Super Mario Bros. TAS vs. RTA World Record (

[@elrit6]

seeing niftski being head to head with tas for the first 4 minutes is just mind blowing

[@Matsu_San.]

Really isnt a few frames ahead

[@kanlibanyo]

@@Matsu_San.well uhhhm akshually ☝🤓

[@rugbyguitargod]

​@@Matsu_San. "Frame Rules" have entered the chat

[@lustucrugf5591]

framerules that's why

[@bony_ttv]

@@Matsu_San. imagine a bus...

[@PierceArner]

Man, seeing all those framerules just syncing up again, and again, _and again_, and only 8-4 itself having the TAS pull away and even then __*_JUST BARELY_* is simply mind-blowing. Thanks a ton for this comparison to help put into perspective just how impressive the state of this game is now.

[@Varooooooom]

Were those seriously frame rules?? If so, then that’s wild… I just assumed HappyLee kept syncing them at each new level lol

[@PixalonGC]

@@Varooooooom yeah niftski tied the TAS to 8-4

[@andrewzhang8512]

@@Varooooooom didnt expect to see the exarion here

[@rugbyguitargod]

@@Varooooooom yup, it means he was within 0.35 seconds (or 21 frames on NTSC) of the TAS on every level, since they ended up loading into the next level on the same 'bus'

[@GodzillaFreak]

Happylee's TAS does some flashier tricks for aesthetics when it's within the framerule

[@Theokat]

It's incredible nowadays to see a speedrunner tied a TAS until 8-4. Niftski a god tier player ^^

[@lustucrugf5591]

framerules

[@SoundsOfLimbo]

Well, TBH, if there were no framerules in this game, TAS would beat RTA for a good 3-4 seconds TAS saved 0.5 seconds just in the last level

[@Pankaw]

This is just crazy to think about It's good to point out that, out of those 36 frames of difference, 14 of them are thanks to the benefits of using L+R, which isn't allowed in official any% runs Even with that, only 0.6 away!

[@TrimutiusToo]

I mean Niftski was safing a lot in 8-4, because it was first TAS tie to 8-4 in history... he could have shaved off 0.2 or more easily if he went for all the strats in 8-4 and made them...

[@Pankaw]

@@TrimutiusToo I was referring to those 14 extra frames coming from the usage of L+R in HappyLee's TAS, which immediately makes it an unfair comparison, since L+R is not allowed under RTA rules; and a frame perfect 8-4 without L+R (RTA rules) is 14 frames slower than the 8-4 on this TAS

[@Pankaw]

But yeah, apart from that, of course he went for a safer 8-4. He went for a 4:54.6 this time cuz he just wanted to finish off one that had a TAS tie to 8-4 and broke the .7 barrier, to then improve on that. Later on he will go for a .5, .4 and .3 (.2 looks really fishy but y'know, it's possible, and we always say that). Otherwise he'd run out of any% goals very quickly lol

[@MoneyManHolmes]

I want to see a side by side comparison with no L + R.

[@TrimutiusToo]

@@MoneyManHolmes Same here

[@epicshinji9258]

The fact that the difference between the TAS and human is less than 1 SECOND. Just goes to show that this is literally The Human Limit

[@original9yearold606]

W reference

[@TheLyre3]

I believe we could push this limit further

[@MeatSim64]

Push it to the Limit! Walk along the razor's edge, don't look down just keep your head or you're finished!

[@aztro.99]

maybe the summoning salt was the friends we made along the way...

[@98-carlmarkmarak22]

beating this would require L+R input , which isnt possible with NES controller

[@MoreInsane96]

3:25 show off TAS. Btw I love how they are basically tied (due to the 21 framerule thing) up to 8-4

[@ilect1690]

not basically, actually tied

[@fruityplumguy6532]

To put it in context, a frame rule in super Mario is roughly 20 frames (or 21 frames). Niftski was 2 frame rules (about 40 frames) off from completing this game absolutely perfectly. Huge congratulations to him.

[@TheNoSwearGuy]

A framerule (which is one word, not two) is 21 frames, not 20. Two framerules is 42 frames, not 40. Niftski is 36 frames away from tying this TAS, not 40. And this TAS uses Left+Right, which is not allowed in real-time runs and saves 14 frames in 8-4, compared to no Left+Right, so Niftski is 22 frames away from absolute perfection.

[@aidenbw5939]

​@@TheNoSwearGuy 🤓🤓🤓

[@rjfink]

Based

[@兄さん]

​@@TheNoSwearGuy English orthography is not officially regulated by any public authority, so I'm not sure why you claim that the single-word spelling is any more correct.

[@nightlust]

I think he's happy at the end

[@DJIncendration]

Way more than happy.

[@hfcriske]

I can imagine him smiling slightly

[@GardenChess]

Not sure

[@KevinEontrainer381]

"Oh my God" Niftski said calmly

[@bormisha]

Victory didn't come easy.

[@mariutunio]

That TAS guy is really excellent at playing Super Mario.

[@sarahspeedrun6419]

Tbh I think it would’ve been a better comparison with gaster’s tas since it only goes for the “fastest” strats instead of entertainment. Still a great video, thanks for making it!!

[@HappyLeeHL]

This is the fastest TAS. For comparison, it should be the best TAS vs. the best realtime run.

[@sarahspeedrun6419]

@@HappyLeeHL yes that’s what I meant sorry 😅

[@genshin-m8g]

@@HappyLeeHL 捉hl

[@ericdrei]

Honestly? I'm speechless, seriously. That's Ultra Instinct at its finest.

[@sesendou]

もし理論値に到達して界隈が終わってしまえば、これほど開発者冥利に尽きることもない。

[@KobiHameed]

so funny seeing niftski being so far behind the tas, but it doesn't matter because he's on the same framerule

[@RobSomeone]

You hold that bus for Niftski!!!

[@KolyaPro23]

i have no idea how niftski keeps setting world records with that keyboard setup, in my mind he's a tas machine lol

[@noquality3587]

He has rgb man

[@shapowlow]

​@@noquality3587yup. That'll do it

[@sbubwoofer]

Gaming chair

[@signal_train]

凄いの一言に尽きる。

[@The_Deep_Blue]

the most mind-boggling part of this whole thing is that the actual speedrun is only BARELY slower than the TAS. with most speedruns the TAS is almost always leagues faster but with smb the game is just so optimized that it's only the little things which put it above a normal player (and those things only add up to about a half second difference.) crazy impressive shit we have here. three cheers for Niftski, the human mario TAS!

[@elrit6]

this run actually tied the tas until 8-4

[@willie333b]

1:59 Niftski going down the pipe faster than the TAS

[@TrimutiusToo]

Yeah strat that Niftski uses wasn't discovered yet when TAS was made... It literally must enter pipe faster than that old TAS to not need the fast acceleration in the warp zone...

[@Bismuth9]

@@TrimutiusToo The TAS has been 1 frame away from saving the framerule for years and years, but HappyLee uses the 20 frames of leeway to mess around doing suboptimal strats instead.

[@TrimutiusToo]

@@Bismuth9 wait they are 1 frame away in 4-2 as well? Damn I want to learning SMB TASing even more now

[@imnotparkour]

@@Bismuth9 So the perfect lightning of 4-2 is 20 frame to save wtf????

[@wenger1735]

멋있다 당신의 노력에 박수를 보낸다🫢

[@benallen895]

mad how happylee got a time like that in 2011.

[@cotcot8965]

before that too just the last improvement was made then

[@Aeplexi]

amazing, also the RTA run links to kosmics wr

[@HappyLeeHL]

Yeah I just found that and fixed the link.

[@WindowsGG]

0:16 i know this is an echo but that sounds good actually! :D

[@wolv0223]

The machines better be sweating with how close we're getting to matching them. Just 0.599 seconds left (and part of that is impossible, I believe, on unmodified real hardware, as it involves pushing left and right simultaneously, IIRC).

[@蒔田友哉]

１つだけ分かったのは、五月蝿い

[@maymadisson6140]

The TAS wr is in danger.

[@sheiladikshit5110]

i remember seeing the tas shortly after it was released. thought to myself "incredible! imagine a human pulling that off... impossible!". fast forward a decade, and wow, just wow. Niftski's truly god-tier, an absolute ledge.

[@W01F_LuigiPres1]

Yeah what an absolute ledge

[@nevergonnagiveyouup291]

Fr man such an absolute ledge

[@RyanChow1989]

Fuckin ledge

[@ulyssesdoroja2973]

Truly ledge-dary

[@daddymememaster5432]

He is both ledge and airy

[@Locket.L]

Yk stuff like this makes me realise that when us humans put our mind to it and work our asses off, we can rival the strength of the robots.

[@PretzelBS]

THE LAST FRAMERULE

[@pleasedyes]

Also crazy to have a speedrun where they talk through the run So commonly that would destroy their focus

[@JuanSegundoPerera]

"Don't scream don't break the camera"

[@yeeteagles1563]

I love the clouds seem like going from the rta to the tas

[@TrimutiusToo]

Nice, though would also like comparison to RTA rules TAS

[@LightBloxVidsYT]

0:52 satisfying

[@Idkwhattonamemyself6-v8n]

It's easy to do.

[@LightBloxVidsYT]

I’m talking about the sound mate.

[@Elmakio16]

Niftski also owns the WR of red ball 💀

[@donwald3436]

This is a TAS because Niftski is a robot lol.

[@DarkChaosMC]

One day we’ll be looking at the same videos next to each other

[@tanishy]

Lightning 4-2 with mana clip LMAO

[@iBall1]

NOBODY CALLS IT MANA CLIP STOP DOING THIS

[@tanishy]

what says?

[@iBall1]

haha don't worry that was just a joke ive got with a few friends. You can call that clip whatever you want especially since it's not a strategy used much anymore (a pretty cool relic of 2000's tasing though)@@tanishy

[@tanishy]

ok lol

[@elrit6]

@@iBall1 walter white cooking clip

[@Hebi_op]

A future 4:53 is impossible, amiright?

[@HappyLeeHL]

According to our current knowledge, yes.

[@francescoadinolfi8837]

Almost frame perfect. Insane.

[@flavored_1]

Is the TAS with L + R inputs or no? because I thought 4:54.26 was the best without L + R

[@HappyLeeHL]

TASes usually allow L+R or other inputs by default. It always has been for the last 20 years.

[@flavored_1]

@@HappyLeeHL Like at the same time? Because I thought on an nes controller or a setting for an emulator prevented that

[@Pankaw]

@@flavored_1 Yea, 4:54.265 is the best time without L+R, and yea there's an option to prevent L+Rs on keyboard, which this TAS doesn't use of course

[@Pankaw]

Also, it's a common myth that L+R can't be done on NES controllers; yes, you can definitely press L+R on a controller without modding it, but it's very inconsistent since you have to press really hard on the dpad to get it, so that's why it's still banned

[@flavored_1]

@@Pankaw thanks for clarifying. Would like to see a version of this vid with the L+R input

[@FrederickBeats]

I like the way Niftski was happy at the ending Lol, "OMG, OMG, OMG WELL DONE

[@zahedhale5722]

Was a childhood dream, seemed me impossible for human to be that near from the perfect time !

[@carolingien]

niftski is confirmed robot

[@bipar1]

あとは8-1の最初だけなのか…。最初は旗らけも人力では無理と言われてたけど今じゃ皆やるし、これはワンチャン5年後ぐらいにTASと同タイム出るのでは？

[@rinku6299]

TASのタイムって理論値なんですかね？

[@Trashtatine]

Why does it seem like the two Marios are chasing each other

[@Jsimentalr]

Si ves la pantalla con la técnica para ver estereogramas, podras ver a ambos Mario en pantalla y notar la diferencia de distancia y los movimientos que hace cada uno al mismo tiempo. Jajajaja

[@KevinEontrainer381]

This "TAS" player is emotionless tho he doesnt even celebrate smh

[@KaitDiaz47]

It's tool-assisted Speedrun it's by human

[@Imasteria]

Where the heck did he "lose" the frames to the TAS? o.O That's just nuts... over 4 min completly even to the TAS o.O

[@daleftuprightatsoldierfield]

Every single frame he lost to the TAS was in the last level and a majority of them were from fast accelerations and precise movements that Niftski opted not to go for to make sure he finished the run, as this is the only run to date that is tied with the TAS through 8-3. 14 of the 36 frames he lost were also due to the TAS pressing left and right simultaneously in a few spots, which is not allowed in real time runs

[@jameshakai1662]

​​@@daleftuprightatsoldierfield Not allowed? Then why does the TAS do it? Or rather, why are we comparing the run to a TAS which uses things that aren't at our disposal?

[@daleftuprightatsoldierfield]

@@jameshakai1662 not sure why they chose this TAS to compare it to when an RTA rules TAS exists. As for why the TAS is allowed to press left and right but RTA players are not, it’s because you cannot physically press left and right at the same time on an NES controller. However, the TAS is only limited by the game’s programming, which allows for simultaneous left and right inputs

[@sonic_isfastyt5019]

No human is perfect, but if someone could beat a tas bot in a run like that. That would totally break the internet.

[@Tristam_]

The machine will always win.

[@elrit6]

​@@Tristam_ it actually is possible for a human to match the no l+r tas (4:54.265)

[@asN-o1h]

TASと互角はやばい

[@2243892]

Niftski真是強到令人佩服到五體投地啊!!!!!

[@meraldlag4336]

At 2:00 ish, the L+R tas does a slower route than niftski

[@AntonDiachuk]

I wonder, if there was no such a thing as framerules, what would be the difference between TAS and human? And what would be the difference between TAS and human sum of best?

[@Wace-wes]

599 frames for the perfection

[@chrispy780]

Its actually about 26 frames

[@FllamingBarfiYT]

599 milliseconds

[@naircat]

smb's tas hasnt been improved in 11 years? how is that possible?

[@laggianput]

Simply because there hasnt been any discoveries in nearly 15

[@laggianput]

Every inch of the source code has been scrubbed for anything that could improve the times, and nothing. Unless someone discovers an ace setup

[@laggianput]

Tldr, the run being used today is using tactics that have been known for decades now. The inly improvments for rta is better setups and easier ways of doing the tas things

[@Juggernaut20247]

8 BIT Super Mario Bros

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

4:23 they entered same frame but the TAS could move first upon exist? Why?

[@GuyFunniGD]

they could both move at the same time the tas just used backwards acceleration and frame perfect jump to move at the very first frame

[@marvin720p]

Stardust Speedway Act 3 be like:

[@gavbidooof]

Perfect run by a human when

[@elrit6]

not soon

[@adieladiel-sr8vb]

TAS VS TAS fr fr

[@ilikecreeper331]

It will be super helpful if you could release more setup videos I just couldn’t get the subpixels right most of the time

[@gbkEmilgbk]

In 1:02 we see that TAS is ~0.5s faster - but in 1:46 they are equal. This means that Niftski was faster than TAS on that period. This means that probably TAS is not optimal and can be even faster and gain 4:53s

[@gmddlex5873]

U probably figured it out already but thats cuz of framerules

[@poiewhfopiewhf]

Does anyone predict that the future of SMB speedrunning will center around ILs, so much hasnt been explored because of frame rule

[@konstantinospalapanidis6414]

How can one be sure that this TAS cannot be improved? I mean it does not seem it can but on the other hand it would be nice if there was something more substantial towards this direction. (trying really hard to avoid saying the word 'proof')

[@TrimutiusToo]

One cannot be sure... it is an NP complete problem, and those are hard to prove... the only way to be sure is to try every single input sequence possible, but that would take forever so not possible really

[@DGPlayzGG]

what do you guys use to play on pc

[@elrit6]

an emulator

[@Arthurroo00]

Looking at it, there were moments where Niftski was ahead of TAS and moments where he was losing some time. Watching these two, I am sure that TAS is still not the highest possible peak, the speedrunning community still has a lot to conquer. Going below 4:54 should be possible, but its inhuman challenge.

[@jankriveccvetkovic767]

No tas has ever gotten below 4:54 and considering the amount of time that went into dissecting every last possible pixel of this game, I genuinely think this tas right here is the fastest possible way to beat it.

[@suppdx]

​@@jankriveccvetkovic767 I mean the fact that Niftski was ahead of TAS at some point of this already means that the TAS run can be improved, no?

[@jankriveccvetkovic767]

@@suppdx not quite. The game checks every 22 frames whether mario has reached the end or not. This basically means that you can only bring the end time down 22 frames at a time. The only exception to this is the last level where you can see TAS getting the upper hand with that quick pipe jump. The reason the TAS is sometimes "slower" is because it's messing around, doing tricks and always going to the finish on the last possible frame. So afaik this is the fastest TAS ever made of the game, and believe me, people HAVE tried to get it done faster. There's a pretty great video on this topic called "4:53 is almost possible" by Kosmic if you want to learn more and from somebody that actually knows what they're talking about lol

[@GardenChess]

This tas slows down at times for entertainment and it syncs back up cause of framerules

[@silverdragon2462]

I am confused; at 3:56 it looks like the TAS is solidly ahead, but then at the flag pole at 3:59 the TAS goes up whereas the player goes down, so they become equal. Is the TAS just stupid? Or am I stupid? Can the TAS be optimized if it does the same thing as the player? (keep in mind I am stupid)

[@HappyLeeHL]

There's a thing called 21-framerule in this game, for more information, please read video description, or check out other videos about SMB speedrunnning.

[@GardenChess]

Not knowing how something works does not make one stupid

[@Pankaw]

It's far from a stupid question; in fact, it's a very valid question That's because, in this game, getting a 1,3 or 6 in the units digit on the in-game timer yields 1, 3 or 6 fireworks respectively, and those waste a bunch of time. If you notice, at the speed at which the TAS was moving, it reached the flag with a 244 on the timer barely (first frame of 244 I believe), and the catch is that, in order to do a flagpole glitch, Mario has to slow down at least a little bit at some point, because pressing left is required to clip inside the pole block, and on this situation, slowing down even just a little bit would give a 243 timer, which is bad; so you can't get a 244 timer and FPG at the same time, and a 244 time without FPG is as fast as a 242 time with FPG; so this TAS basically does it just for style points

[@NoJobRob]

Imagine there's a bus....

[@tun444]

grab up = 244 (TAS only) grab down and dont wait = 243 (3 last digit = lose time to fireworks going off) grab down and wait = 242 (same time as 244 beacuse in 242 flag doesnt go down, this is calldd flagpole glitch)

[@tyesist]

突破4:55秒太強了

[@noobietubey]

Bro they were less than a *_second _*apart

[@CrasyFingers]

did the RTA go down in that 4-2 pipe faster than the TAS? i would have never guessed that

[@WolfAeterni]

the TAS loses a bit of time for entertainment purposes. Considering how OP L+R is, all the time lost is made up for in the warpzone

[@TrimutiusToo]

@@WolfAeterni Not only entertainment, this way of entering pipe even faster was just not discovered yet back then, it was considered that fast acceleration in warpzone is required until recently...

[@HappyLeeHL]

@@TrimutiusToo It's only for entertainment. Faster methods are known at least to me at that time.

[@slm0nw174]

@@HappyLeeHL gigachad

[@therealBingusGaming]

Why does the tas seem more colorful

[@elrit6]

the fceux emulator which the tas was made on has a different color pallete

[@aibuizikkyou]

殆ど変わっていない…？！

[@hardluckwoman3448]

That was crazy

[@cannibal667]

HappyLee, whats your PB in any%?

[@HappyLeeHL]

I don't have one. I don't usually do RTA.

[@beanlentil]

it's tough to do any% after TASing tbf

[@HarryLarsson-b2n]

my ears are dying

[@kazan747]

I don't get it. Who wins? RTA has 631 but has has 032

[@wilcowen]

Tas is slightly faster

[@zombieinjeans]

So wait, where does the TAS overtake him on 8-4?

[@elrit6]

basically everywhere because its the only level where all the frames count

[@LegoPlayz29]

4:58 I think he needs therapy 💀

[@sosolid4u10]

I thought he did 4.54.28 according to salts video?

[@SSoup64]

There are two versions of the TAS, one where presses both left and right at the same time, and one where it doesn’t. The version presented here is where left and right are pressed at the same time. The one presented in salt’s vid is the one without left + right.

[@JessicaWilliams-t4o]

Lockman Dam

[@bluelemon243]

What does the input L+R do ? If you send it, what happend ?

[@HappyLeeHL]

It can be used in multiple ways. Mario can accelerate faster with L+R.

[@bluelemon243]

​@@HappyLeeHLcan you explain a bit how ?

[@ZakarOFF]

1:54 is he f.cked up here? I mean, when he’s tucked at block

[@FllamingBarfiYT]

Usually the pipe doesnt lead to that place 2:01 . To set up the wrong warp iirc you need to release the vines from the box, and move a camera. The tas moves the camera by clipping into the blocks at your timestamp, and the rta does it by clipping into the pipe before entering it.

[@ZakarOFF]

@@FllamingBarfiYT augh, thank you for explanation. I know, that he is very close to TAS, but I disn’t know everything down to such details

[@Help-Rubikscubemaster029]

crazy how there is a millisecond difference

[@feorh3438]

How did the tas still win? Just the Bowser level yeah?

[@Varooooooom]

Yes

[@cizzymac]

A couple fast acceleration techniques used in 8-4 make the difference. Like right at the start of the level.

[@LeoStaley]

Why is the color different?

[@elrit6]

happylee used the fceux color pallete

[@colemontsandy3424]

Go for the perfect run Tide with the tas

[@GardenChess]

Tied*

[@MainAccReborned]

Idea: do this again but disable left and right clicking at the same time like the rta.

[@retrocash3027]

no, this is not real

[@elrit6]

yes this is real

[@KatiLyne-u8n]

Finn Route

[@Usernam51011]

0.599 seconds off...

[@elrit6]

that is still quite a lot

[@buttecake]

Kinda weird you didn't mute tas's mic

[@GigaLigma]

The TAS spends a lot of extra time showing off impossible mechanics but it's still insanely impressive a normal person can come anywhere close to that.

[@elrit6]

the tas actually doesnt loose any time on it

[@bobby4tw]

What is RTA? Is is real time input.

[@nvssgoat]

Real Time Attack

[@elrit6]

RTA (real time attack) is a normal run played in normal speed by a human and TAS (tool assisted speedrun) is a sequence of inputs made to b as fast as possible

[@tulip1634]

1:59 isn't that ahead of tas?

[@elrit6]

framerules

[@tulip1634]

@@elrit6 I literally have no recollection of saying this but I think I meant 'shouldn't the TAS've been updated to match the RTA entrance in 4-2'? (top commenter in MY replies?)

[@elrit6]

@@tulip1634 theres no need to update it if it doesnt save time

[@onigiri5687]

winer is TAS

[@deboraoliveira4892]

2011 vs 2023 is easy draw

[@jacobgoddard9688]

What is RTA?

[@horny_v1]

Real-Time-Attack

[@JoMama-b3k]

Rigged the tas can press left and right at the same time

[@elrit6]

the point of that tas is to beat the game as fast as possible by any means, there is a no l+r tas too, but its a bit slower (4:54.265 if i remember correctly)

[@greentea6422]

0.6 second...

[@ObjetZero]

TAS8-2の最後あれはミスじゃないの？RTAの勝ちでしょ

[@elrit6]

im assuming youre talking about him falling and doing the walljumps. it was added intentionally to look cool, and doesnt lose any time.