Dungeon Meshi - Spelunking On the Spectrum

[@moviesfilmsandmotionpictur8364]

to quote a tumblr user whose username I don't remember, 'Kabru is trying to play 5D mind chess with a guy whose hobby is barking like a dog'

[@sleepyyghostt]

oh my god i love that post

[@the.eggbert]

it was awittylemon :)

[@DarklyQuill]

KILL SIX BILLION DEMONS ICON AND BANNER PEEPED REACH HEAVEN THROUGH VIOLENCE

[@kaylemgodinez]

I mainly read kabru with intense paranoia and a few other things mentioned in the video

[@extrarainbowsprinkles]

😂oh my goodness that’s a fantastic way to put it

[@a_raichub]

In the manga (probably later), it's pointed out that Laios used to not be "himself" until Falin got eaten by the dragon. In other words, what we see in the present is Laios with his '"mask" off...that's why his party was surprised about his special interest in monsters.

[@scotginger4690]

Makes sense, he'd probably confide in his sister in private when they're all adventuring together. But now with no one to turn and be himself to, he'd let the mask fly off anyway.

[@thedeliveryboy1123]

You can actually see in the beginning that he's still sort of masking (he's kind of stern when talking about eating monsters), but as soon as the party meets Senshi, another person who likes monsters, the mask comes off and he starts getting really excited about monsters

[@amdete8254]

“Her autism doesn’t deprive her of social capital, though” Maybe not with her party, but… the majority of people in the world dungeon meshi don’t like Falin. She was ostracized by her village growing up, and then ostracized by her classmates. She was also a social pariah, it’s just that her party is full of those.

[@amdete8254]

With that said awesome video

[@dodo-uz4ct]

And her party is mostly because of Laios and Marcille knowing that she needed special care.

[@justcallmeSheriff]

I also had the thought that the girls at the magic school picked up on how different she was more easily than others bc they lived in close proximity and were learning together.

[@gottolovethedoctor]

Waframe amir

[@uncannybirds2386]

I was thinking the same thing! Even within for party, even. Chil feels uncomfortable around Falin (although not in a manner that wouldn't make him enthusiastic to see her rescue), which is something I really relate to, that constant eerie feeling that everyone is just uncomfortable around you, like you're a fake human, no matter how much you mask or not, and further, that feeling of uncomfortableness being taught to me about other autistic individuals as I've gotten better at masking, or the people closest to me got "used" to me.

[@doodskull8150]

I saw a post that said "Kabru is playing 3 dimensional mind chess with a man who barks like a dog and he's losing." And I think that is a VERY accurate summarization of those two character's interactions.

[@stuffie5175]

Agreed and that is hilarious!

[@sunnisideup444]

Agreed. I saw a meme where Kabru is playing 5D chess where Laios is secretly eating Kabru’s pieces when he’s not looking

[@Slammaa]

but 3D chess is normal

[@doodskull8150]

@@Slammaa SHIT.

[@zanthe_]

​@Slammaa how many chess games you played where your pawn goes UP instead of forward?

[@dex1o_15]

Saw someone describe Kabru as minmaxing social interaction and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since lmao

[@genericcatgirl]

You're so right

[@jooot_6850]

man put all his stats into Speech and Persuasion

[@Otsuko]

would Kabru feel similar to having Imposter syndrome?

[@sirsmiteful6285]

@@jooot_6850I wouldn’t say that…he’s got the finesse to go toe to toe with people. Hell he fought like a man possessed with the scummy dungeon revival team, but I don’t really know how to describe his situation with monsters…

[@jooot_6850]

@@sirsmiteful6285 he is good at killing people, but seems to struggle with even relatively basic monsters like treasure bugs

[@blank101_9]

I cried when liaos said " why did you expect me to not be exited when i got my first freind on the island." 😭😭😭

[@tuiteyfruity5010]

Falin being autistic was solidified for me when she was depicted showing up with random bugs and plants and barging in on Marcille without any explanation. She had no conception of the social rules for making friends and interacting with friends. Just because she wants to hang out with Marcille. but she cannot express this and Marcille didn’t pick up on it either. She and Laios also understand each other and can translate their autism to their friends! We see Laios explain Falin’s actions to Marcille and we know Falin supported Laios in his interactions.

[@dodo-uz4ct]

That's also where I realize that Marcille take a role of mother/big-sister to Falin, due to her special need. Because in that interaction, it's hinted that Falin does this all the time and Marcille sometime rejected it.

[@somedragonbastard]

​@@dodo-uz4ct "mother/big sister" ...yeah sure that's definitely what that relationship is

[@wafflesthearttoad6916]

The moment I saw how similar she was to her brother I just knew. The excitement to show Marcille (did I spell her name right???) the little dungeon she found really hit home with me wanting to show things I’ve found or made with people I like, maybe to the point of being annoying (no one’s told me that yet though so I’ll assume not?).

[@eduardanascimento8763]

And the way Marcille only truly understood what Falin meant when she heard Laios talking about how Falin was also a weird and lonely child just like him. It was bittersweet and really broke my heart.

[@tuiteyfruity5010]

@@wafflesthearttoad6916 yes absolutely that scene as well. When I speak about scenes that “solidify” my head canon or interpretation there’s usually many scenes contributing but this is the one that glued them all together.

[@aspergianstoryteller6204]

When Laios was saying that if Falin hadn't been eaten, he never would have gotten to experience eating monsters, I immediately knew he meant it in a "every cloud has a silver lining" way. The sympathy hit me so hard then, like, dude, I know exactly what you mean.

[@scylla1772]

I read it as "everyone knows Falin being eaten was bad, so I'll just say this other thing that just occurred to me despite that" Not that my read is more accurate. I like the different perceptions of the same event :0

[@Hallasammal]

In addition to the Falin part: imo it's not as simple as "everyone likes Falin" - sure, we're following a bunch of people who care about her a LOT. But when Kabru was talking about Laios being "indifferent to people", he said the same thing about Falin too. It's likely many people outside her own party do find her strange just like Laios. And we're shown that she was a very lonely child who struggled socially and academically, both while living at home and later in school. It's only after she made her first friend, Marcille, that she opens up more. Laios says in the last episode something along the lines of "Falin was a lot tougher than me mentally." It's likely they were both ostracized since they were children, they just dealt with it differently

[@dee_river]

In general when people outside of their group are talking about Falin they say things like "Touden siblings are weird", "they are not good people" etc. Falin and Laios were seen by the outsiders as a monolith, with each of them being seen as half of off-putting duo. And she was definitely struggling too. And lonely. And misunderstood. And even after she made a friend in the school - the moment she saw Laios, she had joined him. Without hesitation. Because she knew that the only person who both her, and her brother, can be fully themselves with... is each other. (And now I made myself sad 😅)

[@elsesome2707]

@@dee_river Falin unfortunately also seems to be a bit of a people pleasing doormat, possibly as result of trying to survive alone in the village and trying to make it in Magic School. She considered accepting Toshiro's proposal purely off chance it was her only chance to be married, she happily heals less effectively by numbing the healing pains with magic first, and her very forbiddingly telling Marcille that she doesn't care about the potential harm of her teleportation spell. She seems to have been decently successful at the academy, having a prestigious job lined up for her after graduation, but abandoned it in heartbeat when seeing the state Laios was in after traveling with a merchant caravan. Unwashed, haggard, half-starved, almost entirely given up on anything but base survival. Bad enough that she didn't hestitate to dropout and run.

[@Gogito4]

Chilchuck himself voices how Falin is unsettling in the extras. I think he understands that she means well, but as a highly sociable person, the fact that he cannot get a read on her at all makes him second guess it.

[@ZikeShapeshifter]

@@elsesome2707 while i 100% agree that seeing Laios in that state must have played a major role on Falin's decision on joining him, i truly believe a good part of it was that since they where children, Falin's dream was to travel the world along with Laios, and fullfiling this dream was pretty much served in a silver platter when Laios appeared at the academy, saying he was heading to the island

[@dodo-uz4ct]

To add to that, Marcille plays a huge role in raising and developing Falin, at least socially. Before they met, Falin was isolated and closed-off to everyone, when Marcille came along she breaks Falin's barrier and shows Falin that there are people that will accept and love her outside her brother. If they've never met, chances are Falin would be a woman that only believes her brother and no one else.

[@sydneygorelick7484]

6:30 "you get five autistic people in a room, you're gonna hear seven opinions" I have never heard a more accurate statement in my life

[@isadoracostahamsi163]

I can probably give you 2-3 by myself

[@Amy-mo1un]

hold on, i think i kinda get it? from what i get it's 1 person having more ideas/opinions than others, right? how does that relate to autism? /srs

[@necrofish00]

I have to mention, Shuro's problem isn't STRICTLY cultural; it's that he's a Young Master in this culture, and also very shy. It's repeated in various moments and supplementary material that Shuro is like, very very unusually shy, even by Japanese standards. Literally everyone around him is brash and direct, even the extremely restrained Benichidori. His Japanese culture is not the issue, it's his privilege and innate timidity.

[@ems9616]

+++ i think ive also seen people headcannon that Toshiro himself may also be autistic, but VERY heavily masking due to his position as the young master requiring that of him. I believe he even says he feels jelous of Laois at times .....

[@lostozian_turandot]

Fantastic addition; I’m an anime only who’s gradually catching up on the manga, and I remember having an instant prejudice against Shuro because everything about him seemed more Symbolic than Personal. He’s the aesthetic-breaking samurai, representative of another culture, titled lord of a foreign land, enforcer of social expectations… and god, it’s so stifling. But thank you for helping me flip that on its head; if I find it stifling, imagine how Shuro feels. 😢 The concept of him being shy as a truly owned personality trait makes him way more interesting as a character. I hope you’re having a great day!!!

[@cat_spit]

This is an excellent observation. As somebody who's was been called extremely shy when I was younger (actually I just have pretty bad social anxiety disorder, which thankfully I can cope with better now), I also used to get really uncomfortable with interactions where the other person didn't pick up on what I was trying to say, especially if the message was "no" or "leave me alone." It put me in a position where I felt like I HAD to keep interacting, because I didn't want to be rude, but I just got more and more irritated and resentful. It makes perfect sense that Toshiro would have that problem, between his personality traits and the social taboos his culture and status place on less polite signals. Also, the longer you're trapped in that situation, the more impossible it feels to say anything more direct.

[@standingbylife]

Also because of his rather traumatic childhood because of Maizuru. Plus being in his father’s shadow.

[@Pollito_Con_Papas555]

​@@standingbylife can I have some context?

[@justas423]

A little theory on Kabru and "manipulative tactics": The reason this behavior seems/is manipulative is because to an autistic person not innately privy to the rules of social interaction, any use of those rules, behaviors etc. is unnatural or a mask. You don't really use them in the semi-conscious way most do, almost all of it is a conscious decision. I say this because of my own personal experiences. Sometimes I use certain behaviors because I know it will help me get out of situations and because I had to learn these things since they didn't come naturally, I get a sense of "I'm doing a thing to elicit the proper response", like a guilt for manipulating someone by saying I'm real busy when I'm not.

[@DeRien8]

Ah, "the proper response" is definitely something I find myself agonizing over sometimes. Or just trying to figure out what someone wants from me so that I can appease. Probably Audhd but tend to just get a "you're kind of an odd case, hard to pin down" reaction from therapists, add in an unhealthy dose of low self-worth, and boom, social chameleon. Always floating in and out of social groups

[@lozm4835]

As I've played characters in Dungeons and Dragons, especially as a Dungeon Master, I've found myself in the position of playing cruel, manipulative characters, and being good at it. The skill I have at portraying characters who are able to manipulate others to their whims, act in vicious ways that they arrange pieces to make sure the consequences don't hurt them, and overall game the system, sometimes at the expense of my players can be uncomfortable to me. In part because I also sometimes feel like I'm just doing the right thing, much like you describe. My internal monologue is never clearer (if irrational) then when I'm most upset, and I habitually overact to get across what I'm thinking and this has led to the fear that I'm just performing my emotions to get what I desire.

[@jorgefuentes8559]

Oh fr! If I know the response that will mediate a situation or an action I can take that makes me more favorable or makes people happy then I’m gonna take it

[@Silentgrace11]

When I first watched Dungeon Meshi Kabru made me uncomfortable, but now he feels awful relatable after watching this video/reading your comment? I have social anxiety that conveniently overlaps into autistic tendencies a lot (my therapist says I’m probably not, but honestly I’m not entirely sure since her reasons are “well you do this and that” when this and that were learned traits ;v;) and the level I do social analyzing and practicing the “right” reaction makes Kabru’s analyses almost uncanny. Constantly assessing the situation and forcing myself to remember the “wrong” responses so that I know not to do them anymore like it’s a long, elaborate game of chess where the other player has all the pieces but I’m still trucking along anyway ;v;

[@M_M_ODonnell]

It's the ND catch-22: we can fail to learn the details of the "normal" social behavior (and then we're "being rude" or "not paying attention to people") or we can learn it the only way we're able to (and then we're "manipulative" for making it a consciously learned behavior instead of a semi-conscious semi-instinctive deeply-absorbed set of responses).

[@MathMasterism]

For me, the point where Laios went from "He just like me, fr, fr" to "Okay, I think this guy is ACTUALLY autistic" was when a friend so me a bonus panel of the manga that explained whose mind created each of doppelgangers and why they perceived that person that way. The way Laios's brain consistently missed obvious and sometimes iconic physical details, was not only very relatable, but all but said that Laios's mind just works differently than everyone else's. Also, that bit where we hear Laios's parents say "How do you expect to survive in the real world?" hit so close to home that I could hear it knocking at the door. Lastly, I'm so glad Delicious in Dungeon gets that an autistic hyperfocus is a compulsion and not a superpower. Laios's "fun facts" can be useful, but can just as well be barely relevant (and we know this is intentional since Senshi does not have this problem).

[@PirateQueen1720]

Indeed! The doppelgangers that came out of Laios' brain got a real "haha relatable!" laugh out of me. I am real bad at recognizing people out of context, and I've been known to describe casual acquaintances so incorrectly that people have given me funny looks when they finally meet them. But the fact that he's able to figure out some of the more similar-looking clones using his much more accurate observations of his friends' behavior around food and monsters is also pretty spot on - I can remember fine details about a story someone told or topics they are into or foods they like or reject WAY more easily than I'll notice what side their scarf is tied on or what color their eyes are.

[@timoth4529]

well except for Marcille the one thats all serious is the one out of Laioses Memorys. not recognizing Chillchuck scarf and Senshis Helmet correctly are probably his though.

[@amaliarobo1318]

​@@timoth4529 I saw someone mention in another comment section that he remembered her like that because that's what she looked like after resurrecting Falin (the long flowy not-tied-up hair, how tired and serious she was, i'm sure there's more but right now i can't think of more, etc.)

[@dodo-uz4ct]

​@@amaliarobo1318 yeah basically, the image of depressed, beaten-up, serious Marcille when she resurrected his sister etch onto his mind like no other.

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

But even the barely relevent ones can still be usefull later on, such as when Marcille tries to hook the giant bats. She only managed because of Laios' Fun Facts!. Fun Facts! can still be very usefull, even though they're compulsions. The more knowledge gained and shared the better!

[@NixFaerie]

It's very funny being autistic and Laios comes on screen and its immediately like wow this is such an amazing, compassionate, complex character who loves so many people and things and is intelligent and passionate, willing to grow and make hard decisions, he's a strong leader, this is peak character writing that conveys so many things in literally every new scene. This is one of the best characters I've ever seen written. And then you go online and find out everyone else thought Laios was a wet cardboard cutout of Generic Human Fighter that becomes a deconstruction of it halfway through the series when all those traits that have been there on full display from episode 1 finally culminate into be moments.

[@samuelbarros1563]

Laios is not even a good fighter. He uses a sword because that is what he learned, but there is some indications that he could be other class

[@V3lv3n]

​@@samuelbarros1563really more of a paladin with his level of conviction

[@redgoldcrown3990]

@@V3lv3n if he could find an oath to swear to that isn't either "protect Falin" or "hunt and study more monsters" lmao.

[@proxy90909]

​@@redgoldcrown3990 I mean... Either of those could work lol

[@animeotaku307]

@@samuelbarros1563I’d say ranger, but IDK if he could pick a favored enemy.

[@kekero540]

I would also like to note historically. Romance between nobles in Japan was extremely complicated and autistic traits in women could easily be misinterpreted and seen as “overly feminine” before the Meiji period it was expected that a woman would only communicate via third parties before meeting their expected partner personally (sometimes even speaking to eachother through a paper screen. So Falin’s non romantic autistic behavior could be seen as almost flirtatious and extremely attractive in a medieval Japanese context.

[@Nitram4392]

Huh.

[@chlorophyll1415]

So THEY BOTH didn't realize that he was in love?

[@sablesoft]

its interesting, but i dont really think thats the case with shuro

[@fraidnaught9067]

@@chlorophyll1415 I mean, the proposal was probably a pretty big hint for her.

[@iqingkok]

​@@fraidnaught9067 yea but didn't he said why he love her and just immediately propose to her..... So she may have no idea about his feelings until his proposal and have to take some time to think about it before answering the question bc she was flabbergasted 😂😂

[@justmyselfcn]

Laios: Autistic Kabru: Autistic Falin: Autistic Izutsumi: Nyatistic

[@genericname2747]

Autiscat

[@dee_river]

One point I don't fully agree with is that Laios never exhibits a mask... He does not - NOW. The way his party members react when they see him go all out about monsters, how they are surprised with things he says and ways he says them... you'd have thought that this is their first trip together. Which it definitely was not. You said it yourself, they've probably known each other for years. Laios WAS masking by not being so overexcited about monsters. By not saying first thing that came to his mind. By not showing clearly and openly how deep his obsession with monsters goes. Yes, from the societal point of view? Even if he was limiting himself in his expression, and biting his tongue and was not openly gushing about his hyperfixation, he still would be perceived as a "weirdo". But sucking at masking the way that is socially acceptable does not mean that someone does NOT mask. So in general - yes, I do agree with your analysis of Kabru, and you actually put perfectly into words something I was not 100% sure about myself, due to myself having much more of Laios than Kabru form of autism 😉. Which probably explains a lot why I feel so passionate about hearing the lack of mask mentioned when it comes to Laios. People like Laios still do mask, we're just not too good at it 😉 despite feeling like we're doing a lot and enough and desperately trying to shove ourselves into neat little boxes we have no way of fitting in so we would finally belong and be accepted somewhere. P.S. Senshi is another character in series I consider to be autistic 😀. But he gives much more of "autistic dad who never realised he was autistic before talking with his autistic child about autism" vibe 😀

[@arabellasterwerf7980]

Oh my god, Senshi is sooo definitely Autistic!! Also, that comment took me out on how accurate that is!😂 Also, I agree with you on Laios! He is definitely masking in the beginning! Especially with the party not being aware that he loved monsters. He is definitely unmasking his Autistic traits now and it's glorious!

[@SteveAkaDarktimes]

currently struggling. Job interviews are an absolute nightmare.

[@Drekromancer]

@@SteveAkaDarktimes Stay strong, brother. You'll find a place that understands you for your own sake. Just hold out hope, and don't be afraid to be honest with the interviewer about struggling with the format. Often times, they'll be fairly accommodating.

[@cosmicdib4823]

Oh yeah, you're right. He's masking, especially at the start of the series. He's very dry and uh idk what to compare his behaviour to... uhhh.. a disinterested colleague? A marvel character without the cringey dialogue? Idk.

[@LordOfPais]

This absolutely! I also think Laios' unmasking was spurred by meeting someone who shares his special interest, even if Senshi's interest in it isn't rooted in the same way as Laios' is. If you'll forgive the potential roughness of the simile, it's like when the train kid meets a conductor and he's free to just unload everything he's taught himself about trains because he's finally with someone who *also* likes trains and can understand all the cool stuff about them.

[@astridmarie6412]

I also love that the voice actor for Laios (english) (Damian Haas) is autistic which just makes me happy

[@saparapatepete]

Wow......Didn't know Damian was on the spectrum

[@astridmarie6412]

@@saparapatepete Yup, he is very open about it! /gen

[@spiralcasket]

NO WAY HOLY SHITTT

[@ToozdaysChild]

"Maybe you should get better at reading the room, Laios!" "HOW, Shuro?!" These lines punched me in the gut. Laios literally asking "HOW?!" was decades of bullshit being validated. We don't always understand. We don't always pick up on cues. And that one 'how' made me feel understood. I can't stress enough how great it feels to have a hero that feels like me. He's not some unattainable goal or a paragon of some lofty ideal. He's a dumbass trying to be a good person; not always succeeding but trying all the same.

[@its_sisha_not_chair505]

I also like how his hyper fixation comes out justified as a strength instead of "autism gives u Super analitycal powers because yes" mans had to study that for pure passion and interest wheres other people would just read about how to kill em, laios learns EVERYTHING, about them, which gives him the upperhand in critical moments where information is crucial. As for other people, reading and learning about monsters could be as tiring as having a biology career, laios sees it as fucking Pokemon.

[@indridcold9593]

it felt SO cathartic seeing that interaction play out. saddening for sure, but i felt understood in a way i've never experienced from media before

[@NoiseDay]

That quote got me to pause the video to go actually watch the show

[@animeotaku307]

Oh, the frustration of people saying “you need to get better at performing this social thing.” Like that’s all I need to hear to magically do the thing. Too relatable.

[@ToozdaysChild]

@@animeotaku307 Big "If you're homeless just buy a house' energy.

[@chickennuggetqueen150]

laios being authentically autistic, unmasked and appreciated by his peers is so healing

[@trudivination8497]

“I’ve picked up on something no one is going into depth about” Me: huh????? “Except for the people on tumblr who really absolutely have” Me: oh right I live there 😅

[@ThemermaidPearl]

I'm surprised cause every KZbin video, TikTok and twitter I have seen from the fandom agree about it.

[@rancorious7785]

Tumblr is the LeBron of overanalyzing fictional characters

[@chris-rp3jl]

I love Tumblr omg

[@nikki607]

The DunMeshi discourse on Tumblr is giving me LIFE ngl

[@AppleJuiceStudios]

Same. We're all living still in the depths of tumblr hell

[@ebrdsht]

OH MY GOD I AM SO GLAD YOU TALKED ABOUT KABRU ALSO BEING AUTISITIC. I relate to him so deeply!!! I have very similar manarisms; finding social situations I shouldn't find funny funny, my internal tree of relationships, the overly polite way of speaking, even the internalized anger problems when something doesn't line up with my understanding of social laws. Its so validating to see another autisic person bringing it up. The conversation around masking is also very appreciated, ive had a hard time framing my own "emotional morphing" as anything other than manipulation. it can be a really hard line to ride when you know what to do to "win" social situations when i should be more balanced than that.

[@isadoracostahamsi163]

Agree! It sometimes feels like "with power comes responsability" kind of situation. Like, I can say the thing that will end this conflict, but it will be manipulative, but if I dont say it the conflict will escalate til the exact scenario I predict in my head. It is almost a trolley problem. I have the power to push the lever, but should I?

[@АринаРоманова-м3э]

Glad to see someone else being related to Kabru! All my friends hated him while watching show first time as he's "manipulative" and I felt deeply ashamed bc oh... I'm just the same thing with hyperfixating on people... Except I don't exactly make situations work my way, but there was time I tried to lol

[@ventusthekey5187]

It's an interesting exploration of how many people view autistic woman as a desirable manic pixie dream girl archetype, but autistic men that portray the same traits are usually seen as annoying or a joke. I've been in the exact scenario Laios was in. A guy got close to me so he could get closer to my sister (who is also autistic) and called me annoying when he called me out for not picking up on his queues. He was not happy when I pointed out that the traits he found attractive in her where exactly why he found me annoying.

[@sablesoft]

i do think its important to note that in all the ways that falin and laios are similar, they are very different as well, and many of the things that shuro likes about falin is something that she doesnt really share with laios so much. also first impressions can be hard to shake

[@ma.2089]

Do people really? Cuz the show explicitly shows how miserable and alone Falin is as well. But maybe that’s the point, they want a girl who is isolated to have “power” over. I doubt they think well of their autistic traits.

[@kjarakravik4837]

​@@sablesoftYou say that, but what are these traits of Falin's that Shuro likes about her that she doesn't share with Laios? Because the only one I can think of is she knows how to mask. That's it. People bring up the caterpillar but they both like bugs, we see Laios play with them and put them I his drawer in the living armour episode

[@ac4941]

As an autistic woman who can mask enough to pass for a while, dating has always been very hard because the ND traits in me that people consider charming at first, slowly become annoying. I think NT people do get a first impression of ND women as manic pixie dream girls, but at the end of the day, if you're annoyed by autism, you'll still be annoyed by it eventually. Especially once you start doing major relationship steps like moving in, and spending more 1-on1 time together. While I don't know what Falin does in the manga (haven't read yep) her proposal from Shiro, and consideration to accept it due to it possibly being her only shot to get married, are both relatable and deeply unsettling to me.

[@sablesoft]

@@kjarakravik4837 laios and falin have different personalities, because they are different people. they may have the same traits but they present them in their own way. the thing that shuro has an issue with in laios is something that they seemingly dont share, that is treading over shuros idea of common courtesy, and not being able to take a hint. also important is that shuro and laios are still friends, these are just grievances that came out in the heat of the moment, and now something they can put behind them.

[@Liketaknoww]

We love to see it!! One thing I will say is: while Falin and Laios DO overlap quite a lot, it's not necessarily that Shuro/Toshiro loves Falin for the same things he's annoyed by Laios for, it's very much in the presentation. I don't think he could've stood years of a coworker who was obsessed with monsters if "obsession with monsters" was a breaking point for him, I think it's because Laios is Loud and Incessant and Does It At Times When Shuro Would Like To Be Sleeping. Also, we see he doesn't *hate* Laios, it's just that he's hungry, and tired, and stressed, and he's hit a breaking point, and yes he's always held some level of annoyance with Laios but he doesn't MEAN all the things he says when he's angry and they're fighting. It's a popular anime trope to have a Big Explosive Fight and then a reveal of the true feelings underneath after the beatdown, and we see that here with Shuro's admission of jealousy/the gift of the bell. Not to #shurodefensesquad on your entirely understandable perspective, but as someone who thinks that Toshiro is ALSO autistic, and just very Eastern about it, I am constantly fascinated by how every single character makes complete sense from their own internal logic and perspective. Also lbr who wouldn't fall in love with Falin I get it. Also yes big agree on "wait... the autistic headcannon... is the popular one this time????" Like. Obviously *I* know Laios is autistic, what do you mean the rest of the internet also knows he's autistic? I'm not used to being in the majority opinion here :0

[@redgoldcrown3990]

I am also a "Shuro WAS frustrated with Laios but also extremely hangry" believer lmao. Shuro's self-neglect is VISIBLE, there is no way not eating, not sleeping, performing only the barest minimum of personal hygiene, and obsessing about having to rescue his crush from a DRAGON (that only didn't eat him because of her) DIDN'T do a number on his emotional state. he blew up at Laios because he was already breaking down, the issues with Laios were just the closest and the most easily targeted.

[@Medidon94]

The scene with Laois and Shuro struck a big chord with me because I had a similar thing happen to me as a kid. A kid I thought was my best friend told me he had always hated me, and it completely destroyed my self-esteem, basically until after high school. Having Laois go through something similar felt cathartic, especially since the show is asking us as the audience to sympathize with him. I don't know if Ryoko Kui is autistic herself, but she is a master at writing autistic characters.

[@chlorophyll1415]

Other commentators have noted that in her past works they (the personalities of the spectrum). And there are two options here = SHE is ONE OF US, or she has a close one from the spectrum.

[@cosmicdib4823]

I watched this episode after attending a birthday party. Let's just say I ruined the mood bc I was being an autistic bitch haha

[@finboror]

I've been lucky enough not to experience that, but I could still relate to it. My partner worries about social etiquette and good first impressions, so to them I'm a walking disaster. Sometimes after a social situation they might scold me for being rude or weird, to which I reply "why didn't you tell me sooner??" and they'd reply something about hints and social cues. They understand me and I understand them better nowadays, but it's still difficult. When they try to gesture to me to do/stop doing something by moving their eyes, I realise that they're trying to say _something_ but have no idea what. Then I might straight up ask, and apparently I'm not supposed to do that either...

[@zacharynguyen7286]

Hope everyone is doing good. ❤️

[@shinykasu2205]

@@finboror sorry this sounds like a big issue to me, i hope your partner learns not to be ashamed of you and takes the time to communicate things to you in ways that you understand instead of policing you like a child. never should your partner think you're a "walking disaster" for any reason. i'm glad it's slightly better now, but this sounds really troubling, i hope you find a middle ground soon

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

One of my favourite parts about Dunmeshi's representation of neurodivergency is that Laios never once "resolves to do better" or the like. It's accepted right out the gate that he is simply the way he is, and there is nothing about him that needs to be "fixed." Does he sometimes fall into stereotype? Yes, and I think that's very intentional, because he's operating within the Charles Dickens' school of representation. Dickens wrote stories about the poor, not so that the poor could have characters they perfectly related to, but so that the rich could understand and empathize with the perspectives and struggles of the lower class, all while remaining entertaining enough to disguise the lesson. Dungeon Meshi is the Oliver Twist of neurodivergence.

[@scotginger4690]

"Dungeon Meshi is the Oliver Twist of neuro divergence." Is definitely in my top 10 sentences this year.

[@pierofasulli1076]

That's not true at all though.

[@iAstra]

I remember when Laios said that Falin had a way of tying herself to a person and just following them around and as a woman with autism, diagnosed in my late teens, I just saw myself in that. I was also so emotional during the Laios and Shuro fight. I got so mad on Laios' behalf because that's been me growing up!

[@pyro-millie5533]

Falin tying herself to someone and following them around is exactly how I’ve always been with friends. More than once, its caused people to get annoyed with me and break off the friendship.

[@mayuwu4408]

entry number 3592 of OH MY GOD THATS AN AUTISM THING TOO??? OKAY GOOD TO KNOW I FEEL MUCH BETTER ABOUT THIS NOW 😭😭😭

[@aimeea.3775]

​@@mayuwu4408ikr? I'm constantly learning new things that point towards me being autistic but I'm undiagnosed so mostly I'm like "that's a thing?!" Or "That's a thing normal people don't do?!"

[@fetcherperson]

As a Japanese, I think when the author said "He is a normal person" she didn't mean "He is neurotypical". What she meant was like "He is one of us".

[@kaca2137]

Dungeon meshi's author already had a lot of experience writing neurodivergent people. I really recommend reading a short story from her other manga Hikidashi ni Terrarium - perfect communication. It's only 5 pages but it's such a good representation of anxiety and other difficulties in communicating with other people

[@finboror]

Nobody can convince me she's neurotypical. The way she explores neurodivergence is so creative _and_ accurate that it can only be achieved by someone with lived experience.

[@luketheclone]

The rambling mess of thoughts spilling out, completely incomprehensible to anyone but yourself, is so real. I notice that happening to me so often.

[@a_raichub]

​@@finboror I'm also convinced she's bi

[@cooky2991]

My dad, brother and I are autistic. I'd say my special interests aren't too unusual, but my dad and brother's special interests overlapped a lot, so while at home my experience felt more like laios with his group, my experience everywhere else was more like Falin's and I've become very good at adapting to various situations like Kabru. It was so nice to see such a variety of experiences that I see myself reflected in and I was crying a lot later on into the show. It's nice to be seen

[@Cruznick06]

If you read the manga (and watch all of season 1), Falin absolutely did not "get away with it". Falin was ostracized as a child, at magic school, and even was considered "weird" by people in the town hear the dungeon. She was blatantly treated poorly by her classmates at school. She *ran away* from Magic School because she was unhappy. Even Marcell flat out did not understand Falin's behavior towards her. Marcell repeatedly judges Falin's behavior before they became friends. Did Marcell realize her errors? Yes. But Marcell is the exception. I agree with your assessment of Shuro's treatment of Falin vs Lyos. But Falin was just as screwed as her brother when it comes to how she was treated growing up and as a young adult.

[@flossilovequest8961]

I really relate to Kabru, he's my favorite dungeon meshi character. I'm neurodivergent, and growing up I really did have a special interest in etiquette- I had books for kids on how to talk to others, how to take a compliment, how to engage in conversations. Actually becoming successful in these things was different, though. I behaved in a way the other kids saw as weird, I couldn't order my own food without getting nervous, but like Kabru, I had to put on that mask, read people and figure out what they wanted in order to successfully navigate situations. I went from being scared of ordering my own food to ordering food for other people. I went from butting heads with my mother to learning what she wanted out of me and pretending to go with it in order to avoid a fight. There's still a bad side to it, though. I've had a lot of identity crises, not knowing who I was under the mask, not knowing how to act when nobody was around to adjust myself to. It's tedious, having to read the vibe and try and keep everyone's spirits up. And it does feel manipulative, like you said. Like I'm manipulating people into liking me so that I get what I want. But it is a survival tactic, and usually the thing I want is to just be accepted. I don't know how to end this, I can't say for sure if it'll get easier or if things will change, but I just wanted to express my own personal experiences and thank you for touching on Kabru in this video. It's very nice to see other people recognizing him as autistic, and it makes me feel seen.

[@ricardom3114]

Thing about Kabru and his mask, his party is already well aware of his faults. Their reaction to their Boss losing the test of wills against Laios is, "oh jeez Kabru's done did it again." Like this absolutely isn't the first time he's boxed himself into awful situations just to get a read on a person. And Falin, she's much better with people than Laios, but she didn't actually have many friends growing up. Marcille was her first (and potentially only) friend in magic school, where the other girls called her weird for skipping class and getting dirt everywhere. I sorta hesitate to call her a savant when her explosion in class was due to her cheating by shoving dirt from an actual dungeon into her assignment. She worked smarter, not harder. And yeah, Falin is absolutely innately good at magic in ways that Marcille is fascinated with, but she also has an understanding of it that neither her or Laios really get (Falin was a poor teacher for Laios when she tried to teach him). Marcille has a wealth of knowledge from all sorts of backgrounds rattling around in her head, but Falin is better at a narrower range of spells. There's also the way they actually use two different schools of magic, Marcille uses elf magic (which is more rigid and consistent) and Falin uses gnome magic (which is less mana intensive). Oh and since it sounds like you're anime only, there's a wealth of bonus material for Dungeon Meshi from the extra pages in the manga volumes, as well as bonus comics from the dvd releases AND extra books like the Adventurer's Bible (which was given an updated release in Japan after the manga's end with even more bonus material). Fun stuff to go through once you're far enough in the series to not mind the spoilers.

[@sableeyedscholar2135]

One thing about the 2 magic systems in the dungeon Meshi world is that they interact with spirits (the basis of a lot of magic) differently. The elf magic system is about tightly controlling the spirits to do exactly what you tell them to, down to the letter. Meanwhile, the gnome system is about treating the spirits with great respect (as you can see from Mr Tansu's attempt at calming the Undine) and gently persuading them to aid you in whatever way the spirit chooses. The quirks of the gnome system would make Falin naturally gifted at it due to her kindness and her demeanor which gets other people to deeply care for her. Simply put, the spirits "like" Falin's personality, which makes her a stronger user of the gnome magic system.

[@Knollock]

IS Falin better at social situations than Laios? She's definitely quieter and softer than he is, but outside of an already intimate group, being quiet and struggling to make connections is a major social hindrance. I think it's easy to see why a group would appreciate someone like Falin as a healer - she's kind and very good at her party role - but I suspect both she and Laios benefitted a lot from being able to back each other up in social situations. Haven't read the manga, but that's my impression from the anime.

[@ricardom3114]

@@Knollock Laios is definitely at a loss without his sis to fix the constant flubs coming out of his mouth. She smooths out the more abrasive bits of his personality. But you're probably right that they really help each other out, but that might just be by the comparison. In the manga Falin was usually doing roles that put her against people more often. Laios is usually an optimist, seeing the best in people, except for his parents and the soldiers that bullied him in the army, but Falin is even more optimistic about her time at home, seeing the good that her parents tried to do, even if they didn't really show it. And later, between leaving the Magic School and entering the Dungeon, when the two worked in the caravan, Laios did manual labor while Falin babysat the kids.

[@blacksesamecandies]

Kabru comes off more like a sociopath than someone with autism. Or he's high functioning and has sociopathy as well. I suppose social cues could be a special interest, but I like to think he's just the complete opposite foil to Laios. Overtly socially aware and constantly thinking about how to manipulate the room in his favor.

[@Mighty.Matcha.]

This is just my own opinion but autistic ppl to me they don’t conform to rules or structures like normal ppl do, they do things their way, in my observation they seem to sense that they work better differently and feel better when they do.Thats why they excel at things bc they work at a pace they designed for themselves, which can significantly improve their skills in whatever they are interested in.if Fallon is autistic,this explains why she excels in magic and often use different smarter ways to work with magic compared to her peers.Her mindset and ways she does things stands out as “ out of the box” one of the reasons Marcille loves her a lot it’s bc she often is able to come up with innovative ideas that seem very genius to marcille.

[@meiruetsukino3578]

As an autistic woman who hyper focuses on my interests while trying to regulate the highs and lows of emotions….thank you for pointing out the reason behind autistic diagnosis boys vs girls! I can be quite the mix of Fallon and Laios lol

[@BugglyDuggly]

Glad you put the disclaimer in there about low and high functioning being seen as somewhat outdated! For anyone curious, my partner is autistic and is a support worker for other autistic adults and some common terminology is high and low support needs! I am absolutely not correcting superdude just wanted to share ig :)

[@Rutabega_NG]

High and low support needs is also imperfect as a term, but I do think it's better. It's a bit less reliant on how much the behavior inconveniences other people for its definition.

[@chlorophyll1415]

And how is it correct? No, better tell me where to find out what is correct, because comments may not be so convenient (for example, any links are blocked by KZbin itself)

[@ma.2089]

Yeah I’m not fond of the “high” or low functioning” moniker. It feels like it overlooks the years of trauma and work it took to be perceived as “normal.” But I understand why it’s used, and why it’s also somewhat outdated.

[@tamasoto5321]

I, personally, use high masking and low masking, for myself. It’s the best way to describe myself.

[@zkkitty2436]

@@chlorophyll1415 you could read the book Neuroqueer Heresies, it spends a lot of time talking about language and how historically language has been used to pathologize autistic people/traits, and the language autistic communities tend to view as more accurate now. It talks about neurodivergence but is mostly rooted in autistic organizing/activism. There's also the book Unmasking Autism which briefly touches on this, but is more about the experience of being autistic in a somewhat intersectional way.

[@burjetee]

I haven't seen anyone mention Karbu being autistic before this, so I cannot express how HAPPY I am that you brought it up. I was diagnosed at 3 and have undergone so much therapy my entire life in order to 'cure' my autism. Multiple types of behavioral, ABA, even physical therapy for sensory issues. While I feel very grateful to have had the resources I did, it's kinda left me in a constant state of masking that I have no idea how to break. Everything I say and do is practiced, I overanalyze everything about other people/situations, I overthink every tiny thing and think about conversations that I wasn't happy with for days, months, sometimes years just to figure out what went wrong and how to avoid that, even if the conversation was relatively normal to most. Kinda embarrassing, but I have a point system in my head to assess conversations after the fact. I relate so much to him not knowing how to react to Liao because I go into fight or flight every time I'm put in a situation I'm unfamiliar with. Every time I've ridden the bus I've almost cried. WHAT ARE THE SOCAIL NORMS FOR THE BUS?? (No seriously someone please help, I've missed my stop so many times.) I also find the scene with Kabru and Laios relatable because.. I just straight up don't know how to talk to other autistic people sometimes. If I've known them for a long time I understand them and how to speak to them, but when meeting a new autistic person there's only like 3 things they could do that I know how to respond to, beyond that I am so lost. It makes me feel very disconnected from the community. Oh also I gotta take like multiple days to recover from the smallest of social interaction. I've missed over half the days of school since 3rd grade so.. really awesome :D

[@arabellasterwerf7980]

I'm so sorry that you went through ABA! You aren't alone and there are many who went through similar experiences to you!🫂

[@RePorpoised]

are there specific moments of being on the bus that you kinda struggle with? Waiting in line, boarding the bus, the pass, getting a seat, eye contact during transit, getting off? Are there specific bits that you fixate more on getting right, like posture, eye contact uhhhh voice? I dunno what to focus on so I'm just asking if theres anything i can offer help for? Everything??? I'm probably not the best to be answering this as i can be kind of blind to social pressures, but I can try my best to answer.

[@RePorpoised]

wait text doesnt give enough context

[@sax87ton]

the best parts of dungeon meshi is the one or two times we get to see Falin and Lios hang out. Because the whole show we see Lios be like, looked down on for his bullshit. Maybe tolerated at best. But then Falin shows up and she like actively enjoys and encourages it. Like they really are just two peas in a pod. It makes total sense 1, why Lios is going so hard to get Falin back and 2, why when we eventually see their backstories that they are completely miserable when they are apart.

[@stopthattimerave]

I'm glad they're such loving siblings. It's hard to be off-putting.

[@redgoldcrown3990]

their similar social struggles and interests probably encouraged them to stick together and mirror one another even more as children, which laid the foundation for them to develop the habit of leaning on each other when they reunited as young adults. they interpret and process the world in part through each other.

[@thedeliveryboy1123]

I haven't been diagnosed but I went into this show, saw Laios, and thought "wow he's passionate about the complexities of monsters, I can relate because I like doing that with people" and then right after the anime hits me with an even more relatable character in Kabru where he loves learning about the people around him and how they interact to form this social world on the island. Great video!!

[@yundorphin]

I'm ready to settle in for a cozy analysis of my current hyperfixation: autistic-coded characters. Kabru really speaks to me as a high masking autistic person. It's so easy to be seen as "manipulative" when you're literally just doing your best to survive.

[@ma.2089]

This this THIS. Not only that, but his ability to analyze ppl reads like an obsession with wanting to understand ppl cuz being autistic makes it so hard to understand ppl. I adore analyzing fictional characters for similar reasons.

[@icicle2450]

I agree. I also feel that since Kabru is someone who experienced a lot of chaos, disorder, and loss in his past, his fixation on social behavior and his resultant masking is a way for him to help himself cope with his loss and trauma. He gains a sense of agency, capability, and control through his ability to read and understand people, and that's why Laios, in part, is so frustrating to him. He recognizes on some level that Laios is someone else who is different and recognizes that difference within himself. But being completely unable to understand or empathize with Laios's monster obsession has prevented him from understanding Laios as a whole, which I find to be one of the most hilarious moments of the entire story. Here is a man who has spent most of his life from childhood to adulthood surviving and taking on the survivor mindset. And yet, in the area which he feels he ought to be most capable in (combat, specifically in a dungeon-delving context), he is completely outdone by someone who he deems completely unsuitable to take on a leadership role. The irony of his fixation versus Laios's fixation comes from how the two interpret order and disorder. For Kabru, monsters (which are responsible for destroying his village and leaving him with the trauma that he has) are chaotic and unreadable beings that have no place in the human world. For Laios, monsters are fascinating and endlessly interesting creatures that have clear and definable rules governing anatomy, taxonomy, ecology, and behavior that one can discover through observation and deduction (unlike humans who have unspoken, illogical social rules and expectations that are hidden from those who cannot access them and only known to those who can). For both characters, they see order and disorder in different places. Kabru can easily make sense of complex social situations even if they involve violence or the threat of violence (see episode 14). Laios can easily understand the anatomy and behavior of different monsters even when faced with unusual or seemingly contradictory information (see episode 22). Their special interests help them make sense of the things that they like. But both are baffled by things that they don't like: Kabru by monsters and Laios by social cues. There's just so much humor to be found in these two characters who are so alike in so many ways and yet are just worlds apart.

[@chlorophyll1415]

Now my desire to be Legitimately Evil (DnD typology of worldviews) has gained more meaning... ≖‿≖

[@drfoto2673]

I'm not diagnosed, and may not even be considered to be autistic, even though I tend to recognize myself in a lot of examples of feelings and behaviors. One of those behaviors is the masking bit and the relation to manipulation. There was a point where I examined myself and came to the conclusion that I was manipulating the people around me in subtle ways, and that this behavior was almost subconscious on my part. The way I managed to make peace with that was to decouple the negativity from the idea of manipulation and make the action itself neutral. The amount of positive or negative value comes from the intent of the actions. In a sense, everyone engages in various forms of manipulation for their own benefits, whether that be physical of the world around them, internal to themselves, or socially on the people around them. People tend to act in a way that will lead to a desired outcome, or to avoid the least desired outcomes. There is no inherent malice in doing so. I'm still hyper anxious in social situations, even though I know I have a fairly good grasp of most social cues etc. it's still always through a layer of translation, I never become actually fluent in how to act socially. So I still spend a lot of energy paying attention to others and trying to act in the way that will have the best outcome for everyone involved, which coincidentally often happens to also be the best outcome for me.

[@yundorphin]

@drfoto2673 True, I guess the word itself could be neutralized. It just carries a lot of negativity connotatively, so it's just hard to de-couple sometimes. But you're right. I probably do need to just accept that I am being manipulative, and it doesn't always have to be a bad thing. (I should probably work on the people pleasing, though. That's probably not all that good for me.)

[@narc_potato7851]

I love that Laios is hyperfixated, rather than being a savant. Savant syndrome is so overused. Also, as someone who has a big special interest in animals and bugs, I loved loved loved the way Laios talked about monsters.

[@lucasagusti686]

"Fun" fact from one of the side-comics of the manga (which so far haven't been getting adapted into the anime): Shuro's real name is actually Toshiro. Laios just misheard him and, when Shuro tried to correct him, Laios just started asking questions about the eastern country Shuro was from. Eventually Laios introduced him to the rest of the party as 'Shuro' and by then it was too late to correct him. Note that the servants do call him 'Master Toshiro', not Shuro.

[@icicle2450]

As both a manga-reader and anime-watcher, I love this fact because it adds so much to Laios's believability as a character. It's clear through implication that in his enthusiasm to make friends with Shuro, he steamrolls through the conversation and unwittingly leaves Shuro with an inaccurate moniker. This small detail exemplifies the dynamics between both Laios and Shuro in a way that makes them both so believably human because this is exactly how real world relationships and interactions work sometimes. A neurodivergent person (heck, even a neurotypical one) may completely mishear someone and the resultant misunderstanding can cause significant ripples of consequence later on. This is such great writing because with such a small detail, the mangaka (Ryōko Kui) is able to establish conflict, character, and relationship all in one small piece of information, a tiny fragment that not only makes sense on its own but also stretches out to connect with everything else we know about Laios, his divergent behavior, Shuro, Eastern continent culture, and the world they both come from. There are all these connections between characters, the story, and our own world. That's good writing right there.

[@chinclucker]

I think it says a lot about his character, and how their relationship would eventually blow up. Even when it comes to something as important as what name you want to be called, Shuro doesn't correct anyone because he was raised in a different culture and wants to be "polite." But it would be more polite to correct them, so they know to call him Toshiro. So his unwillingness to be direct clashes with Laios's ignorance of subtle communication, which was the whole reason he didn't like Laios.

[@i.cs.z]

​@@chinclucker I think the name thing is less Eastern politeness, and more a Toshiro thing, as other eastern tharacters, including the uper(ish) class one don't act like that. I have seen some people say they think Toshiro is on the spectrum too, I don't really see that, but the guy probably has some anxiety disorder going on. I have been there with the name thing.

[@ziiia]

i LOVED this detail so much, i originally thought his party calling him master toshiro was a(nother) manga translation error haha

[@EdgarCastillo-c6j]

If I remember correctly when Shuro's party runs into Laios's party (I actually forgot her name but she took care of him since he was little) called him lord Toshiro and I found it somewhat weird until it hit me that his true name was Toshiro and Shuro is a nickname given to him by someone in the party. Now I know it was Laios.

[@sparklinglys]

Regarding Falin, I feel like it's important to note that the people who like Falin are other people who walk to the beat of their own drum. The school scenes which depict Falin show a much lonelier existence - Marcille being the only one who really takes a notice and interest in her. They then bond over Falin's special interest which makes it easier to Falin to open up to Marcille, and for Marcille - who is also lonely and outcasted - to form an intense attachment. I think the same is true for most of the party - many of whom she met through Laios and his adventuring. Laios tends to be very loud and steamrolls conversations and people without noticing he's doing so, while Falin is much quieter and only lets the excitement out when someone else has signalled it's safe to. I do think socialization plays a huge part in this. Neurodivergent AFAB folks tend to be perceived as "quiet and weird" as we learn fairly early into our lives that standing out is social suicide, and being too excited or too enthusiastic about what we like is going to either alienate people or draw their ire. While neurodivergent AMAB folks are given slightly more of a free pass (boys will be boys, being bold is a desirable trait, etc) and it takes a little longer for those neurodivergent traits to be called out. This obviously isn't true for everyone, but I know as a child any strange thing I did was immediately called out, whereas my peers who were exhibiting the same traits and behaviors were left alone. So I learned how to mask, found more socially acceptable ways to stim, and went through most of elementary and middle school displaying little to no personality. It was only when I met other neurodivergent AFAB friends in highschool that I got comfortable being a complete person, rather than just the mask. Otherwise I think this is spot on. I felt super seen. I've not been diagnosed with autism myself (largely because I can "read social situations", all the other traits have been ignored), but I was diagnosed with ADHD and whether it's the comorbid traits or not, this is exactly how Dungeon Meshi made me feel.

[@DNGNDriver]

When I noticed the dichotomy of reactions to Laios/Falin, my first thought is in the way that autistic girls and women are fetishized, especially on the internet. Off the internet I often see this manifest in the "manic pixie dream girl" trope

[@merobiba413]

yeah i like that Dungeon Meshi shows how some of the traits that Falin and Laios share are seen as 'weird' in Laios but 'cool and different' in Falin. also, the way Falin has over time developed into a big people-pleaser, unable to say no for fear of not being liked. she feels her personality will only be accepted as long as it's a "palatable" kind of weird.

[@missmax2492]

I made this comment to my mom while we were watching the scene with him and Shuro! That the things Shuro can't stand about Laios are just as strong in falin! I said "The only difference between Laios and Falin is that Shuro doesn't like guys" because it's very true

[@merobiba413]

@@missmax2492 so true. there's actually an extra mini comic where they explain to Laios this exact thing, when he wonders why Shuro likes Falin but not him

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

@@merobiba413 That exact same comic shows even as a woman, Shuro is uncomfortable with Laios. Autism acceptance, much like autism itself is a sliding scale whether we like/accept it or not because even in real life, not everyone is a saint and not all autisms are "bearable". If anything, you are being sexist for omitting such details

[@genericname2747]

​@@merobiba413 Drawfee fan

[@alexandergarfield1561]

Has anyone picked up on the detail on Laios mind that he's the only other person that studied Marcille's magic tome, so he's the only other person that has any remote idea of what it looks like inside it in the doppleganger episode. So his memory of details for his party members are actually pretty good.

[@SockieTheSockPuppet]

Especially when the "important" details were the ones he got fundamentally wrong, to the point of hilarity.

[@anicrue]

As someone who's AFAB and aspec, Laios hit me and made me smile, but Falin stole the very breath from my lungs. We don't see much of her, but everything we did I could point to and say "that's me" in ways I just couldn't truthfully do for Laios. Kabru, on the other hand... from his first scene I could tell he was ND, and with every subsequent scene after I continued to get more unnerved. Not because of that fact, but because I *know* him. I've been him, albeit not to the same extent. I know those tricks, I know the mixed struggle and necessity of constantly switching masks and analyzing others to create optimal situations, to profit and survive on the backs of reading and at times manipulating others. I was unnerved because I saw someone like me who from one perspective shucked all my personal rules, but from another was just me under stress. No other story has quite managed to make me confront that "what if" in an impactful way. Dungeon Meshi managed to capture two sides of my reality, and in two completely novel ways to me. When I looked to see if other people were reading the same things I was picking up, it seemed as though no one did. In a way, I'm glad someone else picked up on it, and I will fight anyone who says, to my face, that Kabru isn't aspec.

[@loserchips1112]

By aspec I'm assuming you mean the autistic spectrum? I accidentally read it as asexual spectrum for a sec hehe

[@6youtubeperson]

​@@loserchips1112bro same 💀 I'm an ace so it seemed like they were referencing the asexual spectrum for a sec

[@nikki607]

​@@6youtubepersonnow imagine you're both aspec and ace😂

[@nikki607]

You'd have a doozy over on Tumblr. Seriously, the DunMeshi tag is GOLD

[@digitaldritten]

@@nikki607 i am both autistic and ace and never know immediately which one "aspec" means lol

[@Manu-yw2nu]

After reading the manga and looking back to the fight between Shuro and Laios, Laios’ friendship with the party, specially with Marcille. You can see how they get closer and accepting Laios, and rejoicing the way he is, while still seeing his faults and holding him accountable when he messes up, while he also gets closer to them and starts to understand them better. it’s the kind of support one dreams of.

[@_kalia]

I do wonder what would happen if Falin and Shuro _did_ get together. Like how much of his attraction to her is him liking things in her that he hates in Laios, and how much of it is him seeing her (and her mask) through his cultural lens and projecting onto her. Maybe that's just me and my 'Marcille and Falin are gay, deal with it' ass projecting onto them all, but I look at how Falin reacts to the news that Laios and gang have been eating monsters and wonder just how quickly Shuro would realise 'oh no, behind the mask she's just like _him.'_ Anyway, adored this video and you made me relate _so hard_ to Kabru, sharing this with all and sundry.

[@marocat4749]

Either he would have to deal with his own narrowmindness and apologize to laos , or they break up? Plus laios probably is her comfort blanket

[@nevinmyers1245]

btw i'm pretty sure falin is canonically uninterested in shuro, there's a bonus comic i can't remember but also in chapter 56 pg. 164 there's a relationship chart that shows shuro's love being one-sided and describes falin as "can't say no"

[@ma.2089]

Probably might having something akin to what Shuro and Laios had, with them breaking up amicably.

[@TheLeafcuter]

If I had to guess, it would either shatter Toshiro's idea of Falin that he has in his head, or Falin would receed further into herself and become even more quiet and agreeable because of the societal pressures of being a wife in their time period.

[@wekashipo7507]

It's not like Shuro is ignorant about how Falin is. The reason he fell in love with her in the first place is because he saw her staring at a caterpillar. What annoys Shuro about Laios is his inability to take a hint, not his special interest in monsters. I don't think a long-term marriage to Shuro would be a happy one (maybe with post-episode-17 Shuro, but definitely not pre-episode-17) because she'd be pressured to mask a hell of a lot more and not get to let her guard down like she can at least do around Laios.

[@jemleye]

Falin is also a tragic character overall coz she doesn't have any strong independent desires aside from being with and taking care of her brother. Yeah, she's a magical prodigy, but has she ever exhibited any burning passion towards it? No, she even ran from the magic school to look after her brother. As I see her at this point of the story is that she is floating through life without any strong passions or identity of her own. Her finding herself is gonna be something I hope is explored more.

[@ADerpyReality]

I know you only mentioned her for like 2 seconds but I like how the cat girl actually has catlike traits rather than just being a girl with cat ears/tail like a lot of fantasy.

[@superdude10000]

YES THIS. Izutsumi is cat girl from the cat direction, wheras most arrive at cat girl from girl. There was a version of the script where I got into this, but it literally does not matter in the context of the video, so it had to be dropped. Infinite sadness.

[@kremstoin]

@@superdude10000 cat girl mini video soon?

[@genericname2747]

-The cat girl is actually a girl who acts cat-like (or a cat who acts girl-like) -The only character who has panty shots is the buff dwarf -Chilchuck is a 29 year old half-foot and not a little girl who is secretly a god/dragon. -No perverts This is best anime

[@jewfronium5723]

The no perverts thing is super refreshing!!! I love how it doesnt do any of the creepy tropes most anime do. ​@genericname2747

[@genericname2747]

@@jewfronium5723 Right?? I'm so glad I can enjoy this without dying inside

[@HappyBirddi]

I'm also a high-functioning autistic and there were so many times that I just related to Laios, one of my favorite moments being the group enjoying the sorbet and Laios making this comment about "if Falin hadn't been eaten we wouldn’t be eating sorbet right now!" and everyone reacts to that as "dude wtf?! Thats horrible!". That moment was just so painfully relatable for me and I loved it so much. What Laios was trying to say was something along the lines of "hey guys I know Falin got eaten but it's not all bad! We made sorbet!", and it makes sense to him but it just comes out to everyone else as "wtf?!". Like, for me I get these random thought bubbles that make perfect sense to me but to everyone else it can come off as weird or out-of-pocket. That scene with Laios and Shuro too really hits hard for me too, I've been there many times as a kid and even as an adult where I've annoyed people but no one said anything directly to my face, because picking up on subtle cues is a challenge for me. I actually didn't know I was autistic until I was in my 20s, so until then I struggled with people. Even now I'm still sort of trying to cope and relearn social cues. The author of the Delicious in Dungeon manga also made a short comic that depicted his own experiences as being an autistic man in Japanese society and he depicts social conversations like one of those Dance Dance Revolution games where you have to hit the right beats at the right time. It's a really interesting comic to read

[@jamiesjammies8146]

dude when i read the scene in the manga of laios and shuro fighting i was like “damn yeah.. that’s happened to me before” but when i SAW and HEARD it happen on screen it really left me with a bad feeling in my chest and stomach. i really have experienced very similar situations with people i genuinely thought were my best friends. it hit closer to home seeing it play out on the screen. even though i did feel the connection when reading it, watching it had a bigger impact on me.

[@hyobroschae]

Frrr i think i started tearing up while watching it

[@zacharynguyen7286]

Hope everyone is doing good. ❤️

[@MakiPcr]

Just _hearing_ about it makes me want to cry. It's too real man

[@DarktheEagle]

For me, it hit close to home, but in an empowering way. When it's happened to me, I just retreated inward and accepted that my worst fear of someone I love secretly hating me came true. But Laios... He fought back. He defended himself. He basically said "Fuck your subtlety, that shit doesn't work for me!" And I _wish_ I could have done that at the time...

[@alexbrave9634]

Thank youuu soooo much for being empathetic towards Kabru and understanding his character, cause damn, I've seen a lot of people hating him. I relate to him immensely so seeing people describe him as just a shady manipulator is upsetting, they are missing all the nuance. When interacting with others I strive for harmony, I want everybody to feel happy and comfortable which requires smiles and soft expressions (when in reality I would prefer to have a "stern" or "unemotional face" aka my default) I don't view my "performance" as a manipulation tactic but as a way to not be ostracized for being weird. Without spoiling the manga there is a particular scene where Kabru's mask slips and he describes what he ACTUALLY wants, and it's really sweet, and earnest, and kind of embarrassing! And I think that humanises him a lot (not that I didn't view him as human before but I think for people who don't get him it's an eye-opening scene) Anyway, great video!! Very empathetic and thoughtful!! You have a really good understanding of the characters and I'm super happy I found your video!! Also, Ryoko Kui is a legend for including different types of autistic people in her work!!!

[@CM-fs1ps]

Falin is also very much a people pleaser kind of autistic girl. Which is that early social conditioning you talked about for sure. I don't know if you've read the manga, but Laios talks about how he couldn't stand the way other people treated Falin when they were kids while she simply put up with it. As an autistic afab person I see a lot of myself in Falin, and in Laios. Falin being the side of me that represses everything I want to do and say and feel to please others, and Laios being the side of me that feels anger at the injustice of it all. Also re: Kabru I hadn't considered him autistic but I do think that's a valid read. My friends with OCD tend to relate to him the most so we make jokes that Kabru and Laios are "the two genders" (ocd and autism), but of course both conditions can exist at the same time in one person. I just thought I'd bring up the plausible OCD. Anyways, thank you for this video I enjoyed it very much. This is the first video I've ever seen of yours and it's really nice to hear another autistic person getting so excited and emotional over Laios.

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

A little theory on Kabru and "manipulative tactics": The reason this behavior seems/is manipulative is because to an autistic person not innately privy to the rules of social interaction, any use of those rules, behaviors etc. is unnatural or a mask. You don't really use them in the semi-conscious way most do, almost all of it is a conscious decision. So even to Kabru himself, he might just end up feeling like he has to use certain behaviors because he knows it will help him get out of situations AND because he had to learn these things since they didn't come naturally. Thus it make him always feel like "I'm doing a thing to elicit the proper response", like a guilt for manipulating someone by saying "I'm real busy" when he's not and justify to himself. The way Kabru did it might seem more unsavory to some, but he is ultimately trying to achieve the same thing Falin wants: pleasing people and (maybe) get something out of it without making people think badly of them

[@LuwdaLivraria]

I LOVE DUNGEON MESHIIIIII! I loved this video! Thanks for it! I'm a late diagnosed autistic woman, who struggled with masking my entire life. It wasn't until this very year i would get ny diagnosis and the answer to my "why can't I ever understand people no matter how hard I try?" Not to speak too much on myself, but I love people. I want to commune with them, talk to them, connect with them. But it's like we're speaking two different languages, even when its the same one. I've been making a conscious effort to understand people as long as I can remember. And it is exhausting. Which is why Kabru means so much to me. It's more than his success. To me, it's how some of his behaviors are still so misunderstood by his compatriots-much like Laios. There are moments where the structure Kabru knows so well is incongruent- and it becomes clear that his behavior is studied, as opposed to natural. Kabru is autistic AS FUCK. And he's having a hard time! But a big part of Dungeon Meshi to me is characters coming to terms with unsustainable behaviors and attempting healthier and more sincere approached to their emotions and physical needs. This, of course, includes Kabru. I see a lot of myself in him. So, it honestly hurts a bit to see him try so hard. I cant help but wish he would reel it in, for himself. I can't imagine how exhausted Kabru must be. And, hey, to bring it to another point, I think Laios is good for Kabru on this aspect. Sure, he's awkard as fuck and has no idea, but he's still a good guy who's loved by his friends. Kabru has yet to realise his innate value beyond his amazing communication skills, abilities to bring people in and even his morals. On the other hand, the little guy I relate to the most, Laios. He's overexcited. He's eager. He's a crazy little man. And dear god do I relate to him on a fun level. Where Kabru speaks to my struggle, Laios speaks to my more open self. Which is why i love them both so, so, so much (I might explode if you dont like them and u really think about it oops) But Laios lets me really go to town. I'm of the hopes this will yet come for Kabru. Although I LOVE when we see his more neutral expressions and calculating practices (my man was in hid ELEMENT talking about human organ placing) Laios is loving and open about his adoration for monsters. He kinda validates my excitement, my incomprehensive love, my annoying infinite energy. He's the me I'm scared people won't like. But so is Kabru. I think it's clear at some points-the food he doesn't want to eat but ends up having to gulp it down because, if he said anything, he'd be weird, he would be dissonant with the character he's built. The knowledge of his hyperfixation (humans!!!!) being useful, which grants him right to know as much as he wants-but not to over share and ramble, so he reels it in. Anyway. My bad for saying so much. This was sn important video to me. I loved it.

[@reniesulaweyo4383]

These are all completely correct takes and I want to add another possible dimension to read: Shuro can also be read as autistic. He comes from a high context society as you said and that can have the advantage of clearer societal rules, since even neurotypicals need it written out. He can cling to the rules in a way because a lot of interactions are highly scripted, making formal social interaction easier. Some other reasons that are manga only or spoilery: - has an interest in bugs - it's mentioned in the manga with the visual of Falin looking at the caterpillar - extremely lonely as a child, no friends - has a lot of trouble expressing any emotions - his retainers are all baffled when he expresses his thanks that they came and get emotional over it At the very least he has social awkwardness down because he clung to social rules all his life. His attempted courtship of Falin is the one time he is breaking the expectations. Another reason for liking Falin can be that he saw himself reflected in it. (Also literally "even if I was a worm Falin would love me") Of course, things like trauma, lack of feeling loved or societal pressures can also explain these, but it can also be autism in there.

[@clariss-39]

Yes!! I read a great post about it somewhere on Tumblr. And Shuro (Toshiro) being autidtic adds YET ANOTHER layer to his relationship with Laois. Toshiro envies him. Just a little bit. That Laios can be so openly tactless and weird and honest. And the party still respects him to a degree. Toshiro can't do that. He will lose all his status back at home and the respect of his retainers and servants. He had to keep up the mask and stick to the rules. Sometimes just seeing someone else disregard it all can be a little painful.

[@reniesulaweyo4383]

@@clariss-39 yes!!!

[@ma.2089]

The last one could just be cuz of the culture he was raised in. Ppl have said that Toshiro is a commentary on Japanese culture and how difficult it is to be ASD, esp in Japan, and how being Japanese culture actively makes things worse for everyone cuz of the restrictions. I think this is emphasized by the fact that he has to just accept the open affair his father is having and it’s just normalized. He’s not allowed to express himself, so seeing the siblings so unabashedly themselves was so out there. I don’t see him as autistic, mainly cuz I know that there are neurotypicals who have been “jealous” of neurodivergent ppl. So the jealousy could stem from multiple things.

[@clariss-39]

Multiple interpretations and i love every single one tbh.

[@ma.2089]

That’s not to say I dislike the take! If anything, it means it’s an issue that can sprout up anywhere and it would be good if we could be generally more empathetic

[@sigurd7008]

The section on Kabru honestly made me feel so seen- From what I've seen as an anime only fan he's one of my favourite characters because I relate to him a whole lot. I recently realized that the broad topic of communication is sort of a special interest for me and because of that I've come to understand a lot of the underlying 'rules' of socializing. I mask in quite a smilar way to Kabru and I've always held the worry that I'm manipulating people around me (though, to be clear I refuse to actually manipulate folks for my own gain; honesty of intent is the absolute most important thing to me). And similar to Kabru interacting with Laios, I struggle a lot with interacting with other autistic folks who don't socially mask so well- Never really understood why but I get it more now. So yeah I just wanted to thank you for the way you approached his analysis, felt super validating.

[@ItsPronouncedQ]

I would definitely say that the way girls are actively socialized to be "feminine" somewhat helps autistic girls. You're given pretty clearly defined expectations about how you should sit, speak, stand, and so forth. You're also explicitly reprimanded by older females when you don't conform to these expectations. It's restrictive as hell, but it's still guidelines that you can follow. Basically, the demands of being ladylike force you to develop your mask pretty early in life. Also, autistic tendencies like aversion to social situations and eye contact avoidance can be read in women as demureness and that can be appealing to some people (like Shuro). For guys, it seems like the nuances of masculinity are expected to be absorbed more intuitively. Guys are expected to be more assertive and outspoken than women, but if you aren't assertive or outspoken in the right kind of way, you can quickly be labeled as obnoxious or pushy or weird. Of course, if you're an autistic male, you likely won't immediately pick up that people are viewing you this way. Especially since guys are known to express camaraderie by casually messing with each other, it could be very difficult to differentiate playful ribbing from actual disdain. So I think that's a big reason for the differences between Falin and Laios. Also, Falin being a healer who seeks to understand spirits helps reaffirm her femininity, which allows people to more easily sympathize for her. Laios having an encyclopedic knowledge of monsters and wanting to eat them doesn't really reaffirm his masculinity.

[@proxy90909]

I mean... Knowing how to hunt monsters like a master of hes craft and literally eating monsters is like peak "alpha male" type stuff you literal *top of the foodchain* behaviour I believe its the way he expresses this thats seen as weird or uncanny. Also it doesn't really help him that the preconceived notions of masculine behaviour stop being seen as positive if pushed to far. Being assertive and confident is seen as a great trait but always looking for a fight at the slightest disagreement and being stuborn about it instantly would be seen as dangerous. Its really the missed nuances that paint hes behaviour. If he went "I'll kill and eat each and everyone of this bastards until I get back my sister!" People on the outside might think hes a baddass but those around him (or in hes "danger zone") will think hes a psyco to be avoided. But if he cheerfully goes "I am just curious to know what it tastes like! 😀" Hes neither intimidatingly manly nor "normal" so hes just "weird". Becoming the greatest dungeon explorer/monster hunter that makes the longest trips sounds badass becoming the greatest cook of monsters sounds weird af even tho its demands the same procedure in practice

[@keep_it_in_a_hidden_place]

A lot of autistic men such as myself feel like we can't fit into ideas of masculinity most of the time, but other times our bluntness kind of affirms it

[@SpeakerTea]

Watching this made me just realize something about myself, I'll just sit in the corner and let it sink in for a while.

[@funwari_tsukune]

Being Japanese (but growing up in USA), I really really appreciate you explaining how Shuro (Toshiro) felt, how he was on his edge from not eating, worrying about his love, and his stance from a cultural stand point. I believe all JP audience could see and emphasize with Shuro because we know and understand the cultural differences (and is aware that this is not the norm in other parts of the world, as Ryoko Kui sensei makes it a point by making Mickbell say how scary it is that Shuro just proposed instead of getting friendly first). So for me it was almost sad to see alot of reactions from other parts of the world about Shuro was that they just seem to hate on Shuro for not being forth coming, and how he was an asshole. Although I admit he could've done better, I don't think he is an asshole. And also, I believe Shuro didn't really hate Laios. Sometimes annoyed, yes, but not hate. He himself admits that he was envious of Laios, and I think people forget that for Shuro too, Laios was the first friend he has made on the island, and considering he is young lord or something in his home country, Laios might be his first real friend he has ever had (that has no hierarchal relationship). He was with all those very capable ninja clan people, if he really hated Laios and did not want to be in his party he could've just said no and went with his clan. Or even just leave the island! So thank you for shedding more light on how it must've been for Shuro too, that it isn't just "oh he is an asshole."

[@themushroominside6540]

Toshiro also was literally starving, for potentially days in fact, all in a manic effort to find Falin. Hanger is very much a real thing, it causes you to do thing you wouldn't normally do and Toshiro was innately a more timid/reserved person even compared to Eastern tall-man norms. Once he finally ate something, his demeanor changed drastically opting to suck up and leave the dungeon to get better prepared, actually taking Liaos's recommendations/arguments seriously, It goes to show just how important nutrition is to the whole of dungeon meshi which is awesome writing. Toshiro is a great representation of a neurotypical persons response to Autisitic individuals, he has his flaws but he is still a person whose actions weren't unrealistic but Nuanced.

[@redgoldcrown3990]

unless and until we get evidence to the contrary, I like to think that Shuro likes Laios for the same reasons he loves Falin - one being that they're so uniquely, genuinely, wholeheartedly passionate and loving. Laios and his social behavior just wear on Shuro, so he can't stand Laios's company in large doses - I think that abrasion colors many of their interactions BECAUSE Shuro bottles it up so much and forces himself to keep interacting with Laios when he's past his limit. and then he was trying to court Falin and Laios was actively getting in the way from his perspective. so... yeah, I want to think that if both of them can work on meshing better together socially, they might be able to be friends again.

[@PeachyMcPeachface]

(I'm ASD) You talked about high/low functioning and how it was your change in environment that created the shift to high functioning. Not trying to argue, feel free to identify how you want, but I think that is a good indicator that high/low functioning doesn't define the person, but rather the environment. It blames the individual for their behavior rather than those causing the problem. I hadn't thought about that before. I use "low/high support needs" instead of "high/low functioning" and I could never explain why it felt better, so thank you for sharing your story. Video is really well done, I agree with all of your points. One extra thing on Kabru, his attack on [redacted for spoiler reasons] that ended up doing absolutely nothing was very telling imo of his rigid thinking. He focuses on the human aspect, going for vital organs and is confused why it didn't work. I LOVE the attention to detail in this show, the world building, and of course, the representation

[@supremeoverlord0]

THANK YOU FOR THIS!!! As a fellow Kabru-type autistic- a Psychology major, someone who had an intense interest in theater and acting as a child (and was quite good at it too- scored all sorts of main roles because I loved partaking in the process of shifting into another person entirely 😅), constructed entire written documents about conversation and conversational prompts for my own "study guide," etc... Linguistics, anthropology, you name it- as soon as I meet someone, one of the first things I want to do is learn everything about how they tick as a result of their biological and sociocultural influences. So I've absolutely stuck by my belief that Kabru is just as apparently autistic as Laios appears, just as a different flavor. And I love to see you discuss the big dirty "M" word (manipulation) and how it relates to Kabru simply seeing the social "threads" and knowing how to pull them. People like to demonize manipulation as a concept completely, as though joking in a high pressure situation to ease tension, giving someone who's sad a gift, or making your appearance neater in a professional environment aren't all means of manipulating people's behavior to be more positive and beneficial to you that exist and are commonplace and even expected. The "Kabru-s" just see even more of those threads that they've grabbed for in a means to survive, so rather than condeming the mere idea of manipulation, although it can be messy to consider, isn't it telling about Kabru's behavior, at least, that he largely uses it for altruistic means? He wants to prevent another Utaya, he wants to keep his party safe, advocate for humanity's wellbeing, and reduce racial stigma. And yet, I've seen multiple people overlook Kabru's well-meaning goals specifically because his internal commentary and ways of processing those around him is disconcerting to them- they can't look at the big picture of what he desires as a person. And that's personally something that I've experienced multiple times throughout my life, a Kabru-ified version of Episode 17's conflict. People asking me why I seem like I'm just saying what they want to hear, why I don't cry with them when I comfort them, why I plan out ways to solve their issues instead of just *being* there for them, and some people stabbing a finger into my chest and calling me manipulative, point blank. Each time, it stings, because you just see yourself as someone trying to do right by others, even if your sense of empathy is just inherently out of whack. But then you're reminded that your best efforts to have others feel better or cared for truly may just not resonate with the majority at times. Kabru *could* have been someone cold who sees his party and other people as a tool, but the fact that he isn't is so, so important. The care he exercises towards his fellow man may not be typical emotional displays of affection, but it's there regardless as he considers the importance of people around him, and that low-empathy love is something that I want to see more in positive autistic portrayals in media. Thank you for this video, as an autistic female, the section on Falin is so, so true, and you did a good job articulating it. It's similar thoughts I've had about her. Take care!

[@Khotetsu]

Something else that people seem to forget about Kabru is that his biggest concern about Laios is that he believes that Laios either doesn't care about humans or cares so much more about monsters that Laios gaining control of the dungeon would prove a major threat to the people living above it and lead to another massacre like the one he lived through. He may be going about it more analytically than emotionally like some people would (aka neurotypical people), but at the end of the day, he's got the same mindset as the average hero - judging people's character and the potential harm "villains" could do.

[@budgetcommander4849]

I feel like everyone is brushing over him killing a man who was on his knees? He even left his body in the water, presumably never to be recovered.

[@proxy90909]

I believe I can help with why is *MANIPULATION* seen in such a negative light even with the best of intentions: its about taking advantage of people. We do it all the time but its for an intended and commonly agreed purpose which being that you experience this a bit more from the "Kabru-point of view" you might have missed. We dress well for a job, we cheer up the sad and we offer solutions to problems instead of crying with people. But why? When you look for a job you are adviced to NOT be yourself, to dress speak and act like what they WANT from you because it's the test to see if you can fake that version of yourself at work. The interviewer/company does not care about the "real you" they want the fake you and they expect you to maintain that fake you for 8hr a day. It is understood by both parties that it doesnt matter who you ARE on your own but who you can pretend to be for 8hr so manipulating the perception of the interviewer is an expected and sought after ability for getting the job. You both want something from one another you manipulate for a job they manipulate for a worker Cheering people who are sad with gifts, food, compliments is something done out of the understanding that the sad person does NOT want to continue being sad, you don't manipulate people unto sadness you do it out of it because you both want the sadness to be no more, thus its acceptable. When you offer solutions.... I've got nothing as a man its my average train of thought and if random internet anecdotes with no research backing are to be believed its the average male response to seek a solution to problems, as we dont usually share issues unless we want help in solving them, the unsolvable goes silent... Until you join statistics as no solution was clear. On the other hand if you are a woman take it for what you will from the same "source" people expect you to just "be there for them" so if you offer solutions even to a guy their expectations of you were different "they went to a woman for you to empatize" and you gave them a dudes response of: you can do a) or b) that should help solve the issue. As being told an issue in the first place is held in equal footing to requesting solutions, otherwise "why am I supposed to do with this info?" Might flood your mind. If you find yourself saying what others want to hear and steering the emotions of the other person when their emotional state is not perceived by themselves to be negative thats when they get angry, thats when you are manipulative: you want to change my mind on something when I just wanted to talk to you. The average conversation is not an interview. We do not want things from each other. Its not cheering someone up. I did not agree for you to change my mood because I dislike the one I am in. I did not request a solution to a trivial concern, you sharing one makes me believe you doubt my inteligence. We manipulate to get things from people, if you manipulate in "casual" settings they believe you want something from them and unlike a job interview they didnt agree to take advantage of each other in that case only you are getting something from them and thus they are loosing something. So its not appreciated. To change a mood you must both agree to it. You can both fake who you are as long as you agree you have no interest in you "real" selves, but most people don't want you to say what they want to hear they want to know the "real" you. If you believe the "real you" would be "suboptimal" for the interaction then thats reason in itself to not want to interact with you as you yourself assessed the "real you" is incompatible with them

[@BlazeStorm]

"What Shuro finds annoying in Laos, he loves in Falin" woahhh that's a big revelation, hope it gets explored in S2

[@Morvelaira]

As a woman of 40 years who has long suspected she falls under that label of "lost autistic girl", I knew episode 17 was dense, and spectacular and IMPORTANT instantly on watching it. I doubt I could have articulated to my neurotypical husband all of those layers so well or clearly. So thank you for that. And while I know there's a lot more types of autist than the three you covered, I think - as a side note - I'm a Kaberu type that always masked like a Falin type... and I seem to be raising a daughter that is a Laios type. I fear for her once she starts kindergarden here soon in the fall. Again, great video, and thank you for this breakdown that seems to be at least a little illuminating for the neurotypicals in my life.

[@elsreybebee]

I was also a Laios type girl when i was young until i turned "shy" started masking, I've been realising in my late teens I'm probably on the spectrum but none of my close relatives take it seriously and laugh at me for even suggesting i might be autistic. Not that im qualified to give parenting advice, but just being supportive is often more than enough, and you're probably doing great!

[@AshleyoftheSwiftspear-pb8cs]

So, this is coming from a Aspec gal who’s Laois type. You’ve got this. Your kid’s got this. You’re both gonna turn out great. Might come off strange coming from a stranger on the internet lol.

[@DawnAfternoon]

Hey morv! Saw you from Drak's video all the way back in Heavensward and enjoyed your antics! Hope you still have a good time!

[@chrisschultz8598]

I really didn't think much of Dungeon Meshi until I saw this. Good analysis and good exposition. And, I learned a lot about autism. As you say, we are on a spectrum. But on the spectrum of plot analysis and compassionate explanation of character motivation, you are way ahead of me.

[@RaccoonsTrashVault]

On the subject of Falin, she dud get bullied in school for being tardy, and having dirty clothes. I have a feeling she gained her popularity because her special interest happened ti be useful, which...Sadly happens a lot, eapecially if you're an autistic femme. Also ita mentioned that Shuro proposed to her out of the blue, implying that they weren't even courting each other. Another reflection of cultural clashing. Loved your reading of Kabru, 100/10!

[@TalkingSoup]

i'm so, so, so glad someone made a video about this, because we all know and love laios, but i feel like so few people talk about how this show is DIVERSE in its representation of neurodivergence. there's other characters who are ASD and i feel like there's also characters on the ADHD spectrum as well. this show is just a beautiful hotpot of neurodivergence and i'm so glad people are talking about that facet! ALSO you could make the argument that Izutsumi represents yet another facet of neurodivergence. She's got sensory issues, she's abrasive and can be tactless and rude, she's an extremely picky eater, she likes routines, she's got body-image issues, and she's not a huge fan of physical contact. And sure, many of those traits are just "cat," but if you had to pick an animal to represent autism, it would be a cat. I might be stretching here, but I feel like with how much intentionality Ryoko Kui had with the neurodivergence in this series, it can't be an accident.

[@ensuverna]

"I've had this happen to me multiple times" Same, friend. Same. That episode made me cry. Thanks for this.

[@WaffelWuffel]

Thank you for this video, I live in a country where psychological disorders are not looked into almost at all (especially if you are not living in the big cities) so I discovered more new things through this video. I always suspected that I might be on the spectrum, but whenever I tried talking about it to my family, they got all angry and dismissive (autism is like a plague or something in my country) so I was always honestly afraid to get a diagnose, I dont want my family to hate me. So videos like this make me feel accepted in a way.

[@OctopusOwl]

Thank you for highlighting Kaburu and Fallin’s autism too, cus their version of dealing with the non autistic world is so different from the usual representation.

[@ashtondawnpng]

This episode hits HARD friend. My experience with autism has been a bit closer to Kabru, but I didn't know that was even an option! It's one of those things where you think you're an imposter for being that way, even though everything else tells you you aren't. As an afab I went pretty much all of my childhood not knowing or understanding why I had such a hard time with keeping friends, the way that they would seemingly randomly say they have hated me despite not telling me until they got sick of me hanging around. I see a lot of myself in Laios, Kabru and Fallin. I love the way Dungeon Meshi doesn't shy away from these things, and doesn't shy away from the differences between the characters and the small ways they show care for each other.

[@thewingedporpoise]

I really love Kabru, he's certainly my favorite character in Dungeon Meshi. I don't think I would describe him as manipulative, I think he only really would be described as manipulative in the way that autistic people conforming to society are described negatively. Manipulative for telling white lies or acting like you like someone in a formal setting, blunt for being honest and straightforward, naive for being optimistic. He's not an angel, but like, he tends to be most using his masks in situations where it's expected. Fighting literal murderers in a place where they can't really die, doing politicking, trying to get an understanding of a possibly dangerous group of adventurers. I think with the Shuro thing, many of us have that fear because it's happened, being suddenly rejected even though you thought everything was good. I also really like how the line "You don't talk, you don't eat, why do you even have a mouth?" is both a sick burn and also a good showing of Shuro's character. When he's searching, he doesn't eat or rest, recklessly. And that act might be seen as noble or romantic, but it's stupid because it won't do as much or necessarily get what you want. A great metaphor. I love Falin's autism, she is somewhat perceived differently due to her gender. But what also matters I think is her incredible magic support skills, and her place in the party. Being a leader is difficult, and it means Laios is always in the spotlight, which really doesn't help him.

[@yiphihi]

Dunmeshi makes me SOOOO HAPPYY!!!!!! I love Laios and Falin so much!!!! I feel so represented by them both. I mask by going absolutely quiet and surpressing everything. Like Falin. And at home I’m Laios :D The Shuro and Laios fighting scene made me feel frustrated(it also almost made me cry,,,) because that’s literally my experience with society summed up. And I didn’t expect that whole lore and representation at all. At first I started reading dunmeshi just because I got a video on my recommended about the character design of dunmeshi characters and thought that it may be useful for me to read cuz I’m currently studying stuff about character design. So that sudden waterfall of emotions, lore and everything else left me in shock. I’m really thankful for Ryoko Kui for making Dungeon Meshi!!!!

[@AnarchicCrow]

"A third, secret autistic character" FALEN FALEN FALEN FALEN I KNEW IT WAS GONNA BE FALEN! I think they portrayed it really well in the siblings, Liaos being a typical, extroverted and outgoing boy with autism and Falen having a more quiet and "palatable" kind of autism, which so many girls have due to societal pressues. As much as Shuro complains about Laios' autistic traits, Falen has many of them too, they're just more "palatable" to him because she's quiet and a bit shy. Laios - Unmasked and stereotypical autism (not in a damaging way) Kabru - High masking Falen - Girl autism

[@caitlunsford2440]

While watching this video I realized that Laios only ever fitting in on the island/in the dungeon directly parallels my realization that I feel I only fit in in musician’s circles. Wow. I relate *so hard* to Kabru’s masking too, and of course to Laios’s confrontation with Shuro - didn’t realize until watching this how closely that mirrored a certain situation in my life. The more I think about Dungeon Meshi the more I love it. We’re so lucky to have art like this!!!!!!

[@williamgeorge2580]

The Laios/ Shuro fight was pretty heart-breaking stuff even if you're not in the spectrum.

[@chikirin9349]

Yeah I don't think I'm neurodivergent and I had to pause and call Shiro out for expecting people to understand your cultural cues, while YOU'RE the outsider visiting another country is just such stupid and antisocial behavior.

[@appletart7262]

@@chikirin9349 Laois’ ignorance in mispronouncing Toshiro’s name and then introducing him as that multiple times over to other people is a point of contention for him, among the other tendencies he shuns him for that I understand people getting upset over. But acting as if Laois is solely the one wronged here is just dumb because the point is that they’re *both* unable to communicate properly, Laois because of his autistic behavior and Toshiro because of the social hierarchy and position of power he was raised in. And just because Laois didn’t mean to offend by spreading that mispronunciation of Toshiro’s name, doesn’t mean he’s not at fault for it. It’s still a microaggression. Laois being autistic doesn’t stop him from being ignorant and white.

[@annepandesal]

this scene was so visceral to me because i know firsthand how both of them feel ough. the intersecting perspectives and struggles really came through in an impactful way for this scene and im glad to see appreciation of it !! also thanks for acknowledging us tumblr peeps 🙌

[@MylesJacobSwie]

My partner is autistic and has really opened my eyes to the world of autism. Watching this together, they also felt extremely connected to the scene of Laios and Shuro fighting. They had told me before how these things had happened to them, but through Dungeon Meshi there was a way for me to see exactly the kind of experience they had to go through. It's a fantastic piece of media that does representation in such a healthy way. No one is telling us these characters are autistic or "bad" for their behaviors. It just shows us them, as normal people, and lets us experience what they have to go through in their own struggles! Very happy with the show, and great video discussing all of it.

[@TinyCatSpoons]

“Given her medical condition…” I have never laughed so hard in my life 😂

[@eternalelune2858]

Kabru was such devastating rep. Felt so seen, in a deer in spotlights way 💀 [spoilers below] (but more than that, the scene where the lion asks laios about his hatred towards humanity was my personal (horrified) hard hitting representation moment)

[@kjarakravik4837]

Can definitely relate to Kabru, love him, but you might wanna give people a spoiler warning? Put some space between the first thing you said and the spoiler?

[@korrochime2432]

That fucking scene was devastating. It truly was one of theeee single worst recognition of the self via the other moments I've had in media

[@maxspecs]

Humans can absolutely suck! But honestly, animals can also suck just as bad, it’s simply harder to read them. Not all of them are wired the same way…

[@merobiba413]

yeaaah that moment hit hard for me. when things are going well, i really like people. but there are definitely times when i've hated humanity and not wanted to be around humans at all.

[@SemiSubconsciousSaboteur]

I was a Laios for much of my childhood. I had plenty of friends and the and was given more grace for a lot of my off-putting traits because everyone is shaky in elementary school. I developed into a Kabru after dealing with intense bullying in middle school. I learned to shut up, force my RBF into a smile, and observe people before I make myself vulnerable (the problem is, I rarely open up even after years of knowing people and that isn't conducive to cultivating sincere relationships with others) I often feel like a bad person because of how much script and calculation goes into my social interactions but it's better than people assuming I'm just an asshole.

[@nitebreak]

when laois found out that he never liked him i cried. That’s one of my number one fears too. People pretending to tolerate me and me being unable to pick up on it due to being autistic,

[@reeseoutburst4157]

13:45 I found this really interesting because it was an opposite experience for me. It may be the intersection between my neurodivergent identity and my blackness, but people tend to assume I’m mad or annoyed when I don’t smile slightly. During COVID-19 I had to learn how to emote with only my eyes and forehead. I was also working a service job at the time.

[@superdude10000]

AH! Intersectionality!!! True, I was operating under a lot of privilege at that job. Outside of being white, I had also worked there for 4 years at that point, so I had moved up the latter enough that I was in charge of a decent bit of the "floor" during the peak hours (it was a dining hall). Being a boss to people allowed me a certain level of authority such that I wasn't questioned. Didn't think about how that factored into the equation. As always, privilege is hard to spot when you're the benefactor. Thanks for pointing that out!

[@Rutabega_NG]

Yes, this is accurate. I had to smile with my eyes too. Pre-covid I got to the point where I trained my mouth so that even when my jaw is slack the corners are at least level if not slightly upturned. Could definitely get deeper into this, but that's a different discussion.

[@Arenuphis]

Oh yeah I've been getting pestered by my dad about looking angry most of my childhood whenever I have a neutral face

[@emma7933]

I'm an autistic woman who was working in customer service during COVID and i also had the "wait how tf do i indicate i am smiling using only my eyes" experience because i was constantly getting complaints to my boss that i was "rude and unfriendly" when i wore my mask.

[@based980]

N

[@ZekoNeko12]

When my partner and I were watching dunmeshi, we joked about Laois being autistic. But then the fight scene between laios and shuro happened, and we were just like, "Oh. Oh no, that hit home" because we're both neurodivergent. He's autistic but his autism is respected, and it was so awesome. Falin really scratched my itch for autistic women in media, and I really want more. When I see good representation in media, I often wonder if the creator is a part of that community; especially with Falin.

[@pokemonsliver]

Fantastic video. What I really like about reading Laious as autistic is how often his autism traits are used to help the party just as much if not more so than be a mere joke. His hyper fixation often allows him to identify monsters and their traits before the party is ever gets into extreme danger. It shows how in the right environment an autistic person's trait can shine. I'm also grateful for Dungeon Meshi's positive representation because, as said in the video, that's a very easy thing to find. So much so that I've actually been writing a book with an autistic protagonist who I can personally relate to. As for characters I've claimed, as I am autistic too, there's Chongyun from Genshin Impact. His high sensitivities to certain stimuli and tendency to take things at face value resonates with me. Plus there was an event where he said he no longer things of these traits of his as a bad thing and I felt so vindicated when I heard that.

[@pocketproductions7206]

Another thing I’d like to add from my autistic experience is that to me lios and kabru also represented a pipeline of autistic burnout to me, for most of my life I had a more savant-esc level of social skills because I was able to hyper mask in any situation, but after going to therapy it was brought to my attention that all my other problems such as depression and anxiety were being caused due to an EXTREME level of autistic burnout, I’m better now and have a better support system and now I ALLOW myself to fall into the more lios camp of being more open, being more monotone and letting my interests take over my life in a good way, I went from 100% mask to the point I didn’t even realise I was doing it because it was so natural for me to just servant all my problems away, so seeing the two of them together is much harder hitting for me than most

[@SanjiTyloxion]

I really found myself attached to Kabru and his experiences as well cuz (minus the whole village stuff) it is pretty similar to my own experience and reading the manga. Similarly, I can relate more to Kabru than Laios. And I really found it fine when Kabru had a moment of just going over everyone in the touden party, just like how Laios goes into monster trivia. With no major spoilers. I continued to like Kabru throughout in the manga even if I've seen others not like him cuz they think he's manipulative even though I don't super see it that way. I always have that feeling of people hating me in secret as well, but since I've moved around so much growing up I've mostly avoided people telling me they actually do hate me in big reveal moments. Mainly cuz once I'm out of one environment in move into adapting to a new one. But it has happened. Twice it actually extended to like semi long bullying episodes where someone I thought of as a friend suddenly started treating me like shit or bullying me. And the first time I practically put up with it till I left, bit regretfully, the next time it happened I must admit that I turned to an offense tactic of Manipulation for defense. Where I basically had to turn the attention of those around me away and towards this other person. And I kind of regret it but tbh, I do what works. This doesn't work at home sadly, so I'm actually super lost in family situations unless my sister is around to help me. Uh, I think I lost the thread of what I was planning to say. I think I wanted to talk about how my mask has certainly slipped recently both at home and out and I really appreciated dungeon meshi for how it depicted characters like Laios and Kabru (Tho obvs more Kabru for me) Even if I am a little sad about how some see kabru as manipulative most of all cuz I think about myself, but glad that there are many online who don't think as badly and seem to understand. Something something thanks for the video.

[@i-will-bite]

Hey, i just have to say - same! I kinda get why people who have only seen anime think of him as Manipulative (or straight-up evil) but i hope that seeing the rest of the story would change it. Because at first i wasn't sure too (thought that maybe i'm projecting my masking, my reasons for it, on him) -- the rest of the manga gave much needed insight. And i think what a lot of people miss is that he also has PTSD and survivor's giult > for him keeping people safe from That kind of event is viscerally important and takes precedent over being truthful. Kabru demonstrate times and times that he would do literally anything to achieve that goal. And if he is ready to die for it, smiling through gritted teeth is nothing. Is he right? maybe not [i mean, we as audience know that Laios is trustworthy. Kabru doesn't have the same luxury. From his POV all he does is justifiable]. Is he evil though?

[@ma.2089]

It really upset me when ppl called his masking indicative of him being bad. Everyone masks. It’s for survival. Kabru and Laios show that whether you mask or not, ppl will dislike you. But it’s also a lesson that you have to be open despite how much safer it is to be closed, or else you’ll never connect with the ppl you want.

[@stuffie5175]

15:45 To hear the autistic blubber makes me incredibly happy

[@footlong7980]

The metaphor at the end was cool! The video did feel just like that, but more like discovering cool rocks or very interesting looking soil bugs (and not just regular worms). I think for each opinion you brought up, you had solid points to back them up. I learnt a lot from this video. To add to what you said about possible reasons for the late diagnosing of females with autism, it's so common in the medical line (especially in the US apparently) for irresponsible doctors to chalk up complaints female patients make to hormones, emotional rampage and female biology creating a false alarm. Ive seen so many online testaments of cases of headaches, pain due fibroids or endometriosis, or some other potentially fatal underlying illness get ignored, so it makes sense that this same problem bleeds into diagnosing for mental conditions as well.

[@Rutabega_NG]

"Are you pregnant?" and "you need to lose weight" are the go-to for a lot of doctors who refuse to take us at all seriously.

[@chlorophyll1415]

I seem to be a white guy, but the way people ignore the differences makes me feel like: "Bro, believe me, this is evil, and you don't want to know what's going to happen next."

[@Drekromancer]

Therapist here. I've got ADHD and sensory problems, and I work with a lot of neurodivergent clients. One of the problems with autism underdiagnosis in women is that it's not just gender bias; girls tend to present certain disorders differently than boys do. Particularly in ADHD, and sometimes in autism as well. So a lot of clinicians don't know to look for it. But given my personal experience, I always go to the trouble of trying to find the best fit. For clarification, girls tend to have less externalizing symptoms of mental conditions in general, which makes them more likely to pass through normal channels in their lives without provoking a lot of scrutiny. As a result, they don't get checked out and referred to treatment as often or as early as a lot of boys do. For example, teachers can easily recognize if an 8-year-old boy is disruptive and unable to sit still, but they might not recognize an 8-year-old girl who can never stay focused, or who displays a frantic insistence on observing and following the social norms of the girls around her in order to avoid being ostracized. As for adult diagnosis, you have to know what to look for. Sensory difficulties always merit additional scrutiny. Intense, justified social anxiety resulting from a history of social dysfunction is another big clue. And constant struggles with perspective-taking and masking are relevant, too. I actually helped diagnose a 28-year-old woman with autism about a year and a half ago by spotting both of those traits - and she said it made all her lifelong struggles and behaviors finally make sense. That was a real triumph for me. 🙂

[@merobiba413]

@@Drekromancer glad you mentioned that! unfortunately a lot of criteria for autism diagnosis were taken from studies done exclusively on young white boys, so there ends up being a lot of sympoms that get overlooked in terms of neurodivergence presenting itself in other types of people

[@kimdalton5067]

As an auDHD AFAB person, Laois strongly reminded me of the experience of having both autism and ADHD. He’s impulsive, extroverted, loud, doesn’t pick up on the right details; those along with the autistic traits you talked about are all ways auDHD has also presented in me.

[@sablesoft]

manga spoilers ahead!! but more thoughts on kabru - - the thing that solidified my 'kabru is autistic' thoughts while reading the manga was during his arc with mithrun. mithrun as a character just doesn't (seem to) care about anything except defeating the dungeon lord, and so when kabru initiates with his usual charm, it just completely bounces off. i think if laios is seen as trampling through the social norms that kabru is used to, mithrun is just a total non-participant. and so, stuck in the dungeon alone with mithrun who he knows just doesnt care about these things, kabru starts to unmask. hes blunt, critical and is quite callous, but he still shows his care and empathy for mithrun's situation. the whole thing with kabru cutting down and changing mithrun's backstory honestly seems kind of mean at first glance, but you realise this is exactly what kabru has done for his own backstory. he knows that so much of life is how you present yourself to people around you, how much you choose to share, and so is trying to help mithrun in his own way. he shares some pretty intimate stuff about himself when theyre down there too! i think if laios is kabrus foil, then mithrun is kabrus mirror also obligatory shuro is also autistic propoganda, shoutout to all my toshiro autism believers

[@SashyyKane]

shoutout to all the Kabru and Toshiro autism believers fr fr

[@SuriOokami]

Personally I headcanon Falin as ADHD, “inattentive” type. I saw a lot of my own traits in her during the school flashback. For instance, pointing out bugs and berries as soon as she sees them, wandering off and grabbing a stick immediately, and retreating to a quiet and secluded place so she can concentrate on reading and writing letters. ADHD and autism have a lot of overlapping presentations, so this was just my interpretation off of the brief look we had at her!

[@sol_ARG]

much like other people in the comments have said, i _adore_ Kabru (and also similarly Shuro) from the "social extrovert" autistic perspective (for lack of a better simple phrase). i know how to talk to people! i'm really good at getting along with people, often to the point where i'll let way too much slide because i'm too caught up in social conventions and being nice to realize that the other person's being a jerk -- which is to say, i've experienced the festering thing multiple times from Shuro's end, letting people walk over me and act (creepily familiar/insensitive/outright dismissive/just generally unpleasant/copying literally every single one of my interests to a stalkerish degree) because i can't bring myself to say anything more than the gentlest request to "hey can you maybe not do that" unless i am 95% or more certain that they know they're crossing a line and are doing it anyway. (and by that point i am _beyond_ furious for having let them do it for that long, obviously) i love being around people. it is also _exhausting,_ and whereas Kabru swings more towards a self-justifying perspective, i often end up incredibly paranoid about accidentally (or semi-on-purpose-but-not-really) hurting/manipulating people, and it's a paranoia that makes the social exhaustion even worse. it can often feel like i'm having to mask internally as well as externally -- can't act too much on instinct, also can't act too much on learned convention. it also makes asking for/accepting help _so_ hard, which is something i really see in Kabru and also Marcille. i have the unfortunate breakdown response of "have a panic attack for 5min, suddenly get incredibly competent at the thing that caused me to have a panic attack, be completely wiped the rest of the day because of the Work Through It response" and. [GESTURES AT MARCILLE AND KABRU] yeah. oh, and also! awesome video! really well articulated, very thoughtful (avoids demonizing several characters that get the brunt of the "they suck and are the worst" interpretation, for one) and excellent subtle comedy editing! you've earned a subscriber :> wow this comment got long. oh well. sending it anyway.

[@UrsusCanis]

Five minutes into this video and I'm just thinking "can't wait for the anime-onlys to see Executive Dysfunction Depression Elf that I definitely don't project onto"

[@hattydrago]

As a rare case of 'early diagnosed autistic white girl' a lot of what you've mentioned really hit home. My initial watch of the show I could tell something was relateble about all three of the characters mentioned, but wasn't till around the Shuro confrantation that I myself realized, oh wait, Laios is neurodivergent. With Laios I see my younger pokemon obsessed self that gradually became my current identity of loving video games and anime video analysis. Kabiru I see my observational skills and charismatic nature developed by being ingroseed in the theater. In Falin, I see that young part of myself that would wander away from my parents at the zoo to go at my pace observing the animals. Really good analysis :3

[@FaeMagic]

I thought this was just gonna be another video I’d play in The background while I play GW2, but this was genuinely thought provoking and emotionally resonating for an anime I didn’t even watch.

[@captflameskulll]

I think something interesting to think about is that toshiro also shows a lot of symptoms of autism, which is certainly something to keep in mind when discussing the fight they had and their interactions in the latter portions of the series

[@wekashipo7507]

Yeah, I think it's notable that Shuro doesn't really hate Laios as much as he's frustrated with him and was overly emotional on account of being sleep-deprived, starving, and just witnessed his crush being turned into a manmade horror beyond his comprehension. Which made him say something he didn't really mean. What he said was still hurtful, and I think it's a credit to Laios that he not only didn't hold a grudge, but even continues to hold a high enough opinion of Shuro that he literally says he would marry him. There is a gag in the manga that was cut from the anime, where Laios didn't properly fasten the bell Shuro gave him, so Shuro's bell constantly rings whenever Laios moves. Which annoys the shit out of Shuro, but he still never throws it away and keeps it right next to his heart. Which I think is a great metaphor for how he feels about Laios in general. Shuro is less of a neurotypical, and more of an autist whose culture and social class mean that he doesn't get the luxury of not masking like Laios does. In the same way Kabru loves playing the game of social interaction and is dumbfounded by a guy who chose not to play, Shuro dislikes it and is annoyed by a guy who doesn't put in the effort to pass as a normie like he does.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

It is in equal parts sad and hilarious that their entire fight could be interpreted as two autistic people in different sides of the spectrum duking it out

[@SashyyKane]

so true !!

[@redgoldcrown3990]

@@wekashipo7507 tbh unless and until something proves me wrong I'm gonna keep believing what I want to, which is that Shuro does like Laios quite a lot (can't really help it, he's in love with the guy's sister and the siblings are cut from the same cloth), but for Shuro, he's one of those people you're fond of but ultimately have a limit with, after which point you need to take a break from them for a while. (which Shuro was understandably bad at enforcing - on top of his preference for subtlety and indirectness, it's just kind of hard to get away from someone when you're basically living with them, yknow?)

[@coledoe1030]

I get recommended stuff like this and just get terrified the whole time, because I love and relate to these characters a lot and just think “well that’s not a good sign” most of the time

[@ambisweetiepie]

We see the story from the viewpoint of characters who care for Falin. But there is evidence both in the anime and manga that she gets ostracized as well. She was not accepted in school, and Marcille was her first and only friend there. You mentioned during the bath scene of Falin not understanding the romantic implications of her actions. Contrast that with Falin presenting marcille some things to eat together (along with flowers that studio trigger decided to portray as the specific type of lily that japanese people use to relay romantic affection) and you see that Falin is also being affectionate in ways that Marcille doesn't pick up on. I liked when you talked about Kabru. I was thinking that when the video ended I would comment to say "Kabru is autistic too!" But then you mentioned it! And talked about it in depth! And I cheered! Also you mentioned the "using different forks while at a high society meal" and I'm (very probably autistic) and 37 and learned which forks to use when I was 16 and have kept that information in my mind ever since. I know it was an analogy, but couldn't help but think "I am prepared for that exact scenario!" Meals will be served and the forks are placed so with each course you use the fork that's furthest away from the plate. When they take the plate they will take the used fork as well.

[@happens1715]

Watching the big episode was an absolute fucking roller coaster. I was genuinely on the floor, screaming, and pointing, just like, losing my shit. I am so happy I was alone.

[@Sourinksoda]

im glad so many people are also enjoying dungeon meshi, myself and my neurodivergent friends are all going crazy for it, it somehow ticks every one of my special interest boxes for a real genuine love i havent felt for a show or manga in awhile. That so many characters are autistic makes it feel all the more heartfelt in alot of ways, theres that understanding between laios, kaburu and falin that they all carry with them in such a genuine and lived experience kind of way. The truths of who they are always shine through, complex people who feel deeply about the people and things they care about.

[@cheseborgor430]

Personally, I relate to Kabru so much. I’m autistic as well, and one of my special interests is psychology and social cues. I have a system for comforting people, for helping people, and for virtually any conversation. Seeing my style of analyzation represented in him felt very personal, as it’s rare I find someone on that same plane as me. I love using my knack for psychology for both people and writing characters, and all of that just feels so close to home with dungeon meshi. Also, this video made me subscribe to you :)