The Smallest Valley Ever!

[@positivelyacademical1519]

The fact that we see an significant tower advantage turn into an upset victory pretty much proves that towers aren’t spoiling the tiny map series.

[@CommissarYarric9]

Well, the *way* Tatoh came back was by building more towers in response - in particular it all swung with Daut's failed vill rush against the tower in the left corner near his TC. Towers hard-counter all other units in Feudal on the tiny map, is the issue.

[@AntiGravityC9]

it's entertaining, but I don't know if it's more entertaining than archer macro

[@CommissarYarric9]

@@AntiGravityC9 I think its a classic 'both are good' - some games with towers, some games without for diversity! Certainly worth trying.

[@AntiGravityC9]

a potential issue is that on a small map it might be harder to recover from losing an archer war than a tower war - instead of you losing a tactical area for a while, the opponent can now go on a rampage everywhere outside your TC's range

[@birisuandrei1551]

Well at this point you could just play a normal map with towers only rule and it would be the same thing until everyone runs out of stone

[@keenanlarsen1639]

I don't mind the tower meta. I could be wrong but I feel like if you got rid of towers, it would end up just being a race to see who can drop a castle first.

[@graemegourley7616]

The only "adjustment" is like to see is maybe on these small maps reduce the range of the towers by a bit.

[@Aaron-mn2ro]

or place a limit of how many towers you can have at once

[@graemegourley7616]

@@Aaron-mn2ro I think that's fine because you still need to gather the resources to build them. But If they halved the range then they would be more or less as effective as in a full sized game.

[@LlywellynOBrien]

I'd only go for this if you tweaked all ranges down a bit. If towers are reduced but other ranged aren't it'd be a problem. Personally I just think keep it as is though.

[@gildeddrake1479]

third tower for daut was a mistake imo. I'd like to see more pallisade spam when a player gets early map control.

[@gruenerKoenig]

I like the games like they are. Really fun to watch, normal rules and the quirks of the players!

[@modestMousse]

I have been absent from the RTS casting scene for a while, but it's so great to see the tower rush alive in 2024. I do think another game of this map without towers would be cool, though! Like you said though, it's good to see the map played vanilla before getting more customized. Thanks for posting!

[@JammyBriton]

On the topic of towers in these small map games, perhaps a max tower limit? Such as 3 towers at any one time. Want another? Delete a previous one before building. Might add in some extra strategy

[@EmilWall]

If Tatoh had garrisoned 8 sheep, he would have gained 28 food per minute. I think with 6 sheep you instead gain 21 food per minute and 4 sheep generates 14 food per minute. Tatoh garrisoned 4 sheep after 20 seconds and 6 sheep after 3 minutes. Game ended after 16 minutes. So that’s roughly 14*3 + 21*13 = 315 food

[@kOaMaster2]

Nice, what a match! Didn't expect that comeback, the start and strategy from DauT seemed so on point. However I do think that keep producing vills in early Feudal helped Tatoh a lot gaining a lead and therefore I do think this was definitely also due to the civ that he got back into the game. 6 sheep will produce 20.8 food/min, so in the total game length of 27min, Tatoh got more than 550 food or 10% of his total collected resources from those 6 sheep (and he could've easily gotten almost 650 food if his scouting was a bit better, no clue how he missed those two!?)

[@roguebanshee]

He only put 4 sheep in the mill and ate the last two. He still got roughly 437 food total from the garrisoned sheep without using villager time, which is more than the sheep would have provided if he ate them. He ate the last two for 200 food, using villagers. So ~637 food total from the 6 sheep he found.

[@Truehavocify]

I love this series because it reminds me of the how the game used to be played with the old tower rushing.

[@colbunkmust]

Nothing wrong with the tower meta, we normally don't see this type of aggression on larger maps. I don't think it's a problem, there are plenty of other T90 vids with other AOE gameplay. If you add in other stipulations to the game it might change the 'Smallest' meta, but I don't think it would make the game better or more exciting.

[@simonflint5303]

I love tower spam and vil wars because it's so different from standard games, and that's why we love small maps for the variety. So don't change this.

[@joshmcdonald7472]

Just waiting for the smallest forest nothing. And it will be glorious

[@ColbyKingPerson]

I think a fun way to add variety to this small maps series would be to do some of the maps in a best of 3 set. Players could try out a couple different civs/strats, or luck might just go differently and it could be interesting.

[@TheLogicalKey]

Having the sheep in the mill gave tatoh a food income which was also passive and so more vills were free to do other things.

[@gsresener]

Came for this comment

[@michaelstrohmaier5456]

5:00 "double the towers, double the fun"

[@samuelstevens5845]

That was an impressive comeback from Tatoh! Such an exciting game! The small maps have been great so far for the quick pace, elo hasn't had too much impact on the content

[@user-ue5pt4uh9p]

Amazing gameplay! I love the tower dynamics. It's different than usual maps for sure, but that's fun!

[@misteral9045]

Instead of removing towers, make it like scrappy Aoe1 where towers can't be garrisoned but don't have a minimum range. That way either full on Trushing or just building one or two is viable, but not an OP mini castle in feudal (when garrisoned). You could even tweak it so they cost 150 stone and builders stack really fast like in Aoe1.

[@jamesporter2788]

Yeah increasing the cost could be a good option

[@BaronVonScrub]

Honestly, the solution isn't to remove towers, it's to artificially nerf their range by 2-3. Then they still give zone control, but not "half the map".

[@victorfinberg8595]

4:40 You got to hidey-hide You got to jump and run You got to hidey-hidey-hide

[@jakoboka]

Tetris mining camp, love it. I would make a mining camp leaving 3 spits for miners and leave the surrounded gold spot of 1 tile for the tower. Can't be rushes down easily while still able to have safe villagers

[@normanatalus13]

Interesting idea: Mini Map Melee. No use of ranged units or buildings that shoot arrows, in the case of TC no garrisoning them.

[@legion2590]

13:30 I agree T90... it's not the size of the tower but how you use it ;)

[@unhin2971]

need a feudal tech that unlocks tower : 20 stone and 180 wood, taking 75 seconds to research

[@iwersonsch5131]

Tweak idea: You have to research Guard Tower before placing towers

[@demosthenes614]

I'm surprised Daut didn't stone wall the middle when he had the initiative. If he does that, I think he wins this game easily.

[@johnfstockland]

I think if Daut made the third tower more in range of his initial towers this might have been an early gg

[@andrevc85]

Yeah, maybe one tile would have made all the difference. Tatoh forward tower was a killer too. bold

[@victorfinberg8595]

9:35 yes, but daut has ANOTHER tower in the corner ... behind walls, this time

[@jessstrap2088]

I think the garrisoned mill is more important than it seems. Having that food trickle meant Tatoh didn't need to spend vil time to get more vils and didn't need to expose his vils for the hunt or berries.

[@thefunky_brassmonkey]

No towers and no forward castles. I love the Smallest Maps series and watching the top players in the game playing this is awesome sauce!

[@nisenazo]

Towers are a part of the game and idk what people's problem with them are. This match was far more interesting as a result of the area control gained from towers.

[@thomasbrocklebank6673]

I love the way these games swing. Gr8 cast. Fair play to the players. Here have u done "small Z Wall?" Might limit the towers, kind of... haha

[@Evan-rj9xy]

I still feel like small maps would be better without stone. That way you'd have your starting stone for a couple towers but you'd need to use a market to get more towers or a castle. I don't think towers should be removed, but they are seriously overpowered when everything is this close together

[@HeFromNorwayz]

Love the smallest map series! KEEP GOING

[@icaroferracini]

Don't change, just let them play.

[@Storm-1.]

It was painful to see that red eat a few sheeps put some in the mil and not even found all. AAAHHHH!!!!

[@951258tike22]

Towers are a necessary evil I think, plus this game showed that getting to the tower rush first doesn't necessarily end the game right then and there.

[@Mathayas_]

A compromise for removing towers might just be a limit. two should work for keeping things interesting I think.

[@thomasfplm]

That, or reduce the base range of the towers by 2.

[@MardukGodSlayer]

Nothing wrong with the towers, imo. Just a different meta for a different kind of map. If the rules around them were changed then another dominant meta would come through and that'd be all we see instead. Also, omg, why did Daut let that tower go down at 13:10?

[@birisuandrei1551]

Maybe you could make a mod that limits Tower, Tc and Castle range to a much shorter one making them bad for map control, like give them 3 range for example, you'd be able to outrange it with pretty much any unit in the game, but it can still prevent the enemy from moving through a certain choke point for example.

[@sambaldwin6658]

Small maps FTW

[@tomroethke]

I love this little map!!

[@michaelstrohmaier5456]

13:00 Small sheep nothing nomad but ban all civs with a TC advantage.

[@Crabmaster]

What if the small maps had lower amounts of stone, maybe only 1-2 spots near each TC? It might be an interesting variant to see a case where towers aren't outright banned, but the planning around how many you can build without using the market to buy stone could add some interesting variety.

[@Gotmilk0112]

Yeah I definitely want to see a no tower smallest maps. Almost every single game just devolves into tower spam.

[@Irydion]

No tower becomes first castle wins. It would be even more boring.

[@Gotmilk0112]

@@Irydionplenty of ways to stop a castle from going up. Much harder to stop feudal tower spam

[@LlywellynOBrien]

To be honest I feel like this is a bit like complaining that every game of chess looks similar. Yes, it's tower or bust but that just sets up the field. Then the winner comes from who uses theirs better, picks their placement better etc.

[@epicseadragon1692]

Yeah removing towers would probably lead to a douche fest... That being said, very fun video as always! Love the series!

[@LlywellynOBrien]

When I sat down to start this, I though I must have missed one because the score was now 2/2. Nope, I just forgot the *four minute* one the preceded this.

[@BrownFoxWarrior]

The tower meta can be a bit dull, but I agree with your points. I'd rather see the maps played as close to the original version (barring the size) as possible before modding things.

[@victorfinberg8595]

4:15 say TCHEEEZZE

[@dominikalterman7440]

Man I need to play this game again, it's been a while

[@chavzone]

What about Cumans into early Rams? Could be a good anti-tower, anti-wall strat

[@thaconaway]

$10 bonus to any player that doesnt drop a tower

[@myne00]

Halve the stone mining rate, and double the market rate maybe? Doesn't stop towers/castles but makes it harder.

[@kartoshka1979]

Is there a way to play with reduced tower range so that they were less impactful?

[@dimitrikemitsky]

Largest maps when? Ludacris size, 500 pop, 8 player land nomad baby, lesgo.

[@annaairahala9462]

I really think they should stone wall more, stone walls would be quite powerful

[@regth8208]

No stone on these maps is a good answer. Force market usage for more stone past the 200 at start.

[@bungalo50]

T90 try this: Maximum one tower per player at all time, if players desire, they can delete and rebuild their tower somewhere else for strategic position but still only 1 tower at all times for each player

[@jessstrap2088]

How about increasing the construction cost for each tower built. First 1.0x the base cost, second 1.25x, 1.75x, 2.5x... Eventually the towers won't be worth it and each tower destroyed will hurt just that much more. Initially it could be implemented by slinging stone to a neutral extra player, with an admin checking it. If it turns out to be worth it you can look at building it into maps or scenario or a mod.

[@manuelpiston]

I want to start playing this game but is scary.

[@TheAmericanPrometheus]

Biggest map ever series?

[@ns-islandsroblox]

That'll be awesome if you want to watch a 3 hour game

[@arcan762]

boring

[@zlamanit]

But with only 25 population

[@LilGamingYes]

@@zlamanit And make it gold nothing, to make sure they don't rush each other.

[@Royorg-qf5jq]

Nice map to play with perian and TC rush

[@4nthr4x]

Thanks T90, great series

[@andrzejgwacik5443]

4 minutes of intense gameplay in one of the rounds before was a surprise, but a pleasant one

[@somebody-anonymous]

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one

[@darthjarjarthewise8051]

We need another 8 players in a small map

[@stevencromb5589]

Smallest Forest Nothing would likely not lead to a tower game

[@Bozothcow]

Ah, wonderful.

[@Ewerboweski]

Start everyone in imp with infinite resources and see what they build.

[@FreeformThomas]

Where can we get these small maps to play?

[@feral.explorer]

Just wanna say.. Only channel i watch ads on. Everything else i watch the video preview in my feed

[@tc9694]

My suggestion, Mini Mega Random

[@Riotlight]

Low elo on these maps could be really funny.

[@viper_fan]

This was high level content. 💪🏽

[@wantin42]

x x m m g x m m g x x g g g g g So this is the mining camp I would place on that gold. I think even on another map, where the gold was safer. x stands for empty terrain m stands for mining camp g stands for gold the whole thing is rotated an 8th of a circle to the left yeah, it is not relevant for this game, but I think building placement can be interesting and T90 was super off with his tetris fit comment, unless you want 2 or max 4 vills on it ever, and if this was arabia having to delete the mining camp to save the trapped vills from some archers still sounds bad to me.

[@mysteriousshadow395]

do empire wars on those small maps

[@Grasbuch]

I have no idea of coding and programming but maybe there is a possibility to put like a max tower mod which lets the players only build 5 or so towers?

[@jessstrap2088]

In the short term just about any rule can be implemented by giving it to the players and letting an admin check for compliance.

[@Sooraj3112]

Make these maps with only one line of sight for all units mannnnn!!!!!!!!

[@1un4cy]

I'd prefer either no towers or a mod that reduces all ranged units range by half.

[@thomasfplm]

Imagine small maps YouPudding

[@alz2865]

Why does red have a camel scout?

[@BleachWizz]

can you mod to have towers in castle age?

[@rrhymer3536]

I want to see a donjon rush lol

[@KutaphoneX]

Hey mate has anyone asked you before if you know Falcon Paladin? :>

[@CM-iz5ny]

You could ban towers and 1 castle only

[@malcolmmackenzie9202]

What about 3 players on the map? Would that work?

[@EmilWall]

Probably not, it’s already really hard for the person modding the map generation to ensure fair resources for both players

[@gergosoos4652]

West side story there

[@nmeinema13]

Can you try this mode with teams?

[@rezlets5017]

These are too short too fall asleep to before youtube ads kill me autoplay

[@knoxville1782]

Limit each player to 1 tower at a time

[@37Kilroy]

1:18 Is this code for Elon and Twitter?

[@WigglyWings]

Pls enable tower range mod so we can see how far towers range.

[@Greenpie101]

daily small maps, pleeeeeeeease t90daddy?

[@asabejk]

How can i have this map?

[@iaimen865]

You could do a limit on how many towers a player can place in a game so it still a play thats available but it never become a tower spaming fest

[@thomasfplm]

Or reduce their base range

[@felipenachmanowicz9393]

Instead of thinking about tower bans, why not limit the stone on the map?

[@andrewg3196]

Daut threw

[@christianhansen7596]

tiny forest nothing?

[@KilledWithStyle]

Post #22 asking for a smallest map youpudding/white phosphoru duel

[@allaboutgames2796]

Towers should be half hp