T1 wins LCK undefeated / Rogue still LEC favorites? / C9 boom - Summoning Insight S5E9 (feat. Mac)

The first segment of Summoning Insight is brought to you by Esportsbet.io, the only esports cryptocurrency betting matrix. Use the following referral link to receive a 50% DEPOSIT BONUS up to $200: www.esportsbet.io/referral/in...
Join MonteCristo and Thorin with guest James "Mac" MacCormack, head coach of MAD Lions, as they discuss the second round of the LEC playoffs, the LCK grand finals, T1's epic winstreak, Cloud9's playoff collapse, the EG vs Team Liquid playoff series, coaching best practices in esports, and more.
This episode was filmed on April 4th, 2022.
Come join the Insight on Esports Discord for in-depth discussion across esports: / discord
0:00:00 - Cloud9 vs 100 Thieves
0:30:09 - All Pro LCS voting + playing with a crowd
0:35:15 - Future of Cloud9
0:43:32 - Team Liquid vs Evil Geniuses
0:55:12 - Mac intro + Rogue vs Fnatic
1:34:35 - Mental states during the series
1:41:27 - G2 vs Vitality
1:48:21 - G2 vs Misfits
2:01:29 - Fnatic vs G2 preview
2:18:06 - Who can be the "X factor" for G2?
2:28:26 - LEC predictions
2:34:24 - LCK Final opening ceremony
2:46:06 - T1 vs Gen.G
3:09:26 - Peanut and Chovy
3:20:24 - Viewer Questions: LPL vs LCK
3:25:41 - LoL World Cup
3:27:01 - G2 fast food meal
3:28:26 - Greatest esports GOAT
3:30:24 - What happened to Piccaboo?
3:31:04 - Socrates or Diogenes?
3:31:45 - Ideal esports capstone
3:33:42 - Bengi question
#LEC
#LoLEsports
#LoLPodcast
#ESBIntro

[@user-ll8yy6ev6q]

T1 was tested before the game and the result was negative. Stop saying it's sus Monte.

[@user-ie9uq3xl5d]

As korean the storylines of OGN were insane

[@MistahGamah]

Keria mentioned that T1 intentionally played flippier because of COVID. They felt that they were on a timer and that they would only get worse in a long series-Keria says he himself got headaches and cognitive fog halfway through the series-so they didn't play as rigorously as they normally would have. Agree that it's weird four players all had false negative tests just before the event... but what incentive do they have to cover up their tests? Weren't remote games allowed for playoffs? They would've just played from home anyway (assuming they're well enough to play, which they were)

[@johngo3715]

I imagine winning the finals wouldn't be a complete experience had they not played live.

[@weihaokow8660]

sometimes it takes a while for results to turn positive despite having symptoms

[@jookespark3707]

@@weihaokow8660 yep I was sick for 4 days before my tests became positive

[@Serenity-117]

@@jookespark3707 Can support this. At my job (medical field) we tell people NOT to get tested until about 3-4 days after their symptoms show up because the tests will pretty much be useless until the virus has taken enough of a foothold in the body.

[@hunterkillerai]

@@jookespark3707 Same tested twice when I have symptoms. First time 2 days into symptoms and test came back negative. Four days later I tested again and it's positive.

[@kaliver517]

Thanks for prompting me to go back and watch the opening ceremony. Man, 10 years of memories, reminded me of so many teams and players I haven't thought about in what feels like forever, and to have many of them on stage was really neat. Ultimately, it's just sad that through the entire life cycle of this game, people external to Riot are going to care more about the history of the game than Riot does itself.

[@damroll]

Just to clarify, T1 did get tested pre-game using self-kit. PCR test wouldn’t have helped anyway because they weren’t going to get the results in time.

[@timbradshaw5481]

Source?

[@damroll]

@@timbradshaw5481 it comes from both lck and T1. Even GenG had given a statement about it.

[@timbradshaw5481]

@@damroll yeah btu where does t1 say this?

[@insaein]

@@timbradshaw5481 Joe Marsh (T1 CEO) said on twitter that the players tested negative on the day of the finals

[@timbradshaw5481]

@@insaein okay thanks

[@Slashresto]

The one thing i love about this T1 team is how decisive they are when they take engagements , they dont go in 1 or 2 at a time and die , they go in all 5 at the same time and they always follow up on one players play for good or bad and its what makes them so succesfull. Most teams seem to get suprised by their fast decisionmaking and decisiveness.

[@remulas13]

An overwatch coach once said, 'if 1 person makes a stupid play, it's a mistake. If the whole team makes a stupid play, it's a strategy'

[@louhawk7361]

2:52:00 they didn’t say no test were given. They got the test and all of them are negative, which is possible since The test can comeback negative for the first few day of covid.

[@Shiriusa]

1:01:00 I absolutely agree with montecristo lck storylines made the lck finals intro epic, so far lcs pigeon has more storylines than some lcsplayers

[@6666Imperator]

Personally I love the Worlds intros with the music acts and stuff. I never liked the lck that much not because of the intro but because of the playstyle there. I agree with Monte that telling storylines and highlighting players is important but the intros to worlds was epic each year so far. In my opinion a mixture of both would be great. Like do a feature of the stories before the opening show or something

[@Shiriusa]

@@6666Imperator I don't think the intent was that one is better than the other, worlds song does great each year because people want to see who and how the players are featured, an opening with the best of both sides would be epic and in that sense I feel like they have neglected the players aspect, we see it each year, the players spotlight at worlds finals get shorter and shorter, fusing the two is the right call but I'm not optimistic they'll actually do it

[@Zwijger]

Mac is actually such a good guest on talkshows. I do not have a smart reason why, keep up the good work Mac. Edit: I do have a smart point, at 2:04:44, when he says you need a veteran player to call Hylli out on "bluff plays", because that's for example what Odoamne did against Hylli in their Bo5, when he was clearing a pink acting like he had people to follow up.

[@Kjets845]

Wow, someone who actually realized that Keria always soaks a wave to get 6 first before herald fights Not many people see it, but it's always such a huge power spike and not many supports do it worldwide, they just give it to the adc and fight at 5.

[@robelbeyenemayzser5312]

?? lmao beryl used to do that, its not something special or new

[@yelsu3358]

Beryl was the first to do this

[@crayon_logic444]

It was a strat made by Damwon. People highlighted it a lot when they first did it.

[@Kjets845]

@@robelbeyenemayzser5312 did I say it was new? Did I say Keria invented it? Literally all I said was that most supports don't do it and most people don't acknowledge it

[@robelbeyenemayzser5312]

@@Kjets845 ur trying to make it sound like it’s something special when it’s not lmao it’s not a big deal mate

[@KleinpeterHank]

3:29:10 But… Faker was also winning lck titles when he was winning worlds

[@JulianaReiterer]

T1 did get tested before the finals. LCK runs an official protocol. People are not allowed in the venue if they dont have a test. But with Omicron, as someone who's had it as well, it takes some time to get the positive tests results. I already had the first symptoms and did several home tests that were negative but I ofc already had COVID, it just wasn't shown on the tests yet. :D

[@kiyotakaayanakoji1120]

actually was waiting for the peanut rant from thorin. I like it

[@opskipp1543]

In Korea, can get a formal examination at a hospital only when COVID-19 is confirmed in own kit. Unless paying the hospital extra money, According to Keria, the players paid extra money the next day for a paid examination at a hospital and were diagnosed with COVID-19.

[@johnzenzen9666]

Love that monte started the LCK segment by shouting out the finals intro. I really found that to be quite special.

[@copacu7354]

I like the player perspective you present in this video, makes you understand how the champion picks work

[@NoradNoxtus]

Monte's rant about the LCK finals production is heartwarming.

[@genovaz]

I really wish I we get the t1 comms from that game 3 baron fight because T1 had to know they were staggered on the collapse, and would have lost if chovy was with his team right? So they were hard committing to faker and guma being able to push through then zone out the lb/yuumi combo, without vision.

[@ryry8393]

They released the coms for baron fight g3 after the highlights, have you seen it?

[@danielshamlian2800]

2:38:24 - my favorite quip in a while I love Mac. I do. I really appreciate his insight and what he does with his teams and the respect he has for his players. But it still scares me after this split when he talks about the best team in the world not picking up early dragons, when it looks like his team really needed to lean into picking up early dragons this split. It really is crazy that Chovy doesn’t speak in game. It really brings a darker quality to Griffyn’s silent teamfighting, when they looked like the best tf team in the world. That was brilliance when it was happening, but having that success seemed to reinforce some habits that don’t work everywhere else.

[@silvertigra4117]

I think Monte didn't think that the test was before or the day before since rehearsals is where T1 got tested negative but it was during the the event that they were feeling ill and I think it was during rehearsals as the day off they got tested that they got covid but they absolutely still performed well enough to play and it didn't really change much of there game play but just the calls since the players just inherently are good at the game so the calls were a little off like it explains why they get a flip in most cases so I hope they do get well and be ready for msi cause rumors say and even players like doinb say T1 is ending scrims with lpl teams under 10mins and ls saying the west is so unlucky to face T1 right now so there are hints around the the league that T1 will win msi

[@Derren82]

I watched one of Keria's streams after finals where he mentioned "If the series went to 5 games, we would've been doomed" only because of how shit everyone was feeling. So in that case, it makes sense that T1 did some very coin flip fights and especially Game 2 where they were just forcing a lot of fights to end the game as soon as they could despite it being more risky than how they usually play. To them, they were probably on a mental/physical timer.

[@nickdaboss03]

That was the longest sentence I have ever read

[@laisensei6984]

@@Derren82 Good thing that GenG failed to keep their discipline in game 4 and just completely fell apart. If they kept their discipline and play game 4 up to their standard, T1 may just have to succumb to their physical condition as the game gets dragged on.

[@deviantnia]

12 year old take

[@Derren82]

@@laisensei6984 Yup! GenG pretty much fell apart topside Game 4. Really screwed up their draft as well by making Chovy play utility after his amazing Ahri LB games. Ruler was consistent as he could've been despite receiving no resources to exploit the fact that Keria was perma roaming. Very unfortunate for GenG, but as a T1 fan, T1 played to their strengths and shut GenG in typical T1 fashion. This was a long reply, sorry about that.

[@LK2909]

Mac is very well spoken and could easily be a frontrunner for a permanent podcast project in the future!

[@MrDespisedIcon]

Arnold and Joe Marsh both said all players were tested the day before and on the day and the tests were negative. Also tests aren't always 100% accurate, countless people have had symptoms and received negative tests.

[@Bartimusable]

Well, if they said it, it msut be true.

[@MrDespisedIcon]

@@Bartimusable yeah, I’d rather take the word of two of the biggest LCK teams CEOs rather than Monte who still has beef with Riot Korea.

[@SaarlaneKretiin]

@@MrDespisedIcon i mean depening on the quality of the testers. one was pulled from the shelves for having under 70% accuracy for example where i live

[@MrDespisedIcon]

@@SaarlaneKretiin 30% is still huge

[@hackzlenny2580]

@@SaarlaneKretiin you do understand that tests you can buy are different tests from the one that you get from health workers?

[@mukamuka0]

2:53:56 I watch that fight so many time and I understand Chovy hesitation. Guma jinx is so fed and even before the fight at Baron start, just 2 auto from Jinx and Leblanc lose 40% hp. Even with Yuumi, there's no way Leblanc can hold out. So, he's try to stay away from jinx range but it's not work at the end.

[@Nekromi34]

I remember I was so tilted at worlds when the arcane advertisements came on during finals.

[@Ghisteslohm139]

"Hylissang is the guy whos gonna make you tilt" is a cool quote :D Maybe even sometimes true for his own team x)

[@whatchachattin]

Mac is such a legend

[@kei_r3]

Basically the thing about false negative tests is, even if you have symptoms but is on the early stage of the infection, the viral load (amount of virus) in your body may be on the undetectable level, especially if you are vaccinated and has a strong immune system. We usually tell our patients (yes, I work in the medical field: lab scientist) to get their test done after 5 days of exposure or at least 3 days after the symptoms first started. By then the viral load will be on detectable levels and the kits will work properly. T1 may have done the RT-PCR test the day after the finals (I'm not really sure on this), hence the positive result. RT-PCR results mostly comes out after 24 hrs or more depending on the machines they use and the workload.

[@DurboxX]

Hope to se vetheo on any team either MSF or another but with 2-3 more promising players and see how he does. He looks great for a rookie.

[@grimjowjaggerjak]

MSF should just buy cinkrof and advienne

[@wesleybeck5411]

I would love to see LS + Mac talk about drafting for an hour staight

[@ims0ul]

To summarize the summer C9 roster discussion: Top Fudge, Jungle Blaber, Mid Nisqy or Jensen, Bot Zven and support Isles?

[@GLvDOS]

I’m glad when Monte and Thorin talked about the gaming GOAT we all thought ‘Flash’ instantly.

[@danielgavish1315]

Whats the betting site they use?

[@liborsysel2234]

I am sorry, but i think we should give our thanks to MAD. Its a treat to have Mac on 2 shiws in a week

[@1luuucca20]

thxThorin. Greetings from China!

[@MusicHound18]

Speaking of that support roam from Keria it was just amazing to see that within like 30 seconds of each play oner ganked top and killed top and like instantly keria shows up mid and forces a flash

[@timbradshaw5481]

Great episode very entertaining. Do you think it's a missed opportunity to not talk to Mac about what happened to MAD at worlds?

[@coybackus7665]

we are still waiting on that c9 studio XD

[@YouScaredMeYt]

I think one thing people haven't talked about enough in the C9 vs 100T series is how they let 100T have so many comfort picks. Like Closer on Lee and Sumday on Ornn. They got solid champs for their botlane. Mid was cozy. It felt like C9 got some good premium picks in the zeri/ryze but also really misread what 100T was getting. They seemed more focused on themselves than the enemy team.

[@beatsbydr.draven1932]

I never thought I'd say this but I actually would like to see C9 lose. Not because I'm bitter at the org or anything, but it feels like the players are the cursed ghosts from Lord of the Rings just ready to be released from their service... As soon as LS was let go the entire Cloud 9 experiment that ALL OF US were excited to watch was over. It ended there. They certainly need to make roster moves in my plebian opinion

[@Monotheist137]

I am not surprised about Malrang at all. The guy subbed Canyon in a middle of the last season. And in some way I agree about LPL being better, but how come Viper or Peanut being in LPL managed to get into worlds, while in LCK they need super teams?

[@mikevu5577]

I kinda disagree with lpl being better. I will agree with it being close.

[@MrThedumbbunny]

Gotta admit BB has looked great in playoffs. I do think the team is punishable because if you ban gnar they have to play for him but he has looked very good.

[@DonRaynor]

The Koreans bought in to LS. Its really damn simple to understand what's going on in C9

[@Bartimusable]

I doubt it was just the Koreans. Fudge clearly bought into LS. Max, from what we can tell, bought into LS. Management didn't. Now they're cashing in that check.

[@hotelbravo7013]

Jack went back on the ethos of the team, not surprised. If only they had more flexibility/creativity in draft, I wonder where they could have gotten that from. Lol

[@DonRaynor]

@@hotelbravo7013 that's why the treatment MaxWaldo is getting is sad. Jack just took giant shit in the team. And threw max to wolves. *pain*

[@XGifuX]

All memes aside summit is deadass on strike no way they stay on the roster at this point

[@silvertigra4117]

You do know ls built this team right from taking berserker and summit since he does have some good ideas for them like the whole roster apart I think blaber is built for ls but things happen and I do think if ls was still in C9 they have be in a really good place and makes the league a little more spicy cause I think in play offs in a bo5 series ls having so many drafts prepared will give C9 a better chance of success

[@tokarigato3228]

Faker vs s1mple? Let me tell you something, 1 guy has been around for almost 10 years and is still competing at the top.

[@zeinmets3550]

The other's been around for almost 9, so that can't really be an argument for who's better.

[@mangomeow7867]

I'm glad you guys are bringing up Chovy's failures. I keep hearing people tell me that he is the best midlaner in the whole world without a doubt, he's so far beyond everyone in the world and he's amazing and blablabla. But really, he gets a cs lead in lane, then fucks off to a sidelane and doesn't impact the game. Chovy only wins the game if he gets to do whatever he wants on the map, at his own pace and nothing goes wrong in the other roles. He doesn't have the x factor or killer instinct at all.

[@mikevu5577]

Thank god. I this there are mid lanes that are better knight, scout, rookies, xaohu. If I was going to give mid lane grade. S: faker, knight, scout, rookies, xaohu A: chovy, caps, perkz, showmaker But I would put showmaker above chovy

[@mlsamson]

TLDR: trade Chovy to T1 and roleswap him to top I've always thought about Chovy as an amazing weapon a team could use. He's near perfect mechanically speaking, but he needs someone to tell him what to do and point him in the right direction in order to get the most out of him. It's infuriating to see him get leads and absolutely do nothing with it. I recently rewatched Faker's 2017 series against RNG and while his and Chovy's laning was extremely similar in the sense that they get insane CS leads in lane, the way Faker leveraged his solo leads to get the other laners gold was night and day. Strictly out of lane, it was like watching a plat player vs a challenger player.

[@TheDarkKnightEE]

would summit to misfits sure up them to be a summer contender?

[@kiyu_u6009]

Man I was reading the Chinese comments on the LCK opening ceremony and some of them are hilarious, especially the comments calling out Riot's marketing. "where are the cars? LPL has taught me there would be a Mercedes-Benz car of every era on stage." 😂

[@chaddude2]

Fudge, Berserker, Winsom, all never played with a crowd. Hope they bounce back and figure it out vs Golden Guardians; the region needs C9 to be competitive.

[@depewfootball59]

Fudge had a crowd at his first world's appearance no?

[@antoniodiamonte3424]

@@depewfootball59 He probably means mid. But putting fudge mid was a bias decision. The guy wasnt even that good at top. And to put him as your midlaner, arguable the most important role of the game and usually the best player of the team, was a big mistake. Fudge is alot worse then berserker and summit and even summit. U can have a setup liek this. Like imagine fudge laning against faker, and him having to the do the 3v3 against keria and oner. Like this was a stupid decision because he ls coached him. Fudge is a midtier midlaner at best in na. If that doesnt tell you everything then i dont know what does.

[@OMAR-vk9pi]

@@antoniodiamonte3424are you slow? He was a very solid top even against international competition you’re lost

[@antoniodiamonte3424]

@@OMAR-vk9pi AHAHAH stop the cap. Hes gonna get shit on so hard in mid, if they even make it. U cant get gapped by abbedagge and go against scout and faker lmao.

[@depewfootball59]

@@antoniodiamonte3424 that has nothing to do with what he said, fudge was a good top and was good vs international tops as well

[@team3am149]

Thorin actually just runs the show, the most based analyst in the entire esports scene. Those viewer questions were also just embarrassingly braindead.

[@nuraby_9228]

Thorin losing his mind at the first viewer question was hilarious.

[@team3am149]

@@nuraby_9228 I did too, to be honest. Whoever came up with those questions were truly brainless.

[@CypherOfSolace]

Monte's LCK opening ceremony rant is exactly why I still remember GE Tigers Ginyu Force intro when they rose onto the stage. kzbin.info/www/bejne/naSpl6ycfpV0gbs

[@ThePolarpop]

Tbh really glad they both immediately jumped on that whole "fakers also playing like this" comment about caps change of playstyle

[@antoniodiamonte3424]

100 procent spot on about chovy thorin. But u cant say this cause of all the ls fanboys who think the guy is the best mid. Like foh the the guy has never been close to the best mid. It seems that critisizing chovy is something that is not allowed. Its always his team. He does everything perfect. Its so cringe. U have faker in his 10th year or some shit, improving and changing his game. Even though hes the goat, and has won everything multiple times. The hunger to win is still there. This guy loses 5 finals in a row and still doesnt think to himself that he should change something. Maybe play around ruler, one of the best adc's in the world, in a meta where botlane is important. No, gotta have my farm, gotta look good for the micro cucks like LS who only care where ur mouse goes after hitting a cs.

[@izcoatpv]

the discussion at around 1:18:50 made me go watch odo's stream reviewing the series vs FNC, it's so funny, malrang and comp also shop up in the chat, but tbf to malrang I think he needed Grump after giving Larssen Blue to hit lvl 6, without it then maybe they wouldn't have turned the dive top

[@lycan7489]

This needs to be said. We are so fucking lucky to have Monte in eSports. His takes are always on point and he genuinely cares about the growth of eSports and it shows. It will be a very sad day if we lose him. Actual GOAT 🐐

[@laisensei6984]

I sure miss the days where we have Monte and DoA casting LCK, and I really would like to see them do another LCK final.

[@hewdelfewijfe]

Hey! I really liked Imagine Dragons at Worlds Final 2014. It made it so much better. I do remember that they overlaid some historical scenes during that musical sequence. I agree that CGI dancing chars on stage is a huge offense.

[@ShinDSER]

But they were doing the Worlds anthem that year. It's normal for the artist to perform the Worlds anthem before the finals. At Worlds 2021, Imagine Dragons appeared as a cross-promotion for Arcane. They had nothing to do with Worlds 2021 aside from that, that's the difference.

[@PraZeEdits]

Prime Score paired with Faker during his prime aswell would have been more memorable duo than Showmaker/Canyon ?

[@zeinmets3550]

KaKAO/Faker would have been even better than Score/Faker for me. If he could duo carry KT to an LCK title with a Rookie that was in his freshman year then imagine what he could have done with prime Faker

[@TheHoruru]

The correct answer is Flash

[@maurienvy]

It's easy to mock Doublelift, but to be completely honest, watching this phase of his career as a "personality" and not a player has been so shocking , Doublelift has such a limited understanding on the world is astonishing.

[@Zwijger]

I do not watch his content, but are there any examples where this is like really obvious? I believe you but I'd like to see for myself. Though it should also be said the LEC geography quiz proved that a lot of pro players are not actually big brained, I doubt it's just Doublelift.

[@mysticsham7430]

It's not surprising DL lacks real life experience, he was pretty much 100% focused on League for past decade+, so him being awkward and new to outside league world should not come as no surprise. In a similar vain, you should pretty much always value his gameplay / player rating over historian like Thorin or even analysts like Monte, because it's what he has lived and breathed and continues to do at the highest level. I feel Thorin just tries to make fun of DL just because they dislike each other, the video he reference with Vulcan it wasn't like DL was giving it a lot of thought to ensure his points were accurate on the other good supports. Also Peter Dun was definitely just trying to vote strategically to make his players have better chances in All Pro voting and not actually on player talent or insider knowledge like Thorin was trying to make it sound.

[@vanidar21]

there actually is a web comic based on the United in Rivalry teams. Unfortunatly its made by BMW and thus not very good

[@skarm7780]

Along with EDG? EDG is out

[@fourohfournotfound]

2:36:00 based

[@tommcdermott2412]

Sometimes I just watch these to see Thorin go on rants and Monte just try to stop himself laughing for long enough to be able to speak haha

[@yarobibraheem4128]

I think Fnatic are going to prepare too much for a rematch with Rouge that they'll end up losing to G2

[@Kirtzgio]

Why do I feel like Monte has some insight on the C9 team booming. There no way it just context clue from their play or what they picking on draft. Kinda of weird 🤔

[@severinkolakov4361]

Max was a toplaner so he just has to shit on him in practice and gain his respect.

[@kkingdrs6630]

They got tested but god a false negative

[@_ketosucks1355]

Show some love to good content :)

[@HlebHD]

Thorin actually didn't go far enough with his C9 LS point.The only player that makes sense in that roster without LS is Blaber.It makes it kinda obvious how clueless C9 management is.They're the best in LCS at the things theyre good at but they're completely clueless when it comes to the game.Im just happy the roster LS build wasn't so strong it would win on it's own and make these idiots think they were right on firing him.Ever since Jensen got benched I was kinda off the C9 train but now im off completely.

[@EpicVideoMaster11]

Chovy Top

[@AadetTube]

Being a C9 fan is so sad atm :(

[@KhazuAMV]

LS died for this

[@jaimeruiz7837]

I eat C9 can tears. You see this L? That bottom left angle? That’s me, edge.

[@MrWizardjr9]

i wonder why no other coach voted for those players then if they were so good in impressive aspects.

[@asilburakyuruk7372]

c9 vs 100 thieves part was all about summit and c9, not even mentioning clutch closer shame..

[@EpicVideoMaster11]

Fiddlesticks in that Game 5 is way better than Nidalee with the comp they drafted

[@Pyrok4r]

The take on the COVID situation is so amazingly poor given we've got 2 years of information on the development of COVID symptoms to work with. Nice narrative pushing.

[@flowiiassistentofficial8854]

i think its mad that t1 are using an almost full team of t1 academy recruits.

[@rickjames-qg7fs]

This iteration of C9 either needs a Nisqy type mid to help get the side lanes fed or a Jensen type of mid who can sit on an island and scale for team fights. Fudge is just a worse version.

[@RomnysGonzalez]

Fudge is on no man lands since LS left. The dude was a supportive mid with was willing to sacrifice his pick in favor of the greater good and playing what is the best match up possible instead of trying to head to head match up the other mid level of play. The current Fudge lack identity. He got the lack of knowledge of match ups to play mid and be effective and C9 is playing him like he's a lane kingdom kind of player when he isn't one yet. C9 coaching staff is setting up for failure with this draft and Fudge well he haven't been playing great or good enough to cause an impact on the game.

[@thomasparramore2005]

TSM dont make playoffs but still within 15 seconds they are mentioned LOL biggest org in esports

[@Picexplorer]

i find monte very anti T1

[@sonnyvarcoe8970]

I think that's mainly due to him pointing out flaws. He praises the current T1 quite a bit but he knows they can be better and he's a fan of greatness more than anything else so he focuses on the negatives. Remember, he was the first on the Korean (back then mainly T1, even bringing a T1 whistle to worlds) hype train. He's also a longtime KT fan, so it's only natural.

[@MrDespisedIcon]

He is/was a KT fan, go look at KT vs SKT history and that should explain it lol he doesn't like SKT at all sadly.

[@ajmamora6332]

His a KT fan for a reason lmao

[@Lilmajudi]

KT fan trolldespair

[@m4ng4n]

@@sonnyvarcoe8970 seconding this. He's a diehard pro-korean lol advocator, if he trashes T1 is because he thinks there's margin for improvement. If, on the contrary, they were hitting rock bottom, he'd focus on the upsides. I mean, if you think about it, 99% of the world only talks about T1 in terms of what they do well, there's no added value in doing the same.

[@Somatic369]

What Jack did to not just C9, but the league scene itself and fans everywhere in removing LS is honestly a crying shame. It's like if someone burned down the Sistine Chapel or tossed a bucket of ink on the Mona Lisa when the works were half completed. Totally unjustifiable, completely unforgivable.

[@fanwee5048]

Agreed. If he wanted to drop LS after a year that’s his business. But he owes the staff, teammates, and LS the opportunity to run his style for at least a year.

[@AcencialAMV]

They kinda ignored Rapha about goat of all esports question

[@skaddyvenom7613]

Monte wdym with "I WANT TO PLAY RENEKTON" stance for Summit like he's a pro player paid HUGE money and he cannot adjust his pick for his teams needs in playoffs? He's just gonna tilts cause he did not get champion he wanted? Weird.

[@technicalleon]

Personally, I think Monte's right on this one. Renekton is pretty bad in the current meta, haven't seen one win in LCS or LCK playoffs, and I think the only reason pros would ever pick it is for comfort. They also discussed why Summit won't easily listen to Max Waldo as a coach since he's probably younger than Summit and Koreans have an age hierarchy.

[@RomnysGonzalez]

@@technicalleon Max is a people pleaser. He would never "Force" a player to play something. I bet the conversations went like this Max: Ok guys. What do we have here?. I think X champion is gonna be good here. A counter to this other champion Summit: I WANT RENEKTON Max: Summit. I don't think Renekton is a good pick. He's bad and is even worse on this situation. Let's play something else Summit: RE...NEK...TON... Max: But Summit... Summit: Lock in Renekton Max: OK GUYS. WE GOT RENEKTON. LETS GOOOOOOO. GG WE WON. DRAFT DIFF. EASY GAME. EEEEASY. JUST PLAY BETTER THAN THEM C9 coaching staff lack leadership, lack a powerful figure who is willing to tell to the players faces. NO. THIS IS A BAD CHAMPION. I WANT YOU TO LEARN AND PLAY OTHER STUFF. WE NEED YOU TO LEARN OTHER MATCH-UPS. C9 Roster lack someone they can look up to and respect. They don't have that. They are a bunch of kids doing whatever the heck they want without someone telling them to grow up and follow instructions

[@icecreamflavor5693]

Please don’t make accusations if you do not know anything. Korea has one of the most strictest Covid regulation so if they were tested positive they would have not played.

[@bomnitoperro9422]

I love seing fudhe being mediocre. Just to see all the ls fans that went with the copium of fudge being a genius, crumble.

[@BotlaneCEO]

Probably Crucile going top with Summit being bought out since LS was out of the team. They can even go Crucile, Malice, Fudge, Berserker, Winsome.

[@BotlaneCEO]

So Blaber buy out is possible as well and C9 will be showering with money while having a roster who also aligns with the coach in terms of how they think about the game.

[@depewfootball59]

Malice has said many times he has no interest in playing lcs

[@BotlaneCEO]

@@depewfootball59 There will always be an exception. He also said that he doesn't want to play competitive but look at him now. All I'm saying is Crucile being there will be an enough reason for him to try it out.

[@archaontheeverchosen539]

Mad lions should buy vetheo and a new top laner

[@ericyin2810]

mad lions is poor as fuck, no chance vetheo goes to mad unless they somehow are able to dish out millions

[@archaontheeverchosen539]

@@ericyin2810 I don't see any of the top teams changing mid so mad looks like the only option where they'll be a top team with vetheo and I doubt vetheo will be that expensive with no buyout he can always go to na though

[@Ignazyoh]

@@ericyin2810 Remember, this is EU, where teams accomplishments actually mean something to players.

[@GenericNameeee]

What toplaner could take Armuts place though, there are very few decent toplaners in EU sadly.

[@archaontheeverchosen539]

@@GenericNameeee there's definitely players in erls that can play in lec armut had a horrible season summit is similar lol very limited champion pool being punished

[@spartanvinc]

Chovy vs goat mid laners. Faker is Humanoid. Chovy is Nemesis.

[@CxerRy96]

3:35:30 I commented on that thread and ATM I'm -5 downvotes for saying basically that Bengi just didn't live up to any expectations outside of being Fakers bodyguard

[@KleinpeterHank]

Welcome to r/leagueoflegends. If you played on SKT with prime Faker especially you’re automatically top 3 all time in your role apparently.

[@CxerRy96]

@@KleinpeterHank yep and I'm also like -10 downvotes for saying that Uzi is all time better than Deft because Deft won more things in total when every single pro ADC on the planet says that Uzi was by far the hardest opponent they've ever faced

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

I don't think Bengi is the best jungler but he's def a liken to Pippen. Someone who won't be top 10 in all time list or even the best SF of all time but still high rank up. Guy has longevity of being one of the best junglers. Plus I've seen a lot worse. I've seen someone consider Jankos the best jungler of all time LMAO. Or Caps being a top 3 mid of all time.

[@CxerRy96]

@@Gurpreet-sv5zg Jankos is certainly the GOAT of non-KR jngs

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

@@CxerRy96 As if that means anything lol.

[@LiveErrors]

Things pro players do on Ahri that bother me Everfrost is her Secondary Mythic, Ludens is her main Mythic You have to have MPen, and you have to have Dmg boosts in your core build (first 3 items) you only have space for 1 defensive option (including boots) Do not go everfrost into defence items, you do not go Merc treads for Lane unless you are being camped Horizonal focus is stylistically good but mathematically bad, Shadowflame and Lich bane are both stylistically and mathematically good There are two kinds of mages, passive and initiative powered mages. Passive powered mages are the likes of Victor and Oriana who just need gold to attain power. Initiative powered Mages have good parts of their power budget put into active tools but will be outdone by passive mages. Ahri is in the 2nd category You can cancel Lee sin Q with Charm Leblanc counters Ahri, not the other way around Charm flash is an elementary skill

[@LiveErrors]

And most important of all Ahri is a Pick Mage. Not controll, not support, can be a kite mage IF you build for it and you team suits it.

[@BlackZanderPL]

I guess Thorin will never learn to watch the games properly before speaking about the teams. But, oh well. We'll see on Sunday.

[@erratu]

If there will be every a national.champions Poland will win world's

[@Creamouz]

Why EG would choose to set themselves under such immense pressure by picking Renekton Nidalee in a meta where both champions aren't very strong is beyond me. They pretty much stomped TL n game4 and choose to pick a comp that is not only bad but also hard to properly execute and get a big enough lead on to actually win the game

[@xxximyxxximerton1671]

we rly gunna pretend doublelift isnt better at analyzing the game than a guy that is a cs commentator i love thorin but god damn

[@mathewmallie4580]

Thorins not analyzing anything, he’s laughing that dl thinks he’s a better analyst than an accomplished coach

[@lanceelopezz223]

L

[@unable48]

G2 won “pro analysis “ btw

[@joey9424]

So what Mac is saying is if everyone does the fundamentals well they can go undefeated? LOL

[@arnedierick68]

Mac shouldn't be talking about ex players he coached, the bias towards Humanoid the whole time is unreal

[@Zwijger]

I mean, MAD (with Mac) won 2 titles with Humanoid. Humanoid is gone and suddenly they are just okay. From his perspective there might be a crazy amount of things Humanoid added to that roster. Obviously there's bias, humans are biased, hell conscious things are biased, it happens.

[@lanceelopezz223]

Make him, then.

[@Pigraider268]

Having excoach of the player in finals is pretty bad. Mac's bias towards Humanoid is unreal

[@archaontheeverchosen539]

I don't get what's so good about this cait lux bullshit if XL didn't take lux they'd actually win that game if they took zyra or taric or even morgana

[@Dardobul]

Lux has higher base stats than zyra, harder cc for a one point wonder, and upfront burst rather than DPS. Lux is ranged, taric isn't. Taric also can't hang like a "traditional" melee support and hard engage for you. Lux has vision tricks and Morgana doesn't, and supp morg at pro will never have enough gold for zhonyas till 25mins Long story short, the other 3 alternatives have fatal flaws in pro when paired with cait

[@archaontheeverchosen539]

@@Dardobul taric saves u when the olaf nautilus all in u lux gets absolutely fucked in the ass by olaf zyra can always turn the fight she has really high dmg output and can block every naut hook engage with a plant zyra is generally good into naut and the likes Taric is good vs teams that wanna run u down and morgana is just a better lux considering only way u lose the game is when ur carry gets fucked by their engage cc u can't convince me that a lux cait lane is stronger than zyra cait vs the comp vit had

[@whatchachattin]

Watch Keria or Kellin play Lux

[@Semiazas_TV]

TL is so lucky that C9 was a total dumpster fire because their play was atrosious. That TL and EG series might as well been a fucking coin toss, maybe that would have been more exicting instead of whatever the fuck they wanted to call that match.

[@CxerRy96]

Realistically if C9 had an actual no-bullshit KR/CH style head coach with actual tenure he would immediately bench Summit and look to replace Fudge (at least for mid)... My thoughts are similar to monte, Fudge back on top, import a new mid (maybe you can go for a hardstuck but well performing KR like BDD or Lava, otherwise look at EU options like Nisqy), Berserker and Winsome to academy for the time being, bring Zven back up and brainstorm the support option (I'm thinking giving Zeyzal and Prismal of CLG.A a tryout + offering a serious contract to Eyla) I just don't think Max Waldo has the balls to make the necessary moves

[@lukebaier1111]

Bdd would be good but I would much rather they take FATE over Lava

[@CxerRy96]

@@lukebaier1111 I thought about it too but I don't think his team is willing to make changes nor the players want to turbo leave (same as I'd expect from BDD who just went from possible best player at world's to no playoffs)

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

Doubt it. If someone was an actual Eastern coach then they would've replaced Fudge early on because he's not contributing much to mid. As well, Winsome would've been left go already since his laning is horrendous. The sad thing Isles is somehow worse so C9 has no hope for support players. Best option would be to boot Fudge. Grab Jensen. Grab Zeyzal. This team would improve so much and actually have a mid lane win lane for once. Way better team considering any solid import mid would be tied up this split.

[@CxerRy96]

@@Gurpreet-sv5zg there's no way C9 and Jensen find a mutual agreement after their initial departure

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

@@CxerRy96 Jensen has stated he is open to playing for C9. With TL/100T content on their mid lane and EG looking to focus on Jojo there really isn't an option for jensen unless he wants on a bottom tier team.

[@spyrosp8350]

betting ?? really?endorsing gambling? SHAME ON YOU

[@D1L1vidz]

what the fuck did G2 do to these guys? they talked about no support being able to match hylisang's champ pool except trymbi. targamas had the most unique champs played in the whole regular split. they talked about G2 not being able to play zeri. They played it last week. they talked about flakked not being a carry adc. literally had the best kda out of any player last weekend over 2 series. They also don't talk like BB has beaten wunder in lane multiple times this split. jankos and caps are still Jankos and caps. Even if they might not be head and shoulders better than everyone else anymore. It will be a tough game and fnatic are favourites but they talk like this game will be a blowout but depending on draft and who shows up, I think G2 can take this series and it's not even a small chance.

[@D1L1vidz]

also humanoid inted his heart out on tf and they are praising him for trying to make things work. like I understand what they are saying but it seems very biased. Like flakked played very well last weekend and they flame him for his 1ST SERIES on stage because he missplayed teamfights but humanoid ints mid 3 games in a row and they praise him for trying things.