WHY Are Some People Leaving the Wargaming Hobby?

Why do many people leave the wargaming hobby? And how can it be fixed? I have some ideas.
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[@Wanstreisser]

I didn't leave wargaming, i just left GW and Warhammer.

[@herrnase4340]

Sane. And same.

[@jessicalacasse6205]

my crack dealer treat me better than gw and the price make more sense lmfao ...

[@jon-paulfilkins7820]

Been largely GW free since the start of the 90's, for one Squats in 40k, for another, the way GW retail treated their GW Wholesale customers... Then Near every other GW shop opining was an Indie Retailer about to loose their client base until they shut, then the discounts and bonus items with purchases in the GW Shop stopped.

[@Subject_Keter]

I literally only want GW models for my dnd games 😂 If anything, the way most wargamers act made me leave them before i could get in. "I will have you know sir, i can only take a shower D6+1 days because it said it in a codex released in the 90's" 😂

[@jon-paulfilkins7820]

@@Subject_Keter D&D, another industry standard I can't stand... I am no fan of level based TTRPG systems. I am a fan of skill based TTRPG systems.

[@rayperium]

You omitted at least one reason for leaving the hobby: A lacking infrastructure, meaning playing space requirements and playing partners. It may be me, but so far I have failed miserably at luring my friends into my hobby. Living in a sparsely populated area does not help either finding regular playing opportunities. - Neat video editing BTW.

[@LikeGodzzila]

Solo board games have been on a rise and it's an increasingly more lucrative and sought after subgenre. Miniature Wargames really should heavily consider developing solo modes for their games.

[@tommloye4626]

All I ever play is solo. For me it’s honestly so much more enjoyable. I don’t have to worry about finding not just opponents, but opponents I like. No worries about keeping up with whatever edition is out now. Travel, proxy, and just a ton of other things are no longer a concern. It’s very nice.

[@marks6928]

@LikeGodzzila many wargames do now, thankfully, include solo modes.

[@AleksanderNevskij47]

I have the same problem. It's sad, but I have not surrendered yet.

[@smash_hamster]

Warhammer Quest (1995 edition) is a great game played either solo or with friends. Obviously long unsupported by GW but really that's a good thing because it's now supported by the community, and that's a much better experience.

[@JimmyCrawford]

The major issue with GW is that the churn cycle is so fast that literally nothing gets stress tested until it's released. Less a games company, more a dividend machine. It's like the 90s all over again.

[@Andrew-ns3su]

The 3 year edition cycle & paywalling alot of content really stinks alot.

[@herrnase4340]

Happens. "I do it for fun" -> "I do it for the money" -> "I do it because money is fun" -> "I don't care for the product as long as there's money" I'm not sure we need these people but it's not like we could really do anything about it

[@markgrehan3726]

They do need to work on the balance but I remember when things took ages to come out and people complaining about the cycle then. I do think G.W. stretches itself too thin which was one of the reasons I was worried when they brought the Old World back.

[@ToastedWaffles_]

buy the boxset of battletech armored combat that's all you need to start out. Battletech is in such a great place right now.

[@TorianTammas]

GW does what GW always did sell you more stuff. You need it as their other stuff that they sold you before: A never worked B no longer works C is no longer supported and no longer tournament legal

[@rDunfee]

Back in the early 2000s my brother, age 14, and I, age 15, were bullied pretty hard at the local gaming store when we went in to play each weekend. We both left the hobby, selling all of our warhammer minis. We had almost all of the 3rd edition Tau models, all of the Dark Eldar minis that were available at that time and a ton of tyranids and space marines. This was well before we had a GW store in our city. We sold almost everything and just went back to video games. It wasn't until the release of D&D 4e that I got back into any form of tabletop gaming. 2 years later I was back playing wargames, but I never touched a GW product again. Years later I've written and released a fantasy skirmish game, run a tabletop crafting discord with over a thousand members, and am working on my second book. I've spent thousands on the hobby outside of GW, supporting SO many great small companies

[@Sullenbeard]

Sorry that happened to you. That is why I don’t play at FLGS. Most are just LGS. They forgot the friendly part.

[@ScooterinAB]

Shitty neckbeards are the worst. I'm lucky to have started 40k at a time when people were still cool (if still horrible nerds with no social skills). At 13 and 14, I never felt like I was being bullied out anywhere, but I know it's a thing.

[@vyst8132]

Tabletop crafting discord? That sounds really cool, what’s the name? I’d like to scope it out if that’s alright!

[@philhelm1318]

Was the bullying from other players? What was their deal?

[@Kiddarri1729]

I've been gaming TTRPGs mostly since the early 80's (year I've been around just had a 5 0 birthday this week 😆) buts always hurt my heart and soul to hear about other gamers who've bullied other gamers, they forgot that they where at a time the ones on the outs or simply just are gatekeeping jerks enjoy making things miserable for others. Congrats on your successes, glad you came back

[@TuesdayNightXWing]

I'm 100% in the "Painting things I WANT to paint because I love how the look of them" phase of my painting journey, I have a stack of mini's from systems I don't and probably never will play and I'm loving it.

[@XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD4]

The amazing part is, you dont even need to do that. You can just use OPR army forge to create your force with whatever models you like, and IF some day you want to play of find abuddy that wants to play or whatever, you still have the chance to do that without EVER feeling the need to actually do it :)

[@criticalcommenter]

​@@XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD4OPR 😂

[@sargeantgamerful]

​@@XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD4opr bruhhhh

[@philhelm1318]

I've moved on from larger wargames because if I like a model I'd prefer to paint one, or a few, rather than 50 of them.

[@elguntor]

I left GW. For the price of 2 GW boxes, I've bought a printer, all the necessary accessories, resin, etc. and have printed hundreds and hundreds of minis. My D&D table has minis. I have several armies that I can play. I have war bands, kill teams, etc. with AWESOME sculpts.

[@PureTranceSoul]

what model printer? :P

[@aosabi]

@@PureTranceSoul pretty much any resin printer will give you great results. I own multiple elegoo machines. as for what model, depends on your needs. do you live somewhere cold and need a built in heater? do you want to print 30 minis at once, or are you fine with 8 at a time. I have one machine that can print at 0.02mm layer height and 27nm XY resolution, and honestly, without a microscope, its hard to tell it apart from my much older machine that prints at 0.05mm height and something like 50nm XY resolution. so, just get what you can afford. either way, it will save you a ton compared to GW plastic...

[@joeyj6808]

That is the future. I wish you well! And good gaming!

[@argy8141]

"Comparison is the thief of joy" too true. I've got to a point in my life that my eyes are deteriorating and I'm comfortable with being me. So "Good enough for me" and "Good enough at arms length" are my mantras. The result going from painting 20-30 minis a year to painting over 30-40 minis a month (and the more I do, the better the results and the easier it gets). I have bought a huge pile of opportunity over the years and now it is slowly decreasing. Just now need to do some playing too!! And also moving from mass rank and flank to skirmish games has helped enormously with motivation and finding players.

[@percyblok6014]

Are you a gamer or a painter? Most of these miniature painting channels are just painters doing their craft. They're not playing much of anything.

[@argy8141]

@@percyblok6014 Gamer who hates playing with grey plastic. You're right, but gamers don't indulge in showing their "poorly" painted minis on KZbin so you're left with painters showing their skills. I've found my peace, limited pallete, highlights with a drybrush and then focussing on faces and bases. And with F&B a lot of the "errors" go unnoticed. 😂Enjoy your weekend.

[@kelvingriffiths6017]

Same happened to me. But it led to a major improvement in finished units that are still real good. I lost the "perfectionist" mindset about 2 years ago and I'm happier now.

[@jessicalacasse6205]

my crack dealer treat me better than gw and the price make more sense lmfao ...

[@Subject_Keter]

​@@argy8141 to misquote a book i just read "Oh, please! You're worriee about what the world is thinking? Worry about this World!" Reminds me of the dnd weirdos who MUST let big company gf into their lives or they die. 😂

[@sphoney]

The funny thing about the constant churn of 40k is my memory of Warhammer in the 90s being much more like the smaller games these days. Very supportive of house rules, encouraging of them. GW was small enough it felt like they were just a more invested group of players, similar to maybe a youtube channel these days, and they were coming up with good or interesting solutions to stuff like this. Ways of modelling, ways of painting, ways of playing. Now they're a vast corpo edifice with copyright lawyers. I like your videos, man. They're a bit of an antidote to that.

[@tabletopminions]

I appreciate it. I do aspire to make wargaming fun - maybe a little like it was back in the day before the corpos. Thanks for watching!

[@stitch77100]

Absolutely agree. I have read my old White dwarfs over and over for inspiration, and the nice battle reports. Nowadays I don't even want to read them anymore. 40K and Battle were more easy to get into and niche in the 90s, even early 2000s. Now I only feel the same vibe and interest for smaller games (or 9th age 1st and 2nd editions, and Warhammer army project, because I still enjoy the Warhammer fantasy lore)

[@oskar6661]

Yep, up until the late 90's (GW went corporate between 1999-2001ish if I recall?) the company was literally a bunch of metalhead/rock nerds who loved D&D and everything geeky. You can see it in the old White Dwarfs of the time. GW wasn't some huge money-making machine (yet), and while successful...it was all about homemade stuff, house rules, etc. Even mentioning in battle reports "We decided not to use wizards for this game...", etc. It was very much "by nerds for nerds". You'll also notice that a lot of ex-GW guys went on to make a bunch of other excellent games long after GW went mega-corporate. There is no similarity at all between 1995 GW and 2025 GW. It is a vast corporate juggernaut, nothing of its former self.

[@markwatson8714]

@@oskar6661 It went corporate a bit before that, but for me the turning point was always 3rd edition 40K (1998) and 6th edition fantasy (2000), or in other words the point they kicked Rick Priestly upstairs and started focusing more on the competitive side of things and getting rid of the more interesting, cool or amusing parts of the game.

[@mackdyegames3035]

Gamesworkshop isn't a game studio. They are a collectibles miniature studio. They used to be a game studio. Then they discovered that rich collectors exist and never looked back.

[@dirtywetdogboatsandsailing6805]

I left wargaming age around 16 because I quite simply grew out of it, instead I discovered motorcycles, rock climbing and women.....not necessasarily in that order ?. Now, some 50+ years later i'm on the verge of taking up miniature modelling once more and I won't be going anywhere near a GW store, Historical I know but the first thing I ever bought was an Airfix kit of an 8 wheeled armored car and it cost me all of 2 shillings (old money £) and the shop owner even threw in a tube of glue for free.

[@martind5565]

one page my rules bro :) its free and miniature agnostic

[@jacksongagne8639]

I started the hobby in October (so still very new). My friend was trying to get me into Warhammer for some time, and one day he was visiting and we went to the local game store to look around. I picked up a Combat Patrol box, which seemed like a good entry point, and then was shocked at the $160 price. And of course, I didn't have any paints, tools, or brushes. Too much for a hobby I might not have even liked. My entry into wargaming ended up being a $35 box of 40 Soviet infantry for Bolt Action, which the same friend also played. I really enjoyed putting them together, and painting, while very intimidating, ended up being not too bad. Now I'm playing Bolt Action and Muskets and Tomahawks and have about 130 figures total. It's been very fun so far!

[@InksArts]

Lots of good points made here. For me personally, when I was in my late teens I went to a tournament and had a bad experience. I found out afterwards that not only did two of the three people I had a battle with cheated, but they were friends with the owner running the tournament. The whole thing sort of just rubbed me the wrong way, I'm a big play by the rules and play fair guy, and these were most definitely not the sort of rules you may just mess up accidentally. That steered me away from tournament, and the hobby in general for quite a few years. I'm glad I got back into with that said, I truly like about 90% that the hobby has to offer and nearly all of my friends like something about the 40k setting.

[@kelvingriffiths6017]

Tried the tournament scene at GW Nottingham. Never again. I stick to house games with family and friends. Made the hobby much more pleasurable for me in many ways.

[@That_Rat_Bastrd]

Dropping the entire hobby because of a couple of bad apples in a single tournament scene is WILD 😂

[@anvil242]

I'm running Star Trek: Tactical Starship Combat Simulator at a convention this weekend. This game was published in 1986. Works just fine. The original mini's are hard to find, of course, but 3d printing solves that problem.

[@bruced648]

this has been my go-to space combat game system since it was introduced. I use the same game mechanics for any space combat, regardless of the game. simply use the mini and change the ship name - done.

[@elsantodelsol]

Good luck, hope you have fun

[@AaronWilbers]

Loved that game back in the day. Where are you finding good miniatures for it to print?

[@tinywarfare9109]

I love this game. And there's a goldmine of FASA ships to print too so I've got some great minis.

[@n3dstark]

Very good points made in this video. Two areas in particular I'd like to comment on: 1. Other rulesets. My friends and I sampled OPR Grimdark Future recently and have played more games in the past two months than games of 40k in the past year. Everything about it, free rules, free army builder app, models agnostic, alternating activations, quicker playtime. It's inspired a renaissance in our gaming and informed my own hobbying as I started to paint up Oldhammer figures that 40k rules had made redundant. We're loving life in the Grimdark Future. 2. Such an important point about agreeing with your gaming group on what way to play. A bunch of us are now in our second Mordheim campaign. It's an old ruleset but before we start a campaign we nominate and vote on House Rules, such as limiting slings, introduction -1 to hit for off-hand weapons, armour values, etc and we happily explore the ruined city to our hearts' content.

[@RMCbreezy]

The free rules point is just exhausting. Almost all 40k players DON'T use the codex/app. Wahapedia and newrecruit are king. Add onto that the apps that act as the card deck theres really nothing to complain about

[@n3dstark]

@@RMCbreezy Cool, sure the more people are aware of those resources, the better. I see a lot of people still with hardcopy codexes/ battletomes and rulebooks. Many people who have turned to those resources have paid for many codex/rules in the past and feel annoyed to have so much redundant texts. Anyway it's one positive point amongst several, so if you find that exhausting, I hope you find a way to sort out your energy levels 😜

[@WanderingCelts]

On your point of facebook marketplace, in my area, I have seen a surge of GW armies being sold. It's just around the same time as trench crusde has been released. Free rules, small model counts, very cool models, and excellent creative mins behind it. To be honest, GW fomo/ price ramping is now exhausting. Big fan of Frostgrave and Stargrave. The models make me smile.

[@wmcduff]

Took a break due to a depression wave. This, too, has passed and getting some work done again.

[@Mercenary0712]

I got into it more due to depression wave lol

[@zanzazaar]

When depression hit me I was buying comics. Few years of buying those thinking "some day I will feel better, then I will have something to read". It never happened, still in boxes.

[@kelvingriffiths6017]

Been there friend. The hobby is my outlet but been where you were too.

[@kitsune303]

I found painting lifts my darkness but playing makes it worse.

[@jonathancooper4914]

I hope you’re doing ok.

[@krzysmysz8042]

So here is me, freshly brewed dad. I went into 40k bought starter set a year ago. Just to realise that I will not keep up with constant release of new rules, every mini release. Painting takes me ages. Deep down my heart I am imperial guard so I know now i can't invest that much money and time to paint, just to play something that changed 50 times already. Currently I am looking for different game, Bolt Action looks great. Their rules stay the same for years even the lore doesn't change that much.

[@lloydeaker3757]

Bolt Action lore has interested me 60 years. But it is called history!

[@wildphotoznz]

Lore isn't going to change much as it is history.. plus you can't make a Sherman or t34 better than a tiger just because you want more sales.

[@RMCbreezy]

Complaining about the rule changes is only half valid. There are plenty of online resources to get your rules and the card decks. You just have to put forth effort

[@lloydeaker3757]

@@RMCbreezy No, one does not have to put forth effort. One can just not play. Just playing along is just allowing the manufacturer to make more money. Now if the rules actually improved the game it would be different. But after all of the changes they have not gotten the game any more perfect.

[@RMCbreezy]

@lloydeaker3757 explain how pirating all the rules online is being a part of the system? Your logic is not logic

[@marty67890]

I have played 5PFH, Space Wierdos and Rogue Stars with a single box of North Star plastics that cost me £19.00. It is a shame that many will fall out of the hobby before realising that there is a world beyond Games Workshop

[@marks6928]

This is the way. Fun kits to make, make what you want with them for multiple games. When played like that, Wargaming can be very cost effective.

[@Subject_Keter]

This is the same group that needed trench crusade to greenlit them to make interesting models. They need big company gf to make decisions for them. 😂

[@jeffmuncy6832]

I’ve felt burned by games mile Warmachine and Song of Ice and Fire. Spent a ton on minis and felt like every rules change had me chasing a new mini because older ones were nerfed. Now i’m looking to use them in miniature agnostic games.

[@piotrjeske4599]

It is the video game model. Release new faction/hero/build , then release the counter to it. Then 6-12 months version you release the same faction/hero/build in a ++ version.

[@kyledodd6496]

Let me know what you find for a Warmachine replacement. I've got a huge army of Protectorate of Menoth I miss seeing on the table.

[@manyslayer5889]

@@kyledodd6496 A few of the factions have been made for One Page Rule Age of Fantasy (they can be found under the community army books under I believe Horde Machine or some such).

[@davegoodwin8385]

Did you look at Hobgoblin? That is what I will be doing with my ASOIAF when I get them all painted... Quite simple rank & flank with rules to basically create your own unit types

[@2WARDEN2]

This, this, and this. I'm in the process of pulling out of Legion for the same reason. So far only Middle Earth and any non GW skirmish game let me buy more models because I want them and want to paint them, not rebuy figures of the same faction because there's frequent updates axing or completely nerfing stuff I already own.

[@jimbomacroth3400]

I think another major pitfall is not realising the time it takes to bring an army or project to the table. At the start when your enthusiasm is dailed up to 100 everything is great. Three weeks later and you've just finished a few basecoats with all the terrain left to do can be a major obstacle to overcome.

[@dbc330]

It might not be for you but if you want quick to table, check WoFun Games miniatures. No painting, minis on the table in a few hours after receiving them

[@markwatson8714]

It depends on the system though; a 1000 model Napoleonic army is a different beast to a 4 or 5 model Moonstone group. I also remember when Battletech starter kits were all cardboard standees (and I believe even the modern system is designed to work with them).

[@traestorm]

The rules thing was what pushed me out of the hobby for a long time. Being a completionist, I bought every rulebook, codex, and supplement for both WHFB and 40K for multiple editions. The cost to do that was unsustainable and, like most collectors, if I can't complete the collection, I won't even start. I did enjoy the painting aspect but my living arrangements changed and my limited space made the craft side of the hobby very difficult. During that time, other hobbies filled the void. I'm now able to start painting again after 20+ years but, I don't ever see myself returning to the gaming side.

[@ericsmith9212]

Great points as usual. I find the biggest hurdles to playing are time and constant rules changes. My group has been adapting OPR to our games and just trying to find time to play . We are all older than 50 and it's often hard to schedule games.

[@suitsandsteaks]

I'm so much happier now, moving past GW, finding games and mini ranges that scratch the itch and don't abuse my time and money. EDIT: Forgot my "pa-chow"!

[@tobakist]

Social media is a reason. It's so negative. Warhammer sucks. Games workshop sucks. Primaris sucks. Female custodes sucks. Moan, moan, moan, moan. Who wants to be a part of that?

[@Subject_Keter]

I think it is funny as hell. Considering some of them think Khrone a real gigachad... at losing 😂

[@chadnine3432]

I like the hobby aspect, but I don't have time to do large armies. I fell into 5 Parsecs, and supplemented my self painted stuff with card terrain and prepaints. I also stuck with X-Wing Miniatures due to it being prepainted. And I've done some repaints on XWM ships. 40K has just gotten so insane with edition churn and FOMO, rising prices and hyper detailed but fragile and difficult minis. I bought some 40K during Covid, but haven't bought anything since.

[@fredclasson7865]

I would always suggest people to start with skirmish games. The full army games right now have some issues with the business model and I just wouldn't advice someone to spend all that money on models and then see if they like it or not. Because even if they do - some sort of balance update or new edition will change the game. Like Necromunda, some 10 models each, some cool terrain and a book or two and you are ready to play. There's variety in that system, it makes it fun. You don't need every new released book etc.

[@ragefacile4832]

I personally didn't leave per say, but i stopped getting 40k books and models all together, the rules are now completely different of what I liked in 7th and they change too fast for how little i can play. plus they started phasing out models i really liked like the thunder canon. I'm curently building my legion of Emperor children on Heresy 2.0, like i always wanted, happy with plastic models more than the older, resin ones; once i'm done collecting what i want ( rapier batteries, Fulgrim, maybe primarchs) i'll be definitively done with GW Prices and models, and i'll just play with what i have.

[@Daeraug81]

I have introduced two of my grandson's to the hobby. I started them with the GW starting sets and the Army Painter Fanatics set. They are having a blast. They are showing interest in Trench Crusade now that they seen my new miniatures. Even my young granddaughter, who is six, is interested in having an army of her own. I started her off with some toys to represent her models. Also, picked up Necromolds, which uses playdoh for making miniatures.

[@tabletopminions]

Necromolds is perfect for kids, and a pretty neat concept. Thanks for watching!

[@RMCbreezy]

Trench crusade is a really refreshing concept

[@Count_Vampz]

Games workshop is a major lead in this. They have the most popular game and they just keep changing editions and what miniatures can be used in each edition and they are selling them for crazy amounts of money. New players take one look at the price point and think every wargame must be expensive to get into when you'd spend under half with pretty much any other wargame on the market.

[@herrnase4340]

Half ? Hooooly you have no idea lol With Battletech, 250 could set you up for life. With GW you need 500 to even start out and it will be out of date eventually

[@Count_Vampz]

I will admit, I've never actually played battletech. One day though. All the wargames I've played are well under half for everything you'd need to whatever army you choose to play compared to any games workshop game.

[@markgrehan3726]

@@Count_Vampz True but in some cases, it is because you need fewer models, and a lot of people still chase the new shiny so it still adds up. One of the issues with G.W. is you seem to need more and more models but you and your friends could just buy a thousand-point army and be done apart from a model you want every so often, Heck you don't even need to play the new edition though it does limit your gaming group.

[@veelckoo]

@@herrnase4340 For £130.00 you can get Ultimate Starter Set for 40k and that sets you up for life as well. Noone forces you to keep up with new editions or purchasing more models. Neiher for Battletech nor 40k.

[@AD_Gray]

I recently dropped out of a casual 40k event because my Aeldari rules got paywalled on the app, and the most fundamental rules for the army changed completely...just after I finished learning them. I get to play about 6 times a year if I'm lucky, and this was so demoralising that I just deleted all my Warhammer apps and canned my WH+ subscription. However, myself and my brother both feel this way, and now we have a monthly Stagrave campaign instead 🎉

[@Fnordathoth]

I like the painting minis and making terrain part of the hobby, and I like listening to lore videos. I love listening to you talk about the hobby and your experience with it. I'm eventually going to get myself a copy of Reign in Hell because I really love the premise and I've seen enough battle reports to know I could really get into it.

[@WillCalwell]

After 31 years of the hobby I gave up last year and I don't even know why. I've packed everything away.

[@surfingmoose]

I stopped about 6 years ago. Like you, it just happened. However it was not my first time. So this time I packed everything away because I have a feeling I'll get back into in the future.

[@WillCalwell]

@surfingmoose the funny thing is that I can't say why I stopped. I certainly don't think it's a bad hobby but it's just not for me anymore.

[@Farmers-Almanac]

i quit warhammer last year to make my own skirmish game. loving it

[@altarofthedeadgods_wargame]

do tell 👀

[@kenmartin5009]

Yea, you can’t just leave it like that 😅

[@bevanjansen2932]

I just got back in the hobby after decades and has joined a club where they play 40K with One Page Rules. And I'll be going to tournaments that host Bolt Action.

[@MidwestMalachi]

I'm not leaving the Hobby. In fact, I just wrote my own Wargame to help get kids into the hobby, Goobs, and put it on Wargame Vault.

[@herrnase4340]

Just maybe push them in a different direction than Warhammer

[@MidwestMalachi]

@herrnase4340 Maybe so. Hehe

[@spacebees86]

I spent the past year getting wicked into wargaming, with a lot of help from you! from videos on beginner tips to answering my questions on live stream, you've helped me get into a new hobby I otherwise would have gotten lost in. Instead of a wall of shame, I have an AoS army I love and several units for different skirmish games. Love the tshirt Edit: the constant changing rules is why I have not bought a single rule book for any of the games I'm getting into. D&D books were enough..

[@alphaleigpyne]

I did a solo game recently, it was a fun experiment. I'm still into painting models, I haven't assembled miniatures as much atm. One of the reason why I sort of stop playing WH40K is that a local store I used to buy the products closed down over year ago and I haven't heard from the store owner since then.

[@Le0byn]

I fell out of the hobby when games workshop discontinued Warhammer fantasy battles, and released age of Sigmar. Since December last year, I’ve gotten back into the hobby. With the help of your channel and others I enjoy it even more these days.

[@TheDragonsleeve]

Exactly the same here. I've just gotten back into historical wargaming, Napoleonics and ECW period. I leave Games Workshop well alone.

[@jaymehickey]

Great video. I'm old but still like to play, build and paint. My kids are out of the house and I have time to enjoy the hobby. Not interested in playing at a store. Mainly play solo wargames and games on Saturday's with my wife who shows interest because I enjoy it. Have not thought about leaving the hobby because I enjoy all parts of it but having the time to do it makes it easier. Thanks for all your tips and entertaining videos.

[@Kitty-wc9or]

I'm rubbish with the game rules, but love painting 😊

[@kelvingriffiths6017]

Peas in a pod. I paint just to watch them get wrecked lol

[@davidstuart7718]

I used to play 40k 8th edition very regularly with my brother, But i moved out and life got in the way and I haven't played any warhammer since. Im still an avid collector and painter in all that time but i haven't bothered to try and find someone to play it with. it's so drastically diffrent to 8th, now its an entirely new game that I don't have the time or energy to learn and track down all the errata and updates. I doubt there is a single rule book that GW sells that is 100% up to date and correct at this point. Then I went into my local modle shop and saw a battle tech starter set for 25 pounds. Everything you need to play a game, in one box cheaper than a 10 man squad from GW. I got it and had so much fun, painting minis in a diffrent scale, learning a simple but engaging rule set, and exploring a new univers that isnt depression encarnate. Now I'm thinking of grabbing their 65 pound starter set with more minis and the full rules set because the money to enjoyment ratio is so much more balanced 😂.

[@DiggingForFacts]

If you enjoyed it, the A Game of Armored Combat set is definitely worth the money. 8 mechs that are iconic in the setting (although the sculpts are a bit older). You also get a very useful cardstock table with all the modifiers listed and some extra play mats with more options for height and water.

[@LuisSanchez-fm4bu]

Very interesting subject. I'm more of a painter than a player. I decided to paint my first Combat Patrol to learn how to play. I'm very detail oriented when I paint my miniatures, so it takes me a lot of time to finish one miniature. I'm afraid that when I finish my patrol, the rules have changed, and I have to restart another patrol. Your comment about ignoring the changes and just playing the old rules gave me motivation to finish my miniatures. Thank you !!!

[@SomeDudeOnYouTube]

Nice video. A weird thing on "buying cheap second hand minis". Every time I see one of ebay rescues videos I go over to ebay Germany and look for stuff to snag. But there is nothing there at what I would consider "reasonable" price. It's like there is no "cheap second hand market" in Germany. Set of 6 old Space Marines with jump jets? Starting bid 12€. And *every* *flocking* mini that is from before 2000 is marked as "rare" "collectable!" etc. With fitting "rare item price hike". Unbelievable. Flea markets/garage sales/boot sales are even worse. It's almost like people either know what their stuff is worth and want every penny back they put into it or it gets thrown into the trash straight away. Sad. Thank the spaghetti monster for things like North Star Miniatures and other "big bag" companies ;)

[@RavenAdventwings]

The UK based ebay stores occasionally get second hand minis in stock for about half the retail price. But, as you'll see, most of them will be in somewhat of a sorry state that either needs to be repainted, repaired, or both. Good luck hunting for ones you like! I know I'm still stalking some for myself.

[@SomeDudeOnYouTube]

@@RavenAdventwings OK based stuff has it's own drawbacks with Brexit and all.

[@herrnase4340]

​@@RavenAdventwingsUK became even more expensive. If we'd buy stuff for 50% off from you, we probably still would only save 5€ on a broken and already painted set thats 50€ new. So more work for what ? Not worth it. UK made itself irrelevant as a shopping and/or vacation place.

[@TorianTammas]

I got two bags full of Bretons for about 50 bucks and they are at least 120 minis + 70 horses and other stuff.

[@ScooterinAB]

At best, a lot of what I see is "I charge 2/3 of retail." But by the time I factor in shipping and duties, I'm paying 1.5x retail, and I'm inheriting any build problems or having to strip paint. I've been buying locally at game store swap meets because I can get something someone is trying to get rid off rather than something someone is trying to make money on.

[@ericb9804]

GW may not be THE hobby, but it is A hobby. At this point, GW lore is not just "a story," but pushing 40 years of actual, real-life time and history, which, in today's world, is the only thing that can't be faked. Like it or not, TTWG is riding GW's coat tails, and its ok to admit it. GW is a loathsome, offensive, brute, and yet we cannot look away.

[@jamesodebralski4484]

I have evolved into a more coop style gamer, so games like massive darkness or zombicide are my new go toos. I stopped playing 40k about the end of 8th My son wanted me to play 10th so we played a game, my ork vehicles were just mowed down like tin cans. He had retolls and exploding dice and so many auto wounds with marines that were hitting on a 2+. It was about as fun as a root canal with no pain killers. Confirmed my decision the game was no longer for me. Still play battletech occasionally, its part of me, been with it since the 80s 3D printing has made gaming affordable now, been printing up Puppets war orks, fantastic line BTW. As i develope a no dice skirmish ruleset I have designed my own games since highschool. Some hit it big with friends some needed a lot of work. Really love crunching numbers its a passion i wish i could make money with

[@herrnase4340]

Eyy, Battletech. The game many don't know they need. It is exactly what they wanted before settling for warhammer bc it has the bigger audience.

[@ScooterinAB]

More co-op play would be cool.

[@failfurby]

I got into TTWG for one reason: The T'au. Cool, sleek, big robots with big guns shooting their way across the stars. Over the years, I became less and less interested in the auxiliaries and just wanted more and more Suits. Here is why I quit though: painting isn't my thing so I perpetually had a boring grey army, and games became too stale to want to bother lugging my army to my LGS. I found the main thing I loved about the hobby was just building cool looking models, and that's when the rising costs finally made me throw in the towel. So, now I buy a $15 - $20 Speed Champions LEGO model (not a cheap brand either, I know, but it's still cheaper than what I was spending on GW stuff) every so often to feed two bugs at once: building and cars.

[@herrnase4340]

Thats another big part. GW seeeems like a creative hobby but its VERY limiting in that creative process. I.e. magnetise or you will loose money when we change rules and you cant play certain places and people anymore. Or think about the painting rules. I mean, they introduced toxic rules bc of toxic player behaviour lol Not long and we will have to buy upgrade kits and aren't allowed to play Ultramarines or Imperial Fists without them.

[@bruced648]

have you looked into Gunpla? really intricate models at an affordable price. the kitbash potential is really good and painting is usually optional.

[@failfurby]

@@bruced648 I have, but as much as I love big robots (Gundam was my first big robot love after all) part of my burnout came from doing too many big projects across too many things at the same time. The gunpla models I'd want to build take more time than I want to devote right now. Speed Champions cars are done in a night and cars are another major love of mine.

[@abatter]

I didn't leave GW, I still love the same GW stuff from 20-40 years ago. GW just didn't manage to do anything to make me want to keep up with them since then.

[@jeffreyhenson9630]

I left GW because of the rule changes and because blocking out a entire day to play one game. I have since moved to skirmish games that take a few hours to play. Also it allows me to collect more types of models

[@BethorInvictus]

I got out when my friends who I played with regularly and I myself got kids. So my mind was on totally different things. I got out of pretty much everything when I got kids. And that slowly all build back up. First started playing boardgames again. Than boardgames with miniatures, than painting said miniatures and finally back again at just wargaming. (Still haven't gotten my kids really into wargames yet) I think the only thing I didn't get back into was games workshop wargames, mostly because I discovered the myriad of skirmish type wargames

[@altarofthedeadgods_wargame]

A big thing for me is how long games take. A full aos game is like 3 hours, and a kill team game used to be 50 minutes, now is about 1 hour and a half. That's why I play Altar of the Dead Gods way more often than 40k (even though I have multiple armies painted) I can play 2 + games in an evening and go home early enough to not be a zombie the next morning

[@Mad4saxBrewery]

I love the crafting (building, gluing and painting) of models and I read the lore books. I have whole armies that will never see a game played. I am very happy doing this. Is that strange?? Also love the shirt!

[@BlakesPipes]

Not weird, it's the best part!😊

[@Josuegurrola]

I have done the same. I am chill guy but once I atart "playing" the wargame, I become a friking monster second doubting everything, and wanting to win. I cant have fun so I stopped playing.

[@baronmateo6736]

Easy. Kids. This hobby costs a fortune, and a parent's time is limited to play and paint. You might rather buy clothes and future for your kids, rather than plastic toys to yourself, that you rarely use.

[@kelvingriffiths6017]

True. Good news is as they get older you may be lucky and they get into the hobby. My son has recently turned teenager and now he loves skirmish style games with his old man and schoolmates.

[@baronmateo6736]

@@kelvingriffiths6017 I am dealing with toddlers, but once we get there I will be happy to try. Though I see a high chance of 3d printing my own stuff rather than paying the extra costs of GW

[@HNXMedia]

I have 5 rulesets that I can fit any miniature into from skirmish to large scale battles. You just have to be creative. Number one for me is Bolt Action. I like the mechanics over all other games and I just use that ruleset for any theme I want from WWII to the grimdark future. My other 4 rulesets are: Gaslands (vehicles), Men Who Would Be Kings (10mm warfare), 1490 Doom (small battle - vertical combat), Majestic 13 (campaign skirmish style battles). This style keeps my brain free of overlapping rules and confusion.

[@tmorton42]

Good video! There's another reason folks leave the hobby, finding people to play with. This will be a common story in this hobby, but mine so far has a happy...middle(?) I got into 40k during 8th. Played an escalation league and that was fun (Orks). But didn't really like the game play itself all that much. Then Kill Team came out and I championed that at the FLGS, but the 40k group were going the other way (7,000 point armies and apocalypse which didn't last). I found myself going to the hobby store less and less. Really didn't want to play 40k but couldn't talk anyone into playing anything else. This was the low point and a decision point of whether to leave the hobby. Then I found 3 guys in a nearby town that like skirmish games and basically play anything BUT 40k or AoS. Since then, this has been the best of times. Our group has grown, some play specific games (Bolt Action, Gaslands, Wierdo 'zine games, Alpha Strike). We play waaaay too many different, mostly skirmish, wargames from many, many publishers. Me not liking 40k started with the actual game play more than the cost, but now the cost, and rules churn for GW has gotten out of hand. Fortunately, our little group is there to help those folks stay in the hobby. Side note, 40k is doing fine, FLGS had 24 table 40k event last weekend and it was full.

[@kodosdh]

Currently very happy with Kings of War, and it is much more engaging for me to build and paint an army and be able to play it by the time I finish it without needing to buy more because the rulebook or army book changed. and with that also taking your time to get an army painted to the standard I want is much more relaxed

[@redsven7624]

My wargaming hobby is fit and well, my 'warhammer' (one of the more obnoxious GW inventions) hobby is largely dead. Biggest saviour was unbinding minis from specific games, and embracing mini agnostic gaming Honestly the biggest factor in the GW turn off is three-fold. One the game experience their games deliver is not what I want. Constant churn with 3 years cycles, terrible internal balance issues don't help Two their minis are generally less fun to build and paint than others for me, fiddly amounts of details, a lot of flash and terrible sprue layout. Three the price, given the above my value perception has decreased and prices have increased. Yeah AMG minis have jumped in price but I have never not enjoyed their games, and love painting them so my value perception is much higher

[@Josuegurrola]

Perfectly put. The economy is hurting bad for me. No good times to spent on grey plastic.

[@PatrioticGinger1776]

After nearly a decade since learning about wargaming and 6 years of actively buying miniatures and rulebooks. I have finally started playing regularly at my LGS the past couple months. It's been awesome!

[@BrunoBaronet]

You hadn't come up on my feed in a long time. Good to see and hear you again. I always appreciate your sound, great audio. This is a good video and I can make a few connections to other hobbies. Seems to be a time of introspection for all of us.

[@tripfoward]

I have a condition known as children which impedes me. I paint with them ... But then I'm just helping them instead of painting myself. I savor every moment of it, but my own painting has been on hold for years now.

[@brianshobbyspace3569]

Casual gamer and father of 2 here. I used to play AOS about every other month with the only other English speaker that I know, I live in Japan, but now we never play. ４.0 just took all the joy and quirkiness out of the game for me. We plan to play again soon but will stick with the 3.0 rules. Luckily, neither of us ever updated the stupid app so we can still make lists. Man I wish GW would have left the old list builder up on the community website for legacy players. That just seemed like a petty move.

[@herrnase4340]

They only care for the money, doesnt matter if you play. Maybe get that version of .apk for the future bc the will eventually stop working

[@brianshobbyspace3569]

@herrnase4340 what's .apk?

[@BootsontheTable]

Not my experience on the historical side of the hobby - I can honestly say it's never in better health and generally seems to get younger. Still plenty of us Old Grosnards, but when I go to shows and events there are lots more women and younger people which is exciting. I dont think things like 40k help much with the flow of your hobby journey - we all have periods we have to step away for work, family, health etc, but if you come back and everything has changed, your armies aren't 'valid' etc, that must be depressing. The thing is if you have an 1812 French Napoleonic army, or a WW2 Panzer force - the rules might change but they wont as its history!

[@herrnase4340]

Imagine not playing/painting for some time bc of depression. You come back and they're like: "Your army is shit now, oh and btw you need new books to play. Thats at least 200+ money. And better start painting!". Pc gaming is also bigger than ever and also more toxic than ever. Bigger=worse in most cases bc of statistics. Just bc there's more diverse people doesn't mean those are quality people. It only means there's more people and more chances to run across an arsehole

[@BootsontheTable]

@herrnase4340 tragic really. No community is immune to toxicity or a holes sadly but I don't see anywhere like that level. As he says in the video, just agree with your friends to continue using the 'old' version. But we all love the shiny new things I guess

[@oskar6661]

More importantly, unless you have weirdly based/scaled stuff...historicals are rules-agnostic. I write and sell an Old West game, and the beauty of it is, I used my minis/terrain to try out five or six other Old West games before writing my own. So yeah, if you have a historical unit you will always be able to play in a half dozen different games with them...leaving you tons of options. Even in historicals I frequently see entire game groups shift. "Oh, we were playing ADLG...but now this game out and we all prefer it", etc.

[@sandros949]

I never got all that update-stuff. We play base 8th edition since it came out. No new editions, no updates. Keeps everybody happy here.

[@Voltekker]

I stay motivated by understanding that it ebbs and flows, when the drive is low i look at the various painting communities or i try to schedule a hobby night with meat-space friends. Right now I am doing Paint Slam 2025 and I have a goal i am working towards.

[@BlakesPipes]

Enjoying the new editing and graphics. Start and finish looked great. Thanks for all the entertainment sir, see you on sunday.

[@The-Avien]

I’ve been into wargaming for nearly 30 years now and I’ve never considered myself to have left the hobby at any stage. I’ve had lulls and where one or other aspect have taken a backseat but I’ve never been all out. At this point war gaming is such an integral part of who I am that I couldn’t disentangle from it even if I wanted to. In my early teens it was all about playing as much as possible, during college I played a lot but found my love of the lore. In my twenties I really engaged with painting and modelling with some gaming. In my thirties I had kids and they ate up the majority of my hobby time so I fell back to lore to keep engaged, and the odd small painting project on the side but the actual gaming end has suffered a lot. Actually think it’s been 2 years since my last wargame. I’ve taken up 3d printing to fill in the gaps and let me explore the settings I enjoy in scales that aren’t supported officially. My experience has been that the nature of my hobby enjoyment can change to suit my life but it doesn’t go away

[@BetaRayBill32]

A lot of this sounds like a GW problem. I do wonder if another part of it is that miniature wargaming is really a group of other hobbies that are only loosely related. That means there's a good chance that you don't really care for one part of the hobby while you love another part. That's a recipe for getting burned out.

[@alecseuslev9054]

The problem with "make your own changes" is that very, very many people don't want to play with house rules even outside of tournaments. Hell, even outside wargames I've been arguing with people who don't want to use Massive Darkness 2 fan difficulty expansion because "it's not official."

[@TorianTammas]

Most people have trouble remembering and playing accurately with existing rules

[@tabletopminions]

If the rules are the problem for you, then the solution is to play with folks who don’t mind changing the rules. Yes, you probably won’t be able to play with all the people at the local shop, but you might be able to play with SOME and play the way you all want, and that’s better than not playing at all. Thanks for watching!

[@kaceeiacovone7840]

In my city we are getting more and more wargamers. People aren't leaving the hobby, they are leaving GW.

[@KamenRiderGreed]

First of all, let me just say, GREAT video. Excellent work. I feel like I needed this, on some level at least. Because I have been falling out of love with the Wargaming hobby to a degree at least. I don't truly know why, but the excitement I used to feel to get models to the table to create lists and armies for different games(mostly Age of Sigmar) just. . . Isn't there like it used to be. I can identify factors as to why, but none of them satisfy me as "the answer" and I feel like I'm crawling out of a deep pit just to do anything with the actual building and crafting. A Necromunda Campaign with friends has helped reinvigorate me, but even that excitement I feel is dwindling. I used to attend regular local tournaments and play casual games at home with friends about once a month or so. But now I can't bring myself to do it. I want to be excited like I used to again, I want to look forward to building and painting models to play with them. But I feel like I'm forcing it if I even try at all. This video has helped on some level, but I still feel like I haven't found my answer. It hasn't reignited that passion and desire I once had.

[@theDriveGuy84]

I am new to the hobby, in fact just within a year. I was inspired while attending Spiel Essen 24’ playing some demos of Hersoscape, AoS, etc. I went all in buying the Ultimate starter set for 40K 10th edition. I’ve survived so far and even bought KoW starter set. I’ve almost completely painted all miniatures and still enjoy them. From my prospective the thing that would drive me to leave is miniatures price and not being able to play solo. However, I’ve come to appreciate and learn a lot from this channel and others, to enjoy several other rule sets of miniatures agnostic games and being able to find great solo sets or other games that allow me to play solo campaigns or one off games. I don’t NEED to continue buying GW models or armies. I just needed to find other ways to play with my existing miniatures. And I don’t need to find a club or buddies to play with. I have four kids and very little time. But I can use OPR Quest campaign rules, or Stargrave, Deth Wizards, etc.

[@ChalkanCheese]

I've enjoyed this hobby for many years, it began as a progression from Transformers comics to 2000ad, the Judge Dredd rpg, D&D and finally discovering White Dwarf. Which led to over 10 years of playing WFRPG with friends. I love the aesthetics and lore of the 40k universe but the scale and rules always felt too bloated. Space crusade and Space Hulk are about as far as I can commit.

[@wildphotoznz]

My biggest problem with GW is their marketing and stocking practice's leaves small regional stores (I live in regional WA Australia) virtually unable to stock any other game systems since they have so many thousands of dollars caught up in mandatory stock etc.. leaving me with only GW games in these regions to play if I want to get a game in.

[@jake53105]

I bounced off this hobby a half dozen times before i stuck with it. For me it was painting and how daunting it was to approach. I remember i bought an entire metal collection of old school Dark Elves and i absolutely butchered the Hydra. I sold the whole set and walked away from the hobby for years.

[@CurtissChevalier]

Social media has made wargaming largely more about painting and playing with figurines than strategy. I grew up playing wargames with my dad and some of the best games were basic and crude in appearance. That's not what is important with games. I think social media also brought more people into wargaming that aren't even into strategy games but just want to collect and play with figures. That's fine, but it's not going to keep people hooked like the games themselves do.

[@AngryAcolyte]

I’d argue that painting and playing are 2 different hobbies. Painting dominates social media and I definitely can see painting insecurity resulting from that

[@sujet]

Great editing in this video! I started Warhammer back in 2003ish, fell out around 2007 due to real world stuff time was hard to come by. Started back with some Warhammer but now loving all the other options out there. Got a folder full of PDFs and shelf full of physical books.

[@fightingfortruth9806]

Warhammer became way too expensive. I recently got in 20mm (1/72) scale WW2 gaming. The price is much, much lower. A box of 50 soldiers can cost as low as $10 on Ebay. I got a bundle of over 300 soldiers for about $60 from various ww2 nation factions.

[@andrewandresen1316]

40K brought me into the hobby and while I collect and paint 40K and AoS it’s really Marvel Crisis Protocol that keeps me in the hobby. Models are just easier to build, fun and simple to paint, and the rules are easier to wrap my head around.

[@Ghislain82]

I've been 3D printing an "Ork" knight army. 3D printing has opened up so many creative avenues. I'm enjoying it so much more than the strict tournament rules for assembling 40k models. I realized I have no interest in tournaments. I've spoken to my FLGS owners, and none have expressed any issue with 3D printing other than their GW sponsored tournaments, which don't interest me anyway.

[@mtgmac1]

I quit Games Workshop games, because I plain ol' hate Games Workshop for what it did to its games. But GW's hold on the wargaming world is so great where I am that I will probably be quitting wargaming altogether. Any game I try and "infect" my friends and gaming club with ends up falling flat because 40k is just too powerful here and they inevitably end up returning to play 40k, even though half of them openly talk about hating the rules and most of them don't even look like they are enjoying themselves when they are playing. This hobby is a social hobby and its slowly becoming a "more trouble than its worth" one.

[@riptide8350]

There is a reason I keep my first ever painted mini on my paint desk in a little display box. It keeps me from comparing myself to the internet too much and a reminder of where I started to where I am now.

[@kevinprice7620]

First of all, I really like the t-shirt. I feel that the gaming community or gamers themselves can be a big part of the reason for people leaving the hobby and conversly a big part of why people start playing. I dont' want to be all negative. I do fall into that casual/recreation gamer spot from the survey playing monthly or less, so I don't have the time to build a community or promote a game that I choose, but need to rely on what's being played in the local community to get some game time in. In my local area of several different stores GW does seem to reign supreme. I would agree that it's their marketing and constant media presence with not just miniature releases, but toys, books/comics, shows, video games, etc that keeps them in the forefront. That leads to the vicious circle that the popular games in the community affects what gamers stay in that community and which ones leave because they don't feel like they fit into the community any more. This is where I find myself. I enjoy the building and painting side of the hobby, but the gaming side I enjoyed where you pushed some miniatures around the table and throw some dice to have some laughs at the results and maybe some stories aftwerward doesn't seem to be out there anymore. It all feels optomized, combo based, and score/result driven to me anymore.

[@kitsune303]

I left 40K due to endless tweaks on rules and lore and overly picky criticisms of my paint ("You should have used Naggaroth Night there" or "Are you still using Nuln Oil?"). Battletech is almost as bad with the number of factions but players are more accepting of non-canonical painting. I found I enjoy painting more than playing.

[@TorianTammas]

Really in 40k I have seen unpainted, base coat is all you need, two color schemes done in a hurry while on an airplane in a storm and the really great paints. Overall the majority wasn't in the hobby for the painting

[@jorgesotherusername]

Infinity was my introduction to the hobby in 2016. I bounced off of it hard, mainly due to my community’s emphasis on (and reverence for) emulating studio quality paint jobs. I was saved from leaving the hobby altogether by a prepainted game, Star Wars Armada (RIP). FFG primed me for a return to painting with Legion, although I have since stopped any new Star Wars gaming purchases thanks to AMG’s aggressive price increases. When I do play Legion, I’m happy to play at home and skip the 2.0 rules. Now I nearly exclusively play “dead” or mini agnostic games and rely on Wargames Atlantic (and similar) and small Etsy sellers for models.

[@edwardclay7551]

I quit warhammer 40k with the release of 9th. I've stayed in the hobby in general via miniature agnostic games. My most recent project is setting up the hostiles and board for Endless Horrors from Between The Stars. (A Forbidden Psalm Eldritch Horror setting) that covers medieval, turn of the century and modern settings. (I chose medieval first. So ordered some giant rat minis and some Frostgrave Knights to work against the Frostgrave Cultists I already own.)

[@c4darkmane616]

Love the smash mouth reference, I now want a full parody version of the song

[@chadkittleson5447]

Tusken Raider shirt always banger. Also, I almost gave up on the hobby in the beginning but convinced myself to press on and finished my first war band. The feeling of seeing completed project got me hooked and I've never looked back.

[@jamesbeanmachine857]

I was already rarely finding time to paint, and almost never anyone to play. Then I moved to a new country to live with my spouse, and currently don't have enough space for a hobby corner. So my miniature case is gathering dust back at my mum's place lol

[@user-Brian_Gregory]

I haven't left wargaming, but I've almost entirely switched from army-scale games to skirmish-scale games, driven largely by rules changes to my "main" games: 40K nerfing Space Marines to try to force SM players to re-buy their armies as "Primaris", and Warmachine's goofy Mk4 "teleporting" movement- a "fix" to a non-existent problem that required units to be downsized to the point of near-uselessness. My friends and I talk about playing earlier editions of those games, but with so many cool skirmish game options on the market, we have yet feel the urge to dust off the old armies.

[@pinguinposted990]

Yes. Just use the rules as they are in the rules book. But then you won't play much, too because the tournament players wont do that. I was just told: I dont want to have to remember different rule sets. Just dont play 40K.

[@TricksyVixxy]

I think I am fortunate in that the only reason that I play big army games is so I have an excuse to show off my paint jobs 😅 if the model doesn't meet the expectation on the gaming table, I chalk it up to them just being too fabulous 🤣

[@briansmaller7443]

The ability to delay gratification in an era of immediate gratification. Unless you enjoy painting it can be a chore - and even when you enjoy the process it can drag.

[@marty67890]

I could never leave the hobby, I just adapt the way I partake in it. For example I now play small figure count games to counter the price rises of figures

[@maxxon99]

Like my coach used to say: You have to have motivation. Everything else you can buy or learn, but without motivation you’ll have nothing. If you have motivation, you’ll find some way to overcome the hurdles. Without it, they become excuses to quit.

[@NecroNikos]

Our group quited all together GW and started other skirmish games that had around 10 figures per game which rules are more stable for longer period. Our figures live longer in the battlefield than in a warhammer game so you can enjoy the paintjob and the base you made many hours. Also by having less figures you can concentrate on painting a figure for longer time than if you had to paint 50 figures for a new army. Lastly we changed a lot of our hobby paints and materials for better quality and quantity than what this brand offers.

[@GamemastersHobby]

"Ignore the updates" That felt good. -- I couldn't agree more. And you know what? I desperatly needed to hear that from someone like you in order to allow myself to do it. Sometimes is not just because of the investment of both: time and money in a new edition. It's because of how much I enjoy and I invested in the "obsolete" edition. I don't want to let go. Thank you Uncle Atom!

[@AeonVoom]

The first time i left the hobby was in the late 90s/early 2000s when GW switched to plastics. Now i can already hear some people go "bUt pLaStiC iS sO mUcH nIcer!" And some even thought this might bring down the prices. But this is GW we're talking about. Spoiler: it dod not of course. Pewter feels more valuable. If you ever had a pewter dreadnought in your hand, you'll know what i mean. That was the first strike. The second strike came when the conversion to Euro hit us euros. GW changed the prices dramatically. So not only did i have to pay more for (to me back then) inferior plastic - and lets be real, the first plastic kits were inferior to pewter - but plastic was all you got suddenly. When i came back to the hobby in 2018 i started broader. First i painted minis for my D&D games, then ran into Infinity (pewter, yay) and finally got talked to get back into GW stuff. I got back into 8th 40k, which quickly turned into a mess. I stuck around for it for better or worse, but GW changes the meta on a whim, just to make you buy more minis, especially for their poster boys the space marines. Even if you do not play to tournament standard, their way of releasing new minis with the new rules, means you will get fucked over. In other competetive games like Infinity, the rules are updated per season - you know what you are getting. even unreleased models are statted out and unlike GW games, proxies are generally accepted. even on tournaments. When 9th 40k hit i dipped out, after it effectively meant that i would have had to rebuy two whole armies to be able to play them again. But now i am older and wiser and explored a host of other new games. So my advise is: go out there explore other games. buy their 2 player starter, paint both forces up and show it to your friends. There is a chance they might enjoy it too and get "infected"!

[@markwatson8714]

I expect we'll see a wave of enthusiasts coming in when the new Gundam game gets released this summer, followed by a wave of disappointed enthusiasts leaving in Fall after they experience the joy of primarily white paint jobs ....

[@roberthart3305]

Wargaming (40k) bought me back into the hobby (I stopped due to time constraints when my kids were born) when my kids discovered it during a road trip rest stop and we were wandering around a mall in Hartford CT, and they saw the GW store. After about 10 years, I finally gave up and sold all my 40k stuff as I was tired of Codex creep and tournament power lists. I am now back to historical miniatures, focusing primarily on WW2 and Modern with 6mm micro-armor and hex and counter games. Way cheaper than 40k and I'm much happier without the stress of trying to keep up. I would say that I can't believe that 40k is on 10th edition, but I'm not. I always go back to the point a friend of mine made several years ago, that GW is a model company that sells rules to increase their sales. They are not a game company. The same argument applies to Bolt Action and Flames of War and other such systems. Just one more point from a historical gamer, any General in history that tried to fight a fair battle would more than likely lose.

[@cavemanman2363]

Great video. I hate to admit it but, I have fallen out of the hobby in recent years. Moved to an area with no local store and without have any social media presence i haven't been able to meet other enthusiasts. I still pick up and paint some of the old pile of shame sometimes. And I keep up with videos like these.

[@TheChaseLane]

Uncle Adam, I think you forgot a pretty common reason people leave the hobby. It's the main reason why I left the GW hobbyspace. Some people's "Local Friendly Gamestore" isn't so friendly. I used to be harassed and threatened because I painting my primaris spacemarines like old retro Ultramarines from 2nd edition. They would say things like "I should kill myself because I play Ultramarines" or "I'm just a waste of a table because I don't follow the lore in how I paint my models." Sometimes the GW community is disgusting. I left in the middle of 9th edition and never looked back. Granted... I havent been playing as many wargames because everyone around here plays 40k. I play Star Wars Legion about 3 times a year. I really wish I get more games in with reasonable people. Love your videos, keep up the good work!

[@oskar6661]

You've just also discovered why the GW scene is very much the "kiddie pool" of wargaming. If you're a competent adult with a vaguely reasonable space..you're not going to be playing at the local game store, but at home where you have snacks, a bathroom and don't have to smell nerd butt for three hours. People ask why I don't go to the local game stores more...because I have a man cave with a big table, comfy chairs/sofas and all the accoutrement...including nice terrain and all my fully painted models, etc. There are loads of cool small groups gaming...at home. You're mostly getting riff-raff at the local game store.

[@ScooterinAB]

Jesus. While dunking on Ultramarines is fun as hell, that's brutal.

[@kevinprice7620]

Count yourself as fortunate. Many of us don't have the space or gaming groups to play at home and use the local stores as community centers to find people to play with or games to play.

[@nicsutton8367]

Could you make a video exploring other high-quality miniature model companies that sell their kits on sprues? One of the biggest strengths of Games Workshop models is their level of customization, which adds to the hobby’s creative appeal. For example, I recently got into building Gundam models, and while they definitely satisfy the hands-on modeling experience, they lack the customization and wargaming aspects that make Warhammer so engaging. It would be great to see a comparison of different model lines that offer both intricate designs and the potential for kitbashing or tabletop play.