbin presenter

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Thank you

[@MindieJ]

haha thanks for the mention Scotty, yep my budget has been blown way out and your pretty spot on with the LS costs ect, we will definitely have a friendly race soon :)

[@lsgemini7686]

You already won the show and shine VN shootout

[@antonyfrost2541]

Them sounds like racing words ! Y'all bin called out.

[@ashgray8208]

This looks like a good challenge

[@Frontman936]

The red VN is a Berlina so it has to be better

[@raelock8145]

Mindiej and carnage lets see some content between a ls vn and a l67vn do a feature of both vns together

[@amounifnd]

Cant believe you had to explain why its called Supermang. Too many haters. This has been one of the best most honest engine build series and the host has done an amazing job. Best to ignore the trolls. LS swaps are getting pretty boring now and everyone does the same thing over and over. Keep up the good work. The L67 is a frustrating blow to mod as you reach its limits real quick. Ugrade an ecotec, or swap the L67 for a Whipple.

[@chappo4845]

Thanks for the summary Doc!

[@wilwilson8146]

my theory: a seagull has been sucked into the intake leading to less boost... should be able to lure him out with a hot chip 👍

[@richardholdener1727]

Thnx for the shout out!

[@justin3131ify]

I wondered if you would be watching any Aussie stuff 😉

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Thanks Richard, thanks for watching

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Got any thoughts on our situation?

[@rxcosmo76]

Nice Work Scotty. Well explained and layed out.

[@nigeldyer44]

Awesome info Scotty appreciate it

[@finlay230]

love the blower route !! good on ya

[@osi9567]

Everyone needs to subscribe MindieJ, absolute legend and awesome channel!

[@vincekara9446]

I'm a Ford man but a truly love Holdens too. I can remember back in teens I had a VK Calais. That was a really nice car! Keep up the great vids! Cheers

[@79series]

Great details mate.

[@danielbrown7077]

This is a tricky one! Gale Banks (Banks performance) has awesome content about intake temps and air temp density's to HP Loss. well worth a look! and to me is the BEST on YT... keep up the awesome work!

[@steverepko5499]

Loving all the mangs 🤣🤣

[@markusftw5138]

Maing-Question? That one killed me.

[@martyandbrookeobryan4942]

Brus, 15k is fuck all!! What a beast! Can’t wait to meet you Cobba. Red Centre Nats I hope 🤞

[@adrianvadeiso2145]

Love to see the comparison with mindieJ vn with the Ls1 would be interesting to see the difference

[@aaronpurcell6645]

Could be the bypass valve if you still have it on

[@adamwarner4590]

Great episode thanks

[@FuManchu5ltr]

Scotty’n’tuned in the thumbnail.

[@brentonevans5643]

The blower elbow and inlet are a massive restriction. Perhaps with the 2.55" pulley on it cant get enough air into the blower? Perhaps try porting the blower elbow or contacting brushworks for one of theirs and adding a bigger throttle body?

[@brentonevans5643]

Also the barrel cooler is going to be restrictive as well. Needs a bigger intercooler

[@finnycypress9959]

Would love to see a collab with MindieJ

[@MindieJ]

damn straight

[@BeeskneesBen]

I'm in NZ with a L67 VS Calais running a smaller XP or Stage 2 cam, minor head work, Ported Gen V blower with 85mm intake, 3.2" or 81mm blower pulley, AEM water/meth goes good. My 2c would be a modified blower and proper W2A setup for Supermang for us veiwers or go the turbo.. or do a twin charged Scotty I dare ya

[@ckrahe3605]

Gotta factor in the cost of a new whiteboard marker to the budget too 🤣

[@danielveldman4690]

sounds like you need to consult with baz from brushworx!!

[@seedy-TV]

💜

[@aidenmartin61]

Have you considered compound charging it with the supercharger still in place..? Run turbo back up and through the charger

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Considered it

[@honestpat7789]

Professor Scotty of the prestigious Dunlop KT26 University

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Love that, might use it

[@GlennosMetals]

Do.v8 supercars do mass burnouts before they start

[@grantlister]

Hey Scotty, Maybe you could try a RAM Air Induction first, If it’s starving for air? (Even If you put a larger belt drive on later, it won’t hurt! 😂) Much enjoyed the show & from memory Cooper Bogetti approximated USD$20k for his LS to SN Mustang conversion. Kia Kaha, Grant from NZ.

[@andyjames2082]

So much hoohaa, the "Berlina " has been very entertaining 👍

[@MAMBOYS-mv2te]

Because it goes MANG MANG MANG

[@adamloader9534]

Excited for more call outs 😛 We are looking forward to the race between these two modified VN’s

[@ESISTTIGER]

Keep the 15's but instead of 205/65/r15 change em to 225/55/r15 smaller diameter tire will reduce top speed a small bit in each gear but will increase acceleration a noticeable amount Also means less load on the engine

[@SF-racing1]

Scotty chuck a nice little stall convertor in the box nice 3000 rpm one through dominator Melbourne will drop your 60ft more and go harder all my autos run stallys and drop time off at the drags cheers

[@danielstorer1826]

Cornfed boost in Qld has got some crazy horsepower out of his VT something like 800+ give that guy a watch

[@5lcalais1]

Check out jetv6 ,he's gone 1180 👌 on a 4.2 stroker though, corn fed still stock crank n capacity, it's actually been in the 900s 👌

[@danielstorer1826]

@@5lcalais1 I have seen that car is off

[@5lcalais1]

@@danielstorer1826 yeah it's pretty wild, dream setup on the engine 👌 wanna build a similar one but with a g42 1450 turbo hanging off it and go hunting for low 8s 👌🤣

[@chriscarey3625]

Scottie, remember the fundamentals, an engine is simply a pump. Pre intercooled the blower was able to maintain a constant 10 psi but as soon as you put tubing and inter cooler the blower couldn't provide the 10 psi right through the rev range, my thinking is it has a restricted inlet system to the blower. And don't forget cool air is more dense than hot air and takes less energy to compress than hot air, this may explain the variation in boost pressure with a restricted inlet system. Mate a big fat throttle body, massive ducting, huge big fat front mount intercooler with a tiny pulley and send it 😁

[@westaircompressors]

Great episode, nailed this one Scotty. Awesome to see it broken down.

[@brendannunya77]

Great video as usual Scotty.

[@trentcrompton9527]

👍

[@boxy4973]

Scotty your the man mate

[@brentcouper1513]

Scotty might be time for some bottle fed power

[@trojansixone391]

Mace offer a cnc porting service for about $1600.00, for that they port out the LIM, the charger body and port the supercharger elbow by hand, from memory mace say this alone will drop the intake temp by about 40 deg, I'm about to do this myself just waiting on the snout upgrade from Yella Terra with a 71mm pully approx 14-15lbs boost (the factory snout apparently flexes under load with the smaller pully as you need to machine the front of the factory snout to fit the smaller pullys this machining weakens the snout)

[@Andy-pb4jg]

Sounds like larger pully and smaller piping might be the go

[@boatsandblowers6913]

When are you going to do a supercharged Barra with a capa kit

[@AaronNicoli]

I lost it at spicy cough

[@zeropaloobatheuber1572]

I’ve been building my manual L67 VS for years. I’m particularly proud of my full VX suspension (brakes, LSD, trailing arms and toe control links). Got sidetracked with a JS Vectra big block (3.2) upgrade. 👍🏻🤗

[@Brodes1983]

Intercooler effectiveness also depends on contact time: the faster the air that moves across it the shorter the contact time of the hot air to the cooling tubes and the warmer air discharge. Bigger intercooler means lower flux and cooler discharge.

[@chadlantry858]

Hey mate enjoying your videos.I was chasing some further info on Michael marks vs ss commodore turbo install under the guard.You did a write up in may 2016. Any info or pics would be appreciated if possible or who done the work. Cheers

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Check the Street Machine website

[@davidbarnsley8486]

You said about taking some weight out of the back I don’t want to be rood but I would be genuinely interested to see if you can get a smaller driver as well and loose 60 or 80 kg out of the front You know less weight equals more speed just saying and I’m no stick man myself so I’m not volunteering to drive because it still would be a weight disadvantage My only other thing I wasn’t sure about was the inter cooling pipes how big they are I did think they were too big for the size of the supercharger I’m no engineer so just guessing so in all I think you did great 👍👍

[@IJ-E36]

The Barrel is choking it badly..

[@STREETMACHINETV]

It's possible

[@IJ-E36]

I had much the same result, moved to the biggest barrel PWR made, made some more power and it flat lined again..

[@skymit5519]

I think you should do some home porting on the heads to. Would be cool to see the difference that makes.

[@sick-mate]

The spice cough 🤌

[@deppryan6846]

Have you blocked off the boost solenoid?

[@mattt83]

Is it belt slip with the smaller pulley?

[@stuli6007]

Had a similar headache with my small block HQ back in the day and the main issue was the nut holding the steering wheel!

[@burntrubber5689]

You need to add $2 to the cost for a new whiteboard marker 😉

[@Xbudmarley420x]

Very happy you shouted out Richard holdener he's a very smart man and gives numerous good dyno videos

[@chrissraceporting7055]

Port the heads intake manifold and blower out.

[@5UPRAH]

You didn't add cost of supercharger? And the snout?

[@bazspecfabrication9955]

Was donated

[@5UPRAH]

@@bazspecfabrication9955 should still be included in the build price?

[@delcowizzid]

You need to get rid if the little barrel intercooler if you work out the flow area of the tubes through it it's way smaller than your 3in pipes can flow a bigger one with enough flow area to match the cooler pipes will cool better and flow heaps more air you want air temp lower than mid 40 degrees and below the lower the better but after 45 odd degrees you are losing a lot of power

[@RKGarage]

Once you are turboed, hit me up for a friendly drag battle, Auto vs Manual turbo mangs! I'll ship my car over 👌👌👌👌 Supermang Vs Ecojet

[@kermitmotorsports6682]

Love it Scotty

[@batchmotorsport]

Need to get Jason to send you some better whiteboard markers.

[@skymit5519]

Make the inter cooler plate work and try it. Also fit a newer better supercharger

[@jasonhorvath4272]

What about all the Dyno time.$$$

[@backyard_mechanic]

I hated how much you paid for the car but I think you really nailed it in time, the prices are stupid now and you can't get one for less than you paid. Great video guys, you were spot on and had me agreeing the entire time. LS and barra are great swaps for easy power but those are getting way to expensive. The other thing people don't take into account is all the extras that go along with the swap, it is not as simple as chuck the engine in and off you go. You need trans, diff, fuel lines, computers, wiring, and so much more to get it going. A $5k engine swap can easily reach $20k plus before you even start it for the first time.

[@JossRickard]

I'm real glad you did this weird little build, not another LS or Barra swap. Commodores aren't really my thing, but this was different and interesting enough to grab and keep my attention all the way through.

[@bazspecfabrication9955]

Great explanation scotty

[@wiggstheking5419]

Hey Scotty awesome videos. I would love to see twin charger.. Turbo into the supercharger. That will make the supercharger more efficient with boost and carry the boost further through the rpm range.. Similar to richos customs au falcon.. Superchargers loose efficiency at high rpm and most of the time becomea a restriction also at high rpm and that's when the turbo should show its true colors.. You should be able use the sane setup just a turbo and manifolds

[@wiggstheking5419]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYmzhJVpm6h5npI

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

This is your journey Scotty, we're just along for the ride. Sometimes we're going to be right, sometimes we're going to be wrong. It's up to you to steer the ship where you think makes the most sense. Doesn't mean that we won't be yelling at the computer screen and saying WTF!, but ultimately this is your journey and we are the passengers along for the ride. We are going to watch regardless because it is not about how much hp you make or how fast you go. It is about being on the journey with you and being entertained. As you rightly say it is a KZbin channel and often people lose sight of that. If we wanted to watch ultimate builds where people pee in your pocket and make made up and wild claims about hp and edit out their mistakes there are oodles of them on KZbin. What makes you channel unique is that you're real, and don't need to prove anything to us only to yourself.

[@ceegee3664]

Plan B:- 1986 VL 3.0 Turbo Straight 6 Set a benchmark for a V6 VNPRT To better

[@RhysK94]

Well explained Scotty!💪 Just for reference, L67 bottom end with arp rod bolts and a cam has gone 750+ and in the 9's @140mph. Ecotec (L36) has gone 575 with only a cam, ran out of fuel line size but it would of kept going. (This is all at the wheels) If your goal is only 450 on the L67 bottom end it will smash that easily 👌 As always, welcome to hit me up for a chat or advice anytime 👌💪

[@markhoey]

Please remember tuning and dyno costs too Scotty, it’s something that always seems get overlooked when mentioning build cost but always a cost the average Joe still has to pay for when modifying. Keep on keeping on with it and look forward to when the snail goes on and you can really stretch its legs…..

[@NickHey]

Mangin'!

[@louiemoretti3533]

Would be great to see MindieJ v Scotty at the drags!

[@MindieJ]

🤝

[@STREETMACHINETV]

How long until you're ready MindieJ

[@MindieJ]

@@STREETMACHINETV just putting some run in kms on engine at the moment then tune and she’s done

[@STREETMACHINETV]

@@MindieJ awesome

[@reesekelly6158]

Have you thought about widening the intake and charger piping? My m90 is on a 304 and was also struggling to keep up with supply at high rpm, I ended up getting a 90mm throttlebody and routering out the Aly to equal around the same airflow as a 90mm throttle body, helped it keep up! I guess then the carnage problem will be all the piping to intercooler, unless you use the under charger mount one

[@ants3503]

Few less wild turkeys in the cooler might gain a 🤏 of time 😂

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Haha, maybe

[@ants3503]

@@STREETMACHINETV hydration is important tho 👍

[@XFaTeassainZz]

This series inspired me to do a l67 swapped Crewman. I was thinking about selling the car but I decided to make it a little bit interesting

[@mrcasperjensen]

That’s cool.. I love different

[@lukefox4170]

Fuk yea love crewmans

[@peterorourke733]

Does the cam have much overlap on the intake and exhaust? A cam more focused on intake side and a bit less on the exhaust with less overlap might see better boost curve.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

It's a supercharger cam

[@brushitoff503]

Love the SuperMang! It's what I wanted to build with my old VN 20 plus years ago! Good stuff Scotty!

[@MrSamlyle]

And the LS HG wagon was only 0.2 seconds quicker..

[@lukefox4170]

fit 2x gt35s first.chris gd u up

[@Doc_in_the_carpet_truck]

The L67 build is still cheaper than the Shane Warne ceramic bong I saw on ebay during the week check that out!!! Top vid Scotty always good to know the price of stuff and things 👍🍻

[@michaelb5330]

Good series Scott Enjoying your thought process and the changes Very much looking forward to seeing the turbo updates which will probably see the most gains Oh and for the tank I’ve seen others use dry ice and glycol with a smaller tank to get cooler temps Just sharing stuff Sounds like the blower is suffering from cavitation Keep up what you do Scott you keep me sane while I’m at work for the week

[@SLYDIT]

63 degrees? Yikes even with water to air you shouldn't be seeing those crazy temps

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Used to be 110

[@stinkfinger1942]

Larger pully with the current setup is the next best logical step for sure. I love Supermang but MindieJ's Vn destroys underwear 8 days a week 😏

[@MindieJ]

😂😂😂 super close in current 1/4 times at the moment

[@stinkfinger1942]

@@MindieJ Have you run the new setup? 😲 Hope the trip's treating ya well mate 🍻

[@MindieJ]

@@stinkfinger1942 nope not even tuned yet

[@stinkfinger1942]

@@MindieJ Money's on you then, Bud. More than just times for me though, that thing's just lovely, looking forward to seeing how the "corrections" perform, set of venetians and she'll be creating puddles left, right and center 🤭

[@mrcasperjensen]

Centrifugal supercharger please.. ignore I’ve said it already haha. But seriously.. Imagine the fun.. roots , centrifugal supercharger and then turbo.. Scotty likes fun… Scotty agrees with casper 😆😆😆

[@francocozzo7235]

Before you go turbo, could you adapt a larger blower to it? I picked up an Eaton M122 from a GT500 Mustang a couple years ago and landed it in Australia for less than $2250, unfortunately I sold it and later someone had used it on an AU Falcon and it returned some good results, at one point they saw over 20 PSI with it on the Falcon 4L SOHC. Also be interesting to see water/methanol injection used instead of the water to air intercooler

[@francocozzo7235]

Also just want to add I love your channel, good to see people having a real go.

[@mrcasperjensen]

I’d love to see a centrifugal supercharger instead.. before a turbo… pleaseeeee Scotty 🤣

[@gardenwaster]

I like what your thinking in regards to the pulley, you know what this means - "larger hole in the bonnet"

[@brentonk461]

For around 12grand for one of my built Engines, you could have a Single four barrel carby'd Holden 304/308 based Engine or a Small Block Chev naturally aspirated v8 combination in a factory 5.0L vn-vr will give you an 11second capable, car through a relatively quiet twin 2.5" exhaust to the rear bumper, on d.o.t tires, on 15x8rims with the stock 3.07:1 LSD borgwarner diff. No turbo, No blower, No nitrous.

[@benni727]

show minjie how a v6 is better than a ls.

[@alloutofbubblegum8165]

"Too Boldly go were no Mang has gone before"

[@sninstall]

My l67 has 83mm pulley. Seems to have a lot off the line but definitely falls over in the top end. Think the m90 just runs out of puff up high.

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

Scotty you are on the right track with your analysis, but might have the wrong conclusion. Before I go into an explanation, firstly congratulations on making the right call to look at the data. Data is bullshit proof and will tell you the truth whether you like it or not. The reason you are seeing a declining boost pressure is as you suspect an efficiency problem, but just maybe not the one you might think. As you well know as the revs increase, the engine requires proportionally more air (duhhh captain obvious - not factoring in Volumetric Efficiency changes). But as you rightly note the engine is not being supplied enough air to sustain filling the cylinders and then a constant additional 12psi of boost. BUT the problem may not be the blower. You are 100% correct in saying as boost increases so does the heat. I don't know how many time I have tried to preach that not all boost shown in the gauge PSIG (Pressure Shown In Gauge) is real boost, because expanded air will tell the gauge sensor that it has boost that isn't really there. But for some reason people have difficulty in wrapping their heads around the simple fact that hot air expands, and not all boost shown in the data logger is real boost. You may have "pressure" but not have air. So what is my theory? I think the W2A intercooler is where a large part of your flow restriction is. That is a cheap barrel cooler that was made in Chinese factory and core efficiency may not be the number 1 priority of the company that made it. You might go as far as saying they probably lack a bit of R&D when they "borrowed" the design. At best you are probably only looking at a sectional area of 100mm x 100mm of effective core area. If you compare that to say a typical 300mm x 100mm A2A intercooler, it only has 1/3 of the area to pass the air through. If you welded in a couple of sensors at both ends of the barrel piping you would be able to measure pressure drop across the cooler. I believe it is this high back pressure (pressure differential of the two) at the cooler that is causing efficiency problems at the blower (causing air to bypass the rotors and increase heat). If you think about it and use the 3" piping as the median area of flow (may not be the smallest sectional area). i.e. You have a point from which to work. 3" ID pipe has an area of 4560mm^2. If the core area is 100mm x 100mm that is 10,000mm^2, BUT you have a long aluminum core inside of the barrel so the "air" volume inside the barrel cooler may be less that half of that, so it may have a sectional area of somewhere around the 4560mm^2 of the 3" tube or even less. Now you might think well I have around the same area in the open parts of the barrel core as I do the 3" piping, but that doesn't factor in the immense drag trying to pass air across very tiny cross sectional cores. I don't know what you know about fluid dynamics, but air flows best in the centre of a round pipe, where it is least effected by the drag of the sides. The closer to the sides of the pipe the more the air slows down. The barrel cooler core is very small so the effects from the sides of the core is HUGE. To the point you may need 3 or 4 barrel coolers in parallel to flow the same amount of air without causing a lot of pressure drop. You mentioned the extra length of piping might cause a boost drop... Not really because boost doesn't work like that. Once the pipe is full, what air goes into the engine is replaced by fresh air into the pipe at the other end so the pipe will always see the same pressure. What you can get with longer pipes is a slight lag in boost response, and that is because air is elastic. Air is compressible (just like that air compressor in the corner) so when it sees a sudden increase in pressure air the air will push closer together and act like a big spring. Sorry about the long post but the first thing I would do is put sensors on the pipes to see what is going on there before making any other changes.

[@Clemohunt]

Intercooler restriction would be my guess

[@manuelstarr3602]

How would it be if you spent this amount of money on an old 186..? Cheers mate 🍺🍺

[@1toonhead]

I remember the first episode with Supermang and you brought it to compete with another KZbinr who brought a EB Falcon (same era car) and you where going to compete with it which never happened. It was also going to be budget turbo vs budget supercharger. You had the supercharger option.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

They couldn't wait, they built their car, raced it and sold it

[@rodgiecobbadventures9727]

Cost me 15,000 to get a forged ls1 built in the backyard by a mate on the cheap. 12,000 to buy a th400 then get built for 1500hp+ with transbrake, another 2500 for flex plate and billet torque converter, 3,000 for mace coilovers. Still need to get custom tailshaft, loom and few other bits and bobs to get it back on the road and dyno, hoping for 500rwhp+ n/a when i make it to the dyno but we shall see