Superhero Rewind: Batman Arkham City Review

[@Geekvolution]

I don't play a lot of video games and so I didn't discover the storytelling potential of the medium until I got to Arkham Asylum. I've been told about plenty of other games that are as immersive, thought-provoking, and character driven as these, and I've tried to make it clear that I'm not a modern gamer and am simply unfamiliar with the current game scene except peripherally. I avoided reviewing game stories for a long time and only tried reviewing Asylum after being inundated with requests.

[@jman2856]

About the Demon Trials, did anyone of the paticpants have capes that magically make you fly? Did they know martial arts? Did they have gloves that keep a freakin sword from cutting your arm off?

[@christiancrusader9374]

The cape is actually similar to kites ninja used to same affect in some lore. Look up which ninja's video if you're curious.

[@StarWarsAddict527]

Yeah what's actually happening

[@ohitsthatguy8079]

I always assumed since the environment is a destroyed gotham it’s a personalized hallucination similar to Scarecrow’s fear gas. But outside of the gliding and gotham that’s mainly built on head cannon

[@thebryceisright5601]

In case you're wondering Cap, Azrael isn't Jean- Paul Valley from Knightfall. It is actually Michael Washington Lane.

[@TheVileOne]

Remember Logan, the Quinn pregnancy is ambiguous. There is the one positive pregnancy test we also saw in the main game. However, we see a bunch of negative ones as well in that office next to the Joker doll. I think Quinn is just nutso because she wanted to be pregnant, but we aren't sure. I don't think she is honestly. One good though is that the Quinn's Revenge epilogue did show that Batman was able to cure the people of Gotham infected by Joker's blood.

[@animationunlimited2958]

Bruce Wayne is the mask and Batman is the true self is an idea that Tim Burton and Stan Berkowitz seem to subscribe to, probably more then Paul Dini and Bruce Tim and so do I.

[@ick13]

I haven't gone through the comments, so I don't know how many people have corrected you on this, but Harley's Revenge suggests that she is NOT pregnant with Joker's child. This is suggested by the abundant amount of negative pregnancy tests laid out all over the floor around the crib.

[@MtnDewGuy100]

*shit, cool it on those ads, man , goddamn !*

[@xDeadMonkiex]

This is such a fantastic analysis great work Cap! You hit so many points right on the head with this rewind. I hope you can eventually do a superhero rewind for Batman: Arkham Origins. It had a really mesmerizing story as well. The relationship between Bruce and Alfred is heavily stressed, and Batman's journey from someone with complete dominance over the criminals, to having the situation be completely flipped is amazing! Also, I love watching the affect that The Joker has on Batman's psyche!

[@Geekvolution]

Another good catch, thanks. I think the scene could maybe have been clearer about that-- I thought she was just hiding out there. I find it hard to believe the Penguin's gang could capture a League of Assassins ninja, and it still strikes me as an enormously unlikely lucky break for Batman. -CL

[@pyromania1018]

If you push the button next to her cage, Penguin will say she killed a lot of his men before being captured.

[@murps8]

I was wondering if you would do a superhero rewind for batman arkham knight. The story I found was just as interesting as arkham city's with many nods to classic batman stories. It themes about what batman trully fears is quite interesting. Please tell me your make it eventually.

[@Geekvolution]

I really thought about dissecting the song but I'd already written so much I decided to leave it out. -CL

[@bdpickett]

Grundy is a member of Batman's Rogue's Gallery, just not an oft-used one. I think he inherited him from Alan Scott AKA Green Lantern, who also fought crime in Gotham. He's featured in Long Halloween in an interestingly sympathetic role, Batman even serving him Thanksgiving dinner, despite Grundy nearly killing him.

[@Geekvolution]

Yep, though I haven't decided exactly when. Not before next summer, certainly. -CL

[@silver6kraid]

Yeah I agree with that one. Though there are a lot of head scratchers if you read the extra documents and lore. Apparently the crime lords like Carmine Falcone and Sal Maroni were driven out by Strange and the Long Halloween didn't happen. Odd considering that is the most agreed upon and well received origin for Twoface.

[@murps8]

I was wondering if you will do a review of Batman Arkham Origins. I loved how you described the themes in Arkham City in detail, and I would love to see you do it with Arkham Origins if at all possible. Thanks for the review of Arkham City, I can't wait to see what you review next.

[@LegendOfTheBat]

When it comes to analyzing, you're the king, Cap - you made so many different interesting points in this one long video. Great job!

[@thepulp80s]

My mind blew when you pointed out the Kane and Able painting.

[@janeyrevanescence12]

Another thing I thought about in regards to the Cain and Abel symbolism is a key quote from the story of Cain and Abel (Cain murdered his brother because God favored Abel's sacrifice over Cain's) is "Am I my brother's keeper?" That's one that I think the story of Arkham City addresses: What role do we play in other people's lives? Are we responsible for how people turn out? In many ways, Batman is his brother's keeper, he looks out for everyone else. In a sick and twisted way, so are Hugo Strange and Ra's al Ghul.

[@jstephenj]

If Origins does well in sales, WB Interactive may decide to produce dual Arkham franchises using Rocksteady to tell the story in the present day, while having WB Montreal fill in any of the established backstories that Rocksteady aren't able to explore.

[@TheAzulmagia]

I feel like the implication is that Gotham is corrupt because Ra's built that Lazarus Pit, which causes insanity to other people. However, it's so low beneath the city that it doesn't kill people like it did with the people who lived in Wonder City.

[@MsSomeone98]

Lazarus pits are natural. Also, the Lazarus only corrupts people when they bathe in it. Not just stand around it.

[@TheAzulmagia]

Siddiq Ismail The Lazarus Pit killed everyone in Wonder City even though they never used it. It's not unreasonable to believe it could have an effect on the people of Gotham.

[@MsSomeone98]

CheesyGranola where did it say so? Lazarus pots don't kill. They rejuvinate while making you go mad.

[@chmagiccharles]

Siddiq Ismail CheesyGranola What if the madness caused them to kill each other and themselves?

[@MsSomeone98]

Charles Hadeed Just being around Lazarus has no effects. Like I said, bathing in it rejuvenates you and makes you mad. So yeah, they probably went mad and killed each other.

[@Xboxmaster50]

I expect an in depth story like this for Arkham Origins, otherwise I just wouldn't be as interested. What made both City and Asylum so memorable for me was their amazing stories.

[@lanadelrey6613]

Harley isn't pregnant though all the tests scattered around say negative.

[@afonsolucas2219]

There was a positive one. Just one.

[@klaushammer8687]

Just gotta point out, idk these days but ten years ago getting a false positive was a huge probability. And having Quinn take a bunch until she gets what she wants is also likely. 1 positive out of 10 negative, well, you do the odds

[@Geekvolution]

Thanks for that-- I didn't think to check the character bios this time. -CL

[@Tribrachidiumheraldicum]

Should be your New Years special 2014. Kinda soon, but I'm pretty sure everyone who wants to has seen it enough to let it sink in.

[@Ava6581]

To me this continuity is the Batman animated series continuity but adding in all of the really mature pre-Hush, Batman stories that they weren't able to put into the show, like Killing Joke and Death in the family and some of the longer form Batman stories they didn't have time for like Jason Todd's story also an not having to take that shortcut in making Tim Drake and Jason Todd the same character.

[@XecuteArmagedon]

I've missed these long super hero rewinds! Will be waiting a year for batman arkham origins now haha

[@jakeamish877]

Might I recomend a few other games that warrent this type of in depth anaylisis? 1. Dues Ex: Human Revolution 2. Fallout: New Vegas 3. Red Dead: Redemption

[@afonsolucas2219]

Good games.

[@NerdyMastermind]

I never understood why people don't treat video games as a serious medium to tell stories. Not so much anymore with games like BioShock, The Last Of Us, Arkham Asylum, Arkham City, BioShock Infinite, InFamous, Uncharted, etc. But my point is just because the story is interactive or is presented in a format that is as much of what you make of it. It's not lesser than a book or a movie. Hell some of the best video games in the last 10 years of have better story, and characters. Than most of the "Oscar Masterpieces" that people admire.

[@mrdecepticonleader]

Or at least in his own twisted vision.In the interview tape with Riddler he sums it up "I know you sit alone in that costume,wondering if you are really worthy"along those lines.And it obviously all goes wrong for Hugo.Ra's used arkham city as test to see who was more worthy Batman or Hugo.

[@choicedecision]

Hi Cap, I wanted to say that I love your analysis of the game and I look forward to your future analysis of Origins. However, whilst I'm glad you definitely picked up and talked about the portrait of Cain & Able, you didn't go into another in-depth analysis of the song Joker sing's over the credits, in that it may be perceived as either Joker singing a lullaby to his unborn child, or to Batman himself, and explore those relationships Joker would have.

[@767scarecrow]

It was a nice surprise to find this vid in my feed. Also very fitting. I had just watched under the red hood. Music by Christopher drake. Then I played Arkham origins for the first time. Music also by Christopher drake. Then you upload this review. The logical conclusion to this 'marathon' of sorts is to watch the under the red hood superhero rewind. Again, good job cap. That was an awesome review. :)

[@Geekvolution]

Yeah, I never saw that room so I didn't see the Ventriloquist's puppet as more evidence that she's in denial and not really pregnant. I thought that was just a toy for the exptected baby or maybe even a clue Joker left behind that a baby was coming. The way the idea of legacy works into the story is more interesting if Joker at least thinks he's leaving behind an heir, I think, but the pregnancy test was an easter egg you may or not notice in the first place. -CL

[@opszanski]

My favorite game on my PS3 and unquestionably one of my favorite games of all time. The ending of this game with the Joker is incredibly dramatic, on par with - or dare I say exceeding - anything in the Dark Knight Trilogy.

[@N7Normandy1]

Another really good Batman Arkham City review: Batman Arkham City Review

[@MrJackieBlues]

Good show Cap. Thanks for reviewing this right before Origins comes out. There was so much I had forgotten about Arkham City

[@tmthy1012]

Thank you, Captain Logan. You have just inspired some ideas I'm going to turn into a Batman story. Thank you so much.

[@astrostar49]

I hope you get a chance to play Metal Gear Solid one day. At least the first one. I think those games are/were some of the best in terms of pioneering video games into some of the thought-provoking narratives we have today like the Batman Arkham series.

[@mrdecepticonleader]

I think regarding Ra's, that he set/helped set arkham city up, as a challenge/test for Batman to help further convince his notion that Batman is worthy to follow in his footsteps.And that maybe even using Arkham City in an attempt to change his ideology, to try and convince him that all the corruption and evil is not worth fighting to stop and to save peoples lives.Batman is forced into a place where the criminals are free to do as they wish.In a way the corruption is fully exposed.

[@nastylittlecritter]

This is my favorite game ever. I still need to 100% it

[@FraserSouris]

I'd love to hear your take on Witcher 3. It does that thing where the main story changes depending on which side quests you do or not. As well as the story's look at rationalizing "the lesser evil"

[@thepulp80s]

Wow... I miss spelled BOTH of their names. uh. Anyway, forced or not I never correlated that painting at the beginning with the ending, the foreshadowing.

[@edmonddantes563]

I've been waiting forever for this rewind ! Thank you cap worth the wait buddy

[@MalzraAirwynn]

I know it's almost certainly never going to happen but I'd love to see your take on some other story driven games like The Last of Us.

[@willier47]

I was just thinking that, but you can watch a very similar analysis on youtube. The KZbinrs name is Mathew Matosis.. I think thats how you spell it. He does it on various Franchises. He did an in depth analysis on The Last of Us as well. He points out a lot of things you probably missed.

[@bluedragonfive]

you are a worthy successor for this review Cap

[@leosanalien9904]

Hahaha, I thought the flying bats were just dramatic game effects after a beat down. But then I realized a cop actually seeing them and dodging. I was like, what? you can see them?

[@batmanrocks9112]

One of the best reviews I have heard in a long time. Amazing review very well thought very smart, but really only a 3.5 out of 4???

[@LazerDude]

Sorry but I have to say something about the ninja she was trapped in the museum case if you click the button on her cage the penguin says that he found her snooping around and so just by seeing her Batman could figure out that she worked for Ra's

[@marveldcuniverse101]

Mr. Freeze slammed Penguin into the glass, cracking it, making it easier for her to escape. She put effort into escaping following the mention of Ra's. Why she chose to haul ass instead of confronting the two men attempting to hunt Ra's down is a mystery, but the reason as to why she was there and how she escaped were pretty clear, I thought.

[@Geekvolution]

I agree, Tim in this continuity does feel like a cross between them. -CL

[@Geekvolution]

And yes, for a long time I didn't think video games were, at their core, a good storytelling medium because their primariy purpose has always been gameplay and interactivity. There are games now that use the interactive aspect to enhance the story, where the story that's being told demands you to be in the driver's seat. I don't mean to say that only the Batman games do that, just that I haven't had that experience with anything else yet because I don't play many contemporary games. -CL

[@Ashwgun]

agreed on time table causing the loss of immersion, but sometes u just have to let go and enjoy.

[@sleepyheadextreme]

I think a exploring a post joker batman verse would be interesting but it looks like the Arkham series is going out of its way to avoid looking into it. Origins has the set up of "What happened after year one?" Just so we can have the joker. Arkham Assault is movie version of the first game, and the next game-the one by Rocksteady- is said to deal with batman's interactions with the justice league- though this was said a long time ago and may be irrelevant by now.

[@JoeChillton]

0:41:25 Or maybe Alan Scott. I would love to have every Batman game for the next 10 years take place in this universe.

[@SolidPython2099]

Oh man,this is gonna be awesome "grabs a bunch of snacks"

[@Geekvolution]

I would have analyzed the story the same way, given that the negative tests were an afterthought, but yeah, I missed those in the DLC. -CL

[@joshl8686]

I also wondered why Two-Face doesn't have more thugs/followers. It seems like a pretty good deal compared to some of the other villains: if you screw up, he at least gives you a 50/50 chance of surviving.

[@magicdood7008]

I'm pretty sure there was a ninja in one of the exhibits in the Iceberg Lounge.

[@Geekvolution]

I totally agree with you, but I wonder if that's not the idea-- that Batman has this irrational guilt, or at least, emptiness, inside him after the Joker's dead, the kind of feeling Cain might have had after slaying his brother, but this situation is actually nothing like that and it's unwarranted. Batman recognizes he's not responsible for Joker's death, and yet that pose suggests there's something a little warped about his feelings about it. -CL

[@Geekvolution]

I'm hoping that Origins was made to tide everybody over until an Arkham 3 and that Rocksteady's actually been working on it since City, so it'll have double the development time. I'm also hoping for another veteran Batman writer since Dini's definitely not involved, but that's probably wishful thinking. -CL

[@KetwunsGamingPad]

If you played this on Wii U, that feeling of hearing people's voices on the GamePad gives that great, stealthy feeling of using Batman's tech gadget like an earpiece, then all the gadgets and interactions feel very much like you are being more tactical as Batman. People think otherwise, but I thought that's how Batman does it. He has nifty gadgets, but this version taught you to start thinking about "What if you had to think when holding the goods in your own personal hands?"

[@ericwright4580]

That was a good review still waiting to hear your arkham origins preview

[@767scarecrow]

Excellent review cap! It really got me thinking. And that's a very good thing since I'm currently playing Arkham origins. Playing that with all these thoughts in my head adds to the experience. I can't wait till you get round to playing and reviewing origins. It will be fitting because this game is the end of batman and joker's relationship and origins is about the beginning.

[@oliverhayhoe]

Thank you so much. Still my favorite series on KZbin!

[@Geekvolution]

And considering I didn't catch the clues that Harley really isn't pregnant in the DLC, wild speculation is *exactly* what I engaged in there, lol. But then, is it a whole piece if there are these additional little add-ons you have to buy that include hidden but necessary information to draw concrete conclusions? That's as frustrating to me as scenes cut out of theatrical releases of movies. -CL

[@Tribrachidiumheraldicum]

Rocksteady has started work on an Arkham 3. It's confirmed and Kevin Conroy is returning as the voice of Batman for the third installment. :)

[@LATVERIAN1]

"THE GREATEST GAME EVER INVENTED"!! This is what I've been waiting to see in a live action Batman film, but never will.

[@PopCultureguy]

hey captain logan great and amazing review on Batman: Arkham city, happy to see you do this great in depth analysis on this great movies and games. oh p.s the Captain America: Winter soldier trailer just come out.Is on the internet right now. if you are interested to hear movies news or topics on superheros or mainsteam movies-Beyond the trailer by grace randolph or the Amc theater movies talk show run by John Campea.

[@TheVileOne]

Oh wow, this was excellent work. Hope you do one of these for Arkham Origins as well.

[@Geekvolution]

Thank you, I definitely will down the road. -CL

[@jstephenj]

I know that it's a longshot, but would you ever put any sincere thought into doing a Superhero Rewind on Lego Batman 2 (and possibly Lego Batman 1) in anticipation for the upcoming Lego Batman 3 in the fall. Also, have you checked out the new E3 footage for Arkham Knight yet?

[@tyspyranger]

jstephenj He probably won't do any Lego games, seeing as they don't tell deep or thought-provoking stories.

[@jstephenj]

tyspyranger Neither did Clooney & Robin or My Super Ex-Girlfriend. Just sayin'

[@tyspyranger]

jstephenj Cap said that he was going to review every superhero film ever made, not every superhero video game. Just sayin'

[@cgoode1201]

... I'm sitting here, watching this while I have Steam running in the background, counting down until Arkham Origins unlocks. Rawrgh! Good stuff, and a fascinating insight. There have been a number of episodes in the Animated Series that have also asked the question, "Do the criminals exist in spite of, or because of, Batman?" Curious as to your insights.

[@ScythePlayer]

Hello, Cap! Great review, I'm a fan of your channel. I wanted to point out that the League of Assassins ninja was a prisoner in one of the Penguin's exhibits if you play through it again you will notice her in the background during the cutscene. That being said, I completely agree with you on why she would announce herself at that moment while Batman was present, Why didn't she wait for them to leave? And when she escapes, she jumps through the glass seemingly without strenuous effort...

[@Geekvolution]

I agree, it's a really satisfying fight at the gameplay level. And I thought it was really hard! -CL

[@jstephenj]

Rocksteady began pre-production for Arkham City in early 2009, months before Arkham Asylum was released, so it's likely that they began work on Arkham 3 shortly before or after Arkham City was released. WB purchased Rocksteady about a month before Arkham City was released, so take it for what it's worth. Conroy accidentally leaked news of his involvement in Arkham 3, when Origins was announced. He only retracted the tweet when he realized that Origins was a prequel.

[@Geekvolution]

I just thought it was odd he seemed not to recognize the suit-- it seemed like he didn't know the mantle of Azrael. -CL

[@DrunkenMimir]

In Harley's Revenge, you can find a room with pregnancy tests scattered on the floor, all negative but one. And there's a crib that if you look in it, the Ventrilloquist's puppet (forgot the name, sorry) is painted and dressed up like the Joker. Kind of morbid in a way, but as always with these characters, also very fascinating.

[@YozoraHeart]

Would you say you enjoyed Arkham Origins?

[@DerAntagonist]

I hope so as well, I was really disappointed when I read that Dini isn't writing the story this time.

[@redheadboyyy123]

Please for God's sake do a stufy on Arkham Origins and Arkham Knight. I know you do your reviews after the medium has been out for a good amount of time, but i would love to see you finish this series of games through and through. Kind of like start to finish

[@KamisamanoOtaku]

Yup, I understand. Since it "blew your mind", though, I took that as assent to Cap's position. The painting was from a section with Two-Face, right? Seriously, if I got that wrong, let me know. >.> If it matches up "perfectly", I was wrong and it is definitely foreshadowing. I still find it forced, but it is legit. I have big issues with Batman but even I have a hard time correlating him with Cain. Joker in no way is a good analog for Abel.

[@DogoHalibar]

Arguably, Two-Face ended up in control of half the city, but I still get your point storywise.

[@taylorpechter5422]

Amazing analysis. Makes me love this game even more.

[@iamsuperbatman1993]

What are your thoughts on some of the voice acting for other characters that are not Batman or the joker, like say Harley, Talia, Ras, Two-Face, Penguin, Mr. Freeze etc.?

[@VideoGameFreakW97]

I'm pretty sure Ras made the challange easier just to make sure Batman got to the end. Remember: He WANTED to be killed and replaced!

[@DrMadd]

Well I always considered Grundy to be a batman villain so I don't see a problem with him in a batman game.

[@futurehollywoodman]

Another thing is Ra's has fought Batman before he already deemed him worthy so the rest was just a formality.

[@PuffPuff903]

Hey Cap, have you gotten a request or plan to review American Beauty on Rewind United? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that movie.

[@RomactionFreak5]

Robin confirmed people were infected, and lots of them. Sadly though, I think you're probably right in regards to it not being brought up again. If Dini doesn't return to right the City sequel, the whole plot point will probably go unacknowledged. I'm still hoping something will be done with it, though.

[@ps3man1998]

Cap, they did address Ra's involvement in the creation of Wonder City in the Arkham City Stories that were in the same section as the character bios. Basically, it said that Wonder City was created overtop Slaughter Swamp, the same place where Grundy was created. The Lazarus chemicals in the swamp made Grundy what he was, and Ra's decided to build a city to utilize it, while simultaneously fighting Gotham's corruption. In the end, it failed, and everyone forgot about it.

[@AxonTOAdi]

Awesome video! Looking forward to Origins. Watching all the way from Japan.

[@DrMadd]

Isn't Grundy a Batman villain?

[@christiancrusader9374]

No. He's a green lantern villain.

[@DogoHalibar]

I think he's just used in Batman stories because he's based in Gotham.

[@SantosAl]

I'm a bit perplexed, it seems that you haven't really read the arkham city stories that pop up by completing riddles. also the ninja didn't pop up from nowhere, she was an exhibit piece in the museum (in a glass and metal case). Besides this the review was well done.

[@Kumquatodor]

He means that it was awfully convenient that there just HAPPENED to a highly trained member of the LoA just sitting there.

[@mrdecepticonleader]

And Batman does battle with that notion.Whilst Hugo set it up to prove to Ra's that he is worthy.Maybe Ra's never intended Hugo to become his successor but instead Batman and he used Hugo to help fulfill that.Since Hugo is obsessed with Batman he also wants to prove he is better than him, that he can replace him.When he does give a clue that he is working for someone else he wants Batman to find out he is Ra's's apprentice and to outright prove to Batman that he is superior to him.

[@jstephenj]

Have you ever thought of doing a podcast on the HBO series, Six Feet Under? It was made by the screenwriter of American Beauty. And like Breaking Bad, it has a serialized format. Arguably the best series ever made. It shares similarity with Breaking Bad in that it was given a highly satisfying sendoff befitting to the series.

[@Ihavealife100]

With Harley Quinn pregnant, and Talia's hint of her and Bruce's night in Metropolis, who else is excited for the upcoming "Batman: The Next Generation"! Starring Patrick Stewart giving his voice and likeliness to Damian Wayne! Gonna be awesome!

[@Ygdrasium]

the ninja got caught by Penguin's men and shoved into one of the exhibits but escaped

[@N7Normandy1]

The Last Of Us another beautiful game, you should get that, its inspired by True Gritt. They do a great job in making the gameplay feel like a scene within itself, the tension of counting how many rounds you have in your gun as you worry about keeping the girl safe especially since there is no music in The last Of Us when you are trying to survive, feels like No Country For Old Men.

[@RobbyRayRana]

Just so you know, the ninja was locked up by the penguin. Not hiding.

[@mrdecepticonleader]

Yeah by that point Ra's had finally realized that he would agree to join and that is why he killed himself and he attempted to kill Batman along with him. He had finally realized he had lost.

[@Welther47]

5:40 I love every sec of Arkham Asylum. Everything that happend was a "Wow"-moment. In Arkham City I was much less impressed. Maybe because Asylum was the first good batman game or because is was wearing thin; I don't know. Im much more enjoying Origins right know. The funny thing is I don't know why AC didn't do it for me, because I still had fun with it - I think I will go through all of them again. AO, AA and AC.

[@Geekvolution]

You know, I think that is on the list, actually!

[@mrdecepticonleader]

Yeah but he also wanted to use it to try and change Batman. To convince him to join his cause,