There is No "Bad" Playstyle for a New Player to Start With

[@TheStrangeBloke]

Loved what Brian_F said here. "If people are telling you that you are playing wrong, its a sign you're closer to winning."

[@abbymems]

Fun little factoid about piano learning: the beginner's book I own actually tells you after you've learned certain songs that you're ready for The Adult Pop Songs book or The Common Christmas Songs book. In other words, the people who made the tutorials are suggesting to new players that they go try the stuff they're more interested in as soon as possible. Learning is good and all, but having fun is pretty important too.

[@shadowflash0]

Gonna be honest, that was sorta the trap I fell into when learning guitar. Not sure if it was my teachers or myself that planted the idea in my head, but I had this notion that I had to learn X number of basic songs before I could play the songs I was actually interested in. Unsurprisingly, this led to me losing interest and dropping off multiple times. At some point I just said screw it and decided to learn some songs I actually liked. Turns out it's actually very fun and reignited my love for the instrument. Who knew.

[@Arlo5.13]

I hated practicing piano as a kid...until I started finding sheet music of songs I like online, then I suddenly couldn't STOP practicing to get better. Obviously you need a foundation, but you need to find the fun too 👍

[@spapbp]

Here's an actual factoid: Factoid means fact. Factoid actually means a commonly believed statement that is, in fact, not a fact.

[@abbymems]

@@spapbp Neat! I just liked the sound of the word tbh

[@VolcanoShed]

I used to buy into the idea that learning a "grounded, honest, shoto, footsies" style was some holy grail of fighting game fundamentals when I was newer to FGs and it hindered me for months because not only was I trying too hard to play safe and react to everything, and never challenge anything as Sajam said but I was also trying to extrapolate it into games where it didn't even make sense. The "stay grounded, play honest footsies" stuff isn't even useful with games like KOF, smash, basically any anime airdasher, where a big part of the game IS jumping and being in the air.

[@PatrickRatman]

I mean guilty gear has footsies but it's not the "shuffling back and fourth trying to get an opening" kind of footsies.

[@leithaziz2716]

​@@PatrickRatman For real? That doesn't sound like the "fair and honest footsies GG is known for" according to Twitter D:

[@huevonesunltd]

In KOF whenever i see someone try to play grounded footsies or traditional keep away zoning it's bully time. They are basically crippling themselves, it can work until a certain point but you gotta be extra good at it.

[@zenbrown7144]

Oof, taking ground based footsies into Smash would be pretty rough. You gotta play shorthop height L cancelled footsies.

[@zenbrown7144]

@@PatrickRatman This definitely still has its place in GG, but it's definitely not the primary method of footsies lol.

[@kevingriffith6011]

Part of the problem I think some people have about learning a character is that they think they need to watch 50 guides, spend 100 hours in the lab, read their 5000 page autobiography and order a full cosplay of that character online in order to play their first match online with them... and you really don't. Learn their specials, pick a button to anti-air with, get three... I won't even say good, just passable combos (one far buffer, one fast punish and one big boy damage combo) and you're good to go. The less time you commit to learning a character in the beginning, the less invested you'll be to in that character and the easier it will be to switch if it's not working out (or if you run into another character who looks way more fun than your guy). You can refine that base once you feel like this really is the character for you.

[@ERRandDEL]

Sort of where I've been stuck for years. Tons of reading, tons of watching, some lab, hardly any actual matches.

[@kevingriffith6011]

@@ERRandDEL Just gotta work up some courage. The only thing you have to lose is the time you spend in the match. I have the same problem, but I'm working on it.

[@rpemulis]

@@ERRandDEL log off and go play man! the stakes couldnt be lower.

[@VinceOfAllTrades]

I think I get really tripped up by "passable combos". Hold myself to a high-level BnB suboptimal standard rather than something appropriate for my skill level.

[@VJ2099]

Yep I’m pretty guilty of this stuff. Well some of it. When I want to pick up a character, I lab a ton of stuff first before going online. Currently doing that now actually although in my defense, I’m trying to learn jack-o.

[@freddie9705]

The most important, fundamental skill that a new fighting game player can and should learn before anything else is how to enjoy playing fighting games

[@WozViral]

and you can apply that a lot of other crafts in life

[@Sorrelhas]

Brian_F said it best Pick a character that makes you want to play the game when you're not playing it

[@ddublu]

funnily, more than any other "major" composer, beethoven's own journey reflects this. His early works are conservative and you can hear his chasing of the idea of being "classical", "true". Over time he gets more adventurous and explores vastly differing ideas, curting the very edges of symphonies but even more so sonatas, until his own compositions started to define what it means to be "correct".

[@AlriikRidesAgain]

... So. I started my SF journey in the Alpha Anthology, and the character I gravitated to the most was Dan. See, I had this idea in my head that if I got good with Dan, and I beat people with him, no one could say it was the character. If there is any character that is actually the wrong way to start, it's Dan. ... Only, Dan taught me a lot back in those days. The power of attacking your opponent's mental health bar. The need for meter. The knowledge gap most people have when it comes to joke or low tier characters, and the surprises you can pull. How to deal with fireballs. If it weren't for Dan, my entire way of playing would be completely different. I'm mostly playing GG as a filthy Pot main now, but the first character you pick will teach you if you work with them. So just pick the one that you gravitate to. No matter if they are a crazy warlock or lizard man or stretch bro or Mr. Pink Shouty Man.

[@GaussiArson]

For real. I learned HFTF with Dio and Devo, universally considered the two hardest... I just thought they were cool and they were fun as shit. They taught me plenty and then I kept learning more as I went. Whoever you play will teach you whatever they need to.

[@greedsin555]

I fined it funny when he makes the music comparison cos that's pretty much how artists will tell you to learn art even though we all know they started drawing anime fan arts

[@SFtheWolf]

the piano analogy is amusing to me as someone raised in classical music spaces run by a bunch of old people who made exactly that beethoven argument you did and made me hate music for years

[@Blargel]

Yo same. That analogy hit way too close to home. I only started enjoying learning piano after I started downloading random sheet music off the internet for songs I actually liked, lol.

[@no_nameyouknow]

As someone who plays piano but was not classically trained, i kinda wish I was. I feel like I am too old and busy now to put in the time to start from scratch but classically trained pianists just have a very solid foundation which you can use to move to any style you like. Proper fingering, dexterity, sight reading, posture, all these things are useful for any style. That said, it's not worth it if it makes you hate music and give up. I am glad I led the musical life I did, but I do sometimes wish I had some classical training. Then again, it's never too late, I am not THAT old. 36 ain't old right??!?!?

[@Se7enRemain]

@@no_nameyouknow My mom just pivoted to para-educating at 39, and went back to college at 37. You got all the time in the world!

[@SFtheWolf]

@@no_nameyouknow starting young and getting fundamentals does put you at an early advantage but the classically trained part just means you were put on an assembly line imo. the classically trained people I knew also had very underdeveloped improvisational skills and knew theory on paper but rarely how to apply it. I'm turning 35 in less than a month and have a nerve problem that costs me a lot of dexterity on my left side but over the last 2 or 3 years I've managed to teach myself electric guitar well enough to jam along convincingly to the KoF arranged OSTs (granted music is one of my jobs so that solves the busy part). I wish I could put all those wasted years learning cello into something I actually wanted to do, I think all it did was give me a lifelong sense of stage fright I didn't start with. it also messed up my left hand, my middle finger is bent weird at the first knuckle from pressing on the fingerboard so much when I was little, and that makes it hard to form a non-collapsing arch with my hand these days. save being old for when you're 70, half the reason kids pick things up quickly is because they have no reason to assume they can't. 1% inspiration 99% perspiration and all that.

[@SFtheWolf]

@@Blargel I remember the disgusted noises I heard when I brought up pieces from video game soundtracks or relatively obscure 90s electronica that I wanted to pick apart, then they had me go do Proper Music by playing the 8 note bass line for pachelbel's canon in orchestra for empty churches. it was the worst, no wonder most people forced in by their parents end up quitting.

[@thewarriorofboros]

the new player obsession with honesty is so funny to me cause my philosophy from the beginning is to find whichever character makes me laugh the hardest when I hit my opponent with some bullshit and just run that

[@Azalealiketheflower]

Remembering when I was learning SF4 and a friend was insistent that I needed to play Ryu, I picked Ibuki and now some other people compliment my execution. I understand that it was to learn how the game worked fundamentally and understand how to approach matchups better; but if you force people into stuff they dont really enjoy, they tend to not stay with the game

[@SaviorGabriel]

Indeed. I main characters that I probably have no business even playing at my skill level. But I will play those characters because they feel so right to me. There's no greater joy in a fighting game than playing the character you love to play.

[@DwarlWarberry]

"He's over there. He hurt my feelings. I'm gonna hit him." Has become a mantra in my friend group. Ya know, sometimes you just have to send it.

[@DrGumbo]

playing whatever is the most fun to you is so important. every time i try to play a character that people say is "cool" or "honnest" i endup dropping them or the game.

[@b-d9099]

Yeah I always get drawn to rushdown even though it's hard to get used to their lack of defensive options but it's still much more fun and meaningful to me than playing a more rounded or zoner character and dying after winning neutral 25325t3 times

[@nethstar]

You'd be surprised how often it happens. I got into FG's when SFV released. I gravitated toward Laura, you don't know how many people said i shouldn't play her as someone who's learning. Then later on, went over to Tekken, picked up Gigas. Soooooooo many more veteran players - in a learning community discord no less - said i should not play Gigas. Word for word "drop gigas, you're not gonna learn your fundamentals with him". It's common. It happens often, and as a new player, you don't question it. You either ignore it because you're having too much fun playing x char or playstyle, or you conform and pick up someone you don't like and run the risk of disliking the game because you're being boxed in. In fact! the other day I wanted to play some new chars in dbfz and had someone say why are you picking these 2 chars as your team...just pick someone else more reliable. Had no idea if he was trolling or whatever but considering it's happened legitimately its hard to tell.

[@AP-qu2li]

Especially with grapplers like Laura, the learning curve just looks different and people don't like to realize that. I play Zangief, and yeah, you will stomp new players with Lariat and Bear Grab. You want to raw VT1 a bronze Ken? They aren't blocking that shit. But you will get hard stuck very quickly if you try that against people who are thinking a little bit. A few months in and a new player will probably reach a similar level regardless of what character they play. Maybe Ryu will take longer to get out of bronze, but I got hard stuck as Zangief for a bit once people stopped jumping at me and started zoning me out.

[@cylondorado4582]

I think people overrate how hard a complicated character is in a fighting game. Even if they’re harder then a shoto, it’s still just a game and it’s not impossible. So I’ve never had a problem just picking a character I like.

[@ultimasurge]

its really hard to un hear the bullshit people talk about playstyles. like mashers are noobs. But i agree with picking who you think is cool and learning em.

[@Max78000]

ultimasurge i mean, if you mash you’re just randomly spamming buttons, in a way that makes you a noob

[@cylondorado4582]

@@Max78000 I mean, It is kind of noobish, just because it usually isn’t very good. Like when a more experienced player notices you like to mash, so they counter hit you more and you die. But it’s also bad to never mash, because sometimes it is the right answer.

[@Bladieblah]

If you have the commitment I don't think there is a reason not to pick a character because of their complexity. If you like to master something or think their stuff is cool to land you will be motivated to learn it. However, if you lack that commitment some characters will simply feel unrewarding because you need to learn a bunch of specific techniques to get to the good part so to speak

[@PaygunFGC]

You’re spitting facts right now my guy 😤. Something I’d like to add is that there isn’t a “correct” way to play a character anyways. There’s basic ways you can play very execution-heavy characters or characters with weird char-specific mechanics that doesn’t involve you optimizing everything from the start. I.e, you can play Zato more of a very basic poke and strike/throw fighter without puppet stuff in Gear or play Kokonoe as more of a defensive poke character and not touch her crazy stuff initially in Blazblue.

[@Zevox87]

I think part of this ties into the recommendation that new players stick to easier to use characters while they're getting their feet wet - i.e. while they're probably still struggling even with basic motion inputs, doing supers at all, etc - since shoto-esque characters tend to be among the easier to use characters in most fighting games. Which is fair advice to an extent, for sure. But it's important to remember that not all easy to use characters are shotos. Sol or May in Guilty Gear are no shotos by any means, but definitely fall into the easy to use category that make them good picks for beginners, for instance. And of course, it's also important to remember that the most important thing is that whoever you play, you want to play them. Else you'll have no motivation to play. If the only character that interests you as a beginner in a game is a hard one like Zato-1, Arakune, etc; well, you might need to accept that it'll be harder for you to get your initial footing than if you played someone else, but you'll probably still be better off trying your ass off to play them than sticking to someone you have no interest in.

[@jeremylaforge6194]

As someone who loves playing traditional basic shotos, everyone should start out with the character that makes them want to play the game. If you arent interested in playing and quit who cares whether or not you were "learning correctly". Just mash that stick against other players and have fun however you want.

[@VaxistheWindow]

The music analogy was honestly so funny to me because I've met so many musicians who do that exact type of stuff like "oh you should only do x when you're just starting out" it's crazy

[@SpiralInstallGGSF]

The answer is ultimate, no, there are characters that will teach you things faster, but ultimately the best character to start with is the one you want to play the most. All characters (assuming they are well made) will have some sort of roundedness, there defense won't be so bad they instantly lose, there offense wont be so bad that you can't open them up. It might feel that way sometimes, but if the characters remotely well made, there weaknesses won't be so bad that you can't overcome them. The only characters I wouldn't recommend a new player play, are ones so awful they cannot win if anyone knows about there weaknesses. Basically a character who you can beat entirely by a knowledge check. 11 in Third Strike is the first that comes to mind, Little Mac in Ultimate comes close, but he to me is an example of coming close but not quiet being bad enough. It must be an absolute extreme, 11 is the only one I can really think of off the top of my head.

[@MarkoLomovic]

Couldn't agree more, I started playing when GG ACR got rollback and I picked ky to learn not because people said he is easy or whatever but because I saw s-blades video(GGXXAC+R Ky Kiske Combo Route Guide). VT loops just looked so damn cool. While I was labbing it I realised I could never get bored of this shit and rest is history.

[@NaoyaYami]

@@MarkoLomovic Heck, the only reason I even got into fighting games (despite how crappy I am at them) is due to GGXX's character designs (and that godly OST of course).

[@Skallva]

*Twelve Eleven is the second random select in SFV

[@IsacMH]

The moment that changed me was when I was doing a good ol' first to 50 set with a friend as Goldlewis vs his Nagoriyuki. I started conciously pressing during a part in his pressure where I'd almost always lose and just eat a bunch of damage and I did it because I'd rather guess right on his oki than sit and block for another eternity. I'll eat the damage because I'm a big boy and if I hit him once with the coffin, I'll put him inside it

[@rin2012]

As a new player to a fighting game I usually gravitate towards the character I find looks cool, then realise they don't fit my playstyle and inevitably I end up back at the shoto

[@olishonick]

Just stick with them you'll eventually start to understand their gameplan.

[@matrix3509]

This is my problem. My favorite playstyle is shotos. The problem is that every other character in every fighting game ever made is cooler than every game's shotos. The only exceptions I know of to this is Evil Ryu, and maybe Sol. Kyo might count, but I don't play KoF so I don't even know if he counts as a shoto. But even having said all that, all three of those characters are far from the coolest characters in their respective games. Obviously I'm being hyperbolic here, as I haven't played or even seen most fighting games, but it sure seems like shotos are purposely designed to be visually boring AF.

[@Copperhell144]

@@matrix3509 Both Kyo and Iori have "older" shoto movesets and "newer" unique movesets

[@Sorrelhas]

Whenever I pick a shoto just to get a feel for the game and I start to have fun, I think "damn, I bought a game with 40 characters in it, and I pick the f*cking protagonist" and I feel guilty

[@leithaziz2716]

@@Sorrelhas If you picked Sol, then you shouldn't feel bad. He's cool to the point that I've mained him in every game.

[@Exiacalibur]

I usually say start with a shoto because they have tools to try out different play styles. And if they find themselves leaning towards a certain style change to a different character that facilitates that better.

[@LegendaryMythril]

same, i just say "well these are the super easy characters that lets you play by ear, and they should give you an idea if you wanna stick to them or move to something more specialized"

[@Exiacalibur]

@@LegendaryMythril This man gets it. Shotos are like the ultimate test character.

[@DuoMaxwellDS]

Play a shoto because people usually don't hate shoto player. Then you meet an Arakune player and you start questioning your life choice.

[@VaSoapman]

Learn with zoner. Learn with friends. Make friends mad.

[@AnthanKrufix]

Not a fighting game example but.. I remember the first character I really wanted to learn and pick up in Dota2 was Invoker. For those who don't know, Invoker is a spell caster who needs to manually concoct his spells from a list of ingredients. It results in him getting a ridiculously large amount of spells available to him compared to the rest of the cast, which he's gotta remember the formulae for each one as well as how they work and how they combo with the other spells. ... But I was like, fuck that... This one spell seems strong, I'ma learn and cast that. And then when I was waiting for it to come back off cooldown again found another spell which would synergize with it which was good, and maybe one more for good measure.. And then oh no I'm getting attacked, oh wait I have something for this.... ... That's all. .... .. That's all I used.. And I got more than half way up the ladder while knowing less than half of my character's moves.

[@AgentBacalhau]

I do agree with all said on this video, especially when it comes to beginners, but I also genuinely do think that after you grasp what you like and dislike and your playstyle, later on forcing yourself to at least learn basics of other playstyles will make you overall a better player with a deeper understanding of the games. It's something I sorta struggle with, I'm absolutely fixated on rushdown, plus frame, strike throw sorts of characters and aggressive playstyles, stuff like Jam or Wagner, and learning I-No in GGST, who was still rushdown but instead of relying on plus frames was an oki monster, made me overall more comfortable with pacing myself differently in the cases I need to, even with said rushdown characters.

[@robbierotten2024]

I think there’s a tiny bit of validity to the concept. In a vacuum ignoring the persons interests, I would recommend a shoto like Ryu if they wanted to learn the game. He’s got an anti-air, he’s got a fireball, he’s got decent neutrals, he’s got fireball invulnerability, and an invincible wake up. Lots of good things for a new player to have and learn about because they cover fundamental concepts of the game, and are useful. But if they want to play zangief make sure they can do a full circle motion and help them out then send them loose, they’ll figure it out playing it like any other character, doing dumb stuff until they learn not to. It’s really that simple, lol.

[@hkxr]

This is turning into a life advice channel

[@mathewkinetix9180]

Had this basically happen to me in band. I wanted to play sax and the band teacher convinced my parents that by playing clarinet first, I would be a better sax player later. I just wanted to play sax (and honestly, I think the band teacher needed more clarinet players). Did I benefit from playing clarinet first, I dunno, but I can tell you that I'm still bitter about this almost 2 decades later.

[@ERRandDEL]

Back when Sign first dropped on console, I had zero GG experience and no real 2D experience outside of AE and Ultra. Wound up picking Pot just to try and learn something different and get a different perspective.

[@InsomniaNest]

Fellow paint drinker welcome

[@ERRandDEL]

@@InsomniaNest (i switched to Ky about a year in to Xrd and eventually to Sol where I stayed lol)

[@FaceD0wnDagon]

There are no bad playstyles for a newbie, but there might be bad individual characters for newbies. Even then, sufficient interest can do a lot to make a steep learning curve more bearable.

[@Haj_Otter]

I always resonate with the gatekeeping "you can't do what you want until you go train in the mountains and study the old ways." It always makes me cringe. Lots of my private lesson music tutors and alot of my peers in music would be like "you gotta practice your butt off and do scales/long tones for years before you can even fathom having fun" and im like man, practice is important don't get me wrong, but sometimes I just wanna have fun eith my music sometimes. People have this romanticized perception on what they see successful and think it's the end all-be all ,defacto way of doing things. What works for others might not work for you and I feel it's important to explore what you like doing and make it your own.

[@SaviorGabriel]

It's like teaching a child how to speak, then throwing a dictionary at them telling them they need to learn all that before they hit Kindergarten.

[@Nestix_the_stupid_one]

I actually kinda did this to my friend. He was kinda interested in fighting games, so our friend group decided to get him into strive. He knew literally nothing, so the first time he booted up the game, we pointed him towards Sol and said "ight listen, everyone here knows you suck at making decisions for yourself, so here's how it's gonna be. An important part of fighting games is learning what tools your character has or has not depending on each situation, so for your first experience, we're gonna stick you with a character that has literally everything. Here's how you exist in this game. Go nuts" He played his heart out with Sol and, despite thorough explanation of what each of his tools was, still had difficulty using them. After like 2 to 3 months of playing Sol and getting familiar, he asked us to give a roundabout explanation of each character in the game. Everyone in the group explained the general characters, and then after that we each went through our own mains to give him some perspective. I blame myself for this, but this mans literally insta-locked into Leo after I explained what the character does. The first words out of his mouth after I ended the Leo explanation were "that... sounds so cool..." He hasn't picked Sol since. And I honestly regret making him pick sol at first lol this man has the soul of a gorilla and I will give him the tools to be one

[@mechanicat1934]

Personally I do think there are some characters a newbie might pick that I would give warnings about. If I'm trying to help someone learning KOF I'm not gonna let them try Angel without saying something. Though after the talk, if they are still down once they know what they are getting into, then great. Even the most complex frustrating character can be learned by a newbie if they have determination and a little perspective. That said, I never ever tell people who they SHOULD play because who knows. Personally I can't play Shotos to save my life. They are my worst archetype by far. The reason for that is that I couldn't ever figure out a gameplan with them. But when I pick a character with a more specialized playstyle I understood that more intuitively. Their tools communicate at least part of their gameplan to me which gives me a harbor to start from while I branch out. Shotos are like just getting dumped in the ocean with no sense of direction.

[@geweurzgurke]

I started the DFD Beta slaving away as honest midrange Hitman. But then I found salvation in the relentless lockdown and setplay of our goddes Dragonknight. And so can you.

[@Howl_3DN]

I was fully expecting to play only Inquisitor and Kunoichi but I kept getting drawn back to Vanguard. Just felt good to play. Can’t wait for that game

[@julianmorgan79]

I learned that even if I lose it's still fun to just do a combo you practiced or to see even a little progress like an anti-air. Pick the character that makes landing combos feel fun, ken's light tatsu into heavy dp is sooo satisfying. Same with landing Seth's v trigger combos so in turn I play Seth and ken (shotos I know but fun is fun.)

[@sleepofgc]

You gain different skills from different characters and none of those skills are "wrong." Moreover, you will seldom find a character that uses that whole skillset. Playing Ryu will not prepare you to play Zangief. Playing Zangief will not prepare you to play Axl. Play the character that facilitates a gameplan you think is fun, or if you're like me, tomboy booba.

[@Nega12SP]

If I get the chance to introduce someone to a fighting game, I’ll tell them to play Angel (KOF) to start learning the ropes in fighting games

[@ZhangHe2369]

I would only warn players of characters that have unorthodox or complicated mechanics that make them harder to grasp unless you already have some fighting game knowledge (i.e. GG Zato, BB Carl, SFV Menat, etc). Not that they can't play them, just let them know that they are hard for even people who have been playing the game to get used to. If they're still insistent, then teach them from there.

[@georgealvarez1195]

You are right in theory and on paper. But videogames aren't played on paper or theoretically. In practice, a very new player, playing Menat, an objectively hard to use character, is probably just gonna quit the game after a week vs if they played someone they were just as interested in and had a little bit of an easier kit to maximize.

[@Ketsuekisan]

This discussion isn't about having a choice between two characters you're equally interested and being told to start with the easier one, it's about people being told to play characters they have no interest in at all simply because they're easier or more "honest" than the character they are actually interested in.

[@maxwellderpin8477]

Every year, the kids ask me who to play. I always tell them to pick up whoever looks cool and go from there.

[@Karaage_]

You aren't getting the true fighting game experience unless you have a character crisis for the first 100 hours.

[@bitvanbite]

Big button go brrrr is the piano version of playing Heart and Soul. It's a great way to start.

[@henriquerodrigues7795]

Bro i just started playing strive like 3 days ago, and i had the run forward throw moment today. It's a beautiful moment indeed.

[@orangecrisis8568]

Lol that’s exactly what lots of music teachers have told me in the past. “You have to learn Beethoven or classical pieces before trying other stuff” I just thought it was a funny coincidence that you used that exact same example.

[@SoysauceML]

While it is true that you should always pick the playstyle you like, but I think there's also some merits to picking characters that rely on fundamentals. I heard that Daigo too, started with Boxer for some quick wins, but people recommended him to try Ryu for similar reasons (which he took to heart).

[@yuutadfm]

So its okay to main May and kill opponents with dolphins/5h?

[@nathanjones8177]

So, the question of who do I play has always made sense to me picking your own character can often feel like jumping off the high dive into the deep end with out knowing how to swim. I think the shoto recommendation is more because they are a well rounded character type rather than an easy one. Overall I'd say just play who looks cool, and find a group of people to play with.

[@RiahGreen]

Came here to say your thumbnail is comedy gold

[@limitedbom2206]

I only have one friend that started playing fighting games. He wanted to play vs me so I would of course only do small combos and let him get hits in so he has satisfaction of close games. But if he is jump spamming like a crazy person, I’ll hit him as hard as I can. The only bad play style is someone who always jumps and that’s the only one I would recommend not trying lol

[@gengarisnotinsmash...]

I think the main reason people suggest shotos to new players is that they can branch out into literally anything. It's not about learning to get good, it's about learning what parts of the game you like and dislike it so you can try something else that fits you better.

[@samuelalphabet5360]

Yeah I always recommend people try a shoto, but the key word is try. If they realize they dont care about fireballs or want someone with a bigass command grab or whatever then yeah play who you want, but if you have no idea what you want ill just recommend the most basic wellrounded shit n let u try things out.

[@Luunyby]

Coming from Strive as my first fighting game I think what's stood out the most is that different games... play different! Simple as. Of course you'll get dunked if you go from Strive to Street Fighter the game functions different, in a way that's unique to it as much as Strive is unique to itself. Of course going from Strive to BBCF is way easier cause it just plays similarly.

[@mezi156]

when i was new to fighting games, i played sf5 as ryu because everyone told me that both SFV is the newbie friendly fighting game, and ryu is the best character for beginners. after months and months of having no fun trying to improve as ryu by playing overly safe like sajam talk about, never breaking out of silver, i got guilty gear strive when it came out and instantly was having more fun playing potemkin and learning to play him that way. now i know how to play a handful of characters and made it to celestial

[@MH3Raiser]

You know, for the longest time I played the most fundamental of fundamental shoto characters in games. I started with SF4 (like many my age) and immediately fell in love with the design of Ken, but I could never really... 'grok' what was required to be a good Ken. I eventually found 'my' fighting game series, the Blazblue series, and fell in love with the design of Ragna. And whilst I messed around with other characters and learned combos as most of the cast, I always wound back falling back on Ragna in matches cause his fundamental strengths were acting as a sort of crutch for my neutral play. On the one hand, Ragna has some specific incredible neutral buttons that flat out win in a lot of situations, but what makes a really GOOD Ragna is when you diversify beyond your best tools. But because I was playing a 'beginner' character and the discourse around him was as such, nobody really discussed the depths of ragna and I spent YEARS not knowing what to do or how to improve. And then I started to learn Hazama, and this character... is... BONKERS. Full screen air dashes, full screen projectile/normals that can always confirm into combos. Incredibly stubby normals that aren't good unless they're used to whiff punish or blow up startups, no forward run, no reliable high low mixup and in the first game I played him, absolutely NO meterless damage whasoever. And I had a fucking blast. Of course, I got absolutely smoked for a LONG time on Hazama, but I loved how freeing his mobility was, how many options I had in any given situation. Learning to use his stubby normals to beat characters like Ragna taught me the essentials of whiff punishing and neutral spacing. It improved me as player by leaps and bounds. And shockingly when I came back to playing Ragna or Ken... I actually GOT it. Wisest words I was ever told that led to me stopping hesitating and dedicating some gametime to Hazama: "Nobody gets to decide what's dumb or worthwhile to you, other than you."

[@felix_xb]

The learn shotos comes from the series that (if I'm not mistaken) came up with the terms..... streetfighter, 4/5 specifically I think

[@zatharista]

My favorite part of this video is "Moste doesn't have time for your bullshit." Good shit Moste!

[@VernulaUtUmbra]

I feel like the idea of playing a Shoto first is still a good one, but not as a sort of 100 hour "You must play honest to get good fundamentals" type way. A player who is new to the genre can pick any of the tools that Shotos have and try to figure out what kind of playstyle they like (reactionary with DP, Zoning with projectiles, Grappler with grabs, and so on) and then that will help them pick a character after a match or two of just trying stuff out. The Shoto just simply has the tools you need to make a more informed decision about your playstyle when picking a character if you have no idea going in.

[@RingTeam]

As someone who started playing Guilty Gear 3 months ago with Missing Link and XX +R, I can confirm there is no "bad" playstyle. I think the most important factor is to have fun playing and then, if you're interested in being a consistent player, you can watch or read some guides.

[@jimbo5266]

I think many people seem to over-exaggerate how transferrable some character skill is. If you play as a shoto, you'll get some useful fundamental skills, but largely you'll get skills in just knowing how to play a shoto, which won't help you learn a grappler, or a pixie character. Knowing when to fireball, when to DP, etc., are very different skills than knowing when you can command grab, or knowing how to frame-trap or get away with a dirty mixup. The silliest thing I heard was someone saying "to play Angel [in KOF] a person needs to have a fundamental understanding of KOF." But that's not really true, any more than any other character. Every character requires understanding game fundamentals, but Angel herself is such an unorthodox character. In order to play her, you need specific skills and practice just to use her extremely unique chain system. KOF has fundamentals obviously, but often specific moves require really unique skills to both use but also to defeat. Not all skill is the same, and you don't just grind to reach some sort of "pinnacle" of skill where you know how to play every character and fight every matchup. New players should pick a character they like, but in most fighting games you'll eventually need a very wide amount of knowledge to win. It won't just be "footsies and fundamentals" that will let you beat every character, or even succeed if your character is unorthodox.

[@Hawko1313]

To this day I still need a half circle command grab so people fear my weak offence or I can’t open my opponent up.

[@rain1717]

I learned how to play anime fighters picking up Baiken in ACpr, mashing normal gatlings and eventually realizing if I wiggled the stick forward and mashed S I'd get super sometimes

[@free_playstation_2]

Banger thumbnail and bangerer video as always

[@FungiWizard]

I recently ran into a similar situation but for shooters. I mentioned I wanted to try out Apex Legends but had very little experience with shooting games and I got bombarded with recommendations for single player shooters to "teach me the fundamentals". I get the idea that it'll build specific skills or mentalities by playing these random other shooters, but I just want to try out Apex cause it looks fun and all of my friends play it. I'm having a blast getting my ass kicked cause it's a game I'm interested in the same way I love losing in fighting games cause I love the game while I'm learning

[@Sorrelhas]

To get good at shooters play Ultrakill, trust me

[@IsacMH]

Things required to enjoy Apex: Pick the cool character Know of one (1) gun you like and hunt for it This is how we do out here. I see re-45 and I smile :)

[@doommaker4000]

@@Sorrelhas There are only 2 games I'd consider perfect, and this is one of them

[@tuhalu4123]

Of course Moste kept the part where Sajam says "leave Moste alone" 🤣

[@ubeemac7094]

Zoners are a good way to learn a game. A responsive gameplan based on reads. Start by poking and seeing what’s minus. See how people approach and what’s hard to block. Figure out the characters with the safety of a good anti air. I feel like it’s harder for mobile character to absorb information when they’re jumping around whiffing.

[@jreut09]

Nah, zoners will make you good at reacting to and punishing things far away, but if you decide you want to play rushdown after that, your close range challenges are gonna be garbage. The best way to learn a game is playing it the way you want to play it so you start having fun faster

[@williambencher2466]

I litterally started with strive. I'm 32. I did this approach, never played rush down characters and stuff like that. The problem is I hit a bottle kneck I still struggle with where I cannot move forward and can only give up the corner as I back myself in.

[@yearslate9349]

Ask not what fundamentals can do for you. Ask what you can do for FUN.

[@AsianSensationz]

I got my friend into fighting game with GGXrd. He would not play anything else besides Venom cuz he thought balls were cool. While learning zero combos, he developed a strategy to get into a situation where he can set a ball or two. Just focusing on that goal of setting up balls, he became a decent player while knowing zero combos or anything some might say "essential" to the fighting games.

[@CanalBillCast]

In Capcom's Marvel Super Heroes I tried Professor Hulk because I like the character and he have a pretty easy infinite, but he's kinda slow and his movement options are not my favorite. So I returned to Spiderman, Magneto and Psylocke... At least I like these characters too. :P

[@WozViral]

As I tell to ppl who wants to play fighting games and asking who to pick etc... i just tell them to check quickly the roster in training like their design pick someone that interest them, check out the input in training like really quickly, jump online or whatever mode where you can fight things and just press the buttons don't care to lose 8 times in a row try to enjoy the small victories you got during playing (landing combo, landing a super, winning a round...)

[@rexieyoung951]

My first time competitive fighting game was Uniclr and I started off playing Chaos and byakuya. seeing shotos is why I just got into fighting games a few years ago in my whole 24year life. I like that complicated play style with set ups and wonky mechanics. I say If a character catches your attention, learn the basics and don't give up.

[@MihaelXMe97]

When I first started playing fighting games more frequently, I started playing Ryu just to get myself acquainted with sfv as a game. But as I got more comfortable with how the game played, I switched from Ryu to Birdie, just because he felt way more satisfying and cool to play. Maybe people who have this idea of honorable footsies in fighting games just haven't broken out of their shell yet!

[@bolgerasful]

My first main was Paprika from the pony game. She taught me to have fun and skip neutral. Now I play May, Alisa and Honda

[@legend0945]

I think let's some times in games like Tekken, someone wants to learn yoshimitsu and he really wanna be a good player, I think it's good advice to tell him " *hey you can have fun and all but you should know that you're playing a tricky character, it's a match up that a lot of your opponents may not know, so if you wanna improve to be a good player with yoshimitsu be sur that you're not just knowledge checking them to death and think you're getting good then you fight people who know the match up and you don't know what's it you're doing wrong* " because some people actually wanna be good, maybe not tournament good but at least something, and I'm pretty sure they can go with knowledge checks then get better when they get beat up later but that's gonna be more painful.( Yoshimitsu is all about gimmicks and messing with the opponent brain anyway but you get the idea) I don't know if I explained my point well but I hope you understand.

[@MarkoLomovic]

I think it is good explanation but example could be more simpler. Since you have eddie as avatar it is wise to explain to new player that has intrest in zato how he works and what to expect. This is not even about difficulty it is about giving proper picture as to how he is played.

[@kurikari1675]

Except grapplers, grapplers arent people

[@Fooacta]

Respect my right to eat paint

[@Napstablooky]

What’s your opinion on Jiyuna saying you need to sit in training mode for hundreds of hours if you pick Arakune or Izanami and you should pick a different character to learn the game?

[@MarkoLomovic]

I think Jiyuna exaggerate there with hours but his point was that you can't just dive in and learn system mechanics with those characters. It is like trying to learn the game without lab and you pick ino in strive and find out that she goes up when you dash. So at that moment you fighting on two fronts dealing with awkward dash and no knowing system mechanics. So what happens you go to training mode to get used to it then go into matches to learn the game.

[@richardjohnson8991]

When I first started playing fighting games I thought zoners were the most bullshit and so I tried to learn how to play in that style, the thought process being if they can't get in I will win for free no problem. Little did I know most zoners involve making hard call outs and do significantly less damage per hit than the average character and without ever learning what to do once someone gets in my ass would get smoked. Now my favorite characters are grapplers because I love the big damage single hits for making the right decisions and the struggle of getting in sometimes is the most fun to me. I would have never thought my favorite archetype would be the literal antithesis to what I thought was the strongest playstyle.

[@sheipi9978]

a "bad" playstyle to start with is the puppet character because you will get your ass kicked more than you would with any other playstyle

[@philosopherkingzant2037]

The best way to play the game is to do nothing more than just playing it. Get a feel for the game and find out which character fits you best. Once mere experience makes you decently familiar with the game and how to win, then it's time for serious learning. The basic fundamental skill of the game can make a player better than most would imagine

[@madchal]

First fighting game character I ever played was R Mika in sfv and wake up super never gets old.

[@StubenhockerElite]

It all goes back to "Just Press Buttons lol". The only really important Thing for my learning process was playing local because that's the Environment where it's the easiest to try Out cool Shit.

[@NaoyaYami]

You can only go worse (but still not wrong) with starting with specific characters that either have very precise input requirements or cash in the most from knowledge about the game's specific mechanics. Also, I think it's just good idea to actually try other playstyles after a while since even if they don't click with you, you will have some clearer image of what that playstyle wants to do. Of course, if you're good at observing your opponent, you will learn this just by playing against them anyway.

[@quippon]

I typically gravitate towards weird characters that have some projectile option that is kind of limited because they are more of a rushdown or setplay type, Ram from both Xrd and Strive are examples of both, Noel from melty I often had problems with running out of my needle, The only shoto I've put significant time into were ky in xrd. I just find my fun with characters with big/long/floating weapons.

[@bruceleeds7988]

This advice comes from the basic rule that the "Protagonist" character is the one that displays the mechanics of a game the best, and for the most part is not wrong. However, there are games where this theory simply does not apply, Mortal Kombat is one. Another is Akira of virtua Fighter, a rare example where the hardest fighter in the game to use is the protagonist. If you have a love for something outside of fighting games that you see represented in a character, pick them. If you like Bruce Lee, pick Marshall Law. if you like wrestlers pick Zangief. sometimes it is that simple.

[@Ek0]

I was born in 86, I've always been a filthy casual. I don't like to practice or lab. I play video games for fun, not to prove a point. Most important for beginners to understand IMHO is: Blocking high/low Stronger attack are slower and takes longer to start/recover Anti-airs are an important part of fighting games (usually) Throws are generally the offensive option to blocking Command input special moves Jump into training mode, try your special moves, try your normal buttons, get an idea for what they do, and how fast/slow they are. Then start playing imho. If the game has a lot of combos IE: no easy combo system like (MvC2) then maybe learn a few on youtube etc after trying the game out. Beyond that, there is so much nuance to be learned and some lessons take longer to realize than others. EDIT: Playstyle that works best for me, non-combo / intense-input style characters. IE: Zangief in SFV, Ramlethal in Strive, Iron Man/Psylocke/Sentinel in MvC2 etc etc. I don't have time for all that lab and caring. I really rely on youtube videos and others to teach me nuances/mechanics.

[@OrificeHorus]

This is why I'm planning on maining Zato when I get a fight stick. Is it easy? Fuck now. Is he cool as hell and voiced by DIO Brando? Fuck yeah.

[@yeetyeeterson1914]

I agree with a majority of it, but I'd have to say there's a type of character that's bad for newbies. That's any character that has unique movement or mechanics that no one else has that's a core part of their gameplay. I don't mean a meter or something I mean things like Potemkin's movement or Roshi in DBFZ. Although it's not as bad in DBFZ as you're learning a whole team at a time. The reason I say this is because integrating their movement options into your muscle memory can definitely bring up a barrier later on. If you're used to a jank super dash or basing a majority of your movement around special moves can make it awkward when switching to a character with regular movement. Although I wouldn't actively tell a player to avoid playing pot, roshi, etc. I would definitely tell them to keep it in mind if they plan on playing anyone else.

[@kinpsyght3731]

Just try all of them and play them. As a new player, you'll learn non stop. (This is the fun part in any competive game) There will be walls later, but being stuck at a character screen is only a mental problem because it's either intimidating because of all the characters or its to hard to choose from all the sick designs. So the question isn't about what's a good to learning character, it's about how to enjoy the game and to enjoy the game is to try the game. Once you've done that, you've pretty much reached the point of having you're personal opinion. In which case you learn what's hard or what's easy, without being given an opinion that sounds reasonable to many people but in practice doesn't help you personally unlike others. What ever you pick won't matter if you don't enjoy it, simple as that. ( unless your a vet and you min maxed a playstyle and you gravitate to that playstyle only to obliterate new players as a good past time or an obligation to welcome you, like them welcomed them )

[@maxrusty3596]

U can play whatever style u want when ur new but fact is some character styles such as grapplers has a higher learning curve. Thats all anybody means when they dont recomend someone who isnt basic. Nobody said anybody has to do anything....but good advice for a new player is to not pick a complex character or a grappler to start thats just true. They will not even want to continue playing the game after being so frustrated.

[@emperormegaman3856]

I made that mistake when getting a friend to play Street Fighter IV. i recomended he start wit Ken or Ryu. But it's when he tried Zangief that he started having fun. (turns out he found 360 easier to do than Shoryuken motion, too) And the stupid thing on my part is that i should have known better. I didn't start game playing the main character or easy one but just the character i found interesting, and that's generally what works. So i should've just told him to do the same.

[@ayj1166]

I don't think I've ever seen someone say a shoto is who a beginner should play, I've seen someone say they're easier (which idek about that lol) the most common advice I see is pick who you like playing.

[@no_nameyouknow]

People are often just in analysis paralysis and looking for any sort of advice. "play who you like" is not an answer that satisfies that, so they push and people then turn to "play x or y because it's easier" Edit, also the comment just below you suggests playing shoto, so clearly some people do think this way.

[@linevs88]

Woooooooooooo Sajam Vid!!!

[@val5062]

Recently played against an Asuka on Tekken 7. He constantly used Parry on wakeup. I used an elbow every chance I got and buffered chicken when I had a string which allowed me to. Lost once out of 5 or 6 times. Once he left he called me a spammer and a hacker, he basically recited the whole scrublord prayer to me. I told him that he had to block then he told me the fight got boring after the first set so he doesn't care about blocking and that it doesn't count as a loss because I'm a spammer. He had the revered ruler rank with over 3k wins with Asuka. There are bad characters to start playing a game with. Telling people the opposite is just as delusional as this guy was. If you're not willing to learn the most basic way to play the game, then you're not playing it hence why he told me it was boring. It applies to 10% to fg characters but not putting up warning signs on their (the people who ask these kinds of questions) roads will increase their chance of crashing. I don't buy a Tesla to not drive, I buy one because it's easier to drive. Driver's licenses are given to you because you have a basic knowledge of what might happen and how to deal with it, not because you have the driving skills of an F1 driver or the knowledge of a mechanic. A driver's license isn't a gatekeeper, it's an easy way to learn. Shotos aren't a gatekeeper, it's an easy way to learn.

[@Darkthoughts-z7r]

Pick the grappler

[@crowhaveninc.2103]

Not much experience with fighting games perse, but from my experience playing other games I think the most important fundamental skill to learn is conditioning. Which is something you can do with any playstyle. The funny thing is, players who only "Play safe and honest" are basically conditioning themselves into not expecting your crazy shit :P

[@chasemcfarland2851]

I both agree and disagree with this. For people who haven't played fighting games before, I think it's more import to pick a popular character than it is to pick one you like. Not every fighting game is popular, and not every character in a popular game has alot if players. The less popular a character is, the less resources a new player will have to learn them. And that's going to be a very important thing because new players won't have alot of knowledge to decide what they do and don't like, and they certainly won't have enough knowledge to just start experimenting with a system that they've never been presented with. So using someone else's knowledge, and someone else's character, can be a vital foundation to learning because it will provide more of a resource to learn from. A new player who picks Dan for example, probably won't understand why he's bad and feels clunky, they're more likely to assume that they themselves are just bad. Not many people play Dan either, so they won't see many other people to learn from. I believe it was Leon who made a good video about it.

[@thotacon]

I just like shotos because uppercuts and fireballs are cool. You look at Akuma, Sol, and fulgore and if that looks honest to you then you probably play Justice in +R

[@whizthesugoi]

Just play random select for your first 20 hours then decide what you like :)

[@Buruleque]

Pick a balanced character like Ken, and DP non stop like a monster.

[@thegoose8663]

Not true. I started to play Strive with badass vampire samurai and I can't play any other character because they're just not good enough.