Sunny 16 vs Light-Meter Challenge (KEKS KM-Q)

[@LucyLumen]

Check out all the awesome devices KEKS design for Analog Photography here - www.kekscameras.com

[@Flburr99]

It would have been interesting to shoot the scene with your prediction then take the same photo again with the light meter and see if there’s a noticeable real world difference between your estimation and the light meter reading.

[@Mike_to_the_k]

Makes me want to do a video like that testing the accuracy of my Nikons meter

[@givemesucc214]

That’s what thought they were gonna do

[@allmediaguy1]

lock this video in Eddie! another great one, what i love the most about your videos is your raw, natural way of presenting.

[@LucyLumen]

Hahaha 🤣 glad that joke is making sense to some people! Ohhh thank you so much ☺️ that’s really kind to hear and I’m so lucky to have such a supportive and friendly community here on KZbin! Have a great day 🙋🏻‍♀️📸

[@shanestorozukphotography]

really enjoyed tagging along on this photo walk with you two...beautiful scenery and great colour grade btw! Nice work on the sunny 16 skills!

[@LucyLumen]

Thank you so much Shane! This is really lovely to hear.

[@HR-wd6cw]

As far as metering goes I think a general "rule" that is good to follow (although doesn't always apply to all situations obviously) is the Sunny 16 rule in bright sunlight, 1-2 stops more (so f/11 or f/8) for cloudy overcast days, and f/8 or f/5.6 for "open shade"). I think your assessment of f/4 for the dark shaded area was probably pretty close. But these are what I've sort of gone with (assuming ISO 100 of course, hence starting with the Sunny 16 rule). Luckily the light meter in my OM1 still works very well (and if it's off, it's only off by 1/3 of a stop at most but usually right on). But just as a test I did shoot a roll without the light meter and for the most part, works out fine using the Sunny 16 rule as a basis. Obviously areas of high dynamic range can be challenging still (with or without a meter although a meter may help you determine a good exposure to balance things out). Getting used to it though (after shooting digital) does take some adjustment because of how the spot meter works and it's effective metering area which is probably larger than a digital camera's spot metering.

[@andyvan5692]

Lucy, one other tip, I use my phone, just recently, when shooting with my H1 on film (HM16-32 back), and it IS essential that you take notes, I used office 365 on my phone to get excel to make my notes easy, and it syncs with my desktop/laptop at home, so any change gets done on all devices as the file is accessed on phone, but cloud stored. But you can use the old school pen/pencil and paper, if the phone is too distracting, esp. for millennials, and after, for us 1980's kids we use it for what we need, no addiction, just functional tools. [just think, a phone is way better than having to carry a bunch of floppy or hard disks with you !].

[@kennethmyrez]

thank you Lucy for sharing your passion for film photography! I always look forward to your videos!

[@LucyLumen]

Thank you so much for the kind words and I appreciate you watching and letting me know you enjoy ☺️

[@kennethmyrez]

@@LucyLumen more power to you Lucy! 💪🫶

[@rogerlau4147]

Sunny 16 applied to medium format film too? amazing! it's a lost art.

[@pdtech4524]

Another way of looking at the video - is the KEKS light meter as accurate as Lucy Lumens camera settings predictions?😁 What would have been even better, would be to compare the photos from both your settings and the KEKS light meter settings to see the difference it made in the final photo. Maybe on 35mm film for cost purposes, same model camera, lens and film and lighting conditions. Effectively you'd need 2 identical camera setups and take the photos one after the other to be as fair and balanced comparison as possible...😊

[@markgoostree6334]

Good photo walk! Nice shots all around and Lux hit a home run with his shot of you! My only medium format camera is a box Kodak from the '20's... no adjustments... I am not sure of the shutter speed or the f-stop. I am betting f-5.6 and about 1/50th sec. I will ( one day ) actually shoot a roll through it. Just to see what I get.

[@lackoliver55]

I love the Keks. I have the Keks-KM02 I believe. Another thing to remember is the Keks is just a bit more wide than a spot meter. Around 30 degrees, so about a 50mm to 60mm FOV. I have used it on the camera hot shoe a bunch. But what I found myself doing more, is to carry it in my hand/pocket and then do a quick hit of the highlights and shadows. Then decide what I want to expose for, or just choose an exposure right in the middle. I eventually want to just attach it to a string or leather strap and wear it like a necklace. Feels funny pointing my camera at something, not to take a picture but to activate the meter. Another handy method, if I'm out in nature, or a repetitive urban landscape is to meter the shadows, meter some reflections off windows, or the sky. Then I pocket the Keks, go around shooting, and just change my aperture within the range of my initial meterings. Also, I have the 6x7 "Texas Leica", all bronze (or brass?). That thing is an absolute hammer. I understand your struggle.

[@laurentengelbrecht3875]

3:00 from experience the general set of rule I use for objects in shadow is : - sunny 16 plus 2-3 stops for object in direct shadow during the day, (for brighter surfaces, more likely +2 stops, for darker objects more likely +3) - sunny 16 plus 3-4 stops for objects in direct shadow by the end of afternoon as contrast increases (same principle as for the precise exposure) - less overexposure when overcast as light is more diffused (less contrast) - same rule applied recursively N times for N layers of shadows (indirect shadows : for instance an object under a parasol itself in the shadow of a building) It gives surprisingly accurate results when comparing with a light meter. In your case the light meter gave 6.3 which is about 16 + 2.5 stops as grass is neither bright nor dark (inbetween 8 and 5.6).

[@MrConna6]

Super excited to see you tackle medium format and very very excited to see the comparison between sunny 16 and light meter

[@millie-max-moo]

if someone is judgmental about using a light meter then it means they’re a toxic person. professional artists use light meters. regardless of their own knowledge to approximate well. getting it accurate is more important than an ego. also, sunny 16 is a legitimate metering technique. u are a technical photographer and have been this whole time.

[@GavinThomas-pix]

You hit the spot with this video! I have used sunny 16 since 1965 and limit myself to three full stop adjustments each for shutter speed, aperture and ISO, I never look at the camera after the first setting for the day and adjust by the sound of the click, 3 clicks equals 1 stop. Lucky I am the only one who sees my images.

[@arneheeringa96]

I am so jealous of people that have sunny 16 in their heads, like Cartier-Bresson. Sunny 16 forces you to look at the light. I am still struggling with metering.

[@GavinThomas-pix]

@@arneheeringa96 I inherited my father's sekonic light meter from the '60's and it still works well, but the satisfaction is in taking your time to guess settings and focus. To blow your mind further I ride a 45 year old 500cc single m/bike and never travel above 80km/h with camera hanging around neck.

[@arneheeringa96]

@@GavinThomas-pix wow, I don't ride bike but I take pics since I was 11 in 1983, but unfortunately I learned on an automatic camera (Agfa Optima Sensor 335).

[@blackburncinic9414]

clicked for the big ass camera, on thumbnail, stayed because youre actually using that camera

[@NPJensen]

Great photos and nice halation effect in the video. I have an old fully manual viewfinder camera. The first time I used it, I used a smartphone light meter app - it was spot on every time. I have since moved on to dedicated light meters, but it's nice to know that a free app on my phone can ensure perfect exposures every time.

[@HurleyDeanSandpointIdaho]

Love your work. I was raised on film. I no longer have a darkroom. Film and developing is so expensive. I purchased a Nikon digital camera and love the images it produces. Thank you for all your hard work. Hi from Sandpoint, Idaho USA.

[@rongarcia7353]

Really fun video! Yes, you were obviously out of your comfort zone but you powered through. My TX Leica is a 1948 Kodak Tourist 6x9 folding bellows rig. Scale focusing, fully adjustable exposure. I use Sunny 16 as a rule but carry a small Sekonic meter just in case. I only shoot B&W and process and scan at home. Keeps it affordable 😊 And yes I do use it as a walk around camera. I just walk real slow 🙄

[@quite1enough]

damn that thing is huge! I really wanted 6x8 version but I doubt it's smaller, and I'm thinking to reconsider but have zero clue on any other 6x8 cameras, only 6x7 and quite fragile and expensive ones (like Fuji GF670 and Plaubel Makina)

[@timcarter2147]

Great video! Love this experiment between the meter and sunny 16. You're absolutely delightful on camera, and the video itself looks incredible!!

[@DLivingston]

Ive been sing the keks light meter for awhile now and it's always very good on metering. Also, I just got the gw690 recently and love it as well. Great video!

[@jimjimgl3]

Seems like a fun and good shoot day for you. Good to know for yourself that you can calculate exposure but of course whatever makes you create good images is the best. My commercial photography experience began way before digital. I used a light meter almost constantly (Mamiya RZ 67 and Pentax 67 and Sinar P 4x5). Back then I was addicted to polaroids...both because of the accuracy they provided but also at the end of the day, in my hotel room, I'd love cutting them out of their frame and making a little booklet of the day's pics). And of course studio work with strobe demanded light meters back then. Now our computer screen is our polaroid...def not as sexy as the real thing...

[@Ckxlv31147]

Hiya, what did you shoot this episode with video-wise? The DR and colours are on point! Cheers!

[@LucyLumen]

Hi thank you it was just a Fuji XT4

[@lightleakss]

Great video Lucy! I know you're not a technical photographer but I released a video just yesterday where I talk about all the different ways to meter and do some tests to see how different methods stack up against each other. Spoiler: Sunny 16 is actually super effective

[@michaelturk9625]

Hi Lucy, Thanks for your Texas Leica - Sunny 16 video. I've had mine for a while and the GW690 produces fantastic photos. I used a very basic hand held Sekonic L-208 Light Meter and used to shoot both B&W (Tri-X of T-Max) and Colour (Portra 400 or 800). I also used a strong torch sometimes at night if I had a difficult-to-use focus point to aid in aligning the rangefinder focus shape. However, I eventually found the whole process too expensive, costing approximately $120AU per roll taking into account the cost of film, development, printing and scanning using a lab in the Sydney CBD. I have recently found a Fujifilm GA645 at a good price on fleabay and will be trying it out in the next couple of weeks ... as an alternative.

[@mollyanderson449]

Great video Lucy!!! The photos are beautiful and you have inspired me to practice sunny 16 more 😉

[@VariTimo]

A reflective meter with a wider angle like the Keks isn’t too precise in situations like these either. Because bright spots will bring the ball exposure down. You wanna point it so it reads more of the shadow area in order to not underexpose. But also 1/3 of a stop difference either way isn’t really an issue. Slide film has +/- 1/3 stop of wiggle room and Leicas tolerance for calibrating cameras is also 1/3 stop. I think it’d be interesting to make a video like this comparing Sunny 16, to the Keks, to an incident meter.

[@andyvan5692]

great video, one tip, I shoot MF (hasselblads {V+H}), and due to the nature of them, dof, and glare sensitivity, I use low ASA in Australia, esp. in summer (EV:15 and up), and use my Nikon Z6 and it's matrix metering +histogram to judge highlight tones, and if they clip the histogram, use a filter (ND) or lens hood, shooting away from the direct sun.

[@richardsimms251]

Great video. What language are you speaking ? Thank you for this excellent presentation RS. Canada

[@LucyLumen]

Just English haha I have quite a broad Australian accent so I hope it wasn’t hard to understand!

[@markgoostree6334]

@@LucyLumen Your accent is part of the fun!! I live in Nashville Tennessee. I am so "Southern" I even hear in "rebel slang" . It was fun in tech school. I was the only one from south of the Mason/Dixon Line.

[@AlexanderHernandez-sb7lq]

Great video Lucy. I would have shot with 35mm half frame for economic reasons, and shot my guessed exposure then shot what the light meter tells me, just to compare and contrast.

[@LucyLumen]

Oh this would have been a banger idea! We didn’t have heaps of time to shoot this day and I have been meaning to shoot with this camera just to try it out and I wanted to use the meter with it. Otherwise that would have been an awesome experiment. I’ll keep it in mind! Thanks Alex xx 😘

[@AlexanderHernandez-sb7lq]

@@LucyLumen awesome video regardless. As always.

[@paulfallat1664]

A comparison, that would be interesting, would be you could take 2 images, one with what you thought and the other with the meter’s settings and then see how different the actual images would be.

[@AndyMcClements]

This is super cool, thanks. A lovely vibe :)

[@LucyLumen]

Thank you so much Andy! I’m glad you enjoyed it. It’s nice to share my Australian scenery and sun ☀️ with everyone! Thanks for watching xx

[@VOByRobbins]

Great video Lucy!!! I have one of these and they work perfectly! Keep up the great videos, we love them! hope you ate well after that day! :)

[@mattallengroupatREAL]

You would like the Pentax 6x7, it sounds like a cannon going off in your hands!

[@JohnKrill]

With an older film camera I recommend you get cleaned and have the shutter check and adjusted if needed. Happy filming

[@wotajared]

Incident metering! Long time user of the Texas Leica and my main meter is the L308 but last year I bought the Reflx lab to be more agile. Now I feel like I am out lost nor missing a built in meter. Gosh between 2014-16 when I had no meter and meter apps were so so (nothing much in android) I did miss and had to guesstimate a lot! More than just sunny 16, it's more variable conditions, city and shade towards afternoons where it is challenging to guess and really lovely to have these tools. Then there is E6 film -- the retributor of innacurate metering; but it rewards wonderful large slides on 6x9 120.

[@YofavoriteShinobi]

i have to ask what lens did you film this video with? its nice clear and wide

[@LucyLumen]

Hi thanks it is just the standard 18-55 Fuji lens nothing special but gets the job done ✅

[@RonK]

I think it would be easier for you to turn the camera by 180 degrees for verticals - it's usually more stable have it "hang" from your fingers (hand on top) and stabilizing with the left hand underneath, usually by holding the lens with it...

[@LucyLumen]

Yes it probably would be. I really struggled using this camera just generally. I found out after I shot it that it has a shutter button on the front too which would have made it sooooo much easier. I think I’ll stick with my 35mm cameras and let my partner use this beast!

[@treyusher32]

5:28 theres a shutter button on the front of the camera to use when shooting in portrait orientation! Makes it a lot easier to use vertically

[@LucyLumen]

Oh my god are you series!???????? Hahahahhahaha I was struggling so much with that! Hahhaha thank you for this tip I wish I knew that!

[@treyusher32]

@LucyLumen yeah! There's a silver button right next to the grip on the front right side! Im 99% sure the 6x9 has that.

[@LucyLumen]

@@treyusher32 I just checked and it does haha! I held it and was able to lock my elbows into my body to stabilise as well which would have been so handy!!! I was struggling to pull focus and keep the camera straight and reach for the shutter button and it’s heavy hahaha nightmare

[@treyusher32]

@LucyLumen Nice!! Yeah it's a great feature especially for it's size. Glad I could help! And btw great video as always :)

[@Lifewithseanthony]

How do you edit your videos? That red haze more specifically! Love it!

[@LucyLumen]

Davinci Resolve 19 Beta 🔥

[@bigrobotnewstoday1436]

I never really cared for medium format film photography. I use to shoot weddings with a Bronica the square format. the good thing about the square format my viewfinder had the crop lines in it so if I needed 4:3 I just saw it in the viewfinder and when I got my negatives back I could just put it in a card and crop the negative on the card and tape it down. The new digital medium format from like Fuji those cameras are small so I think some of that gear is not as bad but some of those lens are still big.

[@LucyLumen]

That’s so cool you shot weddings on film 🎞️ back in the day! I am not a big fan of medium format really and I think in today’s world it’s not very realistic to shoot it unless you have a big budget for a fashion campaign or something or are working on a specific personal project that it feels right for. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts

[@richardsimms251]

Nice video. Good subject RS. Canada

[@LucyLumen]

Thank you so much! Lots of love from Australia 🇦🇺 🙋🏻‍♀️

[@elvis_leong]

how in the world did you get the red halation on your highlights in the vid?

[@LucyLumen]

Davinci Resolve Studio 🔥

[@thevoiceman6192]

Nice photos. So was the meter accurate?

[@LucyLumen]

The photos came out well exposed so I’d have to say yes

[@andyvan5692]

No, Lucy, that reference to "Eddie" one would attribute to the movie Venom, with Tom hardy, aka Eddie, the character, Venom uses this as internal talking when referencing his human host.

[@housemusic325]

The light meter measure a 30-degree angle and average it. That's why you sometimes get unexpected measures. The shady area should be exposed at f/4 maybe at f/5.6 your light meter is just triggered by the sky being too bright.

[@emmdod]

Hello, a warning about Chinese light meters, they don't have tight clearances on silicone light sensor, the readings will be off and you might need to increase or decrease the sensitivity, Voigtlander light meters on the other hand, are very accurate. I Compared them over and over, Keks needs to be more consistent.

[@prose4ever]

1:44 Is it just me or is there an orange fringe going on with the white pillars?

[@CBortlearts]

6X9 is the best format IMO. The best camera for 6x9 is the voigtlander Bessa II. Such an epic camera. The best 6x9 never made should would have been a Super Isollette that was sadly only ever made is 6x6. I have shot alot of photos on 6x9 using the Voiglander RF and the Bessa II. They always turn out so good. I owned the 'Texas Leica" for a brief period but it did not satisfy me more than what I already had with the Voigtlander cameras. A pocketable folder that can create amazing photos...no comparison. I hated the massive size. The viewfinder is nice but it is something I can easily live without. The Bessa III was so promising but the format sucked. They should have come out with a 6x9 from the start.

[@RascalKyng]

You should consider a wrist strap for a rig like this... Makes me nervous, haha. ... Sure you could find something real smashing.

[@charlespitts5901]

Yikes! I recommend at least a wrist strap with that big clunker.

[@LucyLumen]

It wasn’t too bad as we sort of drove between shots along the beach front so I wasn’t carrying it the entire time. It was so heavy though haha I normally use a canon rebel g which is light AF haha 😂

[@stefbecci1274]

I thought the light meter uses reflected light and sunny 16 calculates incident?

[@footrotdog]

12:30 Technically on 6x9, 3 shots nearly is the half roll that you would have normally shot by now. :)

[@wbynan]

Rad video!

[@LucyLumen]

Thank you so much! I’m glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching x

[@ricknicholson5894]

Good video, reminded me of the sunny 16 rule and got me to do some research about it. Watch the video again and count how many "like" you say and for future videos I suggest you reduce the number of "like" in your sentences by about 2/3rds. Like, you know what I mean?

[@LucyLumen]

Like I’ll get on to this like straight away like just like for you like. Like thank you for your like expert like opinion like I truly like don’t know like where like I would be like without like your opinion. Like thank you. Like. 👍🏻

[@ricknicholson5894]

@@LucyLumen I thought you wouldn't take the suggestion well. It's common as part of dramatic readings to learn about lazy habits we acquire when talking. Another one is "Ummm"

[@vincentchristopherkofi]

Lock it in Eddy! 🎉

[@LucyLumen]

Haha I wasn’t sure if anyone who wasn’t an Aussie would get that who wants to be a millionaire reference haha 😂

[@vincentchristopherkofi]

@@LucyLumen Hahaha, I truly don’t know how I know that reference. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 It looks like you’re having a tonne of fun! I know that camera can be hard on the wallet but I hope you keep shooting it.

[@gregshawphotography8828]

It’s good to slow down. Quality over quantity.

[@Bertzcommodities]

$50 for developing and scanning is insane !! Time to start self developing and scanning , save you so much money and you can turnaround quicker Shoot the roll , go home dev in 15 minutes or so and scan in the same day (:

[@LucyLumen]

@@Bertzcommodities I meant $50 for the cost of the film, dev and scan plus postage to send the film to my lab who are the best! So all up cost is around $50. I don’t really shoot medium format much. I shoot a lot of 35mm film and I have a toddler at home and work full time so I don’t have the time to be developing and scanning at home plus I shoot a lot of film for work so need high res scans and the results I get from the lab are so good I would never dev at home. I know it works out cheaper but my time is more valuable at this point in my life so using a lab works out so much better for me. Let the pros do their bit and I’m happy just shooting!

[@Bertzcommodities]

@@LucyLumen I see !! I misinterpreted that oops Your work is great and you’re a total badass !! Making time for shooting film is already tough enough

[@davidligon6088]

How fun!

[@mattallengroupatREAL]

You should meter off your hand it’s closer to 18% grey than the grass. Or get a grey card!

[@LucyLumen]

I don’t really think that would be necessary for me with how I normally shoot. I’m an auto gal and I love to keep it simple. Check out my photography on my website and you’ll see my style reflected better over there. Thank you for watching!

[@MrConna6]

As much as those meters are designed for a film cameras shoe they are vastly inferior to any other form of meter than an old school selenium cell one due to the spot and incident metering they have, I feel bad enough charging the prices we do for film let alone suggesting someone spend way too much (any) money on a meter over free apps with more accurate metering

[@atroche1978]

Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! 🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤

[@eatenbyopium]

left when i heard 120mm made sure to downvote on my way out

[@LucyLumen]

@@eatenbyopium oh my god it was a joke obviously!

[@MatthewMartin-u9l]

Allen Christopher Rodriguez Laura White Ruth

[@Paldentseringsherpa]

x1.25 !

[@googo151]

You should mention your film speed and we can play around with you. Are you pushing film, or pulling.

[@LucyLumen]

I do mention at the start of the video it’s Kodak Gold 200 but I understand it’s easy to miss things like that watching a whole video. Thanks for watching

[@Narsuitus]

@2:15 You state that you are using Kodak Gold which is rated at ISO 200. However, according to the Sunny 16 rule, when your subject is in bright sunlight, you are supposed to set your f/stop to f/16 and your shutter speed to 1/200th of a second. However, since your camera has only 1/125th and 1/250th of a second shutter speed settings, you do not clearly explain how you are going to adjust your shutter speed to compensate for not having the 1/200th shutter speed.

[@WhizPill]

Stopping by from Instagram, wonder if you’ve been on a podcast to talk about your photography background before 🫵📸💻 Would be dope to feature you and your work ✅

[@mcutler71]

Not to speak for Lucy, but check out Analog Talk and Matt Loves Cameras. Some awesome interviews there.

[@LucyLumen]

Hello 👋🏻 thank you for coming over here and checking the video out! I have been on analog talk before and negative positives, also classic camera revival too! Analog talk was really fun though def check that interview out!

[@LucyLumen]

@@mcutler71 oh yes and of course the best Matt Loves Cameras! We have done a few together!