Is Graphene OS Better Than Lineage?

[@JCSWW]

Absolutely love Grapheme! I just wish there was a version for my s23 Ultra so I could retire my Pixel 6.

[@_BLANK_BLANK]

I just don't care much if the developer is a weirdo. I still think they're better than Google.

[@IanMcCoy-bt1im]

I'm a qubes and graphene user. If you're having trouble, read the wiki. Both systems can produce buyers remorse if you expect them to just work. You have to take responsibility for the set up to get full functionality and enjoyment. Thank you some much for your great videos.

[@bigmikeobama5314]

Thank you for your comment. the freedom of the wilderness comes with it more self responsibility than the comfort and familarity of the prison cell

[@Thylacine1]

Same. You got a corebooted thinkpad as well I'm guessing? :)

[@GrapheneOS]

GrapheneOS really isn't hard install or use anymore. It has an easy to use web installer, a fancy new setup wizard and then people can start out simply getting the same apps via the sandboxed Play Store. Moving to the open source app ecosystem or obtaining apps from other app stores is something people can do separately from adopting GrapheneOS. Users who use a lot of mainstream apps and services will benefit most from many of the GrapheneOS privacy features such as Contact Scopes, Storage Scopes, Sensors toggle, sandboxed Google Play, etc. People using it as a regular device with mainstream apps are still heavily benefiting from it. There are multiple ways to use it. We estimate that around half of our users are using sandboxed Google Play, many of them with a dedicated user/work profile for it, but it's sandboxed whether or not a dedicated profile is used.

[@GrapheneOS]

GrapheneOS is very easy to install and use. It does just work unless people choose to make it difficult by switching to completely different apps and services as part of switching. We recommend switching apps and services before and after an initial migration to GrapheneOS rather than as part of it. People can use their device in the same way they used it before initially with the same apps and services. It has nearly perfect app compatibility and nearly the same user interface, so it doesn't have to be hard. It's switching to different apps/services which is hard and that's not required to use it.

[@IanMcCoy-bt1im]

@@GrapheneOS I must not have been clear. For new users, what you get after first boot is culture shock. Yes graphene works and works well. However to reap the full benefit of the OS it is helpful to go through your info pages. Hopefully I'm clear now.

[@blargblarg5657]

Love the quote check at the beginning.

[@Totto70770]

Lineage is a great project and it's great that they support a lot of devices. It's main downside however are the bugs. I've used LOS on 4 different devices throughout a total of 5 years. All of them had a lot of bugs and annoyances, some were fixed, some were not. Issues with locking/unlocking, network connectivity, BT, call quality, choppy and sluggish UI, surprisingly - bad battery life. This is not a knock against the project, I appreciate it a lot, just something to take into account. Also one should take into account that support for a device can end suddenly - happened to one of my devices. The builds for the device (a Redmi phone) got removed, just an info/guide page left on the site, I could not download a backup of the latest/last build for it.

[@MyurrDurr]

Why is it "the app that shall not be named"? Did I miss some drama?!

[@SwitchedtoLinux]

KZbin has given me community strikes for doing tutorials on using Kodi...which I will add IS in the Google Play Store.

[@MyurrDurr]

@@SwitchedtoLinux ....oh yikes :/

[@ivladjoll7410]

Look what happened with gray jay fro rosman

[@youtubedjdj]

Would the custom Lineage OS roms from Andy Yan listed on XDA be considered secure? He is known developer, and they installed fine on my unsupported device, but how do I know if the custom lineage os rom is trustworthy? How do I know it does not have spyware? Someone keeps mentioning missing some kernel when you use gsi too.

[@44544abc]

nice . just what i was looking for! lol

[@MiguelDeMarchena]

i have a moto e 2020 that i use only for basic communication and check mails and a nokia 3310 but i am more a PC person so for today standards we are just the same about phones

[@dadlord689]

But isn't the Android is opensource and is Linux?

[@Buoyant-m5f]

Excellent!

[@lyianx]

For me, neither one are good because neither one support my phone.

[@Anonymous-l4q]

you are the best person I know on KZbin 😊😊😊😊😊

[@kc8pdr]

Tom, can you make a list of app you have installed. So we can fine them ?

[@jhf53872]

Yes, I would like to know the name of the Simple apps fork.

[@SwitchedtoLinux]

www.androidauthority.com/simple-mobile-tools-acquisition-3391041/

[@kc8pdr]

@@SwitchedtoLinux you call it, they have a lot of ads

[@siwiecministro1994]

@@jhf53872 I think these are called Fossify apps.

[@jeffkelly5972]

Bring back the flip phone.

[@CommodoreFan64]

They still exist with KaiOS(based on old Firefox OS, but with Google funding), ASOP(Android Open Source Project), or some of Nokia's aka HMD's offerings for something even more basic. So they are out there if you really want them.

[@GrapheneOS]

Private communications require being able to use end-to-end encrypted messaging/calling apps such as Signal. You won't have privacy or security if you only have insecure carrier-based calls/texts. There's also the issue of those devices lacking proper security support. There are flip style folding phones but none of the devices meet our security and other requirements, and we also don't really see the appeal. We do see the appeal in devices which fold out from a normal sized phone into a small tablet, and we support one already.

[@rasix86]

i would love to replace the dialer and clock app. Sadly dialer change has huge limitations, esp. after rebooting the phone (dialer wont work before you actually unlock your phone after a restart). alarm clock alternatives also mostly always have bugs with summer/winter time changes and/or alarms that don't work reliably

[@weathercontrol0]

You can root it, you can either make userdebug build yourself which has adb root out of the box, or patch it with magisk if you want to go that route. Either way it's good idea to lock bootloader, for that you can use avbroot which allows you to sign your custom builds with your own keys to preserve boot chain integrity. Keep in mind that you'll gain the ability to change system partition and you absolutely shouldn't, if you change even one bit of system partition, it won't boot. It's how boot chain integrity is designed to work. If you want to change system partition use systemless modification with magisk modules. For example systemless hosts file module is included with default magisk distribution

[@ultraprimez]

the problem with Custom ROM is tnat now these days payment apps search if dev option/root access is enabled. If so then these apps won't work. it's one of the reason i don't like to install custom rom or root devices in 2024. there are other ways to bypass this issue but it's another headache to handle.

[@lineax5927]

Graphene doesnt require rooting your phone. Banking apps work just fine for me (I use 6 different one). Also i heard from other reviewers that theirs are also working.

[@siwiecministro1994]

Nobody should use banking apps anyway. ;> Use cash while you still can...

[@SwitchedtoLinux]

That is why you should use Graphene OS instead of Lineage IF you need banking apps, because Graphene allows you to re-lock the bootloader while Lineage does not. Graphene works on banking apps.

[@GrapheneOS]

Using GrapheneOS doesn't involved rooting and we recommend against having developer options enabled for production use. They're not enabled on a fresh install. Users are expected to lock the device as the final step of installing GrapheneOS to enable verified boot for security reasons. There are many banking and payment apps which can be used on GrapheneOS. Certain apps require a Google certified OS via the Play Integrity API which is quite anti-competitive and we're working on dealing with it. It's not a technical issue but rather a regulatory issue. Google Pay forbids doing payments on a alternate OS. Most European banks still support a more open payment system which works with their apps on GrapheneOS. It would be nice if the whole world moved to that instead of moving towards only having Apple and Google Pay which is the current trend. That's what happened in the US. It's still possible to use Google Pay via a paired Pixel/Galaxy Watch though as long as the watch is running the stock OS.

[@DlxyRekt]

Yeah all my banking apps work. I use like 10. Boa, chase, PayPal, usbank, Citi, Amex, discover, regions, venmo and Cash app

[@Kirix]

I think they just put a bigger microscope on you if you have all these things blocked. you're still pinging the tower and still running Google software

[@SwitchedtoLinux]

Not running google software that pings at all to Google.

[@Kirix]

@@SwitchedtoLinux Android isn't Google software?

[@siwiecministro1994]

@@SwitchedtoLinux I would really like someone to test this by putting man in the middle between phone and network to listen what is actually being transmitted - if anything.

[@starkle]

@@Kirix GrapheneOS modifies AOSP to make no connections to Google. Their website clearly documents what connections the OS makes, and it's very minimal (e.g. software update checks) and not Google at all. Also, turning on airplane mode fully prevents any connections to cell towers.

[@idonotcomplyrevolution]

all i use my phone for is calls(rarely used) signal(family comms), learning languages, bank account management and thats it, i never use my phone out and about.

[@siwiecministro1994]

In "the wild" one needs phone as a Hotspot...

[@SwitchedtoLinux]

Hotspot works perfectly on Lineage and Graphene

[@drakemallard6100]

​@@SwitchedtoLinuxdoes USB Tethering work as well?

[@ronb6182]

Ok I don't and won't have a phone wit a removable sims card and memory. That leaves out Graphine lineage is limited on the better phones and micro G the same. I think a wifi hot spot and a VOIP phone is better. Leave the TV, computer and so forth at home. No tracking. 73

[@ronb6182]

​@@SwitchedtoLinuxthey make a mobile hot spot that is run by Graphine,? I must have missed something. I have a mifi hotspot. Can I load it with Graphine? 73

[@chris122380]

No tap to pay 😢, which I sometimes use.

[@SwitchedtoLinux]

It has tap to pay. I didn't mention it because I never use it and forget about it, but I did just check and it is there.

[@STONE69_]

Nobody cares lol😛

[@GrapheneOS]

@@SwitchedtoLinux Tap-to-pay works on GrapheneOS in general but Google Pay doesn't allow using a non-Google-approved OS so Google Pay isn't one of the options.

[@inout3394]

Please write list of apps You use

[@michael49789]

Hi, you can see his installed apps in his video. Stop it, when he shows the phone screen with the apps. 😉 So I have done it. BTW: Silence is very old, no development since years, maybe a security risk.

[@josmoify]

what about e/os , its los with more telemetry striped off ?

[@GrapheneOS]

/e/OS rolls back security much more than LineageOS. It's highly insecure and lacks proper privacy too. The marketing of most supposed privacy products lacks substance. GrapheneOS and those operating systems are very different. GrapheneOS is a hardened OS with substantial privacy/security improvements. Those are the opposite of hardened. They greatly reduce security vs. AOSP via added attack surface, rolled back security and slow patches. /e/OS rolls it back much more than LineageOS. Compatibility with Android apps is also much different. GrapheneOS provides our sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer. Can run the vast majority of Play Store apps on GrapheneOS, but not with the much more limited and less secure microG approach.

[@josmoify]

yeah i read that about /e/ before ...eventually i will acquire some graph. compatible pixel or somth to try it out .thanks @@GrapheneOS

[@maximilianmeyer4133]

@@GrapheneOS Und läßt sich an GrapheneOS ein Simplex-Chat-Messenger installieren?

[@leemanwrong]

I’ve tried graphene a few years ago but I found it too restrictive so I ended up using calyx instead which worked really well for my needs.

[@GrapheneOS]

GrapheneOS has much broader app compatibility and much fewer restrictions than CalyxOS. You can use far more apps on GrapheneOS and they don't have the same limits to their functionality. You either tried GrapheneOS before the sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer was added in 2021 or you didn't try that but you're using the much less secure and more limited microG approach on CalyxOS. GrapheneOS and CalyxOS are very different. GrapheneOS is a hardened OS with substantial privacy/security improvements. These are covered on the features page on our website which compares to standard Android 14 QPR2. CalyxOS is not a hardened OS. It greatly reduces security vs. AOSP via added attack surface, rolled back security and slow patches. In many ways, both LineageOS and CalyxOS are the opposite of GrapheneOS since they reduce rather than substantially improving security.

[@GrapheneOS]

GrapheneOS has much broader app compatibility and much fewer restrictions than CalyxOS. You can use far more apps on GrapheneOS and they don't have the same limits to their functionality. You either tried GrapheneOS before the sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer was added in 2021 or you didn't try that but you're using the much less secure and more limited microG approach on CalyxOS. GrapheneOS and CalyxOS are very different. GrapheneOS is a hardened OS with substantial privacy/security improvements. These are covered on the features page on our website which compares to standard Android 14 QPR2. CalyxOS is not a hardened OS and greatly reduces security vs. AOSP via added attack surface, rolled back security and slow patches.

[@GrapheneOS]

GrapheneOS has much broader app compatibility and much fewer restrictions than CalyxOS. You can use far more apps on GrapheneOS and they don't have the same limits to their functionality. You either tried GrapheneOS before the sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer was added in 2021 or you didn't try that but you're using the much less secure and more limited microG approach on CalyxOS. CalyxOS isn't a hardened OS and reduces rather than improving security along with not providing comparable privacy features such as our Contact Scopes, Storage Scopes, Sensors toggle and much more.

[@GrapheneOS]

GrapheneOS has much broader app compatibility and fewer limitations than CalyxOS. You either tried GrapheneOS before the sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer was added in 2021 or you weren't aware of it being an option for some reason. The microG approach used by CalyxOS is much more limited and not as secure. We made sandboxed Google Play because microG doesn't meet our standards. GrapheneOS and CalyxOS are very different. GrapheneOS is a hardened OS with substantial privacy/security improvements. These are covered on the features page on our website which compares to standard Android 14 QPR2. CalyxOS is not a hardened OS. Like LineageOS, it reduces security vs. AOSP via added attack surface, rolled back security model and slow patches. They don't have comparable privacy features such as Contact Scopes, Storage Scopes, Sensors toggle, etc. not just security enhancements.

[@GrapheneOS]

GrapheneOS has much broader app compatibility and fewer limitations than CalyxOS. You either tried GrapheneOS before the sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer was added in 2021 or you weren't aware of it being an option for some reason. The microG approach used by CalyxOS is much more limited and not as secure. We made sandboxed Google Play because microG doesn't meet our standards. GrapheneOS and CalyxOS are very different. GrapheneOS is a hardened OS with substantial privacy/security improvements. These are covered on the features page on our website which compares to standard Android 14 QPR2. CalyxOS is not a hardened OS. Like LineageOS, it reduces security vs. AOSP via added attack surface, rolled back security model and slow patches. They don't have comparable privacy features such as Contact Scopes, Storage Scopes, Sensors toggle, etc. not just security enhancements.

[@一口東來气太骄]

No matter how hard you try, the Android experience will be a little worse than ios, and the linux experience will be a little worse than macos.

[@siwiecministro1994]

Until you want to do something that Apple does not approve...

[@GrapheneOS]

User experience is very subjective and many people prefer the standard Android user interface over iOS. Have you used both a recent Pixel as a daily driver and a recent iPhone as a daily driver? Comparing iPhones to devices with an old Android fork by an OEM like Samsung doesn't mean much.

[@jeffkelly5972]

@@GrapheneOS I like and miss my old IPhone SE. I now use a Moto 5G and hate the size I don't need a phone the size of a small tablet. I would like to see a linux phone you can afford that is smaller in size.

[@privacyhelp]

I don't know what you mean by "worse". But there are a lot of features on android that are not available on ios that I use daily. Like multi window, back gesture on the right side, separate app sound, and various modified apk that are only available on android.

[@JivanPal]

I started using Android after using an iPod Touch for 2 years, and have switched back to Linux after using macOS on a MacBook Pro daily for 9 years. I have completely the opposite opinion as you.

[@BartFlossom]

I used Graphene on my 6a about a year ago. It was indeed easy to install. I was happy with the OS itself. But my biggest gripe is the *H*U*G*E* updates _every_ _other_ _day!_ . . . It *eats* data!

[@GrapheneOS]

GrapheneOS uses delta updates for the OS which only ship the changes since the last release. Our app repository doesn't support this for app updates yet. You can configure both OS and app repository updates to only use unmetered networks (not cellular or metered Wi-Fi) if you prefer that. Delta updates will be implemented for our app repository within a year or so. Vanadium updates through the app repository use a lot more data than when it gets updated through the OS updates due to delta updates for the OS.