Struggling with Mormon Perfectionism - Ally Christiansen Pt. 1 | Ep. 1633

[@terryschiefer7050]

I’m always happy when Margi is on with the guests. Margi has a wonderful sense of sensibility and intellect

[@LaLaJonesG]

Margi is the bomb please keep her coming back on here!! Love what she adds to these stories!!❤️

[@MKConnecticut]

Margi is Sooooo spot on. Finding your voice - finding your FEELING- is HUGE. ♥️

[@MKConnecticut]

10 minutes in and my heart is breaking for this sweet young woman

[@MKConnecticut]

Living with perfectionism can be traumatic. Thank you for your comforting words Margi. Catholicism created perfectionism too. And I was that “ easy “kid too- it’s more of a burden than most people know

[@HalfInsaneJane]

I grew up with her. Went to highschool with her. She was the golden child I've always looked up to her. I'm currently in Delta and struggling with my testimony in the church.

[@laurenjohns7276]

God! Margi is SOOO validating! As someone who didn't discover my own asexuality until 6 years into my marriage, everything Margi said to honor Ally's journey resonated deeply with me- it brought me to tears! Wish my mother could respond to my journey in a similar way. Love hearing from Margi and LOVE her as an addition in this episode!

[@mormonstories]

Thanks for joining in the chat and sharing your experience too, Lauren!

[@janicaribeiro6350]

Margi is the best . The neighbour, friend , counsellor we all wished we had .

[@tlcmeans]

Omg, the priesthood blessing seems terrifying!

[@mokanger97]

This was such a powerful episode. Ally is so wonderful and vulnerable, and everything Margi has to contributes adds so much beautiful validation and value. I would love seeing Margi on more episodes

[@barbieqsumm]

I love listening to Margi’s perspective. She is so validating to me. And the way she speaks so calmly and clearly is so comforting. Thank you for this episode.❤️

[@nsasupporter7557]

How do you get on this podcast?

[@dr.bandito60]

@@nsasupporter7557 I believe there is an online application (maybe email) and you fill our some details about your story and potential interview outline

[@corinnemarkham7012]

I'm at the part where Ally's BYU professor asked her if she would want a priesthood blessing, she said yes, and he took her to his office and gave her one. Tell a never-mo than a male college professor approached his young impressionable and vulnerable female student and asked if she wanted to go alone to his office where he was going to stand over her with his hands on her head and give her instructions and feedback about her life, including her unborn children that she was supposed to have, and! A secret message from her future husband's patriarchal blessing so she would have essentially a decoder ring to figure out who God wanted her to marry. Good grief. Mormons have the worst boundaries 😅

[@katliese]

Yes! Adult male leader in an office with young pretty impressionable needy girl! 😳 Inappropriate in any religion. Even secular! Especially distasteful for a Devout Mormon man.

[@shivapazoki1881]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Boi33-mc4hs]

Maybe their boundaries aren’t so poor, as their instinctual desires are extra strong due to strict repression and very frightening dogma. Ally is a stunningly beautiful woman. Perhaps the temptation just to be near her, touching her, was too strong for him to resist. Add to that the LDS teachings that “good feelings come from God,” 😮and it’s a recipe for busting boundaries. This is part of the problem of men solely being able to hold the priesthood and give a “priesthood” blessing. Imagine how much safer and empowering it would be for everyone, IF older women blessed younger women. It would not completely eliminate s*x*al abuse, because deeper doctrinal problems are driving the s*x*al dysfunction in the LDS church; but it couldn’t hurt. Even IF women will never be able to hold the priesthood, why not require an older woman to be present during ANY event where a young woman will be “handled”by a “priesthood holder” ? Why not always require open doors and multiple people of both sexes to be present during baptisms, blessings, camping activities, etc. It seems the church is served by not educating their members on boundaries, inappropriate power dynamics, individual rights of body autonomy, or each person’s unique identity. Even the young women’s group is called the “Beehive”…. A focus on group dynamics, not individual unique differences.

[@kimgoeckeritz6320]

This interview is incredible. I love all that Margi brought to this episode. Thank you so much for sharing yourself with us. It is apparent how authentic you are. It has made me want to find my authentic self.

[@cptdebbie]

I’m so impressed with this young woman. She radiates beauty from inside.

[@allychristiansen]

:DDDD I mean I have done a lot of therapy but i still love external validation so thank you very much!

[@nicolabrophy226]

Hearing about your sexuality after marriage after hearing your story was wonderful. I understood you better and then I related to you better so thank you. And what a relief to understand a bit more about myself from your story too.

[@dr.bandito60]

that’s so lovely. little insights and connections like this are amazing.

[@DaySay-cw2ty]

Bring back so much memories of the Dakotas mission when she talks about our mission and Ally is one of the most talented sister when it comes to music.❤

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

Great interview. Ally really paints a picture of toxic perfectionism and an abandonment of the self. I also loved how Marghi said that perfectionism is an isolating armor and I really enjoyed her as co-host on this interview. I am so happy Ally found such a great husband. It was so sweet and hopeful and feels like real love and not a duty.

[@classyjitterbug]

Ally and I went to school together. I can attest to who I knew she was. Strong, leader, kind and structured. I never viewed it as a bad thing. I admired her kindness and still do. I admire her for stepping into her truth. I left the church at a young age and experienced being iced out by my peers for it. I can say that the church did influence my life long term. Of course there are other factors but the expectation to be perfect and easy was hard and impacted choices there after. Having a voice was what made me leave the church. I wasnt allowed to speak up. Any time I had questions it was always “read your scriptures more” So I left. It felt hypocritical to live “obey and comply” lifestyle when others weren’t doing that outside of church but in church they were accepted because they chose to not have a voice or question things. That made me feel even worse. If Christ is loving why don’t I feel his love here? I lost my faith because of this church. I regained it on my own.

[@allychristiansen]

[@MKConnecticut]

I’m watching this many months later but my heart is hurting for this apparently very KIND, STRONG and yet vulnerable young woman. As usual watching Mormon Stories, I don’t think a lot of these young people even understand the trauma the church has caused. Never being Mormon, but growing up VERY Catholic- I relate to so much of what Ally’s saying. Suppressing feelings can do A LOT of Harm. “Speak loudly even if your voice shakes” I forget who said this- it was a woman♥️

[@AndrielleHillis]

Okay, here's a confession: I get just a little bit emotional every time a musician is on the show, I get a little bit emotional because even though I grew up in a musical family, I have no musical talent whatsoever. I was better at math and science. I remember the dedicatory prayer for the Conference Center, how they talked about music and art, but they never mentioned math and science. It was like the pretty girls who could sing and play piano, but we plain, more left-brained girls didn't matter as much.

[@watchdog8058]

my grandmother played several instruments and could knit, quilt and crochet anything. me, nope more a reader, good with money etc. my son can play several instruments, learned by himself. we are all valuable in our own way and that is ok.

[@AndrielleHillis]

@@watchdog8058 Exactly!

[@livehealthyfinishstrong]

I am one of your “never Mormon” subscribers. If the LDS church has been losing about 80 of young Mormons since about 2016, the church and Utah as a state, will change greatly.

[@LaLaJonesG]

This woman is near and dear to my heart. I can so relate . Thank you for sharing!!! Sending love.

[@BrigitteDiessl]

I love having Margi on.

[@jeraleewood5969]

I grew up in Utah and live in Oregon. My therapist said that he has the hardest cases with LDS patients. Once I learned that "perfect" means "whole," it all finally clicked for me. Life is about seasons and perception at each stage.

[@spunkycat6144]

When she is talking about her time in the mission field, my heart just ached. I met ONE single guy who shared with me that when he was a missionary that something caused him to NOT believe in the church anymore but that he finished out his mission. I can't remember why he still goes, but I got the gist that in his world and social setting that he stays in the church because of the disciplined life that he is encouraged to live and that he belongs. He was an only child so you can see the lonely factor.

[@AMFibers]

When Ally talked about the first time she opened up to someone, that hit home. I also had a friend who kept pushing me until I opened up and I am forever grateful to her. 🧡

[@jaclynjoseph720]

Ally and I went to high school together, we were in the band and cross country and I always loved being around her. She is hilarious and absolutely beautiful. She is the sweetest! I am still active in the church and just want to thank you for sharing your raw story( yes i listened to the whole thing). I can relate with the similar feelings of perfectionism in my own past and sometimes present and those feelings of diasappointing God. I think life is messy and that there's so much we don't know and understand, but i know these things for sure, God loves us, Jesus Christ is real and that all things will work out in the end. I have peace in that. Best of wishes in your journey through life and faith💕

[@allychristiansen]

aw man I wouldn't have made it through freshman year cross country without you! thanks for listening in!

[@jaclynjoseph720]

@@allychristiansen You're welcome girl! Same! Take care 💕

[@lynnhobby32321]

Gr3 teacher here. When you’re talking about primary it breaks my heart bc I see daily the struggles of kids from highly religious families struggle with perfection. Kids are supposed to mess up. It’s how you learn. It breaks me a little every day. I just try to lead with acceptance and love. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@oritigra]

Thanks to Ally for vulnerability and for her bit on asexuality, it was very helpful to hear!

[@dianethulin1700]

I really love that you said “spiritual nourishment” that you felt singing in the chorus. You nailed it! Yes singing joyfully does nourish us!

[@LaLaJonesG]

The book Codependent No More is so good. Melody Beattie has a lot of good stuff. Helped me learn new coping strategies. I can love people but I don’t have to do things for them they can do for themselves. Lots of stuff on boundaries in her books.

[@dr.bandito60]

I second this! A great book.

[@matthewmitchell68]

Let’s be LOUD about the church destructive policies and toxic culture.

[@sgholman]

I grew up with Ally's older siblings and now live in our small town again, after years of distance - both physical and emotional. I was raised mormon but really never had a true crisis of faith because I was always pretty skeptical and had pretty free-range parents. I think watching this has made me realize how even the most seemingly innocuous things can play into the larger power dynamic within the church and community. I didn't really connect with the emotional struggles of being active, and I think it's really enlightening to hear firsthand the experience of someone that at the time was "on the other side" of the mormon fence - if that makes sense. Thanks Ally :D

[@allychristiansen]

hey there stranger! ; ) glad it was helpful to watch!

[@rayfinlinson3622]

😉

[@spunkycat6144]

If this makes her feel any better, every missionary I have ever met (I still get visits from the girls, which I cherish) I remember them and pray for them at random times. There is a spiritual connection that doesn't seem to able to be broken.

[@janesmith9024]

I love hearing from singers. At university here in the UK that ability to sing in a very good choir was one of the highlights of my whole life.

[@clandestineism]

Margie and John's love is such goals.

[@spunkycat6144]

Hats off to those that served missions. I was in the Army and we got to write home/get letters during basic training but that is only 6 weeks. That is a long time (too long) to not be able to call home. And we only worked out 3 days a week (M/W/F). That every day stuff needs to change. And you workout in a gym in bad weather, but I was medical so maybe the regular Army does it different. The workouts in winter are 3:30-4:30PM. Ya'll need to adjust that workout system. Getting sick is not okay and not enough sleep or freezing is 'ate up. '

[@trevordixon]

The music still gets to me too. A few times a year I'll listen to a church song and sob. Last time it was I Am a Child of God and Come Come Ye Saints.

[@mormonstories]

Thanks for sharing, Trevor. I have mixed feelings about music as well. Sometimes they make me sad, sometimes angry, and sometimes they still sound beautiful.

[@spunkycat6144]

@1:55, I felt the same way my first time in the Temple, the exact same way. I loved it and wanted to go back. I have honestly never felt more loved than during the washing and anointing or whatever it's called now, it's been a long time.

[@ScottBub]

When it comes to appropriation there is a really important point and distinction that needs to be made. Cultural appropriation is when you take the culture from a different culture and use it for personal gain. Not just out of respect or love of the culture, but to use it as a way to further an organization’s, company’s, or one’s self gain. Identity appropriation I have never heard of. So that’s something I need to explore more. Really interesting emotional and beautiful episode.

[@beckyobeck]

Thank you for sharing your story 😢

[@doubtingdennis]

I would just contest one thing in this episode; masturbation and the ability to do it freely or without guilt, or to fantasize or what have you, has NOTHING to do with monogamy. I definitely understand that masturbating is treated differently by religions, but monogamy is the healthiest relationship structure no matter what you believe. I've seen what the alternatives have done to people I love and I don't think they should be treated as equal options. Margie I love what you said about vulnerability being the antidote or cure, that was beautiful and really resonated with me!!

[@saltandiron3379]

@mormonstories Can you talk more about eating disorder culture within Mormonism? Dysfunctional relationships with food and eating patterns run rampant throughout Utah. I have an eating disorder as well as SO many other women I’ve encountered in the church. The men in my family were always verbally noting on our appearance and when someone was looking a little “too hefty”.

[@jeremymcclellan474]

Whoa! Hello from Ridgecrest!

[@BG-ig6fd]

Yes, masturbation really is normal and healthy. It is a solution to marital differences in sexual desires., without resorting to infidelity. Why does puritanism hate masturbation so much? Is it because it erroneously thinks that if someone masturbates they won’t want to have sex with their spouse? That scares organized religions since they have always been about making babies.

[@wendydavidson1589]

Loving the ace representation on the pod!! I remember having a few conversations with a pair of missionaries, and when I told them I was ace, they suggested that if I were just a faithful LDS member throughout my life then surely Heavenly Father would give me sexual attraction in the next life. Unbeknownst to them, that was perhaps the least appealing thing they could have said! At least in my experience (all ace folks are different), there are few things more distasteful than the thought that maybe this completely bizarre and unwieldy attraction might take up space in my life. I'm quite happy not having to deal with that, thank you very much! Sexual attraction sounds exhausting!

[@steffenchristiansen8288]

Who knew I would find a possible cousin in law on morman stories. And so thankful John pronounced the last name correctly.

[@watchmewatch9]

Riveting episode. What a pure delightful young woman. Loved the dynamic team of interviewers (wink wink)

[@katliese]

Me too! Margi is a wealth of female experience and reflection. Much respect.

[@spunkycat6144]

The lyrics in the children's songs were disturbing to me (good and pretty sounding wasn't the issue) when I was called to do the music for the young kiddies. Let's explain...I don't have kids, but I was a kid, the music that I had growing up was about Jesus and His love for us and certainly not about earning a way into Heaven or being good enough or anything that hints about being perfect. I discussed this with the Bishop and wanted to teach songs, like Jesus loves me, just a sweet basic song. We went over all the primary songs and I pointed out lyrics that were not quite like the music I was raised on in a Methodist church. The music is good, don't get me wrong and I LOVE the music but the words need to be focused on love, mercy, life everlasting, I don't know, something other than teaching kids to put a mask on at such an early age. It clearly has an impact. Let's redo all the kiddy songs so they don't have to think they have to be perfect. Songs stay in your heart forever and the ones as a kiddy, certainly stick. They also help form your personality (what you put in your head).

[@dianethulin1700]

I’m so glad your experience with the blessing turned out okay. It seems like there should be someone else in the room in the case of people who were to have bad intentions

[@allychristiansen]

For sure! I didn't want to ruin the story narrative by jumping in with my current perspective on all the past experiences, but when I look back at that now it creeps the hell out of me.

[@dianethulin1700]

@@allychristiansen Yes we all get wiser. Can’t believe how many cringe moments I have had

[@katliese]

Absolutely!!

[@ScottBub]

I’m actually really curious to see his point of view. If she doesn’t want to share cake and he does and he just keeps getting shot down again and again to where there isn’t some balance between them to the point where he is getting stepped on. I am trying to understand how I think about this… if one person doesn’t want to participate then it should never be done. On the other hand if she says no 90% of the time then that means his needs aren’t being met 90% of the time and he’s not getting his own personal fulfillment. That would seem like an unfair balance in a marriage or relationship. It’s such a struggle to understand if there is unbalance there and meeting both of theirs wants and needs from the relationship. But again, consent is ALWAYS required. I don’t think this is terrible, but it could be a deal breaker for many. I’d like to know how upsetting it is to him or how much it effects him.

[@gracenurse3365]

I’d feel really devalued if my partner didn’t find me attractive. Not to mention giving up a sex life forever - -

[@feliciacervantez1867]

I relate to her story, especially about her young women journey, so muuuuuuuuch. It was always hard because I felt like it was a job. I like what you said John about not being my authentic self but what would be the best for other people and for the system, which I never could achieve fully because my family wasn't a full member family, it was just me and my mom who were going to church, my dad never did, and that always put a discolor on me and my family, I was also best friends (from 2) with the bishops daughter, and I was brown, there were only 3 of us who were different races.

[@spunkycat6144]

Perfectionism 2:12 is something that is SO BIG for women that in Celebrate Recovery groups, that is one of the things you can have. Example, someone who suffers from self hatred, would say, hey this is my issue and this is what I do...something haters do to themselves (negative self talk). Get a chip and cut that behavior off. *Perfectionism is in the same boat and they would say how they worked on it that week (instead of being perfect this is what happened).

[@estelleellis4976]

Margi makes the show fresh with her insight

[@robmullin1128]

I cried every time she cried,I could feel it the emotion behind what she was saying. I hope she finds true peace in the the true Jesus,who shows us grace and mercy and knows we could never be perfect in our human condition.

[@lj9524]

Wowza! This young woman has suffered so needlessly. 💔

[@spunkycat6144]

He nailed it. It's about performance and conformity. I have often wondered (during sacrament in the LDS church if anyone in that whole building has every even sinned ever in their whole lives. Then you go to a regular church and people are sobbing during sacrament because they know they are sinners and have sin habits or have sinned period. So sacrament is like a bath. Worship breaks the heart open and worship in the LDS church just is so monotone. It drives me nuts. Put some feeling into it. It's isn't about the right notes, it's about crying out to God. But no, everyone's perfect in that room. That is the problem is performance and conformity. Take that away and you might have some real folks with real issues. But the behavioral model sure as heck keeps folks out of trouble.

[@Indi_Waffle_Girl]

OBOE! I PLAYED OBOE TOO!!!! Orchestra (philharmonic) was the best. And band. Didn't love pep band bc I had to pretend to know how to play the baritone and tenor sax. Going from a double reed to a single and also a mouthpiece is hard!!

[@allychristiansen]

so for my first three years of high school I actually just got a plastic oboe reed and marched with that. the sound was atrocious! and it felt so sacreligious to expose my oboe to the elements '_' senior year I finally made myself learn enough of the flute that I could march with it, just to spare the oboe. Props to you for learning sax!

[@katliese]

I want Alli to know that she does indeed have an amazing partner. As do I. I am never Mormon but have had Mormon friends so I get it a little bit. I’m sure I had an unhealthy view of sexuality while growing up but probably in the opposite direction of the young lady. I want her to know that your sexuality changes through life. It ebbs and flows. I am currently in menopause and I am bewildered with the lack of interest in sex. Thankfully my husband is so patient and understanding. I know I will come around again but for now it’s not on my mind. I’m so happy that Alli chose a great partner to traverse life with. I always visualized me and my husband growing old together and whatever that will bring for us I know we will do it with love and laughter. Also!!! Absolutely nothing inappropriate with self pleasuring!! It helps us through tough times. Much love and good thoughts to you all. ❤️

[@bradlee9834]

All I can say is I'm sorry. That religion puts so much weight on a person they have to be perfect and if they aren't they feel worthless. So thankful to God I dropped the overbearing LDS weight off my back. I no longer feel I have to check the boxes and am so happy for that.

[@victoriachristian4379]

Do I love Margi? Yes. Yes I do.

[@jenfnp]

I can see how a personality that is inherently focused on perfection can be harmed by the Mormon focus on perfection.

[@rmisionero]

Wow, watching this was surreal for me. You can tell that she still has a bit of the Mormon indoctrination of crying when something like a testimony comes around. I think in the back in her mind, she wishes it were true and that she can come back. I say that because I feel that way. I wish the LDS church was true. But, after being atheist, you kinda start seeing holes in the doctrine, in the history, in culture, and in the organization itself. If the LDS were ever true, it had long since apostatized. That being said, like her, my desire is not to convince anyone from leaving the church. I do not want to be that person, again, mormon indoctrination that leading people from the church would earn me God's wrath, and the fact that I never formally left the church, because maybe, one day, I will wise up, and come back.

[@Geoplanetjane]

I can relate abt being the best at everything

[@tlcmeans]

Pefectionisum is Devastating

[@garysmith1863]

What’s the music credit for the music playing during the countdown screen. Good schtuff.

[@LordOnyx09]

I hate/ated primary. I probably spent more time being kicked out & sent to be with my dad more than actually being in primary.

[@allychristiansen]

what a legacy

[@LordOnyx09]

@@allychristiansen Thank you :) As much as the church spouts off & teaches about free will/agency they sure like to try to force/coerce youth & people into doing things they don't want to do. Then they get angry & punish you in various ways if you won't submit. So yes, it is quite a legacy :-)

[@luannwinters9345]

So I am wondering if her husband’s patriarchal blessing said what her patriarchal blessing said it would.

[@zachchristiansen]

I’m her husband, and no, my patriarchal blessing didn’t say anything her blessing said it would. We had a week of freaking out while she tried to accept that her professor was full of shit😂 This was a few years before the faith crisis so it was hard to reconcile the blessings.

[@mormonstories]

Great question! We'll pass this along and see if she can tell us.

[@allychristiansen]

@@mormonstories Actually nope, my husband's blessing did not match what that professor said it would say. It definitely freaked me out when I realized it!

[@weir_family]

Maybe another year out would have been better for this interview.

[@mormonstories]

Sometimes there are things we can capture when things are still fresh and new that get lost with time. I'm grateful Ally was willing to share with us at this point in her journey. Thanks for watching! Hopefully we can get an update a year from now and see how Ally is doing.

[@lsun5322]

@@mormonstories I’ve loved some of the update shows you’ve done lately, especially with Sam and Tanner! I’d love to see an update from this wonderful woman in a few years, I’m sure Ally will be doing some great things!

[@weir_family]

@@mormonstories Update shows are the best, hopefully she'll be able/ willing!

[@Grannygirl]

Let her talk!!!

[@katliese]

Christian’s also tell women to be available and ready to prevent wandering. 😲

[@shivapazoki1881]

The audacity of asking young people to invest/waste 2 of the best years of their lives doing the bidding for an organisaiton worth mulit Bilion dolors and PAY FOR IT TOO! i

[@kellydaniels5594]

John, I love this podcast and your perspective, but it kinda makes me feel icky when you say things like "you mentioned all the bad things, but were there any good things?". In my mind it's analogous to bishops asking if they came during their assault. If someone wants to bring up good this, let them. But asking people to find something good in their trauma can be really hurtful. In this interview they handled it well, but a lot of times in interviews I see your guests getting really uncomfortable at the question.

[@mormonstories]

Thx for the feedback Kelly.

[@itsemeinin]

I’m listening to her list all the things she did in HS and I’m worn out. Have to wonder why her parents allowed her to do so much and didn’t notice. I guess they thought she was just driven.

[@mellisagreen7801]

It is heartbreaking the damage the church does. Teaching it is a man"s duty to get his family to heaven and that your relationship with family and others should be dependent on their standing and belief in the church is so wrong. The church teaches so much hate. You are taught only to love those who believe what you believe, look the way you look, dress the way you dress, talk the way you talk etc. Yet they say their God loves uncondtionally. I felt so sad when she said she didn't like her mission clothes but got them because she thought that is what God wants.

[@fayette202]

I don’t believe I heard the word “grace” in this entire interview. Apparently it’s just not in the Mormon or ex-Mormon vocabulary.

[@lisatakeitorleaveit]

Si heartbreaking 💔

[@yeshalloween]

I recommend listening to this at 1.5x speed

[@tiffanijohnson611]

Are you related to Rik Finlayson? Rare name 😊

[@allychristiansen]

As far as I'm aware I'm not related to the Finlaysons. It's a cool name though!

[@redperk]

Terrible Cult - absolutely delusional

[@aaronhawkins1541]

❤

[@v.loveslaughter1968]

I like Margie

[@jsmith591991]

Reminds me of Isaiah. this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon: Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall.

[@cartergomez5390]

It's sad how they abuse kids in the Mormon church 😢