Super Saiyan 4 - The Strongest Asspull Transformation Never Seen

[@SaiyanScholar]

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[@katherineevangelia11]

they can also add Super Saiyan 4 in dragon ball super. super saiyan blue-> Blue Oozaru_>Super Saiyan 4. or Ultra Instinct-> Silver Oozaru->Super Saiyan 4 (white fur / hair)

[@crashtime3429]

I mean, he has no reason to use blue again after ssj4 is achieved. SSJ4 is the strongest saiyan form and is even stronger while combined. Ultra instinct's CONCEPT could be stacked, but not the "form":

[@Iron_potato40k]

3:11 i always figured a more lore accurate name than ss4 would be something like "mastered super oozaru" or "true form saiyan" or even "true super saiyan." as it combines base form, ssj, and oozaru and is the natural pinnicle of power for a saiyan.

[@PatLund]

It's a literal ass pull because they were pulling his tail out of his ass.

[@chahehkouadio5166]

😂best comment

[@Marconel100]

lmao

[@djw_tekken8490]

XD

[@Ghost-Zilla12]

Is Super Saiyan 4 a ass pull? no, not really. Unlike a lot of forms, SS4 made sense, was strong, and crucial to the story. If it's a ass pull, then it's the best one we ever got.

[@miles6120]

Besides the transformations introduced in super. Which super saiyan forms didn’t make sense ?

[@quanwashington]

​@@miles6120he's talking about those forms genius

[@miles6120]

@@quanwashington go ahead and quote where he says that smooth brain

[@conrado7494]

@@miles6120 ssj3

[@bepbobbap]

It's *LITERALLY* an asspull (at least for goku)

[@rickychapman6398]

Gohans beast is the biggest asspull

[@Orangutantoepics]

But gokus is literally an asspull, also asspull isn’t a bad thing really

[@M3rtyville]

Rage Trunks says "Hello, let me show you subconciously getting a power up to defeat someone vastly stronger than me."

[@DragonBallz-s9h]

@@rickychapman6398 mui too

[@SRT_DRE]

Facts. Gohan should’ve went Beast when he thought Goku died in the TOP.

[@Orangutantoepics]

@ okay rage trunks is cool it tickles my brain in the right way and all, but gosh is it stupid

[@redblueberg]

TBH I don't consider it an a$$pull, because it has a deeper meaning in the show and wasn't achieved via anger. Goku's form was achieved when he got his tail back, showing how he's going back to when he was a kid and how he's accepted his saiyan side over the years. When he looked at earth, he saw his home, somewhere he loved and cared for and when in a dire state that helped him transform into a golden ape. Despite the fact Baby is the remnants of a destroyed race the saiyans destroyed, Goku remembering his friends, family and having his grandaughter show him who he want, he reached out to the earth and was able to compress his golden ape form into a state that inherits and embodies the power of the saiyan, but with a calm, stable mind Goku's able to be himself. Beast Gohan, Super Saiyan Rage and Blue Evolution can be considered a$$pulls if you think about it, cause they come from just an out of nowhere rage moment/they give the characters and unfair form of scaling, where they could have had this exact same power many times before but only NOW do they just awaken it.

[@Syn523]

Not only that, if I recall correctly, by controlling the golden oozaru, he also controlled the original oozaru. That berserk, uncontrolled power that killed his grandpa is no longer there. He technically defeated the monster that killed his grandpa with the help of his own grandkid

[@beegpappa7900]

​@@Syn523Exactly but no, people just have to hate in this exact comment section. GT haters have no media literacy.

[@DigitalLogos]

Sorry not sorry but no transformation in the entire franchise is going to top SSJ4. It's a complete perfection of the essence of the righteous Saiyan.

[@lancetheking7524]

am an Ultra Instinct lover myself

[@A1Sasa523]

Yet gets so much glaze by fans with the only argument being 1 the design , 2 how it fits in to sayian lore when ssj and ssj god does the same shit and I hope it get done in dima (NOT) so that it’s be week and a useless form because it’s before the start of super

[@DanJuega]

​@@A1Sasa523 Nah. It fits more into the lore to get closer to the Ozaru form than "Oh, you're red now cause something, something ritual"

[@whatsupgamers139]

@@A1Sasa523 I still wonder why they don't spam that ssjGod ritual to to Gohan and the kids. Idk if I'm missing a detail but what I remember is there's no specific candidate as long as you're pure heart. The ritual is still ass tho no matter how you look at it

[@ajphelps16]

@@A1Sasa523womp womp woooomp

[@mspat8332]

Ssj4 was the right direction to take as it goes back to the sayan lore. Even the Ssj3 design was showing that the more powerful a sayan become, the closer he'd get to his Ozaru state. It makes more sense than any red, blue, pink or whatever the f*ck transformations are in Super

[@AntonRellik1123]

Amen!

[@DBZ_AnimeWORLD]

Well these not going down the saiyan route. It’s the ssj form with god ki added on top😭😭😭

[@heltonsmith6251]

@@DBZ_AnimeWORLDthey keep forgetting that those god forms are not Saiyan forms 😭

[@SansINess53]

​@@heltonsmith6251not really, super saiyan god is literally in the history of it was made by a saiyan. Not trained by a God to happen.

[@heltonsmith6251]

@@SansINess53 it isn’t a natural transformation Saiyans can obtain like the other saiyan transformations you literally need god ki just to use it

[@gorofujita5767]

Super sayan god, SSGSS and "beast" are 100x much bigger asspulls SSJ4 returns things to forgotten plot points (tail providing strength + "what ever happened to the oozaru") and wraps Dragon Ball lore very neatly, with the whole Monkey/Dragon dichotomy and Journey to the West parallels

[@thedevilsleutice]

Actually both fit very well. Since they both represent goku going into or transcending god good.

[@HarmandeepSingh-fy5zt]

Ssg wasn't an asspull 💀 it literally had a whole movie to build it up

[@Stxrry43]

None of them are asspull😭 Ssg? The whole arc before was filled with godly figures and training with gods. Ssgss? Goku turned ssj after losing ssg which could almost seem like combining the two. And when working to master god ki and surpass ssg goku and vegetas punches turned blue. Beast was foreshadowed since ToP, gohan just needed a trigger. If you hate super or can’t read just say that, but don’t spit your bs in comments

[@Super-Saiyan-Blue-Gogeta]

SSG was literally the introduction of Super, can't really call it an asspull when it's setting the precedent for the whole godhood route of power; SSGSS is just self-explanatory and honestly was expected to happen. Now Beast...is actually a certified *asspull* and a pretty obvious attempt at fanservice by trying to feed off SS2 Gohan's peak glory and even going a step further by trying to imitate SS2 but instead just making his hair to head ratio look out of place.

[@notamethadict]

@@Stxrry43 beast was a asspull so idk what your saying kid. and super is trash

[@EnvisionedBlindness]

GT is my canon end Goku lives forever not because he wished it. Because he earned it; a direct parallel to the first pilaf arc of dragonball

[@malacoda9421]

Toriyama Sensei stated that every continuity of Dragon ball is Canon. That means - Dragon ball --> Dragon ball z --> Dragon ball GT ( including Z movies except battle of gods and resurrection F) Dragon ball --> Dragon ball Kai --> Dragon ball Super Dragon ball --> Dragon ball Kai --> Dragon ball Daima These are the canonical timelines.

[@raiden8991]

GT is not even canon in the first place lol.

[@Xenojameser]

​@@raiden8991how is it not canon? It takes place after the end of z anime

[@SansINess53]

​@@raiden8991it isn't canon. But it's so good as it's better than super and the lore itself is soo cool.

[@raiden8991]

@@Xenojameser understand the meaning of canon and then talk buddy, it's not written by Toriyama.

[@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336]

It’s also worth noting that when Goku started training with Elder Kai, Goku felt that his tailbone(the root of the tail) was getting itchy, something Elder Kai noticed. So Goku’s tail was already going to come out, but due to the emergency of the situation, Elder Kai had to speed up process of what was already going to happen in the first place.

[@bikashit]

Biggest asspull till date: 1. Ultra instinct 2. Ultra Ego 3. Gohan Beast 4. Orange picollo 5. Master Roshi in ToP 6. Android 17 in ToP All these characters are so out of place that Goku ssj4 is still a far better character

[@BjjbBbb-k6x]

Most of are wrong goku and vegeta literally train in beerus planet for years Gohan does train this stated manga Piccolo just wish unlock his potential Master roshi also train is stated so many times About 17 yeah you are right that was actually asspull

[@asdprogram]

My theory is that the ability to turn into a golden oozaru is unlocked when the particular saiyan turns into a super saiyan and has a tail. Therefore I assume the power of the ss4 form is the multiplier of oozaru and supoer saiyan combined. 10*50=500, but with way better stamina compared to ss3.

[@KidGoku-g4v]

Tbh when scaled properly it reaches in billions coz of baby Vegeta.

[@King_Alistair6723]

@@asdprogram If you calculate accurately the GT power scale, the SSJ4 multiplayer is lowball 5 trillion.

[@Omeganuts24]

@@King_Alistair6723 crazy how GT washes Super power wise 😭

[@crestofhonor2349]

SSJ4’s multiplier doesn’t even get close to millions or billions nor is there anything in the series to suggest anything that high of a multiplier. A multiplier that high would make Goku or vegeta scale so high above anything in GT nothing would be a challenge

[@CrazyDiamond419]

Wrong. Super Saiyan 4 is above Golden Great Ape that much is obvious in the show. And you’re saying since SS3 is 400x base then your math is saying that SS4 is just 500x base? That makes no sense and you have no idea just how far above GT Kid Goku from the beginning of GT is to everything in Z and the villains are just as busted.

[@christopherbassit2757]

SsJ4 feels legit and primal. Future trunks in super and Gohan beast are ass pulls

[@countengladx7156]

I think an easier and frankly better explanation as to why vegeta doesn’t transform when he’s in control of himself as an oozaru is because he was never a super sayain by the time his tail was cut off lol it seems like ssj+tail+mental focus=Ssj4

[@aster4jaden]

Super Saiyan 4 just feels so natural to me, I like Super Saiyan God but Super Saiyan Blue feels too rushed and I don't think it's ever won an actual fight on its own.

[@ParadoxsLifetime]

Gogeta vs broly?

[@aster4jaden]

@@ParadoxsLifetime That's a fusion first, I mean Goku using Super Saiyan Blue on his own.

[@ParadoxsLifetime]

@ Goku vs hit I think

[@AriesBozz]

@@ParadoxsLifetimedidn't he need kaioken?

[@ParadoxsLifetime]

@ it’s still blue is it not?

[@obsidianfury5617]

I've done bigger ass pulls on the toilet than the SSJ4 transformation. My shit warps reality...

[@LucLightWolf121]

@@obsidianfury5617 🤭😆😂🤣

[@skywarp0564]

For Goku to change to SSJ4 in my opinion was his self control to become SSJ4, to where as Vegeta already have self control and resolve to become SSj4 he just had to let go of his Pride to become SSj4. Thats how I feel on these transformation in comparison to how Super did the transformation.

[@kaioken654]

Super saiyan 4, the best upgrade since the original Super Saiyan

[@LucLightWolf121]

It's a unique transformation that has grown on me over the years. When I first saw it years ago, I wasn't a fan. However, the more I got into the lore of DRAGON BALL and its connection to Sun Wukong, the Monkey King, the more I started to appreciate it. Personally, I want to see what a Super Saiya-Jin 4/Mastered Ultimate Instinct Form would look like. Especially, a Broly variant. Now that would be fun to observe. Thanks for this video, Scholar.

[@SaiyanScholar]

🫡❤️🔥

[@Asymilum]

@LucLightWolf121 there is a ssj4 broly seen in dragon ball heroes and some games. Plot is wack but is fun

[@Speedracer6]

the funny thing is ssj4 actually came with inbuilt ultra instinct. Goku flat out states that attacks don't work twice on him anymore and it's a plot point. They also get slight regeneration and stronger bodies thanks to oozaru. SSj4 was quite stacked as a power up.

[@wolfgangvetter4032]

@@LucLightWolf121 If you wanna see such a form, I recommend watching UnrealEnt Gaming’s “The Five Strongest” fan manga. It showcases a form of Goku’s which should be exactly what you’re looking for: Primal Ultra Instinct.

[@mwaithephoto]

The strongest asspull?? Are we forgetting Gohans Beast form? Or we just ignoring that?

[@KSubsforBenk]

You cant say SSJ4 is the Strongest Asspull when Beast Gohan exists.

[@strawhat9023]

My head-canon ending up saying all yellow haired super Saiyan forms are the same; Super Saiyan 3 being the final form and max power of a "super saiyan". Because the SS4 is a derivative of great ape and the super saiyan by combining them, I see Super Saiyan 4 as the 'True Super Saiyan 2'.

[@Peyton-f8m]

This is my logical conclusion. Baby vegeta couldn't achieve SS4. Vegeta couldn't go SS3 for a LONG time. After training and going ozaru, VEGETA got to SS3. Vegeta used SS3 in ozaru and thats SS4. SS3 + ozaru is SS4. That is why its so strong and so stable. The ozaru forms massive stamina and body's strength is condensed down to keep SS3 stable. SS1 plus ozaru was what frieza probably originally feared. As thats a 10X and 50X multiplier. Even a WEAK petty small saiyan could beat him with that. Infact, Nappa with SS1 would be 4k X 10 X 50. Raddits would be like 1400 X 10 X 50. Any saiyan with a decent power level would DESTROY frieza/ everyone of his soldiers. Remember, cooler stated he was more powerful than his brother now that he unlocked his new form. This means frieza probably wasn't always THAT strong as a baby, like he got punished by his father. Same as Cooler. As frieza aged he gained more power. So a teen Frieza probably not so comfortable around ozaru saiyans

[@kamenrangerzeo8251]

Super Saiyan 4 has more wins than Super Saiyan Blue. And the form is the true pinnacle of Saiyan power that can go toe to toe with god like villains and they never need God forms to overcome the odds.

[@A1Sasa523]

@@kamenrangerzeo8251 you said god like not actual gods. And for wins ssj blue vegeta vs frost, cabba, the trio of danger ssj blue goku vs manga hit freiza trio of danger again and if you don’t believe cabba still stomps ssj and day of the week

[@NuclearRizzicist]

​@@A1Sasa523 holy cope, this guy using vastly weaker opponents than what SSBlue is supposedly capable of and calling them wins 😂 Cabba aint shit and neither was discount Frieza (Frost). Blue would get wiped by Syn Shenron low diff lmao

[@A1Sasa523]

@@NuclearRizzicist I’m lmao on the cope your give me you call them weaker characters sure but still a win plus when did I was what blue was capable of just stay over there proving you don’t watch or read the show with a non canon transformation with no movies and that didn’t break the internet super still better in games media movies and let alone canon😂😂😂

[@phantomrogue7894]

@@NuclearRizzicist Okay, but who did SS4 beat that was on his level? He beat Baby(With help), Lost to Super 17, Beat Eis Shenron and technically Nuova Shenron but other than that, he only beat some fodder Shadow Dragons and one them, he didn't even beat, he lost to rain. Goku actually beat Golden Frieza without help, even Frieza admits this. He beat Copy Vegeta(Terrible arc but it still counts), he technically tied with Hit but didn't use Kaioken, If you count SSBE, Vegeta beat Toppo, Gogeta would have destroyed Broly if he wasn't wished away, and in the manga, Goku beat Sagambo.

[@NuclearRizzicist]

@phantomrogue7894 and the triggered paragraph ensues. Blue loses to fodder shadow dragons 🥱

[@SeanMacadelic]

It should have just stopped at 4. The endless transformations of Super, devalues all of the transformations up to that point. They should have just made mystic/ultimate the “god” transformation. Like a form beyond transformation.

[@shangothunder1055]

That’s an awful take. Glad it didn’t happen.

[@Super-7327]

​@@shangothunder1055 L

[@shangothunder1055]

@@Super-7327 😂

[@Man1999-cy8ye]

@@shangothunder1055he is og fan and he understands,you re just biased

[@shangothunder1055]

@@Man1999-cy8ye I’m an og fan since DB; you just have no point.

[@malacoda9421]

Like the old transforms Ssj4 had a theme Ssj was using your rage as a weapon Ssj2 Letting it go. It's not a sin to fight for the right cause Ssj 3 Even further beyond. Discipline to go beyond your limits Ssj 4 Controlling your rage/ beast. Controlling it instead of letting it control you Ssj 4 made perfect sense from a lore, theme and design prospective. We can even see from ssj2 to 3 Goku looks and sounds more like a beast. The evolution like leading to Ssj 4. That transformation was 100 percent earned. Beast Gohan was the biggest ass pull. Ssj god and ssb blue are more of an ass pull. Ui and mui concepts are old recycled concepts from og dragon ball. Goku could always move without thinking. Even his training for UI is an inferior version of his OG training.

[@JonTheJedi]

I feel like super saiyan 4 is the actual form of the super saiyan of legend. At least that’s my head cannon, ss4 is the true super saiyan.

[@TheFalseDragon]

ever heard the saying "show do not tell" nothing about ssj4 is an asspull. it dosent need to be explained litterly when it can be explained visually, and it was explained in detail visually very good which means its not an a%%pull in the slightest. this is yet another terrible "in-depth" dragon ball video made for clicks. ssj4 is achieved by a sayian that mastered the super sayian form and therefore the golden fur of the oozaru. it was not made like this for no reason. it suppose to signify that a sayian reached his ultimate peak and ssj 4 suppose to be the last and ultimate form of the sayian which is why it looks so ape-like because its a sayian getting back to its roots. just today i watched those episodes again. i dont see why you call that an a%% pull unless you dont know any better. of course the elder kai will know about this. this is why hes an elder kai. so of course he will know that pulling goku's tail will get him eventually into super sayian 4. an real a%%pull is ssj god. it may be toryama own a%%pull but the power level boos goku got from this little lame ritual was insane. ssj4 still wasent that much of a power up compared with ssj god. UI is also an a%%pull because nobody can master it in 48 minutes.

[@XBlackMoonRisingX015]

26:36 Not to mention his shirt literally grows back in this scene, and him and goku grow pants after being golden Oozaru

[@ssppeeaarr]

lol so its the form that grants saiyans a version of clothes beam of nameks... its a magical form too. since it can break a wish of dragonballs. ssj4 goat. forever.

[@om58499]

Heck i say the same thing when baby vegeta went to his 2 form his pants break just to get new pants and clothes

[@ASAINATL]

This is the same series where piccolo can magically form clothing for gohan out of thin air

[@gensischronicles1148]

Love these videos

[@ekalB210]

I like gt... as an alternate timeline 😂

[@franthehonest-eyes4883]

SSJ4 + Ultra Instinct = SSJ5, it's just matter of time

[@crestofhonor2349]

Ultra instinct has already been combined with other forms, more specifically Super Saiyan God. It wouldn’t work with Super Saiyan 4 as the two forms work against each other

[@freemygrandma956]

I’ve been saying it for years, ssj4 should be the actual form when a tail is included in the ssj transformation. Makes sense why we don’t see it as well cause well none of the saiyans have their tails.

[@YoungBlood20101]

The whole tail thing has always been messy and ridiculous. Piccolo ripped off Gohan's tail. Gohan's grew back during the Vegeta fight, where all of a sudden, Gohan has a full tail and transforms, defeating Vegeta. Tail fully regrew naturally, out of nowhere. Goku and Vegeta tails removed, they never grow back naturally. Gohan is half sayain, exact same parrents as Goten, yet Goten has no tail. Trunks and Bulla, also half, also no tail. Tori's explanation about "Sayain bodies deciding they are unnecessary appendages.", is ridiculous. Thats like if you broke your arm, you dont use your arm while its broken, but you're alive and mobile, so instead of healing your arm, your body decides to self amputate because "well, he's been opening doors just fine." Lol no. If he hated drawing tails, lol just do the tail as a belt like all the full blood saiyans do.

[@ralphcoleiv8095]

obnoxious take: SSJ$ is actually just the legitimate SSJ2 form. Considering it needed another physical transformation (genome sequencing) before then performing the otherwise already known ascending SSJ1-3 transformation; resulting in creating something new all together - ie. not just something on the already developed power scale gradient. They're different creatures when they transform, catalyzing something new.

[@spaceman30055]

Calling 4 an asspull when beast gohan exists is insane

[@crestofhonor2349]

Just because one form is a bigger asspull doesn’t negate the other form from being an asspull

[@Barisdagame]

The golden ozaru form is forever goated and ssj4 wasnt an asspull it felt like he came to his senses love it!

[@felixthescholarlytitan4437]

Personally, if they had gone with calling it something like Primal Super Saiyan m I would have been fine with that.

[@sephirrothvt]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 man people become victims of the cannon, GT had a new goku transformation ( people were mad about it but super then gave us 3 more ), another body double, people were mad about baby just the same as goku black, a new set of deities from the dragon ball, super gave us xeno and daima goku reverted back to his child form, just enjoy the profuct, it will nver be perfect

[@robocatssj3theofficial]

honestly, ssj4 is probably my favorite form. ultra instinct in close second (and it is technically a form the way goku uses it), since despite being an asspull in the top it was actually kind of done justice in the moro arc.

[@Asin24]

Agree, SSJ$ is an A+ asspull. Something that they created, made a reason for it, the form itself actually has some sense given the saiysn link to Great Ape, and over-all just became a cool form. I just wish Super remotely tried, all their transformations are such F- asspulls, the only one I actually thought was a good one (if it can count as a 'transofrmation' is SSJG Kaioken. An actual asspull that felt clever and you could argue made some sense.

[@om58499]

Yeah the kaioken and blue combine was a smart move. Anyway when goku was fighting pikon in otherworld he did something similar with super sayain it called super kaioken i think that where there get the idea form.

[@ethangnasher3848]

Finally, someone who watched the video, unlike the butthurts just commenting for the title alone.

[@oreoblizzard1662]

Super Sayian 4 should have been Gokus God form. It would have felt like less of an asspull, and it makes sense that embracing his saiyan lineage makes him stronger. SSGSS would have given him purple fur and ultra instinct would be the pinnacle of power by embracing a life of martial arts and his lineage.

[@albertoluis1544]

Imagine Evolving your species 3 times(4 if you include cooler) for generations and only get more or less 200x power boost from your base species and then there's 2 monkeys that surpasses those multiplayer by long shot in one generation and evolution... Man~ kais being Unfair with their creation

[@ssppeeaarr]

well if you go with dbs canon freeza now has training hax that can easily wreck anything goku and vegeta attain... even more he has his own ROSAT. currently the strongest bad in the lore who surpassed both god and destroyer buff saiyans at their peak. lol shin really messed up in making freezas kind that powerful. at least there is only one of his kind around tho. or freeza was just special and his pa too. oh and unless cooler hype becomes canon like broly. someday. but i feel its a low key way to keep the saiyans in check. so the kais did good job.

[@Peyton-f8m]

To be fair, in 50 years frieza never worked out once and was stronger than Super saiyans(anyone weaker base than goku would get washed). He trained for a few months and by passed, SS2, SS3, SSg and SSGSS level of power. That is WAY more BS. The real question is, how many moons was on the original vegeta planet. Not vegeta 2. And, were the monkeys ALWAYS in super mode. Just think. What if original saiyans were always great ape monsters. Like That makes far more sense than randomly form swapping on every night. LoL

[@ssppeeaarr]

@@Peyton-f8m interesting. but if they were always in the ape forms how would they get off that planet and reolcate to vegeta 2. their bodies cant fit inside the small pods. and i doubt freeza would make new big ships just for them. but the apes and the tails lore needs to make a comeback. i hope toyo feels this way too... and we finally get ss4 in some form or way.

[@iTechGamingLOL]

If anything , this should have been introduced as super saiyan beast compared to w.e. gohans transformation is. but most likely was scrapped in a similar fashion as ssj3 because it was taking to much time and effort making always the hair, that's also one of the main reasons ssj3 later on wasn't really used that much in the story.

[@scitechaiutopia]

I wish a reboot of GT happens.

[@ahratazaratazahla6923]

Vegeta had control of his ozaru in his original fight with Goku

[@theweaponsmerchant5140]

SSJ4 isn’t really even a super saiyan form. It seems more like a consolidated great ape that could act on its own as a new or alternative base form

[@louisvictor3473]

The name Super Saiyan 4 works also well when we consider that one of the ways of saying the number 4 in Japanese is the same as the word for death, leading to some superstition around #4 itself being unlucky, like in some places you won't have a room #4 or a floor #4. Sure, normally this sounds like a negative association. But if we focus on the fact that in numbered lists 4 is treated specially and differently from the others, and the fact that people avoiding to say the name of something is also a show of respect for and of acknowledgment of some kind of power that said something has, I think it really fits. It is a number just like 1, 2, 3, but also kind of special and separate from the others; it is the next number of 3 from some perspectives, but from others it is not, and both are true at the same time because they're just angles of the same thing but the person who first gave it a name just picked the most convenient perspective to do so.

[@JoeUchiha-gs5ru]

orange pants on super Saiyan 4 is awesome

[@villelater2708]

Alright even if we aren't talking about power ... it's pretty clear more hair was happening at ssj3 and it couldn't get longer so the hair had to spread other places to balance ssj4

[@nerfman6s2ndacc]

I dont think oozaru would have been as useless in Z as implied. Ssj3 is officially 8x stronger than ssj1, and oozaru is a 10x multiplier so super saiyan oozaru would presumably be 10x stronger than ssj1

[@pyrogundam117]

Seeing those Dragon Ball Final Bout clips makes me miss playing that game 😢 lol

[@TylerOwens-q1f]

My head canon is that the tail won't grow back if you reach a power level over 15,000. This fact was never known to the Saiyans, hence why Vegeta thought it would grow back but didn't. Also, in my HC, Golden Oozau could only be reached after a Saiyan has unlocked "Super Saiyan 2." In my HC, Golden Oozau is a 100x to Oozau, which is why you need to unlock Ssj2. Also, in my HC, SSJ4 is actually the closest a saiyan can get to godhood without god ki. This explains the redish fur. Also, Ssj4 Gogeta is so powerful because he is actually a Super Saiyan God.

[@R055LE]

The most underrated concept in GT. Golden Super Saiyan tail.

[@SparklingJam]

Has no one made a joke about the “asspull”?

[@UltimateX1188]

Ego, UI and Beast at least aren't Saiyan exclusive forms, which makes me wonder how strong Yamcha, Tien the goddamn role model and Krillin could become if they learned these forms of power.

[@shariqhasan6220]

One thing that bugs me is that why Goku and Vegeta get new clothes when they turn into SSJ4 but this never happens for SSJ1 TO SSJ3 transformations. Even Super also follows the same convention, where all the new forms introduced only cause hair color to change and increase in power levels but the clothes remain the same.

[@redorcas]

Maybe to fit the overall Ozaru form? Perhaps?

[@SuperJpzee]

Universe 6 super saiyans = biggest asspull.

[@macrochipped]

Maybe everytime Vegeta transforms into Super Saiyan 4, now his tail grows back along with his hair and gloves

[@savemgs]

Hey, I have a question for you. In some of your videos, you mention that when Goku went Super Saiyan against Frieza, it wasn’t his maximum power due to being physically beaten down. You estimated that if he were fully healthy, his power level would have been well over 150 million. My question is the opposite-what if Frieza hadn’t been hit by the Spirit Bomb? People often overlook or ignore the fact that Frieza took massive damage from it. In the manga, it even seemed like he believed he might actually die before being consumed by the blast. What do you think his maximum power would have been in that case? Obviously, this is all speculation, and events would have had to play out differently to get to this outcome, but I’d love to hear your thoughts. Could Frieza have been even more powerful than Goku at that point?

[@Peyton-f8m]

I honestly wonder. Frieza is the only villain that got GOT by the spirit bomb and lived that was evil. Jiren wasn't evil, Goku objectively FORCED him into this battle so bam. Not exactly great. Kid buu died. Frieza lived. Vegeta wasn't hit with a bomb but ball anyway. Turles got got. Wheelo got got. Slug got got. Android 13... kinda got got. And Omega shenron got got. What if frieza was actually FAR stronger than base SS1. AND was just toying around with goku originally? It would make tons of sense to justify the bull crap scaling he goes through later to bypass SSgSS aka BLUE AND how he passes ultra instinct and ego as black. Tho I doublt it. He probably was at least knocked down hard.

[@whoistonyredgrave1478]

I always interpreted old Kai as having seen at least one other SSJ4 in the past

[@Mega_Evolution_]

Love this review series every time, Saiyan Scholar!😍 I’m excited to see what the next episode will be like though. Can't wait! By the way, it would be awesome if you could check your inbox - we've sent you an email!🤗

[@Pa1ad1no]

I guess calling it Asspull is kinda lore accurate, or tailpull maybe.

[@dwightnorton3398]

Super Human? Our History

[@Orangutantoepics]

this is an excellent explanation of super saiyan 4. imo the baby ark as a whole is a top 10 ark of the franchise, the ark right before and right after kinda sucked, and i feel like the shadow dragon ark could have been executed better.

[@redorcas]

I love GT so much, literally my childhood, and i idolize ssj4

[@keelanperumal1980]

I think to a degree on the fanbase calling it an asspull is a bit mixed. Comparing how ssj4 was gotten vs how blue was gotten is something always overlooked. In super goku and vegeta literally get time to actually train and learn to achieve that form. Where in GT, goku has literally no time to go train and learn to achieve it otherwise baby vegeta would literally win. Elder Kai helping me him fasten the process was necessary. Same with vegeta getting his form during the black star arc as the dragons where pretty much threating earth and existence. So it's not like they can go and tell there enemies "hey give me like weeks or a month to just learn this new form real quick, then I'll come and fight you".

[@annoying267]

People saying beast is a asspull and it's not it was hinted at a ton and the way he achieved it is super believable

[@brandontownsend3987]

Andriod 16: Gohan I just met you?!! Gohan: who are you ?!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 👎🏽 Goku: goodbye son Gohan: 😭😭😭

[@Meelow-jp8lb]

Every form in Dragon Ball has made narrative sense besides Blue and Rage.

[@ClintonBeaver-dc4mj]

Real question if you put eyebrows on ss3 does it look better, or worse or if you take the eyeliner off from the ss4 transformation does it look better?

[@kfedi5]

Just put ss4 in super already on top of ui😢 ue🔥they can stack them like kioken

[@marquiseh5128]

Vegeta taking control of golden oozaru faster is perfectly fine given he had already mastered oozaru before

[@JonTheJedi]

What is the 3d Vegeta from GT from? A game maybe?

[@NATEGODZILLA525]

It was stated that SSJ4 GOGETA could beat omega shenron with a finger just saying

[@Call_Me_WAM]

@16:50 Couldn't Goku's tail have returned when he was turned back into a child? That probably would have been a smoother retcon... Wonder if SS4 wasn't planned at the point.

[@DartzTheGamer]

I would have liked for SSJ4 to have come back in Super as the SS god form. It would have been a cool way to make it a part of the canon and it would have still been the next step after 3. Also I just think the tails were the coolest part of the Saiyans and it was upsetting that they were left out after the Saiyan Saga

[@BoomerSage]

Comment for engagement

[@mokaza40]

Remember, dragon ball GT happened AFTER dragon ball super. So that means, goku believed SSJ4 is superior to Ultra Instinct. He would rather go SSJ4 for his last fight instead of his God Ki transformation. ssj4 < god ki transformations

[@crestofhonor2349]

GT and Super are entirely different continuities. You cannot compare them in that manner. Far too many contradictions between Super and GT to even have them take place in the same timeline so your logic doesn’t work. Plus why wouldn’t Goku use God Ki before he achieves 4, as the god forms are still significantly better than Super Saiyan 1-3

[@treyvonishere4375]

Nakatsuru was in his bag with this one

[@eursinphinity6279]

Goku attained SS4 through magic and Vegeta attained SS4 through science.

[@ultrainstinctbryan2384]

I thought saiyan takes stopped growing back after puberty

[@MierePC]

I think every single transformation is an ass pull besides the first one ssj 1.

[@Peyton-f8m]

They have always had, tails that let them get 10X stronger. Going 10X has always had its existence available. Stacking with SS of any ratio would be well... yeah.

[@cristifernandes9375]

I still think of the potential of the super saiyan 4 to expand the lifetime of saiyans, since it pushes you to your prime lets say your are 90 and almost at the end of your lifespan if would turn into it and since it has such formiddable ki control you could add a lot more to a saiyans lifetime no?

[@HunterLee-r8f]

Hopefully the form stays in GT. We don’t need 80’s rock band monkey goku Being cannon.

[@jackhewitt5718]

The impression I got from the show before KZbin and theories was that ssj3 and 4 are kinda the same thing. When goku turns ssj3 you see the ape form morphing into gokus base symbolising that he’s using the power of ssj4 but it has mutated because of the lack of tail and mastery of the ape form. Like goku brute forced the evolution without the correct ingredients. I see it like humans and apes. We evolved to have less hair than apes just like ssj3 has no eyebrows. I also think vegeta’s ssj4 form looks different because of a mutation because he achieved the form without a tail and also mastering ssj3. But because he mastered great ape and achieved ssj2 he was able to turn into ssj4. I also think ssj1 and 2 are the same thing. 2 is the the fully master version of super sayian and 3 is forcing the next evolution (ssj4) “going further beyond”.

[@GloryIsTheP]

Super Saiyan beast

[@Aluze]

They both learned and trained into super forms but by then had severed their connection to the ape side, the more saiyan side of themselves, considering it obsolete. So it took the two parts being brought back together again to ascend, so it makes sense it was then a natural next step. So I Kinda forgive how anticlimactic it was, it was always here waiting for them.

[@obitoxshinobi8978]

Nice Gingar i wanna be a pokemon gym leader who uses fire 🔥 pokemon

[@Lunkyful]

I wonder what goku would look like if he kept his tail when he ascended to SS. 🤔

[@anubisgravatate7544]

This proves ss4 is canon no matter what no one says

[@crestofhonor2349]

Not at all

[@EsmeraldaMontana]

What happened to Trunks and Gotens tails?

[@SuperBubbleduck]

ehh, my only gripe is the elder supreme kai said there was once a group of them. BULL.

[@2024thegoatyear]

Honesly we shouldve gotten a goku jr series from a continuions from dbgt hero legacy

[@GroovyDude00]

Well, we did see it in GT.

[@mikecru9229]

Ssj4 is like a God/legendary transformation

[@jaeybxrd]

Ahem... inserts rage Trunks and Beast Gohan

[@bicokun]

SSJ3 was achieved offscreen. Gotenks also just… could do that. For no reason.

[@xblazekingz7070]

I think logically ssj4 is actually the base form of the saiyans since its mixed with ozaru. And not ssj4. If ssj4 exist with out golden hair then there should be 4 more transformations after it,. It takes ssj ozaru to be a ssj4 but the transformation if golden ozaru is not ssj4 its just a set up to ssj4. Ssj4 wich is base in my opinion, after it should come ssj5 wich is ssj4 with gold hair, the ssj6 with sharper hair like ssj2 , then finaly ssj7 with long hair like ssj3 and if we wanna make it cannon then the ultra instinct white hair mixed with making it ssj8 9 and 10 all restarting as ssj1 2 and 3 with the look of saj4 but with white hair. That is the only way ssj1 to 10 can make any sense.

[@shubhamghoshal2939]

Ssj4 shpuld've completely dogwalked Baby imo, even after he became the Golden Ape