Swing and a Miss: The Joslyn Army Revolver

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Benjamin Joslyn patented this .44 caliber, 5 shot, side-hammer revolver in 1858. He initially contracted with one W.C. Freeman to act as manufacturer and sales agent, but Freeman was unable to actually fulfill the first 500-unit order received from the US military. The contract was cancelled, Joslyn brought manufacturing in-house, and proceeded to make 2500-3000 of the guns to sell on the commercial market. About 1100 of these were purchased by various units of the Federal military, including 225 bought (and formally inspected and marked) by the US Navy - one of few (if not the only) significant purchase of .44 caliber revolvers by the Navy. The guns did see combat at Shiloh and in other battles, but the records available show a generally poor reputation among troops.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
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[@Omnihil777]

With the iron grip cap I couldn't help myself imagining a Sherrif nailing a Wanted poster on the wall in a western town...

[@pygmyowl8801]

To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine daaaaaaaaay

[@janwacawik7432]

@@pygmyowl8801 Hardly spoke to folks around him, didn't have too much to say...

[@Imtahotep]

I looked for tell-tale hammering marks on the butt plate too.

[@CeltKnight]

I think it might have been intended more for hammering errant behavior out of thick skulls.

[@paulshayter1113]

If Wyatt Earp had one maybe he would have pistol whipped people with the grip butt instead of buffaloing them with the barrel. It was one if his favorite methods for controlling rowdy drunks instead if shooting them.

[@NutjobGTO]

"... which he proceeded to completely screw up" And thaaaat's when an Ian story gets REALLY fun

[@Rafferty1968]

Joslyn gets name dropped in the Good, The Bad And The Ugly In the gun store scene where Tuco builds his new pistol, the store owner pulls a 'Joslyn' from the cabinet along with others.

[@-thebatman-]

and then tuco says he didn't want that junk where is the good stuff

[@jessesands4099]

The Batman Then the Store Owner goes to a glass cabinet and states "Here's Where I Keep The Best Ones"!🤠🔫🏜️🇺🇸

[@richardtalbott6215]

Joslyns carbine got a good review in at least one book by Louis L'amour. " To Tame a Land".

[@SolidSioux1987]

Ty Ian, we don't deserve all you do for us!

[@mrd1433]

Its good to see the gun that Ryan Tyler from Louis L'Amour's To Tame a Land carried at the beginning. I guess Mr. L'Amour really believed in doing research for his books.

[@davidstooksbury8835]

It was a joslyn carbine and a shawk & mcclanahan .36 caliber revolver. The were Rye Tyler's early guns in To Tame a Land.

[@wallaroo1295]

Something to think about in context of time... L'Amour was born in 1908 - so, it would have been like a kid born in 2008, writing fiction about the 1960-1980s - in 2051... weird to think of it that way.

[@calvingreene90]

Yes Mr. L'Amour's personal research library was larger than my high schools entire library.

[@markbecht1420]

I've always liked the aesthetics of the side-hammer revolvers.

[@cfinlay6428]

George McDonald Fraser's novel Flashman on The March finds Sir Harry Flashman pressed into service to help out the British campaign into Abysinia 1867-1868. After agreeing to join Flashman requests a .44 pistol, fifty rounds and a box of sheroots. He's given a .44 Joslyn and has to use it quite soon on brining down a charging horse at 30 yards. A few lines before this he makes the comment that the Joslyn could stop a rino.

[@andrewstallman111]

Did I hear Ian say Iowa?! No one ever says anything about Iowa. Nice. Thanks form Iowa.

[@zanechilson9306]

Andrew Stallman 5 Iowans like this

[@svtirefire]

zane chilson- I think that's all of them.

[@rhinovirus2225]

It's the one state that no one can point to on a map.

[@SonicsniperV7]

Why not give Iowa a try?

[@matthayward7889]

Andrew Stallman Bill Bryson has quite a lot to say about Iowa!

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Love the size around the loading gate, looks for EASY use of paper cartridges, love the cut cap channel in the frame, got to wonder if my 1858 would get less cap jams with a cap channel? the Heel plate must be a memory of CQC once your five are done.

[@thelonerider5644]

Wasn't there a Joslyn carbine? I think it was mentioned in a Louis L'mour western I read as a kid...

[@alfredb2036]

Not related to this video, I just want to say thank you for the crazy fast shipping of the T-shirts I bought at your website last week. Love the channel.

[@WWIIREBEL]

Last time i seen one of those Joslyn revolvers being used,was by a confederate officer in the TNT networks Gettysburg movie. Scene:Little Round Top... Reb officer faces off w/ Colonel Chamberlain, pulls it's trigger and it fails to fire.

[@bakerelkins469]

I saw one of these in person at the site of the battle of franklin

[@jackmcslay]

Now there's a feature I always found oddly missing from percussion revolvers. Given how long it takes to reload one I always thought someone would have thought of an easy cylinder removal so you could have a prepared spare cylinder if necessary, which makes them faster to reload even compared to modern revolvers without speedloaders

[@brucebello9892]

Thanks Ian, great video, cheers

[@Curtislow2]

Possibly one of the true forgotten weapons. Good Find Ian. KUGW!

[@randywatson8347]

I like the clean design. That center pin lock is actually pretty neat.

[@POTUSJimmyCarter]

"Almost all of the parts are serialized" Hmm, I wonder if Mr. Joslyn had some German blood in him...

[@VanderlyndenJengold]

Flashman used one I believe.

[@DaveM86]

That’s why I’m here. Mentioned repeatedly in “Flashman on the March”.

[@SafetyProMalta]

Fine looking pistol. Wonder what the reliability issues were down too?

[@cargo_vroom9729]

Very appropriate for Navy service since it can double as a boat anchor.

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Very well done...As.."ALWAYS".....Thanks...Much..!

[@DIEGhostfish]

A while back we had a brief exchange about the Armaguerra OG-43 and OG-44, apparently the only known OG-43 is in the hands of one Robert Weiersmüller in Switzerland, you probably already knew that (I mean world guns ru is pretty entry level for gun nerding) but on the off chance you didn't it may be possible to open communications if you're ever on another trip over there.

[@Abrxs365]

Any chance of reviewing the Josselyn chain revolver? There's one at the Cody Firearm museum - Buffalo Bill Center of The West

[@campbellsmith8357]

Nice video again Ian. Would you consider doing a video on the Charlton. Conversion rifle. The Gun City store in Christchurch New Zealand just has one on the rack. Not even in the collectors room. As a kiwi I would be honoured.

[@LukeBunyip]

Man, that (IMHO) needs to be in public display. Is a GoFundMe campaign required? More than happy to pitch in.

[@campbellsmith8357]

@@LukeBunyip it's just on the shelf next a beat up old mosin

[@LawOfficeofJosephLWoods]

Picture? Are the Kiwis prepared to fight for your gun rights? Will you march on parliament at least?

[@jackandersen1262]

He did a blog post some time ago on his site.

[@jerrydickerson1111]

Ian could you please make a video explaining the reasoning behind the Army and Navy using different calibers iv never herd an explanation just that it was a thing that happened.

[@aurorawhorealis]

Marketing and purpose, mostly. After the Texas Navy won a significant battle that I forget the name of, Colt put a naval scene on the cylinders of the 1851 to commemorate that. The Navy had already been using .36 cal Colt Pattersons and didn't feel the need for a more powerful gun when replacing them. The Army used .44's, being mostly for cavalry, wanted the more powerful gun for better effectiveness on horses. The "Navy" moniker had already stuck so "Army" got attached to the 1860.

[@jerrydickerson1111]

@@aurorawhorealis thanks for the info

[@aurorawhorealis]

@@jerrydickerson1111 No problem

[@redconnor3629]

for a gun that's 150 years old it in really good shape

[@hiwatt4007]

The iron grip cap would create a decent smack in the face when you run out of ammo .

[@MagraveOfGA]

Something i've never quite understood, what exactly made the Navy go with .36 cal over .44?

[@edwardhyde4861]

fascinating!

[@MrHrKaidoOjamaaVKJV]

Interesting history of a flawed percussion revolver design. I see some Whitney revolver attributes along with the side hammer and cylinder pin of a Colt- Root revolver. As well as a "Plow" 1860 Colt Army type grip.

[@brucebaxter6923]

the size of that thing is intimidating by itself

[@pilgrimm23]

I watch Forgotten Weapons daily and, just letting you know that in the event this channel is demonitized, your videos DO sport commercials. Why KZbin should make coin and not share is I think quite unfair

[@MarikHavair]

I don't know about Forgotten Weapons but I know InRange is demonetized, It's my understanding they did that themselves out of principle opposition to KZbin's stance on firearms related content. However ads do occasionally circulate on demonetized vids/channels for some reason, could be a bug in the software or maybe KZbin just doesn't care *shrugs.*

[@pilgrimm23]

@@MarikHavair - yes, I heard Karl describe his position. And agree with him. What I have noticed though is many channels that describe their demonetization and still ave commercials. I am attempting to let those I watch be informed of this.

[@larryhidalgo9473]

You Tube is owned by liberals.

[@453421abcdefg12345]

The side hammer and cylinder retention is very much like the Colt Roote, and to have man size grips on an 1860s pistol must have been a great benefit, rather than the silly short Colt 1851 size grips, which went on to be the colt 1873 size grips, and totally too small, unless they were all tiny people in 1860 ?

[@samiam619]

Englishman French Exactly, people were smaller back then.

[@GunnerAsch1]

@@samiam619 Indeed they were smaller. Its rather fascinating to read that Mr So and So was nearly 6' tall..an emposing figure. Average mans height was 5' 9" in the mid 1800s. So when you handle a heavy weapon...sword, knife, pistol..hand it to your strong wife and she will likely be the size for whom it was designed for..given a mans mass.

[@jic1]

@@GunnerAsch1 That's one of the reasons Mae does the testing on C&Rsenal videos.

[@fryingpan9812]

1:03 Prepare...for...unforeseen...consequences

[@matthayward7889]

Frying Pan the guns are “in the test chamberrrrr”

[@peppermillers8361]

44 caliber handgun AQUIRED.

[@Wulable]

In your opinion why are iron sights so unusable from this period? Did they just not use the sights?

[@rogermcbadlad2812]

Wulable Handgun techniques were primitive at best in those days so maybe no one even thought of that.

[@DeerHunter308]

I owned a Joslyn rifle about 12 years ago

[@TylerSnyder305]

Finally a revolver with a grip cap , now I can stop saying " revolvers don't look like that " when watching old cartoons. Loony tunes, Tom and Jerry, you name it.

[@rbilzing]

This looks like a Colt's Root sidehammer revolver with Bisley grips, but larger.

[@sdlonyer]

You mentioned that these pistols didn't work well in combat. What do you believe caused this?

[@calvingreene90]

The sixth round always misfired.

[@ianfinrir8724]

@@calvingreene90 Take your like and git.

[@tykellerman6384]

Interesting Ian first time seeing one of those 🤠👍

[@davidevans6758]

Naval service uniform of that time. Service Gloves in Cold weather when in Harbour or an patrol. Large hand grip would have been useful. But when did the loop come about for Lanyard attachment on a naval service Pistols? Since other armies would have had on around this time.

[@stevenhoman2253]

I wonder if that was the same Freeman, who went on to produce the Freeman Patent revolver?

[@viewsandreviews180]

Good video. Up until now I thought most pre civil war revolvers were open top; with the Remington 1858 new army being the lone exception. Why was this revolver considered to be unreliable? Most cap and ball revolvers have a higher failure rate than cartridge revolvers.

[@jic1]

I bet that rotary hand mechanism clogs up quite easily.

[@Josh93B93]

Did this come out before or after the colt revolving rifle? Im just seeing some stark similarities that I cant un-see

[@michaelkinsella1807]

Looking at the length and general beefyness of that cylinder, I bet it would take a pretty stout load of black powder. 50gr?

[@Kellanium]

that rotating hand is actually really cool and clever. I wonder if that's viable in a modern revolver.

[@kbjerke]

Very reminiscent of the Colt Root revolvers! Were any patents infringed?

[@normandegeorge6526]

How did they keep the ball from working out of the cylinder while the gun was holstered and bouncing around on a horse?

[@misterthegeoff9767]

Bog blob of grease shoved in after the ball I believe.

[@normandegeorge6526]

Mister The Geoff ah, makes sense!

[@sakosan547]

If the hammer getting in the way of the rear sight on percussion revolvers, or black powder guns in general, is such a common issue, why didn't they just integrate the rear sight into the hammer ? It's just a simple non-adjustable notch anyway, so it should be possible, right ?

[@Kaboomf]

epic_schnitzel that’s how Colt did it. I have a mostly-original ‘51 Colt Navy where the rear sight is a notch in the hammer. Not great, but it works. A problem with this is that wear on the hammer and trigger mating surfaces will affect your sight zero by making the hammer sit at a slightly different angle when cocked.

[@Dutch972]

What would be a good first single action revolver to buy from a collectors standpoint?

[@jonathandalton2921]

this seems a pretty cool gun , nice features, its a pity he never had the volume of units to fix the reliability.

[@peterd9940]

Nice job ian. Ty

[@tyedwinnell3867]

That's pretty cool click click playing with the action made my day ian

[@jwnagy]

Grips...real grips that accommodate all of your fingers! Imagine that, and in 1860. If only gun makers now would do the same. I wonder if any of these were converted to cartridge guns?

[@RyeOnHam]

Army revolvers would often be fired with a gloved hand. The grip is not excessive for this purpose.

[@lathanchurch8352]

I'm a fan of revolvers especially large or long revolvers

[@lathanchurch8352]

Ever since I watched batman 1989

[@LukeBunyip]

2:53 Mmmn, so they're Beardy sized?

[@mohammedimran3670]

Why did the US Navy and army used different calibre for their revolver?

[@LuvBorderCollies]

Nifty design of that hand mechanism. Seems it'd be more robust and less prone to break.

[@jayfelsberg1931]

The cylinder removal would make it easy to reload a loader cylinder

[@KingdomOfDimensions]

Why did so many early revolvers have such abysmal sights? I'm sure there are examples of both short- and long-arms with good sights during that era, but (and this might just be confirmation bias) it seems like every revolver Ian features was designed by and for people who gave zero fucks about accuracy.

[@voiceofraisin3778]

limited effective range of hand formed bullets and variable quality of black powder added to the fact pistols were meant to be used from a moving horse, bouncing up and down with six shots that might go off in six different directions meant aiming was more of a hope than a fact. Add the smoke cloud from black powder for extra fun. It makes anything more than a dozen paces away extreme range.

[@GunnerAsch1]

@@voiceofraisin3778 Some truth to that...but...if you can see the front sight..you can hit your target. Even from above the rear sight..lining up the front sight with your targets center of mass gives you a decent enough aiming ability. You are not shooting for the collar button on the left side of his chest..you are shooting at the center of his chest. There have been a number of "modern" shooting techniques taught in the past 40 yrs that emphasize the front sight in combat shooting and largely ignore the rear. They do work, and well enough.

[@LtJackboot]

6:20 I believe you'd call that a ratcheting hand

[@phillipsullivan3400]

What is the purpose of the steps on both sides of the hammer face?

[@johntheformerpeasent5160]

But why did they fail at Shiloh!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!.!

[@worldtraveler930]

The Yankees had to blame something.

[@lolyankovic6952]

I am wondering if mud could prevent a Revolver from functioning.

[@zendell37]

Could the extended grip be for gloved hands?

[@TheodoreRoosevelt3]

Lol as soon as I saw the thumbnail I went on rock island then saw the description guess I'll wait.

[@alexf9472]

So many tiny, poor sights on old pistols. Is there any writing from the period about how shooters were expected to aim? Was sight picture deemphasized in favor of instinctive shooting?

[@hvmetalhead2805]

Why does it have a textured hammer?

[@jackgilchrist]

Wonder what made them so unreliable? It's a simple percussion revolver, not a lot to go wrong as long as it's halfway well made. The only thing I can see that (maybe) might not function reliably is that novel cylinder turning and locking mechanism. If something went seriously wrong with that it really would render the gun practically useless... except as a hammer or club, of course.

[@lucienfury2606]

that is why they had a backup plate on the grip so even if it wouldn't shoot it was a perfectly good hammer.

[@Sal162]

Nice.

[@geraldgriffin8220]

Looks like the Westley Richards English revolver..

[@lewisgreenway5065]

I have looked for pictures of Westley Richards with out success, not seen one on Forgotten Weapons can any one help?

[@ArcturusOTE]

Swing and miss I guess I often miss, huh *misfire* ......someone help me write this plz

[@idontwanttoputmyname403]

No. Perish.

[@SuperHoneyOil]

Sing and miss, I guess I always miss huh. Maybe if I had a better army pistol.

[@TheArklyte]

Brother, get the flamer. The heavy flamer!

[@Panzermeister36]

Hammer swing and a misfire?

[@richie8888]

I don't want to put my name I agree

[@MadSaintJack]

Does it rotate 90 degrees? or 72?

[@bigDdavy]

Ian will you review battlefield 5 like how you did in battlefield 1

[@IC3DZOMBIE]

Considering it's reputation I doubt it.

[@wandereagle4785]

Old guns have good looks

[@burningsporkdeath]

Should have put the rear sight notch in the hammer.

[@BIGBOSSSAINT]

Nice

[@henrimostert590]

360 / 5 = 72

[@gaylordpantamime]

FAT GAT HAS ENTERED THE CHAT

[@DarkestVampire92]

Checkered grips, 8inch barrel, solid top strap, army caliber, and a sidehammer.... whats not to like? Its like a refined, mass production variant of the Sidehammer Dragoon i like so mu- ....oh. Oooh. Thats...thats not manufactured so well, is it. The sights arent as bad as you make them out to be considering what the gun is meant to do, but geez... the triggerguard looks like it was welded on, even though that wont be invented for quite some time...

[@niceone550]

I guess they never miss, huh

[@odinrandall2765]

Bits !

[@Scourgething]

So why is it that percussion cap revolvers have circular cylinders whereas modern revolver cylinders are more cogwheel shaped?

[@andrew-ripley1747]

The fluted cylinder reduces weight but is an extra manufacturing step and costs more. Percussion revolvers may have needed the extra metal for strength.

[@nindger4270]

It may very well be a material strength issue, some modern revolvers in ridiculous calibers like .454 Casull still have completely round cylinders.

[@idontwanttoputmyname403]

It might be that it's just easier to machine those flutes. Like how a lot of old rifles had octogon barrels. Not necessarily *for* anything, but better than a square blank and easier to make than a round barrel.

[@charlesadams1721]

If you’re speaking of the relief cuts ostensibly known as lightening cuts? From what engineers have told me, with modern revolvers, the lightening cuts do have a purpose. Admittedly a very small purpose, that small reduction of the total weight of the cylinder reduces not the overall weight to any appreciable amount, but supposedly it reduces the rotational inertia as the cylinder rotates, which is more apparent with double-action revolvers were the action of the trigger in double action rotates the cylinder and cocks the hammer. As to modern revolvers with solid cylinders, the most common and longest produced was the venerable Roger ?Super Blackhawk, initially in the .44 Magnum. This produced a very strong revolver. This feature has been copied by other modern revolver manufacturers such as Casull, the defunct Dan Wesson Arms (the original, not CZ) and various other customand small production super magnum hunting revolvers. In fact, super powerful magnum revolvers are either designed for big game hand gun hunting, used as a “safe queen”, or a range toy.

[@idontwanttoputmyname403]

@@charlesadams1721 I assume you had that "?" Because you didn't know the spelling. "Ruger" is what you're looking for. If not my bad.

[@john-paulsilke893]

Five shot revolver huh. That would make this a 4 shooters at a SAS event.

[@robertkubrick3738]

Certainly enough space for a safety hammer notch between chambers.

[@GunFunZS]

Sas gets a little silly...

[@john-paulsilke893]

It definitely gets silly but those guys are pretty generous and inviting to newcomers. Not my speed but definitely fun in its own way. Especially with the crazy costumes and made up Wild West Bill Hickcock sort of pageantry. But yup, very silly, they original CosPlayers.

[@GunFunZS]

@@john-paulsilke893 I think it is the same with any club. People specialize around their competitive rule set and forget that there is any other valid way to do things. I would certainly enjoy attending a SASS match some time. There's one an hour North of me. I just don't have the full rig to attend.

[@GunFunZS]

@@john-paulsilke893 p.s. the "wild bunch" variant of SASS looks like a lot of fun too.

[@gunnarkvinlaug7226]

Swing and a miss, how can you think it would be a suksess with that name?

[@five5105]

I read the title as "Swiss and a Miss" Ian please help I might be losing it

[@AnUtterSimpleton]

Swing and miss, I guess the Joslyn missed, huh?

[@kozlorog]

I guess they never Miss, huh?

[@jonmeray713]

Niiice

[@augustvanhout2163]

M79!

[@Tobascodagama]

So are these THE worst sights you've ever seen, or is there some even worse abomination out there somewhere?

[@shadowofthenight7316]

BIG IROOOOOON

[@joshuareyes4663]

I guess they sometimes miss huh

[@Lrr_Of_Omikron]

I got freaking food poisoning. I haven't delt with this since I was 18, I'm 31 and I'm acting like a child, thank God for my sympathetic girlfriend.

[@lostblades71]

" proceeded to completely screw up" kinda my life story

[@rodolfoandrade7453]

SWING AND A MISS I GUESS THEY MISSED THIS TIME, HUH?

[@greghawkins1025]

Stop calling people by their last names. Call them by their first names.

[@tylerbeeecher]

Don't tell me what to do, Hawkins.

[@sirstrider4131]

lol 1000th view