Subcontracting Painters, Who Wins?

The new trend of business owners in the repaint business using subcontractors is growing. Is it really worth it? College grads and sales people are finding ways to make lots of money with no painting experience at all. Can you do it too?
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Psalm 30:4

[@Idahopainter]

Who uses Subcontractors and who does not?

[@FranciscoMartinez-zv2rw]

I have used subs before, but it’s a hassle. I’m typing to get away from it. I have never been the sub.

[@clayton2182]

I started my own LLC and so far I don’t wanna take on any employees. I just don’t take on the biggest of jobs. I also don’t use subcontractors of any kind really ever. I think bidding is the best part of the job lol

[@kristinabutler3969]

What happens when I have started my own company but started out working for a subcontractor for another painting company who had three other subcontractor. All 4 of us filled out 1099s but we get paid hourly with a clock in app and unpaid 30min lunch. The painting company we work for provides all material and work shirts. Should he technically be paying us as an actual employee? I have other jobs I do on the side aside from ‘ THIS’ company I’m suppose to work Monday-Friday 30-40+ hours sometimes (I personally have not gotten to get that many hours in). But in conclusion just wondering if were really subcontractors or should we technically be filling out a w-4 as an employee. No paid over time or not paid per job. And there’s no subcontractor contract written up or signed.

[@therealkakitron]

Ideally, we'd all be great at everything. However, it's very sad to see someone like a great painter, who is excellent at their craft, assume that being awesome at painting will automatically make them a great business owner, administrator, sales and marketing expert. Throughout the years I've seen many risk their life's savings only to lose them because they fail at owning their own business. There's a reason why even the most powerful and successful corporations hire experts for individual tasks and departments. Sure, it sucks to share the pie with someone else, but working together, each at what we're good at, there will be exponentially more pies to share, less stress because we're doing what we're naturally talented in and you can get a bigger market share. Being butthurt at the thought of not keeping 100% to yourself is a poor man's, scarcity type of mentality. There's a reason why Jeff Bezos doesn't drive the truck to bring you whatever you bought on Amazon.

[@therealkakitron]

@@kristinabutler3969 you could pursue that legally, and probably have a strong chance of winning your case, but would you want to do that? I don't know your exact situation, but many people who are 1099'd don't pay contributions to their social security, unemployment, 401k, etc, so if everything was to be applied as if you were a W2 employee, you'd probably keep less money after all those deductions. I don't know, maybe you'd actually prefer to have those deductions, but if you're like the majority, you probably actually kept more money in your pocket the way they paid you.

[@suckerfish178]

I’m so happy to be a subcontractor I feel into a job where it’s just like family and I’m very great full for who I work for!! I had to leave for surgery and after seeing the job these scabs did was a horrible job and the reason I’m still with the company today

[@aijalonredmond2380]

Thank you soo much for this stream! One of the most valuable post from your channel for me in a long time!

[@Idahopainter]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@MikeWitmerNatureJournal]

Every sub we ever used commented that they made more money working with me than they ever did in their lives. Some of these guys had been painting for 20-30 years. They just had not established good clientele so were not staying busy. We treat them well and pay is just a part of the picture. We are also very selective about who we use. Being a sub allows a certain amount of autonomy which most people appreciate.

[@Kingconquest89]

They make more upfront but the taxes in the backend can eat you up. Sometimes it’s not worth it to have to worry about saving a third of your income.

[@electricsolution6294]

Keep up the good work love the content .

[@Clint.Abrams]

I’ve learned from watching your video’s! Thank you man 🎉

[@Idahopainter]

Happy to help!

[@dronlline]

I subcontract because I’m not media savvy. I recently hired a marketing company with success for a premium $. I am very interested in finding out how you market and get work just as discussed in the video to be more independent. Great content thanks 👍

[@Unchristian]

I’m assuming the MN company you are referring to is Paris Painting. A big part of why they are so successful is that the the VP of painting spent years painting. He has mentioned to me that the only reason he isn’t still painting is because he is able to have more value and influence where he is at now. It helps prevent the disconnect that often happens between subs and owners who have never done the actual work.

[@Iamleach23]

im a subcontractor i think its good for the trade with the right boss, its great for someone who is new to the trade and in my case completely green i take work serious so its good practice while you perfect your craft then get my experience, get photos for advertisement for future reference when ready to start a business

[@therealkakitron]

Be careful with using the photos for your business advertisement because legally it wasn't YOUR business that did the job. Even if you were the person who physically did it, the legal credit of the product belongs to the company that had the contract, not you.

[@feddy11100]

I've got a newbie question. I just bought the Graco project painter Plus airless sprayer. In the directions it says that you shouldn't use above a .15 tip, the primer that we got suggests using a .17. Should I just thin the paint, or can I still use the larger tip? I don't understand why they say not to use larger tips, and they don't explain.. is it going to hurt something, or will it just spay poorly?

[@therealkakitron]

This is making the subs sound like poor abused children who are being taken advantage of, but in reality most of them do sub work only AFTER they've already tried their luck being independent and realizing how much is involved in getting steady work and growing their business. For starters, many suck at sales and customer service. They don't know their numbers at all and can't estimate costs / prices accurately even if their lives depended on it. They don't want to pay things like insurance. They don't want to pay to be accredited by the BBB. They think is foolish to spend money on advertising. They realize lining up new jobs while they're physically painting at a job site is easier said than done... and sure, perhaps they'd get to keep all the profit from jobs they got on their own, but after they're done with that job, then what? They often go for days or weeks without another one because they couldn't sell while they were working. That's when reality hits them and realize they can make more money earning 50% on jobs that are coming in steadily by someone who in the meantime put in the work lining them up for them and takes care of all the administrative and customer service stuff. It's a win for all involved.

[@gianthills]

I was a subcontractor for a painter who was always late paying and bounced a cheque once. Terrible..and I hated having to deal with reports to the government. I hated it. In another situation, it was better, but still not great. They use subs because they are cheaper than employees. At the time I had no car, so I was limited to work in town. Ive been working in paint union full time doing commercial and lots of guys do cash residential jobs on the side, but the challenge of doing your own business is getting enough work.

[@alejandrosantillan299]

It’s a hard one, some companies for example I subcontract work for Multifamily home renovations. And we only get paid for labor per lumsum per property.supply housing during project. And we supply labor,our tools,our transportation.

[@hectorlambaren570]

Do you recommend any Insurance for work comp? That covers the owner?

[@gianthills]

the overhead expenses may not justify the amount of work I can find. im new to this since covid. worked in tv industry as a set painter and plasterer last year and been a sub as a residential painter this year.

[@rpainter6862]

Some bosses by the subs very little but the worse business owners have 1 or 2 EMPLOYEES and charge $100 dollars per hour and pay the painter 17-20 dollars an hour

[@3MInteresantisimo]

I am sub. I not get cover if a get hurt. Other think so far the last 2 year the contract not rise the price for sub and we are getting frustrating for they position. So what I did say no when I see low price

[@carloscastellanos5852]

Hello from Springdale Arkansas

[@trentclark4754]

Many company’s run a 100% sub firm. I own/operate a exterior siding/paint door/window company. I spend many mornings with my local contractor supply house picking up material for the day with all the local subs in my city & most of the work is subbed out. Benefits is you just show up & work. No material no selling, but the trade off is less money. MOST CUSTOMERS DO NOT KNOW MOST WORKERS ARE SUB CONTRACTORS When the customers find out they are paying more money to fund a salesman paycheck they get very upset. Many customers do not understand that any company they see advertising for are salesman that have never done work themselves, they are professional bullshi***. I started as a sub but as I grew my company I now source all my own jobs. The customers work out better, they are happy with one person sells & works the job, not 2-4 different people throughout the process. One of my biggest challenges is the information that gets lost between the customer-salesman-sub contractor- back to customer. And when that info gets left out the customer gets the back end. Most sub company’s run a 40/30/30 model. So the salesman earn the same the sub, I have a few friends in sales also friends with a 100% sub firm company so I am on the inside. My experience- go sell your own jobs, any lapse in work lose will be made up two fold by the work you do bring in yourself. Thanks for reading Trent from Ohio ~Clark Home Renovations~

[@ronjerry1809]

Thanks! What about photos/videos of the work? I'm trying to build our business and it's my work? Can i use these from projects I work?

[@carloschavira1788]

how much you charge per square inch

[@source4painting1]

I make double the money off my subcontractors than I do my employees, and I do about 20% of the work. Insurance is a bit higher though. The quality is just as good, and the customers are just as happy. Yes. Plumbers and Electricians also subcontract work. All the trades have subcontractors.

[@Idahopainter]

Thanks for sharing

[@macscarface3245]

Weird use of term. Where I am, a subcontractor is any crew on a job that isn't the General when there is a General involved. I guess sub-contracting out can make the taker a subcontractor, but that's a loose term. I think its one of those things that is 2 different things but are the same words if that makes sense. I do work for HomeAdvisor now Angi Leads, they do not contract out anything they're more of a Lead Broker if you will. That doesn't make me a subcontractor. What would make me a subcontractor, is if there's a General Contractor, hiring me to do the work that he does not do, or if there is painting contractor who hires me to do some work. Also not making me a subcontractor, only for that Job. I don't understand the being a subcontractor thing literally doesn't make sense like quite literally. On the other hand I can understand the flip side where a Contractor is hiring subs to perform the work , but where I am that contractor would still need to have the knowledge and proper licenses to do this. It could be the same case in other places i'm not sure.

[@patrickwilliam9658]

I loved the channel, very good indeed. I'm from Brazil, I'm 19 years old, I'm starting in the field of painting, I realized that the American painting culture is light years ahead of ours. I would like to know if there is a possibility of a partnership or sponsorship for me. would be grateful to expand your brand in another nation

[@taylorharrison3585]

Ahhhhhh! I have so much to say about being a sub on an island.

[@marioherrera08]

Hi. What color is that room? Thanks!

[@Idahopainter]

intelectual gray

[@jesserademacher598]

I'm a sub contractor And I think painting contractors that use subcontractors pretty much. Have you signed a con agreement which should be illegal so they? Can commit fraud. Against the government? By. Not paying your taxes or your comp and insurance and then they only give you enough money or work through the year that averages to be a payroll wage.

[@jesserademacher598]

Plus they sell the job as a super quality job and then the subcontractor gets twenty percent maybe forty Which ends up equally into a twenty five dollar an hour pay roll pay

[@Idahopainter]

Thanks for sharing

[@rogg2020]

Only when I’m slow I will jump on with a subcontractor paint company but lately I am very busy with work . I am also a one man show with many homes I have painted solo ! Im not afraid to work on my own

[@Idahopainter]

Thanks for your input

[@alwaysrockn2009]

Rock on dude!

[@kristinabutler3969]

@@Idahopainter What happens when I have started my own company but started out working for a subcontractor for another painting company who had three other subcontractor. All 4 of us filled out 1099s but we get paid hourly with a clock in app and unpaid 30min lunch. The painting company we work for provides all material and work shirts. Should he technically be paying us as an actual employee? I have other jobs I do on the side aside from ‘ THIS’ company I’m suppose to work Monday-Friday 30-40+ hours sometimes (I personally have not gotten to get that many hours in). But in conclusion just wondering if were really subcontractors or should we technically be filling out a w-4 as an employee. No paid over time or not paid per job.

[@TheRealE805]

Data data data. Should be collected at all times even when working for another company or employer.

[@paintpaintpaintco.6039]

This is how contractors make money by using subs…you tell them x will cost 3,000 the contractor will tell the customer x will cost 6,000. Or the other way around they say “we will pay you 3k” but they have already told the customers 6k.

[@paintpaintpaintco.6039]

So you paint the customers project, give them a $3,000 job…they expect a $6,000 job. Want to make someone a bunch of money, let someone else be the middle man between you and the customers.

[@paintpaintpaintco.6039]

Never lower your price for a contractor, if anything raise them

[@grimreefer213]

Knock on the door and tell em who you are!

[@jamespritchard165]

Only if I knew them and the quality of their work. Yes always pay taxes , agreed.

[@jesserademacher598]

Don't mind me it's a touchy subject

[@Idahopainter]

Yep

[@jhljhl2207]

Everyone around me is sub contracting everything

[@doomslayerforever2858]

I got offered to be a sub and they said you use your own equipment and men we provide the paint and wear their shirts We pay you $40 an hour. I'm pretty sure if your too slow to milk it they will get rid of you.

[@paintpaintpaintco.6039]

Get rid of them, how long does it take you to paint a room? Let’s say 5 hours? That’s only $200 per room …that’s how much we charge to paint 4 standard doors!!!

[@doomslayerforever2858]

@@paintpaintpaintco.6039 I won't work for less than $450 a room

[@jesserademacher598]

The contractor wins because he takes too big of a percentage from the subcontractor and the subcontractor ends up equally a payroll wage and has to. Pay his own insurance taxes And comp. In my opinion it is a con to the government the subcontractor and the client that they are doing the work for. They're defrauding the government by not Paying Taxes cop insurance They're committing fraud against a subcontractor because at the end of the year it equals to a payroll pay. And they're defrauding the client becausequality isn't cheap and if you're paying a subcontractor an hourly wage then you're probably not. Gonna get high quality cause a subcontractor didn't quit his payroll job to make a payroll wage.. These contracts that these bigger companies have the subcontractors sign are a munipulation. Of the law determined subcontractor or employee. If anything there should be a new bill where these big companies can only take 10 to 15%. Cause anything more than that is highway robbery. Sorry if I sound frustrated in my texts but I am a subcontractor and i've painted for twenty two years. And I paint for many people.. But they always want you to just work for them and then they always want to pay you the minimum amount Possible. The painting industry is a tough business these days because of these bigger companies with no painting experience hiring the subcontractors with all the experience and then not. Utilizing them to their full capability and taking 60 to 80% of the invoice or work order and leaving the subcontractor with 20 to 40% which. Is garbage and it should be outlawed in my opinion..

[@Idahopainter]

Thanks for your thoughts

[@jesserademacher598]

Don't mind my ranting it's just a touchy subject Most contractors pay sub contractors an hourly rate Such as a payroll rate and it makes a subcontractor furious at times. The subcontractors lose unless they find a good Painting contractor. I have plenty of examples 2015. I painted 1.6 million square feet for $32000. And that's. One point six million dollars minimum add a dollar a square foot. So I deal with a lot of b s from painting contractors not so much from builders. But it's hard to get in with buildeas they already have painters. I paint all my houses as if they were my own house. And painting contractor companies the big ones that just hire subs they lose quality. 1/2 the time they're overhead is not needed. They're paying people to just relay information to another person and another person then to sub then Homeowner. And most subcontractors and big painting companies don't Under stand the difference between painting and fine finish painting. But I do agree with what you say in the video.

[@jesserademacher598]

Painting companies that hire subs are a con as all they do is market and have project managers which is a waste of money. They take sixty to eighty percent end up leaving the subcontractor with a hourly pay roll rate Should be illegal as their community fraud against the government. The subcontfactor and the homeowner homeowner because they're saying they're getting a quality product but quality comes with pay. You don't get quality if you don't pay the person right to produce the quality. I mean I make $30 on a payroll. I quit my job to be a subcontractor not to get jobs subcontracted to me for an average of twenty five an hour. And I believe subcontractor there's no difference between a subcontractor and a contractor. Those are 2 terms to take advantage of a person. The painting market is crooked and big painting companies are a joke . They're charging a customer Thousands of dollars to bid a job they take too much profit from the actual That's doing the work.

[@Idahopainter]

Thanks for sharing

[@mightydook]

Just run good quality subs 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@hattrick257]

Subs > employees

[@Idahopainter]

LOL

[@ryanm2637]

Stop clicking your pen!!!

[@Idahopainter]

OK

[@jesserademacher598]

Like i'm trying to watch this video but you guys are rambling on about like nothing to do with the video

[@Idahopainter]

OK,