Taiwan's 1st Submarine, What Other Videos Do Not Tell You

[@gaius_enceladus]

Goooo Taiwan! Congrats on your first locally-built submarine! Cheers from New Zealand!

[@greatsky8226]

It seems like a submarine, but there is no evidence that is a real one.

[@vampyreGisel]

Yay 🇳🇿🇳🇿🇳🇿

[@mikslids7083]

Taiwan's first nearly 3,000-ton self-made submarine "Narwhal" has just been built and is undergoing testing. Taiwan's first AI unmanned attack submarine "Huilong" will also be launched by the end of this year. While Taiwan is building manned submarines, it is also secretly using submarine development technology to produce unmanned submarines. The self-made "Huilong" (meaning: Intelligent Dragon) unmanned submarine is a smaller version of the submarine, with specifications of 30 meters long, 6 meters high and 3.6 meters wide. It adopts a double-shell design (the length of the inner pressure shell is 20 meters). Its height including the sail cover is 6 meters, and the outer shell is also coated with black sound-absorbing coating. In addition, the internal settings are not only equipped with cruise, sonar detection and other systems, but more importantly, it also adds a life support system (for special forces missions) and a system equipped with two torpedo launch tubes. This is almost the basic configuration of a 100-ton small submarine. It uses a hull similar to a manned submarine with a sail-type structure design, and is also equipped with two torpedo launch tubes. The "Huilong" unmanned submarine can launch small unmanned AI boats, torpedoes, mines and underwater loitering munitions to monitor, lock on and loiter attacks on enemy targets. The hull of the "Huilong" unmanned submarine is made of alloy steel produced by Taiwan Steel and can withstand seawater pressure of 1,000 meters. It allows the "Huilong" unmanned submarine to stay at a depth of nearly 900 meters underwater. Not only will it not be detected, but it will also be unable to be attacked by mines or torpedoes. The "Huilong" unmanned submarine can perform combat missions alone, or it can accompany the submarine as a wing boat for coordinated operations. Taiwanese civilian manufacturer has developed an Autonomous Underwater Vehicle (AUV) for the Navy - the Seawolf 400 AUV system. The Seawolf 400 AUV is 4 meters long, weighs about 1,000 kilograms, has a speed of 2 to 7 knots, can submerge for 8 to 10 hours, and can carry AI reconnaissance equipment and attack weapons. Taiwan's Navy has partnered with an innovative company to develop an underwater glider. This equipment has the characteristics of long-term operation, large-scale collection of underwater information, high concealment, low maintenance and operation costs, fast maneuverability, and diversified underwater reconnaissance. It can collect hydrographic information for the Navy and influence the selection of sonar modes and the application of tactics. In addition, the equipment also has stealth characteristics and can perform underwater missions for more than one month, improving the Navy's ability to deal with underwater operations and intelligence collection. Several underwater gliders are currently being deployed to perform missions. Taiwan plans to produce eight Submarines, 46 AI Unmanned Submarines, hundreds of Seawolf 400 AUVs, and a fleet of Underwater Gliders. Based on this, the Taiwan Navy has been able to build a powerful, modern underwater fleet with AI networked combat capabilities.

[@jiizjard8791]

​@@greatsky8226Are you sure ?

[@VeryFunnyHere]

@@greatsky8226 Bark louder, and you'll get released on parole earlier. 🤣

[@pieterveenders9793]

As mentioned, in the 80's Taiwan bought 2 Zwaardvis-class submarines from the Netherlands. When Taiwan wanted a follow up purchase of 2 more Dutch submarines, the Netherlands (under heavy pressure from the PRC) sadly refused. However the Dutch government has always been closely intertwined with that of Taiwan in many ways, and although they couldn't be seen exporting finished submarines to Taiwan, it's very likely they okey'd the Dutch naval industry to send Taiwan the blueprints of the Zwaardvis-class and maybe even newer technical data such as part or all of the Walrus-class.

[@JHJH-se3pe]

Gekoloniseerd

[@picardtseng]

This is not how things developed. What ROC(Taiwan) Navy has are partial blueprints of the two Hai Lung class (improved Zwaardvis) for maintenance, but fall short for constructing another. During the process of accessing possible technologies assist in the early stage of IDS, they had no way to acquire the full blueprints of Hai Lung, owned by Dutch government. Getting end user certificate (EUC) is impossible, because the official(governmental) contacts were turned down by Dutch. Dutch even watched Taiwan closely ,keeping them from breaching intellectual properties and copied the design without authorization. In the end, Taiwan did heavily referenced the pressure hull design of Hai Lung, but not direct copy; all pipes and wires had to be re-arranged since the gears on boards are different, necessary changed were done in pressure hull to avoid the possible accuse from Dutch. As to outer none-pressure hull/sail and rudders, are brand new designs.

[@johnd2058]

Given that the Netherlands has joined in Biden's chip export ban against Xi, things seem to be shifting in that direction.

[@ramieskola7845]

Yes. Yes they are. They built the sub. They had to figure out much of the tech by themselves. How long did it take for other countries to develop subs? How many went to bottom in the process? If I had to build a sub I would by and steal as much of the R&D knowledge as possible. It would be super charged stupidity to re-create existing knowledge with massive expenses if it can be bought cheaper and faster.

[@johnd2058]

@@ramieskola7845--some of the tech, like our host's video says, it's an update of a foreign design they operated before, and likely with tech transfer. Taiwan is only now waking up to Xi's belligerency and desperation, so they're playing catch-up to the sad reality of Beijing and Moscow's slide into 19th-century levels of geopolitical development.

[@tiitsaul9036]

Your channel has gained some attention lately. Congratulations. Youre doing great work.

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

Thank you very much!

[@petervitale4431]

They did rush this first version of the Hai-Kun. The first was supposed to be delivered in 2025, but they decided to speed the production of this first one. I hope it proves to be a good platform for them to test out what they had built, and to improve on building techniques and systems integration for the other 7 subs they plan to make.

[@FieryCheeze]

Given the events of the past year and increased West Taiwanese aggression, makes sense to have an imperfect boat ready to go before the earliest opening of the ballroom. IIRC, 2025 was when Winnie the Pooh wants to be ready to invade. Perhaps they can crank out a second hull before then.

[@williammiao8862]

Election is just a couple months away, I will not be surprised that a lot of corners are cut under the pressure of “party interest”

[@stevenford6107]

They are still scheduled to delivered in 2025. This is just the launch ceremony

[@colonthree]

They might rush but will they also stockton...?

[@taorente7438]

It took China and South Korea 20 to 30 years to build their first submarines. It only took Taiwan 7 years to build its first domestically produced submarine. This shows Taiwan's overall industrial strength. It took only two years for Taiwan Shipbuilding Industry Corporation to build a factory capable of producing three submarines at the same time. It took only two years for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop steel materials for submarines that are resistant to water pressure and explosions, as well as high-class steel material for unmanned submarines. It only took one year for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop ultra-thin electromagnetic steel sheets for UAV power motors that are better than those used by foreign countries, making Taiwan’s domestic UAV power motors 100% made in Taiwan, and yet giviving it a strong competitiveness in the international market. It only took one and half years for Taiwan to expand its missiles factory production line for large-scale mass production of missiles, and released component technology to Taiwan civil supply chain factories, enabling Taiwan's domestic missile production capacity to reach 5000 pieces annually in 2025. The research institute of Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense has released the technology of military drones to Taiwan civil factories of supply chain, to support and cutivate Taiwan civilian drone industry, for them to support the large-scale production of military drones in case of the wartime. The high-tech component manufacturing industry is the core of Taiwan's manufacturing industry. The government budget should take the lead in promoting the manufacturing project of integrating military systems, such as submarines. Its current self-made rate has reached 40%, and its orders of 8 to 10 submarines will be released to civil manufacturers. Naturally, the civil manufacturers of supply chain will do reverse engineering to manufacture components to replace imported products. Taiwan's machine tool industry will cooperate in the development and production of related precision machining machinery and tools to support that. Finally, domestic submarines will eventually achieve a self-made rate of 80% to 90%, making the domestic submarines significant cost reduction. The design and technology of domestically produced submarines have originally adopted the standards of the United States, Britain and Europe. The quality and price of domestically produced parts and components of submarine's will have strong competitiveness in the international market. Taiwan will become the supply chain of the international submarine market.

[@edsutherland8266]

I think it’s a good start, and arguably the logical path for Taiwan. Once you’ve got the basics worked out, adding either AIP or lithium batteries, anechoic tiles etc is the next step. The same with the weapons options, developing advanced sub launched weapons, when your sub fleet is so limited, is a lower priority. Arguably adding a cruise missile capability would be more important than adding anti-ship missiles in the near term.

[@samuel5916]

A small nation couldn’t afford an R@D program for a cutting-edge weapon system that was competitive or cost-effective anyway. Really they just need to wait on the US LRASM to get sub-launched variants.

[@ShortArmOfGod]

The threat to Taiwan is from the sea primarily. Anti ship missiles that can be fired from stealth seem far more important than cruise missiles against a contry as large and militarily spread out as China.

[@jackmiller8851]

the mk48 mod6 is a fantastic weapon, theyd be better off just continuing to buy those instead of developing one domestically

[@user-qf6yt3id3w]

Exactly. Also once you have an indigenous submarine buying or reverse engineering things like AIP, lithium ion batteries, anechoic tiles or better anti ship missiles and installing them is an incremental process. Importing a submarine with all those things is impossible. And Taiwan does make decent cruise, anti aircraft and anti ship missiles already. They're really good at them, even though they're novices at sub construction. It seems plausible Taiwan could do a tech transfer with Japan for AIP and/or Lithium ion batteries based on the time honoured technique of a Taiwanese 'businessman' meeting a Japanese 'businessman' at an excellent Yakiniku restaurant and swapping a briefcase full of money for an identical briefcase with a pre agreed technology transfer package.

[@edsutherland8266]

@@ShortArmOfGodIt is, but realistically the best weapons for sinking them are the supersonic AShMs carried on surface ships, shore batteries and from aircraft. Add to that mines and potentially torpedoes launched from AUVs. A sub-Harpoon is not likely to be a game changer. In contrast, a sub launched cruise missile, if aimed at a suitable target, can be. Obviously without any nuclear capability, they lack Israel’s ‘second strike’ ability, but they’re still useful.

[@gherkinisgreat]

Thanks for covering smaller subjects like this, it's fascinating to see these smaller navies like this

[@mikslids7083]

Taiwan's first nearly 3,000-ton self-made submarine "Narwhal" has just been built and is undergoing testing. Taiwan's first AI unmanned attack submarine "Huilong" will also be launched by the end of this year. While Taiwan is building manned submarines, it is also secretly using submarine development technology to produce unmanned submarines. The self-made "Huilong" (meaning: Intelligent Dragon) unmanned submarine is a smaller version of the submarine, with specifications of 30 meters long, 6 meters high and 3.6 meters wide. It adopts a double-shell design (the length of the inner pressure shell is 20 meters). Its height including the sail cover is 6 meters, and the outer shell is also coated with black sound-absorbing coating. In addition, the internal settings are not only equipped with cruise, sonar detection and other systems, but more importantly, it also adds a life support system (for special forces missions) and a system equipped with two torpedo launch tubes. This is almost the basic configuration of a 100-ton small submarine. It uses a hull similar to a manned submarine with a sail-type structure design, and is also equipped with two torpedo launch tubes. The "Huilong" unmanned submarine can launch small unmanned AI boats, torpedoes, mines and underwater loitering munitions to monitor, lock on and loiter attacks on enemy targets. The hull of the "Huilong" unmanned submarine is made of alloy steel produced by Taiwan Steel and can withstand seawater pressure of 1,000 meters. It allows the "Huilong" unmanned submarine to stay at a depth of nearly 900 meters underwater. Not only will it not be detected, but it will also be unable to be attacked by mines or torpedoes. The "Huilong" unmanned submarine can perform combat missions alone, or it can accompany the submarine as a wing boat for coordinated operations. Taiwanese civilian manufacturer has developed an Autonomous Underwater Vehicle (AUV) for the Navy - the Seawolf 400 AUV system. The Seawolf 400 AUV is 4 meters long, weighs about 1,000 kilograms, has a speed of 2 to 7 knots, can submerge for 8 to 10 hours, and can carry AI reconnaissance equipment and attack weapons. Taiwan's Navy has partnered with an innovative company to develop an underwater glider. This equipment has the characteristics of long-term operation, large-scale collection of underwater information, high concealment, low maintenance and operation costs, fast maneuverability, and diversified underwater reconnaissance. It can collect hydrographic information for the Navy and influence the selection of sonar modes and the application of tactics. In addition, the equipment also has stealth characteristics and can perform underwater missions for more than one month, improving the Navy's ability to deal with underwater operations and intelligence collection. Several underwater gliders are currently being deployed to perform missions. Taiwan plans to produce eight Submarines, 46 AI Unmanned Submarines, hundreds of Seawolf 400 AUVs, and a fleet of Underwater Gliders. Based on this, the Taiwan Navy has been able to build a powerful, modern underwater fleet with AI networked combat capabilities.

[@taorente7438]

Taiwan has successfully developed a 533mm-diameter torpedo launch system for Taiwan-made IDS submarine Narwhal. In addition to being used to launch US-made MK-48 heavy torpedoes, the system is also being prepared to launch Taiwanese-made submarine-launched Hsiung Feng II anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Feng III supersonic anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Sheng cruise missiles, and submarine-launched Sky Sword II air defense missiles. The diameters of these Taiwanese missiles, after being modified and installed in submarine-launched pods, are all smaller than 533mm torpedo launch tubes, and the IDS submarines can all launch them in the future. During launch, the torpedo tube will push the Taiwanese missile pod into the sea. After traveling a certain distance and approaching the surface, the missile engine will ignite, break out of the pod, and emerge from the water. After the guidance system is activated, the missile will fly into the sky and autonomously attack the target.

[@ibbylancaster8981]

As a fabricator and pipe welder, I have known a few guys over the years that had worked in the shipyard that built subs. They spoke of the complexity of a sub. They did a pretty good job in a short time. Better than nothing, I guess 😉

[@林君學-g6k]

7 countries help Taiwan build submarines😂

[@taorente7438]

It took China and South Korea 20 to 30 years to build their first submarines. It only took Taiwan 7 years to build its first domestically produced submarine. This shows Taiwan's overall industrial strength. It took only two years for Taiwan Shipbuilding Industry Corporation to build a factory capable of producing three submarines at the same time. It took only two years for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop steel materials for submarines that are resistant to water pressure and explosions, as well as high-class steel material for unmanned submarines. It only took one year for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop ultra-thin electromagnetic steel sheets for UAV power motors that are better than those used by foreign countries, making Taiwan’s domestic UAV power motors 100% made in Taiwan, and yet giviving it a strong competitiveness in the international market. It only took one and half years for Taiwan to expand its missiles factory production line for large-scale mass production of missiles, and released component technology to Taiwan civil supply chain factories, enabling Taiwan's domestic missile production capacity to reach 5000 pieces annually in 2025. The research institute of Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense has released the technology of military drones to Taiwan civil factories of supply chain, to support and cutivate Taiwan civilian drone industry, for them to support the large-scale production of military drones in case of the wartime. The high-tech component manufacturing industry is the core of Taiwan's manufacturing industry. The government budget should take the lead in promoting the manufacturing project of integrating military systems, such as submarines. Its current self-made rate has reached 40%, and its orders of 8 to 10 submarines will be released to civil manufacturers. Naturally, the civil manufacturers of supply chain will do reverse engineering to manufacture components to replace imported products. Taiwan's machine tool industry will cooperate in the development and production of related precision machining machinery and tools to support that. Finally, domestic submarines will eventually achieve a self-made rate of 80% to 90%, making the domestic submarines significant cost reduction. The design and technology of domestically produced submarines have originally adopted the standards of the United States, Britain and Europe. The quality and price of domestically produced parts and components of submarine's will have strong competitiveness in the international market. Taiwan will become the supply chain of the international submarine market.

[@mikslids7083]

Taiwan's first nearly 3,000-ton self-made submarine "Narwhal" has just been built and is undergoing testing. Taiwan's first AI unmanned attack submarine "Huilong" will also be launched by the end of this year. While Taiwan is building manned submarines, it is also secretly using submarine development technology to produce unmanned submarines. The self-made "Huilong" unmanned submarine is a smaller version of the submarine, with specifications of 30 meters long, 6 meters high and 3.6 meters wide. It adopts a double-shell design (the length of the inner pressure shell is 20 meters). Its height including the sail cover is 6 meters, and the outer shell is also coated with black sound-absorbing coating. In addition, the internal settings are not only equipped with cruise, sonar detection and other systems, but more importantly, it also adds a life support system (for special forces missions) and a system equipped with two torpedo launch tubes. This is almost the basic configuration of a 100-ton small submarine. It uses a hull similar to a manned submarine with a sail-type structure design, and is also equipped with two torpedo launch tubes. The "Huilong" unmanned submarine can launch small unmanned AI boats, torpedoes, mines and underwater loitering munitions to monitor, lock on and loiter attacks on enemy targets. The hull of the "Huilong" unmanned submarine is made of alloy steel produced by Taiwan Steel and can withstand seawater pressure of 1,000 meters. It allows the "Huilong" unmanned submarine to stay at a depth of nearly 900 meters underwater. Not only will it not be detected, but it will also be unable to be attacked by mines or torpedoes. The "Huilong" unmanned submarine can perform combat missions alone, or it can accompany the submarine as a wing boat for coordinated operations. Taiwanese civilian manufacturer has developed an Autonomous Underwater Vehicle (AUV) for the Navy - the Seawolf 400 AUV system. The Seawolf 400 AUV is 4 meters long, weighs about 1,000 kilograms, has a speed of 2 to 7 knots, can submerge for 8 to 10 hours, and can carry AI reconnaissance equipment and attack weapons. Taiwan's Navy has partnered with an innovative company to develop an underwater glider. This equipment has the characteristics of long-term operation, large-scale collection of underwater information, high concealment, low maintenance and operation costs, fast maneuverability, and diversified underwater reconnaissance. It can collect hydrographic information for the Navy and influence the selection of sonar modes and the application of tactics. In addition, the equipment also has stealth characteristics and can perform underwater missions for more than one month, improving the Navy's ability to deal with underwater operations and intelligence collection. Several underwater gliders are currently being deployed to perform missions. Taiwan plans to produce eight Submarines, 46 AI Unmanned Submarines, hundreds of Seawolf 400 AUVs, and a fleet of Underwater Gliders. Based on this, the Taiwan Navy has been able to build a powerful, modern underwater fleet with AI networked combat capabilities.

[@stkeoff9518]

@@taorente7438 废文

[@taorente7438]

Taiwan took 4 years to learn and design its self-made submarine, and only took 3 years to complete its self-made modern submarine. Taiwan break the world record for manufacturing the submarine. In 1988 Taiwan was the 1st Asian country who could design and manufacture self-made 3rd generation Jet Fighter. Taiwan is also designing its own fifth-generation stealth twin-engine fighter jet, and the prototype will be produced in 2025. Taiwan is not only strong in semiconductor chip manufacturing technology, but also in other industries. Bravo Taiwan!

[@truckerallikatuk]

Outside the facetted outer hull, the Taiwanese boat seems perfect for their needs. They don't need the extended range for local defence, but some improved anti-detection (like anechoic coatings etc) would be useful.

[@heuhen]

After what I understand is that the class is going to have anechoic tills. The first version didn't get it, due to they want to build it's as fast as possible, so they can test the submarine and it's systems, before building the rest. It is after all the first home build submarine for Taiwan.

[@astroboy2345]

I image the production boats will have anechoic coating. The Taiwanese are being extremely careful on hiding as much as possible for the possibility that pressure from Communist China would put pressure and choke off supply chain from key foreign suppliers.

[@picardtseng]

anechoic tiles should be added on the follow-on hulls, if things going well.

[@guaposneeze]

Any military development project that manages to stay pretty much on schedule, pretty much on budget, and deliver working hardware with a few well chosen nice features (Like the X instead of + propulsor) is a pretty resounding success. If the US tried to build a diesel boat, we'd probably wind up spending 20 years and a hundred billion dollars trying to make a diesel submarine that can also fly. Taiwan can iterate on the solid design with the next boat, rather than spending forever trying to "boil the sea" and doing everything as step 1.

[@taorente7438]

It took China and South Korea 20 to 30 years to build their first submarines. It only took Taiwan 7 years to build its first domestically produced submarine. This shows Taiwan's overall industrial strength. It took only two years for Taiwan Shipbuilding Industry Corporation to build a factory capable of producing three submarines at the same time. It took only two years for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop steel materials for submarines that are resistant to water pressure and explosions, as well as high-class steel material for unmanned submarines. It only took one year for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop ultra-thin electromagnetic steel sheets for UAV power motors that are better than those used by foreign countries, making Taiwan’s domestic UAV power motors 100% made in Taiwan, and yet giviving it a strong competitiveness in the international market. It only took one and half years for Taiwan to expand its missiles factory production line for large-scale mass production of missiles, and released component technology to Taiwan civil supply chain factories, enabling Taiwan's domestic missile production capacity to reach 5000 pieces annually in 2025. The research institute of Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense has released the technology of military drones to Taiwan civil factories of supply chain, to support and cutivate Taiwan civilian drone industry, for them to support the large-scale production of military drones in case of the wartime. The high-tech component manufacturing industry is the core of Taiwan's manufacturing industry. The government budget should take the lead in promoting the manufacturing project of integrating military systems, such as submarines. Its current self-made rate has reached 40%, and its orders of 8 to 10 submarines will be released to civil manufacturers. Naturally, the civil manufacturers of supply chain will do reverse engineering to manufacture components to replace imported products. Taiwan's machine tool industry will cooperate in the development and production of related precision machining machinery and tools to support that. Finally, domestic submarines will eventually achieve a self-made rate of 80% to 90%, making the domestic submarines significant cost reduction. The design and technology of domestically produced submarines have originally adopted the standards of the United States, Britain and Europe. The quality and price of domestically produced parts and components of submarine's will have strong competitiveness in the international market. Taiwan will become the supply chain of the international submarine market.

[@sekchijamexz9539]

According to Taiwanese media reports, Hai Kun doesn't have sub-launched AShM yet. Maybe it will have that or more capabilities until the expected delivery time by the end of next year. Above all, this boat is both the first domestically developed sub and meant to serve as the prototype for follow-on boats.

[@sekchijamexz9539]

Also according to Taiwanese media reports, Huilong is intended to be a testbed for CSIST's new systems for the ongoing and future sub programs.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

ASM capability gives you a lot of options, especially when you’re new to the submarine business & don’t have a lot of experience playing cat & mouse. When it comes to sub-launched ASMs I actually tend to favor the Russian approach. A cruise missile sub launching something like a Mach 3 Sizzler outside the enemies’ ASW envelope will get there before anyone has time to react. Surface ships don’t like to radiate when they’re not expecting visitors. This gives the advantage to the submarine for the opening salvos.

[@taorente7438]

It took China and South Korea 20 to 30 years to build their first submarines. It only took Taiwan 7 years to build its first domestically produced submarine. This shows Taiwan's overall industrial strength. It took only two years for Taiwan Shipbuilding Industry Corporation to build a factory capable of producing three submarines at the same time. It took only two years for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop steel materials for submarines that are resistant to water pressure and explosions, as well as high-class steel material for unmanned submarines. It only took one year for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop ultra-thin electromagnetic steel sheets for UAV power motors that are better than those used by foreign countries, making Taiwan’s domestic UAV power motors 100% made in Taiwan, and yet giviving it a strong competitiveness in the international market. It only took one and half years for Taiwan to expand its missiles factory production line for large-scale mass production of missiles, and released component technology to Taiwan civil supply chain factories, enabling Taiwan's domestic missile production capacity to reach 5000 pieces annually in 2025. The research institute of Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense has released the technology of military drones to Taiwan civil factories of supply chain, to support and cutivate Taiwan civilian drone industry, for them to support the large-scale production of military drones in case of the wartime. The high-tech component manufacturing industry is the core of Taiwan's manufacturing industry. The government budget should take the lead in promoting the manufacturing project of integrating military systems, such as submarines. Its current self-made rate has reached 40%, and its orders of 8 to 10 submarines will be released to civil manufacturers. Naturally, the civil manufacturers of supply chain will do reverse engineering to manufacture components to replace imported products. Taiwan's machine tool industry will cooperate in the development and production of related precision machining machinery and tools to support that. Finally, domestic submarines will eventually achieve a self-made rate of 80% to 90%, making the domestic submarines significant cost reduction. The design and technology of domestically produced submarines have originally adopted the standards of the United States, Britain and Europe. The quality and price of domestically produced parts and components of submarine's will have strong competitiveness in the international market. Taiwan will become the supply chain of the international submarine market.

[@taorente7438]

Taiwan has successfully developed a 533mm-diameter torpedo launch system for Taiwan-made IDS submarine Narwhal. In addition to being used to launch US-made MK-48 heavy torpedoes, the system is also being prepared to launch Taiwanese-made submarine-launched Hsiung Feng II anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Feng III supersonic anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Sheng cruise missiles, and submarine-launched Sky Sword II air defense missiles. The diameters of these Taiwanese missiles, after being modified and installed in submarine-launched pods, are all smaller than 533mm torpedo launch tubes, and the IDS submarines can all launch them in the future. During launch, the torpedo tube will push the Taiwanese missile pod into the sea. After traveling a certain distance and approaching the surface, the missile engine will ignite, break out of the pod, and emerge from the water. After the guidance system is activated, the missile will fly into the sky and autonomously attack the target.

[@adx24921094]

非常感謝各國專家協助完成潛艦的建造，台灣會繼續堅持民主自由人權，在西太平洋維護世界和平。 Very thanks to all countries which support and help the submarine, Taiwan will stand for democracy, freedom, human right in west Pacific, keeping world peace.

[@Zhen-Lin-CHN]

🐶👈

[@Cecil97]

​@@Zhen-Lin-CHN🤡💩🤡

[@happykiwi]

@@Zhen-Lin-CHNbetween china and Taiwan, Taiwan is the better country

[@Zhen-Lin-CHN]

@@happykiwi Yea yea.... Taiwan none bird one

[@treystephens6166]

🇺🇸 🇹🇼

[@relwalretep]

Yay! Was only thinking yesterday how I was hoping you'd publish again soon. Thanks mate!

[@Frazec_Atsjenkov]

I remember that the Netherlands also has a rich history regarding submarines in relation to Taiwan. Back in the early eighties, the Taiwanese government ordered two modified Zwaardvis-class submarines, these were also delivered. In 1993 a repeat order for the same submarine class was canceled due to political pressure from the Chinese mainland. I recall that there was a similar event in regard to the more modern Walrus-class submarine sometime later. And I even remember something about a custom-built submarine. In my memory, every 10 years or so this topic tends to come up in my country. But since the nineties, the economic ties to the Chinese mainland have been deemed too important to antagonize Beijing.

[@nos9784]

I wonder how hard it is to sell/buy a submarine under the table. It would certainly have to be a big table, and of course you would need a cover story where your -shiny- matte new submarine came from. I guess having your own production makes it easier to hide any foreign contributions.

[@Frazec_Atsjenkov]

@@nos9784 Good point. Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that is what happened. Not literally of course, but perhaps some consultations on the side, or some designs being shared without anyone knowing. There are plenty of historical examples of that kind of thing.

[@Joseph-eh4rs]

​@@Frazec_AtsjenkovNope, this sub was all designed and built in Taiwan. It was open secret Taiwan recruited and hired foreign sub designers and engineers. I'm sure USA, Japan, European nations unofficially assistanted.

[@Frazec_Atsjenkov]

@@Joseph-eh4rs I get the feeling we are kinda saying the same thing. Unless I expressed myself very poorly.

[@astroboy2345]

Essentially this describes the predicament that Taiwan was in for the past 70 years. I seem to remember the additional Taiwanese sub order was going to save the shipyard that built the Zwaardvis class sub. But at the time, the Dutch government rather for its own shipyard to go under then to upset the Chinese Communists.

[@jermainerace4156]

4:00 ..if you've been around commercial and naval ships much you'll know that superficial sheet metal like this is often shows a lot of "oil canning". It's not a problem because it's really just there reduce resistance to motion, to create a space for the ballast tanks (which are open to the sea on the bottom) and the barest modicum of protection for masts, valves, air inlets, and when surfaced, the lookouts and navigation team.

[@npc2153]

U.S wants Taiwan and Japan to join in the joint sea exercises. Taiwans gonna need some boats.

[@montys420-]

If these subs are able to threaten China's amphibious LHA and LHD ships then they've probably saved their island.

[@eliasmai6170]

now they need to have their own nukes

[@The_New_IKB]

​@@eliasmai6170they might already have them!?

[@pieterveenders9793]

@@The_New_IKB No, the US (per usual) interfered. Taiwan had a very advanced secret nuclear programme up until the 90's, by which time they were only months away from finishing a bomb, when the US found out and pressured Taiwan to drop the programme. Considering how dependent Taiwan is on the US for military assistance and sales, they went along with the requests. That's not to say that they couldn't quickly restart the program in the future if needed be.

[@LeonardTavast]

Taiwan should build 10+ of these to deter any attempt of a mass amphibious landing.

[@otm646]

These subs simply don't possess enough munitions to do that, they're going after the handful of fleet command vessels.

[@_Alfa.Bravo_]

Taiwan had no choice. No nation in the west had the balls to sell them submarines. Shame on them: Sweden, Spain, France, Germany, Japan and South Korea !!!

[@sumandutta4834]

Naval engineers, experts, sailors, and private/public sector companies from US, UK, Japan, Israel, India, South Korea, Australia, Spain, Canada were involved through backdoor. There might be more countries. I think it was Reuters who disclosed this information through their investigative journalism.

[@mikslids7083]

Taiwan's first nearly 3,000-ton self-made submarine "Narwhal" has just been built and is undergoing testing. Taiwan's first AI unmanned attack submarine "Huilong" will also be launched by the end of this year. While Taiwan is building manned submarines, it is also secretly using submarine development technology to produce unmanned submarines. The self-made "Huilong" unmanned submarine is a smaller version of the submarine, with specifications of 30 meters long, 6 meters high and 3.6 meters wide. It adopts a double-shell design (the length of the inner pressure shell is 20 meters). Its height including the sail cover is 6 meters, and the outer shell is also coated with black sound-absorbing coating. In addition, the internal settings are not only equipped with cruise, sonar detection and other systems, but more importantly, it also adds a life support system (for special forces missions) and a system equipped with two torpedo launch tubes. This is almost the basic configuration of a 100-ton small submarine. It uses a hull similar to a manned submarine with a sail-type structure design, and is also equipped with two torpedo launch tubes. The "Huilong" unmanned submarine can launch small unmanned AI boats, torpedoes, mines and underwater loitering munitions to monitor, lock on and loiter attacks on enemy targets. The hull of the "Huilong" unmanned submarine is made of alloy steel produced by Taiwan Steel and can withstand seawater pressure of 1,000 meters. It allows the "Huilong" unmanned submarine to stay at a depth of nearly 900 meters underwater. Not only will it not be detected, but it will also be unable to be attacked by mines or torpedoes. The "Huilong" unmanned submarine can perform combat missions alone, or it can accompany the submarine as a wing boat for coordinated operations. Taiwanese civilian manufacturer has developed an Autonomous Underwater Vehicle (AUV) for the Navy - the Seawolf 400 AUV system. The Seawolf 400 AUV is 4 meters long, weighs about 1,000 kilograms, has a speed of 2 to 7 knots, can submerge for 8 to 10 hours, and can carry AI reconnaissance equipment and attack weapons. Taiwan's Navy has partnered with an innovative company to develop an underwater glider. This equipment has the characteristics of long-term operation, large-scale collection of underwater information, high concealment, low maintenance and operation costs, fast maneuverability, and diversified underwater reconnaissance. It can collect hydrographic information for the Navy and influence the selection of sonar modes and the application of tactics. In addition, the equipment also has stealth characteristics and can perform underwater missions for more than one month, improving the Navy's ability to deal with underwater operations and intelligence collection. Several underwater gliders are currently being deployed to perform missions. Taiwan plans to produce eight Submarines, 46 AI Unmanned Submarines, hundreds of Seawolf 400 AUVs, and a fleet of Underwater Gliders. Based on this, the Taiwan Navy has been able to build a powerful, modern underwater fleet with AI networked combat capabilities.

[@서부_전선]

As I recall, at some point before the launch of this submarine, two Korean men were charged with leaking classified domestic submarine propeller designs to Taiwan, under the guise of them being wind turbine blades. I wouldn't be surprised if those designs turn up in the Hai Kun class.

[@mix3ry199]

They are showing that they can do it themselves, which is a deterrent tactic and also shows that others should take them seriously. Secondly, just like the FCK1, thanks to this plane Taiwan was able to buy the F16, which they were denied before because the US would have given them an upgrade over their F5 Tiger or F104, the US said something like "we'll help, but we won't upgrade them". This is also the reason why Taiwan won't get an F35 until they develop their own 5th generation fighter or similar.

[@dy031101]

Most people when talking about Taiwan have done so under the premise that Western support for Taiwan is both always available and unconditional, when what actually happened in practice especially since "Sino"-Soviet Split is that Western support for Taiwan has been (especially where it involves European countries) under the table and contingent on the attitude of Red China, who has to do something very out of line such as shooting up a student protest for Taiwan to get full support from the West, and even then such full support tended to last only until Red China lightened up again. And we haven't taken into account sudden changes in geopolitics and American strategic vision for Taiwan...... neither of which is too great at this moment thanks to Russo-Ukraine War and the current occupant of the Oval Office.

[@taorente7438]

It took China and South Korea 20 to 30 years to build their first submarines. It only took Taiwan 7 years to build its first domestically produced submarine. This shows Taiwan's overall industrial strength. It took only two years for Taiwan Shipbuilding Industry Corporation to build a factory capable of producing three submarines at the same time. It took only two years for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop steel materials for submarines that are resistant to water pressure and explosions, as well as high-class steel material for unmanned submarines. It only took one year for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop ultra-thin electromagnetic steel sheets for UAV power motors that are better than those used by foreign countries, making Taiwan’s domestic UAV power motors 100% made in Taiwan, and yet giviving it a strong competitiveness in the international market. It only took one and half years for Taiwan to expand its missiles factory production line for large-scale mass production of missiles, and released component technology to Taiwan civil supply chain factories, enabling Taiwan's domestic missile production capacity to reach 5000 pieces annually in 2025. The research institute of Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense has released the technology of military drones to Taiwan civil factories of supply chain, to support and cutivate Taiwan civilian drone industry, for them to support the large-scale production of military drones in case of the wartime. The high-tech component manufacturing industry is the core of Taiwan's manufacturing industry. The government budget should take the lead in promoting the manufacturing project of integrating military systems, such as submarines. Its current self-made rate has reached 40%, and its orders of 8 to 10 submarines will be released to civil manufacturers. Naturally, the civil manufacturers of supply chain will do reverse engineering to manufacture components to replace imported products. Taiwan's machine tool industry will cooperate in the development and production of related precision machining machinery and tools to support that. Finally, domestic submarines will eventually achieve a self-made rate of 80% to 90%, making the domestic submarines significant cost reduction. The design and technology of domestically produced submarines have originally adopted the standards of the United States, Britain and Europe. The quality and price of domestically produced parts and components of submarine's will have strong competitiveness in the international market. Taiwan will become the supply chain of the international submarine market.

[@taorente7438]

Taiwan has successfully developed a 533mm-diameter torpedo launch system for Taiwan-made IDS submarine Narwhal. In addition to being used to launch US-made MK-48 heavy torpedoes, the system is also being prepared to launch Taiwanese-made submarine-launched Hsiung Feng II anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Feng III supersonic anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Sheng cruise missiles, and submarine-launched Sky Sword II air defense missiles. The diameters of these Taiwanese missiles, after being modified and installed in submarine-launched pods, are all smaller than 533mm torpedo launch tubes, and the IDS submarines can all launch them in the future. During launch, the torpedo tube will push the Taiwanese missile pod into the sea. After traveling a certain distance and approaching the surface, the missile engine will ignite, break out of the pod, and emerge from the water. After the guidance system is activated, the missile will fly into the sky and autonomously attack the target.

[@gyasiansa3358]

The best naval analyst ever!🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

[@brianomalley7501]

I agree he doesn't get enough credit for what he does he's the man

[@technopriest6708]

Awesome video! I wonder if you're thinking about covering the spanish new submarines,the s-80,which are look like they will be in service quite soon.

[@alexis_ian]

Considering it is the lead ship will be intresting to see how follow-on Hai Kun-class subs will differ with design improvments likely to be added on follow-on subs

[@dggeers]

The Skipjack Class was the nuclear version of the Barbel Class. Hull form, etc. were eseentially identical...

[@forcea1454]

Skipjack-class had considerable differences to the Barbel-class. Amongst other thing the Barbel-class were double-hulled, with their casings extending all the way around their pressure hulls, whereas as the Skipjack's had a vary minimal casing, around only the the extreme bow and stern, amidships where the pressure hull tapered around the reactor, and immediately aft of the sail to cover the exhausts for try diesel generators. The Skipjack-class has a 2ft wider beam, and is almost 50-ft longer.

[@BrunoViniciusCampestrini]

Great video, as always. Would only add, though, that some sources say the submarine will use li-ion batteryes, decreasing the need for an AIP.

[@5anjuro]

Hello, thanks for the first video on this. You have beat everyone )) There've been mentions of the Japanese technical assistance in this program, with former Mitsubishi Heavy Industries people involved, and some speculate that certain features of the Soryu class might have bled into the Hai Kun class. I certainly hope so.

[@Strelnikov403]

Would you consider doing a video on the Upholder/Victoria class SSKs?

[@raxneff]

@H I Sutton, I would like to know if there is some good online list/register of torpedos/submarines/... and theire (public) specs? Lately I'm searching pictures/specs of torpedos and tubes, I am particularly interested in how such a torpedo actually connects to the sub through glas fibre/cable

[@davewright5908]

Just FYI, the Dutch board's name is pronounced as: Zvard-fis. Meaning swordfish.

[@timbrwolf1121]

The US should pump up the taiwanese sub building industry. Our subs are too expensive for most countries, but if we can produce lesser but still quality and effective versions in taiwan we can aid their defense as well as our allies who might purchase them but would not have been able to afford US made subs anyway.

[@iancoates9232]

Mr. Sutton, Very interesting to see. Could you do a bit on modern small boat tactics, please? Thank you.

[@philorkill]

Thank you for shedding light on this topic!

[@taorente7438]

Taiwan took 4 years to learn and design its self-made submarine, and only took 3 years to complete its self-made modern submarine. Taiwan break the world record for manufacturing the submarine. In 1988 Taiwan was the 1st Asian country who could design and manufacture self-made 3rd generation Jet Fighter. Taiwan is also designing its own fifth-generation stealth twin-engine fighter jet, and the prototype will be produced in 2025. Taiwan is not only strong in semiconductor chip manufacturing technology, but also in other industries. Bravo Taiwan!

[@exharkhun5605]

You're not butchering Zwaardvis at all, although it sounds a little bit Flemish the way you pronounce it. Great video.😁

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

Good to know! Pure fluke

[@exharkhun5605]

​@@janneman27 Like I said, a bit Flemish. 😜 Here in West-Frisia the way Mr. Sutton pronounces it would be perfectly acceptable though. (We don't mind people sounding a bit Flemish as we think Belgium starts at the Noordzee Kanaal 🤣) The "W" as "V" sound seems a bit German/Scandinavian to me. (My real name being Sven I have some awareness of the difference in pronunciation.) We would definitely pronounce the "W" in Zwaard as a "W" although something like "zfwaard" doesn't sound totally alien to me, I can't recall where I heard it like that.

[@Wannes_]

@@HISuttonCovertShores I'm Flemish, and you butchered it a fair bit I'm afraid It's Z-sound, add "ward", then "V" (as in Visacard) and finally "is" (as in "it is") ...

[@pieterveenders9793]

@@janneman27 It's good enough, I could clearly understand he was talking about Zwaardvis.

[@RecoverForest]

I couldn't@@pieterveenders9793

[@miraphycs7377]

japan definitely helped because it has the X rudder rather than the + rudder. Japanese subs are one of the very few to feature X rudder

[@sumandutta4834]

I also think they are involved.

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

Japan is far from alone. X-rudders were first tested by US Navy in 1950s, then first adopted by the Swedes, then Yugoslavia, then Netherland. Japan, Germany, France all use them, UK and USA will soon, and China does on AUVs.

[@ClimateScepticSceptic-ub2rg]

Great video. Can you improve sound quality? It's very boomy.

[@IsaacKuo]

Thanks for this analysis! So informative, especially compared to the usual reports out there.

[@bryanoflynn5938]

Love your video's, great work. Please keep it up. Thank you.

[@mikslids7083]

The all-lithium-ion battery power system, its original technology comes from the Industrial Technology Research Institute (ITRI) in Taiwan. ITRI ​​successfully developed the world's first high-safety battery material STOBA (Self Terminated Olygomers with hyper-branched Architecture) in 2006. In 2009, ITRI was recognized by the worldwide “R&D 100 Awards” and favored by Japanese Mitsui Chemicals, Inc. ITRI and Mitsui Chemicals signed the STOBA exclusive licensing contract. After that Mitsui Chemicals established a STOBA material production factory in Taiwan in 2016 to produce and sell safe lithium battery technology materials to Taiwanese and Japanese manufacturers.

[@taorente7438]

Taiwan has successfully developed a 533mm-diameter torpedo launch system for Taiwan-made IDS submarine Narwhal. In addition to being used to launch US-made MK-48 heavy torpedoes, the system is also being prepared to launch Taiwanese-made submarine-launched Hsiung Feng II anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Feng III supersonic anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Sheng cruise missiles, and submarine-launched Sky Sword II air defense missiles. The diameters of these Taiwanese missiles, after being modified and installed in submarine-launched pods, are all smaller than 533mm torpedo launch tubes, and the IDS submarines can all launch them in the future. During launch, the torpedo tube will push the Taiwanese missile pod into the sea. After traveling a certain distance and approaching the surface, the missile engine will ignite, break out of the pod, and emerge from the water. After the guidance system is activated, the missile will fly into the sky and autonomously attack the target.

[@smellysam]

The rubber tiling will probably be added later after eyes are averted.

[@HammerOn-bu7gx]

I disagree with your conclusion on the AIP. First, they are complex and cranky systems to keep operational. Second, unlike the PCR, Taiwan doesn't have a substantial coast to patrol. When Taiwan goes on a war footing, they're ports are much closer to the action and their subs can replenish much more often than the PRC. Also, while submerged a true electric is as quiet as it gets and with no obvious anechoic coatings, unless there's some between the hulls, unlikely, they will need all the innate quietness they can get.

[@fantasyfleet]

Thanks for making this episode, been waiting for some real info.

[@gallendugall8913]

For short range operations diesel electric subs are superior to nuclear. The problem is once you start the diesels to recharge the batteries everyone within one hundred miles knows what and where you are. So you have to be able to retreat to safe areas where you can recharge your batteries, and the batteries limit your range, but for coastal defense/patrol they are unmatched.

[@shimadwan8251]

Huang Shu-kuang, who is leading the program, told local media last week that lawmakers, whom he did not name, had made it difficult for the program to purchase critical equipment, and that a contractor who had failed to obtain a bid forwarded information to China.

[@dixon_est]

Although Hai Kun does not have AIP, the question is - with modern batteries, is AIP even relevant anymore. I mean if you'd use equivalent amount of space and mass (compared to AIP, it's fuel, oxygen and it's auxiliary systems) to install modern LFP batteries, you could have approximately the same range boost.

[@fpnbrian]

you can count the number of hard points the propeller cover encounters, which should mean the number of blade tips it has, I count at least 8 possibly 9.

[@tuqe]

If you zoom on the screws it’s more than 7, can’t easily make it out without digging into it. They just hung sheets over it and you can see where they are supported

[@brianomalley7501]

Mr Sutton I want to thank you once again for another outstanding grade A video I don't think you get enough credit for what you share with us you have a gift my friend and I appreciate it I always look forward to your next history lesson you are the man no does it better

[@OTOss8]

What's the advantage of an x-form rudder vs. a cruciform rudder and why is the x-form high risk? Cheers.

[@samiamgreeneggsandham7587]

It’s good that they resisted any urge to gold plate this program. A sea denial platform is needed immediately, and going with a basic boat will leave more money for surface and submersible drones.

[@pieterveenders9793]

And they can always improve newer boats as they go, with stuff they learn from the program and trial & error.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Agreed. They don’t need to get super-fancy with their subs. They don’t need to get super-fancy. They don’t need an enormous amount of range out of their subs considering their most likely enemy is on their doorstep.

[@jensdanbolt6953]

Maybe even more important than saving money; they saved time!

[@ktsai302]

There are SO MANY unorthodox circumstances surrounding the development of Hai Kun submarine, that someone jokingly said the movie Mission Impossible seems pale by comparison. Risk and scheduling considerations destined Hai Kun to be a fairly conservative design. However, there are few aspects TW did follow updated submarine design trends. Other than the X rudder and side mounted sonar array, which are mentioned in the video, another key aspect wasn't mentioned, which is the photonics mast, which replaces the traditional periscope (Provided by US of course). This is game changer for Hai Kun because it substantially reduced the opening to the pressure hull that a traditional periscope would require. I would say this is not going advanced for the sake of going advanced, but part of the mentality to reduce development complexity and risk for the VERY first submarine built.

[@bigsarge2085]

Always informative.

[@davemsh]

What are the horizontal fins in the tail for?

[@SteamCrane]

The world wonders.

[@wape1]

Mr. Sutton, I just want to let you know that your channel is on a short list of YT channels that get an automatic like from me right at the start. Of course I would remove it if I didn't like the video after watching, but we'll cross that bridge _if we ever get to it._ Keep up the good work! 😙👍

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

Wow, thanks

[@taorente7438]

Taiwan has successfully developed a 533mm-diameter torpedo launch system for Taiwan-made IDS submarine Narwhal. In addition to being used to launch US-made MK-48 heavy torpedoes, the system is also being prepared to launch Taiwanese-made submarine-launched Hsiung Feng II anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Feng III supersonic anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Sheng cruise missiles, and submarine-launched Sky Sword II air defense missiles. The diameters of these Taiwanese missiles, after being modified and installed in submarine-launched pods, are all smaller than 533mm torpedo launch tubes, and the IDS submarines can all launch them in the future. During launch, the torpedo tube will push the Taiwanese missile pod into the sea. After traveling a certain distance and approaching the surface, the missile engine will ignite, break out of the pod, and emerge from the water. After the guidance system is activated, the missile will fly into the sky and autonomously attack the target.

[@Chad-w6f]

How do you size your illustration proportions? Seems unimaginable in the manner that you create them on MS paint. The length, proportion to other lengths, so wild!

[@nos9784]

I don't know too much about paint, but i think you can put in coordinates precisely.

[@m.streicher8286]

Its so cute how your watermark is just your channel profile with aspect ratio bars. I'm not being disingenuous, keeo it thay way :)

[@ktsai302]

My humble opinion is that, despite the obvious comparison to the Walrus Class with its X rudders, I can't help but notice some similarities or design references to the Oyashio Class. Specifically that the Hai Kun has the "cigar" shaped outer hull like the Oyashio, whereas Walrus still carry the teardrop shape. Also, the Walrus, like the Zwaardvis, still has the vertical sail design, whereas Haikun and Oyashio has sails that are more tapered.... Obviously with the lack of anechoic tiles, and less advanced steel materials, Haikun is definitely not in the same league as Oyashio, but I would say the 2 subs do share some similar design traits... Which shouldn't come as a surprise, as both Dutch and Japanese sub design heritage went back to the Barbel class. For better or worse, we can say that Walrus, the Oyashio, and the Haikun are distant cousins, to certain degree....

[@brealistic3542]

Good for Taiwan !

[@Wannes_]

Why would the X-tail be a risk ? The Dutch Walrusses have had them for 40 years , the German 212 has them, so do the Gotlands If you want bottom operations, it's less of a risk

[@stevengunter4990]

They need a little bit more complex movements for the different steeing actions, getting that right and also quiet isnt particularly easy(not terribly hard either but it is the first submarine they built)

[@Wannes_]

@@stevengunter4990 The lineage is quite clear. It doesn't have to be a reverse-engineered Walrus. Like the F-CK-1 Ching-kuo isn't a reverse-engineered blend between F-16 and F-18. If they build a sub in record time, it's without much doubt, because of foreign assistance in doing so ...

[@stevengunter4990]

@@Wannes_ i literally have not said anything that would imply otherwise.......

[@SteamCrane]

@@stevengunter4990 Engineer here. No big deal, either mechanically or electronically. Especially for the nation that makes more chips than any other.

[@stevengunter4990]

@@SteamCrane the fact that they produce a lot of chips really doesnt qualify them much......and no it isnt a problem mechanically and electronically for it just too work......but to get it to be quiet is more problematic,

[@janwitts2688]

The Taiwanese boat is using high capacity batteries from Japan..

[@rre9121]

Seems like a smart investment pathway for them. Even one of these vessels getting lose in a hot war scenario can cause immense problems for enemy shipping. Ill be interested in even the most basic specifications of the midget submarine too, the taiwan straight seems like the perfect place for such small, extremely stealthy assets.

[@taorente7438]

Taiwan has successfully developed a 533mm-diameter torpedo launch system for Taiwan-made IDS submarine Narwhal. In addition to being used to launch US-made MK-48 heavy torpedoes, the system is also being prepared to launch Taiwanese-made submarine-launched Hsiung Feng II anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Feng III supersonic anti-ship missiles, submarine-launched Hsiung Sheng cruise missiles, and submarine-launched Sky Sword II air defense missiles. The diameters of these Taiwanese missiles, after being modified and installed in submarine-launched pods, are all smaller than 533mm torpedo launch tubes, and the IDS submarines can all launch them in the future. During launch, the torpedo tube will push the Taiwanese missile pod into the sea. After traveling a certain distance and approaching the surface, the missile engine will ignite, break out of the pod, and emerge from the water. After the guidance system is activated, the missile will fly into the sky and autonomously attack the target.

[@DarkRendition]

2:00 There's a very distracting submarine behind that lovely woman.

[@bensigl3766]

I was under the imperssion that the Hai Kun used Lithium Ion batteries *instead* of AIP, which is seen as superior to sterling engines in their ability to rum silent for longer. Am I mistaken?

[@Skreezilla]

Do you think they will sell Hai Shih/Pao to the west as museum ships? I know the two did not see much action in ww2, but still would be so sad to see them scrapped. I did a video awhile back on their history too which was fun.

[@waynee.weatherwax8408]

USS Albacore had and proved "X" form stern rudders. She still has those today where she is on Dry display in New Hampshire. She also proved dual counter rotating propellers.

[@youkittubekit]

Towards the end you mentioneed that the future Taiwanese subs might come in an upgraded form. Would you speculate about the relative areas of improvement based on the feasability and cost of implementing them based on the existing design?

[@miles2378]

Do you think they have a photonic mast or a traditional parascope?

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

EO, from L3 Harris: www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/10/america-providing-advanced-systems-for-taiwan-new-submarine/

[@miles2378]

@@HISuttonCovertShores thank you.

[@河粉-k1h]

Do you think there is an urgent need to develop AIP for TW? Given its defensive requirements?

[@soccom8341576]

TW needs many more subs for asymmetric warfare.

[@grahamstrouse1165]

Be nice to have but probably not essential. The only enemy they have to worry about is their next door neighbor.

[@mtippett80]

Do you think there will come a point where AUV's become larger, so hold larger weapon stores and be able to do great surveillance and longer range, therefore negating the need for putting humans inside submarines?

[@grahamstrouse1165]

AUVs are likely going to operate largely as surveillance units for the foreseeable future. AI simply can’t replace human intelligence in noisy environments. It’s still just a very fancy calculator.

[@IsaacKuo]

Certainly the war in Ukraine is an eye opener on the possibilities of using sea going drones. But I think you're going to want a man in loop for any fire decision, so you're going to have to think differently in terms of communications and deployment limitations. For Taiwan's situation, I think that preparing a network of underwater communications cables could make sense. But there's always the less fanciful method of simply floating a communications pod on the surface. Obviously this introduces a risk of detection. But this may be mitigated in various ways, and also it might be practical to deploy a huge number of decoys. Each decoy could be as simple as a pod with a water reactive gas generator pill. It takes some hours or days to generate enough gas to float. The point is ... the UUV doesn't need a pressure hull or life support systems, but it can still operate somewhat like a normal warship just with the crew far away.

[@BuzzSargent]

Very interesting show. I subscribed! Happy Trails

[@thomascarpenter8177]

Mr. Sutton, would love a talk on the USS Albacore

[@nieljosephpalca7849]

Taiwan is indeed creating a submarine force but I think it would also be better if the Taiwanese Government will add or plan to build numerous coastal defence submarines/shallow water attack submarines/midget submarines.

[@dy031101]

Taiwan Strait is the province of the ROCAF strikefighters, ROCN minelayers, and coastal anti-ship missile launchers.

[@danilesambrano4000]

I don't know about that. If they could threaten to sink cargo ships. . . Millions of Chinese civilians could STARVE. The PRC is at least as vulnerable as the Brits during WW2, to a sub blockade. It is dirty, but it works.

[@user-iz2kk2fw4g]

I heard from somewhere that small armed unmanned subs are being developed and will be produced in much higher numbers but I'm not too sure about the reliability of that info.

[@dy031101]

@@user-iz2kk2fw4g Personally I'd believe it when I see it. I was pretty hyped about the new general purpose frigate project until they effectively cancelled it and instead tried to use that money for supposedly easier to build corvettes that would likely take just as long to enter service.

[@nieljosephpalca7849]

​@@dy031101 Even if Taiwan turns its attention to corvettes or any inexpensive surface combatants, the problem remains the same. Simply put, none of Taiwan's surface forces will survive for a day due to the fact that their opposing force is heavily invested in anti-ship missile systems. That is why it would be better for Taiwan to focus its attention on midget submarines as a supplementary component of their submarine force. I believe they are far more survivable and cost-effective in the event of a conflict. Additionally, consider that for the price of one $400 million USD frigate, Taiwan can acquire 4-8 midget submarines armed with heavyweight torpedoes.

[@DirkusTurkess]

Came for the legs, stayed for the knowledge.

[@CDSAfghan]

Sir! I've been patiently waiting for your analysis on the reported loss of the chinese submarine to their own trap. I wasn't aware these traps were still in use, as I figured trawlers would be snagging them constantly. As a ground pounder you're my go to source for all things little mermaid (under the sea).

[@flashwashington2735]

Talk about the frontier or cutting edge. Thanks God bless.

[@frostysimon101]

Why would you say the X - form rudder is a risky design choice vs the standard rudder?

[@sumandutta4834]

It was Reuters which reported that young and experienced naval engineers, experts, sailors and people from private/public sector companies from US, UK, South Korea, Australia, India, Spain, Canada were secretly involved. At the official level, every country denied. Japan also denied but some Japanese workers shared on social media about their frequent visits to Taiwan which fueled speculations. An Israeli company was acting as the point of contact. There might be more countries who were involved whom we will never know. Geopolitics around Taiwan is hot.

[@taorente7438]

It took China and South Korea 20 to 30 years to build their first submarines. It only took Taiwan 7 years to build its first domestically produced submarine. This shows Taiwan's overall industrial strength. It took only two years for Taiwan Shipbuilding Industry Corporation to build a factory capable of producing three submarines at the same time. It took only two years for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop steel materials for submarines that are resistant to water pressure and explosions, as well as high-class steel material for unmanned submarines. It only took one year for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop ultra-thin electromagnetic steel sheets for UAV power motors that are better than those used by foreign countries, making Taiwan’s domestic UAV power motors 100% made in Taiwan, and yet giviving it a strong competitiveness in the international market. It only took one and half years for Taiwan to expand its missiles factory production line for large-scale mass production of missiles, and released component technology to Taiwan civil supply chain factories, enabling Taiwan's domestic missile production capacity to reach 5000 pieces annually in 2025. The research institute of Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense has released the technology of military drones to Taiwan civil factories of supply chain, to support and cutivate Taiwan civilian drone industry, for them to support the large-scale production of military drones in case of the wartime. The high-tech component manufacturing industry is the core of Taiwan's manufacturing industry. The government budget should take the lead in promoting the manufacturing project of integrating military systems, such as submarines. Its current self-made rate has reached 40%, and its orders of 8 to 10 submarines will be released to civil manufacturers. Naturally, the civil manufacturers of supply chain will do reverse engineering to manufacture components to replace imported products. Taiwan's machine tool industry will cooperate in the development and production of related precision machining machinery and tools to support that. Finally, domestic submarines will eventually achieve a self-made rate of 80% to 90%, making the domestic submarines significant cost reduction. The design and technology of domestically produced submarines have originally adopted the standards of the United States, Britain and Europe. The quality and price of domestically produced parts and components of submarine's will have strong competitiveness in the international market. Taiwan will become the supply chain of the international submarine market.

[@mikslids7083]

Underwater submarines are difficult to detect. The waters around Taiwan are even more complex due to the Kuroshio Current and volcanic terrain. The Kuroshio Current, also known as the Japan Current, is a branch of the North Pacific Ocean current system. It is the second largest ocean current in the world, originating in the Philippines, passing through the East Coast of Taiwan, and flowing northeast along Japan before merging with the North Pacific Current. The Kuroshio Current has a current speed of 1 to 2 meters per second and a width of over 200 kilometers. Fish and underwater vehicles are carried along by the Kuroshio Current like they are on a highway, automatically flowing towards the North Pacific Current region. The complex deep sea area where the fast-flowing Kuroshio Current passes through stretches from the Bashi Channel region in southern Taiwan, connecting to the East coast of Taiwan, to the Miyako Strait region in northern Taiwan. Sea of East Coast of Taiwan, a "thermocline" is formed in the area where the water depth is 100 meters. Only a few sound waves can penetrate this "thermocline." Most of the sound waves are reflected back from the "thermocline" like a mirror, and continue to transmit back and forth between the "thermocline" and the surface of the sea. A sonar detection blind zone is formed below this area. Taiwan submarines and unmanned submarines can hide in this blind zone, and the Chinese military ship's sonar system or the sonar detection system thrown into the sea by anti-submarine aircraft from the sky will be unable to detect Taiwan submarines and unmanned submarines. If Taiwan submarines and unmanned submarines dive to a depth of 200-300 meters below sea level, the enemy can only use submarines to search for submarines to detect them. However, the surrounding waters of Taiwan are Taiwan's territory, especially the Bashi Channel in the southern part of the Taiwan Sea connecting to the Miyako Strait region in northern Taiwan, which is an area with unpredictable Kuroshio Currents. Chinese submarines or underwater vehicles cannot stay in this area for long. They will be automatically washed away to the North Pacific Ocean by the Kuroshio Current and will be unable to sustain combat operations here. Taiwan has already fully understood the Kuroshio Current area in the east, and is clear about the changing location of the underwater ambush zones around Taiwan throughout the four seasons. It has also deployed fixed and floating underwater sensors or unmanned submarines. Taiwan submarines and unmanned submarines are ambushed in the underwater ambush zones that move with the seasonal sea conditions, or they release denial intelligent mines in the surrounding area in advance. Chinese submarines dare not approach, for fear of being caught in the net and killed. When necessary, Taiwan's IDS submarines can dive to a depth of nearly 400 meters below sea level, where Chinese submarines cannot reach. They can then launch MK-48 torpedoes to easily destroy any enemy submarines or enemy fleet convoys that want to attack. Taiwan's geographical location is unique. The West Taiwan is separated by the Taiwan Strait to China, which is on average 180 kilometers wide, which is a natural barrier that can easily deter China's attempt to invade Taiwan by landing. The Bashi Channel in southern Taiwan connecting to the East Coast of Taiwan to the Miyako Strait in the north is an area with fast-flowing underwater currents. It is an area that cannot be stayed for long unless there is support from a nearby port. It is also a natural barrier. Taiwan's great self-made submarine capability has supplemented this block of underwater defense and combat capabilities. It can easily deter China's attempt to invade Taiwan from southern, eastern, and northern Taiwan. Taiwan's national defense is in a state of prosperity, and Taiwan can now rest assured. Taiwan's domestically produced submarines and unmanned submarines are the most important strategic weapons of national defense. Now that Taiwan has produced manned and unmanned submarines, China not only has no chance to cross the sea to invade Taiwan or blockade Taiwan, but it also has to worry about its ports being blockaded, which will completely shatter China's illusion of invading Taiwan! Taiwan's air defense missile system density is one of the highest in the world. It is impossible for the Chinese military to fly over. The Taiwan Strait in the west of Taiwan is a transparent firing line. The Chinese military ships and submarines that invade from here are tantamount to suicide. The southern, eastern, and northern parts of Taiwan are guarded by the natural Kuroshio Current barrier and the submarines and unmanned submarines of Taiwan Navy. The Chinese aircraft carrier, destroyer, and escort fleet will not dare to come.

[@Klyis]

I'm a little curious as to why you consider the X form rudder a risky design choice? Multiple modern submarine classes have been using X form rudders for years now so it's not exactly a radical and untested new technology.

[@ktsai302]

I believe the author's presumption (which is a very reasonable one!) that Hai Kun's core concept was to copy the Zwaardvis as much as possible, as it would be prudent for a complete beginner to learn and copy from equipment they used and familiarized for more than 20 years. What Mr. Sutton may not have realized is that the development team decided that they need to design all aspects of the ship around components and sub-systems that may be completely different from the time of the Zwaardvis era. One example would be the photonics mast instead of the traditional periscope. Due to Taiwan's unique international circumstances, the development team does not have the luxury of multiple sources to pick from for its components and sub-systems, so designing the ship to tailor to particular component, instead of the other way round, is a huge issue with this project.

[@alfredkwok9239]

Hai Lung Claa - in English means Sea Dragon Class ( Hai : means the Sea, Lung means the Dragon ❤❤❤

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Why does the Yuan class have a red-ish underside?

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

Just the paint, pretty normal across many countries. USN too on many classes

[@pieterveenders9793]

@@HISuttonCovertShores Isn't the red hue due to some kind of antifouling additive?

[@kreterakete]

I would love to hear a new unscripted and unedited episode ❤❤

[@TP-ie3hj]

While the finish of the outer hull and the sail windows etc have really no impact and you think it not a big deal you should press the same points on other subs. If this were a sub built in Iran or the DPRK those details would be seen and proclaimed to show its an inferior product. As one of the worlds best known experts its nice to hear you point this out. I would hope those watching are able to carry this knowledge forward.

[@n1k2-ja46]

What I am most concerned about at the moment is the provision of combat system related equipment from the US, but the most important thing is the audio data of "SS, SSN, SSBN, SSGN, CG, DDG, DD, FFG, FF, SVN, CV, etc." -It's Tar-. It is a top-secret, first-class strategic asset that is being collected by the navies of each country first using acoustic observation ships. I'm curious as to whether they will actually provide this data. It may be rude to say this, but I don't think ROCNAVY has the ability to collect this much data (they don't actually own a ship like this). Plus, the way sound travels in seawater is closely related to seawater temperature (this is also common knowledge in some navies that operate submarines), which also seems to be a weakness. The advantages of a normal powered type are ``quietness'' and ``mobility''.If these two points are not excellent, you will be immediately hunted by DD and patrol aircraft. I hope you realize this soon. 現時点で一番気になるのは戦闘システム関連はUSの供与ですが、一番大事なのは”SS,SSN,SSBN,SSGN,CG,DDG,DD,FFG,FF,SVN,CV等”の音響デ－タ－です。各国海軍が真っ先に音響観測船等で収集している第１級戦略資産、超極秘です。このデ－タ－まで本当に供与するのかが気になります。こういう言い方は失礼かもしれませんがROCNAVYにここまでのデ－タ－収集能力があるとは思えません（現にこの様な船舶を保有していない）。プラス海水内での音の進み方は海水温と密接に関係している（これも潜水艦を運用している”ある程度の海軍では常識”）この点も弱いと思われる。 通常動力型のメリットは”静粛性”と”機動力”この２点が優れていないとたちまちDDや哨戒機にハンティングされてしまう。 早くこの事に気付いてほしい。

[@jamesdoesitmatter]

This could be problematic to any potential amphibious landing ships.

[@CatsFerDays]

playing UBOAT while listening to HI gotta be some type of trend 😂

[@Psychonauta]

Nice, greetings from Poland, thanks for awesome content

[@김하늘-w4g5b]

나라를 지킬수 있는건 자국의 국방력이 필수 입니다.. 하루 빨리 중공의 위협을 이겨낼수 있도록 강력한 국방을 키울수있기를 기원 합니다

[@bnuttsgee]

To protect a country, national defense is essential. I hope that we can develop a strong national defense as soon as possible to overcome the threat from China. "translated "

[@김하늘-w4g5b]

꼭 그러게 될거 에요..대만 에겐 친구들이 있잖아요..미국 일본 그리고 한국 ...GOOD LUCK@@bnuttsgee

[@bnuttsgee]

❤❤❤❤@@김하늘-w4g5b

[@taorente7438]

Taiwan took 4 years to learn and design its self-made submarine, and only took 3 years to complete its self-made modern submarine. Taiwan break the world record for manufacturing the submarine. In 1988 Taiwan was the 1st Asian country who could design and manufacture self-made 3rd generation Jet Fighter. Taiwan is also designing its own fifth-generation stealth twin-engine fighter jet, and the prototype will be produced in 2025. Taiwan is not only strong in semiconductor chip manufacturing technology, but also in other industries. Bravo Taiwan!

[@MutheiM_Marz]

@@taorente7438 About Taiwan being the 1st to have domestic 3rd gen jet, Japanese already have Mitsubishi F-1 in 1975

[@taorente7438]

It took China and South Korea 20 to 30 years to build their first submarines. It only took Taiwan 7 years to build its first domestically produced submarine. This shows Taiwan's overall industrial strength. It took only two years for Taiwan Shipbuilding Industry Corporation to build a factory capable of producing three submarines at the same time. It took only two years for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop steel materials for submarines that are resistant to water pressure and explosions, as well as high-class steel material for unmanned submarines. It only took one year for Taiwan Steel Corporation to develop ultra-thin electromagnetic steel sheets for UAV power motors that are better than those used by foreign countries, making Taiwan’s domestic UAV power motors 100% made in Taiwan, and yet giviving it a strong competitiveness in the international market. It only took one and half years for Taiwan to expand its missiles factory production line for large-scale mass production of missiles, and released component technology to Taiwan civil supply chain factories, enabling Taiwan's domestic missile production capacity to reach 5000 pieces annually in 2025. The research institute of Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense has released the technology of military drones to Taiwan civil factories of supply chain, to support and cutivate Taiwan civilian drone industry, for them to support the large-scale production of military drones in case of the wartime. The high-tech component manufacturing industry is the core of Taiwan's manufacturing industry. The government budget should take the lead in promoting the manufacturing project of integrating military systems, such as submarines. Its current self-made rate has reached 40%, and its orders of 8 to 10 submarines will be released to civil manufacturers. Naturally, the civil manufacturers of supply chain will do reverse engineering to manufacture components to replace imported products. Taiwan's machine tool industry will cooperate in the development and production of related precision machining machinery and tools to support that. Finally, domestic submarines will eventually achieve a self-made rate of 80% to 90%, making the domestic submarines significant cost reduction. The design and technology of domestically produced submarines have originally adopted the standards of the United States, Britain and Europe. The quality and price of domestically produced parts and components of submarine's will have strong competitiveness in the international market. Taiwan will become the supply chain of the international submarine market.

[@dejectedfrogcat2840]

“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.”

[@drink__more__water]

You title your video like I have a long list of defense analysts telling me about this sub ;P Nah, just you internet man. Keep up the good work!

[@_Alfa.Bravo_]

Thanks and salut for your very superb work, Sir !!!!!!!!!

[@HISuttonCovertShores]

Many thanks

[@dereksherwood3794]

Well done Taiwan!

[@rs-dp6pr]

Locally designed submarine is a bit of stretch.. lol.. it's like Indian navy saying they have a locally designed destroyer.. with a hundred companies from 30 countries building it...

[@justinbrown691]

Does this signal an improvement in Taiwan's materials and heavy industry?

[@everypitchcounts4875]

Taiwan secretly worked on this sub with a lot of contractors from US, UK, Japan and a few others. As reported by TaiwanPlus news. I hope H I Sutton covers UK company winning the contract for AUKUS new submarines.

[@shingnosis]

Xi Jinping told someone to downvote this

[@hugocheng6243]

Very informative , thank you

[@mcallahan9060]

I don't understand Taiwan's intention to only build 8 of these submarines. The fact of the matter is in reality with all 8 built, 4 are going to be in maintenance at any given moment and those 4 will most likely be destroyed in the opening salvo of a Chinese attack. 10 to 12 hulls would be a much smarter plan in my opinion.

[@vkobevk]

because sub marine maintenance cost money also for one taiwan sub marine china can build 10

[@herrinigo2034]

Some sources claim Hai-Kun submarines will employ lithium-ion battery propulsion, as the latest JMSDF submarines, Oryu and Tigei class do. This fact would compensate for the lack of AIP equipment.

[@okapmeinkap7311]

But first yer mind I take a shit?

[@danielniffenegger7698]

Would you PLEASE stop saying “this is unscripted and unedited…” it’s unnecessary, self-deprecating and repetitive. You’re great at what you do and I’d say that your exceptional PowerPoints are your script. You’re top notch; now act like it and be confident in yourself!!!