What A Fence Post Set In Gravel Is Really Like

[@jhansen55j]

Thank you for the great videos. They confirm what I’ve learned over the years building round pressure-treated post fences with corral board on my property here along the Central Coast of CA since the early ‘80’s. I’m on an ancient sand dune so sandy soil. Over the years I’ve learned to just tamp the sand back around the post instead of using concrete. Eventually sets up firm. What I’ve learned, as pointed out in your video, is the pressure treatment is next to worthless over time under ground level. The last thing I have time for is replacing posts. I now buy a Copper Nathenate product at HD (Copper Green, about $25) then dilute it with diesel fuel and paint the lower portions of the post (or whole) several times and let it dry before use. Seems to help the post last considerably longer.

[@evictioncarpentry2628]

Gravel is all we use in Canada. 1/4 to 3/4 crush. The frost line is 6+ feet down so you can't dig a post that deep to pour concrete below frost (you can it just doesnt make sense to do it) We dig 4 feet down and the gravel prevents post heaving from freeze/thaw cycles.

[@fredhubbard7210]

My dad was a civil engineer. He insisted on full round cedar posts (as you suggest elsewhere.) For this part, he tamped with larger rocks (say melon sized) and native soil. Tamping in the rocks made it easy to get plumb--and if tamped in near the surface, made it super stable. Longer posts do not transfer the movement to the bottom of the hole. The primary resistance to movement (moment or torque) is near the surface. Moreover, using fines, (as in post II) will settle snugging up the post over time. Next summer it will be more stable. Regardless, what kind of wind do you get in Wyoming? It must be pretty intense if it is comparable to a young, fit, stud (like yourself) leaning into it like that!!!

[@stevegillespie6424]

I've set huindreds of power line poles (35ft to 100ft tall) 6ft to 12ft deep, using 3/4" road base gravel. It is heavily mixed with fines. It compacts very well (we use hydraulic tamps), and really defends against leaning very well. I would not be afraid to build a fence line using the same 3/4" road base, so long as it gets tamped appropriately. Tampoing the backfill properly/adequately is probably the most important aspect.

[@Hedonistic0Frog]

That was my first thought, if you just use straight gravel there's large gaps. If you add in smaller rocks it fills those gaps, and with sand it fills most of what's left so it shouldn't be able to shift as much.

[@stevegillespie6424]

@@Hedonistic0Frog The 'fines' (sandy powdery mix) in the mix, really helps to lock everything together, when tamped adequately.

[@Levi-tm4gl]

In my experience posts always rot off about 4-6 inches into the ground. That happens to be where most of the organic life in the soil presides so I’ve been tamping with native fill and then the last 8-10 inches I fill with fine gravel to keep the organic layer of the soil away form the post.

[@sixmilsix]

My dad who passed in 2017 at 90 used to say about a post tamped with dirt, "boys, if you do it right It'll be like it grew there". Of course now days we'd be talking to someone like you about driving them. 🙂

[@psoren423]

Love watching your shows. Wish yall had a Texas office. Even just for the testing/entertainment videos like this.

[@jcsftwre]

I always learn something new when I watch your videos!

[@SWiFence]

Best comment yet! Thanks!

[@turb0b0ytim]

Thanks for clearing this up. Your gravel in the bottom of the hole video made me reconsider using breeze/road base to b back fill the entire hole. I will probably tamp dirt in the bottom 2 feet and save the breeze in the top 1 foot -where the oxygen is... Keeping the organic matter off the post.

[@acheide]

I predicted that the coarse round gravel would fail, but didn't guess the dirt would let go that easily. I crush native sandstone rock with a pointed bar around a concrete post. I've had some in for 10+ years. I wouldn't want to remove one. Thanks for the teaching.

[@samuelligo7234]

I am a fan of doing this with residential light posts and mailboxes and fences. That way, if the post gets hit by a lawnmower or something, it doesn't bend/break the post. I can easily re-straighten it and tamp it down again.

[@bt8143]

Have used rock for setting posts for years with great success! On our corners we'd "bell shape" the bottom of the hole, place a huge rock against the back of the post at the bottom and fill with rock. Incredibly firm and lasting system.

[@shotgunreloader4964]

We have alot of horse fence, almost 2 miles. All of it with gravel at 4 ft deep even the gate posts most of it installed in 2002 and still standing. What works best is washed pea gravel not the sandy stuff from Home Depot. Only need to pour it around post, no tamping. If you want to see why then tap the post with a hammer and watch the gravel compact, this is what it will continue to do as the horse’s scratch their ass etc on it. The washed pea gravel freely slides and like a Chinese finger torture gets tighter and tighter. In a single area we used bagged HD sandy unwashed pea gravel, those post never tightened up and move. Anything, sand, dirt etc interferes with the progressive self compaction

[@snakeeyes3733]

I can't sea pea gravel holding after a horse is constantly rubbing it's butt against a post. That might as well be ball bearings holding the post down

[@fletchbundy]

You can't, yet he says he did it...

[@trackmader]

If you do use gravel you need to use small angular gravel. Round gravel such as pea gravel will roll against itself.

[@trackmader]

But I agree you need fines as well

[@thenexthobby]

Seeing Mark set a post and then pulling it out makes me feel like reinstalling broken auto parts … but I’m glad he does!

[@rwg727]

Thanks for demonstrating , Mark! you explain things really well !

[@SWiFence]

Appreciate this!

[@dchall8]

When I was a kid (1950s) my dad and the neighbors all pitched in to build basket weave fences at our end of the cul de sac. They put nails in all 4 sides of the post before dropping it into the hole and back filling with the soil that came out of the hole. Then I think they used water to settle the soil and get more of the soil back into the hole.

[@zachpapp1744]

Gravel is the best option in our area with our frost depth. 4x4 -4 ‘ down 6x6 - 6 ‘ down 3/4down gravel If posts heave due to our cold winters and deep frost depths we are able to sledge the posts back down.

[@dac7046]

Thanks- I’ve always wondered about using gravel. I’d be tempted to throw in some fist-sized crushed rocks I think it would have held much better but who knows… For whatever it’s worth to relocate a fence I just pulled about 20 cedar posts in concrete that had been in the ground around 20 years. Installer had used some kind of waterproof wrap possibly installed with heat on buried portion and after breaking off the concrete all but 2 posts seemed solid enough to use again. Fence only 4ft high though.

[@SWiFence]

I've never tried those wraps but some folks swear by them.

[@lindseyd3609]

How would you set posts along a retaining wall? Better yet, how should a retaining wall be built knowing a fence is going in on the high side? Should the fence go into the blocks? Inside the gravel? Beyond the gravel? I’ve seen sleeves that go in the gravel area, but that suggests concrete, which obviously you don’t recommend! Thanks!!! Love the videos

[@M1itchyy]

Just went through this myself. Setting up a woven wire fence around my new property, tried on exactly one post to use pea gravel, tamped it the best I could although I didn't oversize the hole enough to get the tamping "stick" i had to use since the steel tamper wouldn't work. End result was loose and wobbly. Pulled the post, returned the extra pea gravel, bought quikcrete, and now the posts are super solid. Thought maybe crushed gravel would perform better but wasn't going to chance it.

[@emiledefelice8780]

You'll be replacing those posts in a few years because the concrete traps the water and rots them quickly.

[@7-BitesPatrick]

For years I’ve roll tar on my post , bottom up 2 foot. That what I call treated.👍

[@bch5513]

And when the water gets in it stays in and rots faster. Just an outer coat

[@quitecapable]

Excellent experiment. Backfilling with soil and a couple of cups of cement in sandy soils or lime in clay soils would be an interesting comparison, leaving the fill a little low, wetting off, and waiting a month. Driving was good idea, except you have to have a driver. Other thought is going down slightly deeper, you may get concrete like results, cheaper and quicker than mixing....

[@landmarkcreations1183]

The only time I’ve used road base was in a wetlands area. Specs called for it. Great video as always 👊

[@williammiller4786]

This content is ultra-helpful. Thank you.

[@SWiFence]

You're very welcome!

[@rcguymike]

My father always watered the loose soil after we put posts in the ground. As long as you let it dry out it seemed to work it's way in and collapse any air pockets and compact rhe soil. Would be interesting to see if that works by itself or works to improve tamping. We'd add dirt, tamp, water, add dirt tamp water, etc.

[@Stefan_Kawalec]

If you'd get a post every time you say "gravel", you'd have a long fence. Great video.

[@rantmarket]

Well... you short-changed me, but I'll give ya a Like anyway. :) Thanks for doing all that work so I didn't have to. Cheers.

[@kylemckinley6165]

I've always just talked the dirt back into the hole, when I set the fence back when I was a kid more than 20 years ago it's still standing, no sway, sags it anything, I very rarely use concrete everything I've done hasn't rotted or anything

[@tunapig]

Driveway gravel. It's got fines. It hardens up like concrete (eventually). That's what I use around the sides. And 3/4 inch clean underneath for drainage.

[@jonjohnson3027]

I'm one of those folks that uses gravel. BUT-- the gravel I have available is probably what you're referring to as "road base, " I'd call it "driveway mix" -- it's crushed basalt with everything from fines up to about 3/4" and it packs very well with no voids when properly tamped. Nearly waterproof. You're not going to wiggle it out like you showed here. (I've also got very soft, damp organic soil that doesn't pack well.) But that's what I've got available to me. Different areas are going to have different mixes available, and it's not all going to be suitable for setting posts. Some applications will definitely have better luck just packing the local soil or using concrete.

[@jkinker]

Engineer with geotechnical experience here. Soil needs time to fully compact, so the experiment/comparison is a little unfair. Also the amount of compaction you are achieving with such a small tamper isn't really adequate to get close to a good initial density. A commenter below mentioned also using water to assist and this is a good idea so long as the soil is well drained and does not contain too much clay.

[@iamdrewski39]

I’m gonna keep saying this until the cows come home!! only because i love building fence and i love this channel so i’m the devils advocate!! I HAVE NEVER REPLACED A WOOD FENCE WHERE THE WOOD IS ROTTEN *INSIDE* THE CONCRETE. It’s has always been rotten just above the concrete footing at ground level where the top soil organisms are eating away at the base of the post. I just don’t understand this idea that putting wood in concrete makes the post rot faster. Maybe it’s just my geographical location being in south Carolina. But i can’t imagine it would be THAT different out there. I do agree that using a pressure treated post in general isn’t the best idea, especially now that we have engineered post available on the market

[@spadesman_the_first3296]

Never seen that in Texas either with the black clay. Has always been the wood exposed to the elements that rots.

[@plumbobmillionaire6246]

Same here is west coast of bc canada and when I did fencing in Ireland it was also the same.( never rotten in the concrete) I use a post saver sleeve or bitumen paint or bring the concrete above grade and slope it. Lots of fence guys think the concrete above grade is silly but it’s basic construction rule of thumb. The pound in post method seems the best but I’ve had not luck with that in my area as there are lots of round rocks, lots of glacial till.

[@tammyhoffman6486]

I wonder if ABC stone would have worked better. With all sizes of stone, it may pack better. It gets hard as rock on roads. I was trying to find your packing rod. What is it called? No luck at lowes or home depot. Thanks.

[@AuburnElvis]

I approve of the bravery of posting a video with an unexpected ending. But I'm not sure why you're still investigating all these ways to put a wood post in the ground. Steel or go home.

[@SWiFence]

I'm a "steel or go home" guy as well. But it's content people are curious about.

[@ANGIEB52]

Think after time it might set in especially depending on the type of soil you have?

[@jonfreeman4095]

I put in a cedar fence in Knoxville Tn and was told by the supplier to use pug gravel mix. I tamped it in very well and you could not move the post and it lasted for years.

[@Anteater6788]

Here in Iowa all the power companies have gone to setting new poles with gravel or occasionally foam.

[@amosbackstrom5366]

If you dig a hole in clay, and then set the post with gravel, aren't you setting up a situation that could lead to standing water around the post after a good rain? I know that water will drain out eventually, but isn't that the worst case scenario for wood to rot quickly? Periodic soaking and drying is worse than just wet always or dry always... Just my thought, not an expert by any means...

[@creeky3751]

How long does the engineered posts last in the ground?

[@kenbrown2808]

unless you need a big weight to hold your post down, all concrete does is make it harder to get out when it rots off.

[@barrycraig1549]

Washed pea gravel. Less dirt, more little stones or pebbles. Grabs on like a pair of vice grips. Try to take one out. After you put it in. You'll see what I mean. Make sure you pack it good

[@talabusick1666]

I get lazy too, don’t feel bad. I believe gravel, not base, is 80% compacted when placed.

[@jerrypatton7260]

Would dirt,gravel,dirt, gravel, be strong, since its layered?

[@blh3741]

Enjoy your videos! How about a video that compares the cost of time/materials for cedar fence with wood posts/concrete vs Steel post(round or Trident) pounded into soil? I have a potential fence to build for neighbors and they want wood posts concrete but are open to alternatives (steel) if I can convince them. 2 fence companies have both trashed the metal posts idea and claim it's inferior. thanks! -brian

[@workisfun...2438]

We have only used concrete, since 1972. The posts suvive as long as they're going to survive. The treatment is out of our control.

[@FartSuckerUmad]

Gravel im posts is common in Australia *Shovel shovel jiggle post shovel shovel jiggle post shovel shovel jiggle post* Then comes the wam bam tamper man at the last foot of gravel to shake any crusher dust to the bottom

[@SWiFence]

Ok I was already smiling at shovel shovel jiggle, but then I laughed out loud and wam bam tamper man. 😆 Love it!

[@woodman1701]

I prefer concrete/gravel mix. Soil around here gets soupy in winter. Too soft.

[@normanjacques4092]

You sir are the Chip Gains of fencing😂😅😂

[@SWiFence]

🤣

[@roberteckert7184]

Wouldn't the gravel holes hold water after rains in areas with high ground water levels?

[@mikemorgan5015]

Anyone who's done dirt work can tell you that your contention that you'll never get soil compacted as tight as it was naturally is completely false. Soil as it's found is call bank soil. Compacted soil can be 25 percent more compact(tighter) than bank soil. Missing this on a large excavation job could potentially cost a LOT of $ to bring in additional fill to make up for compaction. You may have some dirt left over, but that's the displacement of the post itself. Concrete is popular because is simply transfers the loads on the post over a much larger surface area that completely fills the voids and pockets of the hole. The elephant in the room is that no fence will encounter a vertical upward load. If a bad storm moves gravel set posts out of plumb, they can be easily tamped back in line. They won't go out of plumb in line with the fence(racking) because to move one, you have to move them all. Wind loads don't put much load on the line of the fence. The only deflection will be perpendicular to the fence line and easily remedied.

[@tag5504]

How about a combination of gravel and post hole dirt?... the best of both worlds? ;-) Maybe a little water too as you go? I'm so confused, lol.

[@notsure6182]

gravel is better then "soil". recycled roadbase from the concrete recycle place is cheaper and packs great

[@DJC995]

Nice One Thanks again

[@SWiFence]

You bet!

[@manfredeidelloth8059]

Where do you get these long digging bars?

[@tunapig]

I call it a spud bar. Got it at rural king.

[@thedivide3688]

How about a steel base attached to a fence post screwed down into concrete?

[@SWiFence]

Like this? kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2nEnH6EaLCLors

[@thedivide3688]

@@SWiFence How did I miss this?! I thought I've watched all your content LOL. THANK YOU!

[@paperburn]

IMHO the point behind gravel /sand isto let water drain away from the post to make it last longer.

[@Ramdodge582]

nice river rock

[@SWiFence]

Indeed

[@russellwhite8890]

Plus, I think gravel would allow water to sit in that hole around the post and cause it to rot quicker

[@metalwheelz]

I wonder if rock dust would work better.

[@benfowler2127]

Pea gravel? People might as well use ping pong balls 😂

[@SWiFence]

🤣

[@snakeeyes3733]

It's too much work, in my opinion. How many posts are you gonna get in one day? Also, this method is fine if you can get a clean and deep enough hole, but what if you can only get a foot and a half at best and you hit bedrock?

[@davidkantor7978]

Another reason to not set a wood post in concrete: Wood expands and contracts with changes in moisture. Concrete doesn’t.

[@SWiFence]

Agreed. Concrete & wood are a terrible combination.

[@finallyfriday.]

I HIGHLY recommend EVERYONE use LOTS of gravel. (Btw- I'm a gravel salesman).

[@SWiFence]

😆

[@tiktatttoe]

Not true at all. Pull am old post up that was set in wet concrete and then break that concrete off. The wood under the cincrete will be brand new and not damaged. What kills a post is not pouring enough concrwte in hole to start with. The organic life ewts at the point the dort contacta the wood

[@7-BitesPatrick]

🤦‍♂️

[@mikelundrigan2285]

If you are going to use “ gravel” use pure gravel not dirt and gravel….not the same product and not the same result??

[@normanjacques4092]

Hay safety first flip your shovel over when on the ground. What are you an animal 😂

[@jacobmiller7175]

Long story short, setting post in gravel is as bad as setting it in dirt. Driven post will be marginally better in short term but will be just as poor holding power as backfilling with dirt. Im tired of these clickbait/interaction farming videos. We all know concrete is superior in every way in every climate. Stop trying to cut corners, do it right.

[@paulc2784]

Jacob, is that you? That load of concrete came late yesterday. Tell your salesman we still have 35 pallets of 60 pounders left.

[@SWiFence]

It's not "superior in every way." Not even close.

[@leanderthal2689]

My grandad dug three foot deep holes for square picket fence posts around our house, then pounded fist sized rocks around the base until it was held with an iron grip. Then he filled it with smaller stones and native soil, pounding it layer by layer until that thing was diamond hard. It took a while for each post but over FORTY years later I am now about to put new fences up (because the picket fence planks have rotted) and damn it those fence posts are still held in like some demonic force is pulling them down. The posts themselves haven't deteriorated in the ground, only the upper part has weathered a bit after 40+ British winters. The posts are harder than hell to get out, I'm going to have to dig every single one out by removing all the compacted soil and stones bit by bit. If it didn't look odd with the new planks and cross struts, I'd leave the damn posts in for another 40 years, and they'd last. What I will say is that this method has kept water and oxygen away from the base of the posts so they haven't deteriorated in almost any way. I'm confident archaeologists would find the foot of every one of those damn posts in a thousand years. Also, with time the material (stones and native soil) has become even more solid and compacted, excluding virtually all water and oxygen from around the base of the post. No cement or concrete was used, and the post only had a lick of creasote a few days before it went in the ground. I saw these posts go in when I was a child and I'm over 50 years old now. I'm about to use the same method to put new fences all round, and, fingers crossed, these should outlast me.