Exposing RC's BIGGEST Scam

[@TailHeavyProductions]

Special thanks to Joe for letting us learn more about his testing process! Link to the tests, as mentioned in the video, is available in the video description. 🔋✈

[@dragonhero7975]

My West friend I also a rc model plane's lover , I don't know what to said about those some batteries manufacturers , some batteries brands they might have west politicians as their shared holders in those companies . Which means some of those brands will only focus on profits only ,the only way solution is you all should ownself independent have a batteries testing system on what batteries you all bought for your rc models regardless if it's a drones,plane's,cars ,robots . This is just my opinion analysis only. Patience and stay healthy always my West friend.😇

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

I learned the hard way of not storing my massive bike battery nun chuck packs improperly, they were over 100% from the factory & sat because i ran out of funds to complete my converted e-bike, my slice cells are big so I'm not sure if 3.7v per cell will apply, can i put the whole pack at a certain percentage? Or how do i find the safe voltage per cell for my unique pack?

[@beargillium2369]

I've always been a cheapskate and just gone gentle on the best "deal" I can get, give or take a few bucks for a much higher rating, and just always thought I was lucky and careful, this is very enlightening 😅

[@typxxilps]

most usefull video in the past year for sure cause I was not aware of the c rating scam and Joes huge effort to clean the dirt out of the market.

[@r3beatty]

i fly small planes, and thereby use smaller/cheaper batteries. I don't mind too much when a $12 battery isn't as advertised- a minor annoyance. I can't imagine getting $200 junk batteries.

[@DivisionRc]

Same. For my bigger planes I use the Motionrc Admiral lipos For small drones I use GNB/CNHL lipos, and bigger drones CNHL

[@iwontreplybacklol7481]

Most Ive ever spent on a single battery was $120, I claim a temporary lapse of sanity. I sold it and the model after only a few flights. To rich for my blood.

[@yodecaf]

I use this guys chart for every battery purchase! You guys are bringing your A game to the industry.

[@ericklein5097]

His charts dictate my buying choices as well. I don't open my wallet until Joe has shown the numbers and its in the top 10%

[@hydrojet7x70]

Been telling people this for over a decade. Finally a video to prove it.

[@bugsy742]

That’s because you may have missed the link at 4:57 buddy - it’s all there 👍

[@TailHeavyProductions]

Hey, we can't force anyone to watch the video fully or read the description, so thanks for pointing that out @land of saints FPV

[@bugsy742]

@@TailHeavyProductions the fact is has a few likes too AND it’s another RC channel is bewildering at best! 😩😅 🤝

[@bugsy742]

@@AussieRCPlayground mate you didn’t reply! 😩 I helped you out so you didn’t look like a teenage girl crying over another content creator’s vid of the same genre as your own, almost like some weird miss placed jealousy! You’ve got gangs of subs & viewers so you’re comment then silence is just odd to be honest mate! That said I suppose true colours always show through, I used to like Jimmy Savile as a kid, loved Rolf Harris, lots of people used to like Ellen Degenerate, see where I’m going with this mate?! I’ve kept as civil as I can with my words out of respect for the channel we are conversing on suffice to say to either owe the bloke an apology or you are a Stopped myself as maybe you were just having an off day or something 🤷‍♂️

[@bugsy742]

@@AussieRCPlayground ok mate ✌🏼

[@steelrainfpv3383]

Thank you for interviewing Joe and finally putting this information out to the unassuming hobby masses, I used to test quad copter batteries years ago with a little lower tech device and saw the extreme lies and differences back then, which continues today. I also like that your channel is transparent and not a sellout to get free stuff by promoting garbage products, like some KZbinrs do with certain brands, erhrmm Spektrum branded batteries and other products cough, cough.

[@jamesonclark5854]

Always happy to see Joe get more exposure! He has helped my lipo purchasing decisions a ton!!

[@GBLynden]

This was a great video for sure!

[@K5_BlaZer]

Fantastic video! I think it's also worth acknowledging that the RC industry is small enough that we, the consumer are the QC department and our small size makes for little to no standardization. So this is how you end up with obsurd C rates.

[@techstuff6829]

No, it's manufacturers lying and customers buying them anyway. There was a battery company that advertised "true" C ratings, but their sales were crap and so even they had to start using "marketing" C ratings.

[@spindash64]

​@@techstuff6829this feels like something that manufacturers could be taken to court over if we could put together a good enough case

[@FinalGlideAus]

Good to see someone else fighting for this. I remember going to GensAce in China and interviewing their battery techs who admitted that c ratings between companies were useless as they had their own testing system. I tried to use the power of Rotor Riot in 2016 to develop a testing and ranking system for lipos similar to this for the FPV community but it just got too hard to get started.

[@Stygmah]

Hope you are doing well mate. It's good to see you're name pop up here.

[@mr.p9882]

My gosh, recreational batteries were so important you went to CHINA!!!!!???????

[@UC241]

Thank's Joe, It is nice to have people like you testing products to assure authentic quality. More quality testers are needed in every field for all products.

[@brsrc759]

You guys do some seriously professional style productions. This is a highly underrated channel. I'm surprised your subscriber count isn't around 500K

[@davemcddd]

Great video! I've been telling people about Joe's thread and test results for years. It's a wealth of lipo knowledge. I ended up buying some SMC lipos solely because of his thread because I'd never even heard of SMC before then. And more importantly, Joe's testing has steered me (and others) clear of buying some expensive lipos with familiar names.

[@rodgersrcaviation2785]

I’ve noticed in my few years of flying and being on a budget. The cheaper packs have out performed the expensive high rating ones. My testing has been put two diffent batteries in same airplane and pin em wide open to see which one starts falling off first. I totally believe hat this guy says

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

And that does hurt both batteries in the process. Curious how many cycles you get out of your packs?

[@rodgersrcaviation2785]

@@user-rs8zg8ey2b why would it hurt my packs. I have some that’s well over five years old and have hundreds of cycles on them. Still perfectly ok. I’m not running them to Low voltage cut. Jus waiting on a noticeable difference

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

@@rodgersrcaviation2785 I believe WOT till they show a noticeable drop (usually around 3.7ish voltage) will cost you some life cycles. Now there is a lot of other variables that that you did not mention, whaat pack capacity and how long does it take to drop. I run 4s-1300-65c in my quad and full thro blips are 120A, thats ~90c, and fly for 90 sec, LOS freestyle, I have many packs over 1000 (after ~1200 I retire them to my 3d planes and get another 1000 cycles) cycles. flying like this

[@rodgersrcaviation2785]

@@user-rs8zg8ey2b so I’m a fixed wing guy. And have been a drone guy. The current draw on a pack on a airplane is way differnt than a drone. But u got three d stuff too so I figure u understand that. My aircraft batteries come out the plane at three point 7 volt and I only fly this way to test its. Not normally practice. Have u ever flown an edf jet.

[@MrWhatahelisdis]

Yo! You put every KZbinr that I watch to shame! I've learned so many technical aspects about the hobby from you guys. The others are great for flight demos, minor tips and tricks, and understandable information for beginners. But you cater more to the modeler that's been in it for more than a couple years. Thanks for all of the useful info!

[@jdsstegman]

Honest, the truth, and best advice right here! I have personally been testing every pack I buy for every plane/edf/rc car and truck/rc helicopter/ and such. Some are good and under rated. Some are seriously over rated on there labels. Then I match the pack to the toys needs/ usage. So they don't go to waste really. Like a 100c rated pack that truly is only 50c, then I don't run them I'm a aircraft that needs 80 to 100c. So I still use them. Every thing Joe says, I have believed for years. I store cold(60 degrees), 3.7 storage. And I'm never in a hurry and I change at 1c. And I charge to 4.1 just like joe. And yes, never cold!! I have some lipo pack that are over 12 years old. Still gJoe. Never puffed a battery yet.

[@savage_x89]

Haha! That's us! That's the RCLCP Podcast!! @9:51 I've been loving those liperiors that Richard sent us!

[@moepow8160]

A comment was made about trying to inform flyer for years about Battery maintenance and fliers never listened. Same here, I'm not not bragging, but experience in Battery Shop combined with my main AFSC, Aircraft Electrician durring my service in the AirForce really sharpened my skills with flight packs. I tried as well to pass on battery maintenance info, but you have guys that think they know everything about flight batteries because they called the company and talked to their technicians, and got most of the fliers on board with them. That's the worst way to get true info as Joe points out. Thanks Joe I really appreciate your hard work and time., I don't have the amount of experience you have, but my basic Battery knowledge was right on the money according to your test results. As far a passing on info I just stopping trying to help it was too exhausting. Now you can get it on Joe's KZbin page.

[@RickOAA]

Good video. My worst luck has been the generic blue packs that come with a lot of cheap RC's. They work well for a time, then drop a cell...and explode.

[@butterflyfpv]

This is so important! We need all big youtubers to do a video about this! Thank you guys!

[@mannyfreeze8821]

As a german, I trust in SLS LiPos. Yes, they are more expensive, but: If they list a 40C Rating, It is at least 40C but most of the times even higher. Many People have tested it (Me Included), I can easily pull 80A out of the 40C 3s 2200mAh and it does not even get hot. Scientific tests like in this video are also availible from a independet tester. But yes, that 3s 2200mAh with 40C costs 30€ (35$) But I know what I will be getting and know that the batterys are high quality. I am done with the days of Hobbyking Packs.

[@5123rick]

Haha I assume you're being sarcastic? Trust germans , they have an a great record for trustworthiness 😅

[@mannyfreeze8821]

Not being sarcastic at all 😅 The C rating on them is very correct. Got a new 4s 5000mah with 40C constant which means 200A max continuous current. Pulled a constant 140Amps out of it and it did not even get warm… Current spikes are even higher.

[@pontiacg445]

@@mannyfreeze8821 You pulled more than 1.5 times the current rating of xt90 and it didn't even heat up? 140A through what's probably 10 gauge wire, no heating at all? Pretty impressive! Considering all the testing this man in the video did, with results posted in the description, never had a worthy battery not pass 130degrees+ must mean that SLS batteries are built with some kind of magic. German trustworthiness! Or incompetence? Going with the latter.

[@joblessalex]

This would explain a ton. Used to use them for doing Ebike stuff. Ebikes are extremely demanding. Kept blowing up packs and had no clue why. They're 80C! WTF! Well, now I know. Someone needs to outlaw this kind of lying.

[@markwood7759]

I was a buyer of Lipos for one of the UK's biggest distributors since Lithium based batteries came out. I never found a battery from my own testing that exceeded 45C. In fact, when you asked manufacturers directly (and pushed for the truth) they all admitted it. The technology was/is incapable of exceeding that figure. I have visited many factories and i now know the parts of battery design and manufacturing that affect performance. One of the biggest ways to measure how good a battery performs is resistance. It manifests itself in lower output voltage and high heat. If manufacturing quality control is poor you can get wide variations in each batch, some good some poor. Chinese manufacturers have A and B quality selection. Sometimes, brand buyers have a mix of the two to get a better overall price. You get a quality lottery! C rate is probably the most unreliable indicator of battery performance. We were always honest but it probably hurt sales. It did protect brand integrity though. As an aside, full size cars use very, very low C rate batteries (5C) and each cell is barely pushed. They rely on voltage not amps to get power. Understressed batteries last much, much longer.

[@shaneflutsch2270]

Considering how much knowledge this guy has about lipo batteries, I wish some of it could be shared with say the general automotive community. Mainly consumers. The people buying a Tesla and just driving it. The 40-60° storage temp rule plus charging at a certain rate to improve battery life for example... Things people need to be aware of. Yes, every charge and discharge cycle is degrading your battery. Every single one. Whether it's a little or a lot depends on the owner... Hybrid and ev cars really are just 100s if not 1000s of smaller lipo cells put together in a larger than life battery pack. Had a few classes on hybrid and ev battery packs while I worked for one of the big three a couple years ago. And I've seen a few things... People act like it's completely different rules than with rc models but not really ... Considering that I'm about to get into planes after having a couple older Traxxas stampedes and a 4 channel helicopter, I'm really grateful to hear someone actually testing capacity. It might not matter so much on my first foam airplane that I learn on, but it will matter in the future. Especially if I build a big ducted fan or big warbird. Overheating in the air would not be cool... Overpaying for an over-rated battery is also not cool lol. So pretty helpful info all around

[@air-headedaviator1805]

Well this is kinda funny, I always bought cheap with batteries due to financial reasons. Thats why I ended up becoming a customer to RC Battery. Now I learn that they’re some of the better manufacturers in the business. I accidented a win!

[@tboystoys5682]

WOW!!! I’m new to the RC hobby and I just took really no mind to the battery Charge it put it in the plane run it down to about 30% and take it home Cherie it and out the door the next time I flew. Well I would like to say thanks to both you and joe for explaining batteries to me. I was just buying whatever. Now I realize I can spend more money on batteries than planes. I will be paying more attention to what brand I buy and how I care for them now. Thanks Guys from Cape Breton Island 🇨🇦🇨🇦. HAPPY FLYING ✈️✈️

[@toolbaggers]

There are only a small handful of battery manufacturers. Most batteries come from the same factory with different labels where the middlemen slap on labels and charge premium prices for the labels. It's exactly like no-name grocery products that come from the same assembly line as the name brand crap.

[@sgcdialler]

In addition to that, all lipo cells are an engineered product, and they have natural variance. Even a known good manufacturer like Grepow (parent Corp of Gensace and Tattu) have low spec products that they will sell cheaper than their premium packs

[@joeyoutdoors]

Grepow Battery Co., Ltd. manufactures batteries for various brands and applications. Here are some of the battery brands that Grepow is associated with: 1. Gens Ace: Gens Ace is a well-known brand of high-performance LiPo batteries for RC models, drones, and other electronic devices. 2. Tattu: Tattu is another brand of LiPo batteries primarily designed for the drone and RC market, known for their reliability and performance. 3. Pulse: Pulse is a brand that specializes in LiPo batteries for the RC market, including RC cars, boats, helicopters, and airplanes. 4. Floureon: Floureon is a brand that offers a range of batteries, including LiPo batteries, for various electronic devices such as cameras, radios, and handheld devices. 5. Sunpadow: Sunpadow is a brand that focuses on high-performance LiPo batteries for the RC racing market, particularly for RC cars.

[@spindash64]

I think this applies to a LOT of the electronics in RC...

[@edwinthomas618]

Great video. Im a heli guy and I remember Thunder Tiger back in 2007 and they were expensive then. then everyone love Pulse. I've had Gens Aces and Glacier that have last for many years with IR numbers less than 10.

[@tinytim307]

Thank you so much for getting this info out for people like me and everyone else. I appreciate it.

[@randyailie3459]

I have been on his thread on RCG for more years than I can remember. Kudos to the truth being proved here! You rock and my deepest thank you for what you have done for us in the community.

[@CodySiler]

This is great, and he seems like a cool dude doing honest work.

[@BashTillBroken]

Love this, you are saving thousands of beginners 1000s of dollars

[@SquiggyWigginz]

I've got over 300 packs of various sizes in my basement, some puffy, some not. How old and when should you dispose of one? Some are over 10 years old.

[@jasonjohnson7241]

Great vid. I've been in the hobby since 2007 and right out the gate I thought it was a bad idea to charge at higher than 1C. I also have always religiously storage charged my batts. I fly everything that flies from 700 size electric helicopters to planes to quads to even one of those damn HK paramotor things and my process is the same. I don't charge any batteries until the day I'm going to fly, I storage charge them as soon as I get home and I keep them in a cool place. Most of my packs are several years old and still going well. I monitor internal resistance and individual cell voltages. I've never paid attention to the bogus C ratings or even brands to be honest. I will say I've never owned Max Amps and only owned one Thunder Power 3s 2200 pack I ran in a 450 helicopter and that battery didn't last 10 cycles so never again. I've had good results from Pulse, great results from Lectron Pro and even great luck from cheap lipos off of Amazon.

[@franciscoduran3688]

Great video! I knew something but learned about storage temp and charging temp, super!

[@OregunAdventure]

Most don’t realize they don’t own a model capable of more than a 10c discharge rate. Higher millamps is what we need. The higher the mah, the lower the voltage drop under load.

[@dihler55]

Thank you for shedding some light in the world of misconception that are LiPos

[@eIektrinis]

Puffing is a symptom of bad quality cells. A reliable method to check quality is to check how identical the cells are. Good cells don't require "matching", they roll "matched" from assembly line. I'm saying this as automotive battery engineer.

[@Rcenthusiast90]

UMMMM. no puffing occurs when reaching 3.5v or less under load. ANY Lipo will puff under these condition no matter who makes it. Including Tesla. ONCE a pack gets to 3.5 the heat shoots up and that's is what starts the expanding of the packs.

[@highnitro707]

I remember back in the nicd nimh days. manufactures stood by the label on the cells indicating actual test data of that cell... and boy did you have to pay for the good high spec matched cell packs... obviously the customer base with lipos has become so broad that only few care about absolute performance. how times have changed lol. great vid

[@jimcrackery8321]

This was crazy, I literally opened a text editor and took notes! EPIC episode

[@FarmerFpv]

I've had the best luck with Vant Lipo Batteries. They are only sold on eBay. The price is good and I use them in my high-powered RC boats which draw many more amps than an EDF or Prop plane does. Their 5200 6s 45c lipos have been running in my RC boats for 4 years and still fly my EDFs with no problem. Water has so much drag if you use a crap battery it will puff instantly. I tried CNHL 5200 and they turned into balloons in under a minute in my 80mph fast Cat Cheetah twin. I also started using SMC and they do excellent in my RC boats. I run 4 x 6s 5200 mah packs. 2 in series and 2 in parallel. 12s 10400mah. I haven't tried much of anything else. I just know if they perform in my RC Boats then it's a cakewalk in my RC planes and EDF jets.

[@matthewdurkee5673]

One of the reasons i like Glo engines . They either run or don't. You can also rebuild them if you can find parts.

[@rcplanesandfriends3067]

Great information! I'll be sharing this with all of our members! Thank you!

[@Wooskii1]

Wow, what a great video! Sometimes the KZbin algo suprises me. Now I need to see what else this channel has... I'm not really into RC anymore (have some cars and micro helis) but I was just thinking about getting back into it. It's funny, I used to use the Hobbyking Turnigy batteries and always had great luck with them, if I bought a pack yesterday it would have been a Turnigy, the timing couldn't be better!

[@TailHeavyProductions]

Thank you! We’re all about getting folks into or even back into the hobby. Hopefully you’ll get the itch after watching some more of our stuff. 👍

[@Wooskii1]

@@TailHeavyProductions That RV-8 is looking pretty nice, It must be nuts on 6S and I'm digging the night flight kit too.

[@oldmandoingstuff8997]

Thank you , very informative. I'm low end $$$ Old Man retired , buy 3,000 mah or less . Babying Lipos I've practiced 13 years. Good to see Ole Joe confirm

[@My2cents860]

Very informative. I started using SMC packs after watching other reviews. They actually have a lot of great information on there website. Since then I religiously keep my packs at a storage charge and it definitely makes a difference. On a side note I hope FMS sends you guy a Maule to review and I’m looking forward to see the Flex Innovations Twin Otter at the end of the summer. Looks super cool. Keep bouncing out the content! 👍🏻

[@tristanwilliams5756]

Kokam was always the most truthful. I was first in the country importing them. I've been telling people for years most numbers are non-sense. THP is wrong about C ratings in that since before Lipo's manufacturers of various chemistries have always given charge and discharge rates in C. It's a technical term even though it's been used by many as a deception.

[@heli-man-]

I have never stored my 3s lipo’s in storage mode yet some of my old gold flightline I think they were called lasted 5 years but I always slow charged them.

[@riskninja8194]

This is without a question the best RC industry video I have seen

[@Videolinquency]

That's what I have been suspecting for a long time, thank you for confirming it. And thanks for the storage temp warning. I wasn't aware of that.

[@jeffs7915]

When a modeler endorses any of his choices at best it's anecdotal which is fine to a point, where it crosses my line is when it becomes a form of product worship, where nothing is supported with data, it becomes mine (ours) is better than yours. It usually is covering ignorance. Certainly depends on application, flying style and care. But also manufacturers produce different qualities depending on their raw materials which does vary as well as production. Some batteries coming from the same run are different from other runs and there are differences within runs. I've had good luck with all the batteries I've bought, usually lower to middle priced. Used in helicopters 3D and pattern. What happened to Demon batteries?

[@NightFlyyer]

Nicely done. My vids only show how they explode! 😮 So this shows the technical side. Was hoping to see comments on Venom, which I have used for years. Happy flying, Zack.

[@glenn8891]

Hi Nightflyer. I built your heli test stand.

[@NightFlyyer]

@@glenn8891 Right on. Hope it helps you. Thanks.

[@motionsic]

Thanks for doing this video Zach! You bring tremendous value to every RC flyer by publishing informative videos like this.👏 Respect to Joe for his dedicated work to help fellow hobbyists! Great job!🫡

[@CloudyFlyerRowdyNiemira]

This is fact. Ive always been on the lookout for good high discharge packs for 3d helis. Ive had had new 30c packs smack much harder than other 60c+ brands that were more expensive and alot of times heavier. I love looking at a packs internal resistance. It speaks for itself. I appreciate you keeping it real, awesome video. 🚁💨💯

[@rc-fannl7364]

Internal resistance gives it away almost instantly, yeah.

[@gamersplaygroundliquidm3th526]

that's cause the 60c pack was a 20-30c with a 60c burst rating not constant. use the charger to test the rating for burst or sustained and then u know what the manufacturer likes to use for listed c value either charge/discharge/constant/sus/burst/max out of those choices when faced with 1 c value on the battery

[@GhostRyderFPV]

@ 6:02 That Dragonfly (Skipper) looks to be slightly nose heavy. As in, attached to the Earth via the nose. Can anyone tell me what in the world is happening here? Thanks for this information, reaffirming what I think we all know in the back of our minds (that we're being had), and quantifying the level of Fookery taking place.

[@Andrei5656]

Awesome video. When we talk about "storage", is it storage over night, for a few days, weeks? If I go flying every 2-3 days, do I need to keep batteries at storage charge in the meantime? Also, the gentleman talks about keeping the batteries a 40-60 degrees. Is this Fahrenheit or Celsius? Thank you.

[@D-Slowpass]

Yes storage charge is untill you use the pack again. 40 to 60 degrees is Fahrenheit as far as i know. I don't use Celsius. I got packs going on 8 years now

[@nfavor]

I have a 12S 1/5th scale truck which places heavy demands on the 7700Mah packs I use. I'm curious now about looking at SMC packs and seeing if the performance is even better.

[@VUO4E]

How do the the 232V at 9:10 fit in ?

[@carlosuribe7377]

Awesome..! Thanks for doing this..! Not more scams in our hobby

[@lon602]

I’ve been running and flying RC since NiCad days. Never had a problem with ThunderPower. My worst batteries have always been Hobby King’s.

[@TheMCSGuy]

Without defining your use profile and battery type your statement lacks context. I’ve literally tested hundreds of Thunder Power 6S 5000 and 6600 batteries starting in 2012. When I’ve discovered what appeared to be systemic issues I’ve gone to the extreme of purchasing 4 or more packs at substantial cost to verify my findings. It’s not that they don’t have products which work will in some applications. But I can conclusively prove in high power applications their 6S batteries are more over rated then most and have a fundamental flaw in cell matching balance between the 3rd and 4th cells.

[@Vaeloron]

LOL, I tell my friends at the field that C rating is a joke and they swear I don't know what I am talking about. About the only thing that I care about is that the wire gauge is correct for the expected amp draw.

[@BrainDeadEngineering]

Roaringtop lipos I have found to be the most legit number of any other brand I have used.

[@Rylan04]

I love my roaring tops!

[@BrainDeadEngineering]

@@Rylan04 Right on bro ! ONLY lipo i ever seen that has tinned metal cell connector strips ! the rest are aluminum. This is good because if you hurt cells, you can take batts apart and selvage cells and build another 😃

[@genjitsu7448]

Great video! I would like to see more clear data on different brands, there is so much bull crud out there. And the example in this video of the Hobby King battery going from top tier to junk... all while no one is the wiser... that is not cool. Anyway thanks for making this video, very good topic. Cheers

[@robc5296]

BTW - this was a wonderful video - Thanks to Joe and Tail Heavy !

[@ricknoah9184]

When I got into the hobby, about 7 years ago, there was very little accurate data on specific batteries. You bought what "sounded good" and went with it. If it under-performed, you'd usually switch brands until you found a brand that seemed consistent in quality. Wasted some money there. Yet, even with well rated brands, you can get a bad solder connection on a socket or plug, under the shrink wrap, of course. And with lithium on an unstable market, the prices go up... but the quality does not. The last time I checked my storage batteries, I have 42 from 2s to 6s. All are happy and are doing fine holding voltage. Yes, I bought the very best battery maintenance station. Can do everything with a LiPo pack. A station that can heavily analyze each cell and correctly discharge and balance the cells. You'll not be sorry buying the very best analyzer/charger. Then there are ESC's.... LOL... talking about issues....

[@ArthurRC]

God bless you bro 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 finally people will understand that brands lie about their C rates…..😕🙈

[@crispysocksss]

I took apart a puffed soft lipo pack and noticed that only the outter cells were puffed. Can i still rebuild the flat ones?

[@Stephen_The_Wiz]

This was very informative. Thank you Plus that is me at 9:51.

[@atincrab]

I appreciate what Joe does, but to say that it's our fault that companies mislable products is absolutely bananas. There are laws, (at least in the U.S.) that are meant to prevent deceptive claims by manufacturers. Blaming the consumer for an industry's failing just isn't justified. Of course, people should practice due diligence, but it wasn't me that decided that profit is more important than integrity.

[@TheMCSGuy]

It's why I do what I do, to give users the facts about the brands they can trust and those to avoid. The laws are only as effective as those willing and able to sue make them so. Look at the lowest ranked battery, and the performance numbers which have put it at the bottom. At $238 you tell me why that outfit is still in business and has users coming to their defense. IMO it's a borderline criminal conspiracy and the numbers prove their "120C" battery barely supports 15C use. Who's going to hold them accountable? I'm trying and (gladly) paying the majority of the cost to do so. It is the fault of those who continue to support this kind of company in the face of years of documented data they routinely engage in gross misrepresentation.

[@GBLynden]

Excellent video guys!

[@AL-RCjunkie]

Geez! Now, i feel like i have to start taking better care of my little 3s 300's, too. LiPo's are people, too! 😂 Not unlike most other aspects of life- With LiPo's, you get out of them what you put in 👍

[@TheMCSGuy]

I’ve done everything in my power to acquire SLS for testing. Regardless of my willingness to pay any shipping cost they will not allow shipping to the US.

[@chester82gtstang]

I follow proper battery charging, discharging, and storage techniques now but when I got started with RC I would fully charge the batteries and put them away. I had a 2S 5000mAH that I ran hard EVERY use and the dang thing lasted 9 years. Blew my mind.

[@kentonian]

Great video, even the editing is great. My only addition is that storing the battery between. 20-80% is the important thing. And never run the pack below 10%. Storing them full or empty a big no no.

[@solarsynapse]

Also it has been shown that charging them to 4.10V instead of 4.20V can increase the lifespan as much as 4 times. Assuming no over discharging or over rated current draw.

[@kiastingz9924]

This was a great explanation. What about the technology that Spektrum is using? Should I rely on its tech and not worry? Or should I assist its storage tech and temp regulation?

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

I suggest your run from all Spectrum equipment, overpriced and under performing.

[@dronepilot260rc]

Spektrum is not worth the money in my opinion. The cheaper stuff out performs it unless you care about useless telemetry that you don’t even use during the flight

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

@@dronepilot260rc frisky has been awesome for the last 10 years, zero rf hits, 16ch, telemetry all for dirt cheap. If I was to buy right now I would get the tx16s.

[@kiastingz9924]

@@dronepilot260rc It is certainly more expensive, but my question is, is the discharging and smart features really helping my battery compared to other batteries?

[@helidrones]

Although it is not a quality guarantee, i tend to look at the weight of a battery before buying. High discharge batteries tend to be significantly heavier.

[@claudiomueckay7251]

Thank you Joe! What a honest and useful review! Thanks 👍✈️

[@FLYANDI]

Is there a place where those stats are actually published?

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

rcgroups

[@TailHeavyProductions]

Video Description

[@RAW00815]

Best Guy - thanks for promoting his work!

[@DaveElectric]

They are not lies though. They are all peak C rates based on certain testing criteria: time duration, max temperature and max voltage sag. 2:27, 32C on a 5Ah battery is 160 amps. 1)There is no company claiming 32C continuous. 2)Standard wire gauges for wired battery modules are 10 AWG and 8 AWG. An 8 AWG cannot handle 160 amps continuous. Has nothing to do with quality of the cells.

[@786free1]

Thanks. Is there any way of checking the actual c rating on a lipo?

[@fullsendmarinedarwin7244]

First thing to come to mind is car audio amplifier companies doing fake power outputs, claiming 2000w when in reality it barely does 50w per ch 🤣

[@oldmandoingstuff8997]

We Appreciate you guys!! Very professional an Humor filled Content

[@travistracy6531]

This is great info to have. Thank you!

[@cinemoriahFPV]

Zee are some of the most underrated lipo.

[@donaldcarter1206]

I used to buy Max Amps batteries for my 5th scale Losi 5T. Data logging showed i was pulling 200+ amps and the "150c" batteries were not holding up. They never caught fire but boy they got hot and swollen, 2 split the heat shrink apart but then cooled down and shrunk back down. I think one set made it to 5 runs before dyeing.

[@fnkycoldmedina]

thanks for what you have done for us in the rc community .you sir are a legend

[@djSpinege]

i had a lot of respect for rotor geeks putting out a line of lipos back in the day called true C. they had the real c rating on them so i bought a whole bunch.

[@mithrandir1313]

GREAT INFORMATION!! Thanks!

[@iforce2d]

There were so many jump cuts in this video I actually had to look away for 90% of it to avoid flying into a rage. Otherwise quite interesting though.

[@kevinwest1607]

I bought some Reedy zapper shorty packs for my son's rc buggy replacing his zee brand shorty packs. He races in 17.5 expert buggy class. Without doubt the reedy packs have much more punch.

[@ah-64apache84]

Its probably the same with amp ratings on cheap escs (coming from a quadcopter guy, cheaping out several times on chinese 4 in 1 escs)

[@HarryHamsterChannel]

Amazing. This information isn't just scarce, it can even be suppressed. OF someone discusses power, and the term "Root Means Square" doesn't come up, ask why. Thank you.

[@kreech68]

ok- you have introduced me to to Joe - you and he are great !

[@stevenvater8720]

Very good video, not a fan of some of some of those batteries. The claimed C rating nowhere near that cliamed

[@Gene_the_OG_Raver]

Damn He has a CARF Spark in the background... wished i picked one up many years ago. They flew soo Good on a TJ-100 and a 1515-3D........

[@bwjones8903]

It’s “Porsche”, not “Porsche”……. ;) Love your videos. Thanks for the great content!

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

5:45 "calibrated or commonly used discharge rate",,,,, Are you still using constant resistance (and therefore the discharge rate drops as voltage goes down, like in the past)? Or have you switched over to the CC (constant current) prefered load now? (at 6:00 I see the current drop from 160A to 120A, that is 25% drop in load current. One thing missed is letting your charged batteries sit for days full charged, this eats into their life. I have the original 4s-1300-65c turnigy graphene (yes, there is no graphene in these batteries) from 2016, I use them in my quad, they discharge in 90 seconds with 120A peaks as I fly LOS. At 1200 cycles I relegate them to my airplanes and are now over 2200 cycles. The newest 4s-1400-75c Panthers have the lowest IR of many of my 1300/1400 packs (3.85 to 4.05mOhms), not sure what you are talking about that HK has dropped quality (are you talking about their 5000+ mAH packs?

[@TheMCSGuy]

Hi Ozzy, yes HK’s 5000-6000 fell out of the top 10 last year. I was sorry to see it. They seemed to rebound a bit this year but not much. The Bolt and Nano-Tech Plus appeared to be spared the performance axe but there was definitely a change in supplier or caliber on the others. I explored many ways to apply test loads up to the 350 amps suppliers claimed in 2012. I fell back on my working experience to stick with real world dynamics meaning we pilots lose current and voltage as we fly. It made sense to me to simulate that as opposed to a CC approach. I used calibrated resistance until 2021 then switched to a range of commercial EDF’s so I could capture thrust data. It has provided a whole other element of study as I’m finding pack wire gauge can impact thrust generation and at certain load thresholds real C presents an increase in thrust not tied to voltage increase. It’s fascinating to me but we don’t see it until 175 amp and above with some of the heavies.

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

@@TheMCSGuy thanks for the reply and additional info. Out of curiosity, how many life cycles do you or your friends get out of these large packs before they are retired? The reason I like CC is, it is easier to calculate capacity, and I don't fly my quad until the power is ~25% less than when I started, if I did it would be hurting the life cycles a bunch. One last thing on enhancing life cycles, I never let my fully charged batteries sit even a full day, if I charge the batteries the night before, I charge to 4.1v like you mentioned and this saves 12 hours sitting at 4.2v, and only costs me ~11% capacity.

[@TheMCSGuy]

@@user-rs8zg8ey2b Life cycles are extremely subjective to a pilot's use and care. I imagine there are lipo's bad enough no matter how much they're babied they won't last "long" (which is also subjective) but I haven't come across them. What I have come across are packs that get hotter then others under the same watt-min of use and others which seem to burn through Lithium at a lower temperature. Excessive temperature costs cycles but there is no sudden death short of puffing or crash damage. I have a set of old beater nano-techs I use on a 45A precision aerobatics feather weight going on 7 years and they do everything I want in that plane. I'll use them until they don't. In my 200 mph Spark's I notice the best high performance packs available start to have more difficulty breaking that 200 mph barrier after about 20-30 cycles depending on how hard (temperature wise) I've pushed them. That's when I roll them over even though I could easily get another 100 cycles or more operating at 180-190mph. I don't fly the Spark's to get bored, I fly them to make my knees tremble so afaic I'm done with the packs when they won't do everything I want in that plane. My friends probably think I'm strange but if I wasn't a bit weird the world would have a lot less test data available ;-) Buying a lipo's not like buying a liter of fuel which is delivered to a chemical reaction taking place within an engine or turbine. We are buying the chemical reaction itself which begins when we apply a load. In the field of process control this makes "mAh" a process variable meaning it's value is defined by the influence of the other components within the reaction. Cells are rated at the factory based on a 1C discharge rate at who knows what temperature. The rate of discharge and the batteries real C effects the mAh "consumed" before we hit 3.5v/cell or whatever we consider done. CC only exists in a world of constant voltage and fixed loads so it's not a part of my testing regimen.

[@mtbeyker9404]

That is why I bought some cheap 3s 4200 packs for around 100 PLN (24,88 USD) the best batteries I've ever had. I still have some of gens ace lipos and they are completely dead even when they are not bulged or something.

[@freddan6fly]

Real C rating is measurable. The C rating on the pack is not an indication on how good a battery is. I got some old packs where C_market is lower than C_measured. But I got a hell of a lot of newer batteries where it is the opposite.

[@DigBipper188]

An easier number to crank up would be the cell's usable or peak amperage If we take a 50C 5000mAH LiPo, what sounds bigger? 50C or 250A both are technically accurate numbers if the cells can take that kind of abuse, but if bigger is better, then labelling the battery as "250A" would likely sell more.

[@Saldogg1]

Wow!!! Thanks man ....Maxx Aps....Wow the price tag keep me away from them but this video blow my mind