Struggling as a Cinematographer? How to Price Yourself

[@QZ_AU]

Hi Luc, can you make a video on the topic of renting out gear? Would like to hear your personal experience and how you go about contracts & insurance. Thanks!

[@LucForsyth]

For sure, I'll add it to the list!

[@who2999]

I don't do a ton of documentary work outside of my full time gig at a local tv station so it's interesting to see what doc shooters are charging. I sort of based my freelance rates for commercials off of what I use to make shooting weddings. Typically $800 a day for me, a drone, 1 mirrorless cam, 1 cinema camera, a modest sound setup (two lavs, a couple digital recorders, and a boom), and general camera support gear. Without gear I charge $400 for a day. I'll also do $100 per hour for smaller gigs with gear, or $75 an hour for small gigs or post work where I don't need gear. At these rates I'm typically considered pretty cheap for the Saint Louis area, but most of my clients tend to be other production houses who are tacking me onto their production crews to handle larger jobs, or to pick up some of the things I specialize in. Now an odd kicker is I've found in the last couple years since I've started doing pro drone work I've been able to get people to easily pay me $300+ for just doing about an hour of drone work without any other gear or setup, not saying I'd choose to go this route entirely because I love story telling but it's quickly become the easiest sell with the highest pay to work ratio for me.

[@LucForsyth]

Nice one, yeah I always thought that a serious drone business could be big money maker. Maybe not your passion, but a great side hustle. I mean $800 a day is nothing to sneeze at, sounds like you're doing pretty well down there! keep it up!

[@michellemartincreative]

Love your videos. You give realistic, good advice and it's super encouraging and refreshing to see on KZbin. Cheers from another Vancouverite!

[@tomtomtheninja]

Coming from someone who has attended film school and has 12 years of working experience so far, I charge $400-750/day for solid cam op work. When I DP on a commercial or short film series, I make $900+/day. Kit fees are usually encouraged if you have to use your own gear. When someone asks for my availability and my rate, I usually shoot them the appropriate range and let them come back with an offer (usually in the middle or high end). Although, your local rates may differ. In my town, rates are going up. 1st ACs are starting to charge $800+ kit fee, which is crazy. When you do good work with reliable consistency, it's amazing how easy work is to find. I never ask or bid for a standard gig and haven't for a couple of years now. People ask me for availability, and it never ceases to amaze me.

[@LucForsyth]

Sounds pretty much in line with my market experience, though first AC for $800 is amazing! And yeah, you're definitely right that things will continue to go up. I'm sure in a few years I'll have to redo this who thing!

[@BrisbaneChannel]

Helpful as always. It'd be great to have a video on putting together a show reel, as a good reel would be such a valuable thing to get gigs, especially for those of us at a very early stage in our career.

[@LucForsyth]

Great idea, I'll add it to the list!

[@Ryan-Payne]

Money is always a tough one, finding the balance between work and life is even tougher so it's always appreciated to hear the insights especially in such an uncertain workforce such as freelancing.

[@LucForsyth]

Yeah, it's the worst. The struggle is the same for us all I think...

[@pchuck1439]

Commenting two years later! I'm getting 1000/Day for Doc and corporate work. Just raised my Commercial rate from 1500/day to 1600. Indie films vary depending on budget. I don't own gear as I can rent a FX6 or C300M3 from fellow DPs. But I'm looking into buying a used C500 M2, if this doc comes through. Great content as always!

[@IdeaStudioBKK]

Thanks for putting this out there, Luc. This isn't information that generally gets shared with such honesty.

[@LucForsyth]

You're very welcome! Hope it helped

[@youngerbrotherpictures]

Great stuff Luc! Side note I've noticed lately a couple channels I usually enjoy not explaining clearly (or at all) the question they are asking in their title. It's not clickbait, but it's just vague filler. Keep up the good work with your videos, loving it!

[@LucForsyth]

Thanks! Hopefully I'm not doing that here!

[@youngerbrotherpictures]

@@LucForsyth you are doing the opposite and it is why I keep coming back!

[@prefix808]

Agreed! I keep coming back for more.

[@RotarySMP]

Excellent video.

[@Maros_Mari]

Hey Luc, thanks for sharing this topic. It seems world's apart from what I think rates are in central Europe, but good to know. I spent 10 days as a one man band making a documentary in Kenya about the street kids and people helping them and got what DP gets in one day for whole trip /including flights/, but it is encouraging to know there are jobs that pay you and can live from this type of work. I would love to ask if you could make one episode about the coverage - how you think when you start shooting a scene - angles, shot sizes, movement, etc. In my personal experience I find this sort of info hard to come by. Thanks a lot.

[@LucForsyth]

Yeah, rates aren't equal, and believe me I didn't start there. I was doing NGO work in Cambodia for the first 4 years of my career. But if you build up and stay in the game the rates will come. And there's a video on coverage coming up in the next couple weeks!

[@NicolasVildosola]

Thanks a lot! just in time to submit a quote for a job

[@LucForsyth]

Nice, happy bidding!

[@josephfriedman614]

Getting to know what people are charging is always fascinating to me. Here in NYC, I'm charging $1000/day for me and $500-600 for my gear which is an FS7, FX3, plus lighting and sound stuff. I've gotten more when the opportunity is there. Will I work for less: Sure, if I like the producer, like the project, or the shoot fits some other kind of convenient or enjoyable criteria.

[@crodas8628]

Thank you as always for the sharing the knowledge. You have great videos.

[@LucForsyth]

Thanks Christian, glad you like them!

[@LeoArmenta]

If you came to México-Puebla i can rentyou Aputure lightning ✌🏼😜 Excelent video my friend!!!

[@DesmondSimon]

Nice, the prices are pretty similar out here in New Brunswick. I'm definitely on the lower end since I am just starting out. But I do think that working for free a few times has built up my confidence.

[@LucForsyth]

nice one, and hey - the money goes a lot further out there! Bonus!

[@DanWatts.]

Super helpful video has always Luc, would you be able to give me a bit of idea of the fee charged for gear rental? Would be good to get more information on that aspect too!

[@stevenkralovec]

Camera assistant is the other way to say the formal title of Assistant Camera, 1st Assistant Camera, 2nd Assistant Camera, etc. I could be wrong (because everyone shortens it to “1st AC” “2nd AC” etc) but I think “AC” is based off that.

[@LucForsyth]

I think you're right!

[@kevinl20082008]

Hi Luc, do have any plans on shooting feature films or transitioning from Doc to narrative films. Thanks.

[@WhySteve]

I think it's "Assistant Camera" AC. Also, so far I only get booked for R1500-R3000 a day which is like $80-$150 a day. Unless I book my own stuff like weddings then I get like $500 for the wedding, but still need to edit a day so yeah. Other people make $500-$1000 for stuff like weddings but so far, I think rates for video in South Africa are pretty low and it makes it hard to grow. The film industry here is very niche and nobody is really willing to collaborate.

[@LucForsyth]

Yeah I've actually heard that about SA before...but at least the cost of living isn't too crazy depending on where you live

[@WhySteve]

Cheap as hell when you live with your parents :'D

[@sarahfonger5627]

So helpful! Thank you!

[@LucForsyth]

You're welcome!

[@bshalr]

Thank you as always. 🙏🙏

[@LucForsyth]

You're very welcome!

[@JesusMartinezCreates]

those are pretty good rates. I just went freelance once more haha my rates in commercial are 600 day rate to gaff 750 day rate to DP I started buying gear to rent out lol got a couple rentals in but definitely not enough Haven't worked with a production in documentary so didn't know those rates.

[@LucForsyth]

I'm sure it's a little different everywhere, but I think that's fairly normal in my experience!

[@TheFlyFishingFilmmaker]

I don't know if you listen to the Wandering DP podcast but he just did a survey about this, it's really fascinating.

[@LucForsyth]

Such a great show. I come in and out of it, but I also took his commercial DP course which was really well done.

[@TheFlyFishingFilmmaker]

@@LucForsyth That's awesome. I was thinking it would be a cool video for you to talk about some of places you get ongoing education (podcasts, other creators, etc), or what courses you really found value in.

[@bjarkisteinnpetursson9736]

Careful if you live in a high income/high cost of living country. Clients should know that hiring local crew simply costs more in these countries. $15/hr may be fine for a relative beginner in the US but in Iceland it’s not going to cut it. We all need to put roofs over our heads and food on the table.

[@LucForsyth]

You’re absolutely right man!

[@Videosbyme278]

Hey man, I actually left this comment on one of yor community posts but then found this vid and felt it was more appropriate to post here, I'm having a pricing question. A lot of the videos I do I'm a one-man band. Plan, shoot, edit, deliver, and I quote my clients a flat rate based off of how many days of shooting etc. I've been offered a cool doc shoot to be the main DP for about 3 weeks straight. I wouldn't be doing sound or anything, for something such as this, do you simply take your day rate and multiply it by the 21 days? or do you give any sort of discount on your day rate when it's a longer shoot. 750 is the day rate I typically use, so is just that for 21 days a fair quote or would you discount it. Would love your advice Thanks!

[@jpsilvafilms]

This is a great video. I'm trying to come up with a reel of my work. What are some tips of things I should have on it? "what makes a great reel great"?

[@LucForsyth]

Be ruthless and only the very best of the best make it in. Don't include mediocre shots just to prove you've done certain styles of work, just the best of the best. Start with 1 minute, then if you have more expand it. Good luck!

[@danabeldp]

I live in Philadelphia area. This is my first year as a freelancer but I was fulltime with a few production companies over the last two years. I charge $750 for DP/Cam Op $650 for AC/Gaf work. I also own an Ursa 12k that I rent out for $350 a day which helps with additional rate. And I own a 1 ton G&E kit that I also rent out not as frequently for smaller productions or when I am hired as a gaffer. Regardless I aim for atleast $750 a day. Some more experienced DP’s in my market charger up to $1500 a day but that is at a higher commercial level.

[@LucForsyth]

Nice one, that's solid. Yeah commercial is where the big money is at, but unfortunately I"m just not that into it!

[@tamirbelo]

I'm looking into buying a new camera for myself, and I've been thinking about one of the Fujis. In your experience, how do sets\small docs 'treat' cameras that aren't huge cinema cameras?

[@LucForsyth]

I use Fujis for stills but don't have a lot of experience with them for video. I think the image quality would be just fine from what I've heard, and you could shoot some amazing stuff with pretty much any high end mirrorless these days. If the question is about whether or not people would rent it from you, that could be a bit harder as most people are used to seeing Sony mirrorless or possibly canon. It's a real thing that showing up with a small camera can change perceptions of your "professionalism", but I'd see that as a challenge to just prove them wrong by doing amazing work. If you're just starting out, I'd' say get the camera you can afford and that you actually want to shoot with. Worry about what other people think later.

[@oospagheti]

man, sad truth that an Ac on US is paid the ammount of a good editor or director of photography here in brasil

[@r.c.reidfilms]

Luc, i got to work on my first set other than my own shorts. it was a great experience. i got to do the slate and get lenses for the DP. still waiting for you to let me intern with you🥺

[@LucForsyth]

Nice one, congrats! That would be sweet when the right project comes up, noted!

[@kyleranney]

Id say the rates are close, but they're more documentary. Add a bit more for commercial and lose a bit for indie or low tier union feature. I'm getting $800 with another $800-1200 with kit. I have 2 FX9s, a battery fleet, led kit and a halfish ton grip kit. Clients on that range from PBS, FIFA, Things going to Hulu and more unknown. I don't always end up seeing my work.

[@LucForsyth]

nice one, yeah that sounds pretty much in line with what I've found. And totally hear you on not seeing your work, one of the weird things about being a DP in the mainstream doc industry...once shooting wraps, you're out!

[@banderlust]

I'm getting into really cheap countries and is getting hard to get paid. Long road to get hired from companies

[@LucForsyth]

I hear ya...though I started my career in Cambodia - it's definitely doable!

[@GhosthunterDanNorvell]

Assistant Director, Assistant Producer, Assistant Camera

[@jonathanrose456]

Assistant cameraman in the uk

[@davidschwan]

Nice bro

[@LucForsyth]

👊🏻

[@johnclay7644]

informative 15mins.

[@LucForsyth]

That's a solid rate, good job man! And yeah, you do need to be aware of what people will accept, the same is very true here in Canada

[@MattiasSkoog]

Thanks. Valuable insights. I live in a fairly small city in Sweden. Charge 1000 UD per day plus renting out my camera bodies used (FX9, FX6, FX3) and sometimes (not always) charging for other gear as well. Reason I often don’t do is simply that I feel (may being just uncertain/afraid) that the projects will turn out too expensive for the local market… 🫣

[@LucForsyth]

yeah, the same struggle here in Canada sometimes. But sounds like you've got a great thing going on, that rate is nothing to sneeze at!