Haste: The Optimal Way to Play Blood DK + Phase 1 BIS | Cata Classic

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[@SubtleFW]

The real haste rating number for 7.5 sec rune regen is 1423, which I forgot to include in the video but thought the 1450 number would be easier for people to remember and hitting an exact amount doesn't matter much. The rune regen formula is: Rune Regen = 10 / ((1 + haste% / 100) * (1 + haste buff% / 100))

[@cedricdesrosiers-trudel976]

tyvm

[@Mecton666]

Does that take into account the 10% haste from improve Icy Talons? So you end up around 22% haste

[@GSol17]

I'm assuming Goblin racial doesn't interact with this in any meaningful way.

[@SubtleFW]

@@GSol17 Goblin racial unfortunately doesn't affect rune regen but troll racial does

[@SubtleFW]

@@Mecton666 the 10% melee haste buffs don't affect rune regen

[@bugrakarasu7113]

You are a genius man.

[@rarepepe4849]

nothing genius about looking at what top players on logs are doing

[@Nottherapist]

Hey I'm currently running the haste build with your bis gear list. I'm able to reach 2000 haste with 97% mastery. Should I drop haste for mastery at this point?

[@SubtleFW]

@@Nottherapist I've been playing around with 2000+ haste and definitely prefer it

[@PerzyYT]

Question for you as it relates to this build strictly for 5-man heroics: It is my understanding that the highest level mob in Heroic Dungeons is 87. Therefore you need a much lower hit and expertise rating to hit the cap. To get more value out of my stats, can I aim get 0.00% Miss/Dodge/Parry change for level 87 mobs instead of 88 (I'm referring to the values when you hover over Hit Chance/Expertise in the character window)? That would give me a ton of extra secondary stats to play around with. Thanks for the guide!

[@SubtleFW]

@@PerzyYT Yah for pure 5 man heroics you'll just aim for 6% hit and 24 expertise

[@PerzyYT]

@@SubtleFW great thanks, I’m still gearing up to 346/359 so I’m doing mostly heroic/dungeon grinding so having a much lower hit/expertise cap means I can try this haste style much earlier. I’m having a ton of fun with it topping the DPS charts almost every dungeon. I do however feel bad for every healer I get, my health is so volatile it’s nuts. In rare occasions, I can be killed almost instantly compared to the mastery build if the healer isn’t paying attention.

[@F1WW13]

well fuck...

[@Alleboom]

Thanks for the vid Subtle!

[@I_Crit_My_Pants]

This works especially well for soloing old raids, with a slight tweak. Stamina>Haste to 7.5second Rune CD>Expertise soft cap>hit cap>mastery>dodge/parry, try it out at Kel'Thuzad 10man and Lord Marrowgar 10man. Just soloed both on 10man myself today, have no heroic raid gear in Cata Classic at all.

[@samdonald741]

You just made our tank start rolling on dps gear 😢

[@Modelicco]

Where can I find your talents

[@Djayd103]

What’s old is new again.

[@klabauterbaer]

I'll have to tell our BDK about that, thanks.

[@MathewBauer-t3d]

But one of your highest healing parses is with only 142 haste and full mastery stacked gear? Seems like rng is a bigger factor than haste vs mastery in that case especially with only a couple resets worth of data

[@SubtleFW]

Yah since they're so close that RNG can swing it either way it's not worth investing in the stat that only gives you healing. Mastery would need to give a significant healing advantage to be worthwhile over haste

[@xibez109]

do you have a link to that CD WA under your target frame? Great video

[@SubtleFW]

That's Method Raid Tools and you can find my profile here: docs.google.com/document/d/1nT_T-yuWXnp3TL-qyr_gCRFg7-s2rx1nNhN7v4LIrZo/edit?usp=sharing

[@ikhsanhadinugraha8907]

hey this is a very good video, My DK maybe after at least clear all heroic at my guild will build Haste too , but may I know what weakauras you use to show skills like hand of protection, hand of sac and pain sup that are on top of raidframes? Thanks!

[@SubtleFW]

Hey that addon is called Method Raid Tools

[@ikhsanhadinugraha8907]

@@SubtleFW ahh that addon, ok thanks!

[@CoachFykling]

Banger video!

[@Pshyic1027]

Great video, thanks for the content, what do you use for the abilities scrolling at the bottom of the screen?

[@SubtleFW]

Thanks! This is it: wago.io/RvbxkQEv2/19

[@thobiasn.2952]

Just getting started on my dk, do you recommend building some avoidance for starters or just go this route right away? I mean with justice points and valor and even auction house gear? Great stuff mate

[@SubtleFW]

@@thobiasn.2952 yah I'm building new DKs with haste immediately. Here's my pre-bis sixtyupgrades.com/cata/set/8PUMvGwgy2zwVxKqcFjTPH

[@thobiasn.2952]

@@SubtleFW Wicked! Thanks 🔥

[@roguenationsuuhx]

How did you reforge for hit cap? are you reforging mastery for hit?

[@SubtleFW]

Avoidance and then mastery yah

[@Skatedonut1847]

i mean isnt it obvious u are rank one on logs since most dks get some kind of avoidance that isnt reflected on their healing since its damage avoided, but if you added all the damage that was avoided to healing wouldnt they be on par or superior? Idk man this video is giving me an identity crisis. to be or not to be hmm

[@Psykogora]

Great vid Subtle! I’m curious how much the blood spec changes with this information.

[@SubtleFW]

Thanks! The basics don't really change, you just have less dead time in the rotation

[@derkreuzritter6789]

Is ashkandi better than Akirus for bdk? I'm the only one who can use it in my 10m but unsure if it's even worth due to no mastery

[@SubtleFW]

@@derkreuzritter6789 Yah little bit better. Lose a little bit of healing for a good chunk of damage. It's really rare but if you can get one definitely scoop it

[@derkreuzritter6789]

@@SubtleFW Alright sweet, thanks for the quick reply

[@draanexle]

how do you properly reforge for this build?

[@SubtleFW]

With reforgelite i do hit at least to cap, exp at least to soft cap, haste 100, and mastery 70

[@andrewmays4385]

Where can i find your talent build?

[@SubtleFW]

This is the standard build: www.wowhead.com/cata/talent-calc/death-knight/03323202130222311311-3-003_001sy811s7r21s9d31s9h41s7z51sxz61s8g71sxb81sxd and this is what I use for solos and 10m raids: www.wowhead.com/cata/talent-calc/death-knight/23323203102222111311-3-003

[@jamie5mauser]

What is the expertise soft and hard caps?

[@SubtleFW]

Sodt is 26 and hard is 56

[@LuumWoW]

Is the 1450 number base or including hunter's raid buff?

[@SubtleFW]

Hunter buff doesn't affect rune regen

[@LuumWoW]

@@SubtleFW ah ok so I want 1450 haste from my own gear then

[@SubtleFW]

@@LuumWoW yah, actual number is 1423 but just somewhere around 7.5 rune regen on the char sheet is great

[@TinoLuppart]

Hey Subtle, again great content! Thanks for that. Can you share your preset for reforging?

[@SubtleFW]

Hey thanks! I haven't gotten around to using reforgelite but I promise I'll stop being lazy soon

[@PerzyYT]

Any update on this? Would love to know how to reforge

[@k0nar1k55]

With the haste trinket that drops from ascendant consil you'd get almost 2k more haste for 15 seconds after it procs. Would that be anyway useful if you already have the 1423 haste or would it be negligible?

[@SubtleFW]

Yah it's definitely useful. It generally procs at a time you have spent a lot of runes, so it kinda just guarantees full GCD use for its duration

[@Semistone1]

Can someone send pawn string for reforgelite ?

[@Listen2Concentr8]

@subtlefw Question for your talent tree: Wouldn't it give more DPS to take 3/3 Virulence instead of 3/3 Toughness? :)

[@SubtleFW]

Yah if all you're trying to do is parse you wouldn't want to pickup toughness, but that isn't my personal goal

[@nogunk147]

Could you make an in-depth guide on focusing on Damage as Blood DK? I just swapped over to it and interested to see how to optimize well enough to be doing 40k+ dps like people on logs :)

[@SubtleFW]

Riyani actually made one recently and he's a lot more into parsing than I am: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqG2naGgjZ2niMUsi=Ov_w4aA1zlcnqkRc

[@Natsumoki6669]

I just noticed that you pick up runic power mastery over abomination's might and I was wondering why?

[@SubtleFW]

Bigger cushion for DS glyph and 1% str per point is pretty weak for a talent point

[@OfHellsDesigngaming]

I think you lose out on damage using DRW after OutBreak since the dot stacks for the whole duration and not just the time DRW is up.

[@SubtleFW]

Yah depends if the outbreak is replacing an unspent global for sure. If it's replacing some other things it may not be worth

[@ethanking2242]

Wow this changes everything

[@odium4777]

is more haste then 1450 better or then mastery?

[@char5631]

could you explain why every tank I see in raids are going for stam builds over the mastery build? I assume stam is better due to the harder fights being very heavy with magic damage?

[@SubtleFW]

Stam and mast provide similar hps since a high volume of death strikes are for the minimum 7% value, which both scale with. Mastery breaks away on higher death strikes since stam doesn't increase the healing of those, but there just aren't enough high value death strikes to justify losing all of the bonuses that come with stam

[@Calgar-xi7ph]

Plus higher stam gives a higher vengeance ceiling for more dps.

[@Doctoralexking]

Is it possible to have “too much” haste? Do you want to go for as much as possible? With my gear I can get up to 1630+ but not sure if it’s unnecessary…

[@freds5520]

You reckon haste build will surpass mastery build like this for all the Cata phases or just phase 1?

[@SubtleFW]

@@freds5520 probably but mastery gets better the fewer minimum heal Death Strikes we get, so if higher damage in later phases out paces hp increases and dtps decreases from armor/avoid then mastery will be better than it is now

[@SimmoDaYido]

Hey Subtle, Do you have a weak aura for the rotation for the haste build?

[@SubtleFW]

@@SimmoDaYido this is the WA I use but it doesn't tell you what to press wago.io/BWm3EeRU9

[@JoHa1337]

great information, look forward to trying this out on my dk, quick question: if you value stam more than mastery, why do you have the mastery+movespeed enchant on boots instead of the stam+movespeed?

[@SubtleFW]

It's mainly just for gems where you get 50% more stam per gem than secondaries

[@nowforsaken]

Do you use reforgelite for reforging or do you manually do it? If you do, what weights do you give everything?

[@SubtleFW]

Hit at least to cap, exp at leas to soft cap, 100 haste, 70 mastery

[@SimmoDaYido]

Hey Subtle, do you have a pre raid bis itemisation build also please?

[@SubtleFW]

Hey here you go sixtyupgrades.com/cata/set/8PUMvGwgy2zwVxKqcFjTPH

[@skykam9448]

Anyone got a string for reforge lite?

[@paulieiscool12345678]

Thanks for the video! Trying this out now on my 365 DK but had a question about 20% AP buff, I have a ret in my 10 man guild, would that allow me to drop one point in it and put 3 into scent of blood? If not, where can I get that last talent point to put into scent of blood because I am assuming that is pretty vital to the build but I could be wrong. Thanks in advance!

[@SubtleFW]

As long as you have a pally+druid or 2 pallies, they'll cover the % ap and % stats buff. If you only have 1 pally and no druid, then you'll need to bring the % ap buff yourself so the pally can do % stats. You can just take points out of BCB for the abom points if needed: www.wowhead.com/cata/talent-calc/death-knight/03323202130222311311-3-003_001sy811s7r21s9d31s9h41s7z51sxz61s8g71sxb81sxd

[@paulieiscool12345678]

@@SubtleFW Thank you!

[@velonaut303]

nice

[@fredriklerigon940]

From what I can c on the parses with great healing you refer to it seems its because you take more DTPS than other tanks at that ilv and even if you heal with one more hit it still mean you have to get more heals than in a "normal" build. If your healers can keep up with that extra healing its great since you get a huge damage advatage.

[@SubtleFW]

Yah exactly, the HPS offsets the DTPS. The only healing I generally get is beacon and hots

[@elusivenorman7498]

Im in a 10m guild and we dont always have a ret pally or mm hunter for the 10% AP buff is it too much of a grief to not run aboms might and if so what points would i take out for it ? Im guessing Blood-caked

[@SubtleFW]

You absolutely want to bring the 20% AP buff always. Just drop the blood caked blade points for it

[@elusivenorman7498]

@@SubtleFW thought so thanks

[@blueblockk]

Not looking forward to telling my guild I'll be needing haste + mastery pieces lol.

[@LameAssScreamoSinger]

Being the guild master has its perks, I guess :)

[@Frostshaitan]

yeah, thats my biggest issue... I raid 10 man, can only imagine what the ret pallies opinion on me wanting the 3 faultline pieces that are also his bis :P

[@SubtleFW]

Totally fine to pick up some of the other mast+avoid pieces and reforge haste until the mast+haste ones are more available in your raid

[@callahansimon18]

That’s why I pug tank on Sunday and only have a Druid Ankh and warrior off spec 😂

[@Mrbones27]

Man this would have been great Info two weeks ago before I finished my conquest grind.

[@tutube8992]

Awesome! Do you have any predictions of how this will evolve in future phases of Cata with higher ilvl gear?

[@bullogne3368]

Trying to theorycraft a dual wield version of this haste build, easy to hit haste cap with one or two dps pieces, but even if you add three talent points into the frost tree to get 3% added hit, the hit gap on the off hand seems like the trade off wouldn't be worth it. RIP hopes and dreams lol.

[@SubtleFW]

Yah with pretty much every ability being based on weapon damage, dual wield isn't gonna be too good

[@bullogne3368]

@@SubtleFW yeah, I had been curious because of the way blood worms and blood caked blade have a 10% chance to trigger, the idea of doubleing the bloodworms and BCB damage sounded cool. When I tried it on a target dummy though there was about a 2k dps loss and only had at most 2 blood worms up so I was a sad panda lol

[@unmye]

is this still the bis for BDK ??

[@SubtleFW]

Yah

[@unmye]

@@SubtleFW thanks ! I was confused by what phases mean, but after your 4 hour video it was more clear. Thanks Subtle :)

[@dvidnine]

Awesome video

[@kris4876]

Is this 1400 number including melee haste buff? Does the melee haste buff improve rune regen?

[@SubtleFW]

The melee haste buff doesn't affect it

[@SamCarries]

what is the expertise soft cap for us? 6.5%?

[@SubtleFW]

26 expertise / 6.5%. The char sheet is bugged and adds a % sign to expertise right now so it'll appear as 26% expertise there

[@sad_boo]

Can you post a link to the Phase 1 gear goals?

[@SubtleFW]

sixtyupgrades.com/cata/set/5qY9nJj4Bd1AoT6xsLdz4Y

[@bigkap8358]

why do u pref akyrus over ashkandi?

[@SubtleFW]

As mentioned in the video, both are fine depending on if you want a small damage boost or small healing boost but akirus will be much easier to get

[@edwardroberts739]

This is cool.

[@char5631]

do you have a reforgelite preset you could share?

[@SubtleFW]

I've been lazy and haven't used it yet but I need to

[@JarnoBerger]

Do you also prioritize stamina for 10 man? Feels like healing is more valuable when there is only 2 or 3 healers so would it be worth prioritizing mastery over stamina?

[@SubtleFW]

You get a lot more minimum death strikes on 10m since everything does way less damage, and stam scales min ds healing. So I still go stam since the healing difference is negligible and you get the other benefits of stam

[@VeGaS380]

Hello, quick question: according to you, the Stat prio is stam, hit, exp then haste.. wouldnt this mean to always go full stamina on gems since its Higher prio then haste? And shouldnt exp be lower on prio, since the runes of a parry get refunded?

[@SubtleFW]

@@VeGaS380 I'm going for total value with socket bonuses for any gem that isn't solid, and I prefer to land my attacks so I pickup expertise

[@redrav4233]

Runes are not refunded on dodge/parry.

[@Arma5666]

@@redrav4233 for some abilities it does refund, but not for death strike which is what matters

[@UlquiorraV]

Whats this WA you got for your skill order ?

[@SubtleFW]

wago.io/RvbxkQEv2

[@isak6802]

Would you say this is better for both 10 and 25 man?

[@SubtleFW]

Yah it'll be even better in 10 than 25 since you're getting more minimum death strikes, and it's already amazing in 25

[@Frostshaitan]

In your stat prio section you have Haste>Mastery, but then in the bis gear you reforge the haste into hit, instead of the mastery?

[@SubtleFW]

Yah already have

[@victorstorm7708]

What does RE and BT stands for?

[@SubtleFW]

@@victorstorm7708 Runic Empowerment and Blood Tap

[@victorstorm7708]

@@SubtleFW tyvm

[@nalby92]

i went full tank tier pieces except the leg is there any point to gemming those with haste? or should i stick to mastery for now until i have the gear to reach the cap?

[@SubtleFW]

@@nalby92 I'd still gem stam and just reforge for haste and add in haste pieces as you're able

[@nalby92]

@@SubtleFW another question, with the haste build do you still wait to drop in hp before death striking? or do u use it on CD?

[@SubtleFW]

On CD pretty much always

[@mmrxaaa377]

i see that you are using fallen crusader instead of stoneskin, is that always better?

[@SubtleFW]

Yah, stoneskin gargoyle should never be used. The healing and parry gained from fallen crusader makes up for the armor loss and you just get a ton of free damage

[@ofactor07]

@@SubtleFW is the strength gain better than the vengeance gained from extra stam?

[@SubtleFW]

Yah it's about 1k more AP depending on your gear

[@rehezin]

one day after i got 2 piece 372...tank set

[@SubtleFW]

rip

[@rehezin]

@@SubtleFW managed to get 7,61 rune regen by reforgin and gemming, go like that or keep mastery until i get dps parts?

[@SubtleFW]

Yah that's a great start. Just stick with that

[@jamie5mauser]

Rune of fallen Crusader or stoneskin gargoyle?

[@SubtleFW]

Fallen Crusader always

[@jamie5mauser]

@@SubtleFW thanks! what gems into red and yellow sockets? anything that could double for UH spec? or just need separate gear?

[@SubtleFW]

Guardian for red and forceful for yellow. You'd be fine doing str/haste too if it needs to be usable for both specs

[@dovideliezer]

Amazing! Is this true for 5 man heroics as well?

[@SubtleFW]

Yah

[@supaonyxian]

can we have the talent setup you use for this build aswell please

[@SubtleFW]

It's in the sixtyup link if you go to the Talents tab sixtyupgrades.com/cata/set/5qY9nJj4Bd1AoT6xsLdz4Y

[@supaonyxian]

@@SubtleFWthank you very much!

[@klauswolfbert]

Don't get why I should trust someone who doesn't even have 3 chars in the Top 3 over my sims.

[@SubtleFW]

LMAO

[@Altarknight]

i'm boomer gamer. and when i told my guild mates Cata Blood DK need Haste as secondari stats they think i was stupid ! ( and i proved it on raid my DK done best damage and healing )

[@Milk-rn5uq]

lets go! a real chad takes them to the lab. keep pumping beast!

[@MadProgger]

well with my guild, i first said i want to experiment with stats and reforged/regemmed a bit, and just showed them everything in action, and now they are convinced this is a viable approach

[@drunken7634]

I really like watching your videos for your in depth view on the tank pov. Any recommendations for prot pally, i'm typcally the main tank for my raid group and i'm just curious what you might recommend so i can hold my weight a little better.

[@SubtleFW]

I've been a fan of gemming/flasking stam until better gear. Once I have some 372 pieces I'll go the mastery gemming/elixir route. I just don't have the gear to get a ton of CTC atm, so having more hp to survive the unlucky moments seems best

[@drunken7634]

@@SubtleFW That's what i've been torn on at the beggining of the expansion, I wasn't sure if I should get as close to CTC as possible or focus stam. I've gotten my hit and exp to their caps, after that I wasn't sure what was the next best stat.

[@SubtleFW]

If you need the survival you can skip hit/exp soft cap but man it feels bad missing so much

[@drunken7634]

@@SubtleFW it really does! At least the 500% threat generation all tanks have kinda offsets that when a hit does land

[@xRip666x]

Feelsbadman now that I've gone full mastery and got the blood tier gloves and chest haha but alas I'm re-gemming tonight and re-reforging tonight and I'm not even fully normal raid geared yet so switching towards this haste focused gearing is gonna be coolio :)

[@fligisx9916]

And they called me stupid for gemming forceful week 1

[@SubtleFW]

VINDICATED

[@fligisx9916]

Was getting near 13 cpm on death strike with 600 haste in pre bis XD sadly had to reroll. Mastery stacking discord cucks can have the bigger blood shield with their 7 cpm death strikes lol

[@PoatontheClickingDK-ye7de]

funny, that this is out, when I went to the dk discord and was telling them to just stack haste/mastery they told me I was wrong and didn't know my class

[@SubtleFW]

The best players don't find the DK discord worth engaging with, so you're not going to get the best info there

[@jamie5mauser]

I’m finding with more haste and less avoidance, I’m getting less RSs off and capping on runic power. Tips?

[@SubtleFW]

@@jamie5mauser use RS at 70+ RP when you have nothing else to press and you shouldn't really cap RP

[@togacuba8692]

Are u playing with prot pally on cata ? bc i saw a lot of pallys without expertice, hit only focus on Mastery so Idk

[@SubtleFW]

I've been playing it a little, only 11/13 heroic on prot pally so far though. The lack of expertise and hit definitely feels bad and I'm gonna try to work some in once I have better gear

[@ovarb1851]

So isn’t this the same problem as disc priest in wrath? Mastery gives you a better over shield which doesn’t show up on meters or parses. So is raw healing just better, or is it better to take less damage overall??

[@SubtleFW]

Blood shield shows up as healing on meters/logs

[@ovarb1851]

Ohh really?!? Awesome thanks for the knowledge!!!! The second I think I have this shit figured out I find out I’m wrong lol!

[@ovarb1851]

@@SubtleFW❤

[@ligerzerojag]

How do you feel about Heart of Solace trinket since its haste+strength proc. Would it be worth giving up say alchemy trinket or worm for it to better hit the haste soft cap.

[@SubtleFW]

It's a great trinket if you don't need the stam from other trinkets

[@ZeroX252]

It's funny I got shit on for mentioning that haste wasn't a dead stat for BDK in cata simply because I main caster dps. Pretty vindicating to see this tbh. Haste actually has good value for prot paladins, and their mitigation isn't nearly as bad as people's assumption, too. We're starting to see some of the top guilds pick them up. Plus they have mostly uncontested loot needs.

[@SubtleFW]

Haste is definitely great for BDK! I haven't really kept up on haste performance for prot pallies, but the old sims had it as the worst DPS stat by quite a bit

[@rvalle11]

i find prot pallies are really really clutch at handling a lot of adds. Haste allows me to secure the aggro on adds that are spread out or very distant from each other. Its really clutch and i find that it is so consistent since i can hammer way more. idk if im placebo but i really did like specing into it over no haste.

[@Fadekiller1]

surely dk Healing is gonna get nerfed to bring other tanks onpar with BDK

[@ImperialRatKing]

can't wait to see the boomer tears in the dk discord lmao

[@SubtleFW]

I dont read it but I just see the screenshots people send me and man oh man are the tears flowing

[@PejtuJoker]

Pointless in my opinion going out of your way for haste

[@SubtleFW]

oh ok

[@andreaskvaloy]

Doesn't sound very convincing when you're not the guy at the top

[@PejtuJoker]

@@andreaskvaloy so what

[@420OngBak]

@@PejtuJoker So you're an idiot from Blight Club. Homie put together a nearly 6 minute long video showing you the math and results and you just say "lol no" It's like having the opinion that 2+2 = 3