Supercharge your atari ST, SpeedoGDOS, NDVI, NeoDesk and Geneva

[@Milan____]

I have not spent even a full minute thinking about Atari ST in the past four decades, but I still want to say I appreciate how well is this video made - straight to the point, technical but not patronizing, nicely flowing narration. Good job, really!

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

THank you I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@VK2FVAX]

Indeed. I wish I could get interested in my ST and Falcon. They sit there since the 90's when I used them for software porting of an app I used to sell, and I still just keep using my Amiga's. Atari's are nice.. but I seem to always keep using the Amiga's. I do though love my 8bit atari xe.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

A falcon in the cupboard? Count me jealous 😀

[@HPPalmtopTube]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Hi, What are the specs of the Atari ST you're using for this video please ? Cheers, Terrence

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

@@HPPalmtopTube Hi Terrence, It's an Atari ST-FM (68000 @8MHz) with a 4MB memory upgrade.

[@Xsiondu]

Oh my man has 230 subscribers‽‽‽! I'm getting on this knowledge train right now!!!! Thank you algorithm! for this wonderfulComputer History Discovery.

[@Shifter-1040ST]

Great channel for enthusiaSTs and STarters! I really like your narration style

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Thank you I appreciate the comments. More to come!

[@pandacongolais]

Nice ! At the same time, so many memories, and new software to test on my STe sitting on a shelf over my monitor !

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

STe? Very nice must get one, one of these days, a blitter would be brilliant.

[@pandacongolais]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Yes, nice update to the hardware. On this regards, I don't have a lot of memories of this upgrade (1991), except for the blitter, the larger color palette, and the 8 bits stereo sound. I know I have regrets : I had to resell my first ST. Yes, just ST, not ST, the one with the mouse and joystick connectors placed at the correct location ! And the separated floppy drive, and two power supplies ! But I remember perfectly why I upgraded. Do you have few minutes ?... OK, a friend of mine was doing a lot of scans, using those "primitive" hand scanner that you rolled like a one dimensional mouse over your document. And he was not pleased by the current image processing softwares. So he began to make his own, using GFA Basic. He asked for help many times; although he was in an engineering school at the time, he was more into electronics than coding. At some point, this software, Studio Effects, reached a point where a small company, EuroSoft, made it a commercial product. That was a two guys company, one at marketing, the other one, Dominique Uzun, known for a cartridge that could freeze the ST* and allowed you to search the memory for images, sounds, or perhaps change scores in games ... The same one signed few games loaders with "Cracked by Dom" few years earlier ! I switched from the ST 1 MB to the STe 4 MB to code two things : a conversion of the code that displayed the images (24 bits + 8 bits mask) from C to assembly language. And later, a 3D module in which you could build a 3D shape and map your current image on its polygons (something that got quickly replaced by hardware acceleration ...). I could replace a course project by this one and it was rewarded fairly. And I earned few thousand FF (French Francs), enough to buy my first Psion 3 ! Later, they tried to make a Windows version of Studio Effects, but both the project and the company disappeared. OK, that's already too much ! But this computer carries so many memories ! I couldn't help but share !

[@DarrylHughes]

I used to use Quick ST rather than NVDI although I never did try NVDI 2. Great video brings back lots of memories.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

I hope I get a few alternatives. I’d love to do a dvi off, competition. I do like me a good benchmark 😀

[@saurondp]

Quick ST is what I used back in the day as well, although it's much more limited than NVDI and has a lot more compatibility issues. Warp 9 was another, although I don't recall every giving it a try. There was a similar freeware program that I ended up sticking with, but can't for the life of me remember what it was called.

[@bortsimons7457]

THX. As a beginner, this video was extremely helpful and saved me a lot of time researching all these tools

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Glad it helped!

[@gabrielcamacho6112]

These videos are excellent. Please keep them coming!

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Glad you are enjoying them. I’m enjoying making them.

[@saurondp]

NeoDesk and Geneva were must-have tools back in the day for those who wanted to get some serious work done. NVDI works wonders for speeding up the system, just a shame that it still costs a pretty penny to get ahold of (same with HDDRIVER).

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Imagine releasing a software update for windows that gives you a massive performance improvement. You’d be rich. Nvdi is expensive but getting v5 is kind of impossible for me as they don’t deal outside of the EU and their resellers appear to no longer sell it.

[@saurondp]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Oh yeah no kidding! It's too bad there haven't been any freeware or open source equivalents that have been released.

[@MacSociety]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit are you saying someone like me in USA can't buy NVDI 5? Bummer if that is the case.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

@@MacSociety As far as i can tell from their web site they say: Orders out side the EU please contact our english distributor System Solutions. That link leads to a dead page and there is no mention of NVDI anywhere on that site. There are comments on the forums that say the NVDI authors aren't very communitive and there is a lot od dead air. I'm not really sure if it's still a going concern. If it is still going it's a crying shame as there are people around who seem prepared to buy the software in numbers.

[@visualer]

Oh! what a cool channel! Keep going! Not so many videos on atari ST on the youtube . thank you very much for your hard work

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Thank you I appreciate the comment. There’s more ST content to come. But others too.

[@CFalcon030]

Great presentation. I would have ignored speedogdos and go directly to NVDI 5 or at the very least 3 for improved speed and font support. I am embarrassed to say I ve always been a Mint/Multitos fan so I ve never run Geneva/Neodesk and I ve only had a bit of contact with Magic. It seems like a very good system to run, especially with over 2mb of free RAM.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

I’m really glad you liked it. I totally agree you on the nvdi 5 part. I did originally have a bit on that in the video. But the original recording came in at 30 minutes so some drastic cuts had to be made to get it down to 17 minutes! I’m prepping to do a free mint video, but it’s tricky working out a story for it that is shorter than war and peace 😀

[@Barcrest]

Any reason you went for such an old version of nvdi?

[@gregferguson7737]

​@@Barcrestcheck the other Q&A's. Seems they don't sell outside the EU

[@mmille10]

Really liked this, since this is the first time I've seen an ST user talk people through these mods. I used to read reviews about NeoDesk and Geneva in Current Notes, but it wasn't the same as seeing it here. I've long since put my STe away. I've occasionally come back to "ST land" through emulation. I liked the idea of Geneva when I first heard about it, but what made me hesitant was software compatibility. I used my STe for productivity, but I also liked playing games on it. Until I saw the comments here, I didn't know how one would turn it off for that. I am a bit curious how Geneva does with TOS/TTP applications. Does it work with them? Can it still multitask with a TOS app? Can it do "TOS app. in a window"? A good amount of the software I used on my STe were TOS apps., because they liked to take full control of the screen. One example was ANSITerm. I used MiNT/TOSWin on my STe for a few years. That was pretty neat, since I was able to take a couple of my college CS projects and run them on it! The toolset felt "insane," because it had a lot of the GNU tools ported to MiNT. So, it felt a lot like Unix (minus virtual memory/disk swapping).

[@IntoTheVerticalBlank]

Great video! Wow! More of this.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

More to come. I’m in research mode

[@mrentropy64]

Thanks for doing this video. I found it interesting. I'm a little surprised you didn't point out the split window feature of NeoDesk 4.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

This video could have been hours long and still only covering NeoDesk :-) As this series progresses I'm pointing out NeoDesk features as I go.

[@mrentropy64]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit True enough. I had just got done copying and moving files into subdirectories on Windows and it struck me that the split window would have come in handy, right then.

[@JonathanGibbins-u4m]

And as if by magic my STe is now flying even better than before. I've been a long time Geneva+NeoDesk user but NVDI has turned the desktop speeds into something else. Thanks!

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

You are very welcome.

[@jda4887]

Thank you so much for this video, i have forgetten how to pimp up my Mste (i did it 20 years ago by installing slowly those programs from ST magazine disks ). I couldnt remember what to install and my HDD has failed a long time ago.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

I'm enjoying doing this series. I'm basically recreating the system that got me through University, step by step.

[@DeadCat-42]

I have one beat up old 520 rev B board. I took my mods out of my 1040 and restored it to stock with a nice refurbish on the power supply and clean up of sockets and pins etc. the beat up old 520 is going in a pc case with all my mods. RAM 16 mghz, roms, blitter etc..

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Sounds like a fun project. Pizza box or tower case? I think I’d go pizza box for a mega st esthetic

[@DeadCat-42]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit That would be nice as I have a Pizza box Hard drive (with an actual running SCSI drive in.) The ST is such an odd size.

[@DirkDierickx]

great video, the tos enhancement tools are so many, it is difficult to know what some things do, nice to have a decent overview like this, including benchmarks.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Glad it was helpful!

[@AtariCrypt]

This was a great video!!! Loved it, especially the in-depth graphs for comparisons. I'm a MagiC/NVDI guy.. unless I'm gaming then I'm plain old TOS 1.62 all the way ;)

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Now Magic is a desktop i'd like to get to know. Maybe some time further down the line.

[@AtariCrypt]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Look forward to that!!! 👍🏻

[@10MARC]

Excellent video. It gives me lots of ideas on how to improve my 1040 ST.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Hi Praise indeed coming from you. Thanks very much.

[@PaulHockerOnEarth]

Great video. Where do I find the line demo program you are running when testing the multitasking? Thanks.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

I've been looking around my hard disk images and i'm embarrased to say I can't find it. I got it off a floppysop disk i think. If i find it i'll let you know.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Sorry for the delay, but i came across these online today, so ill update this. lines, eyes and others here milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/index.php?folder=/FUN

[@MacSociety]

Really enjoyed this. thanks!

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Thganks, happy that you liked it.

[@Barnaclebeard]

How does Geneva relate to MiNT/Multitos? I get the sense that it is an alternative that works differently, but you seem to be running apps intended for multitos. Is it built on top of MiNT?

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Hi. THis is totally different tech, it cooperative multitasking (Geneva), rather than premptive (like mint). The apps I am running are just GEM apps like the lines and clock programs and so they don't care whats doing the multitasking. Hope this helps D

[@PooperScooperTrooper]

Cool video. I need more more memory for my ST as it's only a 520STfm :-( AFAIK, it's a right royal PITA to install memory for the ST though

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

it is, though some of the modern memory upgrades are easier to fit than the ones back in the day.

[@WinrichNaujoks]

SpeedoGDOS, NVIDI come with all those true type fonts and printer drivers, but in which app can I actually use them?

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Quite a lot of the later desktops used them and productivity apps too. However a lot of apps did come with their own fonts and font rendering software (I'm thinking Calmus and Degas).

[@WinrichNaujoks]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Yes, so which apps in particular used those fonts?

[@ardeneberly4450]

Great video, but how do you get NeoDesk to auto-boot without loading Geneva? I like the idea of Geneva, but I am hesitant. What is it's impact on Games? I had a bad experience with MultiTOS back in the day... I am using an ST with 4 megs and TOS 1.04.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Without Geneva just install neodesk. It’s a gem app and can be set to start at boot via prefs in tos 1.04 and up

[@pauldeane8369]

These are all really interesting updates however I found once I had everything up and running there is no RAM left to actually run programs. And I am using a Mega 2. This is even after I removed all my NETUSBEE drivers.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

What was the base RAM of your Mega 2, if it's 4MB, I'm very surprised. If you went with NVDI, i'd suggest looking at the cache size that it is using in the control panel. Or is it low memory for games?

[@pauldeane8369]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit MEGA ST 2 has 2MB. Most any other application would not run due to low memory. I didn't even attempt any games. Hmm...where do I find the cache size? Can't seem to see anything in the control panel.

[@TheClassicsCoder]

Awesome video. I will all try out. It really gives the ST a new (retro) life ❤. Have to find new links for it, it seems that the gribnif URL is no longer working ?!?

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

I checked it recently and it was. Search gribnif from google

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Was working I mean :-)

[@TheClassicsCoder]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Yes sorry, it works just not with when I enter it does :)

[@ethanali3917]

Thank you for the great video although the link seems to be broken or access denied thanks again

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

it certainly ;looks down. it has dissapeared before and resurfaced, theres an installed version available on a HDD image on my old blog site here: www.overtakenbyevents.com/Atari-ST-HDD-Image-For-My-KZbin-Series/

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

use the bottom image

[@drzeissler]

very good explanation. Thx!

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

You're welcome!

[@arti040]

I'm curious - why are you using NVDI 2.x instead of 5.x?

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Watch the next video I upgraded😀

[@stephanerichard3979]

i noticed memory wasn't the same under geneva/neodesk steem emulator, width a 4 meg st. Word Up and works did not want to load saying memlry was the problem ... is there a switch or something that i am missing?

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

sorry for the delay in replying. by default nidi takes a ridiculous amount of memory. check the nidi control panel tool and set the cache size to a low value: say 80k

[@pauldeane8369]

So when I install NVDI it crashes right after boot with the error "Invalid Handle! Handle = $0000" Ideas? Tried different settings, with or without GDOS. - update: I changed the ASSIGN.SYS from from the one on the floppy. It boots ok. But my GEMBench stats are no different, if not a little bit worse. It's does state NVDI is present.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Which version of nvdi did you install?

[@pauldeane8369]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit Same, 2.51

[@pauldeane8369]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit The more I play around with ASSIGN.SYS the better things are. I now have it booting and getting good results, although I still get that "handle" error, it no longer crashes.

[@DbugII]

Would the same set of upgrade work fine for a Mega STe with a VME graphic card?

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Short answer is probably not. However if you watch the third video in this series (currently being recorded) I update to nvdi 5 and that should work with your card

[@WinrichNaujoks]

I'm having a hard time finding SpeedoGDOS. Does anyone know where I can find it?

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

The abandon ware page on atari fourum as usual saves the daye. www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=32323

[@peddersoldchap]

Link to NeoDesk and Geneva -- doesn't work.

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Thanks for the spot. The site appears down, i'll wait to see if it pops back up or remove the link if it doesn't

[@darrenirwin]

I have speedogdos 1 UK rev B and 2 rev A on original atari disks up for sale on ebay

[@Retroguyuk75]

Your link doesn't seem to work anymore :(

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Try this: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qzusx16ec30tptwmin7or/NeoDesk.zip?rlkey=9en4q5d5u7aedhvytlws4giy3&dl=1

[@Retroguyuk75]

@@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit awesome thanks 😃💯🙏

[@JornLavoll]

good stuff!

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

Glad you liked it!

[@MrPetari]

Well, this are nice alternatives to built in OS (TOS in ROM) . But would be good to know about compatibility with different SW for Atari ST . And of course, this is rather some kind of historical thing now. Nobody serious will use 35+ years old computer for some serious work today. For instance because small screen resolution. Speed is about 10000x lower than speed of some new PC . Even with emulator I can achieve 30-50x better speed than speed of 8 Mhz ST . And I actually use it - for instance doing ASM programming. Imagine assembling some 800 KB long S source file at regular 8 MHz speed - takes about half hour. With acceleration - under 1 minute. And as it goes may need to repeat it several times until everything is OK. Multitasking helps not in that. Or in other words: this fruit is now far from being fresh :-)

[@commodoreisnottheonlyfruit]

This is part of an evolving series. I’ll definitely cover comparability when I come across it. In the next episode I have to make some changes because of it.

[@rebeccaschade3987]

I get what you're saying, but old systems can have their real world productivity use. It's not that rare to find authors who use older computers for the writing, because it gives them a work environment with fewer distractions, such as modern internet access and so forth. Sure, an unaccelerated Atari ST might be pushing a bit, but I'm planning on using my A1200 for that very task once I finish moving this summer. Also, doing pixel art for game design is something where older systems can excel at. Some musicians still use Atari ST with high res monochrome display and Cubase for all their midi sequencing. So it's not entirely true that "nobody serious would use 35+ years old computers for serious work today." For many tasks, the factor of diminishing returns kick in LONG before we move into modern computers. Whatever makes you more productive, for whatever reason, is the best tool for the job.

[@saurondp]

Leave it to Peter to be a wet blanket. Is it possible for you to post anything positive? No, probably not, otherwise you wouldn't be banned from so many Atari forums.