SUBCLASS TIER LIST - Single Class Characters - Baldur's Gate 3 Honour Mode Guide Part 1

[@shinkamui]

I really like on your videos that you don't dismiss anything, like in a lot of tierlists people will just go ''oh trickery domain bad, rp tier'' and not even talk about why its bad, or any merits it might have despite being worse than the others so it leaves people uninformed. IMO theorycrafting and optimizing are at their best when they're in service of making the stuff you want to use not suck even if they're wonky, and your videos do that splendidly

[@benross9174]

Trickery has a really good spellist unironically. Mirror Image on a Spirit Guardians build? Fear on a meele composition, or Dimensional Door on a support character? Its genuinly good, especially early to mid game.

[@eldetpacko7401]

Trickery domain can be good for the buff if you're stacking stealth in order to abuse improved invisibility.

[@TrueXhomerS]

@@benross9174 I think the issues it has is how its relatively weak early when compared with the other cleric sub-classes. The power it has is really good but often are specific use-cases or only compare with the other sub-classes' spells and passives when building a party around it. I think of it similarly to knowledge, war, and nature domain in the way that you have to WANT to use it to make it worthwhile whereas other sub-classes like life and tempest are quite plug and play and others like light although want a specific few builds to really utilise its power, are still really good by default and can equip any decent gear on them and will still be incredibly useful. The issue I have with trickery is always the thought that okay its cool but do I want to build around this to really make 90% of its abilities useful and its always a no after the first time doing it. Tbf I am a life cleric enjoyer because I find heal bombing every turn in boss fights to be very entertaining on a mega tank support

[@MayHugger]

⁠@@benross9174I wouldn’t call it really good, but it definitely has a surprisingly decent niche if you really try to build towards it. Definitely takes a while for it to come online tho, which is why it’s viewed as being so bad, since most Cleric subclasses are very front loaded with their power.

[@benross9174]

@@MayHugger Spirit guardians + mirror image is really strong in the early mid game. You can have that combo avaible in Act 1 around the time you fight Nere. I do agree it super falls off and gets bad in act 3 though. (Story wise theres a nice oppurtunity to change specs though with SH). And its kinda meh before level 5 thats true. But people treat it like its garbage while its pretty good/decent and has a good niche

[@r6TrdSlow]

Finally, someone puts Moon Druid in S tier. I appreciate you

[@troydenbrum2979]

Yeah but there is an S+ tier so its really A tier.... and if you ignore S tier being a thing its really B tier, or 2nd tier.

[@LLMCxDak]

​@@troydenbrum2979oh shutup

[@genocidalyoukai7890]

@@troydenbrum2979 Not really. S tier is normal, the S+ tier was added because college of swords is actually bullshitingly good.

[@troydenbrum2979]

@@genocidalyoukai7890 which would make it first place, and everything that cant compete, 2nd place or worse, thats how the best goes. When you win a race by a large margin you dont get .5 place you get 1st.

[@nina9565]

Small correction: Channel divinity recovers on short rests, so it can be used 3/6 times a day.

[@Cephalopocalypse]

That's right - good catch!

[@ZeoffArcaneOfficial]

Small note: Ranged flourishes do work in tabletop. 5E swords bard only requires "attack action" and "weapon attack" The real change was how Slashing flourish worked range. In tabletop it's more like a bouncing arrow that could only hit one extra person instead of a whole second attack.

[@verybrownsalmon]

So… Trickery domain tricks you into thinking it has good subclass abilities

[@cloudy978]

Trickery has quite a few merits actually. Still a cleric amd has some very interesting synergies. Is it as good as other subclasses ? Definetely not. Is it Bad ? Not at all.

[@CiaphasKirby]

​@@cloudy978 I just don't understand why your body double aura can't move around like in TT. That alone got me so nettled I dipped out of trickery forever.

[@chrismeandyou]

The good T is Twilight

[@jotarokujo3603]

​@@CiaphasKirbyI was disappointed by that, too.

[@randomnobody660]

@@cloudy978 oh come on, wdym. Just let things be bad. If the worst subclass isn't bad I don't know what is, and it's not even like it has its niche which just doesn't come up often; it basically doesn't. Let things be bad again. Average is average, not good; above average is good, below is bad. If you think trickery is bad but it doesn't really matter because the game is easy enough, just say that.

[@ssap620]

It makes me happy to see Eldritch Knight ranked highly because it's been one of my favorite subclasses and I have felt that it's underrated. After my first playthrough with Laezel as a companion I've never played her as anything else. A really fun combo I found is learning the Expeditious Retreat spell, equipping the Strange Conduit ring and the Speedy Lightfeet boots, so she's always concentrating on a spell for psychic dmg and is able to use her bonus action to dash and add extra lightning damage to her attacks. I'm entering Act 3 now and plan to get the helmet of balduran to combine with the broodmother's revenge necklace. I play tactician and I never even have to use mirror image or blur because she just downs every enemy she hits and if she can't down them she stuns them the Soulbreaker greatsword. Also, not surprised to see swords bard as S+. My only previous experience with Bards was from BG1&2, so when I made a dark urge Swords Bard I chose to play on balanced thinking it was going to be underpowered LOL.

[@jahcode6132]

I did a playthrough where I took 1 wizard level and 11 tempest cleric levels and yeah it was hella fun. I used my one wizard level to learn the conjure elemental spell from a scroll and freecast to get two of the water myrmidons to just spray water everywhere so I could spam call lighting. It was awesome. The moments where an enemy would walk over electrified water and get thrown back off a cliff was hilarious as well. 10/10 would recommend.

[@xaveir7787]

how do you pump out so much quality content so fast?? Would love a party building guide sometime!

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Thanks! The secret is I've done nothing but think about dungeons and dragons for 20 years :P Party building guides coming soon! Probably next after this series

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

Of the various list videos I've seen of yours, this is the one I agree with the most. And yeah, Champion Fighters get pretty boned. They could at least keep improving the crit threshold as they level up. The "improved critical" human fighter setup was a classic meta/twink build in older editions of D&D, and Champion seems like it's meant to represent that specifically, but it just doesn't scale like those builds did. It was extremely common in 3.5 especially - take Bastard Sword proficiency with improved critical on it at level 1, so you get that 1d10 one-handed weapon *and* a shield, then get a few improved crit feats as you level up until your crit range gets to something like 16-17 and you're doing 3x damage crits when they land, and along with Greater Cleave so you'd just mow through enemies like they were grass and you're a lawnmower with little other than basic attacks. Its appeal was its simplicity and its effectiveness, and Champion seems to be trying to do the same thing, but because it expands crit range generally and not specifically, but that doesn't grow in scale as you level up, it's just completely outclassed.

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Exactly - personally, I preferred the old style of critical threat ranges and damage differing by weapon, since that gave weapons that are just inferior in 5e their own real niches and made critical hit builds much more spectacular. 5e just doesn't have anything that compares to the feeling of finally landing that scythe critical!

[@prometeo69]

Small note, tavern brawler is currently bug as of hotfix 20 on moon druids, it applies on the attack rolls but not on the dmg, another sad day for moon druids in bg3. And btw the Spreading Spores from lvl 10 spore druid uses a bonus action, not an action, and you can cast it as many times as you want in a combat, and it doesnt harm allies, so you can use a fighter to trap enemies on it while keep casting on that same area without hurting your melees.

[@Avoncarstien]

Spore Druid is probably the *single* best user of the Cull the Weak Illithid power. It's niche but being able to act offensively with an AoE spell as an action, an AoE lingering cloud as a bonus action, *and* poke someone as a Reaction because why not, you can touch a number of targets in a turn that only a Sorcerer double-casting with with something like quicken and Magic Missile or Fireball can keep up with, and a Sorcerer will burn through resources significantly more quickly to do so. Combine that with the summons and it's probably the best zone-control caster.

[@luminous2585]

The only thing that felt a bit biased was when you were talking about Battlemaster Superiority Dice being scarce. BM has up to 5 superiority dice (not counting items,) which come back on a short rest, and many but not all of its uses only eat the die on a hit. Bardic inspiration for Swords Bard flourishes are mostly the same, but you were praising how you could use them so often. Bard => many times per day. Fighter => run out in one round of combat. I get that the bard has amazing damage potential and lots of versatility, but just the way you approached the resources I couldn't understand.

[@doloresabernathy9809]

This series is super helpful and a real service to the player community. Thank you! I think its especially good for newer players but I have over more hours than I care to admit and it’s still good to hear your well thought out opinions!

[@HugoSarrotte]

I still did not watch this one because i'm looking at all the building character serie in order . But i just want to say as a guy that played some table top 20 years ago tapping again into D&D those days through BG3 , i'm so happy to have found your content . Your way to explain theorycrafting is indeed fascinating ! I'm very entertained sir. Deep thanks .

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Thanks so much! One of my favorite things about BG3 is how many new and returning players it's brought to one of my favorite hobbies - it's awesome to see old hands picking the game back up

[@SoI_Badguy]

You should have a tier on top just called "Swords Bard" and have it be separated by 3 other tiers above every other subclass in the game. Such a broken subclass.

[@JoshSweetvale]

Howso? I want to play a bard. Does it have to do with bonus actions?

[@thehippieboy6927]

​@@JoshSweetvale It has to do with the flourishes, ESPECIALLY Sword Flourish. It's 2 attacks per action if you're using a ranged weapon, plus another 1-2 attacks if you're using hand crossbows and using bonus action to fire offhand (multi class into rogue for extra bonus action). Crazy good in a vacuum, incredibly broken considering bards are good and basically everything

[@formatomi]

Why? Just because it has more attacks than any martial, while being a full caster, have the best out of combat utility and being the best face with lots of skills and experise? Apart from these its nothing special… /s

[@chuckchan4127]

​@@formatomi Swords Bard Duergar. Make sure to pick Drum to min-max!

[@VeelouC]

I don't get it, swords Bard in honor does the least damage, they're only good for charisma dialogue checks. Astarion misses half the time I do flourishes.

[@MinCalm]

Kinda weird how swords bard abilities work with ranged attacks.

[@nina9565]

I don't disagree with the wild magic barbarian's placement at all, but I think it's worth noting the d4 you get from bolstering magic stacks with guidance, so if you're okay with pickpocketing on honour mode, it can make it much easier.

[@chrishudson6138]

Imo, eldritch knight is also pretty good as a controller with the same swords bard combo, arcane acuity + mystic scoundrel, even full class with the level 10 eldritch feature giving disadvantage, very reliable control

[@lolimmune]

Subclass video?! A man of culture and class. Thank you sir. Now for sick multiclass video

[@kalebs6201]

This is perfect timing as im working on planning my honor run as its the last achievement in my way

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Nice - good luck!

[@rooty_rootz]

I love Champion as long as you can stack all the reduced critical items (bloodthirst, undermountain knife, sarevok's helmet, dead shot, elixir of viciousness, vivacious cloak) eventually you only need to roll a 14 to crit, or 13 if you're hidden

[@TheKrensada]

No nonsense. No sponsored content before you even begin. I like that.

[@Zendien]

Shocking Grasp would be pretty sweet on the Eldritch Knight. Disables the enemy reaction so no more Ready to Parry from the annoying Githyanki, lol. I didn't know that on my first playthrough tho so my EK Lae'zel just brute forcing thru those guys

[@puntacana7550]

You are my favorite BG3 tierlist guy.

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Thanks very much!

[@puppyzebra22]

Your explanations are the most concise and easy to understand. Keep up the amazing content!!!

[@northofself]

The coolest use for Trickery cleric that I saw was someone using invoke Duplicity as a secondary target for twin-cast Hail of Thorns to get a double overlapping aura of Piercing damage with the Bhaalist Armor aura and an automatic crit that actually redoubled the AOE damage dice. It's apparently a glitch, so I'm eager to see Larian nerf Trickery cleric's Invoke Duplicity 😁

[@celestialowl8865]

Its pretty interesting to see how you feel about wild magic barb compared to wild magic sorcerer. Also been playing around with a stealth druid halfling playstyle with land druid for greater invisibility to fall out of turn order and use your strong concentrationless spells like plant growth, gust of wind ledge kills, the buffed grasping vine, woodland being, ice storm, ect. Lot of fun "spirit of nature" kind of build that can cap off your greater invis by casting another super strong concentration spell if you need to join combat yourself. Druid also give you shields for gloomshields +stealth coincidentally

[@marasawr]

I appreciate that this is basically We Rate Dogs for BG3 - 11/10 they’re good subclasses Brent 🖤

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Exactly! They ARE good subclasses :D

[@Twisttheawesome]

First character was Lore Bard with the Actor Feat. For those who don't know, Actor flat-out gives you Expertise in Performance and Deception - you don't need Proficiency with them first. This means my Lore Bard was Proficient or an Expert in so many useful skills there was basically no content or dialogue option they were locked out ot.

[@Ketooey]

I quite like Trickery domain on Shadowheart, due to Dimension Door. She was built as a utility character, so having Dimension Door really helped in getting the damage dealer where they needed to be. Doubly so if you take alert on everyone, so you can freely swap to Shadowheart for the teleport, and then to the damage dealer.

[@gregoberski5897]

Another big negative to Wild Magic Barbarian, a lot (or all?) of their beneficial effects will ALSO apply to nearby enemies. I don't know if they've fixed this, surely it's a bug. Dancing Lights (+1AC to all allies within 10ft) will also give +1 AC to every enemy in that range.

[@inlinesk8r477]

23:24 Hi late here, but the flourishes do work at ranged in tabletop. It just requires the attack action for its movement passives and "a weapon attack" for the flourishes , not any specific weapon or melee. The broken thing here and the thing that is changed from tabletop is that in Tabletop you can only use one type of blade flourish per turn, and slashing flourish change is letting you target the same creature. In tabletop slashing flourish specifically says that you do extra damage in your attack equal to your Bardic Inspiration on your attack AND you deal the same extra damage to a creature of your choice that is within 5ft of you (so that would be only the Bardic inspiration damage) All other flourishes work with ranged weapons, and it is in fact optimal to use a bow in 5e. In 5e slashing flourish is the worst one. Please actually read the ability before saying things like that😅 I know this is not a TTRPG channel, but if you are going to comment about it, let's at least say how it actually works

[@cadesummers5866]

Spore Druid, despite not having the extra attack, really benefits from hand crossbow and spell sniper eldritch blast. Those combinations can really have the bonus damage add up

[@triplethreatgaming8583]

I just bought the first one a couple weeks ago for $5and been loving it. Idk how I missed the original but this game made me want to play the original I can’t wait for the 22nd!! 🤘🏼🤘🏼

[@Karina-winsmore]

Eldritch Knight fighter is a prime candidate for headband of intellect if you want occasionally cast control spells like hold person.

[@melissazadrozny5167]

Great descriptive video as always! I have to say as much as I enjoy Baldar's Gate 3, I hate how the developers just seemed to throw balance out the window with some of these classes choosing to make things that were balanced ridiculously overpowered. I could understand some things being broken on release, balance is difficult to uh... balance before knowing how strong the classes actually are. But months out from the game, they really have no excuse for not having nerfed some of these classes that need it

[@violetbliss4399]

One thing I find really cool in bg3 is how Barbarian has the utility to sort of buff casters. Wild magic, Zerker water throws / prone, and Wildheart debuffs making so many saves put at disadvantage. They're definitely a Land druid's best friend.

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Yeah! One of the awesome things about the game is all the small synergies like that

[@twofortiel]

Everything else aside, I can confirm that a throwing build on an Eldritch Knight is, in fact, quite fun. I’ve got an evil run paused somewhere in Act 3 because I’m waiting on Patch7. But that one’s an Eldritch Knight, and I’ve just been tossing The Baneful at people, and it’s just been the best.

[@docnevyn5814]

Great video. One thing: Trickery clerics also get mirror image which is great for not losing concentration or having your cleric go down while spirit guardians is doing its work. Also, invoke duplicity is concentration in 5e.

[@AllyMonsters]

lvl 10 evocation wizard + lvl 2 warlock. Eblast away baby. Another fun sub build I like is powerful hand crossbow build. lvl 6 rouge/thief and lvl 6 sward bard.

[@thomasrosendahl2783]

10 Lore Bard + 2 Divination Wizard Halfling, Now you control all the ability checks and dice rolls. Also called the Elminster Volo build, in the forgotten Realms.

[@b1ackm4gic]

I think wolf heart barbarian is one of the best unique support styles in the game. Advantage is a big deal, ongoing permanent easy access movable advatage just for existing? Incredible, as long as your party leans melee but also summons will benefit greatly. Wolf heart rage is an "I win" button. Also Wild Magic's +proficiency save aura is great for boss fights especially if you have a party that likes to stay tight (Paladin, etc)

[@ArteriusSaren]

Earth myrmidon with tavern brawler on moon druid is force to be reckoned with. You can simply yeet it into a bunch of enemies, which were pulled together by black hole or void bulb and watch how they all went prone and can't reach your casters. Only thing which left for them is attacking 20ac myrmidon with 120+ hp, which if yeeted correctly can still teleport out of melee range and teleport back on it's own turn to finish the fight.

[@Anton-GameLifeCoaching]

Well done on crafting these videos, very detailed and interesting to follow! I've been wondering what subclass to respec my companions into and this helps a lot! What is strong in BG3 is quite a bit different than what is good in D&D!

[@downeyms]

Thanks for putting these videos out!

[@her0que]

I disagree with the core playstyle of Druid hinging on managing concentrations in Wild Shape, that belongs almost exclusively to Circle of the Moon. I think the core playstyle of Druid is that you're a full caster and thus you play like a full caster; throw down your control spells and pick off enemies that approach. Unless you're a Tavern Brawler Circle of the Moon, no Wild Shape is outperforming a dedicated martial anyways. Wild Shape has some utility out of combat for map access and the extra HP can save you in a pinch, but it should not even be a consideration in combat for Land and Spores Druids because it prevents them from casting and you would rather be casting. I also think the extra damage features of Spore Druid are a trap; once again, it's a full caster with an improved spell list, especially between Bone Chill and Animate Dead. Why be a bad martial when you can be a Druid with more spells? Pick up your extra damage from Halo of Spores when you're in range, but otherwise just be a Druid with infinite temp HP and an entourage of summons. I would put Circle of the Land and Spores in S and Moon in A. As full casters Land and Spores miss out on very little from being mono class, just Sorc 1 for CON Saving Throws and Shield spell. Moon likewise isn't missing out on much except Fighter 2 for Action Surge and CON Throws. I rate Moon lower because it's a Tavern Brawler martial that doesn't get as much gear thrown at it as Thrower Barb or Monk do. (Edit: I forgot to mention, thank you for the content! I got too absorbed in arguing the points I wanted to make for Druid that I neglected to say your content is always thoughtful and interesting. It's very much appreciated.)

[@stephhanley3167]

In 5E, the Valor bard becomes more distinct than the Swords bard, but only upon acquisition of their 14th level subclass feature, which lets them make a weapon attack as a bonus action whenever they use their action to cast a spell or cantrip. Also, the Valor bard's Combat inspiration gives other characters a reaction, which is significant. The Lore bard's cutting words is limited to the bard's reaction. Combat inspiration can be used on other character's reaction, which never gets brought up during discussions of the Valor bard. In BG3 specifically, the Valor bard's access to all martial weapons allows them to benefit from the vast bonuses that come from magical equipment. The extra damage from the Swords bard's flourishes are comparable to heavier hitting martial weapons that Valor bards have access to. Their defensive flourish is comparable to the Valor bard's Combat inspiration, and its ability to buff the party's armor class. The Swords bard channels all of their subclass's features into making the bard a stronger singular entity. The Valor bard uses their powers to amplify the party's combat capabilities with both spells, weapons and inspiration. The Valor bard gets looked down upon, or otherwise overlooked, when they really shouldn't be. They are a force multiplier, moreso than any other bard.

[@jejo63660]

You made it sound like Lore bards only get cutting words, but they get cutting words and bardic inspiration, which is the lore bard comparison to combat inspiration, but doesn’t include increasing damage/ac. Lore bard’s cutting words is much stronger than you’re giving it credit for because it reduces enemies saving throws. Reducing the saving throws of an enemy as it tries to resist hold person, dominate person, banishment, etc is a much, much better use of a die than adding that same number to a singular martial attack. Landing a level 4,5,6 CC spell that you would have failed completely changes the outcome of fights.

[@massivesandwich6932]

Was waiting for this one, your takes are accurate affff

[@alfreynope5660]

Lore Bard's possibly strongest ability in BG3 is that they can use cutting words on enemy saving throws. Adding a 1d6/8/10 to your spells' DC will very often let you land a powerful control ability on the target you need it on, vastly improving the effectiveness of a control caster. It also lets you significantly reduce the odds of an enemy saving on your big damage spells like a tempest cleric doing their typical wet lightning shenanigans.

[@Logank192]

Something insane that you didn't mention about the Spore Warden that DESTROYS the Underdark is that you can raise the Bulette.

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Is there a special dialogue option there? That's cool! I've always done it by having the mushroom guy raise it

[@Logank192]

@@Cephalopocalypse, I actually just checked. That's my bad, I think it was unintentional and got patched, since it's a monstrosity, not a beast.

[@alexmashkin863]

I don't remember there being any really difficult fights in the Underdark though 🤷🏻‍♂️ In fact the most difficult fight was that boulette and it wasn't really difficult, I then raised it with the mushroom guy :-)) Although I don't play honor, so I might be completely off the mark here, idk

[@sirjoesphjoestar8361]

Honor mode gets hard at Myrkul and onwards, until then, it's not really know if you know what you are doing.@@alexmashkin863

[@PatrickStahlitrm]

I like the simplicity of the Champion sub-class. You only have to worry about hitting things.

[@chuckchan4127]

Gloomstalker is the superior low/no resource option.

[@Furious_Bananas]

I love how Barbarian and Rouge are the worst single class characters, yet when multiclassed with each other with TB are probably a top 5 build in the game lol.

[@8shanrahan1]

I get your argument about life cleric, but being able to more consistently apply an aoe bless and blade ward makes the healing so good. I guess it depends on how often you’re resting. I try to get through the acts with as few rests as possible, so it just depends. Light cleric and tempest cleric can be a primary aoe damage dealer and debuffer, whereas life cleric is a buffer and healer.

[@bobyhappy2992]

I played a circle of the land Druid and I would ABSOLUTELY NOT recommend taking the haste bonus spell (from arctic/grassland) for a simple reason : druids have SO MANY concentration spells already if you take Haste you won't be able to use 90% of your spells because that would break your concentration on haste and fucked up whoever was targeted by it haste on a druid is overrated

[@TheRedAzuki]

I don't even use Haste on anyone, I just use the Haste Potions if needed, or the haste bombs you get in act 1 and later, Haste Spore from spore druid armor. (it's actually twice per short rest, as it's 1 per use of your wildshape).

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Check out my guide "The owlbear flies" for one hilarious use of land druid haste

[@gomatgo]

Ah, S+, future home of the Throwing Barb/Tossing Eldritch and Swords Bard.

[@Fusako8]

I'd encourage you to consider "How much player interaction is required to get the most out of this class" and "how much knowledge is required?" Part of why I like open hand monk is just how straight forward it is. . . My first 3 serious starts in BG3 were a swords bard (enjoyable enough but I don't really like the class all that much) Open hand monk (I balanced the build around giant elixirs and warped headband) and Durge Oathbreaker necromancer (With the explicit goals of saving Alfira who is one of my favorite NPCs) Monk is most enjoyable by far because combats finish FAR quicker, with less micro needed. If there were a way to set summons to autoplay I'd probably have enjoyed my necromancer, but by the time it takes to go through the massive army of summons was making the game tedious. Powerful, sure, but soooooo much micro. Also don't forget to drop things into "Outclassed" if a single easy to acquire item makes their premier ability moot. One I'm specifically thinking of here is the Shadow Monk's pass without trace ability is replicated by the ring you can get in act 2. I'd also encourage you to note if one of the Origins particularly excels at a class. Like, oh, Mama K getting an extra 2d4 unarmed damage when you pop a coin in her slot, no rage needed.

[@hiddenmaster6062]

Unless Honored mode changed it, Berserker Wild Magic has no negative effects. It's always a positive one, so it's generally easy to plan around it. Just pop rage like normal and enjoy the proverbial mystery box that is wild magic.

[@r6TrdSlow]

Love these videos. I know this is a mono-class tier list. It would be neat to see you do a multiclass tier list (though, I know that would be a very long process). A build I saw the other day and have been testing out is Ancients Paladin/Life Cleric (6/6, but 5/4 right now as I am in Act 2) and MAN. It’s a lot of fun being a good damage dealer AND the primary healer. It’s really only a single target damage dealer, but it’s been a fun build to test out. Extra attack and bonus action healing is pretty handy

[@common_undead]

Swords bards are actually fucking insane and I can't believe they exist in this game's balancing. In addition to them being the best martial and one of the best casters, they get to use some of the most broken equipment (arcane acuity gear, mystic scoundrel ring, reverb/radiant orb gear) among the most efficiently, which only exacerbates the problem. I think if swords bards had to be well balanced, they'd have to have the following nerfs: 1. No medium armor proficiency 2. Slashing flourish must pick different targets (like twinned spell does), to make other flourishes situationally optimal 3. Flourishes can only be used once/turn (less burst damage potential). 4. Option to pick archery fighting style (mainly to make the archer version of the swords bard without having to rely on dips into fighter/ranger for the fighting style). In addition to this, other nerfs to mechanics should include: 1. Arcane acuity only stacks to a max of 5 2. Radiant Orb only stacks to a max of 6 and enemies lose two turns every round instead of 1. 3. Initiative is rolled on a D10-D12 (to make Alert less busted while not devaluing it's bonus relative to gear which gives initiative or increases to dexterity)

[@jlstudio1050]

In BG3 cutting words can cut saving throws just like Eloquence Bard in Table top, which makes it even more top-tier imo.

[@ShovelLettuce]

7:48 A thing I want to mention, the strain only lasts till the end of the frenzy, so you can cancel out of it (Don't know if you have already corrected yourself but there it is)

[@Nivomandasrail]

Invoke Duplicity is even worse than I thought. I tried casting Darkness on my party to protect us from ranged attacks and it broke Shadowheart's concentration on her Invoke Duplicity. Turns out you need to be able to see your illusion copy or it breaks your concentration. It doesn't say that in the spell description but I found it out during my honour mode run, woohoo!

[@davidshepard-alenko4232]

I think it could be worth noting that with Nyrulna, the battle master can take over the tavern brawler thrower niche. just as much damage output, but trading the utility spells for manoeuvres that make them extremely effective both at melee and at range. I think that level of versatility in combination with high damage output could put the Battle Master into the S-tier.

[@thewanderers97]

the description says part 2 Also thank you so much for these videos, they scratch my itch for optimisation without shaming me for not hyperoptimising because of roleplay

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Thanks! You're right that's a little unclear - I meant the second part of the series, where part 1 was the class tier list, but since this video's also in two parts that's definitely confusing. I'll update it :D

[@austinprevette474]

2 paladin 10 war cleric is one of my favorite dwarves I've made. Flamestrike plus smites is awesome. Also 2 pally and 10 light cleric or 9 land druid 1 war cleric

[@blizzardthekleptomaniac100]

You should do a lore accurate dark urge build 🗣️🔥

[@klaek2713]

So not to take away from sword bards as being basicly the most broken class in the game, but an important factor is that you cannot use consumable arrows with ranged flourish. For example a fighter could with action surge shoot 6x slaying arrows in a single round for the equivalent of 12 attacks of damage while the bard has "only" done their 4. Also another fun option is if you can get the enemies grouped, you can apply combustion oil to your bow and use many target arrows to spread it out and then a fire arrow to blow them up. Ofcourse a sword bard can still use these arrows it just falls behind the fighters 3rd extra attack.

[@NathanT_Performer]

I never use precision attack because you don't lose your superiority dice if you miss. The versatility of things like sweeping attack hitting invisible enemies if you know where they are is too good

[@JoshMars_]

I expect swords bard to be the only S+ subclass tbh. They're so insane.

[@sherrydowns4052]

Saw someone do 3x swords w/hand crossbows and cleric tank. It was very effective

[@r.s.819]

I'd assume Way of the Open Hand. The sheer amount of damage they can do with relatively little preparation (gloves of your choice, vest of soul rejuvenation, strength elixir, tavern brawler, maybe Alert, and Kushigo boots) is disgusting, and not in a bad way. And they're made even better by something like Swords Bard just controlling everything on the field and granting either advantage against them, or paralyzing them and guaranteeing criticals outright.

[@Astral_Incarnate]

​@@r.s.819ya i think way of the open hand is the most consistent damage you can get every single turn of combat for several several combat encounters. With very little resource/item investment you can get them to do like 300 damage in one turn on average just by themselves. Of course there are ways to get much higher damage with other classes but most cant do it by themselves or they can only do it for a single turn before needing to short/long rest

[@thegrimdeather3691]

Would you consider doing a multiclass tier list specifically on how the builds you make videos on have aged?

[@blazingazong]

There are act 3 gloves that give advantage on battle maneuvers, so there is a way to gain advantage on fighters, just not champion

[@Trestin13]

What cracks me up about your opinion woth Eldritch Knight, is in my in person game i wanted to be one, Dex based, who threw at forst was going to be handaxes before i realized they were Str based. So i switched to throwing daggers. Now im a lvl5 eldritch knight/lvl 3 inquisitive rogue, that throws most of the time.

[@dancook6114]

Not relevant to the tier ranking but a slight correction: in pen and paper swords bards can absolutely use their flourishes on ranged attacks, the ability description doesnt say melee anywhere. However it has 2 major differences that makes it much weaker than in bg3: slashing flourish doesnt make 2 attacks, you can simply deal damage equal to the roll of 1 inspiration to the second creature. And second you can only use 1 flourish per turn no matter how many attacks you can make

[@АлексейНестеров-ц1ь]

You can get bonus action attack on barbarian without frenzy - through great weapon mastery feat. In late game, when you can proc that reliably, berserker value really falls off.

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Yep - not to mention that martials just have great uses for their bonus action by default anyways: jumping and pushing are almost always good, but conflict with the berserker's playstyle.

[@АлексейНестеров-ц1ь]

​@@Cephalopocalypse exactly! My "barbarians" typically end up with only 2 barbarian levels for reckless attack cause it feels taxing to even activate rage.

[@frankzappa9853]

You can get paralyzing critical as a champion fighter, and if you stack gear and potions you will lower the threshold of critical strike quite a bit, you take potion of viciousness and you get it to 18-20 and there was a item you could get that lowered it even more I like the class myself the jump helps strengthen the fighters weak point of being out of position, but yes there is not a lot of flavor to the class you can crit and jump that's pretty much it

[@Leftside08]

I would maybe suggest that battlemaster is S tier-- the improved accuracy from the superiority dice is nice, but is often overkill if you're already being buffed. And the ability to basically chain CC a character OR nuke the piss out of them is just really strong and straight forward. It also probably has one of the strongest power curves where you just start strong and keep getting stronger. Also, since your resource is brought back after short rest I think that's less of a hindrance that maybe it has been weighted.

[@RicardoVega-p1p]

You earned my sub and like, señor, saludos desde Monterrey NL, great content.

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Thanks very much - welcome!

[@prkeene]

Once this is done you've got to do an Honor mode run using only Out Classed characters to show its still not that bad and prove the haters wrong.

[@Ex_Machina.]

How do I put together a party? What should I consider?

[@Cephalopocalypse]

Full party building guides are probably next after this series!

[@Ex_Machina.]

​@@CephalopocalypseAlright! I am really enjoying your content

[@VeelouC]

I have to be doing something wrong with swords Bard in my honor mode because out of my battlemaster fighter, open hand monk, Tempest Cleric, and your guide on abjuration wizard, astarion as a swords Bard does the least amount of damage and I only put him in when there's a charisma check I want. I love to see Nature Cleric high on the list!!

[@gersonbruno8463]

Arcane Acuity is my favorite mechanic in this game, I always try to find some way to use it as good as sword bard can with mystic scoundrel

[@seaurchinayano6140]

Always looking forward to your tier lists

[@RockyChoi-vr3hl]

I wanted to know which single classes/subclasses/multi-classes are strongest in early game, mid-game, and/or late game. Level 1-4 is early game. Level 5-8 is mid game. Level 9-12 is late game. Also, I wanted to know how you approach honor mode in terms of which quests/combats/areas you face first in early game based on the classes you play? Which quests/combats/areas do you face first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, & etc…

[@travisretriever7473]

8:40 I was gonna say; like, combine those strength elixir farming exploits, tavern brawler (for thrown attacks), great weapon master (for melee attacks), and bless from either a paladin or cleric, and well, yeah, W00000000000t!

[@meiofauna2267]

Spore Druid underrated. 6-9 big pools of temp HP that don’t interfere with casting, best summoning, unique AOE haste option

[@Karina-winsmore]

Nature cleric could be built into wisdom based melee fighter if you get 5 levels in any martial class. I like ranger for the theme.

[@meko98743]

Great video, but one small point I disagree with: when it comes to the math and champion, I think 5% chance to crit is way better than 1 extra damage per turn for 2 reasons: the first is it has greater synergy, with half-orc's extra crit dice and great weapon master's extra attack, and secondly because it feeds into the action economy better because you're much more likely to kill something you otherwise wouldn't that would then go on to take actions against you and rewrite actions, and potentially awkward/inefficient uses of other party members' actions to prevent. For example, an enemy from killing one of your party members or a friendly npc, healing, summoning etc. So really it's better to think of it either as 5% chance to kill something that you otherwise wouldn't, or 5% to crit AND an extra damage dice AND an extra attack, which certainly lacks the flexibility and utility of the other fighter subclasses but isn't terrible, either. I also think champion's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness: its simplicity. A lot of players might find the sheer number of options overwhelming, especially if they're new to RPGs so having a class which is really simple to learn can be great for them. But it might feel basic and boring to others. IMO to "fix" champion, I'd give it some radiant buff/debuff effects similar to paladin auras. After all, a champion is supposed to be an inspiring figure who gives his fellow fighters hope and strikes fear into the enemy by their presence alone.

[@crimansizers5840]

Battle master is more powerful than you give it credit for. You get 6 ( with BM feat) and have the riposte ability which uses your reaction ( something you don’t have much use for) for an extra attack. This means you are doing 4 hits per round for 6 rounds per short rest. Run this guy with a warlock and bard and you are the king of short rests. 1:09:38 once you get Nyrula you don’t need enchanted weapon and BM becomes the better way to throw weapons as well. Precision strike is not something you want to spend a dice for, given you can use any weapon your fighter should have an enchanted weapon that has a good bonus (eg plus 2 or 3). Your extra feat means 20 Str or Dex is very doable (if not more with items). Utility spells are better on a dedicated spell caster bc they don’t have to worry about multiple attributes (int and str) and have good spell save DC. I’d only take EK early and once you get a throwing weapon it is outclassed by battle master

[@DarkDemise6066]

Playing a non-throwing EK currently in one of my honor runs, I already beat it so I'm just playing classes I haven't before / sub optimally. Having ray of frost as a fighter is great when my cleric casts sleet storm and my warlock casts hunger of hadar, it's just hilarious.. Enemies take one step and end turn and if they get out the EK still is a fighter and just beats them up lol. I know I could do more damage throwing but the RP of a spellcasting fighter is too fun. Enhanced jump with 18 strength is also hilarious, who needs misty step when you can leap twice the distance lol.

[@makiiavely]

1:06:10 I do think that an eldritch knight/Pact of the blade warlock multiclass can be better at dealing damage with war magic than straight up attacking. With 7 fighter/5 warlock you can have both agonising blast and repelling blast, your weapon scales with CHA thanks to bind pact weapon so you can basically max it instead of strength and Eldritch Blast of course combines great with War Magic. I think a fully upgraded eldritch blast + weapon attack can go toe to toe with Improved Extra attack the eldritch knight would get at higher levels but it's so versatile being able to target so many different enemies in a single turn and also attack in the same turn

[@chasedolan8307]

I think Lore Bard was undercut a little bit because of cutting words ability to lower enemies saving throws basically allowing Lore Bard to almost guarantee some of the most powerful control spells on a target using just a reaction and letting them focus less on gear for spell save DC

[@spenceregerton5268]

16:33 I also can just NEVER pass up on getting Karlach some piercings 😍

[@KC-jp4rr]

Love your detailed explanations for each subclass - each rating makes sense with the points explained. Just wanted push another niche reason for a Berserker Thrower to be rated closer to EK throwers - the Helmet of Grit. You can rush the helmet in Act 3 before getting EK's 3rd attack, and hit 4 attacks per turn as a single class. Creates a glass-cannon thrower in contrast to the tanky EK. Berserker also has passives to avoid ranged damage, so even at

[@fireburn264]

I really appreciate your inclusiveness and not making toxic statements about people being dumb for making certain choices.

[@alexsitaras6508]

I remember hearing that EK was such a bad class. But on my first play through I would have the cleric cast sanctuary and be a heal or buff bot. Then the EK would just spit out 3 or 4 attacks a turn. Maybe getting hit twice while fighting several elementals over several turns.

[@SuperGakman]

I played Shadowheart as a life domain cleric my first run. I would pop sanctuary after the first turn and just have her run around healing the entire time. You seem to think healing isn’t worth it but it was incredibly powerful in my opinion.

[@jejo63660]

Using one party member to heal is usually an inefficient and even dangerous way to play, because generally the best defense in BG3 is to take out enemies as quickly as possible, which having one party member solely dedicated to healing doesn’t allow for. On top of that it is very feasible for characters to heal themselves using potions with their bonus action.

[@CMiY0]

Depends on the game mode and encounter in that mode. I think most honor mode encounters it’s not very beneficial or will just drag that encounter to like 10 ish turns for lack of 4th person doing any significant damage.

[@darklyroaring]

As long as you are using the whispering promise ring, having someone who can cast a big AoE heal at any given time might be worth the trade-off. This means with a life cleric you can bless everyone and still do your spirit guardian thing with the added benefit of your AOE heal recharging on a short rest unlike mass healing word

[@smellycatbutts]

There's never much of a reason to heal during combat.

[@TheVileintent]

Also, Eldritch knight. If it's a mono class and your not using them as the were designed doesn't make them an S tier really. A at best honestly.

[@joshw9424]

IDK, maybe I didn't have issues because my main was Lore Bard so I had the extra Short Rest, but I ran my first Honour Mode with two pure BM fighters and a third ranged BM dip, and it felt pretty S tier to me. With so many attacks & extra actions & action surges, Alert Feat, etc. you pretty much end fights before anything gets a turn. Sure it's not the most original concept, but it's straightforward & noob friendly.

[@johnbarry5036]

10:20 Note also there is no save on the knock down and if this is a caster, it will automatically break concentration on a spell. Again, no save, auto prone and lose concentration... huge. Bec of this, I think the Beserker is better than the EK thrower. Also keep in mind, to get to the 3 attacks you compare to the Beserker.... you gotta first live long enough to get to Level 11. If you're playing Honor Mode (and epsc if you're playing solo...), I'd wager the Barb has a better chance of making it. So comparing the 6 attacks vs 3 is not quite tranparent imo, for %90 of the game (and the part you'll most likely die), its 3 vs 3.

[@Cephalopocalypse]

The prone effect is of course very powerful, but it's not really the case that you have to get to 11 before EK gets more attacks - remember barb has to spend a bonus action on rage. At level 3-4, fighter gets 2/1/1, barb gets 1/2/2, so barb is ahead since at that stage enough fights will go to round 3 or longer that they'll get more attacks. At level 5-10, it's 4/2/2 vs 2/3/3, which heavily favors fighter, since they'll get more attacks in most combats *and* they get them earlier, which is of course much better. Then at 11 barb is still on 2/3/3 where fighter is on 6/3/3 and just massively ahead. For mono class characters it's just not close in terms of damage.

[@randomnobody660]

Ease of play is such a big deal not often mentioned. I'm approaching the end of my first honor mode so in anticipation of some big fights I'm not going to switch now, but my run would have been a good bit comfier if I, say, took a pure ek thrower rather than a berserker/thief/ek thrower. The problem with the latter ofc being not knowing when to frenzy. Frenzying only to find most enemies dead by the 2nd round feels really bad, perhaps only comparable to not doing so only for the fight to turned out much harder than anticipated and having to frenzy after other members already wasted resources. Doing 3 throws round 1 and 4 every subsequent round also matters very little vs consistent 3 every round when most fights, even harder/boss fight if all your members blow resources, are over in 2-3 rounds. Long resting also becomes more and more of an annoyance as you develop a buffing ritual. Do you need to twin draconic weapon but your caster and 2 recipients are on opposite sides of camp? Have fun herding them together. Do you have a hireling cast hero's feat + aid, and maybe also freedom of movement and warding bond? Better keep dragging your party members back. Do you have summons, better yet ones that require corpses? Got to remember to do that before the ritual etc. For the same reason thou, I really didn't feel the 5 die limit on battlemaster to be that big a deal. If you don't know what you are doing, and I don't, just baseline power level of 3 attacks is quite good for those minor encounters, and 1 turn of big burst on boss fights has typically been enough to make up for not having a subclass for the other 2 turns. I also didn't find light cleric particularly good. Warding flare would be nice if if you were mitigating one of a few big hits, but the big ones are often going to hit even if you flare. I also found that the party has more than enough damage between a 10/2 sorlock and the aforementioned 12bm and 5/4/3 frenzied eldritch quick hand thrower, and if it didn't, glyph is not far from fireball/flamestrike, and scorching ray feels bad anways when spellmight/markoheshkir are taken and you aren't even a draco sorc/involc wizard. Currently she is respec-ed to life, wears orb/reverb gear, and casts spirit guardian then struggles to reach anybody most round. Straying away from single class, she does have 1 wizard dip for typically an air myrmidon to go with the cambion from rapier as well as artistry of war and dethrone. If things go south she can heal everybody's almost full health bar over 2 turns or cast insect swarm (or blade barrier if she was pure) if we run away to defend a choke, which happened like twice ever and would be avoided if I knew the fight beforehand and prepped properly, but is still something.

[@JayB-oz4wo]

I want to multiclass as Rogue 3 (Theif) and Sword Bard 9, would this be a downgrade from full Sword Bard and if so how much? I've googled this but there's not a lot on this build and even less consensus 😅

[@shinykitsunelive]

it would be a downgrade because you would lose access to 6th level spellcasting, the main benefit of swords bard is having all the attacks of a fighter with the spellcasting of a full caster