Surface Pro 11 - Is it any good for Music Production (updated)

There's a new Surface Pro in town and this one is running Windows 11 ARM (although you wouldn't know it) and so comes with all sorts of challenges for the Surface Pro music maker. I highlight what those problems might be and talk about why the outlook is pretty positive but it's still early days.
This is an update to the video I made yesterday (now deleted) when more information presented itself which was important to include.
No one pays me to make videos, but you could support my video-making with a dollar or two via Patreon or by shopping via the affiliate links below:
► / robinvincent - now featuring advert-free videos
Check out everything I do on synths, modular, DIY, Surface Pro, music tech software and hardware
► authory.com/RobinVincent
► MoltenMusicTechnology.com
► linktr.ee/MoltenModular
► / @moltenmusictech
Affiliate links where I can get a few pennies for the things you buy:
► Thomann Music Store (UK/EU): www.thomann.de/de/index.html?...
► Perfect Circuit (US): tinyurl.com/molten-PerfectCir...
► Rhodes Plugins: www.rhodesmusic.com/#a_aid=Molten
► Sweetwater Sound (US): imp.i114863.net/molten-sweetw...
► Clockface Modular (Japan/Int): clockfacemodular.com?sca_ref=2404548.CriESQgSrE
DistroKid 7% discount off your first year's membership super special Molten VIP link:
► distrokid.com/vip/Molten

[@FL_STUDIO]

Always nice to see a Robin video on Windows performance - Early indications from our users are that Microsoft has done an (almost) equivalently great job on their emulation as Apple did with Rosetta 2. Rosetta 2 was not perfect and there were quite a lot of issues initially. It's true drivers are probably the major issue as many legacy devices won't have updates. OTOH, we have high hopes for this incarnation of Windows ARM and are working on native support. The good news is all the work we and others have done to support Apple ARM will be reusable and shorten development times. No ETA.

[@MoltenMusicTech]

Great information, thank you imageline, keep up the good work

[@alidisco]

It's great (really great!) to hear a manufacturer come out and say they are actively working to support this architecture on windows. Let's hope others follow your lead and make this the device a lot of us hoped the M4 Ipad Pro would be: a portable touchscreen computer, powerful enough to work on all the time, with decent battery life but without the restrictions of a dumbed down operating system.

[@lcpumpkin]

Thanks Robin. Found this interesting. Very much enjoyed the finger drumming.

[@bmbell71]

Thanks for the video Robin. I've actually had some experience with the Surface Pro 11, and I returned it to get the Surface Pro 10, for exactly the reasons you mention in the video. Let me first say some good things about the Surface Pro 11. I was using Cubase 13, and the performance of the application itself was excellent,, most of the plugins and VI's worked flawlessly and surprisingly efficiently in x64 emulation. If you were doing EDM production with limited use of periferals and just using the built in audio for playback, the snapdragon x might work for you. If you plan on using any audio interface of midi controllers, the pro 11 wont work for you. I wish that Microsoft had relased the 10 and 11 together and not made the 10 only as a buisness class machine available direct from Microsoft (although there are some on Amazon in the US, not sure for you all in the UK). The so called "Copilot+ PC" is a designation being used for all windows machines being released with processors with an AI neural processor onboard., from all the OEMs. This includes the new Intel Core Ultra chips which have a built in NPU. I am very curious for music production what AI might have to bring to the table. However for the purposes of your viewers, I'll just leave it that for now unless you want to do everything on the Surface with little or no use of external hardware, skip the Surface Pro 11 for now. If you can get your hands on a Surface Pro 10, I highly recommend the device. In addition to performance improvements over the Surface Pro 9, there are some much needed improvements on battery power and heating/cooling issues (unfortunately not as much as the Surface Pro 11). Cheers, and once again thanks for all you wonderful knowledge and insight!

[@MoltenMusicTech]

Useful information, thank you

[@BartdeBoisblanc]

4:30 Yes what you are talking about is the hardware abstraction and drivers for Window OS

[@dEadnAstyrEcords]

Great advice. It's always best to wait, and let others guinea pig things.

[@roszyknuke]

I see more ARM powered devices coming in the future, but it will take some time before there are enough in the wild to make it worth developing drivers. Maybe in a few years.

[@PWMaarten]

I used asio4all drivers for 15+ years on my previous PC. To be fair, I only record, add some effects and mix in the computer and I didn’t change much in and/or around the system.

[@ModulatorX]

Cubase 13 works ok with Steinberg's own built-in ASIO driver. Since it's all emulated and not native ARM yet, performance of course isn't stellar, but it works for smaller projects. I tested this with a Surface Laptop 7th edition (Snapdragon X Elite, 16GB RAM). Latency with the Steinberg ASIO driver is 10ms Input/20ms Output when disabling the Input Device in the driver's setting. Ableton 11 can also be installed, while 12 is blocking installation on ARM for now. Roland Cloud Manager and their VSTs work as well. The biggest issue is of course no drivers for Audio Interfaces yet. Time will tell if devs jump on the hype. Fingers crossed!

[@MoltenMusicTech]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I'd heard that Ableton Live 12 actually looks for an x86 processor for some reason - doh! Useful information - thanks!

[@Gilles2010]

I don’t comment on your videos much, but I really enjoy watching them … have a nice 4th of July and good luck with the elections. I hope whatever side you’re on wins, if you’re on the good side that is 😂👍

[@MoltenMusicTech]

Thanks mate!

[@atom_jack]

I read somewhere that Ableton has no future plans to support Live for Windows on ARM

[@MoltenMusicTech]

Live 12 apparently looks for an x86 processor so won't run on anything else. Live 11, however, will install on Windows ARM. They probably have a reason but it's a little bit strange.

[@andor2222]

Hi! What is the name of the DAW you use? Thanks

[@MoltenMusicTech]

I use a mixture of Presonus Studio One, Bitwig Studio and Ableton Live… and sometimes Reason.

[@jamesdegriz]

Ive heard from a reliable source that MS are making a complete dumpster fire of development for these. Strongly sugggest holding off for at least a year.

[@kenfuller9907]

What was wrong with the surface 2 and the surface RT?

[@MoltenMusicTech]

I never looked at anything before the SP3. RT was just the worst version of ARM Windows that wasn’t compatible with anything outside the Win8 store…. I think

[@kenfuller9907]

@@MoltenMusicTech I had an rt and I’ve currently got a 2 pro lol

[@kenfuller9907]

I had betamax too 😂

[@MoltenMusicTech]

Of course you did :D

[@PWMaarten]

So the simplest solution is that windows updates their native driver to see more I/O.

[@MoltenMusicTech]

I think that because WASAPI is a generic driver it has to work with a thousand difference audio systems on a thousand different computers, which means it will always have built in safety buffers to cope with the crappiness of OEM implimentation and prioritse uninterupted Netflix playback - it has to work with everything on every system. A specialised ASIO driver only has to work with one thing, on one form of very standardised connection and so will always perform better and be more consistently stable.

[@PWMaarten]

@@MoltenMusicTech fair point. In my very limited understanding of software, drivers and such, I could imagine a system that works on the basis you describe and have a “search for more I/O” button.

[@Soundwrecker]

Quick! Sell your intel stock!

[@thehandoflenin]

The answer to everyone's question is No. The Surface Pro is not that great for running a studio. It's ok for an old plugin or a dedicated bit of software. I'd say if you really want to go down the PC route, best processor you can get, best memory you can get, biggest HD you can get, or get a MAC.

[@MoltenMusicTech]

Yeah, not the point. The surface has other qualities in form and interaction that make it interesting. I’ve been running my studio on one since the surface pro 3. It’s great. You can do more, obviously, on a huge desktop machine, if that’s your bag.

[@KentanLenneg]

My surface pro 11 has 1 Terabyte and 32 Gb of RAM. I’ve never had such a powerful PC in my entire life. My test project has 32 tracks, all analogic (guitars, drums, hardware keyboards, voices..), each with at least a compressor VST, an equaliser VST , and a sophisticated reverb. Some has modulation and delay too. Tell me I can't do music with my Surface... I practice music production on my computer since 1998, when Logic Pro was running only on Windows..

[@thehandoflenin]

​@KentanLenneg this is true but (I've taken MS and Apple Prices here) Surface 11 with spec you state 2k1, Macbook Pro little less in memory 2k5. Surface only has 2 port Pro more. Not checked PC laptop prices. Size the Surface is great. I do use an old surface to run my mixer which mainly is used as extra inputs and routing to rack effects.

[@MoltenMusicTech]

Awesome

[@setaihedron]

I personally get tired of people who don't seem to understand the difference between a tablet with a touch screen and a laptop or a big desktop box. These are completely different hardware form factors.