Carnage - Everything You Need To Know About Supermang!

[@MindieJ]

haha thanks for the mention Scotty, yep my budget has been blown way out and your pretty spot on with the LS costs ect, we will definitely have a friendly race soon :)

[@lsgemini7686]

You already won the show and shine VN shootout

[@antonyfrost2541]

Them sounds like racing words ! Y'all bin called out.

[@ashgray8208]

This looks like a good challenge

[@Frontman936]

The red VN is a Berlina so it has to be better

[@raelock8145]

Mindiej and carnage lets see some content between a ls vn and a l67vn do a feature of both vns together

[@richardholdener1727]

Thnx for the shout out!

[@justin3131ify]

I wondered if you would be watching any Aussie stuff 😉

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Thanks Richard, thanks for watching

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Got any thoughts on our situation?

[@amounifnd]

Cant believe you had to explain why its called Supermang. Too many haters. This has been one of the best most honest engine build series and the host has done an amazing job. Best to ignore the trolls. LS swaps are getting pretty boring now and everyone does the same thing over and over. Keep up the good work. The L67 is a frustrating blow to mod as you reach its limits real quick. Ugrade an ecotec, or swap the L67 for a Whipple.

[@zeropaloobatheuber1572]

I’ve been building my manual L67 VS for years. I’m particularly proud of my full VX suspension (brakes, LSD, trailing arms and toe control links). Got sidetracked with a JS Vectra big block (3.2) upgrade. 👍🏻🤗

[@XFaTeassainZz]

This series inspired me to do a l67 swapped Crewman. I was thinking about selling the car but I decided to make it a little bit interesting

[@mrcasperjensen]

That’s cool.. I love different

[@lukefox4170]

Fuk yea love crewmans

[@mollyandspike2852]

You've fast become my favourite KZbin presenter

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Thank you

[@paulcoote3094]

I have really enjoyed the supermang build. As far as I am concerned it's been a great outcome. Going ten's is great but it comes with the hassle of andra upgrades etc and further $$$$. I think you have hit the target on this one. Well done.

[@vincekara9446]

I'm a Ford man but a truly love Holdens too. I can remember back in teens I had a VK Calais. That was a really nice car! Keep up the great vids! Cheers

[@chappo4845]

Thanks for the summary Doc!

[@adamloader9534]

Excited for more call outs 😛 We are looking forward to the race between these two modified VN’s

[@rxcosmo76]

Nice Work Scotty. Well explained and layed out.

[@Altospotted]

Love that you kept it supercharged and played around with it like that, that's why I religiously watch supermang videos, and I'd love to see you push it as far as you can supercharged before going turbo/stroked. Maybe use a different blower etc.

[@michael4402]

I know it would be difficult to do, but I’d put in test points across the heat exchanger and see how much pressure you’re loosing across it at high rpm (when engine is using max amount of air). Might need to get a different heat exchanger in or put two in parallel to compensate for pressure loss

[@adrianvadeiso2145]

Love to see the comparison with mindieJ vn with the Ls1 would be interesting to see the difference

[@Xbudmarley420x]

Very happy you shouted out Richard holdener he's a very smart man and gives numerous good dyno videos

[@JossRickard]

Scotty, one thing you might have to think about is the velocity flow of the air in the intercooler itself. Your non IC runs are a flat ~10psi, yes, but with the intercooler, you peak at 12 and drop to 11. You're still ahead of the non IC run. As engine speed increases, the air is spending less time in the intercooler and subsequently less time in the cooler, being cooled. As you change up and engine speed drops, the intake charge also slows and has more time to cool again. But that could also be the lower airflow related to the lower engine speed. I'm not sure you want to condemn it over ~1psi of boost loss, especially with how it's keeping the intake temps down for engine longevity and safety. If that intercooler is dropping intake temp from 110 to 60 degrees, that's worth it for detonation protection alone, regardless of boost gained. But I'd also reckon trying a slightly larger pulley and see what your loss of peak boost is against your sustained boost/intake temp is. But something else does seem off.

[@chriscarey3625]

Scottie, remember the fundamentals, an engine is simply a pump. Pre intercooled the blower was able to maintain a constant 10 psi but as soon as you put tubing and inter cooler the blower couldn't provide the 10 psi right through the rev range, my thinking is it has a restricted inlet system to the blower. And don't forget cool air is more dense than hot air and takes less energy to compress than hot air, this may explain the variation in boost pressure with a restricted inlet system. Mate a big fat throttle body, massive ducting, huge big fat front mount intercooler with a tiny pulley and send it 😁

[@reesekelly6158]

Have you thought about widening the intake and charger piping? My m90 is on a 304 and was also struggling to keep up with supply at high rpm, I ended up getting a 90mm throttlebody and routering out the Aly to equal around the same airflow as a 90mm throttle body, helped it keep up! I guess then the carnage problem will be all the piping to intercooler, unless you use the under charger mount one

[@tulebox7370]

You're absolutely right about running it out of its efficiency range (I'm also a big fan of Richards work) is there any chance of finding an Eaton M112 and bolting it on, to make some super mang mangs

[@ChristopherHallett]

Skip the old gen blowers altogether and whack a fucken TVS2300 on it.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Would be nice

[@brettwatson-will3388]

I would change the pully for a slightly larger one like you said as sometimes less is more! I would also do what you suggested and run less water in the ice tank...Just drain and refill it between runs so that the water is as cold as possible...Pull the LF Headlight out for shits and giggles and maybe ditch the air filter just for racing? See what happens? Have some fun with it before you whack a turbo on the old girl like you plan to... She will crack on then Scotty.

[@JossRickard]

I'm real glad you did this weird little build, not another LS or Barra swap. Commodores aren't really my thing, but this was different and interesting enough to grab and keep my attention all the way through.

[@westaircompressors]

Great episode, nailed this one Scotty. Awesome to see it broken down.

[@RhysK94]

Well explained Scotty!💪 Just for reference, L67 bottom end with arp rod bolts and a cam has gone 750+ and in the 9's @140mph. Ecotec (L36) has gone 575 with only a cam, ran out of fuel line size but it would of kept going. (This is all at the wheels) If your goal is only 450 on the L67 bottom end it will smash that easily 👌 As always, welcome to hit me up for a chat or advice anytime 👌💪

[@5lcalais1]

And add in say u wanna go a t400 instead of the 4l60 it'll need to built so there's another 3/4k or even a t56 is 5k+ just for a box 😳 Gets me motivated to finish my turbo v6 vn (still rocking the s1 buick) and maybe possibly take on the supermang one day 🤣 It's just a standard rebuild with arp head studs and a gt3582r turbo on a tony'z turbo garage turbo kit through a t5, aiming for around 400bhp 🤞 It's around 95% finished but that last 5% is kicking my butt, just need to sort out my oil feed (The one I had was wrong) a breather setup, a tune, and an exhaust and she'll be good to race 👌 It was gonna be a street car but engineering in Vic is a joke, looking at around 4k+ to go through it. So kinda wanna go full race car, looking at a pulsar g42 1450 to slap on the front of a built eco , glide, tubs, etc. Goal of 1000bhp to start with and go for mid 8s 🤔👌 Would be cool to go 7s one day in v6 Commodore, wishful thinking I know and bloody expensive but it would be cool.

[@BOSPWR]

Nice breakdown Scotty, so basically best bang for buck was the diff gears, got you into 12's when boost wasn't playing nice 😅

[@matt.ja90]

Hey Scotty, I have a couple of ideas on this (maybe rookie ideas so bear with me) With lower inlet temps, boost measurement (restriction) becomes greater with higher air density. Therefore, the engine still receives practically the same volume of air as the cause of the restriction has not changed. In this case, I think the supercharger itself is the restriction as when you spin the blower faster, the swept volume of the rotor is greater per cylinder cycle and creates less opportunity for airspace to fill (101 volumetric efficiency I guess) I think you should find a good gain with spinning the blower slower as the restriction will be less (trying to cram less volume of air into space in the supercharger already occupied by the rotor), and allowing the denser air to do its work. If I haven't ballsed something up, the colder you can get the inlet air, you can continue to spin the charger slower for the same volume of air (air density) Could another set of injectors be installed higher up the intake to allow the fuel to draw further heat from the charge air into the cylinder? Could an alternative fuel be an option eg. Methanol or similar with a faster / low temp flame front? I'm ready for the "you have no idea" comments... 😂 In regards to the 5k difference... I know LS is common but for 5k more you're deep into the 11s, I would suspect 5k may still get you into the 11s with the V6 but it isn't as straightforward either... I'm a Ford man but I'm glad you're doing something a bit different! Just wish you could change the sound of the V6 though...

[@backyard_mechanic]

I hated how much you paid for the car but I think you really nailed it in time, the prices are stupid now and you can't get one for less than you paid. Great video guys, you were spot on and had me agreeing the entire time. LS and barra are great swaps for easy power but those are getting way to expensive. The other thing people don't take into account is all the extras that go along with the swap, it is not as simple as chuck the engine in and off you go. You need trans, diff, fuel lines, computers, wiring, and so much more to get it going. A $5k engine swap can easily reach $20k plus before you even start it for the first time.

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

This is your journey Scotty, we're just along for the ride. Sometimes we're going to be right, sometimes we're going to be wrong. It's up to you to steer the ship where you think makes the most sense. Doesn't mean that we won't be yelling at the computer screen and saying WTF!, but ultimately this is your journey and we are the passengers along for the ride. We are going to watch regardless because it is not about how much hp you make or how fast you go. It is about being on the journey with you and being entertained. As you rightly say it is a KZbin channel and often people lose sight of that. If we wanted to watch ultimate builds where people pee in your pocket and make made up and wild claims about hp and edit out their mistakes there are oodles of them on KZbin. What makes you channel unique is that you're real, and don't need to prove anything to us only to yourself.

[@wilwilson8146]

my theory: a seagull has been sucked into the intake leading to less boost... should be able to lure him out with a hot chip 👍

[@1toonhead]

I remember the first episode with Supermang and you brought it to compete with another KZbinr who brought a EB Falcon (same era car) and you where going to compete with it which never happened. It was also going to be budget turbo vs budget supercharger. You had the supercharger option.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

They couldn't wait, they built their car, raced it and sold it

[@Brodes1983]

Intercooler effectiveness also depends on contact time: the faster the air that moves across it the shorter the contact time of the hot air to the cooling tubes and the warmer air discharge. Bigger intercooler means lower flux and cooler discharge.

[@brushitoff503]

Love the SuperMang! It's what I wanted to build with my old VN 20 plus years ago! Good stuff Scotty!

[@trojansixone391]

Mace offer a cnc porting service for about $1600.00, for that they port out the LIM, the charger body and port the supercharger elbow by hand, from memory mace say this alone will drop the intake temp by about 40 deg, I'm about to do this myself just waiting on the snout upgrade from Yella Terra with a 71mm pully approx 14-15lbs boost (the factory snout apparently flexes under load with the smaller pully as you need to machine the front of the factory snout to fit the smaller pullys this machining weakens the snout)

[@danielbrown7077]

This is a tricky one! Gale Banks (Banks performance) has awesome content about intake temps and air temp density's to HP Loss. well worth a look! and to me is the BEST on YT... keep up the awesome work!

[@Bogan_Gaming]

The blower elbow and inlet are a massive restriction. Perhaps with the 2.55" pulley on it cant get enough air into the blower? Perhaps try porting the blower elbow or contacting brushworks for one of theirs and adding a bigger throttle body?

[@Bogan_Gaming]

Also the barrel cooler is going to be restrictive as well. Needs a bigger intercooler

[@stuli6007]

Had a similar headache with my small block HQ back in the day and the main issue was the nut holding the steering wheel!

[@BlownCommodores]

Belt slip? With a 2.55 pulley you need to do the 8pk belt upgrade and you need to add a support pulley under the snout to increase belt wrap around the supercharger pulley. Would be good to see what sort of timing it's running, something doesn't seem right.

[@nigeldyer44]

Awesome info Scotty appreciate it

[@Low760]

The piping is huge, but the outlet/inlet and intercooler run 3" piping, for the flow of the supercharger, 2.5" would probably work a lot better for keeping the charger in efficiency?

[@Doc_in_the_carpet_truck]

The L67 build is still cheaper than the Shane Warne ceramic bong I saw on ebay during the week check that out!!! Top vid Scotty always good to know the price of stuff and things 👍🍻

[@TheDettmers]

i think your on to some thing with over spinning the blower but i think you will find its more to do with air density due to the temps you are seeing now with saying that i wanna see what that ported blower will change power and temp wise but would also love to see what the m112 or m122 swap before the turbo to see what the difference is for the l67s here in aus either way will watch and am loving the content scotty have a great time playing with it

[@generalwaste2062]

I think you're probably right about spinning the blower too fast with diminishing returns. Non-centrifugal blowers are positive displacement pumps rather than turbomachinery so as a rule of thumb they're great for moving air but not building boost. The faster you spin it the more air you'll flow but less head of boost you'll make. So the smaller pulley (or bigger blower) would see a gain on the stroker motor but not on the 3800. Not sure if you'd bother putting the stroker motor in with the blower just to rip it all out again and turbo it though.

[@brentonk461]

For around 12grand for one of my built Engines, you could have a Single four barrel carby'd Holden 304/308 based Engine or a Small Block Chev naturally aspirated v8 combination in a factory 5.0L vn-vr will give you an 11second capable, car through a relatively quiet twin 2.5" exhaust to the rear bumper, on d.o.t tires, on 15x8rims with the stock 3.07:1 LSD borgwarner diff. No turbo, No blower, No nitrous.

[@skymit5519]

I think you should do some home porting on the heads to. Would be cool to see the difference that makes.

[@aidenmartin61]

Have you considered compound charging it with the supercharger still in place..? Run turbo back up and through the charger

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Considered it

[@delcowizzid]

You need to get rid if the little barrel intercooler if you work out the flow area of the tubes through it it's way smaller than your 3in pipes can flow a bigger one with enough flow area to match the cooler pipes will cool better and flow heaps more air you want air temp lower than mid 40 degrees and below the lower the better but after 45 odd degrees you are losing a lot of power

[@wiggstheking5419]

Hey Scotty awesome videos. I would love to see twin charger.. Turbo into the supercharger. That will make the supercharger more efficient with boost and carry the boost further through the rpm range.. Similar to richos customs au falcon.. Superchargers loose efficiency at high rpm and most of the time becomea a restriction also at high rpm and that's when the turbo should show its true colors.. You should be able use the sane setup just a turbo and manifolds

[@wiggstheking5419]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYmzhJVpm6h5npI

[@bazspecfabrication9955]

Great explanation scotty

[@danielstorer1826]

Cornfed boost in Qld has got some crazy horsepower out of his VT something like 800+ give that guy a watch

[@5lcalais1]

Check out jetv6 ,he's gone 1180 👌 on a 4.2 stroker though, corn fed still stock crank n capacity, it's actually been in the 900s 👌

[@danielstorer1826]

@@5lcalais1 I have seen that car is off

[@5lcalais1]

@@danielstorer1826 yeah it's pretty wild, dream setup on the engine 👌 wanna build a similar one but with a g42 1450 turbo hanging off it and go hunting for low 8s 👌🤣

[@chrisobrien9334]

Great episode mate. Certainly puts the cost of a conversion into perspective. Luv Richard Holdener. Take care m8.

[@Official_s1asher]

Would love to see you try the mid range pulley with the 3.7 gears and torque locker it would be interesting to see if the intake temps come down and boost stays consistent

[@deppryan6846]

Have you blocked off the boost solenoid?

[@aaronpurcell6645]

Could be the bypass valve if you still have it on

[@michaelb5330]

Good series Scott Enjoying your thought process and the changes Very much looking forward to seeing the turbo updates which will probably see the most gains Oh and for the tank I’ve seen others use dry ice and glycol with a smaller tank to get cooler temps Just sharing stuff Sounds like the blower is suffering from cavitation Keep up what you do Scott you keep me sane while I’m at work for the week

[@mattt83]

Is it belt slip with the smaller pulley?

[@ants3503]

Few less wild turkeys in the cooler might gain a 🤏 of time 😂

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Haha, maybe

[@ants3503]

@@STREETMACHINETV hydration is important tho 👍

[@darrenpowell8229]

It’s not something dumb like the bypass valve bleeding boost is it? Boost seems to drop to around that peak 10psi mark, peaks at 12 then starts bleeding again. I have no experience with these things but thought it worth a mention

[@andyjames2082]

So much hoohaa, the "Berlina " has been very entertaining 👍

[@timaustin110]

I would be asking is the supercharger efficient at that point Changing it to a different style

[@robertwalker3156]

Could it potentially be the blower spinning too hard at high RPM with the small pulley and causing belt slip? When the engine slows down the load is reduced and it bites again?

[@PHLTHS]

Could the boost tapering off be due to belt slip due to the smaller pulley size without a rewrap kit?

[@peterorourke733]

Does the cam have much overlap on the intake and exhaust? A cam more focused on intake side and a bit less on the exhaust with less overlap might see better boost curve.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

It's a supercharger cam

[@davenelson1571]

Hey Scotty did you ever get round to porting the supercharger like you said you would a while back? I don’t know if doing that would fix the power issue you discussed but I’m still curious about it & would like to see you do it.

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Not yet

[@79series]

Great details mate.

[@chadlantry858]

Hey mate enjoying your videos.I was chasing some further info on Michael marks vs ss commodore turbo install under the guard.You did a write up in may 2016. Any info or pics would be appreciated if possible or who done the work. Cheers

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Check the Street Machine website

[@danielspencer1973]

Nice vid Scotty, that blower looks like it could be healthier and is outside of its efficiency with that pulley. I don't mind what you do next but look forward to the stroker turbo. 😎

[@francocozzo7235]

Before you go turbo, could you adapt a larger blower to it? I picked up an Eaton M122 from a GT500 Mustang a couple years ago and landed it in Australia for less than $2250, unfortunately I sold it and later someone had used it on an AU Falcon and it returned some good results, at one point they saw over 20 PSI with it on the Falcon 4L SOHC. Also be interesting to see water/methanol injection used instead of the water to air intercooler

[@francocozzo7235]

Also just want to add I love your channel, good to see people having a real go.

[@arronjohnston742]

Scotty, port the blower an lower the boost a bit, i'm sure you can improve the blowers flow with some port work an free up some lost ponies...... either way keep up the great work love the different angle instead of the same old path.....

[@ibast1]

what's the pressure differential across the heat exchanger?

[@grantlister]

Hey Scotty, Maybe you could try a RAM Air Induction first, If it’s starving for air? (Even If you put a larger belt drive on later, it won’t hurt! 😂) Much enjoyed the show & from memory Cooper Bogetti approximated USD$20k for his LS to SN Mustang conversion. Kia Kaha, Grant from NZ.

[@skymit5519]

Make the inter cooler plate work and try it. Also fit a newer better supercharger

[@rodgiecobbadventures9727]

Cost me 15,000 to get a forged ls1 built in the backyard by a mate on the cheap. 12,000 to buy a th400 then get built for 1500hp+ with transbrake, another 2500 for flex plate and billet torque converter, 3,000 for mace coilovers. Still need to get custom tailshaft, loom and few other bits and bobs to get it back on the road and dyno, hoping for 500rwhp+ n/a when i make it to the dyno but we shall see

[@jamesturner4001]

Hey mate I’m doing an l67 supercharger motor just wondering what set up you news and program do you new on the computer please mate

[@STREETMACHINETV]

We use the Haltech plug in ECU and software

[@jamesturner4001]

@@STREETMACHINETV ok thanks mate So what is the bracket I have to news for the alternator because my one is hitting on the fuel rail🤔🤔

[@davidvincent2051]

Did you include engineering the LS in the cost? Because that always hurts the budget.

[@brendannunya77]

Great video as usual Scotty.

[@gardenwaster]

I like what your thinking in regards to the pulley, you know what this means - "larger hole in the bonnet"

[@callumtrapski6096]

You could try logging the pressure before and after the cooler. The drop in pressure may be due to the cooler - higher flow = higher dP

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Interesting thought

[@sninstall]

My l67 has 83mm pulley. Seems to have a lot off the line but definitely falls over in the top end. Think the m90 just runs out of puff up high.

[@sinc96]

Did you look into interchillers instead of intercooling?

[@matt.ja90]

$$$

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Yeah, it's expensive

[@gregmyatt9932]

You may be getting belt slip, You did mention you had a coolant leak in last video. Its surprising how far coolant can travel when its blown around as a mist. Maybe try some of that belt grip spray you can spray on.

[@grumpyoldman-21]

are you still running the stock v6 throttle body? or have you upgraded to the larger v8 one?

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Stock

[@finlay230]

love the blower route !! good on ya

[@boatsandblowers6913]

When are you going to do a supercharged Barra with a capa kit

[@markusftw5138]

Maing-Question? That one killed me.

[@markhoey]

Please remember tuning and dyno costs too Scotty, it’s something that always seems get overlooked when mentioning build cost but always a cost the average Joe still has to pay for when modifying. Keep on keeping on with it and look forward to when the snail goes on and you can really stretch its legs…..

[@Beer_Dad1975]

Missed the episode where the blower was introduced, but is it a roots type blower? They typically get extremely inefficient the harder you try to push them - consuming more power from the engine & generating more heat whilst not actually compressing any more air - which could be what you are seeing here.

[@5lcalais1]

I think the m90s a screw type ,problem is they're too small for the engine

[@Beer_Dad1975]

@@5lcalais1 Ah yes M90 would be well out of its efficiency range (which is pretty limited) trying to push double digit boost into this engine.

[@5lcalais1]

@@Beer_Dad1975 people have pushed em to 400hp though, who knows how 🤣 brushworks slick sixes has built quite a few 👌

[@andrewvassallo3444]

What about the dyno session cost or is Zane a sponsor

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Sponsor. But it's a point

[@adamwarner4590]

Great episode thanks

[@7071t6]

As far as air temps and air density, there's a direct connection with HP, the intake temps the colder the air the more power, i would wager, that the intercooler is doing its work, but the amount of air based on the piping is where the charger puller is over working, meaning its trying to suck air and push that air ,but cant keep up under load, you should change the diameter of the tubing going to the intake side of things and also check out gale banks in the USA , he has done so many things with air density mapping and directly into the intake side of things, so no point cooling the air if the intake side of things that air goes in hotter than the air outside, like you did with your own hands at the intake the piping was very hot, yet the piping coming back from the ice water was freezing, that's what i think is wrong with the set up, 63 c degrees air temp is hotter than the outside air, plus at the dyno cell, they have a massive fan to force air to cool everything to a point and at the drags you do not have massive cold air forced at the front of the engine?

[@BLKKND]

Just to keep with the whole point of difference vibe... why not feed the blower with a turbo?

[@FuManchu5ltr]

Scotty’n’tuned in the thumbnail.

[@finnycypress9959]

Would love to see a collab with MindieJ

[@MindieJ]

damn straight

[@7071t6]

Scotty mate at the drags, you said she was leaking from a place ,what was that and did you fix it at the track?

[@STREETMACHINETV]

It was a water leak and I haven't had a chance to fix it yet

[@DaveHiggoHiggins]

Great vid mate. Definitely gotta be onto something there with the supercharger not physically being able to provide enough air to feed the engine. Could be a combo of the cooler pipes being too big and the supercharger needing porting? At the moment, the boost is like throwing a sausage down a hallway.

[@kippen64]

The budget rundown was interesting and helpful.

[@osi9567]

Everyone needs to subscribe MindieJ, absolute legend and awesome channel!

[@donwhite7319]

could it be the tube that folds in when you hit is not letting Air in that it needs ?

[@STREETMACHINETV]

It expands when needed, it only sucks in at idle

[@OBryan-4220]

Brus, 15k is fuck all!! What a beast! Can’t wait to meet you Cobba. Red Centre Nats I hope 🤞

[@10ESS78]

Was the fastest run also the smallest burnout? At that power level with those tyres you’d think a very quick squirt to warm them and clean the crap off would be plenty and help keep intake temps and heat soak to a minimum. Always enjoy the content🤙🏻

[@STREETMACHINETV]

Yeah it seems to favour a small burnout

[@Andy-pb4jg]

Sounds like larger pully and smaller piping might be the go