Sajam Discusses Different Types of Fighting Game Players | Timmy, Johnny, & Spike

[@jmcrofts]

Timmy wants to experience something, Johnny wants to express something. Spike wants to prove something. For whatever reason I feel like fighting games attract a lot of Johnnys, myself included

[@Rhannmah]

I think that's a bit of an oversimplification, but yeah. Though when I think about Johnnies in fighting game character terms, I think of characters that are complex and intricate, where you have to setup your stuff before actually getting to winning. Characters like Venom, Rachel Alucard, or in a lesser measure Krillin. But I feel these types of characters are not very popular in general, since they require more. They fill a niche, but i feel the brunt of the players are more Timmy than Johnny. I feel Spike is more popular than Johnny, even.

[@bobrianfo104]

I think everyone would want to be a Johnny, but if when you're labbing you feel like your execution is not improving over time you drop characters and become either a Timmy or a Spike. I tried picking up Piccolo many times since he's my favourite, but I can't wrap my head around his combos and neutral so I just pick DBS Broly instead because he's fun.

[@manuelmateo3392]

@@bobrianfo104 I understand what you mean. I'm a Piccolo "main", but even I end up struggling with him, and tend to put more energy on my other two characters (one of whom is Cell, so yeah). Piccolo's great, but he can be complicated.

[@DragoonCenten]

In reality it is just a metric fuckton of Spikes with light Johnny qualities. Any Timmys are eaten alive.

[@Cryemoar]

@@Rhannmah Rhannmah While I agree, I wouldnt say Johnny solely uses complicated/complex characters, bc theres plenty of spikes that use complex character's to prove that theyre "different" or is elitist to people who dont use anything but complex characters. Though I believe while most players might lean to one side of the 3 player types, they are mostly likely a mixture of them all. I dont know anyone either that doesnt play for the experience of the game, I still get that same feeling from when I first started playing fighting games and I think thats what keeps most players in the FGC coming back/sitcking with it.

[@VinceOfAllTrades]

My heart wants me to be a Johnny but I'm really a Timmy. I'll pick complex characters, lab for hours, then get in a match and just unga bunga the whole way to the salt mines.

[@FujiBou]

"he's got the flip mixup" - Every Johnny ever

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

My fave is the no-mix-up mix-up. They can't foil your plans if you haven't one.

[@ghiidra__]

dbz is a hella timmy game

[@diobrando5896]

@@ghiidra__ Drooling MASh SupA dash

[@coreyrachar9694]

@@diobrando5896 dbfz would probably be the best game if super dash wasn't a thing.

[@onlyicedgarrett7791]

One things that's important to remember is that just cause Spike is trying to win doesn't mean he's a bad dude. Competition is at the heart of any PvP game, and Spikes are there for that heart. To play the game at the highest level they can and get even better every time they play.

[@Mar3eck]

Personally, I always get disappointed with Spikes and it's not because I think they're stupid or they're ruining the game or whatever. It's just that their mindset is so different to mine that I find it really hard to connect with them. I love fighting games but not because they're competetive and and I was never that competetive myself. I just like cool shit

[@painandpyro]

Absolutely, but brother: where is the joy in winning if you must sacrifice your soul to become a tier vulture in the process? What's so impressive about winning with the top 2 or 3 characters who basically play the game for you? Surely it's more impressive to win in ways most other people can't or are afraid to attempt. I've always respected the players who stuck by their main from game to game regardless of tier placement and were able to perform at the top levels in spite of this way more than the other players who end up playing so similarly in their desire to win that they're almost indistinguishable from each other. Also, I personally get way more satisfaction from beating someone with a character on the losing side of tough matchup because I put in more work and was willing to be creative. But, then again, this all coming from a Johhny/Spike hybrid

[@melthework4511]

Spikes bring the best out of me as a Johnny. I’m naturally good at video games but I’m super casual so spikes help me take it to the next level.

[@hunter112SYLAR]

Which is why, IMO, it’s far more satisfying to win as a Johnny against Spikes, since you’re essentially winning because you chose to be yourself in that battle, that’s the kind of victory that makes you and your team gain real respect. At the same time, It’s Spike players that drive us to get better at the game, you should never ever underestimate them and their drive to win.

[@manuelmateo3392]

@@Mar3eck I also just like playing the cool character and doing the things I think are sweet, but playing against Spikes can be fun, however sweaty. It can be a great challenge.

[@Quicksilvir]

There's some really interesting follow up articles to this that delve deeper. One alternate interpretation is that Timmy plays for experiences (supers, SPDs, level 5s, or hype combos), Johnny plays to showcase creativity (finding tech, playing low-tiers, or finding unorthodox ways to use high-tiers), and Spike plays to showcase mastery(Aceing combos, winning tourneys, or being the best player of a specific character) . We all have a little of each type but tend to focus on one or two.

[@moncala7787]

Spike is the player most likely to “just block” or lame you out with fireballs too. The most prototypical spike I can imagine in the FGC is Daigo Umehara.

[@brandonwilbur2146]

I think Justin Wong is the prototypical Spike

[@chaotickreg7024]

Playing low teirs, that's half the reason why I'm Johnny. I like playing a low teir character that I can use to clown on people that aren't as good as me. My favorite moments in fighting games are when I pick a really silly option and I make it work out.

[@TheHeartlessAlchemist]

There is also the "Phil" type of player. He chooses complex characters without putting any effort in learning to play them, then loses and complains about "broken" characters, lag, imput drops, etc.

[@metanekkoi6606]

Sounds like a talentless and lazy Spike.

[@ponchoman6277]

“Zato is fucking garbage.” - Phil

[@TheHitchhiker]

Nice choice for the name.

[@CapitalYellowCannon]

I'd never thought I'd see anything MtG in a Sajam video but Timmy, Johnny, Spike still applies. Good shit.

[@TerraBoy34]

You would be surprised how many articles about MTG are actually very high quality AND apply to fighting games, like this one articles.starcitygames.com/premium/stuck-in-the-middle-with-bruce/

[@genzo454]

@@TerraBoy34 I don't get what he's talking about. What is a Bruce? Why does he keep mentioning how your inner Bruce influences you? Why would you ever consider sabotaging yourself? I understand that people makes excuses when things things go wrong, but how does that relate to wanting to lose?

[@TheGavinLaver]

He actually plays magic pretty often too.

[@TerraBoy34]

@@genzo454 honestly, give yourself some time to notice it. Did you ever know for sure you were gonna lose a round, completely panicked then pressed the wrong buttons, thus losing you the round? Listening to Bruce is doing that bad option knowing it's bad but thats the option that came up in your head so you do it. Bruce is a personification of when your doubt takes over your gameplan. Sometimes the Bruce option makes you win tho, so it's hard to notice.

[@zepolcin2412]

Shout out to Rudy

[@orpheos9]

This article is legendary. I love how much it has been embraced by video game and board game designers

[@Rhannmah]

This is because it touches on gaming aspects in general and the psychology of its players. The lessons here can be applied to literally any game.

[@SeanTheShinigami]

You should watch Core-A Gaming's analysis videos.

[@Cassapphic]

Ironically for me I feel tcgs are where it applies the most because as a yugioh player I find none of these really apply to me, some aspects from each sure but I couldn’t categorise myself.

[@clockpenalty]

I've noticed everyone sees themselves as a Johnny....even though they probably need someone else to tell them what category they *really* fall in.

[@Cunt143]

I don't think you need to be creative or good to be a Johnny. I think it's all about what your goals are when playing the game.

[@teddd7431]

I know I'm Spike hahaha

[@darrellkiely91]

I'm a pretty solid Timmy. I wish I were more of a Johnny, but I've definitely got a lot of Timmy.

[@Brian-rp7dj]

Possibly because assuming all three of these players do equally well in a competitive setting, people will cheer loudest for Johnny. Johnny is what every scrub accuses you of not being when you beat them with something they don't now how to deal with. Timmy and Spike are derided for being somehow less legitimate or honorable than Johnny, even though Johnny most likely got all his tech from watching some top Japanese player.

[@theundeadgentleman4998]

I'd guess that's because the other two have certain negative connotations you can easily draw from their traits; Timmy likes big numbers and big effects but people interpret that to be mindless or simple and completely void of strategy, and Spike wants to win no matter what but that can be seen as "tier-whoring" or, in certain cases, playing lame/cheap. Meanwhile, Johnny is the creative guy that wants to win his own way, there's no negative connotations with being the "smart" one or attempting to carve your own path. From how I see it, the problem is misunderstanding the three archetypes as evaluations of quality rather than what they actually are, which is essentially just what part of playing a game that someone finds the most fun.

[@doumanseiman2645]

My archetype : "Hey, the art on that card looks nice" or "Hey, I love the lore of that card" or "Damn, that card has some big bazongas".

[@michelemichienzi934]

That would be Vorthos

[@fortidogi8620]

timmy but instead of big boy its big boob

[@VerbalLearning]

@@fortidogi8620 Titty Tammy

[@leigonlord5382]

theres another mtg article where they go into that. they consider that sort of thing to be a seperate set of profiles. vorthos cares about the lore and art while melvin cares about the rules and mechanics. the original 3 are about the why, those two are about the what.

[@St.Aether]

Yuck

[@RocketSlug]

Funny, I JUST brought this up with some folks in discord. This is a classic article and it's fun seeing more crossover between my Magic world and my fighting game world.

[@mikejonesnoreally]

This is why I find myself playing more TEPPEN than Street Fighter. It wasn't intentional but it just has the best of both worlds including the great art an animations, and as someone who plays all kinds of games (even board games) I love seeing new ideas, that it includes all the different Capcom characters just kinda' sent in over the edge. :)

[@mrpinguimninja]

I always thought it was funny how I played card games and fighting games differently, 'cause while I'm a huge control player in Magic, when it comes to FGC I play rushdown fast characters with a lot of movement options, so I thought I didn't make sense. Turns out I was only mixing myself up and I'm a Johnny/Spike in both genres. I can sleep now.

[@captainvafeas9018]

After playing fighting games for half my life, I have realized that I am mainly a Timmy. Hand me an Akuma and I will ALWAYS go for a Raging Demon kill no matter the stakes in the match. Hand me Potemkin and I WILL Heavenly Potemkin Buster someone's ass at some point for that sweet sweet hype.

[@kid14346]

Looks at my mains/characters I enjoy playing: Ganondorf, Potemkin, Astaroth, Machamp, Max Brass.... guys I might be a Timmy

[@girth840]

But you are also loyal to your characters and style regardless of how good they are in the meta. I sense some Johnny inside.

[@kid14346]

@@girth840 I have picked up Byleth and Leo Whitefang recently. I like big hits and lots of pressure.

[@dianauwu1312]

Finally someone who recognizes Pokken and Arms!

[@kid14346]

@@dianauwu1312 ARMS is good and i will always be sad how Nintendo dropped support

[@crimsonwizahd2358]

Me as a Bowser main: "Offers the fellow heavy main the epic handshake between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Carl Weathers in Predator "

[@RCCrisp]

I think it's also interesting that the two aesthetic profiles Melvin (people who enjoy the mechanical design on a gameplay level) and Vorthos (people obsessed with back story and lore) are probably easily found in the FGC. But those also don't factor into competitive play.

[@egebamyasi2929]

I think the "Timmy" equivalent in fighting games isn't big dudes but characters with the coolest moves. So many people instantly flock to the "cool" characters only to realize later that other characters fit their playstyle more.

[@amiablereaper]

Yeah absolutely, if there's a character who's a robot girl I'm gonna at least try her and hopefully main her.

[@Masque1419]

I kind of play the Johnny/Spike version of that, where I pick a top their when I’m first playing the game, and then (usually) drop them for someone I like better

[@IronicHavoc]

Cool is kind of an ambiguous criteria because Johnny stuff could also be "cool"

[@tasseiviews2947]

Yeah, I agree, as a kid I used to love the big blast Cyclops and Ironman moves in X-men and Marvel. And Jin's robot punch, that was the best.

[@josh___something]

The timmy is more about the flashy cool stuff. In magic, it's represented by BIG BOIS because they either kill someone in two attacks, or because the card causes a large impact. In fighting game terms, I think the timmy would be the one that fishes for moves. They've 'won' the match when they get to either land the move that does 75% of the Opp's lifebar in one swing (even if it leaves them basically dead after) or they land the really cool looking super that has a unique animation that plays if you kill with it.

[@MisterAnimann]

The term "Timmy" has been a thing in fighting games for a while and I've never really identified as one, but when you said Paul Death Fist it instantly clicked. I play primarily anime but I have a friend who plays a lot of Lucky Chloe in Tekken 7 and one of my favorite things to do in fighting games is to pick Paul into him and stuff whatever stupid-ass flippy dippy bullshit he's trying to do with Death Fist. Then I realized... "Hey, wait a minute, I play Gord... and Azrael... and Sol/Slayer". I think the Timmy in fighting games is defined not by "big dudes" in a character design sense, but by big damage and big dumb moves. I was a little confused when you used FighterZ as an example because I don't play any of the big dudes in that game, but I do play Hit, who looks cool and primarily plays neutral around one button. Sleeper Timmy character. Granted, I do think I have a _bit_ of Johnny in there too, but I think most fighting games players are apt to. Learning is satisfying, and the genre requires such a time investment that some experimentation is natural. Also I do play Green/White in Magic, so there's that.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Big Stompy Green Men WaAAGH!

[@clockpenalty]

You're right. The cards are the moves, not the characters. You aren't a Timmy just because you play gief, you're a Timmy because you try to land big massive ridiculous moves that do crazy damage and look amazing. Paul death fist is a perfect example. Grief SPD/FAB etc are also good examples but more surprising is the fact that demon is as well. A Timmy would want to land demon any chance he gets, hoarding meter, while a spike would play akuma optimally and not hesitate to use meter when he needs to.

[@sanko111]

@@clockpenalty I literally switched to Kage at season start for that 1 air-to-air MP combo that does like 340.

[@kylenguyen7371]

Then you've got Miguel in Tekken 5 or 6 with that instant K.O. "walk up like a boss" move. It's slow, it's telegraphed, it gives plenty of opportunity for the opponent to interrupt him, but if he lands that one attack then it's all over.

[@ragingtyga]

Timmy and timmy tactics are also known in the FGC as "Unga Bunga"

[@blakedavis3400]

"Nah man, I actually think my character is top 3" lmao I've said that so many times I'm such a Johnny/Spike

[@RandomGuy010]

I've said my character is the best for 10 years, from back when she was considered bottom tier, and every time a new tier list consensus comes out she crawls her way up and now she is "officially" top tier (not quite S tier).

[@BobbyxZx]

yeah, the timmy, johnny, spike article basically instantly became mtg lore. we still use this in reference to the game.

[@superarisu]

"You don't mind playing....Yoshimitsu" Call me out, why don't you. Geez. OK, I'm a Johnny.

[@KevinFrenchpiisceiss]

I didn’t think MTG would carry over to fighting games. Makes me happy as they’re my 2 big hobbies

[@arootube]

It sounds like Timmy is just a Johnny that lives without shame.

[@Unpetraccable]

I always like applying the Timmy/Johnny/Spike formula to anything, and in fighting games It definitely works!

[@atsunymphae2723]

Thanks for the fascinating video, Sajam 🙂 It's nice to hear similarities drawn between the passionate player base of Magic and the FGC. -- It's interesting... I think I've always considered Johnny and Timmy one in the same - since they're picking characters based on what gives them the most joy. -- I'm excited to revisit Core-A's heart, mind, and body breakdown as well!

[@simonchoi7141]

As a crazy magic and fighting game fan, this absolutely applies to both fighting games and mtg. Also of course love your vids Sajam.

[@im_dari7614]

this has remained one of my favourite video of yours since i first saw it like 3 years ago, good shit jammington

[@FiveStringC]

what can i say i like turning my cards sideways and twirling my stick

[@maple.leaves.]

Mindblowing to realize TJS is so old. I learned about it over 20 years ago from some random competitive Pokémon guide on GameFAQs, and it's still a useful tool for understanding games. Maro's decades of writing on MTG design and development feels extremely slept on -- whether or not you agree with his choices, it's genuinely a massive boon that he's written so comprehensively about his decisions and attitudes regarding his work on MTG, both to players and to game creators alike. Some researchers would kill for that amount of source material.

[@Thalanox]

It's been a while since I read that article. Thanks for reminding me of it. Bookmarked, saved an offline copy, and printed to pdf.

[@Soapy_Papoose]

Definitely a Timmy/Johnny. I've been playing fighting games for 25+ years and I've maybe spent two week in the lab across all games. Just give me flashy moves and let me win with a super. I rarely win 😂. Spd only Gief here, and Sagat. Zooey/Ferry, Noob/Jade/Shao Khan, Mokujin, Miss Fortune/Eliza/Cerebellum, Ky/Faust, Tager main. All over the place.

[@somethingsomething9006]

I spend at least a full week in training mode before I go online with any character. That way I just blast through ranks in the blink of an eye and stop when I have more to learn.

[@kaitengiri]

One thing that this video doesn't really talk about with the "Timmy" cards, and I imagine this is because it's on Wizard's of the Coast's website and would be a little damning nowadays, is that Timmy Cards are actually an insider term they use for cards that look good on the outside, but more savvy players will recognize that they are useless. In other words, they intentionally design cards that look cool but are worthless. The primary reason for this is to reward system mastery. So that players can sift through them to find the good cards and feel rewarded for them when they play them. When you look at the description of the Timmy cards in that light, the article almost outright calls the Timmy player dumb. Almost.

[@Bladieblah]

That's really cool to know

[@destroyermaker]

Nah, the same guy says straight up they design bad cards partly to separate the good players from the bad

[@Eaode]

i mean wanting to use the big cool cards even if they're not good is basically the same thing as playing low tiers, right? low-tier players aren't dumb for refusing to cast aside inferior tools. The inferior tools are there for our use, for better or worse. And sometimes they're more fun or expressive than the high-powered ones. And sometimes the difference isn't that big--Falcon in melee is a super stylish bombastic character that's still high tier. He struggles against the best characters in the game but for a small stoop in power level you get a whooooole lot of fun and crazy moments, flashy combos, etc.

[@mariofrye6498]

I'm definitely a Johnny/spike. The majority of players seem like spikes/timmys. In my my experience

[@T2Designgaming]

funny, but this is a very johnny comment :)

[@kirazira7468]

Haha I agree.. and consider myself a Johnny/spike.. perhaps it is a very Johnny thing to say...

[@Kilvoctu]

@@T2Designgaming "No one is as creative and innovative as I am" -every johnny player

[@iBloodxHunter]

@@kirazira7468 lol, us Johnny/Spike's are the worst.

[@RedOphiuchus]

I think you correlated it perfect except for Timmy. It's the big creatures but flashy abilities like, "control target player on their next turn", "draw your whole deck", "play all of your spells for free". In fighting games it's, big characters with strong and slow hits but also stuff like Elizabeth in P4AU having two instant kill moves and massive spells. It's Samus' Charge Shot in Smash. It's Cervantes' pistol in Soul Calibur (really must unblockable moves in that game).

[@dredre0702]

"Why are there this many peas near me????" lmao

[@deadfr0g]

On the same day this video was posted, I won a Kyanta 2 beginners’ tournament by picking a top-tier character named Spike. Sweet.

[@tidus94]

Don’t know what mixture of Timmy Johnny I am but I don’t think I’ll ever be a Spike. Playing the characters I love is too important for me.

[@Rhannmah]

You got a lot of Vorthos (players motivated by aesthetics/lore)

[@nathannjh]

I’m a Timmy/Spike, I pick the character I like the most, but I play to win 10/10 games

[@Freakattaker]

@@Rhannmah The character I pick is very much aesthetic/lore, but my playstyle feels like a mix of Spike and Timmy (I go for mashy supers a ton, but I do look inward for improvement and try to win my best with the character I'm playing. I also don't enjoy playing a character if they're too weak [only matters if I'm at a level where I can appreciate that difference. I'm not there at all in FGs lol])

[@joelbell6075]

I'm a very technical type of Timmy that likes to win every time, so I study how to make my big character the very best so I can smash as often as possible.

[@Chowdizzle]

Nothing like a good bit of MTG/FGC crossover. Love seeing it on both sides. LSV was talking recently about how he was a CVS2 tournament player back in the day. I love that guy, I wish he took part in the FGC but I understand why he sticks to MTG. He would be such an amazing personality on the mic for the FGC.

[@nottobay6768]

I am I Jonhy/spike and I never connected my affinity to play weird toolbox decks to playing imput gimmicks the character especially if they have lots of tools.

[@DeepCDiva]

I love that you're bringing this terminology to the FGC! For anyone new to these concepts, keep in mind they're about what motivates and engages players and their objectives, it's more about WHY people play, and you may have very different players that share a category. Both DotoDoya and Aris have a very Timmy side, but Doto is more about his enthusiasm for big, exciting boardstates (Think of his "easy ToD" videos or his insistence on very unsafe round-start reads) while Aris rants about online sucking and reminiscing about arcades are closer to Timmy's more social approach to fighting games. And they dont even necessarily play the biggest characters in the roster.

[@DeepCDiva]

In fact framing Aris bashing online as him saying "Online doesn't bring out one of the aspects of the game i find most enjoyable" sounds much less insane and old-man-ish. Also, I know, great 200-word essay there, amigo.

[@MrDrumStikz]

A Tekken analysis of the archetypes: Timmy: Gigas and Jack players Johnny: Lei King and Yoshi players Spike: Steve and Fahkumram players T/J: Marduk and bear players T/S: Fahkumram and Paul players J/S: Mishimaplayers All: Bryan players Obviously, these are generalizations. I'm a Lei player who leans more Spike than Johnny

[@djhero0071]

Bruh, hearing the description for Johnny, my immediate thought was “Maximilian Dood is a Johnny” lmao.

[@SprinkleBunn]

nah he a timmy, he likes hitting big shit. or a mix of timmy/johnny

[@Casino220]

@@SprinkleBunn max is an even split for sure.

[@rin2012]

Definitely a johnny/timmy hybrid. Love being creative and using complicated characters, and i get a lot of fun outta hitting people with super long combos even if i end up not winning the game.

[@pierslecompte2951]

Timmy/Johnny guy right here. Love playing characters with huge buttons and damage, but with the weirdest character tracts.

[@BenjiCakingPanda]

mtg has so much good stuff for other games outside of mtg im really glad you brought up the timmy johnny and spike great vid

[@alexisagoblin7417]

As a former competitive magic the gather grinder for years I enjoyed this video very much.

[@feffle1051]

When's MTG with Sajam?

[@timothyhall4794]

I'm all for it. He's taught me so much about fighting games, I'd love to chip in and help him learn about Magic.

[@danielspencer5908]

Don't know about Magic, but he said he's playing Legends of Runeterra

[@soulstrikestorm137]

Moste with the god tier thumbnail as always

[@JFLunch]

I'm a Johnny Spike because I pick what I feel like is strong and works. Yea I take into account the meta and top player opinions, but that is only one factor into picking a character. I want to express myself without sacrificing viability and strength.

[@benlucas3151]

In my head I'm Spike. In my heart I'm Vorthos. As an aside I want to say that even beyond this article and such, TCGs and FGs are actually mad similar (way more than people might expect) and I've honestly gotten better at each by playing the other.

[@mikejonesnoreally]

I think you're right and I've said this before myself. I have been really good at a couple of card games. (VS. and NetRunner) and always somewhere in the middle at fighting games, but in TEPPEN I'm A Rank and may hit Champion soon. :)

[@graefx]

That was a great video but all I wanna know is what's the deal with Steve and peas.

[@Xauching]

the peas mason, what do they mean

[@tehjargonz0r]

he doesn't like them

[@102eustess6]

I’m late to this vid, but something I think is cool is that I think if you can figure out your ratio of T, J and S, it also gives you insight on how you specifically can improve in these games. Like a Timmy might see the most improvement by putting more time into analysis than a Johnny would. While Johnny would find success by trying to focus on having more balls to the walls fun like a Timmy would. And a T/J/S would find success by focusing on the balance of analysis, fun and experimentation or something.

[@keo_bas]

The struggle as a johnny/spike is real.

[@r.c.beringuela2426]

Eyemusician is the IRL FGC Johnny.

[@ze_chooch]

I love your content. Thank you for making your stuff!

[@lancelot717]

Huh. Was not expecting these two of my hobbies to intersect. Pretty cool.

[@KaijiSan4]

I'm definitely a Johnny Timmy. Picks niche characters, training modes best gimmick methods of beating opponents, care less about winning and more about doing cool stuff while gaining more experience. -Street fighter: played Guy for big dumb damage off his final fight chain and his command grab super -P4A: Played Naoto for SMP loops -GG: played Slayer for BBU and counter hit shenanigans -Uni: played Akatsuki for Fireball IW glitch and corner 6C starter combos

[@OlaAremu]

I love it when assorted competitive gaming communities combine like this. I'm a big Yugioh Guy first and foremost but I love me some Smash or UnderNight

[@BiFoxxo]

I’m definitely more of a Timmy/Johnny. I like playing the more intricate characters with setups and somewhat high execution (like Chaos in UNIST or Arbiter in KI), but being flashy is really fun too. Like, if I can hit an astral finish in Blazblue, I’m gonna go for it 9/10 times. Even if it doesn’t work. I do resonate a bit with Spike in that I’m very competitive, but I want to lessen that side of myself and focus more on the fun of the game and improving at it.

[@timothyhall4794]

Ah shit, Sajam talking Magic theory? I can die happy.

[@BigBoss69420]

Yeah this is really something.

[@MageKirby]

Timmy Gang Represent!

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Big Stompy Bois, yisss! Stomp-stomp!

[@kholdkhaos64ray11]

Ha Ha command grab go scoop

[@bio0link]

Must tuck in....

[@LtSprinkulz]

I'm all three of these. I want to play a big bonk character, but do it stylishly, and I play to win at all costs. AKA "Average Potemkin Enjoyer."

[@zachw2538]

I'm a Johnny, I always liked figuring out characters and how to use their toolset to deal with the situations provided by the opponent.

[@5izzy557]

Sajam ALWAYS gets me to laugh. He's a legend.

[@Fleetw00d]

Timmy/Johnny here. I love smacking fools around with characters with lots of different options that I can suit to fit the next opponent I find. I like fighting stronger opponents than myself, and I don’t always have to win, but if I can put you in the schmix for a round and make you appreciate my style, it was worth it.

[@abrahamkailiponi6394]

Sajam you should look into the Vorthos/Mel type of player that some have reasoned should be included alongside the 3 types mentioned above. Now Maro (Mark Rosewater) says that these two types are not player types but rather two major profiles on how people appreciate the beauty of a game seperate from actually playing the game. A Vorthos cares about art and lore, so peoeple who bug you about who is in a relationship with who in a game, or talks about how sick the design of a particular character is. A Cosplayer, people who do lore videos, and character loyalists who choose a particular character simply because of the artistic side of a character is a Vorthos. Mel are game mechanic gurus, they are the guy that appreciate a game for it's mechanics, these are the guys that question whether meterless invincible DP's should be a thing in Street Fighter 5, or debate on whether Guilty Gear Strive "feels" like a guilty gear. Mel's appreciate, the mechanics of a game and make their game playing decisions based on their personal criteria on what constitutes good mechanics. Someone who won''t play Granblue because "simple special inputs are whack" might be a Mel. Now Maro seperates these types from the previous 3 because he reasons that all of us are a Vorthos or a Mel, however others have argued that there are many people out there who play ONLY for the artistic side of a game and are not motivated for the same reasons as the above 3. In other words a Vorthos who is not a timmy/johnny/spike can buy a game, play it, and love it just because the character design is strong. The final argument being that both Mel and Vorthos need to be accounted for when designing content for a game. For instance, people who hate Sindel because she is a blatantly evil character unlike previous iterations of herself(Vorthos), or those who might feel sleighed if Ken were redesigned into a non Shoto Character (Mel). Anyway I am of the opinion that Vorthos in particular is a player type that stands alongside the 3 others and should constitute the 4th category of a player that needs to be designed towards. article in the link: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/vorthos-and-mel-2015-08-31

[@MrAgentIncognito]

There are players that pick characters based solely on how they look. Vorthos is definitely it's own category.

[@michelemichienzi934]

I believe Mel is worth of being the 5th. It's someone who would refuse to play something because they dislike the core design in playstyle of a character or vice versa play something just because it's mechanically interesting. It's true that it could cross the Johnny territory, but to me they are pretty different concept. Or maybe I'm biased since I think of me as a Mel/Johnny.

[@Rhannmah]

Solo Vorthos argument aside (i think that's kind of wrong because someone ONLY motivated by the artistic side wouldn't even play the game, probably just watch it), Mel is a very important archetype in fighting games, i think. I would never play Tekken 7, Smash, Street Fighter, Injustice or Mortal Kombat because of their system mechanics, and I'm sure a ton of the FGC feels the same towards other games as well. Mel feels absolutely pivotal, actually, when I think about it.

[@abrahamkailiponi6394]

@@Rhannmah while I agree with some of what you say I would like to point out that MK 9 brought a ton of people into the game by amping up their Vor game, Battlefield 5 alienated their player base by thinking they could take a revisionist approach to history. In other words they ignored the needs of their Vorthos player base and got burned. Their are tangible benifits to catering to and designing towards Vorthos players.

[@abrahamkailiponi6394]

@@Rhannmah Oh Some other points, your idea that Vor's don't play is extremely short sighted, most of them in fact do at the very minimum buy the game, and more often than not are more motivated to buy cosmetics than most. Second I gave examples of Vor players but True Vor is extremely rare, but I would also argue that the vast majority of the casual player base are some degree of Vor, and we all know where the real money comes from, the casuals.

[@altioramaar3264]

Good thing I love both MtG and FGC. I'm squarely Timmy/Johnny. T.Hawk pokes and misdirection is a tough but a fun challenge. The occasional Thunderslam or 720 is just extremely satisfying. And working hard with the limited toolset of Q can be almost frustrating, but landing a robbery Total Destruction is knee-slappingly sublime. My homebrew deck history is all midrange or tempo-aggro. ⚡

[@eataneraser]

I’ve got the brainlessness of Timmy but the demand to win uniquely of Johnny.

[@Valon129]

I think I am a Timmy/Spike, when I start a new game I always pick the character(s) who have the best cool/high tier ratio. don't care too much if they are hard or not.

[@Dontjudgeme420]

That article is also famous because it's game dev knowledge too and has some behind the scenes psychology of each type of player. I'm a 10yr MTG vet and lifelong fg fan

[@Dontjudgeme420]

Also I'm a Timmy/Johnny. My Jodah Ultimatums deck is a perfect example

[@thrillhouse4151]

This is the nerdiest thing ever, using MTG terminology in regards to fighting games! I love it! It took me a while to realize but I’m a Timmy/Johnny, I have the 15/15 worm in my Commander deck, I like the goofy characters in fighting games just cause they look cool.

[@Demyx306]

I'm a Timmy because I wanna command grab and experience BIG DOPAMINE.

[@Upsetkiller456]

I’m a Timmy/johnny for sure. I like seeing big gross bonk moves but I also like to dive into the characters

[@MarcelVincent]

This is exactly why I respect sajam and his opinions..

[@HuwgeGrin]

I love this article and have referenced it several times in my working life. Love the application to fighting games! Ultimate Johnny/Spike: Xian in USF4. I mean Gen winning evo... props.

[@Trypetagenalis]

I am very Johnny, but with a splash of Spike.

[@almightyscrimblo]

I'm definitely a Timmy/Johnny kinda guy. I play cool characters that can do cool stuff but also, if I want them to, I can just be like "Haha character go B R R R R R R"

[@topdamagewizard]

Remember that part in Indiana Jones when the dude is swinging the sword and Indy just shoots him? Classic Timmy vs Spike.

[@cycy8699]

damnn

[@wac411]

I'm a Timmy for real. But it depends on how much overall fun I'm having with the game in order for me to start adding elements of Johnny in my set.

[@heykenzo4284]

Oh crap... I was totally thinking "Ah, I must be a Johnny/Timmy" - But, then, you went ahead and call out the Majin Buu players in the Johnny/Spike and I felt SO DAMN CALLED OUT XD I don't usually go too competitive because I don't have enough time to practice and I have that Timmy impatience to boot, so I basically balance myself out with the Johnny inspiration. But I would be playing to win because I don't want my sweet team and favorite character to have their asses handed to them by the annoying top tiers - So I built a viable team with point and anchor that have synergy with Majin Buu just because I love hitting the dope slams, flips, fat tosses resets, and big heavy buttons. I love every second of team building so I'm definitely the bootleg avatar of the trio.

[@okanut]

Lovin this crossover content

[@coreyrachar9694]

This is rather interesting. I'd have to say I'm a Johnny/spike hybrid for sure, but I'm only spike in the sense that I'm really hard on myself for losing, and I always push to improve and do my best. This leads to a lot of frustration as primarily a Johnny player who likes to practice really sweet, complicated and stylish stuff to win but fall flat on the near perfect execution it sometimes requires. Don't even get me started about online play and sadly it's primarily what I play T.T

[@coreyrachar9694]

Thats also why GG is my favorite series, because almost every character is a Johnny character outside of SOL if you ask me.

[@tatzooism]

Just binging some content on my lunch time and found this. I might be a Johnny due to only playing characters that are cool and have some options that I consider fun. I do get salty from losing a lot, but having fun just hitting some strings/fully blocking mixups and getting my turn to drop a combo is enough for me.

[@fatherdex8174]

Goddamit moste, Johnny: "That's venom". Fucking killed me on the inside

[@ba1ahad]

I'm a Johnny/Spike. I'm very competitive but I choose who I like most (for their appearance or how their moveset looks), lab them for hours, and try to make them work on a competitive level no matter how hard I gotta grind. It usually works out pretty well with people not knowing the match up against my odd pick(s)

[@SmashCentralOfficial]

I think I'm a balance of all 3. Sometimes I like the unga bunga shit, I like to be creative and express myself and do cool shit, but I also want to compete and get better.

[@psybanatheplatypus3184]

As far as the Core-A gaming player types and the Timmy/Johnny/Spike types are concerned, Brain/Heart/Body can be said to be a player's preferred manner of execution and interaction with game mechanics within each match, whereas Timmy/Johnny/Spike are motivations and mindsets about the game or characters that may broadly influence playstyle.

[@kholdkhaos64ray11]

I almost cried at the first player description because I felt so attacked. Me doing 50% with 1-2 moves after my opponent does a whole sequence to do the same is the greatest joke in the history of mankind.

[@OberynTheRedViper]

Don't feel bad. Timmy's make up most of the player base. I'm one and I've been playing SF since 91

[@OMGsupershy]

Combining two things I love... this ish is lit!

[@SivartAuhsoj]

Timmy: Itazan Johnny: Marlinpie Spike: Tokido Timmy/Johnny: KaneBlueRiver Timmy/Spike: Snake Eyez Johnny/Spike: Xian

[@AlluMan96]

I can tell that I am definitely a Timmy/Johnny. I'm not the biggest lab monster and I like playing guys with big buttons. However, to me the "styling" is all about reads, prediction and conditioning. While other Johnnies get a kick when they find new setups or tools to enable some sick-ass combo, I get that feeling when I discover a player-tendency that I then set off to exploit. I love playing characters with counters and moves that reward on punish, because I like that sensation of making the opponent feel silly. Then the opponent becomes aware of it, adapts and that's where the true fun begins, as the battle of the minds commence. Then after 15 sets of big braining with Hakumen, I can always just pick Azrael or Makoto and push buttons. When it comes to Magic though, I am pure Johnny. The first deck someone tailor-made for me in MTG was a -1/-1 deck. Fresh off the heels of Hour of Devastation, I immediately became enamored with the playstyle, but I hyper-fixated on one simple element of it, a single card I wanted to love so much. That was Nest of Scarabs. Getting small minions off of the -1/-1s was so satisfying, but it needed more spice, because I couldn't just win with a bunch of 1/1 weenies. I started to research, found big dudes like Ormendahl or Voldaren Pariah, big guys that required sacrifices, started splashing green with Hapatra and Wickerbough Elder for some teching or just went full ham with my red-splash variant, using Scorpion god and Everlasting Torment to just overhwhelm the opponent with endless penalties while my army of scarabs grew ever-stronger.

[@j.vanguard56]

Get yourself a main with Timmy specials, Spike normals, and Johnny mixups.

[@Ryodakun]

I'm a Spike/Johnny. I play relatively normal mid tier characters and try to play them in a unique way and win with it. I hate losing but I don't hate it enough to just go for top tiers. I wanna dominate with my weird mid tier pick and play in a way that will blow my opponents mind.

[@spaced321]

I'm a timmy because I pick my main based on aesthetics and personality, and a Johnny because once I choose I fuck around in training for way too damn long. A lab rat waifu warrior.

[@Hotashi]

the life of a johnny starring hotashi

[@morenorristhannorris]

Definitely J/S. My current favorite Magic Deck wins often, but it wins by having multiple card affects stacking together to kill you with 60 4/4 flying soldiers with trample and deathtouch. That said, I’d rather lose with a cool deck than win with a boring deck/character

[@flareflareon]

Exactly me. I would play a top tier deck in modern/pioneer but not like, with companions or Jund/Boros aggro (which is most of the list already but eh)

[@moncala7787]

You read the updated version of the article. The original is close to 20 years old.

[@Eggroll3s]

I'm a Johnny Spike by far. I adore training mode and lab like a bitch but I also main a character like F-Warc in melty blood who's not the most common but helps me express who I am and how I play. The difference between me and other players of my character is that I will bend a character to my will instead of bending my will around a character.

[@krsnathakker8536]

I’m def a Johnny with a Timmy gimmick in there somewhere and an imperceptible sprinkle of Spike.

[@Diveji]

Timmy in 2021: Heavenly... Potempkin... BUSTER!