Sugar Ray Robinson vs Rocky Graziano

Robinson defends his middleweight title against former champion Rocky Graziano.

[@dannymcgood]

Shut the hell up about Mayweather for a minute and respect Sugar Ray, as a fighter and a person. And for the things he did in the ring that were way beyond what we could imagine..

[@ericday4505]

These are great fights where is this kind of boxing today, Robinson a little past his prime but still deadly against Graziano who was a hell of a fighter classic stuff.

[@samhsu7308]

Sugar ray Robinson is the greatest fighter and is pound for pound#1

[@jakemachine2686]

Jake Lamotta was better

[@nobodyaskedbut]

Robinson's defeated competition separates him from everyone else. He defeated 11 different champions an astounding 23 times. In addition he won vs 48 opponents who defeated a champion at least once. That's 71 wins vs champions or championship caliber opponents. More wins than Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Ray Leonard, Hagler or Louis each had for their ENTIRE careers.

[@elizabethlinsay9193]

WOW!

[@nycinstyle]

Sugar Ray Robinson never lost a welterweight bout, and he had about 100 of them. Robinosn was world welterweight champ, as well. Beat contenders like Kid Gavilan and Charlie Fusari.

[@toopkarcher4941]

The blend of speed and power is just insane o.O the ring IQ also.. This man is as sweet as sugar! But Graziano has some heart.

[@ClarenceHW]

Absolutely! used to watch these with my dad but didn't appreciate the power and finesse of Sugar Ray!

[@redjam40]

Cont2: Can you imagine if he was fighting in todays rules of boxing which is 10 rounds. He would be licking his lips, and rubbings his hands. 15 ROUNDS were the order of the day when he fought.

[@saintcruzin]

Imagine Ali with ko power in both hands. Ali aspired to be a heavyweight Sugar Ray.

[@trvth1s]

Ali is overrated. Ali had unnecessary footwork, he over did it and burnt extra energy on it. Ali also had atrocious defense, simply atrocious [thus he has Parkinson now]. Sugar Ray was considered a ring master in his day and by ring master i mean the most technical fighter in his division. Like Mayweather today at 147lbs, Guillermo Rigo at featherweight, or like Leonard at 147lbs in the 80's. What set Robinson apart from the other ''ring masters'' is that when a swarmer or brawler tried to roughen him up he had power to finish them as shown here. Robinson didn't always need to punch twice, move & clinch, He could bang. Ali could not bang. Robinson would have NEVER had 200 pro fights without a ko loss if he had Ali's ATROCIOUS defense.

[@saintcruzin]

Ali's defense was his speed on the outside. Unfortunately we were robbed of his prime, those 3 1/2 years would have been his best. When he came back he was much slower. I've said my entire life that Ray Robinson was the best ever. I saw him live KO Fulmer with one left hook when he was well past his prime.

[@AlwaysRight83]

Ray was a complete fighter. He got hit because he was such an offensive fighter. But he won many fights using his jab, height, intelligence and reach. He was a very smart fighter. You have clearly not watched enough of his fights. He outboxed boxers and out punched punchers. He could beat you at your own game. That is how good he was. He was in his prime at Welterweight and unfortunately there is limited footage of his welterweight fights.

[@Indervallervooooooo]

Ray really unleashed everything when he had rocky on the ropes

[@a9from232]

Robinson is my idol, he's just a perfect boxer. I honestly don't think there will ever be another like him.

[@TheChoice264]

I'm starting to read some of your other comments and i now realize that you know absolutely NOTHING about the history of Boxing. Listen, why don't you do some good thorough research on Boxing and EVERYTHING about it. Talk to people whose been there and done that, and get a good understanding of the thing before you come back and say such foolish things born from your imagination. If SRR were fighting today he'd be the biggest star in all of sports including Tiger Woods. He would be unbeatable.

[@ericday4505]

Mr. Hefner I agree 100 percent the sport is sadly not what it used to be, Ray fought some very good fighters and in the case of Jake a warrior, I was making the point that Aaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello in their two lengendary fights took the sport to great excitement and they both get credit to me, because they had the balls to fight twice, and I love them both for it ,fight fans still talk about those fights, sad that Floyd and Pac did not get it on,so sad.

[@TheChamp0425]

Rocky Graziano was washed up when he fought Sugar Ray Robinson. He didn't have that great right hand of his in a long time. He wasn't even the same in his last fight with Tony Zale. He attempted a great comeback though.

[@pasnthr6251]

Boxers need to beat up people in ring to get their lust and desire to hurt people legally..and then take the brutality of hits In return for punishment

[@robertbrown7147]

Mayweather is not in this man's class he had it all

[@chayilel9804]

poetry in motion

[@alastor2322]

Sweet as sugar-he looked like the greatest pound for pound here-vicious puncher and a beautiful mover-and Graziano looked as tough as they come

[@HowardHughes33]

Great performance by the greatest p4p boxer of all time against one of the toughest and best fighters of his day. Graziano gave a spirited effort as always and he did land a couple of good shots got Robinson's respect (although he never seemed really hurt in the fight). But in the end he was simply outclassed by the best man who ever laced up a pair of gloves. No shame in that! Great finish by Robinson; that knockout was simply amazing with its power speed and precision.

[@ldiddynyc]

Man he dealt with Rocky's pressure like it was easy business. That parry and slip to the right before the ko was a beautiful move!!!

[@johnnys8003]

Sugar Ray Robinson - THE BEST! No one can match his style, his pace, his power and his grace. A humble man with a god given gift to Box.

[@Christofides1]

@IAmBoxing1 Can't tell if Floyd would of outboxed him or no, Floyd hasn't proved himself against anyone great let alone of Robinsonss calibre, and there's next to no footage of Robinson fighting at Welterweight which was his prime. Ali is not better then Robinson lol, Ali is possibly the most technically flawed ATG, if he took what Robinson had (Which is everything) and made it better you really need to watch more Robinson =.=.

[@brasmussen81]

Look at that mouthpiece go flying! Sure is nice to finally see these fights after having only read about them in Ray's book way back in Jr. High

[@THISISLolesh]

Yeh he is.. I assume so anyway. Graziano is a hall of famer so theres no reason he wouldnt crack top 50.. If you are related to him, thats cool you should be very proud he was a tough tough man.

[@Christofides1]

@IAmBoxing1 Lol what ? I really think you should take another look at Robinsons resume if you think he only thought bums and Ray Leonards if you think he fought bums :/.

[@jasonwilliams1519]

Its why they call it the sweet science.

[@slice39]

Damn!!!! Somebody in the 12th row had a helluva souvenir when Ray knocked that mouthpiece out of Rocky's mouth at the end of the fight. Geez what a right hand!!!

[@sherom]

Ray was the best pound for pound...Great boxer, devastating puncher !!!

[@TheGreatA]

Sure, LaMotta was a beast. Jorge Castro a poor man's LaMotta at best went the distance with Roy and gave him some trouble.

[@undeadpresident]

robinson's footwork is so smooth its insane he just floats

[@mejiaczr32]

This dude and the pac-man would of been THE DREAM FIGHT!

[@TheGreatA]

Or like saying Muhammad Ali would beat most of today's heavyweights. Oh wait...

[@ClarenceHW]

Robinson: Rabbit punch me will'ya, Graziano punished and disposed of. Those rabbit punches were really a sign of disrespect, glad to see Robinson school Rocky. Robinson was ahead of his time, influenced all modern fighters.. great to see these old B&W videos. thanks for posting.

[@swordfishjon]

1. Roberto Duran 33% 2. Henry Armstrong 22% 3. Floyd Mayweather 14% World’s Greatest Ever Featherweight 1. Manny Pacquaio 56% 2. Willie Pep 15% 3. Salvador Sanchez 8% World’s Greatest Ever Bantamweight 1. Wilfredo Gomez 32% 2. Ruben Olivares 12% 3. Carlos Zarate 10% World’s Greatest Ever Flyweight 1. Ricardo Lopez 27% 2. Jimmy Wilde 20% 3. Michael Carbajal 12%

[@toopkarcher4941]

1:17 wow… Like 5 rabid punches in a row..

[@swordfishjon]

World’s Greatest Ever Middleweight 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 47% 2.Marvin Hagler 24% 3. Bernard Hopkins 12% World’s Greatest Ever Welterweight 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 39% 2. Sugar Ray Leonard 36% 3. Oscar de la Hoya 10% World’s Greatest Ever Lightweight

[@salvadoramaya8642]

Rocky won alot of fights because his opponents couldn't take the punches he he could,but you get a real fighter like Sugar and it's all over for him. He was just too much for him. He could take a punch tho

[@TheGreatA]

There is no film of Robinson weighing 145 pounds.

[@Quicknsick]

Great knockout by the TRUE greatest of all times. According to Jake Lamotta's book. He and Graziano was in the same boys home together where Lamotta beat down 3 of the guards at the same time. The priest of the establishment a seasoned fighter himself took Jake under his wing and taught him how to box and the rest is history. Ironic how Rocky took this fight considering Jake offered him a shot at his title when he was champ but Graziano declined saying he dont wanna be champ.

[@Tusc9969]

Again,Floyd is a great boxer, who can counter punch. JMM is a supreme counter puncher who likes to fight. Floyd does not counterpunch like Marquez does.JMM has a different punch selection and he never blocks, parry or shoulder roll.JMM simply takes a quick step back and fires like a SOB in different punch sequences. Jab, uppercut, hook. Hook. Uppercut,uppercut.I'm not saying that Floyd isn't capable of doing what Marquez did.All I'm saying is Marquez and Floyd are naturally different fighters.

[@Transformers217]

@Tusc9969 Look at Floyd's earlier fights from the last 90's. He use to have a fantastic knock out ratio, because of his aggression. He's a great counter puncher, and a conservative boxer. But he knows how to fight, and punch with his opponent. Look at his fight against Jesus Chavez. Mayweather can adapt to any style, while Pacquiao has a tough time adapting to great counter punchers. Counter punching is Pacquiao's kryptonite, and that's why I pick Mayweather.

[@Tusc9969]

@Transformers217 Like I said, Pac and Roach held a press confrernce stating their side is aiming for Floyd. Floyd hasn't called out Pac until NOW! Floyd said this morning in an interview that he is now ready to sign up for the fight against Pac on May 5. Arum confirmed yesterday that both sides are negotiating. While this may seem like happy news, I wont hold my breath until Floyd signs the dotted line...I hope he doesn't come out with MORE excuses to break out of the negotiation!

[@Tusc9969]

Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree, everyone who has two eyes and can see will tell you that Floyd is conservative/safe fighter,he is not agressive but he is accurate with his 1-2's and pot shots..Numbers dont lie..look it up! Floyd danced around Baldomir until the people started to walk away towards the end of the fight,then in an interview he stated he had hurt his hand"supposedly" which why he fought that way.The outcome of Floyd vs Pac is all speculation, I just want to see them fight!

[@Transformers217]

@Tusc9969 Mayweather used combinations against Baldomir, Hatton, Mosley, and Ortiz. And Gatti wasn't a shot fighter, he was just mediocre. And Floyd has become an aggressive fighter in his most recent fights. He's a great boxer, but he can be very aggressive. And Pacquiao won't really attack Mayweather, he'll just try to box him, and that's why he'll lose. Because you can't box Mayweather.

[@Tusc9969]

@Transformers217 just last week before thanksgiving, Roach stated that the only fight he's interested in is w/mayweather.Look it up.Floyd has been making more excuses than anyone out there not to fight Pac. First excuse was "Pac aint on my level", 2nd excuse "Pac needs to call me out first" 3rd excuse "I don't need Pac" 4th excuse "Pac has to take blood test" 5th excuse (right after floyd came out of retirement beat Marquez) "I will go on vacation for awhile" There's been a pattern of excuses!

[@tw69hands2]

@MarchalRaines9 : Tyson abandoned the team that brought him to the top and stopped training hard and practicing hard. He actually lived out Cus D'Amato's axiom about one's greatest strength becoming one's greatest weakness. Tyson never could address his own self-destructive tendencies.

[@Tusc9969]

@Transformers217 No, ever since he hurt his hand back in the day he rarely uses combinations anymore.Study his recent fights..He rarely uses combinations only when his opponents are tired or not punching back.....Notice how Gatti hardly punched back, he was a shot fighter and Floyd took advantage w/combinations because he knew gatti would not return them. But when he's in the ring with a guy trying to knock his head off, he counters w/pot shots!Everybody knows Floyd's not an aggressive fighter!

[@Transformers217]

@Tusc9969 Floyd called Pacquiao for May 5th. And after the Marquez fight, Freddie Roach doesn't really want Pacquiao to fight Mayweather. Roach even said that he'd rather have Pacquiao fight a tuneup fight, instead of going straight to Mayweather. Mayweather and Pacquiao want to fight each other, but Arum might not be interested in having Pacquiao fight him. Mayweather has been interested in this fight for years. It's the Pacquiao camp that doesn't really want it to happen.

[@Transformers217]

@Tusc9969 Floyd also counter punches with flurries, and combinations. Look at his fight against Gatti, Castillo, Corrales, and even Judah. Mayweather does punch with his opponents, like with Baldomir, Judah, Delahoya, Hatton, and Mosley. Floyd doesn't throw a lot of punches, but he throws accurate, strong punches. His right hand is quick and very heavy-handed. While Pacquiao has a bad habit in walking into right hand punches. I think he'll definitely lose to Mayweather.

[@Tusc9969]

@Transformers217 I agree that Arum(like Floyd) is another thorn in the shoe for boxing fans that's keeping the best fight is 30 years from becoming a reality.However I disagree w/you about Roach, he wants this fight more than anything and has been calling out Floyd for awhile.And just today Pac had a press confrence in the phillipines stating that he's only aiming for floyd and nobody else. I hope Arum agrees and I hope Floyd doesn't come up w/more excuses!

[@Tusc9969]

Keep in mind that JMM and Floyd are two different counter-punchers. JMM counterpunches with "combinations" and agression while Floyd counters with pot shots. He does not punch WITH his opponents like JMM. Floyd only averages around 40-47 punches a round and that possibly won't be enough to stop a guy like Pac who throws twice that number. Again, I admit that it doesn't necessarily mean Floyd won’t beat Pac but it’s not a foregone conclusion from this fight. It’s a different set.

[@Transformers217]

@Tusc9969 I think it does. If Pacquiao can't handle a counter puncher like Marquez, then how can he stand up to somebody like Mayweather. Mayweather is A LOT better, faster, and bigger than Marquez. I think Pacquiao might look good in the earlier rounds, but after round 4, it's gonna be a Mayweather fight. It will be similar to Mayweather's fight with Judah. That's why Bob Arum and Roach don't really want Pacquiao to fight Mayweather. It's just too risky.

[@Tusc9969]

@Robstailey So let me get this straight...Pacquiao has a close difficult fight w/Marquez (which real boxing fans already knew it was going to be a tough battle) and all of a sudden people are either surprised by this or think Pac is an amateur fighter just because he went to distance w/Marquez...lol You young ppl today don't know crap about the sport. Styles makes fights and Pacquiao is a human person not superman. Just because Marquez knows how to fight Pac doesn't mean Floyd will do the same!

[@crawlFace]

I can easily agree that Sugar Ray Robinson was pound for pound the best. Ray gives you many styles, very versatile, huge punch power, great natural flow for counter-game as well, great speed, smart. That's what a legend is about, meaning no matter what happens with today's boxers the most they can do is share the ultimate stage with Ray. To me that's respect, to say so and so is one of the greats like Sugar Ray.

[@ajp135212]

@Mowglieboy69 well nowadays ppl will never admit when a person is better then the legends...look closley at floyd fight...u tell me have u ever seen floyd getting popped again and again by a slow ass jab???no he counters over them.. have u ever seen floyd throw such sloppy combos???no he throws them sharper.. have u ever seen floyd get hit as much as robinson has gotten hit?? no hes got way better defense...floyd is more technical and would catch robinson at will cuz hes so open look closley

[@ajp135212]

@iljn1988 im gong on what i see this is suppose to me the greatest?? i cant tell u one thing roy jones would whoop a guy comming in so easliy like lamotta look at roy jones fight...u will counter everything and if ur slow my goodness u stand no chance...srr wouldnt beat roy jones roy is muc much faster and much much sharper..i guess him fight 200 times is what makes him great and not so much what he does in the ring

[@ajp135212]

i dot think hes the best hes mad openand easy to counter i thought he would be better these fighters back then were not technical ive see robinson come in withn a haymaker frpm a distance and land it cuz these guys dont move there heads i kno no one would ever admit it but i dont think hes the best roy jones jr was much faster and had better head oevment and was much harder to hit..u never saw roy get hit with fluh jabs in his prime like this guy did

[@Tusc9969]

@Transformers217 We'll just have to agree to disagree on who's been calling who out and so forth and deep down I don't really care... I only care for the fight being made. It seems that fanbots from both sides are more into the drama and gossip on who's better or who's scared of who or who will win INSTEAD OF THE FIGHT ITSELF!

[@Transformers217]

@Tusc9969 But Mayweather hasn't made any excuses since he called out Pacquiao. But since the Marquez fight, Arum hasn't been interested, and Roach wants Pacquiao to have a tune up fight. Sure, he wants Pacquiao to fight Mayweather, but he doesn't think he's ready right now.

[@Nguyen12121]

The best of all time. I can see Pac having a huge problem if faced Robinson. His amateur record was 85-0 his first lost came at 40-0. his second lost was 128! WOW! What amazing record. out of 213 fights, he only lost once!!!!! What a fucken awesome guy.

[@tw69hands2]

@chinton90: You're right. I saw Ali say on a documentary once. I think it was called, 'Sugar Ray Robinson: The Greatest Fighter Pound for Pound,' published by Jim Jacobs and Bill Cayton.

[@ajp135212]

@Mowglieboy69 watch?v=s0aHy7lRWrQ&feature=related this is what i mean, check this out this is why i say floyd is better...look at robinson fight so open, he got hit by the slow lomatta so easily watch this

[@AlwaysRight83]

I agree that Mayweather is overrated and he needs to fight Pacman to prove himself, but you are wrong about the Castillo fights. Mayweather had a torn rotater cuff before the first Castillo fight and could not box the way he normally boxes. He changed to southpaw in that fight because of his injury. Mayweather got surgery on his shouler after the fight and was completely healed for the rematch with Castillo which Mayweather won with no controversy.

[@toopkarcher4941]

Why are you bringing that bum Mayweather into this video? He couldn't beat Castillo, he couldn't beat a prime De La Hoya, I mean seriously, De La Hoya got tired and stopped throwing that's how Floyd won. And then he beats Hatton and who did Hatton really beat? I mean if he beats Pacquiao which he won't since he knows he will lose then I can respect the man but come on... He's so overrated and there's Robinson, power, intelligent, speed, reflex, throws combos what else can anyone ask for...

[@Kohl423]

Floyd Mayweather jnr is a very talented boxer who deserves to now be included in the hall of fame as one of boxings greats. What we shold not do is compare him to Sugar Ray Robinson who in my opinion and during his own era was head and shoulders superior to Floyd. Ray fought anyone and everyone regardless of how dangerous they were or if they were at their peak or not. Floyds camp dont do that. Floyds opponents are all heavily researched and selected for ability, over the hill, over rated etc.

[@MrEl7decopas]

@cadillac123432 of course the level of competition proves how great Mayweather is ROFL I mean he beat a 38 yr old Shane Mosely, a semi retired 36 yr old Oscar De La Hoya. Who can denie Floyd's greatness I mean he beat the amazing Ricky Hatton XD He sucker punched the living legend Victor Ortiz XD and shut out the greatest Mexican boxer bar none Canelo Alvarez lol!!! How dare they compare Robinson to him XD

[@ECZKID]

Oh and Robinson is definitely the best of all time, not necessarily in terms of skill but by what he accomplished. Even then, skill-wise Robinson is top three; Mayweather though would have given him a run for his money. Robinson never faced anyone with the defensive skill that Mayweather possesses, I dare say Mayweather has the best defense of all time. It would have been a dream fight up there with Tyson, Ali .

[@05gtdriver]

Let's put Robinson's greatest in perspective, he fought at a time when organized crime called lots of shots in regards to who fought whom(and who would lose in many instances). He also fought when purses were meager and fighting 15-20 times a year(yes, a YEAR) meant affording the lifestyle one desired. Lastly, how could a fighter of today(who fights maybe twice if not once a year) be able to compete with such a fighting machine such as Robinson? He's rip through the softies of today.....

[@DeusExMachina92]

Ahem, if I may...to say he was OWNED by LaMotta, Basilio, Turpin, or Fullmer is laughable, let's review. Jake LaMotta is credited with handing SRR the first loss of his career, then SRR went on to beat him 4 times, including a TKO in their last fight. Basilio won a close decision, and then in the next fight, SRR did a laser targeted attack on Basilio's eye, and punching out a decision. Turpin boxed a decision, then SRR knocked him out. Fullmer, decision, then the beautiful left hook KO by SRR.

[@kenz0r1337]

It's crazy how every comment section of each boxing video is about Pacquiao, Mayweather and Marquez. Guys, Sugar Ray Robinson is ranked #1 P4P fighter of all times. Mayweather is ranked #48 and Pacquiao and Marquez do not appear on the list. This list was compiled in 2007 by ESPN and if it was listed today Pacquiao would certainly crack the top 50. However with Mayweather on #48 shows how far away these fighters are from Sugar Ray Robinson. At a point he had 128 wins 1 loss and 2 draws.

[@joe123090]

@4yBaKPanic im sure he did like boxing in the early years but boxing 10 years later might of gotten to him and back then they wouldnt pay alot per fights so thats why boxers had to fight so much back then if they wanted to make a living. rays days was the tough era of boxing. now a days there throwing around 40 milion per fight. robinson made 4 million in his entire career of boxing. robinson would of love to fight in this era.. fight twice a year make 80 million and party every where in between

[@JcLeopard]

No all of these extra divisions today are useless and all of these different titles are destroying boxing. We don't need 17 weight classes and 3 or 4 titles in each. What is that over 51 belts. Back when Boxing was real during its golden age there were 8 divisions and a belt in each and the competition was much tougher. The fighters today are not bigger, stronger, or tougher and are not neccessarily more technical either(There is a reason that Hopkins and Mayweather are considered throwbacks).

[@Mjolbaggar]

@ramirezlegend And the pure thougness of fighters back then was another level.Rocky Grazianos father used to make him fight his tree year older brother from the age he was tree. He fought untill he feel asleep from tiredness or from being punched. Jake la motta had same experiances. I think the old timers would eat up todays fighters becose boxing is not only about skill. Its about mental thoughness with todays fighters rarely have.

[@Mjolbaggar]

@tatertots00 I dont get your logic. If 10 students takes a math test maybe 1 will get an A. 3 a B. The rest a C. If you take 100 students to take a math test 10 will get an A. 3 will get a B. The rest a C. Do you get my logic? The more people that goes in to boxing the more great fighters there will show up. And with 1 title to compete about they would have to fight the best at all times and beat them.

[@Mowglieboy69]

@ajp135212 I'll freely admit that Floyd is better defensively than Robinson. That's down to personal style and ability, it has nothing to do with the era. Are you telling me that Hatton, Margarito, Mosley, Paul Williams, etc. had better defense/technical skills than Robinson as well? That seems to be what you were asserting. The fact that Floyd is superior defensively doesn't make him superior on the whole, especially offensively. What exactly is sloppy about Robinson's combinations?

[@Mowglieboy69]

@Alm0stExtinct Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're totally off with this comment. He was a truly great fighter, there's no doubt about that, but your sources are shady to say the least. He was known as one of the most difficult to work with self-managed fighters of all time. He'd routinely price himself out of fights, or raise the price of his purse just prior to the fight, citing that he wouldn't fight if his demands weren't met that second. One of the most egotistical fighters of all time.

[@a5dr3]

True, except the exact opposite of what you said. All sports, especially boxing, have a developmental and scientific aspect. Athletes are far healthier, faster, stronger and more skilled than they were even 10 years ago. Jordan could tell a big difference in the game just in the short time he retired and returned. I bet the Sugar in this clip might not even make the pro circuit today. Of course he would be amazing to watch had he been born and trained in this era.

[@iljn1988]

@46r11, I'd disagree; he was certainly the greatest Welterweight, though. People tend to forget that, by the time he stepped up to Middleweight, Robinson was already a little past his absolute best. I have him behind Greb, Monzon and Hagler at Middleweight; he was never utterly dominant for a sustained period at 160 lb like they were. I don't think rugged, unpolished fighters such as Basilio and Fullmer could beat him at Welterweight, but they did at Middleweight. Still top five at 160, though.

[@iljn1988]

@ajp135212, first off, chances are you've never seen Robinson's prime, as his best Welterweight days were hardly captured on film. Next, boxers back then were just as 'technical' as they are now; for every slickster like Mayweather, there's still two rugged punchbags such as Margarito. You say Robinson got hit fairly easy - could Jones have fought 202 times and never be knocked out, like Robinson? And come on, take a look at Jones' best opponents, and compare them to who Robinson fought.

[@fistofate]

Robinson probably had the greatest career of any fighter, but I wouldn't guarantee he'd have beaten any other middleweight champions. There's a million different ways to box and Robinson just had one of them. His style was beautiful, but he was not the straightest puncher in history. He telegraphed a lot of his punches and got by on his tremendous hand speed. Another factor is that sometimes whole generations of fighters are better than others... it's impossible to say who would have beaten who

[@propergeezer]

@Orangewind ray was great a catching a shot just enough to take the sting out of it yet still leaving him in position to fire back and counter. what sets him apart from the rest was his skill and toughness, he had so much of both. he had great rhythm and timing, light feet and heavy hands. add his exciting style, ring smarts and versatility hes the greatest. i still think paquiao gives him a very exciting fight as long as it lasts& he would out work and out tough mayweather. prob over 12 rnds

[@Orangewind]

@jhaven21 Pac and Floyd would both lose to SRR at WW. WW is prime Robinson. SRR has the ability to knock them both out. Floyd has the best chance to survive out of the two because Pac is an aggressor and Floyd relies heavily on defense. But Floyd would be overwhelmed and lose regardless. If you are going to beat Floyd, start with the Jab...and SRR had a Jab, along with speed, power, and movement. Pac's aggressive style, and lack of size, would result in him going to sleep.

[@Orangewind]

@JcLeopard Yes, absolutely. For anyone that needs to hear it from Jake's mouth....KZbin search: Mike Tyson joins David Brenner on his late night talk show, Nightlife Pt. 2 Chuvalo also mentioned it with himself and how that aspect of his boxing ability seems to go unnoticed. Many old timers complain about the lost art of boxing. Rolling with the punches, slipping....even using feints....some say are not use to the level today as they used to be. The little things that have been lost.

[@Orangewind]

If someone like Robinson had no defense, and given how great of attackers they were back then, tell me how they hell did he survive as long as he did without being being stopped until he was past his best, moved up to LH, fought a much bigger fighter in Joey Maxim, where he lost by TKO in the 14th round because of the combination of fighting a big fighter, along with, most of all, the extreme heat they had to fight on that day?

[@Orangewind]

@jhaven21 They are slipping and rolling with punches. They knew how to do that better back then than they do today. A lot of fighters today simply block hold their hands up, using the gloves as a shield (when the purpose originally was to just protect your hands), wait until there opponent is done, then fight back. These two are actually fighting. You punch while I punch...let's see who slips the others better while trying to land. You slow down the tape and you will see what skill is about

[@Dixienormouze]

no disrespect for robinson and fans but what I can say about rounds like manny will only last 5 rounds or mayweather wont last 4 rounds i dont believe that im. boxers training nowadays are different than it used to science has been added on boxers training conditioning.. Yes yes Robinson is a hell of a fighter but watching these old fights where boxers are not defending much against those punches the outcome will be entirely different if a heavy weight boxer punches

[@coolins112]

@mejiaczr32 For me, I couldn't see Manny lasting that long against Robinson. Maybe 4 rounds, and that's no disrespect to Manny. Ray was just another animal in the ring, he was the full package. The dream fight for Robinson is widely considered to be either Hagler or Leonard. And to be fair both of those men would be far more competitive with Robinson than Manny would be. Manny is a great fighter, but Robinson would cut him to ribbons, and finish him early.

[@JcLeopard]

@yaiqab Lamotta was very skilled. The only reason people think he wasn't was because the only fights of his that people really look at was his fights with Ray. People think that Jake was hardly ever put down because of his great chin and ability to take punishment. The truth id that Jake was a master at rolling with punches. Alot of shots that you think are landing are barely missing or glancing off. Most of the blows that hit him aren't clean.

[@yaiqab]

@POTATER1228 So what. Graziano, Zale, LaMotta, Fullmer and these guys were not very skilled either lol. Basilio had some skills, but he was a brawler also, and all these guys had 10 + losses. I mean give me a break. Ward is a modern day Tony Zale, so you had Zale and Graziano for the 21st. century when Gatti fought Ward three times. Back in the 1940's and 1950's, only a handful of black fighters, and less than a handful of hispanic fighters were even given title shots. Totally different era.

[@yaiqab]

@POTATER1228 I didn't state that Robinson was the greatest. I stated that he is probably the greatest, meaning that he definitely has to be mentioned in the conversation. The only way to know who is actually the greatest is for them to fight, and as we know, Robinson cannot fight Mayweather or Leonard or Hagler, so it is all speculative. If Arturo Gatti had fought in the 1950's, you'd be saying that Mayweather would never beat him lol. Those fighters were not tougher, just poorer.

[@POTATER1228]

@yaiqab the "bums" of that Robinson's era could be contenders in todays era. Those people fought ever 2 weeks, how many fighter today fight every MONTH; that shows how much tougher those fighters were! And he had more trouble with boxers because they he preferred people who came to him, just as PBF foyd does. and Robinson knocked out a LOT of boxers. So if your saying he's already te greatest, whats your point? LOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[@yaiqab]

@POTATER1228 Lmao, what kind of dumb comment is that. Mayweather doesn't have a third of Robinson's KO's because he doesn't have a third of Robinson's fights. Robinson was fighting bums every two weeks. That is the only way that you get to 175 wins, I son't give a damn who you are. He is probably the greatest fighter of all time, but he had alot of trouble with black boxers because they were not there to be hit like all those "Rockys" he fought lol.

[@POTATER1228]

@mariosuck 147 was his best weight. Just like 135 was Duran's best weight. and Mayweather's best weight. All 3 moved up for 2 reasons: 1) The older you get, the harder it is to make low weight, and its easier to gain then lose, the trade off it significantly makes you slower. 2) Better opportunities at the higher weight classes. And Robinson wasnt 147 when he fought Lamotta, he was was around 158. There are pople faster than floyd including Leonard and Jones Jr who could throw 4 left hooks a sec

[@POTATER1228]

@sugarnadf That's floyd's resume since 2001. Robinson has actually FOUGHT every single contender and champ that came his way to win the welter and middleweight titles.In an era where there was only 1 belt for each division. Robinson has 200 fights at professional with 109 KOs from his 20's until his 40's He's had more than 4 times the knockouts of Floyd, and his amateur record was undfeated with many FIRST ROUND KO's. Floyd cant compare and would be eaten alive by the likes or Robinson or Hearns

[@POTATER1228]

@sugarnadf De La Hoya-Old and worn down, ans STILL won a scorecard. to lose a split decision. Hatton-UNSKILLED bralwler who was hyped up and had no chance against a technician Marquez-Old, going up in weight for the first time, and was worn out from wars against Paquiao and Diaz. Shane Mosely-No reflexes for years prior due to age. Even in the Margarito fight All i could see was his technical skill, just some power with controlled punches. How is he supposed to be busy against Floyd!?

[@POTATER1228]

@sugarnadf No to me Floyd is the Catherine Zeta Jones of boxing, talented, but done nothing worth note in the last decad after his defeat of Corrales. Jose Luis Castillo-got the girft decision when he should of lost the first time (I will give him credit for winning the rematch Gatti-Worn out from wars with Ward and his style only works against people who come to fight him Zab judah: Lost to EVERY big name fighter he ever fought From Spinks to Cotto Baldomir-Had like 11 losses, bum

[@POTATER1228]

@truthhitmanisback Mayweather doesnt have a third of Robinson's Ko's. And the only two people Mayweather beat were Diego coralles and Jose Luis Castillo, and Castillo was robbed. Sugar Ray beat Jake Lamotta, Carmen Basillio, Kid Galivan, Gene Fullmer, Rocky Graziano, and many many more. All when there were no super nor junior weight divisions. He's faster, stronger, and has a better chin than mayweather. Mayweather wouldnt last 5 rounds with Leonard or Hearns, for Godsake

[@solomonwisearse]

@truthhitmanisback I like how you quote Mayweather "all roads lead to Mayweather" like you are part of some brainwashed cult of his. Mayweather is 41-0 and has ducked his biggest challenge so far. 41-0 without fighting the toughest fighters in our generation = best ever? Not so fast. By 1951 SRR was 128 -1 with 84 KOs and never ducked a challenge. He won over 90 straight fights. Chavez was 87-0 before fighting Whitiker. Ali beat 2 fighters twice his size and strength. I could go on and on.

[@trainlinezoo]

The tourny should have more fighters. Showtime should have had a fight on every Saturday night through these colder months..In fact HBO and ESPN should have got a piece of this, included 18 fighters from the start double elimination. How are Bika and Bute and that German guy Robert Stieglitz not in this tournament?And they could have tried out something new too-15 rounds at 2:30 a piece. More boxing more flurries less holding! And the judges could have been 7 instead of 3. Boxing needs to evolve

[@trainlinezoo]

WOW - same gym? Kool! I believe this whole silly tournament was designed to come up with a fighter to face Green anyway. Boxers of the past were fighting much more frequently than the modern era so this ongoing tournament should be expedited. Abraham Froch and the other fighters have had plenty of time to get back in the ring so lets get this thing done so Green can get the crown. Man when Green meets Froch it will be over in 8 rounds. No amount of dirty fighting is going to save that guy. .

[@trainlinezoo]

Sorry bout the Cotto thing - I mustta had sum good bud that night....wishin i had a bit now. I bought the Jones / Lacy fight I bought the Haye vs. big ass russian guy fight. I'll probably not buy the Jones Hopkins fight unless the undercard is excellent or I get summore of them herbs again. More important things going on _ theres no snow in Vancouver (Winter Olympics) and Greece is bankrupt (the Euro is shaking). I just wanna see the Alan Green Andre Ward fight....that will be a classic!