Sydney Metro is Great, But...

[@nansatdefqon.1807]

I’m a Bricklayer currently working on the Victoria Cross Metro station at North Sydney and from what we’ve seen here, we also think it’s stupid that none of the metro lines are interconnected. It would definitely benefit the city so much if they were. Plus we’re hoping that the western Sydney airport line will extend out past Bringelly down towards Oran Park and Narellan not just for work purposes but to also help service all the people including myself who live out there as for the last 25+ years we’ve had to go to Campbelltown for train services.

[@illiiilli24601]

I've just assumed that Sydney Metro is just positioned to be a spiritual successor to Sydney trains (suburban rail as opposed to a metro). Which makes it even more puzzling that different sydney metro lines are not intercompatible with each other (i.e. with other Sydney Metro lines) as is the case with Sydney Trains

[@RMTransit]

I don’t think the idea of succession makes sense when it comes to modern transit modes - but it does feel like it’s serving the same role!

[@Koochoo]

Sydney Trains and Sydney Metro are equally important and integral parts of Sydney's heavy rail network. Metro is not a successor to Trains, it is at this stage a complement. Neither will work without the other. Unlike other cities, our Train network is not restricted to outer suburban once an hour service, or 4 services a day. It's used the same way as a metro in terms of frequency and service in some areas, particularly the Inner West, and the Illawara Line. Heck even the T1 with great frequency at many stations. Understanding this, and understanding the way our heavy rail network works is important to understand the bigger picture. Sydney Metro West interchanges with the T1 at Westmead, T9 at North Strathfield, and T4 and M1 at Martin Place. Metro North West interchanges with the T9 at Epping, T1 and T9 at Chatswood, the T4 and soon to be Metro West at Martin Place, all lines at Central, and the T8 and T4 at Sydenham. The Metro is very well connected with plenty of interchanges. Metro in Parramatta connects with Light Rail, at Hunter Street and Central it also connects with Light Rail, at Barangaroo it provides easy access to ferries. Even at SOP it connects with future Light Rail. One of Reece's main points was the lack of platform to platform interchange at Hunter Street. Whilst I agree that better interchanges would have been great, it's not to say there are NONE. There seems to be some misplaced criticisms of Sydney Metro in the comments.

[@illiiilli24601]

@@Koochoo thanks for your comment and insights. Just wanted to point out one minor typo you made, where you said that other cities are restricted to outer suburban once an hour service or 4 services a day. Pretty much every Australian capital city has train service which runs at least every 15 min minutes, often 10 or less, similar to an S bahn. It'll reach 3 minutes in some corridors in a few years in Perth.

[@Koochoo]

@@illiiilli24601 Oh of course. I should have said outside Australia. Our heavy rail non-'metro' services in most of our cities here are the frequent reliable services that are distinct to what is considered regional rail in North America.

[@craigpayne5500]

I’m from Sydney. It probably eventually will. Already it has taken over and split a rail line, Bankstown line, terminating at Bankstown where people change for further travel. The station will look great

[@RubyChiang]

Literally was taking the Sydney Metro to Chatswood just a couple days back. One thing I do love about the connection from Tallawong-Chatswood so far is that 'shortcut'. I can go straight to Chatswood without having to go all the way around in a giant semi circle. While these projects take 500 years to come to fruition or they don't at all, it's a much faster form of transportation and I'll happily take it.

[@dj1NM3]

The real shame is that the Liberals didn't "close the loop" properly and petered-out their SydneyMetro line 3km short of actually connecting to the main western line, near or at Schofields Station, which probably should have been rebuilt to be similar to Wolli Creek Station, with the two lines crossing under/over each other at virtual right-angles.

[@theaussiebackflipboy]

@@dj1NM3 I believe that's part of the overall Metro plan - an extension from St Marys to Tallawong via Schofields - with the difference in the power voltage and train sizes, I would expect a separated platform interface at Tallawong.

[@dj1NM3]

@@theaussiebackflipboy It doesn't seem like a very good plan at all, if there isn't even a single "standard SydneyMetro train" which can (if circumstances arise, such as multiple breakdowns, like all the rolling stock on the Inner West Lightrail dangerously cracking-up) traverse from one end of the SydneyMetro lines to the other (to take up the slack) without being pathetically forced into using rail replacement buses, rather than simply re-routing SydneyMetro trains from one line to another.

[@JamesTK]

@@dj1NM3Wolli Creek station sucks. Apart from the interchange, there's only two platforms on the T4 line which means if there's trackwork on that running line there's no access to the station, whilst all the other stations along that stretch have four platforms.

[@dj1NM3]

@@JamesTK There wouldn't be much other choice except build a similar to Wolli Creek station, unless a few KM of the SydneyMetro was ripped up and a big curve either east of west rebuilt to make in come in parallel with the main western line, but that seems a bit unrealistic.

[@dodgeybrother6271]

The incompatibility of the lines was a deliberate political decision to make it harder to integrate them with Sydney Trains when the government left office

[@Ken-nv2hl]

Yeap he doesn't understand with the previous government. it's about squeezing money out of people

[@angelaballard3929]

But what was behind that? Anything to do with industrial relations? That's the only reason I can think of...a conservative govt not wanting union contagion.

[@pattster7813]

Metro Main line to scholfields train station or the other station was meant to happen If they got re elected Guess what happened.. Didn't get elected Was put off for years until now 😮 😂 😢😢😢 There is some article i read that stated this. If we get back in blah blah..etc lol

[@Xavier_City]

Somehow all Australian train projects are just based on political values

[@SineN0mine3]

​@@Xavier_Citybecause major public works are always political in a democracy. There might be many benefits to cooperation but there are also always going to be conflicts of interest when it comes down to the finer details. Unless the projects are dictated by the federal government (which usually involves paying everybody off so they don't complain) you're going to have to cater to various interests if you want the projects to go ahead.

[@Jokrono]

Super excited to see Sharath on here. His channel is great! It'll be interesting to see what the next additions to our rail network in Sydney settle on now that there are competing standards in the network.

[@RMTransit]

Well it sadly seems like Sydney trains expansion plans are basically nonexistent

[@IIAOPSW]

Pffft. More like Sharathfield cause that guys a major train interchange.

[@Jokrono]

@@RMTransit it seemed that way for a while before all of the Metro plans got drafted too, so I'm optimistic it's not the end of expansion. That said, I agree the pace is laggard compared to the city's needs.

[@Syulang-nt4kj]

Same! I love his channel. But yeah, some of the decisions that have been made on Sydney metro make me want to cry. I really think the SWMETROCITYSOUTHWESTAIRPORTTHINGY line really should be built as a regular heavy rail line, so people could have a one seat journey from the CBD to Badgery's Creek, and link it to the end of the Leppington branch, as well as continuing down to Narellan and Macarthur. That way you could get direct services to the airport from the CBD, the Blue Mountains and the SW. The choice of 25kv ac for random lines makes absolutely no sense to me at all, I must admit. Didn't even know that was something being considered, and it makes my brain hurt as to why on Earth they'd do this.

[@rebeccawinter472]

I love Sharath’s channel - almost as much as Reece! 😊 They’re a good combo.

[@TheRicoboy22]

7:36 As someone who has been involved in the design of the Hunter Street Station, one of the major issues is all the other underground stuff. I absolutely agree, Wynyard and Hunter Street should be in the same location, but the reason for the weird arrangement is entirely due to space constraints.

[@peterhoz]

Exactly. Tho I thought future extension east was also a consideration, but sounds like I assumed incorrectly. There's a lot of stuff underground around there - I heard there's like centimetres between the tunnels and some existing infrastructure, and not very many cm either!

[@RMTransit]

But then I’d suggest moving to interchange at a different site where better connections could be made. I think a good metro metro connection should probably a priority over trains metro connections.

[@Koochoo]

@@peterhoz It is a consideration and still is. They're building stub tunnels for that.

[@Koochoo]

@@RMTransit Any connections are better than none - and given that Wynyard sees a high volume of trains at high frequencies from multiple lines, that undergound connection (even if requiring to tap on and off) is still important. However for the design of Metro West, to ensure a station at Pyrmont (which is one of the most densely populated places in Australia) then a station in the northern CBD was needed. As Ricoboy also pointed out, the station and lines had to fit around existing tunnels of Metro and Trains, and building foundations and basements etc. Having the Hunter Street Station be somewhere else may have meant no Pyrmont Station, or potentially far worse outcomes in other areas. The approved plan allows for a super hub at Martin Place as well as connections to Wynyard and Light Rail on George Street. I think it's a good result even if it may not be ideal.

[@garethjd78]

Large scale events and possible overcrowding may be why they decided against cross platform transfers at Hunter St. Sydney Harbour has throughout the year big events Australia Day, NYE, Vivid, where many hundred of thousands gather around the Circular Quay and there is desire for more. With these events they often need to close selected stations to prevent overcrowding. Like Bank tube station in London, walking a block to interchange can help with crowd management. Similarly with office workers, shops can help spread out the peak hour crush.

[@cityraildude]

Hey mate, I live in Sydney, and this is where you're wrong. We need giant carparks at stations because people need to park at train stations as they live far away from stations. By not building parking, you actually disincentives transit use because fewer people can commute to the station, even if the station has high density development. And sure, you can argue for buses, but buses are slow and take too long

[@timtam53191]

It's about how many cars vs how many people you can fit into the same space. You can build 50 storey residential towers, good luck building a 50 storey carpark. I heard currently the carparks fill up by 7am already. It's unfair to say Sydney metro is park and ride anyway when only 2 stations, Kellyville and Cherrybrook are like that, and the rest are having apartments built around. Even Kellyville and Cherrybrook have TOD plans but the problem is with Sydney's dysfunctionally slow planning system.

[@cityraildude]

@@timtam53191 Yea and? How many park and ride stations does one city need? Let's say you live in Rogans Hill and want to catch the metro every day. You drive to Cherrybrook and park there. You don't think "Oh Golly Gee, I'm not gonna catch the metro tomorrow because I can't go to Castle Hill this time", no you go to Cherrybrook again. Whilst the other stations have TOD, you drive to the one station where you can park your car. What's the problem there? They don't all need giant car parks, just enough of them to allow people from far away access to the metro. Two of thirteen is a good amount. There's no reason why some of them can't be park 'n' ride whilst the others are TOD. Why does Cherrybrook need to be 100% TOD when people from Rogans Hills also need to get the metro? For the sake of a few appartments, you're cutting off Rogans Hills residents from easy access to the metro, and to what ends? Do you know how many people in Sydney don't catch trains because it's hard to park at a station?

[@timtam53191]

@@cityraildudeTry making a car space for every house in the suburb. I said the carparks right now already fill up by 7am. Sam from Rogans hill will not find a space by the time he drives in. You would respond by saying expand the carpark, that will eat up more space. No matter how much you try to expand a carpark, you cannot fit as many cars as people in apartments in the same space. A space big enough for 1000 car spaces can house 2000, 3000 4000 people if it was built with apartments. Sydney already has a massive housing shortage. I know dumping the car for a bus sounds radical for car addicted suburbanites, it'll require a culture shift, but bus feeder services is already the way it already works in suburbs like Parra or Bondi Junction or Chatty.

[@cityraildude]

@@timtam53191 It doesn't have to be perfect, it has to be good enough. Buses will never do the job because they're too slow. Already addressed that. Who wants to catch bus for a half an hour when a 15 minute drive will get you there?

[@timtam53191]

​@@cityraildude Well tbh I'm not totally with Reece, I agree people would like some carparks close to some of the quieter stations. It's just not the most efficient use of space. In North America and some extent Australia, there's an aversion to taking buses in some areas, due to service levels but also social expectations. Suburbanites here are used to driving. Getting people to switch to buses would require better service levels but also a cultural shift. But in public transport cities in Europe or East Asia people take buses without thinking twice. If you've been to cities like Hong Kong or London you'll know how clean and comfy their double deck buses are (personal air con vents, seats almost like coaches). FWIW I live in the suburbs around Macquarie Park. I have a car myself but when I take the metro I take the bus to the station, because the buses around my area come every 10 minutes . Easy and I don't have to think about parking.

[@paulmiller591]

Well said Reece. It was a puzzling call by Sydney.

[@JayJayGamerOfficial]

Yep, and unfortunately when the new state government came into power they couldn't do anything to fix it.

[@RMTransit]

Thanks for watching, puzzling indeed!

[@Flare03l]

@@JayJayGamerOfficial The new state government cut plans for building even more metro lines :\ they're not off to a good start.

[@JayJayGamerOfficial]

@@Flare03l i mean do you blame them? The suburban rail network was neglected for a decade or so and the state is in a record amount of debt with shortages with healthcare and schools especially

[@DaArcanePanda]

@@JayJayGamerOfficial To be fair, the new state government opposed new lines being built in my area saying it’d be expensive, and still don’t want to build the new lines down South which need more and new public transport, but I’m very thankful the Tallawong-Epping-Chatswood metro was built and being extended to CBD when there has historically been no good public transport from the Hills to the other Northern suburbs let alone the city. And it’s a huge upgrade in terms of experience, safety, and reliability compared to Sydney trains plus buses. I think all gov’ts should be ambitious in spending for the future like the NSW Libs under O’Farrell, Baird, Gladys, Perrottet, and like previous Labor governments such as Hawke, Keating, Rudd. I hope as inflation wears off Labor will continue to invest in finishing the Metro whilst we’re building the rest, rather than simply cancel them and rush to build newer, more incompatible versions 30 years later when people demand it.

[@LGTC12]

The Hunter St station location actually makes a lot of sense, as it's between Wynyard (T1, T2, T8, T9) and Martin Place (T4, Metro). Will be a very short walk in either direction for an interchange. I'm also no fan of Park and Ride, but Kellyville (in the Hills) was notoriously car dependent, and essentially semi-rural until recently. Comparing Kellyville and Chatswood doesn't really make sense - very different histories and locations, as well as different planned roles going forward. Urban transformation takes time. As a Sydneysider this video was a strange one - feels like it demonstrates the limits of a desktop review, as it doesn't capture the deeper context or experience of using the network. Also a big fan of Building Beautifully, but many times it's evident that he hasn't worked in the industry, and a certain naivety as to why things are the way they are. Reminds me of myself many years ago before becoming a planner. Looking forward to seeing his journey now that he's started a civil engineering degree.

[@LewisTL95]

Agree. I don’t think this video really accounted for the nuances of Sydney, that the Metro is a complement to the Sydney Trains network (not something totally different), and that the incompatibility between the two lines isn’t necessarily a showstopper.

[@BigBlueMan118]

Agree, although I dont think it's sensible to refer to the T8 going through Wynyard as once Metro 1 opens and the Bankstown line moves out of the City Circle, there will only be the one line travelling through the Circle (T2-T8 will merge). Unsure how this will be referred to on the official network map and materials though.

[@kazpaapzak8637]

As a person who lived at the end of a Melbourne train line, in a comparable area to Kellyville (Belgrave). Having parking (lots) is essential. People out that way aren’t going to trek half n hour on bad footpaths to the train station and there isn’t really buses like that too. My train station had a small amount of parking and it would overflow everyday out onto the street.

[@BigBlueMan118]

@@kazpaapzak8637 Belgrave isn't comparable to Kellyville in my opinion, Belgrave is more comparable to Richmond, or even Berowra or Waterfall except for the fact that the Main North and the Illawarra rail lines continue beyond those two stations respectively.

[@MonoMan1]

@@kazpaapzak8637 I think the point they were making was to create those bus networks, because I agree that walking in areas like Kellyville isn't really feasible. Parking at the NW metro stations is relatively good compared to older stations in similar areas but a few decades from now when density is increased those 1200 spots will be pretty irrelevant.

[@nperceived]

I live just 800 m from a new metro station, but the incompatibility is something I've always been concerned about.

[@KanishQQuotes]

Incompatibility is a recurring theme in Australia

[@nperceived]

@@KanishQQuotes Indeed. In fact, the last line to be converted to the standard Australian gauge was only finished in 2004.

[@RMTransit]

I don’t think it’s something that users need to worry a lot about - it’s a planning problem!

[@mt-mg7tt]

@@RMTransit But the users will be inconvenienced by the bad planning!

[@frafraplanner9277]

​@@nperceivedstandard standard gauge? Or cape gauge?

[@Dobuan75]

Hey Reece, I think it’s time you came to Sydney and meet all the bloggers and local fans as well as see for yourself.

[@LetsJamFunk]

So inspired to finally see Sharath get noticed and do a collab with you! A lot of urban planning content out there tailors to the NAM-European audience and it's great to see that APAC is getting noticed. So much more development with the emerging markets and it'll either be a golden or missed opportunity.

[@OpEditorial]

Fun fact: Up until 2013 Sydney also operated a monorail system, which conveyed a small tram's worth of passengers (mostly Asian tourists) around the various skyscrapers a few stories above street level.

[@nightowldickson]

I'm from Sydney and have only realised that the metro trains aren't compatible across the lines from watching your video. Would have thought it was common sense to get the same rolling stocks and electrification system but apparently not! Hopefully this doesn't cause problems in the future but I suspect it will.

[@liam6nugget]

The North West was the last thing my uncle was working on before he died, and he was super proud showing me around the proposed sites. This was before the link to the CBD was proposed, let alone the Parramatta, Bankstown or Western Sydney lines. It’s kinda surreal seeing so much development in places like Castle Hill when last time I was there it was basically just a field

[@Coolwow437]

Hey sorry about your uncle

[@CarolFremel-my4hs]

And a very nice field it was too - with charming village attached - bit of a pigs ear now in my opinion

[@shadoww7301]

@@Coolwow437 bro cant read

[@Coolwow437]

@@shadoww7301 shut your mouth mate

[@FairDingo]

yeah, isn't high density living just great. People up your fundamental orifice, basic shelter costing you and arm and leg, some space of your, just a thing of the past. Oh, yes! bring on the glorious future!

[@static-san]

Sydney has been trying to do this sort of big upgrade for quite some time - for many decades, in fact. A big part of the problem is politics and fighting between the existing commuter rail system and successive governments. This has seen projects proposed and die several times. More cynical observers might say that going for Metro systems instead of expanding the existing system are partly intended to cut out the rail union from the process. And yes, the government has also been accused of short-sighted thinking multiple times about things like why multiple standards and incompatible rolling stock. Unfortunately, we'll have to see in time if that was a good decision or not.

[@Low760]

Or parked up rolling stock banned by the unions for safety?

[@static-san]

@@Low760 Oh! I'd forgotten about that!

[@RMTransit]

Unionized workers frequently operate and maintain automated train systems, so they aren’t some silver bullet of Union busting. Worth looking into such cases in London and Paris!

[@static-san]

@@RMTransit This is true. The truth is going to be more complex than I know, but the only thing I can add is that it was always only one particular union who were in the news.

[@static-san]

Didn't intend to point the finger at any rail union, BTW. Some of the big technology decisions have criticised by the media, too. Generally the response has been something like "that's what we think best" with not great attempts at explaining why.

[@colinharris6425]

Sick shout out for Building Beautifully. But yeah, we suck at making good decisions out here. As someone who has to come from the Illawarra region to access various parts of the city/suburbs, there is minimal good connections to anywhere.

[@banjopiggottwright1802]

As a proud Sydney Sider myself, the criticisms of the Sydney Metro network are valid especially in regards to you and Sharath mentioned, the lack of Metro/Train interchange in North West Sydney and South West Sydney when the soon to be Nancy-Bird Airport Metro Shuttle link opens. However, with that said, the Sydney Metro is still a fantastic mode of public transport especially for the people of Hills District in North West Sydney, where reliable public transportation was non existent for decades prior, and for people travelling to Chatswood from Epping and Macquarie Park the time that it once took to travel from A to B on the standard train line was gruelling, but now the time that it takes to get to A to B on the metro line is an absolute breeze and when the City extension opens in early August this year, travelling to the city by metro will be both easy and efficient for commuters to utilise. Also, when the Sydney Metro West line opens it will provide the heavy rail deficient areas of Olympic Park, North Strathfield, Burwood, Five Dock, Rozelle, Balmain & Pyrmont with fast and reliable heavy rail services, which has been long overdue for those that live and work in those suburbs. Is the Sydney Metro perfect? NO, not in the slightest, but hopefully as time moves forward the powers at be will look to rectify the mistakes made when first conceiving the Sydney Metro network. Great video as always Reece.

[@nicholassdc]

Even considering I'm a Melbourne person, Chatswood is easily my favourite transport hub in Australia. Lived there a few years back and just found the experience easy and convenient. Really felt like Singapore.

[@BigBlueMan118]

Would have been even better if the tunnels to Macquarie had been built properly and not had to have ridiculous curves to avoid building a bridge over the Lane Cove River. That adds several minutes to the journey.

[@benhongh]

@@BigBlueMan118 I'd happily give that extra few minutes for a smoother ride. Imagine going down the valley on the Metro as you would on Delhi road, jeez.

[@turtlelazers476]

Dude I live in Melbourne but when I saw chatswood from this video I like almost cried at how much better the whole area looks compared to here

[@FairDingo]

you must love how the chinese have taken over, then?

[@NoTaboos]

What does Melbourne have to do with anything?

[@timtam53191]

WIth TOD, there are plans for TOD around every station. Of the 13 stations in the existing line, it's only 2 stations (Kellyville and Cherrybrook) which has nothing going on right now. Believe me, every other station is being built up right now. There's plans but the problem is Sydney's slow and disastrous, NIMBY favouring planning system.

[@DanChan-qb2ec]

7:10 Hong Kong too, with M trains often being moved between the urban lines to fix train shortages of a line and K train on the Tseung Kwan O Line often move to Kowloon Bay Depot on the Kuwn Tong Line for regular maintenance work

[@DoorsClosingTransit]

Intercompatibility tends to be one of the more overlooked features what truly makes a great transit network, not just system, and I couldn’t have said it better than you did in the video. So massive up as usual for putting out great content! Also, although I live and make transit content in Dubai, I’d love to hear your thoughts about the Cairo Metro network - Africa’s first metro system ever, and it’s made quite a bit of progress. Not only with the new “LRT” project, but with new trains, new lines, and better equipment. As usual, looking forward to your next one! :)

[@mistleigh6108]

as a Australian from Sydney, i fell so proud seeing our amazing city in videos even overseas!

[@TonyTomas01]

“Amazing city” lol

[@saumyacow4435]

The cross platform interchange is a good idea, but there are geometrical constraints that makes this nearly impossible under Sydney CBD.

[@crazycomet8635]

They manage to do it in a number of locations in London, I think we should be able to do it in Sydney. So far we have tried nothing and it didn't work

[@JohnFromAccounting]

@@crazycomet8635 London has a much easier geography than Sydney. I think they genuinely don't have enough space to do it.

[@morerightrudder9742]

@@crazycomet8635 you need to look at an underground map of the Sydney CBD to really understand why we can’t do it. The amount of tunnels down there is immense.

[@michaelalldritt7649]

The missing link from St Marys to Tallawong will have to be built to connect the lines. Incompatible rolling stock, track gauge and traction is like going back to 100 years where every state chose a different train gauge, with Victoria on broad gauge, NSW standard gauge and Queensland on Narrow gauge. It done to stop railway operator from one state taking over in another. the NWRL was built so only single deck rolling stock could fit through the tunnels preventing a double deck train like the Waratah from using it at any point in time in the future. thank you

[@Stokie99]

Would love to see you do an update on Perth. Theres been lots of changes and progress with Metronet. The airport line opened, the old Bayswater Station has been demolished along with the iconic Bayswater bridge and the new C-Series cars about to enter service. and still more to come.

[@Geotpf]

An example of intercompatibilty paying off was in last week's video-Los Angeles' Regional Connector. The fact that the former Gold, Expo, and Blue Lines used the same trains, tracks, and electrification systems meant the three existing, disparate lines could be combined into two long ones with minimal disruption during construction.

[@smithydll]

An example of lack of compatibility not working is when the entire fleet of Sydney L1 had to be grounded and the fleet from L2/L3 were not certified for L1.

[@videowilliams]

Wow, great job, man- also by your "man in Sydney". I only used the Metro recently for a trip to a massive cemetery in the northwestern suburban quadrant of the city and was super-impressed with the shiny new service that whooshed me there. So I wasn't even close to critiquing how it slotted in with the rest of the network. I'm sure you're right it was the PPP method that let a company choose what suited them by way of voltage and rolling stock rather than choosing something that harmonised with the rest of the government-run Cityrail network. We are indeed part Houston, part Hong Kong in our planning.

[@Stenman99]

The whole purpose of Sydney Metro is to have a driverless system to point at when the heavy rail system has Union Issues.

[@OhKnow379]

An elaborate union bust

[@JayJayGamerOfficial]

Yep, unfortunately those union issues are only happening because the previous government tried taking too many shortcuts not only on the new intercity trains but on everyday service too

[@BenStewart]

I could see 25kV being useful if the metro lines serving Parramatta or Western Sydney Airport ever get converted to a HSR line, but it is odd that there's a lack of standardisation.

[@Low760]

It's because of.. the liberal party.

[@RMTransit]

I think it’s fair to say the chance of that is 0, I do not think the infrastructure is being built to support HSR

[@daveg2104]

@@Low760 Yeah, politics.

[@saumyacow4435]

It would have been better to convert the existing infrastructure for the original metro line to 25kV. Nevertheless I don't have a problem with stand-alone systems. The use cases where you might actually need to swap trains between metro lines are either rare or contrived.

[@c.d.c9425]

​​@@Low760As opposed to the Labor party who couldn't even build a metro in their 14 years in office and were still opposed to the whole system up until the election. But yeah, blame the Liberal party for building the whole network we have now from the ground up

[@mdorey]

No matter how high of a carpark skyscraper you build, you will never conquer the universal constant of your Park N Ride facility being full by 8am every workday.

[@xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz]

I would love to hear your thoughts on the planned expansion of the new Copenhagen metro line to Malmö and continuing within Malmö. I think the plan to span a metro across an ocean, two cities and two different countries is pretty wild. But I'm not sure if it's good-wild or bad-wild.

[@RMTransit]

It’s an interesting project, the capacity seems like it’s probably needed long term!

[@Infernus25]

Is this actually getting built or is it more in the proposal stages?

[@xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz]

@@Infernus25 it has been in the proposal stages for quite a while. Malmö actively plans for it and even has a project website for it. Just recently Copenhagen finalized the plans for its M5 line, scheduled to start construction in 2024 and opening in 2035. This is the line that may be extended to Malmö in the future. Both cities look very favorable at the extension, but there is no financing yet. The Danish government wants Sweden to shoulder the cost of an extension. And Malmö is not allowed to finance an extension via loans themselves without the approval of the Swedish parliament. Traditionally, Sweden has never prioritized infrastructure in or around Malmö, so it's really up in the air. The plans are very cool though. And train capacity for travel between Malmö and Copenhagen is already starting to become an issue.

[@Infernus25]

@@xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz oh cool, it would be very neat, when I visited the existing trains were already great but as you said the capacity was an issue. I just don't see it being the smartest use of funds though tbh as tunneling all that way would cost billions, surely more frequent service should be suggested first

[@xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz]

@@Infernus25 the problem is that the actual capacity on the tracks are limited. Plus, a metro connection would result in around 20 minutes from Central Station to central station, where it is 40 minutes today. Multiple alternatives to alleviate capacity is being considered though. One option is another fixed rail link from Landskrona to Copenhagen (especially for cargo traffic, but also for traffic from Helsingborg and further north) or from Helsingborg to Helsingør. Also, capacity on the bus network in Malmö is severely strained as it is, despite double articulated express buses, bus priority signaling and bus only roads. So Malmö could benefit from a metro and it would make sense if the two cities could share maintenance and facilities. But yeah, cost of that tunnel is an issue. Though, TBM has been a surprisingly cheap and fast option before in Malmö. When they built a train tunnel through Malmö 20 years ago, the project was finished a year before schedule and massively under budget.

[@reecemiranda3213]

Love this collab, Sharath is a legend

[@dirtywashedupsparkle]

I think if we really want to see change, at some point someone has to harrass the right organisations that decide these things. I'm conflicted about the Metro because it's basically an MTR system in Sydney. I grew up experiencing the Hong Kong MTR system and I believe that one is the best in the world - it's highly efficient, manages a train every 30 seconds at peak periods (I've timed it personally) and knows to put shops and residential right above the station to ensure high-volume use. But placed here in Sydney where things are so spread out and less densely populated that means you have to create Hong Kong-like developments around each station as well, and clearly that's only happened in some places like Chatswood. Kellyville has a lot of car park space but it gets filled up to the brim already. Yes, the solution should then be more people living in walking distance of the station, or buses to the station. The incompatibility issue is a head-scratcher for me. I can only think the Metro is the future and Sydney trains the system to be superseded, but then so much of the system is already the Sydney train model. Still, it's been a long-standing tussle about new carriages and who builds them and where they're made, what design to have - the double-level carriage of Sydney is unique to only this country I believe and you either get rid of it to adopt a more internationally common standard or you keep making these trains locally, and I suspect governments want to do the first option. And good to see a shoutout to Sharath, his channel has been really good for focusing on these issues local to Sydney.

[@SeanSoraghan]

Train every 30 sec is 120tph did u time the train from when it enters the platform to when the last carriageleaves the platform ir just the dwell time ?

[@PetarAndrejic]

Nah double level EMUs and loco hauled are common in Europe, Americans have lots of double level loco hauled sets and I believe EMUs in Chicago, and caltrain are even upgrading to Swiss double level multiple units

[@keirapoppins2514]

It's a similarly confusing call to what TfL did with the latest generation of Victoria line stock. The 2009 stock is 40mm wider than the 1967 stock, which works on the fractionally more generously large Victoria line, but means they cannot use the rest of the tube network. The Victoria line has a track connection to the Piccadilly line, but the 2009 stock trains cannot use it, no matter the circumstances. Fortunately, the New Tube for London stock seem to be being built to identical standards, but it's still a somewhat ridiculous oversight.

[@Mgameing123]

Its not if you know the Victoria line at rush hour. The additional space was needed!

[@OneIdeaTooMany]

Sydney builds housing estates first, then implements busses, 10 to 20 years later when its long overdue, they give you a metro with lots of parking that mostly gets used by people who live even further away from the station.

[@A4roMan]

I kinda just found out that Hunter Street will have a underground pedestrian tunnel to connect to Martin Place.

[@barryrobbins7694]

7:43 The only thing better than cross platform transfers is not having to transfer at all.

[@jan-lukas]

While true for a single route, you can't actually have that network wide.

[@CNPapadopoulos]

Not should you want to

[@barryrobbins7694]

@@jan-lukasYes, it is situational. Fair clarification.

[@trackstarpat151]

I never understood the negative accepts of suburban stations. Because typically they built the best station for that community at the time especially when it comes to the amount of parking Because if have a station that is transit oriented development with little to no parking those cars just drive into the city

[@JohnFromAccounting]

That means there is not enough density surrounding the station, or not enough stations.

[@RT_today]

Great video! Sydney trains is already a very complex system as it is and now the this new Metro makes it more complex. I LOVE the analogy about vegetables!!

[@killzoneisa]

My uncle is the locksmith for NSW railways an he say there a lot of odd things they do that never get heard by the public.

[@junefranklin458]

keep in mind chatswood took 30 years to transform from low density suburbia to what it is now (still impressive if you lived through it like i did)

[@robertfountain4856]

You have said it all except the key subject that really the NSW Government has stuffed up regarding the Sydney Suburban Rail Network. Our City Circle trains used to do a two way loop. Just look at the original all stations loop. Central to Bankstown, then to Lidcombe and then to central and the City Circle. If two additional tracks were supplied between Homebush and Lidcombe then that loop would be almost a totally independent line. Convert it to a Metro Style system built to the existing heavy rail suburban specifications and we have a driverless rail system which could at a pinch be used on every other city line. Since the Government already had a great and operational system why did they give the Bankstown line to be used for an incompatible Metro line system. They are now talking about closing totally the Bankstown to Regents Park section and putting on busses. Talk is that the Cabramatta to Lidcombe line will also be closed to suburban passenger trains. I see our previous government as not having the brains of a gnat!

[@markedwards4879]

You are completely wrong about parking at stations. I agree that having people living near the station is convenient, it isn't how many people in Sydney live. No parking at the station means that I drive instead, and I'm not about to sell my house and move into a unit. There really isn't a reason for it to be one or the other, you can have commuter car parks that encourage people to catch the train underneath the units. Choosing Chatswood as an example of everything right in your comparison is not a good example either. Chatswood is considerably closer to the city than Kellyville, has a different demographic and isn't as spread out. I live around 5km from Hornsby station, meaning that the train is either a 5 minute drive or a 20 minute bus ride away. Since the commuter car park is already full well before 7:30am as it's woefully small, getting to the city or anywhere else for 9am by train is at best inconvenient. If I am at the station early enough for a car park, then I may as well just keep driving as I'm before the peak. Your solution to this would be to try and encourage everyone to sell their homes and buy into something new near the station, since you don't want to make it convenient for the existing population. Here's. what would happen - the units would be bought by new people to the area, and the existing residents would be stuck using their cars. That's not a good way to get popular. The real problem with Sydney metro is the archaic city centric design. There are plenty of trains to the city - albeit generally overcrowded, but the lines largely radiate out and if you are trying to travel across the city then it's a nightmare. This is especially the case on weekends. Public transport should be cheap, convenient, reliable and available. Sydney misses most of those points for most of the population. The upgrades to the metro are a good start, but are seriously lacking.

[@pointlesscine]

Even Vienna, which is currently building its first fully-autonomous U5 line, procured backwards-compatible trains for U5 and all other lines. They’ll be driver-operated everywhere else. If you order 90 trains at a time, that just gives you a lot more negotiating power.

[@koman7609]

After 5 years from the birth of this video, I can say Sydney metro can sometimes be totally useless when there’s frequent day time track work. In many countries, track work and maintenance only occurs at night time when there’s no more train services. Sydney transport has been unreliable over the years which do not help with reducing traffic congestion. Many people in this expensive city still regard owning a car is a necessity, even they’re staying close to public transports. It’s not surprising that road congestion is getting more serious.

[@TheLocalLt]

Pretty sure Honolulu is about to finally open their metro, reaction?

[@jonnnosands]

I don't get the criticism about car parks. Can someone explain that to me? I live 10km away from a train station. I drive to there park my car then catch the train. If there were no places to park my car I would just drive to work instead of taking the train. If they remove the car park and put shops it won't change anything. I'll still need somewhere to park my car or I don't take the train at all. if you remove the car park and put more residential areas around it, good for the people that will buy the houses there, but it doesn't help me. And no I won't buy one of those new houses I already have a house, it is my home.

[@car_tar3882]

Busses? More lines? Trams? Parking lots aren’t the solution.

[@Jack39847]

Great video. Should definitely do a video about transport in Brisbane / South East Queensland soon!

[@RMTransit]

I’m planning to do so, eventually!

[@digicola2250]

Great video!! Completely agree with the intercompatibility of lines. Its so weird that they wouldn’t make them interoperable when the rest of the train and tram network is! Sydney trains routinely shuffles trains through the network for maintenance, storage, or when only tangaras can be used during strikes. I also hate that signage is so good but the lime naming is so bad! They should be renamed to M1, M2 etc like the trains, ferries, trams. Apparently not making interchanges at Parramatta and Hunter street was done on purpose to alleviate future congestion. Thats why there is an interchange at Westmead and an underground walkway at Hunter Street. To be clear Sydney is small enough that the walk from Hunter Street to Wynyard or Martin Place will be very short, much less so than Central to Hong Kong on the MTR.

[@matster7752]

You should check out the Prague metro. Although small, with only 3 lines, it's A line stations are absolutely beautiful and worth seeing :D

[@Azzap2001]

Another point being discussed in Sydney for the reasoning behind different systems is to potentially allow privatisation of the individual Metro lines. Which I really hope doesn't happen... Otherwise, the system is great. The new refurbishment of Central Station to accommodate the new metro line, as well as improve interchanges between lines is amazing and really feels world standard. Hoping this trend of new metro lines in Sydney continues, with extensions of the metro west of Parramatta to the new airport, and extend the new airport line further down to Macarthur... oh and that damn missing link between Tallawong and Schofields!!!! That should've been connected in the first place, or even built to St Marys to interchange with the new airport line... fingers crossed!

[@reisf94]

Nice video Reece, except the one crucial thing you missed is the politics. The north west component of Sydney Metro was proposed 30 YEARS AGO and nothing happened because of politics. Sydney Metro is evolving and it will take time, it's only been open for 5 years. Incompatibilities such as line voltages can be addressed in the future. The newly elected Labor Government have scrapped all future expansion of Metro because all the unions hate Metro and their driverless nature. Under the previous state government, Metro West was to continue to Western Sydney Airport from Westmead, Metro Northwest was to continue to St Mary's from Tallawong and Metro South West was to continue to Liverpool from Bankstown. It could have been great, but unfortunately it won't.

[@-PORK-CHOP-]

The NSW Liberals may have been corrupt but they implemented a lot of much needed infrastructure changes, Labor just does the typical Labor thing, cancels everything, stops any future projects and wastes money on rubbish by letting the unions make all the decisions, so we will now stay in Labor stagnate for however long they are in charge of NSW.

[@markcaritas3073]

it’s a good thing metro is getting scraped! Think about how many jobs losses would occur from the continuation of sydney metro. I support extending sydney train network instead!

[@thelionking219]

In Melbourne, the Metro Tunnel is on target to open by 2025 and it will serve the Sunbury, Cranbourne and Pakenham Lines. Also the Metro Tunnel will have direct airport connection via the Melbourne Airport Rail Link by 2029. There is also the Suburban Rail Loop which is a 90 km rail line from Cheltenham to Werribee via Melbourne Airport. It is still 3 decades away until it is all completed but half of it from Cheltenham to Melbourne Airport will be underground with SRL driverless trains.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

Suburban rail connection to the airport will probably be canceled.

[@NoTaboos]

So what? What has Melbourne got to do with anything? Never heard of any of the suburbs you mention anyway.

[@applausenu]

The area in the outer stations such a Kellyville will be densified - we've seen this before, even in Chatswood (as a older example). The trains bring densification to these sort of suburbs.

[@sjokomelk]

Just a small comment regarding 1500V DC vs 25kV AC. You need a vast amount of less transformers/substations when running on 25kV AC. 1500V DC is very "infrastructure heavy" and gives poor efficiency. With 25kV AC you "just hook it up" to the normal grid.

[@d1234as]

25kV AC work better if in open spaces, in tunnel requires a lot of additional electric insulation for higher tension. 1500 V DC is a "standard" overhead metro electrification, 25 kV AC is not.

[@MarioFanGamer659]

@@d1234as That makes perfectly sense. I can add to that: The only time you ever see use in a tunnel system is if it's part of the national mainlines. The S-Bahn tunnels of various German cities are 15000V AC because the national railway network, which they also drive on, is electrified with these voltages as well. There also is the fact that lower voltages also favour smaller systems as the comparative amount of substations which needs to be built is lower than over larger distances.

[@dennistiong5815]

Can you do Malaysia next? We have quite a diverse system here. Anyways, keep up the good work!!

[@highway2heaven91]

Sorry Reece, but I disagree with your viewpoint on Park N Rides. I think they’re a great way to get suburbanites to take public transit as long as they’re accompanied by TODs (or at least a few apartments) and there are bus connections to give travelers a few options. They’re also good for end-of-the-line stations where out-of-town travelers can park their cars and use the metro to get into the cities. Building suburban rail also helps to reduce traffic congestion. Transit doesn’t need to be limited to denser areas, especially for ridership to increase. However, this could be better served by heavy rail over metro for commuters who live closer to the edges of the city.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

A salient point is that busses stop running, often long before trains stop running. As a lapsed suburbanite my option when working late shift would not be taking the train and then catching the non existent bus, it would be driving my car to work and driving home. Having the option to park near the station means I only have to take the car to work if I work after the trains are shut down. For work read socialise or shop or live life in general. I do have friends who live within walking distance of stations and it is awesome, but that is not how most of Sydney was built out once the car appeared.

[@spartan117zm]

Thanks for this. I get Reece’s general apprehension towards Park N Rides, especially when they’re built with no consideration for the future, but in general having some space for them is a good thing on the outer fringes of the city. Chatswood not having a large Park N Ride makes sense because it was already a developed area when Metro was built, as trains have been serving it for something like nearly 100 years. It also has very frequent bus service. Development of a new area doesn’t happen overnight, so using the space around the station for something purposeful in the meantime isn’t a bad thing.

[@AlRoderick]

You have to do it smart. Set up the car parks in little blocks that you can gradually replace with proper buildings over time, the amount of money you have to spend demolishing a surface lot to put up a building is small compared to the cost of demolishing a multi-story parking garage. You just have to plan ahead by making sure that there's infrastructure right of way for all the buildings you eventually want to build.

[@f.g.9466]

@@francesconicoletti2547 that's really shocking to read. My experience in Europe is that buses continue running even after trains stop running, although with reduced service at those late hours. And in most medium sized cities and capitals there are at least some night buses even if metro/trains don't run during the night. I'm guessing that was Reece's point of view too, sad it's different in Australia!

[@peterelvery]

@RMTransit Hi Reece. I appreciate your outsider's perspective and some of your criticisms align with mine. From the perspective of someone who grew up in the "uncrossable zone", as Sharath puts it, the metro came as a breath of fresh air, a long-promised missing link was finally filled, not with something perfect but at least with something good. Yes, there are obvious missing stations, like Marsfield, Carlingford & Thompsons Corner (West Pennant Hills), but these compromises were made for sound, if not insurmountable reasons, principally that the depth of the tunnels at those points is so great as to make the cost and use of escalators too impracticle. For those for whom the metro stations are conveniently located, it's brilliant. My grandfather started the bus service between Eastwood and Castle Hill in the 1930s and if he were still alive, I'd love to see the look on his face when told you could now get from Castle Hill to Macquarie University in 15 minutes! As for the incompatibility, I'm not too concerned about this aspect (and IMO, the long-term advantages of 25kv AC should be grasped with both hands.. though not literally of course😂) Largely for political reasons, a turnkey driverless option was chosen and I don't expect any future government will want to take over running the system(s) but I could be wrong.

[@BrianCairns]

Regarding the 1500V DC / 25kV AC split, at least Chengdu in China has the same split. In the case of the Chengdu Metro, 25kV is used on line 18 which goes to the new Tianfu airport. Line 18 has much wider station spacing and it serves as a hybrid express service transitioning to a regional-style service as it gets further south. 25kV was chosen because of the need for higher speeds outside the city center. I wonder if similar factors were in play in Sydney.

[@DerGolgo]

Non-intercompatibility can be a design goal. In my hometown, Bochum, Germany, beginning in the 1970s, a lot of historical tram lines have been buried. As in, they operate as underground lines for much of their length now. One line was to be mostly new, to feed people into the brobdingnagian university that was being built (ca. 38,800 students at present). That line had to >run

[@cameronstrauss1818]

Great to have Shareth on as a Ko-fi supporter of his! We recently had a new change of state government for Sydney and they've indicated that they want to densify Sydney to relieve housing pressures and engage in TOD to do so, so hopefully we will see more of this in the future! Not to mention less stupid mistakes with the Metro's planning and configuration!😂

[@josephj6521]

If they want higher densities they’d better build more terraces or apartments with at least 4 bedrooms fit for families. Having 95% of 1&2 bedroom apartments and a few penthouse 3 bedrooms is a waste.

[@Tryinglittleleg]

I love how you add that using one type of train helps with economies of scale to keep cost down, then proceed to mention the CAF Interurban light rail trains as an example, most of which have been pulled off service because of structural issues. What would have happened if they were all the same type of train, and instead of having the alstoms to replace them, they were all taken off and we had no rolling stock available?

[@dbznappa]

Awesome video. A couple of points: 1. Australia is known for being extremely cheap on infrastructure. Ridiculous compromises to our broadband newtwork made it obsolete before it was even finished. 2. There is effectively a zero percent chance of the state reclaiming operations from the private companies. There is no precedent of such a thing happening in the last 30 years, with countless examples of public assets being privatised. 3. Chatswood actually has cross-platform cross-network transferability if I am not mistaken. You pull up on the suburban train and the metro is waiting to take you further on the other side of the platform, but perhaps only in one direction.

[@lyme420]

in defence of sydney, the roads are good capacity and people generally know how to drive. it's only a problem if say, crash on the harbour bridge. i can see that having 1000 spots in a carpark for one PT station is a bit excessive, but sometimes park and ride is the best we can do *cough* baulkham hills. anyhow, i support the idea of the interchanges, and that an interchangeable rolling stock would be better. nice vid though 😅

[@tsetstransport]

Thanks for making this video, I only just learnt how the metro trains on the West line and WSA line will be different in sizes! Like you were mentioning, this could mess up everything, for lines such as the WSA line, it just looks like a singular branch and thats it... Personally, I think a possible solution could be that they connect the Metro West line to the WSA line so people can actually go into Sydney instead of using 5,000 bus routes that would take double the time.. The biggest con for me is definitely the fact how an Airport line is all the way out west with no possible connections unless you interchange at St Mary's where you can change for trains (it won't be a cross platform interchange...), once again, thanks for uploading this, I look forward to seeing more of your talks about our rail system. 😊

[@robertbeck168]

Atlanta's MARTA rapid transit system followed the Washington Metro and also has 8 car platforms (75 foot cars). I believe subsequent heavy rail systems like Miami, Baltimore, Los Angeles and San Juan reduced platform lengths to accommodate 6 car trains.

[@mastersingleton]

Despite the strange decisions Sydney Metro made; but to me its still a clean and modern yet somewhat efficient system that is getting built and not a pipe dream.

[@piffiiiiiiit]

Some observations of my own: 1) Some metro routes follow a very similar route to the existing trains; 2) Some routes have very few stops, which means they service a very small % of the population. Metro West, for example, misses Rozelle, Lillyfield, Leichhardt and Haberfield, and there are no stops between SOP and Parra; 3) Last but definitely not least is the decision to buy carriages from overseas when we have the capability to build them locally. On one particular route the overseas built carriages ended up being too wide for the tunnels!

[@andre-cb8lp]

It confuses me why the metro west skips so many suburbs like i get that it’s meant to be fast and only for people getting to those suburbs but it just skips so many..

[@gnhansen29]

Won't there be a problem if the metro line is extended between Tallawong and St Mary's is the trains are not compatible?

[@jack2453]

Hey in five minutes you've seen what politicians and engineers paid hundreds of thousands missed.

[@BLACKSTA361]

@@jack2453 this is actually insane😂😂

[@daveg2104]

@@jack2453 They didn't miss it, it was all a part of their cunning plan - to make money.

[@smithydll]

One just has to go back to the Melbourne privatisation splitting a large fleet into 2 and resulting in the fleets being incompatible after refurbishment when one franchise went insolvent, and the two franchises were joined again. Sir Bradfield would be very upset and wouldn't let this happen if he were to oversee it.

[@Parmy7]

is there any chance of doing a Adelaide rail video since you have done every other major city in Australia?

[@ACDZ123]

Even Perth had an episode 😂 im rooting for an Adelaide story as well

[@alexhaowenwong6122]

4 minutes peak and 10 min off peak is low frequency for an automated metro.

[@spoddie]

Omotesando (Tokyo) has cross platform transfers in both directions between the Ginza and Hanzomon lines.

[@jeffylikespugs]

Im a double decker fanboy. When the epping-chatswood rail link metro conversion happened, i was extremely disappointed. The NWRL and SWRL were origianlly slated to be heavy rail lines and it broke my heart to see them converted to metro style operation The biggest bottleneck we have on our network is the harbour crossing and one of the solutions was to convert the disused tram lines on the opposite side of the bridge to heavy rail. While there are definitely advantages to the metro style operation, i would've loved to see sydney take the double decker approach for our entire network. Bradfield is definitely rolling in his grave. We had the blueprint for a super unique heavy rail system. Regardless, some of the decisions being made on the new metro infrastructure are super puzzling. Great video!

[@nicolasblume1046]

well the capacity of the metro is actually higher, because those single deck trains with lots of doors need much less time for boarding and can achieve much higher frequencies

[@RMTransit]

I don’t think I’d base decisions off of wanting the same exact train type system wide! But I agree the novelty factor of Sydney’s network is very likeable!

[@aussiejohn5835]

I agree. The Metro was built to prove privatisation and driverless trains are a cost saving option. The controversy regarding the Dsets being guardless was highlighted by the government as a good option because the Metro is successful without any crew. This is why the Bankstown line was chosen for conversion to Metro as a precursor to an eventual full conversion and privatisation of the Sydney Trains Network.

[@jeffylikespugs]

@@nicolasblume1046 Slightly disagree with the higher frequency here. If you stand on any platform at central during the afternoon peak, the signalling allows for trains on platforms as frequently as they are on the metro lines.

[@jeffylikespugs]

@@aussiejohn5835 it's extremely unfortunate. It started with the privatisation of the western bus routes to transit systems Australia back in 2012ish. There was and still is a remarkable and noticible decrease in service quality. The T80 Route which was my local route was gutted of all of the screens at the bus stops and the frequency was reduced during the morning and afternoon peaks. Sometimes busses don't even show up. This NEVER happened when the operation was under Sydney Buses More recently the inner west busses were sold off to TSA too, I hope they didn't suffer the same fate (not a regular user anymore) Regarding rail: The reality of the situation is that the NWRL serves mostly suburban commuters which are all trying to get into the city. Heavy rail seemed like a reasonable option but now we're in a situation where we have trains that don't run through (just yet) into the city from the metro and the distance between the stations is very similar to that of our current suburban infrastructure. The same problem is going to exist on the new airport extension. There's a lot to unpack haha.

[@unlapras9365]

Parts of Paris RER use 25 kV 50 Hz overhead cables as well. It's not common for subways but it works very well. In Europe it is even favoured over 1,5 kV for long-distance trains in new rail infrastructure projects.

[@MatthewGeier]

The RER is part 25kv because the railways in the north half of France are 25kv AC. (South being the older 1500vDC system) The RER trains under whatever is there. For the Sydney Metro it makes no sense at all. They are doing this to ensure total incompatibility. The airport line in particular is so short that it won't be long enough for phase breaks to balance the 3 phase load on the transmission network. so I assume the substation (with 25kv AC they probably will only need one) will be a frequency converter system - taking 3-phase AC from the transmission network, converting it to a short HV 'DC link' and then into a single phase converter to get the 25kv AV for the overhead. Then the train takes that, transforms it down, and rectifies to DC for a 'DC link' to the traction converters which will convert it back to 3-phase AC variable frequency for the motors. Wouldn't it be simpler overall for such a short line, running short trains to use DC overhead and remove two conversion steps?

[@MatthewGeier]

@BB-xx3dv Yes. This 'DC Link' may be as short as a couple of bus bars to take the DC from one converter cabinet to the next one. AC transmission isn't more efficient, it is just easy to transform the voltage up or down. It is high voltage transmission is more efficient. Now that high-power, high-efficiency solid-state converters exist, some long transmission lines are now DC not AC. The problem with AC railways is it's a single phase not 3, so somehow you have to balance the load across the 3 phases of the public transmission network. Usually, this is done over a large area by having 'phase breaks'. The railway is divided up into sections and fed from a different phase with the hope that over the wider area, the load is balanced.

[@Mgameing123]

@@MatthewGeier Thats how Thameslink also works. North half is 25kv AC Overhead wires and the south half is 750 volts DC third rail.

[@CNPapadopoulos]

25kV AC is more efficient and requires fewer substations. The only reason Line 1 is 1500kV DC is because it reused portions of Sydney Trains lines. I don’t personally care about the interoperability issue. The lines will be separate for the foreseeable future and they will be privately operated. 25kV will be the new metro standard. At least the tracks are all standard gauge should the airport metro platforms need to be lengthened to accommodate longer trains and for some reason, connect to other lines.

[@harrisonallen651]

I was there when Sydney was constructing their light rail system back in 2019 at my school camp, it looked very impressive for the time being.

[@bigtomDW]

to be fair chatswood has been built up for DECADES! where as kellyville has literally only started to boom argueably; in the lastt 10 years. to add carparks were put in becuase they were not built in residential areas, most stations are in commercial zone where residential are limited. (with the exception of other stations) kellyville station was built in spot where it is surrounded by housing estates and where to get to them would require a decent drive/ bus ride or a ways walk to get to.

[@andrewrussack8647]

In retrospect, 1500VDC on Northwest and subsequent extension to City & Southwest has been accepted as a mistake. Hence, the adoption of 25kVAC for Western Sydney Airport and West. Both of the new systems will be SFC fed. There is a race between WSA and Suburban Rail Loop (Melbourne) for the first fully SFC powered system in the world. Interoperability and compatibility is not always a good thing to pursue. Creating ‘greenfields’ systems can be very helpful to ensure old inefficient ways of working can be left behind….

[@kierannelson2581]

Exactly. I will say though, on NW, it was a decision made to minimise rail line shutdowns as changing the power meant a much more lengthy build time in the existing tunnels.

[@mark123655]

Yep. I think if you were building the line from scratch today you'd use 25kV AC, but given the Metro reuses much of the Bankstown line and the Chatswood-Epping line it was cheaper to stay with what they had in terms of power delivery and substations. The West Airport and West Metro are also more semi-express lines (in terms of station spacing, and expected speed) which generally works better with AC. Interoperability I think really goes away with fully automated metros as they need to work in a very closed environment in any event.

[@RGC198]

Interesting video. I wasn't aware of the differences in the Sydney Metro lines in compatibility. i remember that they had some problems using light rail from the Randwick line to the Dulwich Hill line, when needed. Here in Melbourne, we had similar problems years ago, when the VR St Kilda Brighton trams had a larger gauge to main city tram network. Eventually, the VR trams were completely closed down.

[@OldAussieAds]

I don't live in the Hills district, but I can imagine what it would be like. Lots of suburban sprawl. The average worker living in these parts would be used to getting in the car each morning and driving straight to work. But now there's a metro train that runs through the region. That's great for some parts of Kellyville for example, but what about those that live in Kellyville Ridge, Stanhope Gardens, The Ponds etc. Do these people just keep driving to work, or do you suggest they just wait it out for 50-100 years when they have a metro on their doorstep? That's where commuter car parks come in. I get your point that the spaces provided are inadequate, but in my opinion, they should build more spaces. It sounds counter intuitive, but letting these people park their cars actually gets cars off the road. The reason Chatswood works is that it's closer to the City. So if you live in Chatswood West for example, it's not too much of a stretch to catch a bus to Chatswood and then get on the train. This just makes a short journey a little longer. But if you live near Kellyville, you're already looking down the barrel of a pretty big commute. Add an infrequent bus (I assume) journey to the mix and... well, it's now getting easier to just drive to work. I agree about Sydney's incompatible lines. My original opinion was that they should have made these new lines just standard Sydney Trains lines and have one big awesome system. I've since warmed up to the metro concept. But having incompatible lines within the metro system just to award a certain vendor a contract? Ridiculous!

[@shashanksaikumar]

Delhi metro is not all on ac. Only the initial stretches were ac. The subsequent expansion projects were dc.

[@RMTransit]

Yep I’m aware that all lines aren’t AC but the new stuff isn’t DC, Pink line for example is AC

[@rishav2205]

Which lines? because as far as I know all lines used 25kv 50Hz ac catenary.

[@RMTransit]

@@rishav2205it’s not technically part of Metro, but it functions that way en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Metro_Gurgaon

[@timor64]

Sydney "metro" is driven by a Treasury department that wants to eliminate train drives. That's what drives the project. The new Sydney West Airport has a rail corridor reserved for it linking it to the train network - to the very trainj line which runs east to the esiting airport then on to the city. Instead of that they are building a "metro" northwards to the train line at St Mary's. This makes it impossible to interchange easily by rail between the two airports.

[@gregessex1851]

Or it was a technical decision to join the 21st century. It had zero to do with the NSW Treasury

[@asdaneedsfunds]

I'm not sure how Reece made it through an entire video without talking about Sydney's Platform Screen Doors 😂

[@DanChan-qb2ec]

I think it's because platform screen doors are almost a must in newly built systems

[@ficus3929]

I’ve never seen someone that loves platform screen doors so much. Meanwhile in the US just having trains is a big accomplishment.

[@Tryinglittleleg]

He mentioned them right at the very end

[@illiiilli24601]

Name a better duo

[@victorsvoice7978]

They Sydney Metro needs to extend the line from Talawong through Ropes Crossing into St Marys. This would take pressure of the western line to the CBD. It would be a second way to the CBD. It would be a common sense solution to overcrowding and congestion on the western line.

[@DosAussieThai]

The airport is actually now called "Western Sydney International (Nancy Bird Walton) Airport" which is even more mouthful LOL

[@shartslaw322]

As some one that works for Sydney trains, I watched your video you just released and then watched this one. The government is actually focusing more on the metro over Sydney trains and only doing major repairs if the Sydney trains station is going to be converted into a metro station, or it works as a duo station, as in it crossed over being both Sydney trains and the metro. The workers are worried that we'll eventually lose our jobs to the metro.

[@SYDTrainsFilms]

This is one of the best videos that I have seen in a while about metro! 🎉 it makes all the best points!

[@sahn5995]

Unless there is huge investment coming anytime soon and I will emphasis huge investments on road infrastructure and bus networks, those car parks around kellyville area are definately required.

[@jan9123]

I think it's hard to compare Chatswood (which has been a longstanding established suburb) to a newer suburb like Kellyville where the design of the suburb was initially less about apartments and more about large houses filling up large plots of land. The metro station and carpark in Kellyville had taken into account that consideration as well as the fact that Kellyville is servicing suburbs around the region that do not have convenient transport. Don't forget Kellyville does not have an existing train line. That suburb and surrounding suburbs use to rely on buses. If people weren't taking the metro, they would have been likely driving to work into inner Sydney. I think designing a transport system also needs to take into account existing behaviours in order to implement behavioural change

[@Bobrogers99]

Incompatible equipment requires more inventory of the required spare parts and more training of mechanics to work on the very different trains. That's a long-term inefficiency. Re the large car parks at stations, these make sense if there is a plan to gradually develop them for commercial and residential space.

[@HenryMidfields]

Some of those metro stations were (and in some cases still are) in the middle of nowhere. The large car parks are at least a way to reserve space for future expansion of the area.

[@RMTransit]

If you want to develop then building expensive parking structures is probably not a good incentive

[@HenryMidfields]

@@RMTransit I was referring to open-air types, not actual parking garages as you've implied.

[@Bobrogers99]

@@RMTransit Like HenryMiddlefields (below), I was referring to parking lots, not structures.

[@DanChan-qb2ec]

I think the best way to reserve future land use is having your station reserved for future developments above it. This way you can direct build new housing or other stuffs above it when it's about time to develop the area

[@AndyAussie]

The elephant in the room is Bankstown station. The metro has destroyed the Bankstown to Lidcombe section. Years ago the line went from city through Bankstown back around to Lidcombe and back to the city. Years ago the government blocked that line at Lidcombe forcing trains to terminate there. And with metro it will now block the line at Bankstown now focing those between Bankstown and Lidcombe to have to change trains. Most in those areas have a lot of elderly and will cause problems for those passengers. It really was a disaster waiting to happen.

[@bigPauliee]

I get off at chatswood for work its very neat

[@georgou271]

I always watch your videos but I think that something is missing . You should make a video about Athens and the latest Thessaloniki (Greece) metro system!

[@tacitdionysus3220]

It's just not that big a deal. Yeah, compatible metro stock on separate lines has some advantages, but 25Kv AC is something that should have started happening years ago. Sydney and Melbourne are quite old systems and 1500v catenary supply was the technology at their birth. Since then rail traffic has become much greater and air conditioned DD trains have become the mainstream on Sydney Trains. That increased the need for power substations substantially. 25Kv AC has a lot less need for substations, and should have been introduced gradually from then. If a VFT train ever gets up, would you really want to go 1500v DC from Sydney to Melbourne because it's 'compatible'? The Tallawong-City-Bankstown metro is destined to be a high traffic line. The WSI airport line is probably not ever going to be as heavily used (hence the 3-4 car design). I haven't heard about the cars being wider - does anyone have a source for that? Connecting Tallawong to it at St Marys would mean running far larger trains than WSI-Bradfield-Macarthur will need, simply for 'compatibility'. Oddly, nobody talks about the incompatibility of Sydney Trains stock, and I suspect complaints about Sydney Metro have much more to do with "it was good enough in the past" attitude and thinly disguised industrial issues. As for stations, there are places like Chatswood where the sort of station it has makes perfect sense; but Kellyville is in a quite different situation. It's not a mini-CBD and probably never will be. Look at a place like Liverpool and you'll see a station strongly based on people walking in or catching the bus, yet just up the line is its shoulder station Warwick Farm which is overwhelmingly park and ride. There's room on the Sydney system to create stations that reflect wide commuter market segmentation. It's not being the anti-christ to provide for passenger preferences other than PT acolytes. Should Kellyville start looking like Chatswood, then by all means replace the parking station with something else that works for it then, and be happy that chunk of land was available next to it for such a development. I will defer to infrastructure designers on the matter, but I would be surprised if dual lines with cross-platform interchange would be easily possible anywhere in the Sydney CBD (except where it was intended originally at St James). Sydney streets are notoriously narrow. Bradfield was lucky to squeeze so many platforms in at Town Hall and their modest width causes issues. Plus there are so many tunnels under and around Sydney, driving a TBM around them must be getting difficult. It's interesting that one place you could do another 'Chatswood' cross platform style connection is by extending the WSI airport metro to Glenfield using the Leppington tracks. It would connect the WSI/Bradfield with South Line, Airport Line, Cumberland line and southern NSW Train Link services. There's a study being done on it now, but I expect any suggestion of that arrangement will get howls of derision as it would replace beloved DD trains on the SW link. The above may generate a bit of hate, but I'm always one to subvert the dominant paradigm, and I fear many PT discussions become a bit of an echo chamber of the faithful at times. No disrespect to RM or BB. Their ability to encapsulate complex systems and issues is often awe inspiring.

[@adityarangarajan1603]

Can you make a video covering the Mumbai metro and the suburban rail system. There are around 14 lines under construction/proposed, with 3 already operational and couple other set to be opened in the next couple of years. I would like to hear your opinions on them. Really loved your video on the Delhi metro rail system.

[@shayneoneill1506]

Coming from Perth where our (pretty good but not perfect) entire public transport system is public owned and have a time + distance zone based ticket system (ie you pay for how many "zones" you travel and the tickets expire in about 2 hours unless you buy an all-day) Sydneys privatized system where I needed different tickets for each leg of the journey was *very* disorienting. And expensive. I got lost a LOT , but getting lost is part of the sydney tourism experience lol.

[@thrusta100]

Just do the opal card thing ,no matter how your stay is!

[@ashleyjiscool]

A legacy of uerl in london is that the central, bakerloo, the northern and Piccadilly lines could have 1 train type if they wanted (look at the 1938 stock page)

[@Mgameing123]

the district could also in theory do aswell but would be a silly idea.

[@ashleyjiscool]

@@Mgameing123 yeah District line train is WAAAAAAAY bigger then the Piccadilly so the situation at Acton exist (where there is 2 ramps for both types)

[@russellhammond4373]

The reason why they didn't use the heavy rail line from Leppington to the new airport is beyond me. Passengers could have caught a single train (heavy rail) between both airports and now they have to travel to St Marys which will require changing trains at least twice. What a debacle.