Stuart Phillips, PhD, on Building Muscle with Resistance Exercise and Reassessing Protein Intake

[@FoundMyFitness]

Get this episode's show notes www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/stuart-phillips 00:00:00 - In this episode 00:00:40 - Start of interview 00:01:31 - Why muscle is important for longevity 00:08:49 - Is the importance of muscle mass (per se) overstated? 00:11:03 - Is the RDA on protein too low? 00:13:18 - Minimum vs. optimal protein intake (for athletes) 00:13:54 - Why older adults need more protein 00:19:07 - Caloric restriction vs. higher protein for aging 00:22:20 - What is a catabolic crisis? 00:24:05 - Effects of space flight on muscle 00:30:32 - Practical tips for protein intake 00:33:51 - Protein timing and the anabolic window 00:35:44 - Most important factors for hypertrophy 00:38:14 - Should we supplement leucine? 00:40:03 - Does plant protein support hypertrophy? 00:50:48 - Causes of anabolic resistance 00:52:40 - What types of exercise and how much? 01:01:14 - Protein and rest as tools for recovery 01:02:32 - Mechanisms of muscle protein synthesis and breakdown 01:02:50 - Does rapamycin inhibit hypertrophy? 01:07:26 - What is Dr. Phillips doing to age well? 01:09:44 - Hormonal responses to exercise 01:11:34 - Sex differences in hypertrophy 01:13:57 - Effect of menopause on muscle 01:14:22 - Do testosterone boosters work? 01:16:15 - Does growth hormone improve muscle? 01:20:50 - Androgen replacement therapy (benefits vs. drawbacks) 01:25:36 - Mental health benefits of exercise 01:26:15 - Anti-catabolic effects of heat 01:32:39 - Molecular causes of sarcopenia 01:36:56 - Anti-catabolic effects of omega-3 01:43:17 - Brain and muscle effects of creatine Thanks for listening!

[@paulrybarczyk5013]

I really love your channel! Related to this topic, it would be very interesting to see an interview with Dr Jeffrey Life. He's written three great books about the aging-influence of nutrition, cardio, strength training, and hormone levels. He calls his guidelines "The Life Plan", and says it has extended his personal lifespan (so far) about 20 years. I think he's about 80 now. Thanks!

[@JamesSplaine]

Regarding: 00:33:51 - Protein timing and the anabolic window. It seems that Dr. Phillips doesn't think that eating protein after a workout is especially important? The "Anabolic window" is all day?

[@FoundMyFitness]

@@JamesSplaine That was my general take from the conversation. That it's a lower priority factor, overall.

[@FrogmortonHotchkiss]

@@FoundMyFitness Did you come away from this conversation with greater misgivings about Valter Longo's fasting protocols? My own take is that his personal once-yearly fast would do more good than harm and have no measurable effect on muscle... For those with serious weight to lose, and autoimmune disorders to address, their priorities legitimately pull them away from a muscle-optimisation focus. Longo recommends people in these groups do a 5-day FMD once per month, and they can still work on their muscle and strength to a significant degree. So I don't see a conflict between sets of ideas here, just individual considerations.

[@treatforlife5013]

Thank you:)

[@wocket42]

Can we please all appreciate the effort that was made to put all the study references in the lower part of the video including highlighting the important sentences? Just fantastic!

[@naterussell4131]

I've always thought this! Must be a full time job on its own

[@FoundMyFitness]

Thank you! It's a team effort. We also try to redistribute the insights as a result of the process throughout show notes, etc. One thing we give members access to is the entire back catalog of the study quotes and insights for *all* interviews on the member dashboard. If you're a member, check them out in the member library: www.foundmyfitness.com/dashboard/library

[@JeffG-922]

Great point

[@CrumbleLives]

Here here!

[@icecubejenny]

agreed. this is so informative and easy for me to avoid young athletic info and go straight to the link for seniors

[@Mark_Wheeler]

Dr. Patrick, your videos are probably the most info-packed videos on KZbin. I learn so much by watching, but I usually have to watch them a second time because there is so much to absorb. Thank you for putting in the effort to bring us these high quality videos.

[@mikecar52]

I hate me toos. But, me too. I often need to watch her videos 2 or more times. Logically I should write notes. Easy enough to do with her transcripts.

[@colinmegson7721]

I'll be 84 in September and consider myself exceptionally fit, mainly due to 'tripping over' the dangers of sarcopenia and taking up resistance exercising about 7 or 8 years ago. I started by going to the gym 2 or 3 times per week and found it quite a time consuming chore. So about 3 years ago I got myself a couple of 10 kg dumbells and a couple of 5 kg dumbells and worked our an exercise programme at home. Including calisthenics, I've ended up with 19 exercises covering all muscle groups and have made a 'Matrix Sheet' to make sure I do all of the exercises before I start over again. I do 2 or 3 exercises per night but, through missing some nights for a variety of reasons, it takes me between 1 to 2 weeks to complete the full 'course'. I'm describing this 'technique' because it works for me and may work for others who also find gym sessions a bit daunting. I link a 'picture' of my 'Matrix Sheet' which carries my own shorthand of the exercise names. I print off a copy and as I go through them, I mark off each 'box' with a big 'X' and put in start and finish dates for the whole 'routine'. I hope some find this 'technique' useful: medium.com/p/8072ead29b2b/edit

[@naijaman6639]

Well done. This is highly commendable.

[@fugglestick]

Many thanks. I've been looking for something like this for ages..👍👍👍🥃

[@fonpol4925]

Well done and thanks for sharing

[@anniexavier7406]

Awesome!! Thank you!

[@anshulrajkaushal]

Dear Colin, you have mentioned your exercises as Squats (3x34), Calves (3x68), etc, what do these 34 and 68 mean?

[@N00pe731]

Immediately sent this to my mom and dad, 73 and 76 respectively. Both have experienced significant weight loss and my dad in particular, sarcopenia, over the last decade. I've got my dad drinking whey protein shakes daily and working on getting my mom to do the same. Great info, thank you!

[@RKDTOO]

How long has he been drinking whey protein? Did you/he notice any improvement?

[@bryant475]

"Complement protein" is a much better option, plant based and no filler ingredients! Whey protein -> animal protein -> mTOR -> IGF-1 -> cancer growth!

[@RKDTOO]

@@bryant475 in the case of someone developing cancer because of whey protein how long in your opinion it will take for cancer to develop after the person starts to regularly ingest whey protein supplements? I e.: Is it a concern for someone 85 yo?

[@pamelasaba7885]

Great idea, just please check all the ingredients of the protein shakes. Most of them has nasty stuffs on it.

[@murraymcgregor7829]

This is inspiring! I wish I could help turn my parents health around but they only listen to their lying doctor who has got them on statins and eating low protein, low fat, low salt. Such a nightmare. They are fat and do a lot of cardio.

[@24carrotgold8]

I woke up one day with a "disuse" injury. My left hip was in so much pain I could not walk without excruciating pain. After months of research I stumbled upon "dead butt syndrome ". I had heard of glutes, but didn't know there were maximus, medius and minimus glutes. Their only function is to support the hips. So I did simple butt isometrics and after a few days of painful awakening all hip pain disappeared. Old people need to be informed of this simple procedure. Their dead butts are causing avoidable hip injuries and perpetuating a sedentary lifestyle. 🤗👍🥳

[@anotheryoutuber_]

...a body in motion stays in motion, a body at rest stays at rest...

[@jamiehayes6714]

When you get into a car always put "bum in first". This will reduce irritation on the left hip caused by putting right leg in, sitting and then left leg. In Australia where we drive on the left, our right hand side drivers position mean that we get hip pain in right hip. The advice is the same "bum in first".Try it.

[@ralphacosta4726]

Good job, finding a simple solution. When something goes wrong with me, i try to find a simple solution first, though i don't hesitate to go to a dr. or even emergency room if i feel it's necessary. But simple solutions first.

[@haveaniceday7950]

What butt isometrics did you do?

[@24carrotgold8]

@@haveaniceday7950 Sit near the front edge of a chair with feet facing forward about a foot apart. Place something between the knees, a pillow, your fists anything to push against. Squeeze the knees together and simultaneously tighten the butt muscles and hold for several seconds and release. Repeat a few times, rest and do it again a few times throughout the day. If done correctly awakened butt muscles will hurt, but hip pain will diminish and walking will be restored. It may take several days, but is worth the discomfort. 🚶‍♂️🚶‍♀️🚶🚶‍♂️🚶‍♀️👍

[@rwh4114]

It's refreshing to get insightful and dependable information from respected sources free of an agenda.

[@Amelia.A.T.]

This is one of those interviews that I will be going back to again soon, and then again months from now, in order to get the most out of it. Really worthwhile! The notes are fantastic and really add to the video, especially with regard to finding more in depth info about a particular topic. Great!

[@MrLemonbaby]

I agree. Dr. Rhonda always does a good job with interesting interviews.

[@godtenderlovingcare]

Love

[@sallywolfe535]

74 yr old retired md on plant based (whole) for ten years. I exercise aerobically and weights (5 days weekly). I doubt if my protein intake exceeds 0.8gm/kg yet I’m as strong as I was in my 30s. Sarcopenia requires more protein, but without resistive exercise diet will not matter. High protein intake has other effects: hyper filtration and eventual renal disease, stimulating mTOR, increased IGF-1--latter two increasing malignant growth, and increased TMA-O leading to ASVD (branched chain AA and methionine). The biggest deficit in the first world is lack of fiber (veggies and fruit) affecting the micro biome, DM2, dementia, inflammation, inanition, and the typical 10 year plunge in QOL before a slow painful expensive death. I did not hear of specific research that would change my approach to health and long life.

[@robtmjh]

Thanks for bring out the increased incidence of ESRD in the recent years. My thoughts exactly.

[@lightdark00]

Exactly, the science for plant-baaed is lacking. Low protein building and increasing muscles is possible without the inflammation.

[@raffaelecorrente1123]

Read José Antonio's researches. High proteine diets improbe renale filtration and health in health subjects.

[@deanpaulson6714]

The IGF , and mTOR studies are generally cherry picked minimalist studies ( normally funded by special interest ) infact high insulin from carbs is probably the major contributing factor ! Re the " health " benefits in fruits and veg plenty of contradictory results re the dangers of oxalates and fiber ! From joint and kidney problems to gastric irritation ! The biggest decline in first world health ? A lack of fiber 🤣🤣 it's not the amount of sugars and processed veg oils consumed? Interesting 😀 Sorry the vegan studies are weak at best ! It's strange you can almost pin point the west's decline in health from the Pont of cutting animals fats and protein in the early 80s through to the present 😀so that never worked out well

[@lightdark00]

@@deanpaulson6714 There's no danger from fiber, it's doesn't even enter the blood. It just makes you 💩 better. The 80s really marks the change from mostly home cooking from scratch, to processed foods, fast foods, and excess everything. Take a look at the obese population in 1980 and now.

[@BodyworksPrime]

Really well thought out questions for this interview. A lot of them were questions I would have loved to have asked for Stuart's opinion on if I met him myself. Thanks for sharing this interview with us all.

[@colinglen4505]

Yeah, Doc Rhonda really does ask the questions that we would ask. :)

[@ralphacosta4726]

Good job as usual, Dr. Rhonda. I appreciate all the work you do and how clearly you lay out the info.

[@jicudi]

This was a phenomenally dense offering of useful, actionable information. Well done.

[@vitalrestandrecoveryclinic7752]

I was a competitive bodybuilder w my pro card. Switched to plant based 3 yrs ago. No lab proteins, No hormones and my body looks exactly the same

[@jackbuaer3828]

The same for me too (in terms of body looking the same and stregnth being the same after going vegetarian). I did / do take citrulline. (I am guessing that's made in a lab.) Also, I was never a fitness competitor. There may be a difference between men and women though here. Perhaps male bodybuilders are looking for maximum hypertrophy and perhaps that's not the case for most women. So it could be that maximum muscle growth / power / speed is easier to obtain with animal products. That's a theory of mine. I still think one could get pretty good results with the right plant based diet, supplements and routine though. Kendrick Farris, the former vegan Olympic weightlifter, and only American male to qualify for the 2016 Olympics in weightlifting, would probably disagree with at least my theory on power and speed.

[@Joseph1NJ]

@ty Ty OK meat head, prove it. Show me a single *credible* study that shows plant protein is inferior to animal protein for anything; health, longevity, sports performance, etc.

[@bryant475]

Yep, plant protein for the win! Animal protein -> mTOR -> IGF-1 -> Cancer growth!

[@godtenderlovingcare]

[@karinberryman2009]

The majority of people who were brought into ICU with CV were almost sentenced to disuse. Independence is the greatest benefit of maintaining fitness!

[@viveviveka2651]

One thing I wanted to add: Many people separate resistance exercise and aerobic exercise. I used to do this too, but recently made the very useful, surprising, and pleasant discovery that they can be fused or combined into one. An example: doing circuits of squats, pushups and pullups can really get your heart rate up and going, and at the same time provide excellent resistance training. There are other examples and possibilities as well. Burpees and burpee variations [there are some good ones, along with pushup variations (there are many, including right here on YT, and they can be incorporated into burpees, or they can be done alone)] can also be excellent, and they can be part of a circuit that includes pullups, chinups or both, among other exercises. They can be tailored and assisted appropriately for the individual. They can also be weighted appropriately for those who are at that level. I find resistance-exercise circuits to be an enjoyable and efficient, combined way of getting the aerobic or cardio exercise. A cardiologist told me that high intensity intervals strengthen the heart. Hill sprints are another form of exercise that works for me. Also cycling up hills. And climbing up steep mountains.

[@BradleyCTurner]

Yeah supersetting or giants sets are what you used, they can be super challenging for the cardio system, and supersetting antagonist or muscles elsewhere such as a push up, then pullup, or a squat then an overhead press, can lead to little performance drop as far as hypertrophy goes, taxes your cardio system, and saves time in the gym.

[@theironforce3000]

Excellent episode ! Glad to see Dr. Stuart getting more limelight on more more ( large) platforms . I love his simple easily to digest approach to the wide protein spectrum Field . All without the technical jargon. Appreciate the time stamps !

[@morgannrussell5690]

As always Ive found a lot of words here. I think it would be encouraging to point out that what you do after you're 60 or 50 or 30 is more important than what you did before. There was a body builder named Michael that died recently because he was dieting. So here's the point. An activity that you are not going to be able to continue past 70 may not be a good activity to engage in. The catabolic dissolution of massive muscles is a destructive activity that is not health promoting. I am not a Doctor, thank God, but it is good to learn about how the body works.

[@butterflywings8332]

Thank you for this fantastic interview Dr. Patrick. So much conflicting information out there about protein causing cancer. Please could you do a video explaining the research? It’s so hard to know what to believe 🤯

[@XeNos3131]

Believe in her!! She is genuine and above all knowledgeable! If you are not a researcher you would still not understand what they are writing.

[@ElizabethMillerTX]

I'll be watching this more than once and referring back to the resources. Thanks so much for all the effort that went into this.

[@godtenderlovingcare]

[@danfg7215]

This interview is awesome. My 80 year old dad's physical condition has degraded a lot in the past two years because of the pandemic restrictions, I've convinced him to take creatine and we're doing some light weightlifting. Now I'll definitely add some whey protein in the morning and after workouts to help counter any muscle loss.

[@aubreyvandyne5284]

The estimated average protein requirement intake originally is estimated to be at .66 but the deviated standard is to raise it two notches up because it ensures everybody. Better to be a bit over than under. Meaning .8 was calculated a little high to play it safe. Excessive protein taxes each cell by making it sluggish and stickier than it otherwise would be. Excessive protein leads to deformed cell growth and overweight people as well. Everybody in america eats two times the protein they should be eating and in america we have the most cancers and some are not known anywhere else in the world.

[@antoniaz]

Best interview with Stuart Phillips on the Internet. Thank you!

[@zenpig6605]

Great video. I have to comment on Dr. Stuart Phillips's view of protein requirements vs. my diet as I get older, (I am pushing 70). I lift heavy weights twice a week, and run/hike/climb 25 miles a week. When I lift weights, my body tells me that it wants more protein, and fats, and salt, and I give my body what it wants at that time. I respect my body's needs/ But most of the week, I eat 6 to 8 fruits and vegetables a day, low'ish carbohydrate, (about 70 grams per day), and around 60 grams of protein. but the resistance training twice a week makes my body crave mostly fats and electrolytes. Models and data are great, but we have to balance it with the synergistic intuitive need of our body and listen. just my old man 2 cents. (by the way, I do 3 day water only fast every 6 weeks) cheers

[@motorbreath22]

Saw your comment, how is your muscle mass compared to when you were younger, do you have to lift more than when younger or does lifting normally keeps you at a great maintenance level with strength and muscle mass ?

[@zenpig6605]

@@motorbreath22 No, I lift about 50 percent of what i lifted as a young man,. Most of this is because , if i damage connective tissue, i.e., joints etc., it takes me months to recover as opposed to a week when I was young.. With that said, I am still stronger than the common 20 or 30 year old on the street. Of course young Gym rats would kick my ass. :)

[@lightdark00]

Your body tells you? Are you sure? Protein is only noticed if it takes too long to recover after a big workout. Salt and fats? weird.

[@zenpig6605]

@@lightdark00 IMO. nothing wrong with salt, fats, beer, even an occasional cigar. its all about moderation, balance, eating a good natural diet and being active, and enjoying life. cheers

[@lightdark00]

@@zenpig6605 You can enjoy life without trashing your body.

[@sabincioflec8413]

I think there are things that were not addressed here like: 1.The importance of the microbiome and fat or mass partitioning of the calories. 2.Ketones as protein sparing and my opinion is that if have high enough you can bring down your protein requirements a lot! If i remember right Tim Ferris did a 10day fast with walking and didn't lose any muscle mass so the whole brick metaphor goes out the window. I think the more stressors you have ( glucose, fructose, toxins, heavy metals ) the more your bricks get damaged and need to be replaced. If you don't damage them then the body needs less protein or uses the protein it gets for new muscle. 3.Also protein in protein out doesn't address the exogenous testosterone studies where people build more muscle even without more nutrition or exercise compared to the normal feeding+exercise group.

[@lynnecobb9399]

My husband and I...both in our 60s, exercise upper body Monday and Thursday. Then lower body Tuesday and Friday. Recovery days are Weds, Sat, and Sunday.

[@godtenderlovingcare]

[@mikelugo8983]

Very nice

[@maillardsbearcat]

Nice, bro science from a trusted source

[@bernardlowe5465]

I think the effect of strength training on longevity and health are vastly understated in the literature because of the horribly ineffective strength training protocols they use in the studies. To be fair most people go to the gym and participate in horribly ineffective workout programs so the research is probably an accurate representation of the benefits those people will get but its far from what they COULD be getting with better training regiments

[@rogerdrummer4480]

Right on. I'm 67. I went to the gym and worked out for 1 and a half hours3x a week for over ten years. Never got stronger, always hurt my joints. I bought an X3 home unit, changed my diet to high protein, and gained 16 lbs of lean muscle in 7 months-all verified through Dexa scans. All in 15 minutes a day. I'll never go back to the gym even though the scenery is better than in my kitchen.

[@jamiehayes6714]

Agree 100%

[@seansletters]

What is an example of a better training regimen?

[@rdy2run332]

@@seansletters high intensity training with weights doing squats deadlifts benchpress shoulder press

[@jamiehayes6714]

"Lift until you're pretty fatigued at the end." is great advice. Here's some simple gym program tips. Just 5 exercises, with one set each covers most of the body: Leg Press (or squat) for lower body. Chest press (pushing), seated row (pulling), overhead shoulder press (pushing) and pull down (pulling) will cover all major muscles. These can all be done with the safety of pin-loaded machines. Choose a weight that's light enough that you can keep it going (with slow controlled continuous movement) for at least 60 seconds. Keep going until you hit the greatest fatigue you can tolerate. On any exercise where you can go 120 seconds or longer, put up the weight a little (say 5%) on your next session. Keep a record of every exercise so you have something to aim for. If with each rep you lift for 5 seconds and lower for 5 seconds, that will equate to jut 6 to 12 reps. (Muscles can't count reps. They only recognise and respond to the effort you make on the last rep of each exercise = adaptive stimulus). Doing them slow protects your joints and ligaments from strain. Doing this one-set, super-slow, time-efficient 15 minute routine just once a week will increase strength. Twice is better, and three times may be even better still. Just 15 minutes! My 74 year old mum started this program twice a week. In 6 months she doubled her strength on all exercises. On lower body, she tripled her strength. Most gyms and trainers can set this up for you.

[@robinporter6513]

Great advice, sounds pretty much like Doug McGuff's "Body by Science" which is what I try to follow

[@hUgO6191]

What about hamstrings and glutes? Seems that they are not worked with these exercises

[@jamiehayes6714]

@@hUgO6191 the prescription I shared is all about min effective dose to hit most muscles in min time. Of course people could add more if they wish to.

[@GodfreyMann]

The problem with cooking beans the way he suggests here (44:55) is it will increase the glycemic index of those starchy beans. So sure on the one hand it may make the proteins more bio available but on the other hand you’ll trash your glycemic control.

[@GodfreyMann]

@@retropygmy but that’s exactly my point the fibre only works to keep the glycemic index low if the cell walls (made of fibre) remain more intact. Once you boil the the way he’s suggesting those cells will more readily release their starches.

[@appearance8932]

Same for “processing” to increase the protein quality. Nope, rejected. This is a bit of a disappointment that Dr. Patrick does not call out/drill into this.

[@RobsGr8Land]

Love the brilliance you bring to our lives!

[@pathologicaldoubt]

Rhonda, I experienced prolonged, chronic tendinitis and inflammation from Cipro (I’m 6 years out now, I was prescribed Cipro at age 25). Taking up to 6g of fish oil daily is absolutely essential for me to temper my chronic inflammation.

[@Katana_00]

How much cipro did you take?

[@pathologicaldoubt]

@@Katana_00 I was on a prolonged course of cipro for (suspected) chronic prostatitis. I was 3 weeks into my prescribed course until my tendons felt like they were on fire

[@edwilderness]

You might want to take EPA and DHA specifically as Rhonda does. Carlson on Amazon have EPA in 1 gram capsules and DHA in 500 mg capsules. I take 2 grams of each every day although I don't have any specific need for them.

[@deeb3077]

I believe you. My neighbor had problems walking she feels from cipro. I have problems from levaquin, generic is called levoflaxcin ciprofloxacin is generic for cipro.

[@christopherellis2663]

A clear and comprehensive analysis. Thank very much! So many holes in the road to better health, best to follow the path blazed by Nature: work, eat, move, sleep.

[@surrealchemist]

I was just thinking to ask about some of these topics in one of the Q&A type things, so this is good timing. I’m in my early 40s and making an effort to work out more for health and I want to lean down. Started supplementing with creatine to help my workouts. Got off a good amount of fat years ago from time restricted eating so this is the next step. I think it helps my mood and sleep anyway, so its worth it for that alone.

[@jamiehayes6714]

When during the day do you take creatine and how much?

[@iliketraps9190]

thank you thank you thank you for showing all the papers at the bottom of the screen it has made starting research for this topic so much easier than it would have been otherwise

[@grashoprsmith]

I never miss an episode! Great as always!

[@Amanda-jb3ys]

A very well done and organized interview. Thank you!

[@godtenderlovingcare]

[@agnezaliene203]

Absolutely incredible interview. Thank you for motivation to work out. I mean Thank you very much💕💕💕

[@mikecar52]

Your notes are superb but so are your questions. Thank you Rhonda.

[@keitranvirgil223]

Lower Body strength improves blood circulation , those limbs are the furthest from the heart, and carry the largest muscles groups. If you can keep the strength , flexibility , and sense of balance in your lower body as you age, you take a huge load off your heart. example older Tae Kwon Do instructors....

[@tatywork9126]

Sinclair and Longo advocate lower protein consumption because of mTOR. sometimes science is confusing.

[@arhu74]

Lab mice don't die from frailty, humans actually do and it's an important cause of death for us: break your hip and when you are older and you have a big chance of dying within a year

[@tatywork9126]

@@arhu74 treu, but arriving at old age when we become really frail is already an achievement. it would be useful to understand how not to get cancer in between and actually become old enough to be worried about this kind of thing. :D

[@bhansen52]

Always happy to see a new Dr Rhonda. Feel indebted for all the insane amount of research. And the willingness to share with us non scientists. Cheers Rhonda

[@sabastianswika-post1819]

The question is not what extends lifespan, rather, what shortens it? In the case of modern diseases, most of them are caused by dietary excess. It’s not a matter of getting more or less of one nutrient as there are thousands. The way to extend lifespan is to create an environment of micronutrient excellence in the context of moderate caloric restriction.

[@erinrozanski5013]

What a great conversation. I only caught the first part, bit Dr. Patrick zeroed right in on the question I have about protein, e.g. I've heard from the fasting peeps that we already get enough protein (if meat eaters) and protein is not all that great, so I was wondering how this guy's research compares with that view. So glad she asked that question. Anecdotally, I feel a lot better just upping my protein a bit, especially if I go for a run. I think, keeping it simple, listening to one's body is important in this regard. I likely was not getting enough protein given that I feel a lot better woth more - not to mention that it is way easier to add muscle.

[@FoundMyFitness]

Since you only caught the first part, make sure to grab the Apple Podcasts or Spotify episode to listen while you're on the go! Thank you for listening... podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/foundmyfitness/id818198322 open.spotify.com/show/5QjpaU0o1Q2MkVZwwG3y7d

[@startingtoday4663]

Great interview Dr. Patrick But I think the recommendation of 1.2 grams per KG is misleading. i.e. someone with a 40 BMI shouldn't required twice as much protean compared to someone with a person with a 20 BMI. So shouldn't the KG denominator be based on lean mass only ?

[@uNsT0p4b1e]

Calculating daily protein intake by using only lean mass is definitely the ideal. However, most people aren't able or willing to get a DEXA scan to find out how much lean mass they truly have

[@startingtoday4663]

@@uNsT0p4b1e thanks for your reply and I agree with your point but I would "feel better" about this talk if Dr. Philips had at least made this distinction. As it is, morbidity obese people listening to talk will now be encouraged to eat hundreds of additional calories in order to get more protein....that they don't actually need.

[@jamiehayes6714]

great point

[@sexualgladiator]

For people who wish to gain or lose mass it's better to calculate the daily amount of protein required for IDEAL body weight.

[@startingtoday4663]

@@sexualgladiator agree, and thanks for your reply

[@craiglaughlin6794]

Hi Dr. Rhonda, I've messaged you before to encourage you to look into Blood Flow Restriction training and therapy, and would love to engage with you on the topic. I'm 72 years old and a competitive volleyball player (I've won numerous gold, silver, and bronze medals at USA Volleyball Open Nationals, and the National Sr. Games in my age group over the last 22 years). By adding BFR to the exact same exercises I've done for decades, but with much lighter weights, I increased my vertical leap by 7 3/4" in just five months. I also improved numerous biomarkers of aging, such as resting pulse rate, % body fat, blood pressure, etc. - they were all good to begin with, but are even better now. At 32:20 of this presentation, you show a footnote describing how anabolic resistance makes it harder for older adults to maintain muscle mass. Well, in my case, in just 5 months, I added an inch to my biceps by lifting 4 - 8 lbs. with BFR. In 20+ years of going to the gym and doing biceps curls with 25 to 35 lbs. I never gained any biceps muscle mass. This study by the European Review of Aging and Physical Activity explains how BFR could be the key to overcoming the anabolic resistance you and Dr. Philips discuss: eurapa.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s11556-022-00294-0 The four minute video at this link gives a brief overview of BFR, and the website contains numerous links to various studies published by the NIH, Harvard Medical School, and other reputable institutions confirming the "too good to be true" benefits of exercising, or rehabbing, with BFR. my.b3sciences.com Please reply to this comment if you are open to learning more, or message me on Facebook.

[@orion9k]

Could someone please direct me regarding bones loss and bone gain, also at what age it's too late to gain bone mass?

[@thku4grace]

What I like about Stuart is he's honest about the 'science'. Far too many overeducated people develop this attitude that the science is all known and here it is coming out of my mouth, but concerning anything related to the human body whether it be nutrition, disease, effects of resistance training, etc... we have a fallible body of knowledge. The reasons for this is the body is complex to say the least. We have ever-changing hormones that can enhance or throw a wrench into any plan. What's more is even when we know something to be likely true, we don't always know why.

[@robinporter6513]

Great interview. But I'm now confused about protein consumption, as David Sinclair (in "Lifespan") advocates a lower protein diet for longetivity, as too much protein activates mTOR which accelerates ageing. Dilemma 🤔

[@jackbuaer3828]

The one key thing that appears to be missing in this video/ discussion is findings on all cause mortality levels and protein level consumption. What I would like to know is if Dr. Phillips has different findings than Dr. Longo in this area.

[@stuartphillips8181]

When you look, in totality at the evidence, it's pretty mixed. High(er) protein is not associated, consistently, with higher mortality.

[@jackbuaer3828]

@@stuartphillips8181 Thanks for the answer! I appreciate you making your opinions and data available in this forum.

[@jackbuaer3828]

@@stuartphillips8181 Hi Dr. Phillips: Did you happen to look at this study that suggested that lower protein was associated with increased muscle mass in older adult. It's just one study and the people probably were not clearly on a resistance training program. So maybe the study is inapplicable to people that resistance train? "There was no significant association between muscle strength and protein intake one way or another. However, protein intake below the ESPEN recommendations was, to the researchers’ surprise, significantly correlated with a reduced incidence of low muscle mass and sarcopenia. Similarly, protein intake in excess of the ESPEN recommendations was correlated with a greater risk of low muscle mass and sarcopenia. These results were confirmed when twins were examined against one another. Shared twin factors, such as genetics and early life history, did not meaningfully change the statistical relationship between protein intake and sarcopenia. Other multivariable analysis models also confirmed these findings." "While this study was biased towards healthy volunteers, it offers highly contrary evidence to the conventional wisdom surrounding protein and sarcopenia, and it may result in re-evaluations of ESPEN and other dietary health guidelines. This is an association study that does not prove causation, but it makes it clear that simply eating more protein is not likely to protect anyone against developing sarcopenia. Exercise may be somewhat effective in fighting back against this disease, but more fundamental biological interventions are likely to be required to prevent it for good." High Protein Intake Associated With Sarcopenia These results were the opposite of expected. Lifespan IO, Josh Conway February 22, 2023 The article commented on: Mary Ni Lochlainn, Ruth C E Bowyer, Ailsa A Welch, Kevin Whelan, Claire J Steves, Higher dietary protein intake is associated with sarcopenia in older British twins, Age and Ageing, Volume 52, Issue 2, February 2023,

[@vindictii]

It is well known that a high-protein diet induces metabolic acidosis due to acidic residues of proteins. Metabolic acidosis induced by high dietary protein increases urinary acid excretion and also increases urinary calcium and phosphate levels, which may negatively influence bone and muscle protein metabolism. Why doesn't he mention any of the health costs of high protein diets?

[@Deadbolthead]

Because there have been about 5 meta analysis studies that prove what you’re saying doesn’t happen and is incorrect vs what was previously thought.

[@lynnwilliams5432]

Had prolapse surgery at 80 yr wonderful outcome guaranteed 45 years. What worried me most inactivity so I listened to no one was out on track three days . Nothing was removed tighten ligaments and repairs in wall no web so I would recommend.

[@ikergarciaalday239]

Thank you guys! This was helpful preparing my skeletal muscle class of tomorrow. Sadly, you do not consider the topic of protein restriction as a possible thing. There is enough data to taking this more seriously.

[@laurenceatkins867]

Really interesting, always learn a lot from Dr Rhonda. However, I am confused as Valter Lungo, Satcha Panda would recommend a far lower amount of protein. Also heard excess protein intake doesn't always just leave the body as urine but some can be converted by the liver to glucose: gluconeogenisis. (sorry spelling probably wrong).

[@SteelerNationBaby]

It’s over when you give up. Mindset is the ignition to health habits. The beauty of exercise is no one can do it for you, knowing the info doesn’t make you fit. You have to put in the daily work and effort and you alone earn your results according to your consistent daily efforts.

[@NathanNelsonNJ]

I am confused by what was said at 1:05:50. If you exercise everyday is causes chronic Mtor and is not good?

[@raffaelecorrente1123]

For people above 40, both High protein diets and low calories/fasting diets are bad and good at the same time. Pulsatile high mtor Is crucial, so cyclical diets are the way to go.

[@BigPictureYT]

Rhonda, please interview Zsofia Clemens PhD of the International Center for Medical Nutritional Intervention (ICMNI). The ICMNI has done remarkable research and clinical work treating autoimmune diseases, cancer, and many of the modern chronic diseases related to metabolic syndrome. They have combined the best aspects of the Paleolithic diet and the Classic Ketogenic diet. They are getting astounding results, and they have the data to prove it. I think that you and your viewers could all enjoy learning about their research.

[@suzanneshort72]

I’m a 66 year old woman who is focusing on her protein intake for all the reasons discussed. I do heavy resistance training. Recent blood work showed an Increase in urea which was highlighted in the podcast as the way mammals get rid of extra protein. Could this mean my body is not using all the protein I’m taking in? At 63 kg I had been shooting g for > 100g a day, but at 1.2 g /kilo, maybe 75g is a better target for me. I thought that reduced protein synthesis due to aging meant increasing my daily intake. Seems like I should find the level that my body can use without having to eliminate the excess as urea.

[@CraigHocker]

At 8:20 , what did he mean by that off hand comment about bones? Did the studies of nonagenarians show a loss of the ability to add bone mass from weight bearing exercises. If so, when does that start? 70’s ? 80’s ?

[@raymondspagnuolo8222]

Well done, Rhonda! Excellent interview!

[@AbacusincInfo]

TYVM! Awesome show, priceless information.

[@makellyjt]

My guess in relationship between lower body strength and longevity includes increased vascularization in the muscles would also support circulatory benefits which would also support cardiovascular return.

[@jackbuaer3828]

Walter Longo has a completely different recommendation. This is from Walter: "If you are below the age of 65, keep protein intake low (0.31 to 0.36 grams per pound of body weight). That comes to 40 to 47 grams of proteins per day for a person weighing 130 pounds, and 60 to 70 grams of protein per day for someone weighing 200 to 220 pounds. Over age 65, you should slightly increase protein intake but also increase consumption of fish, eggs, white meat, and products derived from goats and sheep to preserve muscle mass. Consume beans, chickpeas, green peas, and other legumes as your main source of protein." After 65, Walter Longo had this to say in March 1, 2019 facebook post. "In seniors after 65 years old, a low-calorie but nutritious and high protein diet (1 g of proteins per kg) would favor a loss of excess fat and the maintenance of muscle mass and bone density. 💪🤸‍♂️ A new study confirmed what the Longevity Diet had already investigated and described! " So Dr. Longo's numbers are way lower than Dr. Phillips's numbers. I have no opinion on what's better. I am probably in between the two recommendations.

[@jackbuaer3828]

@@60-Is-The-New-30 Hi Tony. I remember you from another thread. Were you not going to post some compelling evidence to support your views? I have seen some studies going both ways. Instead of saying someone is wrong or right, it's more helpful to post data on mortality statistics and protein level consumption. Longo, at least, does do that. You should do the same to support your viewpoint.

[@jackbuaer3828]

@@60-Is-The-New-30 I don't have a fixed opinion because it seems that the video discussion entirely omitted a discussion about mortality stats. I don't recall that Dr. Phillips (the guy in the video) cited any human mortality statistics in relation to protein consumption levels in the video. Do you recall him citing any such stats? Did Dr. Phillips state that his 1.2 gram and higher per kilogram recommendation is based upon any human mortality data? We know that Longo looked into and published work in this area. I have no idea whether Dr. Phillips did the same.

[@jackbuaer3828]

@@60-Is-The-New-30 Please provide a link so I can check it out.

[@jackbuaer3828]

@@60-Is-The-New-30 I found the video. I did not finish it yet, but will finish it later. It did not seem to me that the Sardinian diet was all that high in protein based upon the blue zone pie chart you posted. I looked up and saw that a full cup of cooked barley only contains 3 grams of protein. If 47% of their diet is whole grains, I can't see how it's going to be that high in protein. Likewise if 25% of their diet based upon calories is dairy, it's also not going be a high protein contributor presuming it is full fat dairy. If Sardinians get 25% of their calories from full fat dairy, let's say 500 calories, that should give them about 32 grams of protein from dairy. With the bulk of their rest of their diet coming vegetable and whole grains and only 5% from fish, chicken and meat, I can't see how their diet would be considered to be high protein as you concluded. It looks to me to be a very reasonable diet though and to be a fairly low protein based upon the pie chart you presented.

[@jgarma]

@@60-Is-The-New-30 @jack buaer interesting tug-of-war you two are having, but what I'd like to see is a debate between Drs Valter Longo and, say, Dr. Peter Attia.

[@MorganStuartGuitar]

I love your podcast! Thank you!

[@steelcityrc133]

I was diagnosed with celiac disease last year. Building muscle mass back to pre diagnosis has been incredibly difficult. Nutrients are key. Having a damaged intestine is huge set back. Slowly healing eating gluten free. I'm 20 pounds lighter than I was and used to be very fit and strong. The United States is terrible for diagnosis autoimmune disorders. I was told for many years I just had bad anxiety....

[@lightdark00]

Did they put a camera in your intestines or they just made that guess? After six months, you might be able to add organic wheat back. At first once a month, then once a week...

[@steelcityrc133]

@@lightdark00 Blood work and camera with biopsy. Yeah no wheat for me. Doesn't matter if it's organic or not. My immune system thinks Gluten is the enemy. Even a small amount of gluten will damage the villi.

[@flanorunseyirdefteri]

3:56 Rhonda Patrick asks: "I've seen some studies that have also correlated specifically lower body... I think strength of lower body with improved cognition. Why not upper body?" Well, among the 10 largest muscles in the body, 2nd biggest muscle is "Gluteus maximus" (back pf pelvis, 760 cm3) with common functions such as hip and leg extension and flexion, while the 1st biggest muscle is "Quadriceps femoris" (lower thigh, 1,420 cm3) with common functions such as knee extension and hip flexion. If cognitive health is related to muscles (there are many scientific studies about it), then we should be careful to preserve especially our lower body muscles since they contain the largest part.

[@bradstudio]

Thanks for clearing up so many myths, this really helps.

[@mikemac9680]

Is there a limit to the amount of protein a person can digest/synthesize in one meal? Was this discussed and I missed it? There are so many numbers floating around the internet about this.

[@christopherellis2663]

Just the thing! Been working on this since May.

[@bakhita6085]

🕊️♥️🌷Thank you very much Dr. Rhonda Patrick. I love your programs. May God bless you and your love ones.🌴♥️🕊️🥰

[@deborahbaca1345]

Great discussion. Wondering if EXERCISES are effective for STRENGTHENING FACIAL MUSCLES?? Not much information on line about facial muscle growth.

[@dudeguy323]

Monday is always chest day - gym proverb

[@daveoatway6126]

It's frustrating for us older folks! I just watched a new presentation by J. Mitchell at the AGHE Fasting Congress on very low protein intake being associated with longevity. I am 77, walk 5-10 miles almost every day and do some weight lifting and body weight exercises. I do some intermittent fasting with a high protein intake. Now I am conflicted. Do you have any guidance or ideas to help resolve the conflict? Thank you for another well researched presentation!

[@Canadian-Carnivore]

What an incredible discussion! Thank you, thank you. I am not finished watching the video and I have already shared it!

[@triluve]

Adding an extra time stamp here, which I was looking for after I listened to the podcast: 50:13 per meal leucine dose for older and young ppl. thanks for the great content by the way, Rhonda. so valuable.

[@kejo_]

I listened to this after listening to Peter Attia's interview with Don Layman who is another apparent protein expert and I can't overstate how much more informative and grounded this is. Stuart Phillips speaks from an up-to-date and neutral place while providing actionable knowledge for everyone including those who are on a plant-based diet. Whereas Don Layman speaks like animal-based protein evangelist and paints a bleak picture for those who are on a plant-based diet. I was not surprised to find out that Layman was affiliated with commercial interest groups such American Egg Board, the National Dairy Council, and the National Cattleman's Beef Association. But I was surprised to see how Peter Attia neglected to mention this conflict of interest at the beginning of the interview.

[@kejo_]

I should've mentioned that what makes this interview great is also because Rhonda Patrick does an excellent job with her sharp questions.

[@vicvin64]

I'm stunned Rhonda almost said fasting isn't a panacea Stu almost said Collagen supplements are useful Progress

[@Photologistic]

Yeah, and I guess you think Hippocrates was a quack, too? 😂

[@JohnThunder]

Muscle mass is our key to longevity and our protection from aging related diseases. Go out there and exercise your body will thank you for it!

[@Cycle1001]

Very great; I think I have listened to this three times. It’s long so I go back to pick up more. 🇨🇦 ( FYI: Dr Anne Marie Fine had me listen to Rhonda’s Sauna presentation to The Arkansas Doctor’s ~ July , 2019 so I have been in the sauna at least six days a week since. Except some COVID gym closure time)

[@jamesmontgomery8249]

I keep cracking up at the thumbnail of dr Patrick when the articles pop up. Haha it’s like serious ronda crazy ronda serious ronda crazy ronda. I need a broccoli cocktail and a sauna. Good show

[@Romero610]

This interview is a wealth of extremally helpful information .

[@juliam6442]

I wish this guy had talked about the science more, rather than just give recommendations. He didn't answer the important question: if protein restriction leads to extension of lifespan and healthspan, should we be eating a lot of protein? He said that the few primate studies have been inconclusive and then launched into stories of bedridden, which was off topic. The big question to look it is whether protein helps in the short run (muscle etc.) but accelerates aging because it turns off hormesis. Leucine, for example, turns off hormesis/life extension effects of resveratrol.

[@victorlanced780]

Research citations, simple analogies and sheer amount of gold dust information. 😊

[@lynnecobb9399]

So I'm 62 years old and I've been using 1g of protein per pound of ideal body weight (ideal weight being 100 pounds for the 1st 5 ft and 5 pounds per inch after that) is this too much? I've heard so many experts use this as a guide.

[@hectordanielambrizvillalob3926]

Awesome !! Always enjoy the talks of Stu Phillips

[@clintpurches2765]

There’s a great book called Lift Fast Die Later, that addresses the paradox of down regulating growth pathways for longevity but also up regulating them to avoid sarcopenia, via a combination of fasting and resistance training. Thoroughly recommend it.

[@Bob-jv2st]

This page rocks!!!!

[@mtrichie111]

Thanks doctor. Another amazing and informative video as always. I also wanted to ask what was your major in UCSD, I know it was biochem but they switched the program multiple times since you've graduated. Im taking Biochem-Chem and so many thermodynamics classes, was that what you had to deal with ?

[@haveaniceday7950]

Have you had any classes with Dr. Daniel Sheehan?

[@tammychristian1479]

I have grown accustomed to learning and witnessing reversing of so much that could go wrong, this was discouraging. I work out but I had an adrenal functional mass and for a while was advised not to exercise, to avoid placing stress on the adrenal. I also had an injury that left me completely confused on what type of exercises to do and what not to do and one might not believe it, but it was so hard to get to good medical straight answers on this. So now, that I am on the road to complete recovery at almost 56, (very long story) I feel disheartened that I can not get a much better quality muscle mass through rebuilding as I was hoping I could.

[@helenl7967]

How does this increase in dietary protein affect people with early stage Kidney disease unrelated to Diabetes, Hypertension, Autoimmune disease. (i.e.unknown etiology). All allopathic practices suggest lower protein intake.

[@haveaniceday7950]

I would like an answer to this as well, if Dr. Ronda or anyone else has an opinion. I do know of one naturopathic Dr. Who has kidney disease Herself says that moderate protein is good and low protein diet is bad from her experience with her patients.

[@teviafeng5078]

Thank you for this. I don't get it though as I has a blood test and the doctor told me the test showed I was taking too much protein and it was taxing my kidneys. I only take 20 grams per day in addition to meat 3 times per day

[@doddfish]

Thank you for topic times ❤

[@aquamarine99911]

Great, great discussion. Pretty pedestrian for the first half, at least for someone like me who has been following this field for years. But then half-way through (talking about mTOR) it kicks into high gear and stays there to the end. It's fun to watch smart people strut their stuff. Rhonda shows a bit of insecurity about her online reputation as an "enthusiast", but she knows the right questions to ask and Stuart is one of the top guys to ask. So it's a good fit.

[@mradjamesable]

DIAAS is also a consideration when looking at Protein sources as well as ensuring there is sufficient stomach acid

[@wellnesspathforme6236]

What correlation is there between the acidity of the interstitial fluid and the ability to gain/maintain muscle mass? Energy requires electrons/energy, at it seems obvious a highly acidic interstitial fluid would compromise energy production. What happens when kidneys are compromised and causes the acid to increase even more? Does this acid cause the body to pull calcium from the bones and magnesium from the muscles making one's blood effectively "muscle acid"?

[@claudiapangan1676]

Wow this was so interesting and easy to follow!!! Thank you💚

[@martarico186]

Raw veggies are quite tough on the g- I. How good is this on the system ?

[@CoolInOlympia]

Isn't post work out recovery repair also mostly happening during sleep??? Sleep wasn't mentioned!

[@GFYYT11111]

I highly recommend Calistenics for strength & swimming resistance.

[@mikeprice4079]

I would like to know what kind of workout to ease my lower back pain, with even a little bending my back ❤muscles on either side of my back , where my kidneys kidneys are feel like they are being roped out.