Taking a Look at Idol Culture and the Strange Industry Around it

[@aarotron2189]

I do not think there is anything wrong about admiring someone, but turning it into some creepy cult is something else.

[@DCNRS90YT]

I agree tbh.

[@roseliadevoted3911]

MOOOOD! I love (albeit fictional but the seiyuus will do things in person for these groups) Aqours and μ's from Love Live but like I won’t stalk Shuka Saito (the seiyuu of my favorite Aqours girl) or like try to harass her online or something. There is a level of respect that should be had for these idols and seiyuus who voice like anime idols and whatnot.

[@jimmitchell8909]

And while we're at it, why not remove sports teams fans. Those are worse than idols fans because there's so much violence - from fights breaking out, to riots and beat downs, to people having bottles thrown at them at stadiums... even down to the high school level where teams fans fight other schools teams in brawls. Hell, even younger you hear of parents getting into fights with other parents over their kids sports. At least with idol fans, nobody is being hurt. Perhaps you should fix your problems at home before you start trying to fix a completely different culture's problems. Or rather, manufacturing a problem where there is none. Idol culture isn't strange at all if you take the time to understand it. And the problems the video brought up? Exceptions, one-off anomalies and exaggerations. They have to do that or else there'd be no point in making a video about something boring.

[@campkira]

Human.

[@redfish337]

@@jimmitchell8909 Old, sorry, but I saw two "fights" at idol shows this year. One was an actual fight and I didn't see it start so no comment except it happened. The other was one guy being a $%^#$ (it was a free event, so pinchike) and then some other fan threw him the @%% out of the room. lol. After throwing him out he came back in quite satisfied and everything carried on as before. But I mean, considering basically every idol event is 1-2 drink charge, it's not too bad. Like basically everything, most people are just trying to have a good time and there are just a handful of troublemakers. And I frankly can't really disagree with throwing out the trash. >_____>

[@mentalotaku]

God I remember when Suzuko Mimori was found to have a boyfriend, she had gotten so much harassment from her male Love Live! fans to the point that she had to go into hiding fir a few days. She isn’t even really an idol, she’s a voice actress!

[@TatsuyaWow]

i mean i like the idol and music but no dating is kind lame i woulnd not mind them have boyfriend husband

[@FEAROWNAGE]

Honestly those people should be publicly shamed.

[@blueberrycheez]

I saw that thing too and I was so worried of Mimorin because of those fans. Some fans can be so crazy..

[@TheRachaelLefler]

Fans go fucking crazy about seiyuus in Japan too. Not like here where it's considered not "real" acting or like a lesser form of acting.

[@mentalotaku]

Dark of the knight last time I watched one of their live concert the stadium was mostly males, and you could hear it lol

[@plutia6882]

The "no dating rule" is actually starting to disappear now, I know plenty of groups that allow members to publicly have relationships and many other groups are starting to remove this rule

[@taylornicole3123]

WOW COOL😊

[@mariakutsu5946]

I'm really happy about this. There's more freedom given to idols nowadays.

[@BreeBrando]

I hope you mean in jpop cause kpop it’s still alive and well sadly

[@plutia6882]

@@BreeBrando yes i do mean jpop im not very fond of kpop tbh the music is to much like western pop music

[@02844564]

Is this true!? If so, Awesome! That was one of biggest pet peeves bout Idols when I discovered AKB and IM@S, that rule was messed up!

[@jdamourep]

I'm sorry but I find it creepy as hell. The fans are rabbid, and worship them like God's. Idol's are overworked, and have a crazy amount of rules. Many of the rules being there to appeal to the fans, and creating this weird fantasy around them. I'm not saying you can't enjoy being an idol, or that there aren't normal fans but I honestly don't like Idol culture.

[@xaldrortenderofthevats8948]

of course they worship them as Gods, Japan is used to having 8,000,000 of them, a few more mean a new source of revenue for their sponsors. Why do you suppose they are called "Idols" and not "Celebrities" or "Stars"? using either of the latter would imply that they are merely gifted, but still human. Idol insinuates that it is deserving of worship, and knowing the Ten Commandments, well, lets just say we shouldn't be putting them on a pedestal shan't we?

[@stockings1022]

I feel the same.

[@idoldigikyryn1253]

Brandon Roberts Ok just so you are aware. Most Jpop idols get breaks when they request them. Also idol culture is a result of a collective society. Most fans don’t worship there idols they want to support them. I’ve never met a fan who worshiped an idol. Ever. Period. I’ve been to idol concerts, I’ve been to meet ups and hand shake events and it’s not like that. An AKB idol went on a 6 month hiatus cause of school and stress because she could. If they are working too much they either have shitty Management or simply are thinking about the collective not the individual. Something that is common in Japan and other Asian countries. However, I do respect that you find idols weird and If you truly find idols weird and gross please do not fight with fans or any idols supporters. It’s extremely disheartening to hear people slam a product of a different culture and violence only breeds more violence.

[@GigawingsVideo]

This is why I prefer J-Rock. Much more freedom and great tunes as well.

[@alexhero64]

Yeah there's a story on Reddit about a girl befriending a very popular Kpop idol. People ended up breaking into her house filming her , writing racial comments to her social media, random people were screaming at her and she ended up breaking down and moving back to America

[@stephicool]

Maybe former idols can be rehired by their company to be trainers, managers, and mentors

[@TheRachaelLefler]

I think that a lot of them must get something out of it they can use later. Definitely charisma and public speaking ability count for a lot during a job hunt. But yeah they could also be singing, dancing, and acting teachers as well. Also could easily get into acting and/or journalism. They work extremely hard for a few years, it's going to look good on a resume to show that they have the dedication.

[@YoudonGettit]

@@TheRachaelLefler That's not true. How can they have any maganement/speaking/job hunting skill or anything like that when EVERYTHING they say is scripted by their producer ? They are groomed from the youngest age (7-8 years old) to be perfect little puppets. They have no academic knowledge, no friends (heavily discouraged by producers), little to no relationship left with their family as their living quarters are decided by the producers too and of course no confidence left after being basically a glorified slave during their whole childhood.

[@mahiru20ten]

@@YoudonGettit That's not true. Even if they are scripted, they should've got training to say or perform like that. It's like being a pro wrestler, I think... although everything is scripted, they at least have the endurance and physical abilities above the average person, and some of them are pretty well enough to speak (or making a promo that can resonate with their character), although there are some exceptions... And I don't think having no friends in the industry is good. Even an evil producer of a group should've known that their workers should at least have one or two comrades for them.

[@grirea6080]

Rachael Lefler Not sure about J-Pop, but it's not uncommon in K-Pop for vocal and dance coaches to be idols: Solji from EXID was their vocal coach until three members left the group (later they would re-debut as BESTie) and she got in as their new Main Vocalist; Apink's Eunji originally auditioned to become a vocal trainer, but the company decided she would be better as an idol; Dana and Lina from CSJH are both idols and vocal coaches in their company; Beat Burguer is an idol group completely composed of dance coaches; BoA is a vocal and dance coach; and majority of the Main Dancers in K-Pop are assigned the task of being dance instructors to the members, and they might even become official choreographers. @EB Regarding the skill to work, Idols are indeed trained in a number of languages (Japanese, Chinese, English, and sometimes more) and they are given training on how to make a speech and how to behave, since they have to appear constantly on shows as either hosts or guests (I don't remember who, but a former girl group member left in order to become a businesswoman, and she is quite successful as far as I remember). There are some groups where a member is specifically tasked with the "spokesperson" role, and this role might extend into a bigger position: BoA and Kangta are, for example, their company representatives in a number of shows and events, and have been credited as Executive Producers before. Other Idols (such as HA:TFELT, Jessi, LE (EXID), RM (BTS), Taeyang (BIGBANG), Yuri (SNSD), Tiffany Young, etc.) have been given training in Songwriting, and many Idols also own other businesses (a famous example is G-Dragon owning his own chain of Coffeeshops, or Minzy owning a Dance Academy, and Jessica Jung owns a fashion brand). Regarding the "nearly no friends" part, that's not as severe as people make it out to be: Cao Lu from FIESTAR is well-known for being friends with a huge number of industry insiders, for example; same goes for the SHINHWA members (especially Eric), Bi Rain, Bada (S.E.S), Anda, G-Dragon, Nine Muses' Hyemi, Jessica Jung, etc. All those are known for having a big number of connections inside the industry. And, if you don't think that's not accountable as "friendship", Yeri from Red Velvet, Amber from f(x), Heechul from Super Junior, Henry from Super Junior-M, and V from BTS are well-known for being social butterflies, being friends with many other idols. The thing about "friendship" is that idols really are very busy, and they mostly only get to socialize between themselves, during music shows / variety programs recordings, and ISAC (an entire day recording of Athletic Events were Idols are competitors, Girl's Day members have even said that this is the best place for Idols to try and get a date). But what I mentioned is mostly allowed only after the Idols have been in the Industry for a certain time (usually 5-7 years) and, even then, they have to be successful. I'm talking only about K-Pop, these may not apply to J-Pop.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Stephystar same goes for Models, „Cough“ Heidi Klum „Cough“

[@lssjgaming1599]

Idols are literally some of the most abused people it seems. They don’t get to do much in life as everything is for their public image and their business. It’s sad. I just want people to live happy lives

[@nefariousgremlin7554]

Absolutely. It's just incredibly disturbing to look into.

[@culturezoneculturezone9071]

Ehh, not nowadays but back then definitely. And j-pop and K-pop idols are extremely different, I would say Koreans is worse tho.

[@ricardodeleon3041]

@@culturezoneculturezone9071 Actually yes nowdays ofcourse this is not applying to international groups to keep a safe space but the controlling lifestile of idols the brainwashing to think its normal and ok and sexualisation is still dominant, its like Holywood stars reversed, on one the contractors give you a lot of freedom but the media and powerfull people around you take control of your life, while in the other the media and people advocate for your freedom (more or less) but the contractors assert the life control.

[@culturezoneculturezone9071]

@@ricardodeleon3041 nope, you have several idol groups in j-pop who aren't molded by the media at all. BiSH BiS Little Glee monster Gang parade Buttocks Empire Fairies Angerme Morning musume Juice=juice Tsubaki factory Ect. And Don't get me started on non idol groups like the exile tribe units.

[@raphaelmarquez9650]

And they're currently being despised by western audiences for "ruining" their favorite Japanese mediums.

[@emilyaranda2831]

*gives interesting facts on Japan history and their economy* "baCK TO THE IDOLS THOUGH-"

[@TheRachaelLefler]

The story of Japan's post-war economic rise is a very inspiring one.

[@mahiru20ten]

Bubble economy was mad indeed. Now if only I got a decent PC or PS4, I wanna play Yakuza 0...

[@wilsonsilva2918]

@Rachael Lefler Not really, they basically got funded and given a strong market by the US and as soon as the US started acting more protectionist they went down like it was 1929

[@artv.9989]

well the whole point of the video was talking about the idols

[@TheRachaelLefler]

Given by the US? The US did not have an interest in making Japanese companies preferred for consumer electronics, music, cars, and so on over American companies. But that ended up happening.

[@CrowSkyFang]

4:10 did i see... *MARIYA TAKEUCHI - PLASTIC LOVE*? i swear to god i only know that song because of youtube's recommendations

[@yltraviole]

For some reason, KZbin really likes that song.

[@Silly_Sulky_Seli]

I know it because I like J-city-pop a lot and yeah her song is now one of the most popular ones today

[@MinttMeringue]

She's a classic singer, yup. I love that that one song is so popular and recommended all the time by YT

[@Marichii1]

oh hell yea plastic love is catchy

[@hoshinojavi]

Funny because she wasn't even an idol (?

[@Velarix]

Being reminded of idol culture always makes me sad because I remember how horribly they get treated. This is a pretty great script Monger. You've been on a big roll recently.

[@TheRachaelLefler]

Yeah RPG Monger's been on fire lately! :)

[@Peachiebun]

I remember a interview of a former idol when they did a article along time a go. “Idol meaning is perfection, *I-dol* means ‘industry-doll” and that blew my mind because it’s true. Many are seen and treated like porcelain dolls, kept on the highest self.

[@rainbownotation]

Idk if this is me being a slowpoke but I really like that you put the names of the music tracks you're using in the corner of the video when they come on. Super awesome!

[@tigipilled]

K-pop is taking western countries by storm and if you look into it you can see the stars passing out, throwing up, and just being so exhausted and tired and sick from being overworked for all their money, not to mention stalking in Asia is really bad so you have that to deal with

[@Fr00stee]

toucan The way I see it its not the western countries themselves that like K Pop its mostly the asians that live in them that like it. I haven’t seen many fans of k pop who aren’t asian personally

[@xxxfairycorpsexxx7592]

not really, international kpop fans, western to be specific, are probably those who are most aware and against the way agencies treat idols, since it’s just so far away from what we accept and are used to here in the west.

[@tigipilled]

at my school bts is really big and there are videos of them passing out and being sick so I don’t really know since they do tour around but didn’t they stay in Korea? I’m not familiar with kpop I’m just going off ear. I honestly don’t think anyone’s going to help. Mostly just fawn over their favourites

[@0xsrhredx0]

@@tigipilled they're touring internationally at the moment.

[@0xsrhredx0]

I'd like to mention fans have complained to the management to have the members take breaks and stop pushing them around. But sometimes, its also the idols who overwork and push themselves too hard.

[@SimplyKattastic]

I watched a documentary on netflix that documented the fanbase of these up and coming idols as well as the young girls themselves. Some were so young, those scenes really bothered me when the men would say they found the girls appealing...There were a few sweet scenes, for example one girl is a streamer and an otaku herself who travel around japan on a bike live streaming the whole thing. She still does it I believe here on youtube. The sweet thing was her fans would ride along ahead of her or behind her to make sure she's safe. So she wasn't even really alone, especially when doing meet and greets, one man in particular who I'd say was her #1 fan, would kinda be like the bodyguard and helped her out with music videos and stuff. While a lot of that documentary made me feel uncomfortable, it was nice to see some fans being just genuinely nice and not TOO over the top. Also it was interesting to see the underground idols, the ones that no one knows about besides their very devoted fan base and what they do.

[@otomeroadie2968]

SimplyKattastic! Do you happen to have the name of the documentary? It sounds interesting!

[@SimplyKattastic]

@@otomeroadie2968 Tokyo Idols it's called. I might have a few scenes mixed up some info not 100% as I was just remembering off the top of my head. It's a good documentary though!

[@MinttMeringue]

SimplyKattastic! Sounds super cool! I'll look it up too, thanks

[@otomeroadie2968]

@@SimplyKattastic I will check it out. Thank you!

[@musicfriendly12]

People that aren't into the whole idol thing tend to generalize a lot, but in reality there are fanbases and fanbases, idols and idols, specially in Japan, specially underground idols.

[@ItsEndyy]

I'm proud that you talked about Jpop. Instead of kpop since currently, everything is around kpop.

[@angelicav346]

True

[@REDRUN66]

Ikr? K-pop is just a rip-off of j-pop.

[@rei2294]

@@REDRUN66 kpop is kpop jpop is jpop dont compare them when they are different

[@wakakabravo7998]

Because Idol culture started in Japan.

[@NicaChan01]

yas I was really glad to see these kinds of posts because nowadays its just all about kpop and bts and blackpink lol (no pun intended)

[@ryanleatigaga7596]

The only idols I listen to are Boys Who Cry and Patty Road. :)

[@xlectraheart]

Ryan Leatigaga Boys who cry are so underrated 😔✊️

[@annazee4279]

stan boys who cry forever

[@mahiru20ten]

When my tearducts get issue... I can't just use any tissue... I NEED 4 PLY, 4 PLY, 4 PLY, WHEN I CRYYYYYY! HAH!

[@Weeb-kt4rt]

Im more of a Ned and the Needlefish fan but I agree with Boys who Cry

[@jamz1507]

Squidward is my favorite member

[@plutia6882]

Most groups also allow their members to take as much time off as needed nowadays even during important events, the group I'm a fan of allowed the leader/centre of the group to take a 7 month break even during their anniversary events and more, hell most of the members of this group take time off pretty often

[@nikkorin]

U a keyakizaka fan? I'm kinda getting into them. Didn't Yurina take a long break?

[@plutia6882]

@@nikkorin yes I'm a keyaki fan 😂 and yeah yurina is the person I mentioned who took the 7 month break if you need any help with getting into them like finding new songs or where to watch their shows English subbed feel free to ask me :)

[@darrenmwa]

Keyaki Chanzu Good for them. Thanks for telling me about that. Have a nice day.

[@plutia6882]

@@darrenmwa the sarcasm was unnecessary tbh but ok

[@Rusticabcd]

Who are you.

[@Blurns]

I wish I could get paid to not be in a relationship. Nothing would change, but at least I'd be getting paid.

[@katenka_ana3997]

you just have to be hot (*cough* surgery) and be able to sing and dance. no problem

[@icarusflies9670]

@@katenka_ana3997 sing as screech and dance as jump around. Sorry but SOME (key word) of these idol groups are just jumping attractive teenagers

[@bjam89]

Stabbed 34 times and lived... Damn

[@herrzeiens3503]

Take that Julius Cesar!

[@theinternetpolice4365]

Fucking juggernaut. A singing, unarmed juggernaut.

[@tucosandov8348]

50 cent aint got shit on her

[@joutakujo5621]

I prefer death geez

[@IGot7RevtinyArmyStayOnceBlink]

Omfg...I can’t. When he said that I was beyond shocked.

[@seasaltlover7409]

Perfect Blue is a really good movie, and I actually recomend to check it out along with Satoshi Kon's other works, they will change your perspective on many things. Asides from that, I do not follow an idol group but knew only basic knowledge about it, I always wondered what was going on in the industry and the fanbase. Thank you for the video!

[@laurens.8475]

The US has a similar situation, although probably not as extreme. But we all know that Disney keeps a pretty tight leash on its "cast members" and child idols. Unlike in Asia, however, a lot of the Western pop idols more often than not end up having psychotic breakdowns along with drug and alcohol abuse which eventually gets them evicted by The Mouse.

[@jaydlor949]

Oh yeah that's true

[@TheRachaelLefler]

Yeah, or they hit puberty, are dropped by Disney, and then have a drug/alcohol fueled mental breakdown. Disney uses children for a few years and abandons them if they're no longer at that cute innocent age.

[@Written_in_the_Starss]

Western pop idols like Taylor Swift changes borfriend as often as possible is disgusting.

[@charlesngs8249]

Lol really? Where's Hannah Montana now? Most of Disney's child celebrities ended up with drugs and lawsuits.

[@twoweeks9605]

marvioxious1989 Why are you bothered by an fully grown woman's life choices?

[@culturezoneculturezone9071]

As a j-pop fan it's getting better and I mean way better for idols. I also appreciate the non idol part of j-pop is way more easy than a idol.

[@Gleamiarts]

Ive always found idol culture weird

[@BlackCroft666]

The west has its stories about singers and actors as well. Tina Turner for example. Biörk. The Beatles. Kelly Family. Insane people and insane fan groups are everywhere.

[@TheRachaelLefler]

Oh man, the Beatles fan horror stories are still shocking to this day.

[@Written_in_the_Starss]

Everything nowadays is weird. Weird is the new norm.

[@dewaeryadi7776]

I always treat akb48 as a stepping stone for the girls to find their own place on the entertainment industry, some of them became actress, tv personality, solo artist and fashion brand owner and one of the girl, i forget her name, opening yakiniku restaurant, i dont really like akimoto yasushi but i thank him for giving the girls, hundreds of them chance to pursue their entertainment industry career and employing thousands of staffs required for the group to operate

[@hoshinojavi]

And btw AKB system isn't like he's portraying all idol groups. Their lifes are pretty normal

[@Ucuz_]

A lot of them graduate and become nobody

[@dewaeryadi7776]

Is called retiring, nobody is just living an ordinary life, nothing last forever and its always up to the girls what next after graduating

[@MelvinDukowski]

One of the biggest reasons why I could never get into Jpop or Kpop idol groups is because the industries are just simply disgusting. The music isn't that good in my opinion, but the amount of abuse in the industry is just horrific.

[@achooe5443]

True that. I like the music and the stars themselves, but the entertainment companies are just... ugh.

[@narudayo5053]

The horrific is apply more to kpop than jpop. But, even in non idol, there is horrific things. At least in Jpop they are more trait as a human than in kpop who are trait as clones product. Plus, there is a lot of diversity in Jpop, you should watch some song from wednesday campanella, myth&roid, KankakuPiero, Keyakizaka46 to Femm. This is really diverse. ;)

[@luc-eh3ox]

@Jack Blackthorn kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3XImGqMp9V7mK8 u welcome

[@navillerra]

@@narudayo5053 i'd disagree with you tbh, jpop and kpop fans are equally as bad. j-netz made a post about WORST female young actresses and i was disgusted

[@navillerra]

@Jack Blackthorn pop overall is cancer

[@cltheworld]

As someone who's been familiar with the J-idol fandoms (Hello!Project, Keyaki) the whole situation has gotten a lot better compared to years such as 2011 and 2013. Idols take LONG breaks now, especially when sick or injured and its amazing. They're getting a little more freedom in their jobs a little each day and I'm glad the industry is starting to improve. Feeling bad for the Kpop idols though, since they've gotten popular its gotten much harder for them now.

[@tomasmcgrath5766]

But zombie idols are where its at.

[@02844564]

@Brandon Roberts Have a Cookie for that!

[@Shadowonwater]

Yes

[@raphaelmarquez9650]

Only if you're into necrophilia.

[@xsveron1287]

tae best girl err zombie

[@Evilmonkey7270]

YAMADA TAE!!!

[@bekak5183]

Also, people in the comments, Kpop Idols and Jpop idols aren't the same thing. The industries look the same on the outside but the way idols are treated, the marketing, and the culture are very very different.

[@hansijawns]

I hate to break it to you, but the idols of both industries are abused.

[@theakiwar9118]

Both industries are pieces of shit

[@bittersweet9335]

From a girl who has slithered through all corners of both kpop and jpop idol scenes, a personal evaluation: I am absolutely obsessed with idols. I was raised on them. I love the cutesy outfits and the happy vibes. I love that they sing and dance and sing about positive or serious and confrontational themes all while having that energy. They fueled my own dreams and aspirations and helped me get into college. I probably admired mostly female idols only because of this. Jpop and kpop. (But morning musume was one of my first favorites! I saw them live in 2014 and I was a wee 15 haha, I was happy to see them.) Recently I got into bts, so genuinely I received the same happiness from a boy group that I only ever got from girl groups. I have already created some distance. At least with some of the jpop groups I have felt even the most obsessive fans were like family, they cared about seeing their idols grow and could acknowledge their mistakes. But my time around bts fans was miserable. Kpop fans have always been worse than the jpop scene while I grew up around both. And I also think kpop fans were once like that but it’s so broad now you got the justin bieber fans and one direction fans and you can only imagine........ There are too many of those kinds that worship the boys like they are not humans that they admire, but gods. If you say jimins voice cracked, they’ll kill you. Even if the boys do something wrong, a handful of the fans can’t deal with it and attack anyone who points it out. The delusional shippers, and at least half of the fanbase REFUSES to acknowledge that its possible to be critical of someone you love or admire. While there are issues with both, after being hyper involved with both jpop is like a a breath of fresh air. They like cute girls and do have beauty standards, but the definition of what is cute is broad, diverse and often based on personality which is NEVER the case with kpop who forces plastic surgery on their members. Jpop sings about everything. Only bts and some solo artists really get close... Even if the idols themselves arent doing everything, there is so much artistic creativity in jpop and they are never afraid to try something new that just might dominate the world in its prime unexpectedly (babymetal) (kyary) even mainstream artists like perfume and initially indie like reol all have this feel. Kpop is popular for easy appeal with stereotypical things to the public but it only exists on the surface. Jpop doesn’t market like kpop and honestly im okay with that on a personal level because kpop keeps slowly becoming more westernized and bland with these public appeal attempts and losing what makes it fun. And don’t get me wrong! Twice is actually my favorite girl group, but I’ve noticed it’s cause they have more free expression of their personality due to their popularity too. I don’t think lyrics always have to be deep and meaningful. Just cute and fun is fine and they have their own twice sound and everything. On topic of creepy fans, I just ignore them because I feel like no matter what they exist. If you are in the public it sucks like that. Eu gh. People will always sexualize/stalk no matter what precautions we take. This is a whole different broad topic. But overall, this is what I have noticed. I’m not hating. I barely have energy for that. But I’m being critical about the things I like because it is possible to do so. And I won’t stop liking it either. I like kpop and im sooo thankful for the way jpop has inspired me.

[@teenkitsune]

The only thing from idol culture that I like are the girls' costumes, so much so that I would totally dress like that regularly, everything else drives me crazy and I hope things improve for these people.

[@plutia6882]

I haven't finished the video yet but I'd like to mention alot of people consider it to be "creepy" that most of their fans are men during live shows, yet when it comes to male kpop/jpop groups which have a mainly female audience people consider it to be normal, isn't that extremely hypocritical?

[@plutia6882]

and no I'm not a middle aged man who likes jpop 😂 I'm only 16 and only really like one group (keyakizaka46) and that's mainly for their music, although I do love the members the music always comes first

[@xlectraheart]

It's just because they think the guys are pervs Sad that some people think women can't be hella creepy

[@plutia6882]

@@xlectraheart yeah true, I'm not sure about the Asian fanbase but as a part of the western jpop fandom I've never really met anyone perverted before that's a male, they just genuinely love the music and look up to the members as inspirations or some kind of motivater

[@isaacgray2909]

I think the major difference is that the fanbase around Jpop idols mostly consists of hikkomori or incels who worshiped them on a ridiculous pedestal. If they found out their favorite idol has a boyfriend, they would go ape shit as hell. I remembered when the voice actress for one of the characters in Love Live was mistaken to work as a porn actress, there were said to be a lot of fans who were mad about this that they went far to destroyed their Love Live merchandise. I recalled i stumbled upon their Japanese forums on this and it turned out extremely nasty, ranging comments "she's no longer pure!", "she's a whore", and "this is not her, she would never do this!". Like holy shit it got so ugly. I know it's not different from if a girl found out that their BTS member have a girlfriend and they would target said girlfriend with slut shaming comments. Having a fan obsessed over you is one thing and do nasty stuff, but for them to put you on an angel/whore dichotomy with misogynist tone is another (especially if it's a 40 years old man).

[@bingobongo7335]

Yeah, for example Twice has mainly male fanbase and the western part of the fandom considers it to be "creepy" for some reason. Which is stupid because firstly from what I've seen, a lot of girlgroup stans are actually GAY men. There's literally so many gay male Twice fans I've encountered, idk why but it be like that lol Secondly, even if there are a lot of straight men in the fanbase, so what? Girls drool over their male idols and somehow it's more "acceptable".

[@helpanny2604]

Wow...this actually made me cry, as someone who's making researches about idols and idol culture and how harmful it can be, especially for younger girls since an awful lot of little girls anime now are about idols and most of the time send an altered picture of how the idol industry truly is, for both trying to spread the appeal to that target audience and sell more products besides attracting them to become idols once they're teenagers, because it's always seen as a happy sugar reality with rainbows and pretty dresses, I remember a Pripara branded contest for young girls to become young idols/tarento, it's sad how such a cute and happy looking anime with magical elements could possibly lead to attract children in fame and they later see how reality truly is compared to their cute childhood anime, pretty much a plan to cash on future groups and the otaku fanbase' wallets...this actually depressed me and I feel terribly bad for those idol members that have to deal with all this bullshit and also for girls who are now in the industry because of Aikatsu and similar anime, I assume that since it's an already 6 year old series, sure there were older anime about idols but weren't nearly as common, I can truly say it as someone who literally grew up watching anime made in the 70's up until the 2000's, idol anime weren't nearly as popular as now, I can think of Creamy Mami made in the 80's, and it pretty much existed to promote a real life idol, just like LoveLive nowadays.

[@Fr00stee]

These are cartoons that are designed to sell merchandise like pokemon what do you expect

[@xXSparklingLuvXx]

it's anime it's supposed to be unrealistic dumbass

[@sweetsoul3169]

​@@Fr00steeyou completely missed the point but ok

[@panchitaperez3950]

I dunno if anyone has mentioned it here, but actually there is a mini series of vocaloid songs wrote by Mikito-P, the first song called "Sarishinohara", that tells the tale of a girl, who had this dream of becoming an idol , achieves it, and doesn't want to let go of her dream, but can't be together with her boyfriend due to her contract. it pains them deeply, though still hold and wait onto each other communicating secretly on letters. It's a really beautiful yet bittersweet song that lets you know of the struggle that idols get through on their love life! If anyone is interested you should listen to it, and then to "Yonjuunana" and "Akaito", the other two songs. You won't regret!

[@heejinkiii]

it's even more heartwreching when you realize that "sarishinohara" is based off of a true story.

[@axellrosinia9392]

@@heejinkiii yup sarishinohara is a wordplay of 'rino sashihara' and her story is just.. :'''(((((

[@redfish337]

Actual AKB song: "It's been just over a year since we started dating… None of our friends know since everyone's always together "Inside this circle, we have rules against love" They make too much of a deal about this joke of a rule I love somebody somewhere Even if I can't do so at my own convenience If it has to be let go, It's not real love This is so against the rules Isn't it lonely being single? I wanted to make it a secret If I send out a mail on my cell phone, soon nothing but love comes back Unconsciously I've been charmed, and he's become such an important person to me I only have myself to blame - feel the strings of fate! I love somebody all the time I can't stop the affection If a boy and a girl are together, There's definitely something going on A chemical reaction I love somebody somewhere Even if I can't do so at my own convenience If it has to be let go, It's not real love This is so against the rules Romance's fuse Because I have to hide it, Passion only builds up It's so likely to go off" Frankly, it's fairly likely their producer/lyricist has had personal experience in the matter, since his wife is an ex-member of one of his groups from the '80s.

[@TheRachaelLefler]

It kind of makes more sense if you think of an idol group as operating similarly to a ballet company or other dance company. They are performers. We have this idea in Western culture that music is the soul of individual musicians or bands of 3-6 people on different instruments. We're sold on this idea that the popular music we hear is written by the bands and singers performing it but it's often not. Does the idea of performing a song that you did not write cause it to be less meaningful or authentic? I don't think so. We have people performing Carmen and the music is still just as beautiful now as when it was written.

[@alize0623]

Rachael Lefler Did you ignore all the parts about abuse to the idols or did you just make an active choice to block it out?

[@WolfTitan99]

alize0623 I dont think she’s neglecting the abuse by it, shes addressing why it may feel ‘fake’ to people, as decisions are made by the company. Abuse happens in all entertainment industries, from pop music to theatre. That doesn’t excuse the abuse, and Korea is notorious for abuse in the industry, but this can be combined by Korea’s sudden rising enconomy and company culture. But it happens everywhere, and we all know that the entertainment industries are exploitative. Still, idol culture take too far is bad, and Korea treats groups like sports teams for merchandise.

[@alize0623]

WolfTitan99 They seemed to be saying the abuse should be expected because it’s their job as entertainers, that’s still how it seems even upon rereading. Maybe you’re right, though

[@bearyhoneys]

honestly, i do think that the jpop fan culture in japan is rly concerning, but i do think that the idols themselves do have better conditions than kpop idols. jpop idols look way more natural, arent forced on harsh diets (from what ive heard and seen) and arent forced to get plastic surgery and ive noticed that japanese groups (such as perfume or wind.s) stay tgt for a loong time and seem happy while doing so. i also feel like smaller groups have more musical freedom but that might just be me lmao. the jpop industry is not perfect AT ALL but its on a good way to better itself and im certain that with that the japanese (obsessive) fans will too!

[@SASHA-cn4xq]

i mean its not really a competition on which industry is worse...they're both bad and no one's doing anything to fix it :/

[@hansijawns]

It can be really really bad in Japan. An example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIq8Z3milq-tp5I

[@Octoberstorm333]

I was waiting to see a glimpse of Akina Nakamori, she changed J-Pop for female solo idols when she begun to gain control of her own music production in the late 80s. Iconic 💗

[@reiericandres]

her fushigi era

[@Octoberstorm333]

@@reiericandres yes, amazing album !!! One of my faves 🖤🖤🖤

[@candiigurl7893]

I grew up listening to Morning Musume, but after finding out about her, Seiko Matsuda has risen to be my favorite. I also recommend Junko Ohashi. She has a mature and sort od raspy sounding voice that works well with the pop/soul sound she has.

[@Juichi]

I was introduced to Japanese idols through Morning Musume. I need to listen to more Seiko Matsuda and will give Junko Ohashi a shot. My favorite so far has been Iyo Matsumoto.

[@toriisnowstorm1683]

I started with perfume, then fell in love with hello project in general

[@candiigurl7893]

@@toriisnowstorm1683 Hello Project, that brings back memories.

[@toriisnowstorm1683]

Jpop has changed. I wish berryzkobo and °C-ute would do a reunion concert, but with Momochi gone, and Risako being a mom, and Mai in the fashion industry. I know it'll never happen

[@cultured_recruit_legionary]

Ever since Philip Defranco covered that idol group a while back it really taught me how brutal the idol industry really is.

[@yungspacetowel2742]

Trump's secret Hentai stash what happened.

[@MinttMeringue]

yung space towel I think he covered or mentioned that AKB member who dated and had to shave her head and apologize

[@syahmioziar5290]

@@MinttMeringue The akb member was not told to shave her head. She do it by her own will.

[@marnie1426]

GOD idol culture is toxic and suffocating. I'm really glad that the only idols i was aware of were from the love live mobile game and a small group that came to a convention here in australia. I remember a few years ago there was this HUGE thing surrounding the idol/actress that portrayed Honoka from love live after idk there was either a rumour going around that she was in an adult video or she was dating someone but there were any videos floating around of fan breaking their merch and saying how she ruined the series for them. the root of the problem is male entitlement, and the percieved notion that these idols belong to their fans, in order to get more smelly nerds to buy their merch and fill up seats. The industry isnt really changing, but there are some groups that have sort of grown to a point where they are no longer an idol group, but are now seen as a 'real' musical talent (im so sorry i dont know how to say this in a more eloquent way). I would love to see another indepth analysis of korean idol/group culture and maybe the discussion of the subsequent feelings of resentment some kpop idols have developed for their fans. The industry should die in a fire but i guess capitalism will keep churning out these groups until the smelly nerds go back to their anime.

[@takasiromanov]

Oh yeah I do remember that, and if you're referring to Honoka's VA then you are right, and I gave up being too obsessed with the franchise as a whole, and only go back to it when I feel like it, and get this Umi's VA got caught in a shit as well when she confessed on her Twitter page that she's dating the popular NJPW wrestler Kazuchika Okada and there were many angry idol fans that got triggered by this and one of them send a death threat to the guy, and I am an Umi and Mimorin fan but was never as obsessed as these schmucks

[@takasiromanov]

Why so triggered though? Unless you're one of those most obsessed ones we're talking about

[@ShrimpGaslight]

2d idols are where its at Imo give credit to the VAs, but they are not the idols, they are only half of it.

[@marnie1426]

@@ShrimpGaslight yeah I really only like the games at this point but the vas are a proper group that perform and tour! I'm in a tough spot between supporting the 2d idols and recognising that aqours are an actual idol group. Like I really want to support the women behind my favourite characters but I don't want to contribute at all to the glorification of idol culture 😭😭

[@marnie1426]

@@takasiromanov yeah like I said to shrimp it's hard being a fan of the 2d version of idols that are created purely by a company when they churn out actors pretending to be those characters to appeal to the weirdo fans. Not to disrespect the girls though because they are amazing and try their best but really aqours is not an idol group, more like actors playing a role

[@someguywithabirdface2583]

Ironicly Zombieland Saga accurately depicted idol as zombies outside of stage and some sort of godess in eyes of otakus and young girls in stage . Man relationships is a nightmare for them.

[@someguywithabirdface2583]

And also gunvolt.

[@VoyeurTheNinja]

Gunvolt 3 when

[@someguywithabirdface2583]

@@VoyeurTheNinja forever.

[@YBPaladin]

I just don’t understand how “no-dating” rule is legal

[@aeline1932]

It's illegal in Japan since ~2015

[@siwanoXx]

This rule apply mostly to idol (and only idol groups) not on the japanse music industry in general. This idol rule is made mostly cuz in Idol groups most of them are teen and do idol things only as part time jobs when still studying in shcool.

[@OK-ns1dm]

Probably because if they are dating , there will be gossip about them and the image of the agency become bad.

[@plutia6882]

As an idol group fan I am not ready for this video

[@TatsuyaWow]

i am idol fan i respect his opinion it still dosent change the fact that there music is awesome and unique.

[@sealbe1885]

May you please make a Smash Fandom video, please?

[@wolfboy20]

This!!

[@XxX_afterHours_XxX]

Is the smash community that bad? I mean for glory is full of salt but, COME ON!

[@raphaelmarquez9650]

+AcousticAquarius Oh it gets worse than that ever since the November Direct.

[@DCNRS90YT]

@@raphaelmarquez9650 Oh no.

[@VelvetKitsune]

​@@XxX_afterHours_XxX Well, most notable are the split between the fans of the individual games, with some even outright despising anyone who prefers the other games. Yikes.

[@greenlanternneco-arc2863]

My favorite idol group is Judas priest they are just the cutest girls like their classic painkiller

[@rickwagner-]

+Damien Moon Judas Priest are working on changing their purely Idol image though. They have a legit metal group like BABYMETAL opening for them in Singapore next month (December 4th, 2018).

[@greenlanternneco-arc2863]

@@rickwagner- really I hope that afterwards they won't go full metal there idol work is so good and Babymetal is pretty much death metal so I hope I goes well.

[@shadows-sweet-embrace]

My favorite idol group is TOOL, Danny is sooooooo cute~!

[@greenlanternneco-arc2863]

@@shadows-sweet-embrace yeah he is but Rob is the cutest

[@toolongtowrite7549]

"Classic Painkiller"? What does that mean?

[@testaMMent]

Ladybeard actually has a new idol group called Deadlift Lolita, made by him and another wrestler!! Ladybaby will no longer work together but its important to mention the new group!!

[@chiamrandall8188]

So when are we getting into Stan culture?

[@boergerplays8353]

What's that explain please need you to explain

[@chiamrandall8188]

Boerger plays Pretty much idol culture but westernized. I just want to hear monger say skinny.

[@danielan3936]

Stan culture is never as bad as this tbh it’s just western version just tossing around twitter drama mostly but never ever was anyone this obsessive

[@mondaysformatcha]

Gay stan twitter is worse 💀💀

[@redfish337]

10:30 Morning Musume were extremely popular... they made a big splash, but once they died down, idol culture was about as dead as ever through the mid-2000s. And I'll dispute 16:53 as well. Those are the big 3 groups, but really only H!P is a product of the past. After AKB was founded they started to make it big BECAUSE they were different. The songs weren't typical idol fare- they started a new era that only seems old because of how far other groups have come (and that the edgy stuff is given to Keyaki now). The same can be said of Momoclo, which has lots of rock songs and I think has been much more influential in the current trend toward rock sounds in the idol underground than much more niche BABYMETAL was.

[@nonamenoname9352]

Idol culture has a lot in common with boy/girl band.

[@MinttMeringue]

naraku 578 Yeah, it does. Except most people in the west hate boy and girl groups. It's seen as worse music. Only NSync and the Spice Girls really lived through it, and that's because all of them became celebrities in their own right

[@creativename24601]

and this is why all the idols i support are either from anime or vocaloid. the real-life industry makes me sick.

[@im_sorry_i_forgot_my_username]

lmao my dude, as if Love Live idols weren't IRL idols as well. They do IRL concerts too, you know

[@ElegeantFencer]

Idol culture is actually starting to improve. I think the fans are realizing how far they're pushing the idols too much to become overworked and stressed.

[@amirazahirah9717]

OMG, JKT48! The first generation leader, Melody, recently married (or tell the public, she will married soon, I don't know much about it) after years "graduated" from the group. And when her graduation...a lot of cringy footage of people (or fans) crying and screaming because she leaving the group...and now her married date know as "Heartbreaking of Forever Alone National date No.2" (there this top female singer that married too before and known as the No.1)

[@idolsrule4678]

Amira Zahirah wasn’t the second one Stella Cornelia? I was really happy when both weddings happened. XD unfortunately not all accept the good news... :x

[@peetoeto1716]

I was one of them. Let's have a discussion

[@Freaking_Rat]

Bringing up old babymetal and old ladybaby makes this whole thing seem really out of touch. Talking about subversion of traditional idol and not bringing up anything from the alt Idol area of the industry is also a little odd.

[@sjrich408]

Rat are you saying that you feel like there’s bias in this video? I feel like there is.

[@ymotechnopopfan]

Idols of the 1970s and 80s: 0:55-1:48 The Candies 2:16 Pink Lady 2:24 Momoe Yamaguchi 2:58 Japan in the 1970s 10:11 Ikue Sakakibara (also an 80s idol) 4:12 Bubble Era (1980s) 4:49 - 4:50 Onyanko Club 5:23 Rie hatada? 5:54 Yuki Kudou 6:17-6:26 Yui Asaka 8:19 Junko Tokumaru? 9:14 Yuko Nito 9:26 Risa Honda 9:54 Kaori Sakagami 10:01 Warabe 10:10 and lastly, Akina nakamori!!

[@gabrielmillien7439]

16:30 Matsuda seiko

[@ymotechnopopfan]

@@gabrielmillien7439 oh i didn't see her. Thanks.

[@gabrielmillien7439]

@@ymotechnopopfan You are welcome

[@semnextdoor5138]

I feel bad for Miichan (Minami Minegishi) because whenever someone makes a video about Idols, and they mention the “no dating”-rule, she’s basically the prime example. Even in a video about K-Pop idols only, she was mentioned. Of course, it’s the most well known case of an AKB idol breaking that rule, but there were so many more instances. There are a few documentaries on AKB, and in almost every documentary, there’s always a case of a girl breaking the rule. They’re usually forced to graduate from AKB (aka they have to leave), or are being degraded to an Kenkyusei/Understudy and have to work their way up again, which is what happened to Miichan. Other than that, great video! I learned a lot about idols from the past and about how it all came to be. Keep up the good work!

[@greatdaein6699]

If love live isn’t mentioned here I’m gonna be sad

[@xlectraheart]

Viper_Incarnate mood

[@greatdaein6699]

I’m very sad

[@xaldrortenderofthevats8948]

Prepare to Cry

[@emmemttc]

Idol master is better. (Jk I like both)

[@sophiedagostino3989]

Viper_Incarnate he did a virtual band video too, and he mentioned off the hook but STILL no love live. Sad.

[@364Leinad]

I've always admired the fact that Jpop is up front about its idol system. You know what you're getting into with the crazy fans and creepy companies. It's one element that makes it better than Kpop, which constantly tries to pull a veil of fans' eyes and tries to convince them everything is wonderful. Kpop idols suffer so much more than jpop idols imo and its because people expect nothing less of them than absolute perfection.

[@thequiz2809]

Why do you even like either? Just don't listen to both of them.

[@sera48g]

​@@thequiz2809because the music is good

[@Rita-kx3yr]

I'm simultaneously excited to see a rather balanced depiction of idol culture from a western non-fan perspective, but I'm also extremely giddy because I'm pretty sure you had a clip of Momoiro Clover and I've loved them since before they sang the op for SailorMoon Crystal and got more popular! Often times, I've seen western explorations ignore the improvements or seemingly solely focus on the simultaneous infantilism and sexualization of female idols. You actually went and did the research from its origins to now! And you actually talked a bit about male idols, and the idol culture connection to the Japanese economy (I swear I've seen some jokes connecting japn econ w/anime somewhere). As much as I love listening to the dark side of fandoms, I really love this video! Idol culture is not just a fandom, but an issue which is the result of industry developed manipulation of both idols and fans. I learned so much! Thank you so much for the hard work, editing, and research that went into this video! Please teach us more! But also take good care of yourself! Great Video!!! -R(in)

[@brownriceandchicken95]

Rita Momoiro Clover😍😍😍 I love them!!!@

[@MaxusFox23]

There's one practice from back in the day surrounding idols that I still try to wrap my head around: *Crane games with idols' used panties.* I dunno if their own agencies were the ones who made that a thing, but luckily it was pretty much banned during the late 90s. However it baffles me that the ban was due to sanitary reasons rather than moral ones...

[@Shremls]

Kinda weird how with idols you really don't know their songs or albums only them as a person as anyone could think or remember a song from a plethora of other genres

[@xaldrortenderofthevats8948]

meanwhile doujin circles and their artists are almost known solely for their art, and in the case of Akatsuki Records and A-One, not a bad way to go.

[@something6510]

Another interesting vid sort of touching on this topic is 'The Late Capitalism of Kpop'. As much as I enjoy the music, it really opened my eyes.

[@MinttMeringue]

Some Thing Ahhh, I loved that video! Well researched videos like that and this, that aren't just fan's bias, are so good.

[@something6510]

@@MinttMeringue you could tell he put a lot of research and facts into it, which I found refreshing. It genuinely left me in kind of a numb state after watching it, I'd never looked at things like that before. Plus I'll give the guy publicity when and where I can, hard work should be appreciated!

[@emitheorbit1118]

I'm just gonna leave this here and leave kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJ-TmKCrlNJgpdU

[@bekak5183]

While this is accurate, it's kind of a negative take on idol culture. I've been pretty heavily involved in idol culture for about 15 years (my fav group is Morning Musume), met the Wota (what idol otaku call themselves), been to concerts, met the girls and have done handshake events. There are A LOT of female Wota too, me being one of them, they aren't just selling to men anymore. I've always had pretty positive experiences being surrounded by idol culture. It's not as creepy as people make it out to be.

[@BreannaBaozi]

I was around when Minami Chan shaved her head and apologized to all of us for “dating”. And while many of my male friends who like AKB criticized her and wished she would be kicked out... she became my favorite member. I didn’t have a favorite at the time since I had just gotten into them a year or two before that happened. And when the scandal happened, I instantly loved her. I think it’s because she let her guard down and actually was being a human, not really the scandal itself. Even though she shaved her head and she got demoted because of what she did, she’s human and it’s natural to want to be with someone. Even though she broke her contract, it showed me that there was a dark side of idol culture that I didn’t know existed. And because she showed all of us that dark side, she became my favorite. I think I’m a bit gentle on her and other female idols because we’re girls and it’s supposed to be dirty to act that way, even though it really isn’t. She’s still my favorite member to this day and I support her with everything she does. I love Minami and AKB and they are amazing.

[@sp4cegrl27]

she's my favorite member too! it's crazy she'll be graduating soon, she deserves the world and i hope her career flourishes!

[@zacheryjequinto7259]

AKB48 debuted in 2005. AKB48 had not that many members when it debuted. It has a graduation system, so when old members leave the new members come in. Handshake events are really safe, you get 10 seconds with them and that was the only time something bad has happened. Scandals are not that uncommon, we have stuff like that here in the US with "news" organizations like TMZ here. Scandals can help or hurt your popularity. Minegishi Minami's hurt because international attention hurt the group and it left a sour taste on fans and the public.

[@_chococat_]

I’m so glad you mentioned Babymetal and Ladybaby!! They’re my favorites and the counterculture of idols always tends to get overlooked

[@BoucheronsNo.1Fan]

Nice video! I wrote many college essays on idol culture and you covered it really well! The only thing I'd like to add is that through my research I found the group Momoiro Clover Z that you showed a few pictures of throughout the presentation really is what started the shift in idol culture. They came up as a kind of direct counter to AKB48, and were the first group who directly challenged them and ended up gaining massive popularity! I could go into further detail as to what sets them apart from the traditional idol if your interested!

[@Aminadujean]

Hey so I appreciate this informative idol but as someone who was actually an idol in Japan, speaks Japanese and has a been a fan of it for nearly 15 years now I feel like the industry is far more nuanced. For one, Love ban law(anti dating rules) doesn’t exist. The only contractual stipulation is that the company can control the idol’s image which usually extends to not taking photos with men as the most extreme rule. The Tokyo high courts has ruled that they can’t ban dating as it’s against human rights. Also, most modern idols aren’t in AKB or a big group but rather smaller independent groups. These aren’t perfect but are usually ran more ethically.

[@VlogDoPajamas]

i'm big fan of a 90's kpop group, in the 90's fans camped outside their houses and waited for them to come out, some fans even ended up invading their houses, the fans also would stalk them everywhere, there's a story about a girl who grabbed the back of their van and stayed there until they noticed her by the window it was really creepy. The company was also trash they lied about their sales so that they could keep their money, the conditions were also terrible the guys would have full schedules only sleeping 3 hours a day and still having to go to school, once a member got sick for not eating well and fainted, after waking up at the hospital he went directly to schedule and there's many many more stuff, idol culture is really creepy.

[@frillcovenant]

being an idol isnt really about age, sure theyre supposed to appear younger, but the first few idols were older. It's more like a lifestyle. People you can look up to.

[@doodlebugfour7070]

Video on the Seiyuu Fandom when?

[@aliceplays9921]

Doodlebug Four that’s just voice porn sis

[@Aaron-ch7lb]

I feel like I'm the only one who watched akb0048

[@Aaron-ch7lb]

@@alexzisedwards7283 exactly

[@semnextdoor5138]

You’re not! 0048 is such an underrated idol anime. Sadly, it’s being overshadowed by Love Live and whatnot.

[@semnextdoor5138]

Sugar Ants Yeah that’s true, but it’s still worth a watch! It’s only 26 episodes (13 per season), and if you’re already familiar with AKB (mostly the “Golden Area” members, like Takamina, Yuuko, Miichan, Acchan etc) then you already have half the cast down

[@iprobablydislikeyou2735]

Tropical I did but dropped it at the 3th episode

[@pastelhotmess9299]

I love it too. ALTHOUGH i need to get back on it

[@esthervolkening3568]

I find it most disturbing that this video treats the industry as one sentinent being rather than different agencies applying very different work conditions, payment and regulations.

[@redfish337]

And that said, while they protect their image and don't want scandals, AKB isn't very strict at all. They don't need everybody every day. They don't need everybody to do everything. Even their biggest event, the general election, is opt in.

[@karlaa.8288]

@@redfish337 even back in their unknown days, they dated a LOT, it was like an know secret, its jsut that they didn't care lolol, only populars members are treated as if they were "pure" angels, but it's mostly by the popular public, you can be sure their most extremes fans know about their relationships and don't care while they don't break that angel image for the rest and idk, get into an scandal with media or publicly talk about their relationships and brag about it. I hate how they use a movie like perfect blue as an example, it's like they throwing away everything about the protagonist and her problems and just focus on that crazy fan :/

[@donavonhoho]

"stabbed 34 times" - damn, she dead - "and still survived" wut?

[@namjoonismypresident6936]

I don’t see anything wrong with liking idols or anything, if only you’re critical and not acting creepy. I myself am a huge fangirl, but I also admit the flaws of idol culture and also won’t go around and harass people or idols for it. I just like to listen to the music, buy albums, save photos. But won’t be a dick about it.

[@AngelicMilkyYT]

Me too, even I can agree with the bad stuff I still love jpop and idols tho

[@sugiyuuchan]

The 70’s jpop idol were and still are a legend in Japan. Of course Momoe Yamaguchi and the Candies, but also the Pink Lady, Sakurada Junko, Mori Masako, and more...

[@r.c.beringuela2426]

I was a die hard fan of Mari Yaguchi back in the golden age of Morning Musume in the 90's and my respect for her grew when I learned that she left the idol group to pursue a relationship with her boyfriend at that time. Not many girls will willingly leave the idol career for a guy. This is a great video! Subbed.

[@narudayo5053]

The problem with the Akb48 is that they are also "product" object like was they was from anime fictionnal characters. There is a bunch of related project like akb0048, akb games, manga, etc. One of these is Akb49 who is really good. It's about a guy who is in love with his girl friend who want to become an idol, he wants to support her but by some accidents he ends up crossdressing as a blond girl to being an idol like her. It's really funny, you learn a bit more about the akb industry and they even talk about the Minami accident.

[@stephaniemoura8354]

Man, your video is truly amazing. I'm doing a research about japanese idols for my podcast and wanted to find a good video to recommend to the audience (and not simply present them a list of overly detailed and interesting articles), and your video was the first one that appeared. Seriously, what an amoount of time this video probably have taken to be done.

[@redfish337]

I don't know why you think it's so good. Maybe if he started from nothing, there may have been a lot of time spent. It's been a long time since I watched in full, but IIRC, I see two main issues with the video. First, it conflates all of an industry that has basically crashed twice since the '80s and spends a lot of time talking about the old idol system. That's historical, but long gone. Sure, some of the same problems creep up in new ways, but considering it's a crashed industry, I kind of think of it like discussing Atari in the context of the problems of modern gaming. Yeah, there's some historical background there, but shouldn't you focus on modern issues? And when it comes to modern issues it seems like a bit of a hit job. For example, why does it mention Mayu Tomita? She's not an idol. She's a singer-songwriter. It's not related to the idol industry... it's kind of in a way a counter example... crazy obsessed fans will obsess over anyone. In an effort to find the most sensational material he went out of bounds.

[@plasticbag9729]

I can’t believe Yukiko Okada wasn’t included

[@roseliadevoted3911]

M Lofts OMG YOUR PFP. I love You Watanabe so much, my favorite Aqours member tbh. I see you are one of culture :)

[@aliceplays9921]

mocashoe my guy what

[@roseliadevoted3911]

AlicePlays got a little excited >.< their profile pic is You Watanabe from Love Live and she is my favorite

[@reiericandres]

seiko matsuda nowhere to be found😭😭😭

[@kfk4441]

Oh man I want this dude to talk about Vtubers someday

[@la5369]

Not all fans are fanatic and obsessed "otakus", some fans like me and others support our idols because they inspire us and we want them to reach their dreams. There's a creepy and disgusting side of the idol culture but there's also a bright side to it.

[@nezzy4645]

What I realised is that because idols are so young when they join a group, I mainly speak of female idols, it’s kind of a part time job. When they graduate high school they also ‘graduate’ from the group hence its like quitting a part time job.

[@redfish337]

While many do graduate then, most don't. And in fact a lot of more indie groups that don't want to deal with curfew laws tend to recruit 18+. Indie scene seems to roll more 18-25, with some upwards of 30 if they've been in groups for a while. ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAMING_MONSTER ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predia

[@97mizuno]

Me: God, The Rpg Monger hasn't uploaded in a while... The Rpg Monger: *uploads video* Me: ...until now, that is! *clicks video*

[@crudlucasconsigliere4084]

I'm still a big idol fan despite all the controversy. The groups I stan have allowed members to take mental health hiatuses, so I don't feel bad about stanning. Also, forget the youngest being 8; C°-ute member Mai Hagiwara who was selected for the group at 6! And stayes in the industry until she was 21!

[@toriisnowstorm1683]

Shums true. But I thought she was 7 when she was accepted

[@Maestro_Gear]

Why am I familiar with so much of this. The most I've delved into idol culture is an Alternate Universe Fanfiction with an Idol premise.

[@RandomQuestNPC]

Wasn't there one of them otaku who actually married Hatsune Miku? Honestly, I'm appalled by the level of madness this fanbase is capable of.

[@angelicav346]

Yes, a guy married a Miku doll.

[@otaku4life697]

hgfhhgfgh I'm neutral on the subject but like.. bowsette is your icon dude you can't say shit!

[@tombrady1434]

the first time I saw your series on fandom I thought "there ought to be an episode about idol fandoms, because those are twisted". I like the "buy a cd to get a chance to meet your fav idol" resulting in fans buying ridiculous amounts of cds (up to 300 000$ worth in one well-known case) then dumping everything right after. Also the Love Live fans are a pretty... interesting bunch. I suggest looking them up if you haven't yet

[@MinttMeringue]

tom Brady yeah I've heard of people spending almost 2k to get into a meetup Like what? I know you're an adult with control over your money but maybe think that over boy-o

[@thequiz2809]

@@MinttMeringue Let them spend their money however they want stupid cupcake.

[@iaminevitable7221]

I've always felt like there was something so mechanical about how Japan's idol culture works just like their work culture. I am always reminded of Perfect Blue any time anyone mentions idols.

[@11YoPEEPS]

...anyways stan Morning Musume and Angerme

[@BlissfullyTired]

I really like J-pop and I want to becoming a idol and make a group when I get older. But after watching this I'm really debating right now.

[@teenkitsune]

You could be an indie idol and create your own humanitarian rules. Just a thought.

[@MinttMeringue]

Then just do a group online on KZbin and such, indie style. I wouldn't recommend going over to Japan and becoming an idol, honestly, even if it's getting safer. Even foreign-born Japanese idols don't really seem to be a thing.

[@0neyetmany-0]

same, I used to want to become a japanese idol but then I realized how fked up it is then I decided to aspire to be just a normal japanese artist and not an idol.. idk if it makes sense but yeahh.. xD

[@ukiyasenpai]

But Arashi and SMAP started their careers in their teenage years...

[@alphaomeganova9629]

even in the 80s, some fans could be extremely obsessive. such as the situation with okada yukiko, after she commit suicide in 1986 it spawned copycat suicides and was given the term 'yukko syndrome'.

[@kieranmclaughlin264]

Such a mysterious and terrifying world, idols.....

[@SkipRogersJr]

This video makes me so sad. I have not seen a single popular video about Japanese Idols that is by a person who actually is from idol culture. Most of these videos from non idol wota and essentially boil down to idols are sick and perverse because of: (1) the non-dating rule; (2) 48-group marketing practices; (3) mii-chan shaving her head; and (4) maybe perfect blue if they are anime wota. There is a lot of things that are screwed up with the idol industry,. Some of which are actually discussed in this video. I could talk about many more that were not mentioned in this video. But at the same time, the idol industry is, at the end of the day, similar to the rest of the music industry in japan specifically and in the west in general. Most of idol culture is in lock step with other areas of japanese culture, such as chanting / ouendan: like at baseball games, being obsessed with actors: like the takarazuka troupes, talents not making money because they have little talents outside being cute (Talent as in タレント, not a talented person), overworking employees: like salarymen at Japanese corporations, and the merchandising of the anime industry in general (think gundam figurines and clothing). At the end of the day, this video does very little to actually educate people about idols or idol culture. It just told people that "idol culture is bad because idols can't date" with no further context. Many "cultures" have f-d up aspects, don't rag on idol culture like all other japanese and western sub-cultures are A-okay. You had video of (but no discussion of) great historical idols like Pink Lady and Nakamori Akina, but missed so many other super influential idols. You largely focused on Aki-Pig (Yasushi Akimoto) and his hyper-sexualized onyako club and 48-group madness (although he is not the only or the first idol producer who hyper-sexualizes his idols). The video also greatly simplified the legacy of Morning Musume (you spoke of the bursting of the bubble economy, but not what the economy was like 10-15 years after it when Musume was at the apex of their popularity). You did not even talk about the live nature of idol groups particularly akb-48 and their cross connection with not just idol otaku, but anime and game otaku (they are in akihabara after all) and the similar marketing techniques used on said groups of people. Which is a whole other level of exploitation. Aki-pig and his handshake marketing events sullied the idol industry in a way that was irreparable. And notably left out of the conversation was the idolm@ster video game series. We still are not out of the idol warring period and who knows how the idol industry will end up. But I'm just saddened that you did not use your opportunity to properly educate people about the idol culture from a neutral position.

[@YARGGG_GG]

that industry needs a change, i think. to some extent, i think it can be harmless for people to obsess over idols a little bit but it goes way too far. i think there should start to be a clear separation between the idol as a character (which is what they become due to all the contracts) and the idol as the actress playing the character (whose personal life shouldn't be anyone's damn business).

[@run2cat4run]

That’s why I can never get into K pop or Japanese idols knowing how awful they get treated.

[@BlackCroft666]

You should ignore westernmovie industry and western music companies, too.

[@run2cat4run]

BlackCroft666LP why?

[@lar-alilith-4947]

Aily Veen Hollywood is known for having a bunch of sexual assault stories, and western music companies too. Do you knew that Lady Gaga was raped at the age of 19 by a music producer? Don't get me wrong, the Idol Industry is chaotic, but western industry is not all about glam.

[@lildaffy1695]

I remember the Kesha had the same fate 6 or 5 years ago. Thats why she didnt have a $ on her name anymore.

[@yuliyy__]

Try Love Live.

[@nikkorin]

It's not entirely true there is no job for idols. A lot of idols actually go to university and persue careers outside the entretainment industry. A lot of idols who are now in their late twenties and graduated or graduating, aren't actually working as entretainers anymore. Some even leave for the especific reason of becoming private citizens again. The problem is when agencies push their idols to become only that, and if they fail, they don't have anywhere to fall, but I don't know any agency that does that. Even AKB48 members have gone into other stuff and did uni at the same time as their job. I guess it is the same as for everyone else who is not an idol, one needs to look at the future the same way and prepare for graduation, and going into what you wanna do in life. As for contract breaks, yeah, I don't agree with the akiba crowd and the dating ban at all, but if they break their contracts, depending on their age, it can be bad. Ex-Kobushi Factory Rena Ogawa was fires because not only did she have a boyfriend, but she pretended to be sick just to go on dates, and that is way more serious. She didn't even take a year to get pregnat, so she wasn't very responsable, and deserved to ger fired. At the same time, her groupmate got outed as well, and she apparently left on her own, but on her case it was more unfair, cause she didn't break any other rules. Juice=Juice starred in a drama called Budoukan, about a junior idol group grinding to make it, and the take several shots at the industry and heavily critizice the dating ban, bodyshaming of teen girls, how only being an idol doesn't prepare you for success, and a lot of other things, and all from the perspective of an idol group who is actually an idol group IRL, produced by an idol agency, so I recommend it if you are intrested in the topic (and can get past bad acting)

[@saltyparabolas9561]

Yeah there is “no job” for them if they don’t plan or seek anything but being an idol or being a different kind of singer. Those who enter the industry usually seem to be aware of this. When a group I liked had a member leave to go have a baby, one of the members immediately went out and sought different types of work, in case the group never got back together. And of course, the queen, Namie Amuro, said she knew from when she was little “There is debut, then there is retirement”. So there seems to definitely be an awareness that this type of job is not permanent.

[@jocelynt.7976]

Me: *waiting to at least see a clip of Love Live!, BanG dream! Or 22/7* *Video ends* Me: Understandable, have a nice day.

[@shouvikdey8701]

So jpop idols in 60s and 70s = Kpop idols now

[@hoshinojavi]

Exactly.

[@angelicav346]

Yes

[@mibukdesjarlais534]

And that's just proof right there that J-Pop will always be the GOAT and superior to K-Pop.💜

[@Scarshadow666]

Part of me wonders about how idol culture can be compared to other situations/phenomena with other cultures (both historical and social psychology-wise). It makes me wish that some studies in social psychology were more prevalent or brought to more awareness so that we can better understand why someone gravitates towards interests, like pop idol culture. Things like this have elements of groupthink dynamics to it (not something that is all bad, we as a species are built to gravitate toward people of similar interests to us, and for good, bad, and in-between our brains are sometimes built for group dynamics) along with various other social-psychological things going on that help explain the pop idol industry.

[@redfish337]

It's hard to get anywhere because pretty much anyone who would make a study on something like this has strong bias one way or the other. Also, it tends to look at things overly broadly. For example, while mainstream people recognize the difference between a horror movie and an action movie, video games often get lumped together as if WoW is the same as Candy Crush is the same as GTA is the same as Madden. This is decreasing as video games gain more mainstream approval, but it still lags behind movies in terms of recognition of genres. And genres are an even bigger deal in video games! Similarly, idol culture is pretty broad and pretty much parallels the whole spectrum of "regular" music at this point and nothing really applies across the board- but is often all lumped together as one genre. And pre-'90s idol culture that this video spends so much time on should basically be considered a different topic. J-pop wasn't even a thing yet, and the whole idol industry crashed around that same time. So videos about idols paint it as a certain group of fans- but actually each group has a certain sort of fan base. And that means motivations will be extremely varied from one group's fans to the next.

[@Scarshadow666]

@@redfish337 Very true! It's similar with studying various other subgroups within cultures, belief systems, languages, etc. There's so much to learn about! ^^

[@Petiteyeon]

Okay, let me start with the Minami thing. To clear it off (and I have been doing that for so many fucking years now), the management team didn't make her shave her head and record the video, she explicity said that was her own idea. We know it's true because that's not how things usually go in these cases with AKB or any other Idol group out there. Also, the "no dating rule" thing isn't the same with every group and has been losing its relevance throughout the years. In the past, it was a huge scandal whenever an Idol was caught dating, they were forced to leave and all that stuff. But it has been different recently. In some groups in specific, such as the Hello!Project ones (Morning Musume is under it) it's not that you can't date, it's more of a "don't let that shit out in the open" thing. Unless they do something extremely stupid, they'll be like "yep, sorry, guys" and then nothing happens. Another thing, as you usually say in other videos, not every fan is a creepy looking dude like in Perfect Blue, so shaming people for liking Idols is a no-no. Just like with K-pop, not every fan is a creepy Sasaeng or a Koreaboo, and we're all very aware of how dirty and disgusting both of these industries can be. However, it is changing, and as for the international fanbases, we're all for it.

[@ricardodeleon3041]

Shaming is always negative but ignoring the facts around the industry is also a big no no, first and foremost even if they are allowed to date in secrete that is still a life control situation while much less harsh advocating for opression gives anyone a justification to attack your ideals, also and wow thats a big lie when you say it's just put under the rug when an Idol is discovered acting like any human would, there are are letters with personal attacks and dead threats, raging fans, sometimes even corporate punishment, so saying nothing happens is a big understatement, and the Idol corporation are still the same so no matter the change the inner intention is what matters, which is to sell an image of a fantastic being to the public made by stereotypes and toxic interpretations of what is perfection which of course affects the physicological aspects of anyone in it, draining the idols, making the fans follow unrealistic standards and expectation and creating a cult like group, which goes to my third point, the fandom is by mayority on an extremist ideal defending any form of the idol industry, ignoring the problems and even defendic the toxic mentality that is created, that is when united, rips on the fandom cause agression, extremism and makes people act as animalistic as in politics, the worst being politics atleast affect the everyday life while a strangers opinion on certain Idols are irrelevant to any form of life. And did I mention the Hollywoodesque pandering and balant sexualisation thar created unrealistic standars on people and help create and pander to many of the scummiest type of people in the world? No? Oh I guess the incel world and pedophilia and cult like adoration is tottaly 100% extinct and the general industry doesn't pander to them and recognises it daily battlig tooth and nail to eradicate the toxic ideologies.

[@ricardodeleon3041]

@@alexzisedwards7283 Minorital selection thats like saying just becouse gay pop stars we given more respect in the late 90's the industry was no longer a homophobic mess

[@Petiteyeon]

​@@ricardodeleon3041 Okay. First, chill. Second, punctuation. Third, as I have stated, and you just seemed to ignore, INTERNATIONAL FANBASES KNOW VERY WELL THAT THE INDUSTRY IS SHIT (and by being shit, I also meant all that other stuff you said are problematic too, IT IS KNOWN) AND WE DON'T SUPPORT IT. Acknowledging changes isn't saying it's all fun and games now, I was just pointing it out that (and I'm going to repeat myself again since you apparently haven't read it well) EVERY COMPANY AND GROUP WORKS DIFFERENTLY. Yes, those horrible and toxic issues still continue to happen to a lot of them, but not all. About it being put under the rug, I said it because I've been in the fandom long enough and have seen it happen multiple times. So I know what I'm talking about here, thank you very much. No one is ignoring the nasty side of this industry, we're just broughting light to the fact that it is getting better and that people who are fans of Idols are not all disgusting pedophiles who support this mess of a business. And this whole text is absolutely pointless because I'm just repeating what I've said earlier, can't you read? Omg

[@YoudonGettit]

​In this moral issue there are two choices : either you wait for scandals to happen to protest and you let more young women and men fall victim to this industry until their blood is all over your collective hands and laws are slowly passed to stop the worst of the abuse while still allowing the industry itself to continue to exist and the pigs who fed on it to stay unpunished, or you quit it now. Stop giving money to these pigs (who don't even pay these young people a tenth of their worth) and let the industry either adapt or die on itself. But I guess it's a pretty hard choice to make when you really love the content (but hey, knowing almost nothing of what you give them will actually end up in idols pocket you might as well hack everything).

[@DoubleAmaterasu]

true

[@joshuaso627]

Love that Mother 3 music in the background!