Strike Fighters 2 - F-14A Tomcat Intercept

Rare to have that kind of success rate with the Phoenix...

[@julianvizio2190]

This is the perfect complex level i want, a light sim. Nothing too easy as a jasf or ace combat but not too complex as dcs. Lets you add a ton of aircraft mods and fly different types without having to sit 5 hours each time and weeks for learning

[@Baerzilla]

DCS has aircraft that work like similar to this, that i am enjoying a lot. Mig29, su27, su33, su25, f15c and an a10 variant. If all those clickable cockpits with millions of systems and long start up procedures arent for you, check them out.

[@camberiu]

Yes, when flight sims were still designed as games first, where fun was the primary goal. DCS feels like work.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

To do a multi-target launch, make sure your radar is in Track While Scan (TWS) mode, and that you have the Phoenix missile selected. Use the next target key as normal to select a radar contact and hit lock target. A '1' should appear next to it. Hit next target, hit lock again, and it should have a '2'. Keep doing this for as many targets as you want, for up to 6 Phoenixes if you are carrying that many. Once you start firing, it will automatically select the next target for each launch.

[@D4rkMatter1975]

The F14 Tomcat is my favourite Aircraft of all-time so rugged and beautiful to look at, plus the engine sounds like a damn lion :)

[@Chrinik]

D4rkMatter1975 DCS F14A/B by Letherneck simulatios could interest you then.

[@JayRacer]

+Chrinik I hope it's good. Is it going to be DCS level quality? I think you can fly a 14 in the new falcon release.

[@Chrinik]

Jay Racer Of course it´s going to be DCS level quality, it´s Leatherneck...haven´t you seen their meticulous MiG-21?

[@JayRacer]

Chrinik I haven't seen the Mig-21 to be honest. I'm not interested in that plane or that era really. They made the AJS-37 though, which looks fantastic. I've seen some 14 teasers. Can't wait until it's released.

[@flyingarrow6672]

D4rkMatter1975 It is a pity that they were removed from combat duty

[@JayRacer]

I'm very impressed with this light sim. It seems like a much easier version of DCS. What is ironic is how old it is yet it employs DX10 whereas Arma, DCS & Falcon just started using Dx11 but we're using dx9 for awhile.

[@johns.7609]

I just acquired this game with some excitement as it fits the niche between hard core sims and the lame-o arcade games. This is the closest thing I can find to Jane's Fighters games from the 90's. While I would have liked something that could really use the power of extra hardware, like in DCS or even War Thunder, it's this level of sim that I really enjoy. I am looking forward to putting time into this. For anyone putting good time into this game, please support the devs and buy a legit copy. Pirate to try it, pay to play. Else no good sims can be expected in the future.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

It really feels like SF2 was "the last of the 90's sims" in a lot of ways. I'm with you in wanting that authentic feeling without getting bogged down in 500 keyboard commands worth of avionics. And don't forget to check out the SF2 modding scene. I stick more to visual mods than user made aircraft and the like, but they go a LONG way towards making everything look much better than in a stock install.

[@simpsonfan13]

Arcade games aren't lame. They're different, but not boring. I like Janes as much as I like Ace Combat.

[@KvltKommando]

I'm having trouble setting this game up, I can't seem to get it run without crashing on windows 7.

[@Alecxace]

I totally wanna go and buy a copy of this now

[@jacobstallcup8648]

Wait you can buy this I tried for 40 bucks and it said not supported any more so I got a Pirate version noooooo

[@hvymtal8566]

I'd say that it shouldn't be that surprising to have such success with the phoenix, it is targeting badgers after all which ARE about the size of a parking lot each

[@NiklasFranGoteborg]

Makes me think of the book "Red Storm Rising"

[@johns.7609]

You and me both! Good book.

[@nizloc4118]

Lol.. was thinking the same Good thing they didnt get duped by Kelt missiles....

[@twintoid3768]

The nostalgia man...

[@ErikMalkavian]

Interesting video. At 7:32 that F-14 Tomcat's port wing would have been sheared right OFF due to the collision with debris. Fired the guns WAY too close and that would have been fatal.

[@cameraman655]

Erik Malkavian Thinking the same, the debris field should have wiped out the Tomcat.

[@ErikMalkavian]

***** Yeah firing guns at that range is absolutely dangerous. Those pieces of an aircraft can fly into the intakes easy.

[@JayRacer]

That just happened to me in DCS a few minutes ago.

[@Gilgamesh347]

Nice looking F-14 Tomcats. I love how you rolled over that last plane.

[@brettt777]

I'm very surprised at how detailed and correct the Tomcat cockpit is for a sim of this level.

[@ronaldwatson1951]

Looking forward to becoming a member of the community, wish I could of seen completed mission, good video

[@Hairysteed]

This is really the F-14:s bread and butter!

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

I mostly wanted to play around with it since I hadn't used it before. Historically accurate to use in combat or not, it just looks damn sharp!

[@gqnciah4798]

Does anyone know that when downloading the SF2 North Athlantic does not work the keyboard? what is the problem?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

It comes with Strike Fighters 2: North Atlantic, available from the Thirdwire site.

[@Blueteamguy]

Yep once you see a backfire on your AWG-9 screen you know its gun slash time :P I don't mind, though. F-14s are good at stuff like that. Come to think of it, F-14s are really pretty good to amazing at most tasks.

[@theminutemonth]

did you target them all at once, or did you fire then lock another then fire then lock another, etc. if you locked them all at once, how do you do that?

[@lordofnomnom9154]

I need to get my hand on this!

[@truenewtype2239]

So hard to find a decent F14 air combat simulator...so under rated

[@hanibelsoun9370]

Hi there. Thank you so much for this video. Could you please tell me how to install the mod?

[@ghost-mikeMZO]

I love this game!!!! Despite the limitations from the beginning.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Absolutely, Sparrows and Sidewinders don't fare much better against the Backfire. Same goes for B-52s if you play around on the red size in SF2 Vietnam.

[@poppinsphere]

how i download strike figthers 2 north atlantic ? can u give me link or data of this game ,please.

[@gtamodman122]

I feel you...

[@jond3929]

So is it worth the $30? I already have WOE and WOV and their great even though they can be glitchy. I heard that the A7 Corsair doesn't even work properly because it automatically crashes when you start a flight from the aircraft carrier deck. Can anyone confirm that?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

+Jon D It's about how much you want the F-14 I guess. It was nice to have it implemented with it's 6 target Phoenix ability, and is a generally iconic aircraft. It's also neat for the first few times seeing everything going on in the campaign, with Badgers and Backfire launching standoff attacks against your CVBG, and the carrier's escorts firing SAMs back at the ASMs. As a whole, however, i didn't find the campaign that interesting beyond the 'show' of the action camera after the first few times, so it really is down to how much you want the F-14.

[@Snachito]

NNTBH, how do you get your water and sky to look like that it looks amazing!! I have the stock version and it looks okay, but I have a good rig and I want it to look like yours!!!

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

The water is SF2:NA stock (it uses a different shader than the other SF2 games). For the sky I used the SARCASM mod and i forget which cloud pack from combatace. It helps a lot, the stock clouds are one of the weakest parts about the game visually.

[@isaaccoote2874]

No Need to Be Human Is it the CloudSpace v3 by chance?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Isaac Coote It could well be, I havn't installed any mods in over 2 years now so I don't honestly remember everything I've used.

[@TarnishUK]

One of my favourite PC games, great feel and character fitting nicely in just below in the complexity stakes of the likes of DCS, it's so accessible and "moddable". For those unaware: store.thirdwire.com/store_p1.htm Strike Fighters 2 series (DX10 compatible) store.thirdwire.com/store_p2.htm Strike Fighters 1 series (DX9.0c) Website says the original Strike Fighters 1 series does not work with Windows Vista or above but with a download of DX9.0c from Microsoft it works perfectly with Vista and Win 7. www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=35 Go to combatace.com/ for lots of add on goodness.

[@LeftIsBest001]

The F-35 is an expensive white elephant.

[@souvikghoshece1608]

how to download this game ??

[@saadfarooqbhatti61]

How to download??

[@johanamayatkd]

Can you sendme a download link of sky & cloud mods used in this video.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

+Johan Amaya combatace.com/topic/85359-sarcasm-20-beta-by-stary/ this is a newer version than what I used back when this vid was released, I ASSUME it's better. For clouds, I couldn't tell you which I used at this point, but just search some on this site, there are plenty of options so one should suit your taste.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

I average 3-4 out of 6 I believe, but it depends on the target. Badgers are generally the highest success rate, with Backfires the lowest, and everything else, fighters included, in between.

[@KaelNL]

I own SF2:Europe but haven't played since I went to Win10. Your light effects and clouds look a lot better than I remember. Did you install a mod? Does SF2:NA come with better graphics? Or is it just my memory? - Thanks for up[loading this, enjoyed it.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

This was recorded with sky and cloud mods, effect mods, and terrain mods, as well as a couple of sound mods I made. Stock looks quite a bit more plain.

[@iam5692]

Will this game work in windows 10? I bought several similar games Non were Windows 10 compatible.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

I can't personally confirm it either way, Windows 10 didn't exist when I last played SF2. I havn't had trouble running anything on WIndows 10 that ran on Windows 7 however, so it SHOULD work, i just can't say first hand that it WILL.

[@r2com641]

does this game have Mouse clickable cockpit? Or Keyboard entry only for all controls?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Nothing clickable in the cockpit, it's all done via keyboard/joystick commands

[@r2com641]

+No Need to Be Human well...that sucks then unfortunately not buying then... DCS and falcon 4.0 are clickable

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

The Strike Fighters series was more intended as a 90's style flight sim where it goes for more of a feeling of authenticity than detailed avionics replication, it won't compete with Falcon or DCS in those regards, but is more appropriate if you want to just hop in for a quick mission here and there.

[@irfanfajarpradana4259]

what video card did you using? its look so realistic

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

This would have been recorded on an AMD 4870

[@thejetfighter]

What MOD did you use for the explosions? They look really good 😀

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Been a long time but I'm pretty sure it was called Unified Effects Pack that I downloaded off of Combatace

[@thejetfighter]

@@NoNeedToBeHuman Thanks, I'll look it up 😀

[@lubobaricakbaricak7724]

hello igive you maybe bad ask and can i buy this game on steam?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

+lubobaricak baricak Unfortunately you can only buy the game directly from Thirdwire's website.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

At the time this was recorded I was using an i7 920 @ 2.66GHz, 12 gigs of RAM, a Radeon 4870, with the game installed to an SSD to minimize load times.

[@buinhat9229]

Hello #NoNeedToBe Human, I've installed this game on my PC (specs: Intel HD Graphics 4000, 8Gb RAM, Windows 10). But the game runs really laggy. Is this because of the PC specs or something? Please give some advice

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

It is because of the Intel integrated graphics you are using, that will struggle with SF2. From what I remember you MIGHT get the game running well enough if you track down the options.ini and set forcedx9=TRUE That will hopefully allow your graphics card to keep up withe the game. Hope that helps!

[@buinhat9229]

No Need to Be Human thank you, I'll try it :)

[@buinhat9229]

No Need to Be Human oops, I couldn't find the option.ini, what should I do?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

It should be under Documents/Thirdwire

[@buinhat9229]

No Need to Be Human ok I found the file, but do I have to add the code line forcedDX9 = TRUE, as I didn't find that line

[@awesomemcawesomeshorts9531]

What website did you get this off of?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

store.thirdwire.com/store_p1.htm

[@brayanfelipeserrano6486]

That skin isn't included in the stock f-14, is it from the DLC? Don't have it so i can't really tell tbh.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

I can't tell you for sure at this point since that was a good 6 years ago. There is an F-14 skin pack DLC on the Thirdwire store though, so if that skin is not stock it's most likely from that. I hope that helps!

[@spamhater160]

Is there a mod for the fire/il-16 you shot down? If so which one?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

The fire/smoke/explosions are all from the Unified Effects Pack. Latest version seems to be combatace.com/files/file/13685-unified-effects-pack-cumulative-update/

[@nathanlarochelle74]

No Need to Be Human I am having trouble installing the mod. Can you tell me how?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Nathan Laro By default and assuming you are using Windows Vista or later, your SF2 mod folder is c:\Users\(your username)\Saved Games\Thirdwire. You'll there see whatever SF2 game(s) you've run. Just copy the folders in the mod under the appropriate game folder.

[@nathanlarochelle74]

No Need to Be Human Ok so I have these folders in the archive imgur.com/azQjSca and this is my saved games folder imgur.com/prMtPkg and I don't know where to put anything.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Nathan Laro Sorry, youtube apparently didn't care to let me know about your message, I only stumbled on it by accident just now. You're in the right folder to put the mods, you just copy those two folders from the mod to that folder in your save games, it'll put the 'effects' and 'flight' folders in with the 5 you have in there already. There are a bunch of folders that the game will recognize in the mod folder that arn't created on their own, mine for instance has 10 folders at this point.

[@AlanTheBest97]

where can I get this game??? it's not on steam...

[@zut656]

here www.thirdwire.com/

[@deathjr664]

........ace

[@gregorybentley5707]

Are these the default clouds? Are you running any mods here?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

This would have been a heavily modded install with replacement clouds, skybox, effects shaders, and so on.

[@gregorybentley5707]

@@NoNeedToBeHuman Do you keep a list or anything of the mods you use anywhere? I'm guessing not but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

@@gregorybentley5707 I'm afraid that it's a 9 year old video, I havn't really played much since. If you go to combatace.com/files/category/388-strike-fighters-2-series-by-thirdwire/ then you'll see categories like sound mods and object mods, and/or you can do a search for clouds for example. I'm pretty sure the mod community is still going strong and will have a lot to offer.

[@gregorybentley5707]

@@NoNeedToBeHuman Roger that, thank you. I knew it was an old video but thought you might still have played. Have a good day and thanks a ton!

[@HotaruZoku]

It's rare to have Phoenix missiles do their job? Weren't they designed explicitly TO drop the very heavy, high speed bombers you face in this mission? Aren't they like a clean million bucks a piece? I've only ever simulated the F-16 and F/A-18, and as such my Tomcat-life-Experience is lacking.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

I can't speak as to how they would have performed in reality in this sort of situation, but at least in Strike Fighters they have a very hard time dealing with heavy ECM coverage and loads of chaff. That said, looking back at this video, those Badgers don't seem to be dropping much in the way of chaff compared to some intercepts I've run in the game, so no surprise that the missiles demolished sitting ducks. I am pretty curious how good the ECCM abilities of an early 70's era missile sized radar could be, now that I think about it.

[@HotaruZoku]

No Need to Be Human In the early 70's, I wager the term ECCM ITSELF didn't even exist yet, even if they were taking their first tentative steps into the world of Electromagnetic Warfare. Given that the Phoenix is designed to handle significantly higher priority targets than the Sparrow is, I figure it's one of two scenarios. Either there's no jamming at ALL...or there IS jamming, and if the 3rd generation missile that the phoenix is an be knocked off course by it, It would probably give a sparrow an electronic anuerism.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

HotaruZoku Sparrows certainly arn't much easier to land on a bomber in SF2 ,though I think a later patch did ease things up some for either missile. It does make me curious about the difference between a Phoenix's onboard seeker vs. a semi-active Sparrow that has the Tomcat's powerful AWG-9 to burn through the noise. It's also worth noting that the conflict in Strike Fighters 2 Europe and North Atlantic takes place in 1979, so while it was still the A model Phoenix in service, more effective countermeasures may have been installed at this point on the Soviet naval aviation faced than what was around during the missile's development. Backfires likely would be more of a handful for these missiles than these Badgers were.

[@HotaruZoku]

No Need to Be Human I hadn't considered that. The Sparrows widely derided semi-active functionality would, with something like the AWG-9, actually end up MORE effective than even an AMRAAM, not that those had been implemented yet.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

HotaruZoku That's where I wish I knew more about the subject. I was wondering how well the Sparrow's seeker interpreted the reflected AWG-9 signals in an ECM environment, and in looking it up, the Sparrow actually senses the guidance radar directly from the aircraft to compare with what's reflecting off the target to compare in order to resist signals jammers put out. Pretty neat stuff, and certainly makes sense.

[@BelovedOppressorAladeen]

where the hell does one buy/acquire this game???

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

store.thirdwire.com/store_p1.htm

[@joshuacrosby1]

What game is this? I want this game. What console is this for? (pc?)

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

This is Strike Fighters 2: North Atlantic for PC. It's actually a combined install of all 5 Strike Fighters 2 games, but the F-14, aircraft carrier, and terrain is all from North Atlantic. thirdwire.com/

[@joshuacrosby1]

Oh, ok. 👍 thanks.

[@barron8006]

is ths a mod. looks way better than my cd version. wherer can i find mods?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Heavily modded. CombatAce.com is still the place to find whatever graphical or object mods you could want. combatace.com/files/category/388-strike-fighters-2-series-by-thirdwire/

[@ojabreu]

Where do I download this mod?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

What specifically are you referring to? All the content is stock, the visuals are a combination of 4-5 visual and sound mods that I downloaded from Combat Ace, or in the case of some of the sounds created myself.

[@ojabreu]

combatace. Thanks...

[@cherminatorDR]

Is there a way to get this game online these days?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Weird, hadn't been to the store in forever, I guess they have all these titles in the "Windows 7" section. I don't know for sure but they SHOULD still work under Windows 10 store.thirdwire.com/store_p1.htm

[@cherminatorDR]

Nice! Thanks man

[@vicentem.6579]

I know it has been some time since your question, but i managed to get all strike fighters 2 games to work in Windows 10, so it's possible

[@KaelNL]

vicente 026 Thanks for that. Haven't reinstalled mt SF2:Europe since my Win10 migration, high time to play this again!

[@Charlitification]

Nice interception. Nice cloud mod.

[@pacmanplays4538]

Do you have any Mods installed?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Mostly sky/cloud and effects mods to pretty everything up.

[@AlexModeling]

No Need to Be Human were can i get those mods? thanks for sharing this

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

You should be able to find all of them at combatace.com/files/category/388-strike-fighters-2-series-by-thirdwire/

[@AlexModeling]

No Need to Be Human thanks!

[@Kilo-sz4ch]

Where do I buy this game?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

store.thirdwire.com/store_p1.htm

[@Kilo-sz4ch]

@@NoNeedToBeHuman thanks. I tried to find this through Google a few months ago but had no luck

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

@@Kilo-sz4ch No trouble. Development on the game stopped many years ago, so it's probably lower profile than ever.

[@XxXLOLMarioXxX]

squadron name???

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

VX-4, a test/evaluation squadron

[@XxXLOLMarioXxX]

Thanks

[@fritagogo1]

;-))) utilise la version 1 vraiment intéressant la version 2....

[@drv30]

man, this game should be on like epic game store or something if they dont like the steam greediness.

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

It would be nice but I'd be surprised at this point if anything like that to happened. You never know though, I suppose.

[@Blueteamguy]

A little weird that you are using test evaluation squadron skin IMO :/

[@125studio4]

strike fighter 2

[@gtamodman122]

I honestly don't know who to believe...real-life specs or video games.These two talk about 2 entirely different AIM-54s.Right now, you're lucky, I usually have (original game missiles) up to 2 missiles failing to track, and maybe 1-2 (on rare occasions 3) missiles who miss. Congratulations nevertheless, 6 on 6 is by no means a frequent happening.

[@Mossb590A1]

No fighter escorts?

[@IDF1987]

realistically, I wouldn't expect them in a late 70s early 80s engagement. Probably too far from land for Soviet fighters.

[@Cybernaut76]

Makes me understand why Soviets relied on ICBMs much more than bombers. I also wonder if American strategy for intercontinental nuclear war was flawed. B-52s would have been just as easy targets for Migs...

[@IDF1987]

Cybernaut76 The B-52 would've been vulnerable. The plan was to use heavy jamming to interfere with intercept. How well that would work is anyone's guess. I guess SAC wasn't too confident as they eventually developed the B-1 and B-2

[@Cybernaut76]

Ben Electronic jamming works against radar guided missiles (you can be targeted by them from ground and from hostile aircraft). How well that worked in practice can be found out by examining the documents concerning those planes with electronic jam equipment that flew over North Vietnam and other possible places where they got targeted by Soviet made SAM radars. However, if you get shot at with the likes of K-13, only a flare or two can fool the missile. Against showers of 20mm projectiles fired from relatively close range, all you can do is pray if your plane is B-52 (earlier heavy bombers could not take many hits from anything 20mm). It can clearly be seen why SAC apparently had some lack of faith in B-52.

[@nizloc4118]

I like the back and forth here Few points. SAC wasnt "worried" about the B-52. Theres a reason it still flies today. But the general public seems to believe there is anything we can build that wont be killed... this wasnt the case. They knew the B-52s would be ravaged. But many would make it through as well.... That said, if B-52s were ever launched against the USSR, they werent going to have anything to come home to either....

[@Youda00008]

is this a clean game or some addon/mod ?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

The game was run with a clouds/sky mod, an effects mod, and most of the terrains aside from NA had modded textures.

[@Youda00008]

No Need to Be Human so the F-14 is in the core of the game?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

***** Strike Fighters 2: North Atlantic only includes the F-14 and the A-7, but you can download user-created aircraft, or merge other Strike Fighters 2 titles that each include its own set of aircract.

[@tiagomelo8737]

Cool game, but not to the clouds effect.

[@viktorseidel5610]

LOL! I tried the game after watching this video, and the game makes you think flying jets is something easy. Heh it´s more arcade than sim. Sometime try DCS or BMS F16 ;)

[@Snachito]

You are correct SF2 is more of a "light sim" along with the SF1 packages, but nonetheless they are still fun sometimes and after this video I didn't realize how nice the graphics were compared to SF1 (which I have but would like SF2)!! Definitely right Ten V..... Falcon BMS and DCS A-10C those are sims!!

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

Absolutely. If I had the time I'd certainly like to get into some more detailed simulations, but when you only have a few minutes here and there, simplified avionics and quick, randomly generated missions is perfection.

[@Snachito]

No Need to Be Human Amen to that NNtBH!!!

[@Youda00008]

It's a good game, when you start with simulators. On this one i learned the dogfighting

[@viktorseidel5610]

Maybe because BOS came out before few days and BMS is from 1999? MAYBE? :D

[@GamerV11]

Every download of this game is dead D: i want it so bad :'(

[@ty8012]

GamerV11 you can always just support the developers by buying it legally off their website

[@GamerV11]

Tyler Eaton Yeah but it's too expensive to buy things for me, since i'm in argentina and Dollars are $15 "pesos" so 1 dollar is 15 pesos, not very fair and too expensive

[@SeccrssYT]

seems kinda aimbot... ?

[@NoNeedToBeHuman]

If you mean the turrets on the Badgers, if I'm not mistaken the rear turret had a radar, so it's probably pretty accurate to look 'aimbot'-ish

[@michaelwayne1012]

I bought the sf1 series on win. xp and it worked great......Now I have win 7 with the sf2 series and it works fine so long as you don't try to add-on craft.......The new software from thirdwire suck big time...I even tried to contact Thirdwire and they never responded......... But they didn't seem to have any problems taking the money tho. THIRDWIRE= THIRDRATE PRODUCTS.

[@elijahstewart1333]

Strike Fighters mobile sucks,

[@gtamodman122]

soviet fighters lack chaff, so they tend to get shot down relatively easily.Backfires, on the other hand, are a totally different story.Those damned chaffs alone render the Phoenix useless.