Why China's Shenzhou is Better Than Russia's Soyuz

[@csours]

If those ex-Soviet engineers are anything like me, they spent the whole time telling their Chinese counterparts: "And I wish I had done this differently, and this, and this ...."

[@barnabuskorrum4004]

Your planes are falling apart. Get real.

[@Dunewarrior00]

Ah the engineer's universal prayer: "I wish I did this differently"

[@LeafBoye]

Ignore that weirdo he's harmless​@@Usrthsbcufeh

[@HarmKaban]

​@@barnabuskorrum4004 1. Your 2. The planes are falling apart because of mismanagement, not because of the engineers. 3. You're (which stands for "you are") right in one thing: the American education is trash and getting trashier by the hour all while the Chinese, Indian and especially Russian engineers are less and less likely to immigrate into the United States and save your industry.

[@randbarrett8706]

Sino Soviet split

[@Clearwater_WT]

I was in primary school in Shenzhen, Guangdong when Shenzhou 5 launched, and on that day the school made all the students gather in the multimedia room (which is like a big big room with projectors and a stage and seats enough for the whole school) and cancelled all the classes for the period when the event is broadcast live on TV. That sure was a good day of no classes, but it also kinda sparked my interest in spaceflight, which I kept to this day.

[@judet2992]

Amazing!

[@jackharle1251]

History has proven that China can't be trusted. Should we address their supposed summit of Everest? How about a bioweapon that crashed the World's economy?

[@bewilderbeestie]

I remember the same thing happening at my school for the Shuttle maiden flight... and I wasn't even in the US!

[@donjones4719]

My school stopped everything so we could watch the first Mercury flight and the first Mercury orbital flight. I was very young, I think I was more amazed that the school owned TVs. And yeah, now I'm old.

[@penguin44ca]

Really? You remember watching the launch he just said was not broadcast?

[@SF7PAKISTAN]

"Better not to piss in diaper, baby doesn't like it, neither does an adult" has to be one of the best lines ever spoken about human space exploration

[@Sparweb_Projects]

Alan Shepard learned that one the hard way - and he did not even have the diaper!

[@ronschlorff7089]

@@Sparweb_Projects true, but he got his "revenge" some years later as commander of Apollo 14!! He even golfed there!! LOL ;D

[@STho205]

This happened 200 years ago with steam locos. The US, new to industrialization, imported Scottish and English locos to get their first RRs operating. US machinists had to fabricate spare parts...then back engineered cloned, but the clones eventually were improved. Then they became specialized to the frontier terrain that did not exist in Britain or France....becoming a much more capable loco line for the purpose...and Beitish machine shops started integrating some American innovations to incorporate into their colonial Empire railways. Eventually at the end of steam Britain had some beautifully elegant, fast but quaint engines to pull trains through the rolling English countryside. The US had Big Boy and Challengers to drag mile long teains over the Allegheny and Rockys.

[@howilearned2stopworrying508]

gonna write an alternate history novel where the British Empire intentionally supports the Confederacy and sanctions the Union for stealing IP. Maybe at some point the Confederates lose the mainland and have a government in exile on a little island off the coast like Cuba or PR

[@paulsengupta971]

Also see the Harrier aircraft...

[@ronschlorff7089]

Love old trains, hence a whole hobby, industry, restoration, following, etc. today devoted to their construction, and layouts as models, worldwide. A most lovely innovation was steam, for any vehicles' power, for example. High art and engineering for us essentially lowly stupid little f'ing monkeys, I think!! ;D LOL

[@DaniEles-rc7ij]

And those trains are with you now? America lost that race also... CHINA has better faster and cheaper LOCOS

[@ronschlorff7089]

@@DaniEles-rc7ij Yup, true; China certainly is "Loco"!! LOL ;D

[@Vespuchian]

I recently read a lovely illustrated history of the Soviet manned space program and I'm struck by how much Shenzhou resembles the original proposals for Soyuz that were subsequently scaled back, particularly the orbit module.

[@Dayznology]

What was this illustrated history?

[@DIREWOLFx75]

Yeah, several of the Soviet engineers had some really neat and ambitious ideas.

[@jeffery7281]

And I also read a collection of essays about the early conceptual works on Shenzhou. Surprisingly to me, there's actually two different ways even after they decided to using the overall configuration of Soyuz (i.e. the orbit-reentry-service modules), and the alternate design was actually looked more western-style, with a truncated cone capsule that looked like Gemini or even early version of Dragon!

[@Reactordrone]

@@Dayznology The Soviet manned space program by Phillip Clark.

[@odysseusrex5908]

What was the name of the history? For those interested, I highly recommend "Challenge to Apollo" by Asif Siddiqi.

[@familyplans3788]

Must be amazing to have the space to safely land a new spacecraft, Here in the U.K. the largest area we have uninhabited and empty is the trophy room at Bournemouth Football club

[@scottmanley]

There were a couple of runways which were available for the space shuttle in the event of a trans atlantic abort scenario

[@ivarbrouwer197]

There’s Scotland, pretty empty up north…

[@ivarbrouwer197]

@@scottmanley ofcourse the spaceshuttle could target a landing site.. a craft like soyouz is more prone to outside influence and probably bad at targeting a specific point/zone.

[@Anmeteor9663]

​@@scottmanley One was RAF Fairford in Gloucestershire. I was there in May 1983 when Enterprise landed on the piggyback 747. What a day! We were so close at the parking stand that the 747 wingtip was right in front of us.

[@MrGeforcerFX]

@@ivarbrouwer197 The modern capsules are actually pretty steerable on reentry so they can usually aim and get within a couple squaremiles of a target depending on winds. In the Ocean not a huge issue but starliner has to stay within it's landing zone on land.

[@mikeyangyang8816]

In my primary school, during the week of shenzhou 5 launch, our teacher had us doing all kinds of activities related to the space program. Everyone get to choose their own projects to work on. It was such an amazing time, I chose to do a presentation on the space suits. i edited and made then printed manuals for the different space suits for each of my classmates (each manual was like 20 pages long). The time i spent reading on how the suit design decision definitely changed how my life turned till now. I still think back to how i enjoy designing and making stuff. I now hold a degree in physics and a degree in computer science. Space programs like this have the ability to change a generation of people.

[@alexpishvanov736]

May be because Shenzhou is at least 40 years newer than Soyuz ))))

[@verypleasantguy]

China stole the technology, as usual !

[@zanelittlegray]

Soyuz was only 15 yrs old when Putin seized Russia, but Putin has been too busy doing "other things" for him to worry about keeping his nation's manned space program alive.

[@dadrising6464]

My immediate thought

[@romerobryan83]

So there’s been no improvements made by the Russians on their Soyuz in 40 years ..

[@MrkTan]

40 years? Weren't the Soyuz introduced around 1960 I think?

[@samuelling2998]

Mandarin speaker here, "zh" in "Shenzhou" sounds much closer to "j", and "shen" sounds exactly like "tion" in "nation". So "tion joe" would sound much closer to how it's actually pronounced. Great video! (also, instead of "beizhhhhing", which Westerners always use, "bay dzing" would be much closer)

[@hanweiliu8850]

I was in elementary school in 2003 and I am sure we all watched Shenzhou-5 mission live on School's television that year. The false alarm happened during EVA in Shenzhou-7 was also live on TV.

[@watcherzero5256]

Was initially announced to be live streamed by CCTV a week before launch, however the day before launch CCTV announced they had been ordered by the government to cancel the plan and only show pre-recorded highlights. So they showed video of launch a few minutes after it happened and reported landing but the number of crew onboard and the crews identity was kept secret by the government until after the successful landing.

[@postahundredcommentsbutonl4408]

2006年

[@ComdZero]

神五那个直播是延后的。知乎上有人说过了。正常是9点多点火，但“直播”是10点多。

[@JonathanGibson-h7d]

I love that you use Juno to show the Shenzhou mission profile, you're the reason I started playing it, and I've been hooked ever since.

[@connycontainer9459]

I assumed it was KSP2. Does it (Juno) compare well to KSP1 ?

[@ExcaliburAero]

@@connycontainer9459 absolutely, i love it. Played both KSP1 and Juno and i have to say i love Juno so so much more

[@BigstockGamingINC]

Long Live Juno

[@BigstockGamingINC]

@@ExcaliburAerohello

[@kspencerian]

@@connycontainer9459 Very comparable to a modded KSP1, and with procedural parts. Best of all, it works on Mac, PC, and mobile devices.

[@odysseusrex5908]

That was very, very interesting Scott. I have read different things saying Shenzhou is better than Soyuz and that it is just a copy. Now I know for sure. Having the Orbital Module be able to function unmanned after the manned mission ends is absolutely brilliant.

[@RaNc0R]

But I still love Soyuz, with the beautiful Korolev cross, 60 years old work horse still carrying people to the space. Time tested and reliable.

[@dewayneblue1834]

You need to give credit to the true originator, the R-7 ICBM of 1957. Soyuz is just one of its many derivatives.

[@RaNc0R]

@@dewayneblue1834 ofc, the whole evolution of the R7 family.

[@phuzz00]

At least in the early days, they got artists in to add paintings of nature scenes to the inside of the orbit module, to make it a bit more homely for the cosmonauts.

[@GuillermoPradoObando]

The korolev cross is still an stunning thing.

[@cosmotect]

​@@dewayneblue1834well, by that logic you can go back to the beginning of the universe

[@TheDesktopOrbinaut]

Also interesting to note that the taikonauts that flew on Shenzhou 6 and 7 became one of the first commanders of the Tiangong Space Station over 14 years later

[@jeffery7281]

Some points: ·Shenzhou is not just "larger", but actually being larger a lot. The exact diameter of Shenzhou's reentry module is 2,517mm, while Soyuz is 2,250mm. The habit volume of the module is 50% larger than Soyuz (6m3 vs 4m3), made it the largest reentry module before the "new gen" capsules like Orion and Dragon (all at ~9m3). ·We all know how the Komarov died because of one of the solar panels on the Soyuz 1 failed to extend and charging the batteries for parachute system. Well, this won't happened on Shenzhou - the Shenzhou's onboard battery itself could sustained the spacecraft for full power operation of 4 orbits, 6 hours. That means if the solar panel get stuck on Shenzhou, the crew will still have quite a lot of time to deal with it or just abort for emergency reentry. 4 orbits is enough to choose the downrange, so that they can return to the launch site instead of just landing in somewhere randomly in Pacific Ocean or Siberia... (and if they have to, the battery in the reentry module will be able to maintaining the satellite comms and emergency beacon for at least 24 hours. Leonov will be happy to hear that.) ·As for what happened on Shenzhou 2's parachute, rumors said it was because of the radio alttimeter somehow false-alarmed and cutted the chute before the capsule actually touched down. So as we know now, the Shenzhou's alttimeter still insisted to using gamma radiation source instead of simply radio to make detection, even that'll means there will be some dangerous and complex procedures after landing to sealed and removed the gamma emitter. ·There's 4 main engine nozzles behind Shenzhou's service module, as you can see. The service module's main propulsion system is double redundancy, with each pair being one of them. And, like the SPS of Apollo, all the valves and pipelines to the engines are double redundancy too. And even if both of them are all failed, the RCS thrusters will be the last redundancy, which is also double redundancy. ·CASC is always overstressed when it comes to reliability. Like, there's a insane requirement on the Long March 5, said the insulation layers must being able to keep the loaded LH2/LOX properllant for 24 hours after loading, in the 30°C+ hot summer of Hainan! That means ridiculously thick of foam layers that reduced the rocket's structure efficiency, everyone thinks that's crazy and completely unnecessary, untill two weeks ago when the Chang'e-6 just easily lifting off in the thunderstrom striking Wenchang. ·Also, since we come to redundancy, if you want to know, the computer system is triple hot redundancy in reentry module and double cold redundacy in orbit module. The computer system is based on MIL-1553 bus, if you're curious of why will China have MIL-1553 system bus, well, maybe you should search on "J-8II Peace Pearl".

[@ThatOpalGuy]

10 inches...yeah, massive.

[@saiboogu]

​@@ThatOpalGuyIt is a significant increase in volume.

[@jeffery7281]

@@ThatOpalGuy You never flown on commercial jets right? That's also the difference between the width of B737 and A320.

[@spinmaster4348]

Ever thought of “Space Shuttle” or “Arian 5” while pulling bull shit over the insulation of LM5? The later one is literally launching on the equator

[@StillAliveAndKicking_]

@@ThatOpalGuyThat is a lot, take a look at the Soyuz interior, it is very cramped. 10” extra width means far more volume, far greater crew comfort.

[@SergeyUdaltsov]

13:40 Small correction: the petal-based system was not first designed for Buran but actually for Soyuz-Apollo project. Otherwise - thank you very much for the interesting video!

[@ioresult]

When Scott Manley starts using Juno instead of KSP for demos, it's a sad day for KSP. ⚰

[@GreyDeathVaccine]

Never heard of Juno

[@KellyWu04]

Scott Manley has been using Juno: New Origins in his videos for months if not over a year by now. It’s better for things that can’t be easily modeled in KSP, as you just download someone’s craft instead of hoping someone made a part mod for the parts of whatever spacecraft you want to show.

[@KellyWu04]

@@GreyDeathVaccineJuno: New Origins was covered by Scott Manley in a video from about a year ago. You can watch that.

[@ioresult]

@@KellyWu04 thanks. I wasn't paying attention before but the recent news about KSP2 made me take notice.

[@thekinginyellow1744]

Didn't Scott's channel start as just a Kerbal thing?

[@FireCrack]

Just a pronunciation note because these things are often tough, "Mengzhou" in Standard Chinese is pronounced more similarly to how an English speaker would say "mung" in the first syllable (eg, "uh" sound instead of the long "e"). Obviously this still won't be perfect pronunciation (lacking tones) but it's a bit closer to it.

[@lagrangewei]

mung actually sound further than meng from what it suppose to sound like.

[@FireCrack]

@@lagrangewei yeah, I kinda also had a second thought too, because "mung" could also be very far from correct. Really need to brush up on IPA to get a reasonable answer here, because English pronunciation can be very ambiguous.

[@jamest18]

It's very unfortunate the three biggest players in space flight have never truly gotten along. Imagine what we could have seen with the US and Soviet Union working together in the 60s and now what the US, Russia, and China could do if we all got along. What a world that would be.

[@heyykenn9099]

Well the same could be said here on Earth. Imagine a world where countries cooperate with each other. If we can cooperate in space, why not also on earth

[@alexgood1056]

они и так сотрудничают, в основном благодаря коррупции и в области шпионажа по принципу враг моего врага мой друг, благо конкурирующих разведок в мире предостаточно, так что диффузия знаний неостановима.

[@HrLBolle]

the fact that Wernher von Braun and his top engineers where snatched by the US, who than failed to understand and exploit the treasure trove of knowledge regarding rocketry they had claimed, not by chance but by design of von Braun himself, still irks me. the fact that the Soviets became the first to establish a presence in orbit although they could only rely on the engineers and knowledge base of level 3 and below is quite fascinating.

[@alexgood1056]

@@HrLBolle член НСДАП барон вернер фон браун вывез с собой в США архив массой 43 тонны и весь коллектив специалистов своего КБ, что-то из этого всяко американцам пригодилось.

[@HrLBolle]

@@alexgood1056 danke für das schließen von Wissenslücken. Es gibt immer jemanden der mehr weiß als man selbst. Thanks for closing the knowledge gaps. There is always someone who knows more than you.

[@AlexSchendel]

The footage of the space station in Juno at the end has reminded me that I need to play Juno again. Very underrated space game.

[@CryptoJones]

I googled this and realized I had it in my Steam Library! Thanks for calling out the name of the game!

[@AlexSchendel]

@@CryptoJones yeah! Was originally called Simple Rockets 2, but they renamed it to "Juno: New Origins" with a big update a while back haha.

[@Lurthatgurl]

I just found your channel and have been binge watching the last 2 days, I love everything space. So glad I found you!!

[@diraziz396]

That picture of LC. Yang Leway holding UN & Chinese Stitched Flag is Very important. surprising even.

[@edcallahan9536]

Always great content and contextual coverage - thank you!

[@BigBrotherHal2001]

Interesting video thanks for sharing Scott

[@MattLitkeRacing]

My trip to Cape Canaveral is next week. I planned it last year just happens I might see the Starliner

[@ThatOpalGuy]

good luck. dont bet on boeing being ready by then, sadly.

[@MattLitkeRacing]

@@ThatOpalGuy at least I’ll see a Starlink launch lol

[@andyonions7864]

If it's Boeing, it ain't going...

[@MattLitkeRacing]

@@andyonions7864 they take the saying that takeoffs are optional to heart

[@CryptoJones]

Great video, Scott! Thank you for making it!

[@ronschlorff7089]

Yup! "Great Scott, another video"!! LOL ;D

[@AlteredBuzzard]

Something I did in KSP is strap 2 boosters to the side of a larger payload to get it into orbit. Imagine Delta IV Heavy but a space station with an interstage instead of a full stage. Was wondering how practical would having stages mounted horizontally instead of Virtically would be? Obviously we're now seeing Falcon Heavy but they're just the launcher.

[@StYxXx]

Oh poor dog :( There's really no need to send animals into space for testing. In the 60s one might argue that the effects of space and zero gravity were unknown. But 20-25 years ago? Cheap sensors would give any information needed.

[@Nielsblog]

The orbital module being its own independent spacecraft seems like such an obvious idea in retrospect.

[@mecha37000fighter]

I loved this video, would love to see this turn into a series

[@killerkip1]

It's neat to see the technological and human aspect to this vs the pure political aspect. It's neat seeing what humanity can do, regardless of the political climate.

[@trevortaylor5501]

Pretty sure the angara 5 is being prepared for human flight with a new Orel capsule being incorporated. The have pretty ambitious plans over the next 5 years.

[@ronschlorff7089]

I made a flying model rocket of that one, along with some other Soviet launch vehicles, have not launched it yet, but the Soyuz, and Vostok both fly great!! :D

[@olasek7972]

Russians have always had such „ambitious” plans that by now they were supposed to have base on the Moon 😂. That guy Rogozin was always promising something spectacular.

[@ronschlorff7089]

@@olasek7972 Right, and old time NASA did too. We were supposed to have even Mars explorations and bases by the 1980's, but changing "world events" always get in the way of such "ambitious" plans. That's true, particularly in democracies, where our leadership changes often occur, back and forth, 180 degrees, every four years or so!! That makes it hard to plan "long term" projects!! ;D

[@olasek7972]

@@ronschlorff7089 actually no, no NASA administrator ever engaged in such nonsensical boastful propaganda as Rogozin, with NASA, you could always check what was approved by Congress, what was funded and what projects were currently in the pipeline.

[@denslipped]

It's not "objectively better"))). Soyuz is a self-sufficient spacecraft. 1. The Soyuz manned spacecraft has been a means of delivery to the ISS for more than 20 years. It doesn't need a large orbital module to do this. A regular household compartment is sufficient, where cabinets and a toilet are located. Let me remind you that during the ASTP flight, four cosmonauts and astronauts were placed in the household compartment of the Soyuz. 2. The reason for the use of the Soyuz spacecraft so far in the latest modification of 2016 is that this spacecraft is the "rescue ship" of the ISS. 3. The descent vehicle of the Shenzhou spacecraft is completely copied from the Soyuz-T lander modification in scale. Yes, it turned out to be longer, but in the case of transport operations to the station, it does not matter, since the crew is delivered to the ISS today at a regular launch of about 3 hours. 4. The latest modification of Soyuz - MS (upgraded systems) has a fully digital system and interfaces, including a new remote control. As for the periscope, this "Vzor" system is left for additional security, which is not mentioned in this video. 5. As for solar electric panels that do not rotate on a gimbal, this is a vestige of the fact that this design has been used for more than half a century, but it is also a smaller weight of this design for the instrument and assembly compartment.

[@KVP424]

Single stick version of Long March 10 apparently will have it maiden flight in 2025 or 2026. So I assume they plan to test Mengzhou again when that rocket is ready.

[@TomDrez]

Sure gotta be soon enough considering the developpement of all flight elements has ended at least 3 years ahead of schedule.

[@stellarsub-orbital9922]

Love the Juno footage! I dont have KSP, so its great that my favorite space game is getting some love.

[@waxeggoil3130]

Congratulations on better pronunciation of chinese. You're nearly there, Scott.

[@WangOrange]

Thank you Scott for telling unbiased stories! I’ve been following you when I was studying and working in Australia. Now I’m back in China, you are still my go-to source for space news and knowledge.

[@satweavers1]

I was chatting with James Oberg once, talking about spacecraft that had components made of WOOD! He told me that the early Chinese recon satelites had film return capsules with heat shields made of OAK!!

[@samiru6521]

"They bought a few suits, took them apart and then just copied them". Sounds like a pretty smart move to start your own space program when you are a bit late on it, instead of just wasting time and money to figure out to make a new one on your own.

[@MoonWeasel23]

I still love that the Chinese used freaking wood for their heat shields. Meanwhile on Orion…

[@ThatOpalGuy]

they are making some satellites with wood as well.

[@JacquesMartini]

K.I.S.S.!

[@AAAAAA-tj1nq]

@@ThatOpalGuy lol anti China bot

[@2hotflavored666]

@@AAAAAA-tj1nq Lol pro China bot

[@sweetybnz7482]

And meanwhile on Starship uncontrolled re entry is how it's done.

[@martinilopez1]

great video scott!!

[@EricaCalman]

It's almost like having literally 10x the GDP buys you some more engineering work hours.

[@Andreas-gh6is]

It's not the size of the GDP but how you use it. For several decades Russia has spent too much of its GDP - or rather the GDP of the other states in the Soviet Union (without asking them of course) on this technology. And they are still far far ahead of China in most regards. The recent progress in Shenzhou are partly the result of Putin being Xi's little bitch ...

[@DIREWOLFx75]

Eh, actually, China has "only" about 5 times as many STEM graduates per year as Russia. And Russia has by far the highest average quality STEM graduates in the world. Meanwhile, Russia also graduates twice as many STEM graduates per year as USA... With less than half the population. That's when you kinda realise there's an issue somewhere.

[@Andreas-gh6is]

@@DIREWOLFx75 Russian STEM graduates suck by comparison with the rest of the world. But yeah, the US education system sucks bigger eggs. Also, the ultimate intelligence test for Russian STEM graduates is the question if they want to stay in this doomed country that may send them into battle at any time.

[@EricaCalman]

@@DIREWOLFx75 well idk about highest quality coming from Russia but they do have a good education system and more STEM graduates per capita. It’s a testament to those things that Russia has kept up at all but China the US are clearly ahead by merit of just throwing sheer resources at Spaceflight.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

​@@DIREWOLFx75 The Chinese education system is geared towards producing competent STEM workers, so while STEM graduate numbers are roughly equal to the US on a per-capita basis, the number of STEM workers is much higher than in either the US or Russia. These are the technicians and machinists and non-academic researchers who have vocational STEM training but no college degree. In China these people are absorbed by SoEs and trained up with on-the-job education. So you end up, for example, with a coal engineer who never went to any kind of university but holds a professorship in power plant engineering (rewarded by the Chinese Academy of Sciences) and publishes engineering papers three times a year from their work on the field. All the actual university graduates line up for internship with them.

[@joemag6032]

Technology builds upon previous technology. Surely most people know that. For example, newer computers are much faster than older computers. That does not mean that newer engineers are better than older engineers. It just means that newer engineers can take advantage of the work that older engineers did.

[@glencmac]

GREAT POST!!! Learned a lot. Do you think we will ever see a Shenzhou docked at the ISS, or a Dragon at the Chinese Space Station?

[@cacciatore9147]

Don’t forget Wolf Amendment of the US.

[@roriegilligan8134]

That's not a matter of technology, but diplomacy

[@StillAliveAndKicking_]

No. The West has zero trust of China, so they won’t allow any Chinese taikonauts onto Western spacecraft.

[@alexgood1056]

это возможно только в чрезвычайных аварийных обстоятельствах как в фильме "Гравитация",когда дипломатия должна уступить ради спасения людей на орбите, так что лучше не надо.

[@BarsMonster]

I like the joke that diameter of space capsule is defined by distance between horse arses in Roman empire times when moving cargo, as this is what defined railroad max dimensions later on... :-)

[@wowtim62]

Hey there why didn't you answer the question between the dog, monkey, or rabbit which was the Capt

[@LLH7202]

I was going to ask that, too. It sounds like the start of a joke. "A monkey, a dog and a rabbit are launched into space..."

[@SebSN-y3f]

Well, that's obvious: it's known as "Follow the ... rabbit!".

[@MadMorgie6318]

The three module setup makes a lot of sense even if you have a fatter rocket to work with, as it saves mass by making it so you need a smaller volume and mass to reenter. There was a very similar setup to Soyuz and Shenzhou submitted by General Electric, the Apollo D-2. The big visual difference was the aerodynamic shroud remaining in place.

[@MoritzvonSchweinitz]

Such a pity that we can't all just get along in space, and cooperate. It's impressive what China managed to build up rather quickly. Imagine that, but with international cooperation!

[@dewayneblue1834]

Yes and no. "International cooperation" can also result in adding a lot of complexity and costs with no measurable return.

[@hammerr]

The reason they developed so fast and are banned from the space station is that they stole every bit of technology where they could

[@moss550]

Most likely they wouldn't have came as far as they have if US didn't banned them. NASA programs are not known to be on time or on budget, and Galileo has shown ESA is more of a hindrance to their development.

[@Ithirahad]

International competition is part of the reason that Tiangong exists in the first place. Sometimes cooperation just results in a mess - "too many cooks" with all the cooks being national governments full of little factions with competing local interests... is very bad news.

[@Freak80MC]

I think human psychology is such that cooperation will always be less likely to give good results than good old competition. Humans naturally only innovate when in a competitive environment.

[@rickace132]

China is now developing a new space capsule that will have a first stage reusable rocket. It will debut in the near future.

[@librettotamre144]

Isn't everybody's suit a copy of the Russian suit? Space station, manned aircraft.

[@SOR-05]

I’ve always liked how all of the different space programs have such iconic looks to them.

[@maiaemmett2399]

I really appreciate that this video was well grounded and nuanced, especially with how it praised and appreciated China's ingenuity in Shenzhou's development. This was a real good video.

[@denslipped]

The Fentyan space suit is a redesigned copy of the Orlan-M space suit, which has not been used on the ISS for a long time. Currently, space suits of the Orlan-MKS modification are used on the ISS - they are fully computerized and have a plastic sealing layer. They also have a nadir porthole on the helmet, which is now usually closed due to the use of hoods from American spacesuits with an American television system.

[@judet2992]

0:45 Just like the Soviets with the Voshkod based satellites but reversed!

[@reis1185]

Technology Transfer

[@steveboy2012]

Thanks Scott on doing a Chinese session. Thanks for broadening my perspective on what is happening with other nations rockets. Please keep this going!! Maybe India next??

[@Nowhereman10]

Without Russia's need for cash in the 1990s, it probably would've taken at least another ten years or so for China to develop something similar to Shenzhou in capability, and who knows how much longer for something like Tiangong.

[@TomDrez]

The chinese wouldn't even have developped Tiangong if the U.S didn't decided the ban them from the iss, they just needed it because of that political move, they're perfectly capable, you know both the ussr and the chineses had a rather rough century, they were both respectively invaded and colonized, and they had bigger fish to fry like educating their population and resolving poverty, all the while they had to rebuilt their cities, farm, roads and life from millions of dead, the U.S that seized the opportunity to rule over a destroyed world after ww2 shouldn't even have been catched up on if it was an efficient country, however it is not and it's never been.

[@saadisave]

​@@TomDrez the USSR was colonized? It was the colonizer; The direct descendant of the Russian Empire, however vehemently it may have disputed it.

[@TomDrez]

@@saadisave I said respectively, china was colonized, ussr was invaded by (unprovoqued) nazis who slaughtered 26 millions peoples, russians were the victims of the most brutal genocide by far in the whole history, yet all that interested our leaders are the genocide on the jews who did 20 millions victims less, i'm not going to argue over the number 6 millions killed is still an scandalous massacre, however it was way worse for the russians. What ussr managed to do while having lost so many people to the germans, and with the need to rebuilt, plus massive sanctions and isolation from the west, lack of ressources, and inevitables internal struggles due to the overall situation, was simply astonishing. Same deal with China, the ccp just had no reasons to be the winners of the war, they were fighting nationalists backed by americans, and japaneses who had colonized them after europeans, we can also add 3 warlords factions, all had vast armies and a technological advantage and more ressources, and the ccp simply couldn't rely on ussr in thoses time, yet they managed to assemble the majority of the population behind them, tired of the persecution of the armies of Chiang Kai-shek, and the humiliation of the invaders, that's the sole reason why the ccp could win, because they were favored by the people over the others... Ussr and china did expanded on territories that we can argue were originally not their own, but that's still their areas of influence nevertheless, culturally and historically speaking, it's still way more legitimate by a mile than any european country colonizing africa or some far away place... Plus considering what kind of hell was unleashed on both of thoses nations till only a few decades ago, it's rather hypocritical to ask/tell them anything now that they're reaching height that we don't want them to reach, particularly so when westerners countries are still delivering extremely unfair and brutal wars all over the place for oil and seizing different assets for specualtive purposes. I can talk however i want for what my country is doing i'm french and i do have a negative view on our colonisation, i'm not thinking i have to be sorry for the descendants of the peoples our ancestor killed however i do wish we would just leave them be, my gov don't seem to be agreeing with this. In this moment New Caledonia (is that the right name in english?) is revolting over a new set of law that was passed by our gov, they're mostly independantist and i'm agreeing with this, we have nothing legitimate to do on the other side of the planet.

[@jamesmandahl444]

@saadisave lol

[@TomDrez]

@@saadisave My comment was instantly deleted amazing, it was a huge brick so i'm going to that again but i did said "respectively" ussr was invaded china was colonized.

[@Worldball12345]

This is a fascinating comparison! The Shenzhou program indeed showcases how technological evolution can refine and enhance existing designs. While the Soyuz has been a reliable workhorse with an impressive safety record, Shenzhou benefits from modern advancements and innovations. The ability to integrate new materials, updated electronics, and improved life support systems has allowed Shenzhou to overcome some of the limitations inherent in the Soyuz design. It's a great reminder of how iterative improvements and technological borrowing can lead to significant advancements in space exploration. Your point about Shenzhou being the best operational human-rated spacecraft between the Shuttle and Dragon eras is a compelling insight into the dynamic nature of space technology development.

[@oneplot5132]

Thanks really great you spent time on Chinese space development, very neglected area ❤

[@foxtraner]

A deliberate attempt to keep you think the west is still a space dominant player, until well the Chinese set up a moon base😢

[@The_Dark_Lord-69]

14:00. Wrong, the original docking system was designed by the Soviet Union. Not Ukraine.

[@paulsengupta971]

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive are they?

[@АлександрОрлов-о3б]

@@paulsengupta971 Actually, they are. The author claims that the system was developed by Ukraine and that early Russian attempts to replace it resulted in a collision between the Progress spacecraft and the MIR station. But the developer of the Kurs docking system is the Research Institute of Precision Instruments, which is located in Moscow. Only the production of components was located in Kyiv - that is, “Ukraine” is not even a developer. In post-Soviet times, due to rising prices from Ukraine, Russia decided to abandon production in Ukraine. Progress M34 actually collided with the MIR station module, but docking then took place not using the Kurs system, but using TORU - a remote manual control system, which is a backup system.

[@MarcoTedaldi]

Curious Marc has an awesome series where they restore and explain the sojus globe...

[@scottmanley]

Yes they do, it was an amazing piece of hardware in the 1960's

[@christopherlawley1842]

still is

[@wildfire8126]

China's foreign exchange reserves rose by $19.8 billion last month to $3.246 trillion, the world's largest, compared with $3.21 trillion in a Reuters analyst poll in February. April 7, 2024

[@大案要案命案在身]

据我所知中国政府对航天计划的投资只有美国的十分之一。中国人均收入还很低所有

[@randbarrett8706]

Whatever else you want to say about PRC, they’re able to commit to projects in a way that is not possible in USA

[@mduckernz]

One of the few advantages of a dictatorship, yes

[@howilearned2stopworrying508]

@@mduckernz maybe once our govt starts banning websites they can become commies and give us subsidized housing and healthcare too

[@Mia_Waiting]

Which more important? Hmm... 1) Create Digital Control System 2) Avoid nearby villages with discarded boosters..

[@KVP424]

Well from what I gather those thing are more of a problem for inland Southern Launch site. Different department of their space program and all that…

[@petemulhearn7787]

"Inspired by Soyuz" Is that a polite way of saying copied from Soyuz? 😂

[@mbican]

Is every car a copy of Model T?

[@philipkudrna5643]

Very interesting! Thanks for bringing these insights to us, as they are rarely covered by western Media. I believe the difference is that in China everybody is still proud of what he/she is doing and wants to bring their country forward (like in the US in the 1960ies), while in the US the companies involved only seem to ask „how can I get a maximum amount of money from the government without actually doing anything“. (With SpaceX and probably the Sierra Nevada Corporation being the only exceptions, but definitely not Boeing!)

[@fontenbleau]

You need to learn a special chinese term, almost a public standard called "Tofu cement". They built a gazillion "tofu" cement objects, it's exactly the same problem like USSR - make more to complete work plan or make better and be deprived from salary bonuses.

[@quattrocity9620]

If it hadn't been for China's Shenzhou, I'd have been married a long time ago.

[@camojoe83]

You should listen to the real version of that song.

[@quattrocity9620]

@@camojoe83 I wasn't aware there was a non-real version

[@camojoe83]

@@quattrocity9620 the one by the wet brain disco turkeys is not the real one. The real one is about someone that has to spend his life watching over a relative that was beaten by prison guards into a blind, broken man and sent home.

[@quattrocity9620]

@@camojoe83 hmm never heard of the wet brain disco turkeys

[@VictorZverovich]

Underrated comment

[@pixelkatten]

That pendulum solution is... Unique! Very Uri Tuchman.

[@deanzaZZR]

It's a great achievement for China. Wishing continued safe flying going forward.

[@rastersoft]

I always presumed that the three-part design of the Soyuz was because it had a better volume/weight ratio, because the parachutes and the reentry shield didn't need to support all the habitable volume, but only a part...

[@egstrong]

At least one source mentioned that the first docking attempt with Shenzhou resulted in it bouncing off the target vehicle. APAS was designed for a much larger spacecraft and wasn’t really suitable for something as small as a Shenzhou. After a few tries, they were able to successfully dock after backing up and getting up to ramming speed and get enough force to allow a solid docking.

[@xinyiquan666]

NS, shenzhen has 100% success in all its mission, chinese space mission has highest success rate in world, while US and soviet, russia all have many failsures, you novel is baseless

[@daviddeng2041]

For those who might not know, in 8:35 , several of them had been on space for more than 1 time.

[@ibnbattuta1304]

China's space program is very slow and methodical. Even Shenzhou 8 was uncrewed just to test their first docking with the prototype Tiangong station. They could be ready for a lunar landing in 2030, but they'll delay it until all tests are done.

[@dosmastrify]

Just happened to check KZbin and then this is posted a minute ago. Fancy!

[@Nilguiri]

What are the chances!?

[@General12th]

Hi Scott! Land safe!

[@ericjohnson2193]

If anyone ever visits Beijing, on the NE corner of the Olympic park, there's a full scale model of their space station at their Science and Technology museum. Its the first thing you see in the lobby. Not within the ticketed area.

[@yangshujian]

Technically, it is the mockup of the core module, not the entire space station.

[@Desyo-wn7ib]

Why better ? At the moment it is better to see both countries China and Russia as collaborators At a level that any country can envy them,

[@jourdanjackson5365]

Well duhhh. It's 30 years newer. What do you expect.

[@nivitoachumi2991]

Well, Americans built rockets to land on the moon 60 years ago, they can't do it now.

[@SomeoneFromBeijing]

China’s space programme definitely learnt a lot from the USSR, Russia, and Ukraine. But like you said, it would be wrong to say these are just copies of their technologies. It is pretty clear at this point that Russia is lagging behind by a lot.

[@PinkLittleElephant]

On the other side, the Russians have vast experience of manned space flight and especially space stations. They know what works and what can go horribly wrong so it is worth paying for them to consult and advise

[@m.a3914]

@@PinkLittleElephant What Russia lacks is money and access to more modern digital technologies. The total investments in space from the US are over 70 billion USD. Russia, only 3 billion

[@basilshauvet8761]

It’s always very interesting to learn something about the Ukrainian space program

[@RJ-xy5rv]

Scott, not on topic but I have a question for you and anyone else with enough knowledge. Could spacex put receiver dish on every one of their satellites pointing out to space and create a lot of super large radio type Telescopes?

[@controlfreak1963]

I kind of assumed that long ago. Russia's education system collapsed around 1985 so most of their engineers are retiring or dead. They've been outsourcing their technical people for decades and have been cruising on USSR tech to this day.

[@MrSkipLim]

The Russian education system has remained exactly the same, look at various international tournaments, Olympiads and competitions in physics, mathematics and programming

[@scottmanley]

Indeed, it's more that opportunities for the smart, well educated people are much better elsewhere.

[@controlfreak1963]

@@MrSkipLim I worked as a control engineer for an american oil company in Russia about a decade ago before I retired. I learned from the locals that most of the technical schools collapsed in the 80's. The universities still exist for those that can afford them but the level of technical education dropped like a rock compared to the USSR days. The US also used to fund more technical education when I was younger than today so we are in something of a similar situation (although not as critical) as we outsourced to China over the last 30 years.

[@eirinym]

To be honest at this point Starliner should just be cancelled. Don't know if a door will blow out.

[@Dmitriy_Goryainov]

Skott Manley is an amazingly observant person. A visionary of our era! 🤭

[@8600GTX]

Yang Liwei scar is cause by microphone during landing.

[@sushimixy2k]

Shenzhou is better because Chinese citizens below the flight path get to have an unique personal rocket learning experience when the toxic pieces land on or near their house.

[@dewayneblue1834]

"Rocket roulette".

[@redtails]

research and development is independent of nationality/religion/gender/etc and it all stands on the shoulders of the previous group. Best is to collaborate, but if you end up just outright buying / copying IP, it doesn't ultimately make a difference

[@Stealth86651]

I mean that's like wondering why a new Toyota's better than a Ford Model T. The entire generations worth of time that's passed might have something to do with it, at least Russia actually got to space before a ton of the work/research was already done.

[@S1nwar]

speaking of blatantly copying everything from other nations whats your estimate when the chinese Starship copy will be operational, the Long March 9?

[@artemplatov1982]

Their copy will reach moon faster than Elmo

[@tluangasailo3663]

long march 9 full reeusable version is 2040s

[@Noneya-bw5gm]

And Crew Dragon makes them both look like a rickshaw

[@ThatOpalGuy]

lol. patience. Dragon will have its day of failure.

[@Noneya-bw5gm]

@@ThatOpalGuy Pretty morbid of you.

[@basilshauvet8761]

​@@Noneya-bw5gmmorbid it's when you go to the toilet in a small room with 4 crew members

[@inemanja]

People don't understand that when someone makes a copy for himself - he makes it better. That's why Buran was better than a shuttle, and that's also why Shenzhou is better than Soyuz.

[@mduckernz]

Buran better? It didn’t fly though… how can that possibly be known?

[@unownyoutuber9049]

@@mduckernz Well for one it did fly, fully unmanned which the Space Shuttle never could do. It had a higher payload capacity then the Shuttle, and it was safer because it didn't use Solids.

[@paulsengupta971]

The TU-144 wasn't better than Concorde...

[@swordsman1137]

​@@paulsengupta971 to be fair, Tu-144 is rushed and did first flight earlier than Concorde iirc

[@b0tterman]

I know we the U.S. are supposed to be hatin' on China, but gotta give huge respect to all involved in their human space flight programs. Can't wait to see their new capsule.

[@aungaisum8654]

Open your eyes all Americans. China is not your enemy. But your dear leader is😅

[@magnum8264]

GODSPEED SPACEX 🇺🇲 🇺🇲 🇺🇲

[@hanspecans]

Lick more boot.

[@m.a3914]

@@hanspecans SpaceX is amazing in what they do. It is not licking but acknowledgement

[@boris3736]

Thx for this video. I will definitely pick shenzhou instead of souyz when i'll fly to space

[@FeRoOOo71]

the only thing your will ever ride is an old public bus

[@donjones4719]

The Apollo program took only 15 months from the last uncrewed flight test till the Apollo 11 landing.The flight rate for the new Chinese spacecraft could be as rapid. The 3rd uncrewed flight of Apollo was in April 1968. Apollo 7 and 8 flew by December 1968. Apollo 11 was in July 1969, of course. The limiting factor will probably be the lander and maybe the suits but we don't know who long they've been working on those. I have little doubt the methane-fueled F9 clone they're developing will be ready in time - unless the engine is a problem.

[@PEK-97]

I doubt the political will and funding (both the US and China) will be as strong as the Apollo days. Also what does Landspace's Methalox Steel-body F9 have to do with the lunar exploration program? I thought Long March 10 will be used?

[@aungaisum8654]

​@@PEK-97Do you believe Apollo Hollywood stuffs?😂😂😂

[@alexgood1056]

сравнивать программу аполлон с чем либо не корректно, ведь это был больше имиджевый проект с безумным уровнем финансирования, который бессмысленно повторять, ну только если не хочешь разориться и пойти по миру с протянутой рукой.

[@KVP424]

The state run space program might not used those methalox Falcon-9 like rocket. Those are private proposal. State space program own reusable rocket is 5 meter diameter rocket powered by kerolox engine, which will be recovered by string capture system. Their reusable rocket is essentially single stick version of their upcoming Long March 10 modified for reusability. I suspect China state space program will prefer to used state agency made rocket for manned space program, before considering private option if given a choice.

[@KVP424]

@@PEK-97Yeah Landspace Zhuque-3 is mainly trying to tackle megaconstellation demand.

[@mike4769]

Just wait until they introduce the long duck dong rocket.

[@vorlon81]

You thought of this all by yourself. Wow

[@ronschlorff7089]

LOL!!

[@Baamthe25th]

It would be weird if it was merely equivalent or worse, even with the benefit of hindsight and new technology

[@joeyp1927]

In the late 1960s/early 1970s, China was already funding and building a massive project, the Tanzam Railway - Africa's first transcontinental railroad, which cost billions in today's money. It's a big reason why the Shugang manned space project was canceled: China had commitments closer to home, i.e. Planet Earth.

[@MattMcIrvin]

I remember being struck by how slowly they were going, at the beginning, compared to the early US and Soviet programs. Everything seemed very deliberate with long pauses between flights. But they've got the capability to do a lot now.

[@cccc-mj9wx]

money

[@KVP424]

They still are somewhat, China seems to really prefer slow and steady and choosing safe design. Though of course, this usually mean that they usually accomplish goal by it stated date, even if that date might seems far.

[@Lew114]

Thanks! Interesting and entertaining as always.

[@airworks7809]

Appreciate the SimpleRockets2 footage

[@tomservo5007]

Scott is planning a trip to China and needs to bring up his social credit score

[@AAAAAA-tj1nq]

just because he say something positive about China success and it upset you

[@BSnicks]

Well, at least it doesn't depend on the 3 US credit bureau. 😂

[@Rob-tr1st]

Lol I'm pretty sure he isn't upset about it ​@@AAAAAA-tj1nq

[@hanspecans]

You’re a sad person.