Taking a Page From the Wrong Book | Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam Retrospective

Alphadream created one of the most creative and interesting worlds within the Mario universe four games in a row, but that streak came to an end when trying to combine Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario. Did the spectre of Sticker Star completely destroy what Alphadream had built, or are there still some diamonds to find in the rough?
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[@krooga_]

its so weird that they didn't have a gimmick where you jump into the pages of a book. the past 2 games in the series revolved around a 3d main world and 2d sub worlds and that would've fit paper jam perfectly

[@theeternalsuperstar3773]

According to some interviews Paper Jam WAS originally gonna' have all 3 bros traversing through the paper and Mario & Luigi worlds.

[@voiky752]

​​@@theeternalsuperstar3773 i think that the only reason they didn't add paper luigi is that you have too many hitboxes and pretty much too op in fight too and, i think they didn't want the running button as another thing also i think the game was just non-canon to any of the paper mario series or M&L. Goddamn it this doesn't fit with the discussion in this reply section but oh well

[@xreamed]

​@@voiky752 IIRC, AlphaDream wanted to do a game with three characters, and Paper Mario was who they decided on as the third member

[@bartzacky9639]

@@xreamedAnd remember that Paper Luigi was considered to be playable early on but ultimately scrapped it because they felt that controlling 4 characters with 4 buttons would be too complicated in-between.

[@buzzytrombone4353]

@@bartzacky9639 They still should have made him a CPU partner as a reuse of the idea of Party Members from the first two Paper Mario games since they already did it with Nabbit.

[@currololol371]

Fun fact: The "Mario world characters" are 2D sprites and the "Paper world characters" are all 3D sprites lmao

[@voiky752]

This is the 4th time i've seen this

[@Exosphere2.0]

​@@voiky752 Same, anything to do with this game will have this "Fun Fact"

[@SnakeNamedJake]

Did you get this fact from Shyguymask's "Can you beat Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam without dodging?"

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

51:55. Guess what? Brothership was announced over a week ago during the recent Direct. (Right at the start of the Direct, in fact.)

[@whacka2871]

What bothers me the most about the quality of this game is how much potential a concept like this had, only for the developers to just fill it with basic characters and have all the paper characters just be the same as the versions in the mario and luigi universe

[@MrLegendofLP]

Yeah this game is just the *biggest* missed opportunity. No original characters from either series are featured, no original antagonist, no bringing back classic antagonists from both series to feed into the crossover concept. Just… no creativity in the characters or the story. It’s such a shame.

[@iantaakalla8180]

Even Kersti would have been fine to bring back if only because it demonstrates that the Paper Mario world and the Mario and Luigi world are meaningfully different. She could be paired up with Stuffwell, the most annoying sidekick in the Mario and Luigi series.

[@GoodlyData86596]

Honestly the biggest missed opportunity that you have mentioned was the paper character being reduced to essentially being the cardboard cutouts of the Mario and Luigi versions of the characters. They could have highlighted the differences in how the two series approached the characters/story and gameplay instead of having none of the former and quarter assing the later.

[@pixel6727]

Honestly I kind of liked the fact that they only did traditional Mario characters because all of the other Mario & Luigi games had lots of unique characters and different areas. So i honestly kind of think it was nice to see just some original Mario goodness in a Mario & Luigi game for a change. However, that being said it was still probably a missed opportunity since what the whole gimmick of the game was supposed to be

[@MyNaymIsSnek1526]

I ruined the 69 likesss.

[@Zastralord]

This game is so unbelievably hard carried by its battle system, they put so much creativity into how enemy attacks work. I wish the minigames and Toad stuff were less common or changed entirely because they tamper with the pacing so hard. For as disappointing as the crossover execution was, this could've been a game just coasting on its gameplay if they cut down on the filler.

[@theuberedredspy8791]

Something that gets me about the potential of this crossover is how many obvious parallels they missed. For example, the first game's final boss is Bowser but with a twist, the second game's is a villain who resembles Peach who controls a unique species of alien invaders, and the third game's is a lackey-turned-mastermind who changes form and becomes stronger by taking the power of a main series character, this form being the final fight. This is genuinely such a simple thing that I'm genuinely FLABBERGASTED they didn't at the absolute LEAST talk about it. That's not even mentioning the obvious potential of things like the X-Nauts fighting the Shroobs.

[@MrLegendofLP]

I… oh my god I never realized those crossovers. That’s so cool but such a disappointing addition to the reasons this game is a massive missed opportunity.

[@Robin280497]

Meanwhile, both their 4th game's final boss is a Shiny Bowser. XD

[@iantaakalla8180]

And furthermore, said Shiny Bowsers are said to have unimaginable power and are a return to boss fights earlier in the Mario franchise; Bowser in Dream Team is basically the villain like in any non-RPG game before it, and Bowser in Sticker Star rips off what 64 did.

[@PresumptuousPopplio]

Honestly I don't think Paper Jam ever really COULD'VE been the kind of big-scale epic crossover most people wanted it to be due to the circumstances of its development. AlphaDream poured so much time and money into Dream Team that not even a pretty respectable 2.6 million sales helped them break even, if even that. The following M&L was effectively locked to being a budget title from the outset. This is especially apparent given that every single paper character sprite is ripped DIRECTLY from Sticker Star. The majority of them even have the same sheet structure on Spriter's Resource (though Paper Jam does have a few expansions). They never really could've done anything interesting with it since Sticker Star is Sticker Star.

[@Magic_Ice]

I was going to say the same thing. With how massive Dream Team was it makes sense how much Paper Jam reuses from Dream Team and Sticker Star

[@meloelebi1996]

Yeah after Alpha Dream's bankruptcy caused my question of "Why would they remake BIS like this unless they were really desperate for quick cash... but for what?" It became very likely Paper Jam's was using Dream Team and Sticker Star assets as a base to save money. It also makes sense to skip Partners in Time since the game would require far more unique assets due to its differences and the Shroob mutations.

[@bartzacky9639]

@@meloelebi1996The Shroob sprites in BIS 3DS were made for that game and you can see in the background during the shroob battle that they have made PIT sprites for a potential Partners remake before BIS 3DS flopped in sales, leading to AlphaDream’s demise.

[@crazyand2099]

46:24 The Bowsers holding their respective Bowser Juniors is really adorable.

[@TheArkhamjester]

When you beat up about both Bowser Junior's at the end and both Bowser's put aside their plan betrayals to go Papa wolf on you. It's the only story moment I remember from this game

[@thomtom3070]

It’s so ironic that right after the game that was during the “year of Luigi” they put two Mario’s in the next one and omitted paper Luigi

[@davyjones3105]

Technically Paper Luigi appears when you choose to listen to the in-game soundtrack which you unlock after beating the game, but I get what you’re saying.

[@tiagocervera5661]

Now first of all on the gameplay side paper Luigi would make things worse seening as control paper Mario with the y button in this game paper luigi would likely be controled with x meaning you would have to keep pressing all 4 face buttons during combat does that sound confortable to You? And this would make the Game very hard and complitated and nintendo didn't want that so they put him in the sound test as an easter egg

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@tiagocervera5661. So why didn't they just...put him into the actual story? He's literally the only version of Luigi that can talk in full sentences like a regular person; You could have done that and it would have at least added some degree of interest to the narrative.

[@N12015]

Honestly, this game reminds me something very important: VISUAL MATTERS, not in the "HD is best" sense, but in the "Your game should be visually stylish" one. Paper Jam is not bad, but it's painfully bland to look and to interact with, making players get bored easily, even if at face value it is a good game, the fact of the matter is that's an unapealling game to pick, which was a very common sin for Mario games during the Wii U era.

[@turtleanton6539]

Indeed it was

[@epicmaster46]

We are so back.

[@rinn5238]

Even the interesting battle system couldn't keep me invested. I got about halfway through the game before getting so frustrated with the blandness because it felt like I was working towards nothing. I ended up finishing it at some point but even then it felt like a huge slog to get through and I felt pretty unsatisfied for beating it. Felt like a waste of time. It's such a shame because if they used TTYD/Super and honestly any M&L game for inspiration, it would probably end up one of my favorite Mario RPGs.

[@Pairofscissorspng]

I honestly feel the same

[@dawdtambadou3060]

to be fair to alphadream, I wouldn't say being forced to be standardized wasn't the entire reason paper jam sucked. in @AurumAlex 's video that was released 2 weeks ago, he said that the team behind paper jam (especially after the ambitious project that was dream team) didn't have the time, resources or energy to come up with unique characters, plot, areas etc. Hirokuyi kubota himself says he was pretty tired by the time he was asked to make paper jam. however, in spite of these reasons, that doesn't change what the game itself is, so I hope you understand now.

[@SuperMarioSwagger]

What i remember the most about this game is how glitchy it was and how you could easily sequence break, i did it on my second playtrought and went to the final boss at like level 25 iirc, was pretty fun

[@TeltStory]

One of the other good qualities. Other than the battle system. I want somebody to do a solo luigi run.

[@SandwitchZebra]

I still can’t get over how PM devolved, and it’s especially apparent in this game. PM’s paper aesthetic was just an artstyle for the most part, only occasionally being used as a gameplay mechanic. It was supposed to look like a pop-up storyboard or a scrapbook. Come Sticker Star, and now everyone is self-aware about being made of paper and everything going forward is based on that aspect. Stickers, colors, origami. It’s like the developers learned they couldn’t make a big story with original characters anymore and decided to swing into the paper thing fully. Paper Jam only emphasizes this because the only thing the paper characters offer is the fact that they are paper. Look, they take more damage from fire! They can make copies! They can slide through cracks! They can roll into a ball! Because it’s the only thing they can do without original characters from either series, otherwise they’ve just got two of everybody but one of them has an outline.

[@MrSiggismund]

I'm a massive Mario & Luigi fan, but i just couldnt stand this game because of how dull and generic it felt. It had some interesting battle mechanics though.

[@Hyper_Drud]

Back when Club Nintendo was around you could get a discount on some games if you log into your account during the month of your birthday. This was one of the games on offer.

[@SMCwasTaken]

Atleast its Boss theme Slapped

[@shades4313]

Same here, I love the first 4 games. This one though, I didn’t even make it past the first main area. It just really was that bad and boring

[@Mut4ntG4m3r]

I feel that way about Inside Story xD

[@gandhitheholeresizer8329]

@@Mut4ntG4m3r this is such bait, no way a real living person actually holds this opinion

[@milesrodger3724]

Really really struggled getting through this game. Was so dull me unfortunately

[@UltraNintendoChalmers64]

Better than Sticker Star and Color Splash though, but that’s not much.

[@turtleanton6539]

​@@UltraNintendoChalmers64agreed. Im never even playing origami king. And rhis is far below even dreamteam

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Paper Jam is one of the most "Missed Potential" games I've played. Being a crossover of the Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario series, they could have had combined characters and story elements from both series, but instead they just have it be a generic Mario story with the hook being "there's two of each character!"

[@backfisch7021]

A problem i have with the game is that the trio attacks are so long. The bros attacks in superstar saga are short and snappy but with each new title the special attacks took longer and longer and this started to make fights take way too long. The best part of a bossfight are its mechanics but you spend way more time with youre attack minigames then actually interacting with the boss.

[@demizorua570]

Just found your channel through being recommended this video (have been on a bit of a paper mario retrospective kick lately) and went through and watched all of your mario RPG retrospective videos since! I absolutely adore your style of videos; the easy to digest structure they follow and little touches added in editing make them fantastic watches! I especially like the little audio wavelengths added when showing off a game's music; it's a nice touch that helps pull everything together! You deserve many more subscribers, and I can't wait to see what you put together in the future!

[@SnakeNamedJake]

So nice to know that sometime after November 7th, 2024, you'll probably be making a video on Mario & Luigi Brothership, a brand new, non remake M&L game

[@whale4502]

Many people may be like this game is bad. Honestly it's a really good game. Story wise it could of done more. Mechanics and game play were great. The card system was fun especially with amibos.

[@N12015]

Is basically a good game in a bad skin. The game is incredibly BLAND on the surface, and that's a big reason the game sold so little (Well, that and the relatively poor reputation of Dream Team and Sticker Star). Is a showcase of how artistic style can make a game enjoyable or dull, and is also what happened with NSMB.

[@novustalks7525]

​@@hoohoo431DT was bad. It was unnecessarily wrong and felt like a copy of BIS

[@SMCwasTaken]

​@@novustalks7525Shush Luigiphobe

[@worlds-biggest-mbn-fanboy]

@@novustalks7525 Eh i wouldnt say dream team was bad when it had the dream battles , as for the copycat allegations id say you're right to an extent but even then it still stands out from BIS with the dream battles alone

[@somedude4487]

Dream Team was excellent, but Paper Jam is so lackluster in almost every quality outside of battles that there's no reason to play it. Dream Team actually had a world to explore and be invested in.

[@DjDeadpig]

NGL, this was the perfect opportunity to bring back Dimentio and maybe some other bad guys like Cackletta and Fawful.

[@wearywanderer1912]

I love the idea of the 'Paperverse' merging with Mario's 3D reality. The overworld gimmicks and Paper Mario as a third fighter captivated me. The story lacked deepness though. Luigi accidentally bumping into a bookshelf and causing the so special yet unprotected book to open and fuse realities was super lame. The lack of an original villain and those annoying and softlocking toad hunts took even more value from the whole experience. The OST was nice, specially winter theme.

[@newerboomerangmiaro7778]

I mean if you finished the expert challenges in dream team, you unlock the duplex crown which was an accessory that let a bro move twice in one turn, which i wouldn't exactly call trash.

[@Link101yt]

We’re getting a new Mario and Luigi game yay

[@demopan1067]

whenever i think of this game, i think of the fun battle mechanics before the story or puzzles

[@swordheartstudios]

I remember back when Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam first got announced during Nintendo E3 and I was excited about the concept of the 2 most beloved RPG worlds of Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario colliding. Being an adult it's sad to see that this was the game that would symbolize the fall for both series especially for Mario & Luigi not having a new game for over 9 years now besides the remakes of Superstar Saga. I would've loved to have seen how well both series could've meshed elements from previous games in both series into this one. But it's awesome to see how much the Mario RPG games are making a comeback today in the modern era of gaming as I hope we can see a revival to the Mario & Luigi series in the future like we have with the Super Mario RPG Remake and Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door Remake.

[@micahfurlow2624]

Well, you got the revival you were hoping for

[@doctorcardio1559]

Been waiting for this! Love your content.

[@JamieJenkins2001]

OMG yes! I so agree about the tutorials! Paper Jam actually being hands off with tutorials was awesome. I loved Dream Team but I found it annoying that I was getting tutorials in Somnom Woods. It just felt weird to hear that tutorial music when you were 90% of the way through the game.

[@ivanzoneBR24]

For someone who missed the community post like me thats a great surprise seeing the Paper Jam review now.

[@zereaux56]

The only issue I had with Paper Jam was that we didn't have Paper Luigi with us as well as Paper Mario. Having all 4 bros would have been very fun and he's canonically the only one that can fully talk which could have led to so many funny or interesting interactions.

[@isauldron4337]

Starlow doesn't dislike luigi though She has low patience

[@tiagocervera5661]

Now thats what i like to hear

[@blakeerlenbeck-jd1sq]

in my opinion, the paper jam final boss music is only beaten out by the bowsers inside story boss music

[@SMCwasTaken]

And DT's and Superstar Sa- **Gets flamed*

[@mr.monkey354]

It's just as good if not slightly better, this video did it dirty

[@yuukovukovich9996]

And lo, they announced Brothership just the other day.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

Correction: Over a week ago.

[@zacki102]

the mario and luigi franchise touched the infected root of paper mario and fucking died and honestly that makes me despise this game way more than i reasonably should tbh

[@SMCwasTaken]

Say what you want about this game but its Boss Theme Slaps

[@MyNaymIsSnek1526]

Yeah, essspecially that one bit with the organ.

[@demopan1067]

i wanted to mention that as a person who wanted to do all the expert challenges in dream team, the expert gear absolutely goes crazy with stats

[@richardwhite8276]

51:57 this aged well

[@jefferyandbob3137]

I tried to play this game because the combat looked fun but the bland areas, damn near completely inactive story, no original characters or ideas, etc made it impossble to get past the desert. Compare that to, for example, Superstar Saga where things were constantly happening, new locations, new characters, all of that. The entire journey is also just "Go to Bowser's Castle. Uh oh, it's in the air! Go to Bowser's Castle again." Again compared to Superstar Saga, where the story is split into a bunch of relatively smaller adventures and goals where it feels like your immediate goals actually matter and, despite being a shorter game, could be split into 4-5 main goals versus PM's 2 samey goals. There's literally no original ideas in this game, it's just "what if NSMB but two of every main character + Starlow".

[@przemekyk1964]

Is someone gonna notice that he synced the Mountaintop secrets soundtrack with giga shroom at 32:30

[@buzzytrombone4353]

I'm currently replaying this game for the twenty sixth (twenty seventh?) time in the past nearly nine years as a preparation for Mario & Luigi: Brothership and I'm a lot more positive to it than I was when I was fifteen years old because of the battle system and the coziness of some of the locations. Where I know that it will kill it for me however, is after Bowser's Castle is raised into the air via the ore because of how the tension is killed, they only go back to the castle after Bowser shoots the cannon ball at Peach's Castle and demolishes it. If they had just stayed at the castle and were nearly thrown off of it, and had to climb back up to the throne room, then I think that it would have flown much more nicely and would have kept the tension of the player in tact immediately after seeing the destruction of Peach's Castle. And even then, they could have still kept the parts in the woods with King Boo and the mission on the mountain to destroy King Bob-omb's operation as two optional quests for unlocking more Bros. Attacks.

[@ultima1033]

Ngl, that illegal on paper bit got a good chuckle out of me. 😂

[@normalgamingproductions7012]

Amazing how everything sticker star touches turns to garbage

[@LIGHTANGEL_EX]

I miss the time when Paper Mario/ Mario Story had a cartoony style because it was a stylistic choice as opposed to making everything made of cardboard and paper. It makes the world and universal ending stakes feel much less significant than they should be when it turns out it only takes place in a book.

[@scopicaplays]

Are you planning to retrospect the Mario + Rabbids duology? Genuinely fun games.

[@Master-Fawful958]

As someone who genuinely enjoyed as well as the rest of the Mario and Luigi series, seeing an actually positive review of this game was SUCH a welcome surprise, (even if there were other critics that really liked it). And after playing Origami King, I’d take this over OK any day and I’ll stand by that. At least Paper Jam didn’t sacrifice making fun for the sake of a shallow excuse for fan-service. Literally ANYTHING that the fans wanted to see return was very surface-level and battle system was fundamentally broken. By contrast: Paper Jam prioritized making a good fun game over fan-service and it arguably payed off for the developers. And even if the overall story and characters were too generic, there was still some original gameplay additions 3DS and remakes had great stories to tell and added new lore and even address and fix plot holes from their original versions. All that aside, this whole review series was a great time so keep up the nice work👍.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

Cool. Do you realize how low that bar is?

[@Master-Fawful958]

@@dragonbornexpress5650 While you’re not wrong about that, that’s exactly why I was able enjoy Paper Jam so much. I played Origami King before Paper Jam and it not only set my expectations low enough for me be pleasantly surprised by Paper Jam, it actually somehow made me appreciate Sticker Star and Color Splash more. OK was the only game modern Mario RPG at the time that tried way too to have its cake and eat it too, Intelligent Systems tried so hard to give the fans what they wanted while still trying holding onto their broken formula from the previous two games, and it kinda felt like it didn’t really know what it wanted to be. Not to mention that the game had its own fair share of game tropes that personally can’t stand, hence why I it’s really the only Mario that I actually hate (let alone dislike). I thought Color Splash was decent and have enjoyed Sticker Star in a so bad that it’s good sorta way. Although as much as I enjoyed them, I’ll always prefer Superstar Saga and Bowser’s Inside Story (they’re my two favorite games of all time and I honestly can’t decide which one I prefer).

[@MySnugglePuppy]

It did not pay off for the developers, it hit them down so bad all they could do was remake their two best games and then die.

[@MySnugglePuppy]

@@Master-Fawful958 Also, I would take Origami King over this any day. That game has amazing humor and enough variation in environments compared to this bland mess.

[@Master-Fawful958]

@@MySnugglePuppy Don’t get me wrong here, just ‘cause I hate OK doesn’t mean I should stop you from enjoying it. But like I said, I liked the game’s presentation and humor but the rest of it was a massive disappointment to me personally. I personally always thought Superstar Saga and Super Paper Mario were much funnier games but then again, humor is subjective. And even Paper Jam had some good laughs here and there if you ask me, but it doesn’t compare to the first three Paper Mario or the first three M&L games for that matter. And just because OK sold well doesn’t mean everyone will like it.

[@Dragynn999]

Super interesting video. I am currently working on a game that handles the overworld exploration with three characters a lot like this game and I am looking for reference materials all over the web. Good to know that I am not the only one who felt the three individual character button presses for something as simple as jumping up a very small ledge to b e rather sluggish. I feel that some streamlining and giving the characters specific moves on specific button presses as something easily accessible on the overworld, while automating something as simple as the jumping just as much as the movement for the following characters, is absolutely the right thing to do.

[@Mystic-Aidan]

I haven’t played this game, but from what I’ve seen I feel like this game deserves credit for actually using the core Mario enemy cast. Most of the M&L games use the majority of completely new enemies, as well as a few remixes on bowser’s army. This game specifically gave a lot of the classic enemies amazing spritework and animation, especially those who don’t always get the spotlight in these games like Petey Pirahana. Obviously it makes more sense to focus on the Paper Mario stuff, but I appreciate it’s unwavering dedication to what they could use from the normal modern Mario games.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

To be honest, that's not really anything to praise, especially when it was released in an era where you were lucky to even get a single original character including stuff like Mario Party.

[@joshuakolton9955]

These and paper Mario videos are great. Boy how these games have fallen.

[@ThaCataBoi]

I’ve always had a soft spot for Paper Jam, not because I enjoyed the story much, but because it was the first game I truly learned how to break.

[@Mymy_64]

Hot take: This one's actually my favorite in the series. I love the qol improvement this game it has as well as finally having a way to speed up the cutscenes.

[@link_team3855]

34:03 eh. idk. this is more general but personally i feel like the best way of doing a partial block is if the play got ' bad' timing for a block, close enough to block some of the damage, but not close enough for all of it. (for some reason im thinking of getting staggered by getting hit with shield at the ready in skyward sword) i also wasnt watching the video so this probably isnt relevant ohhhh i see, emergency block is tied to 'x'. so EVERYONE attempts to block at the same time, at the cost of taking half damage instead of no damage using the specific bro's button

[@brionis2686]

I feel there is one thing about the battle system which wasnt touched on and thats the fact that the speed which you need to dodge or counter attacks has been severely slowed down. The combat started slow but became gradually faster with time until it peaked in bis. Dream team paper jam and the remakes all slowed things down so much that goings between some of the games completely throws your reaction times off. When i say slower i mean that you need the attack to be as close as possible to the bros for the dodge or counter to actually work properly. Punching with bowser in bis original feels like you need to meet the enemy half way through the attack to stop the oncoming force.

[@PipeGuy64Bit]

This is the only game in the series I haven't finished. Though I dropped it for a more petty reason, the expert challenges for the Paper Sombrero Guys were way too difficult and the fact that they randomly appear in battle annoyed me so much that I quit. This game in general is a massively frustrating missed opportunity. The whole game feels like it was sanitized hard by the "IP Team" that Tanabe mentioned when he was interviewed for Paper Mario Origami King. All the featureless toads, Toadsworth being gone (fsr the IP Team hates Toadsworth), the areas in the game being boring New Super Mario Bros locations, the Koopalings suddenly existing again in the Mario & Luigi series. Also reused assets from Sticker Star and all of the out of bounds glitches makes it feel like not much time was spent on this game compared to Dream Team. Not to mention how a crossover game is usually a celebration of what makes both series great, this doesn't do any of that in the slightest.

[@V.B.T.G]

I'll be looking forward to the Mario and Luigi Brothership review when the game finally releases 😄

[@AutumnOwlex]

Well lets see if people from Alpha are working on Brothership. See ya then

[@RenardioMFG]

It’s actually impressive how much missed potential this game holds. On the flip side though, this game is really fun

[@gospelarchain4504]

You like deck building huh? Have you played Megaman Battle Network?

[@NotShard1]

ive heard people calling this game the worst from both worlds. honestly sad but i understand

[@Crusty783]

The removal of bonus points ruined this game for me. Its part of what made the M&L gameplay loop so great and replayable :(

[@bmanxy3363]

bowsers slave dungeon is pretty cool tho

[@10carflo22]

Which game do you think is better and which would you replay first in the future between Dream Team and Paper Jam?

[@ScionVyse]

Hard to say, I'd probably attempt to replay Dream Team a lot sooner than I'd attempt to replay Paper Jam, but I'd probably end up tapping out of Dream Team faster.

[@turtleanton6539]

​@@ScionVysethats fair

[@Kirbyster]

I really disagree with your gripe about the balance expecting players to grind. I avoided as many normal enemy combats as I could, and even while underleveled, I found the boss battles in Paper Jam to be by far the best in the entire M&L series. It was harder than I would think was intended, but the difficulty was a direct result of me choosing not to engage with overworld enemies, so I think it was fair and very cool that it is even possible to allow the bosses to become that difficult. The combat is also extremely tight, making difficult fights feel much more like skill checks rather than stat checks. The only part I didnt like about being underleveled was having to use so many special moves to beat bosses. I used the the Trio Whirligig a disgusting amount of times over my playthrough.

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

I have to ask, did you avoid fights? A game with on field encounters by design expects you to fight each encounter once. They don't need to test out lower/higher levels since it is purely optional if you do the bare minimal expected of you in a decently designed game.

[@bmanxy3363]

i like underleving paperjam. its like playing hardmode in dreamteam

[@TheCoolChocolateGaming]

I just now realized that the star points with the cards were a reference to ttyd

[@chainswordcs]

fwiw i generally liked Triforce Heroes, lol

[@SMCwasTaken]

I like your pfp

[@amber2778]

I heard Alphadream might return with another M&L game Emphasis on might as i still don't fully believe it but there is something (a survey)

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

No, Alphadream as a company are dead, though some of their employees may have been brought on to develop Brothership.

[@court_jesture]

This was actually my first introduction to the M&L series But even I can agree it's definitely the weakest of all the games In my opinion it isn't that bad, but it's definitely not as good as the rest and has a LOT of lost potential. The concept is amazing but the potential definitely wasn't recognized. The rest of the game is pretty good though, mechanics are cool, fights feel fresh with Paper Mario and the Trio Attacks, and the music is amazing. I definitely wish it had some past characters coming back but I definitely understand why they didn't, new fans wouldn't know who they were and wouldn't understand their whole deal, particularly referring to the giant cast of Paper Mario. I still love the game but it's definitely not the best.

[@JamieJenkins2001]

As someone who enjoyed both series, I have to admit I agree, there was so much missing potential. There's a lot I loved about Paper Jam, for example, Gloomy Woods's music was my favorite song from either series, and it's tons of fun, but I felt like the game had the potential to be the best game ever.

[@James2210]

What's going on at 50:45 on? Seems like you have too many soundtracks playing at the same time

[@MySnugglePuppy]

Easily the worst of both worlds. Something boring is worse than something bad.

[@tylerbarth3113]

I had a smile on my face playing for the first time but it was all the gameplay. I liked it but I doubt I'll play it again. I am, however, excited for Mario & Luigi: Brothership!

[@Peggleprodigy11]

The Lakitus send info to bowser⁉️Huh⁉️I never thought of it that way.

[@mondongo8480]

When I was a kid I really liked this game so far, now I’m more grown and I have to say that I still like it, but it’s not perfect, the thing I hate the most is how difficult is to grind levels if you don’t have amibos etc… and the big battles of big cardboards are the most boring thing in the game, still I like the story, oh yeah, and the bosses are anything but original, I give it a 6/10.

[@twilighttoast01]

So somewhat funny story, I first got Paper Jam in May of 2016 for my birthday. I got the Star Fox Zero Wii U bundle at the same time, and even though I was still really excited to finally have a Wii U, I remember immediately hiding in a room and playing Paper Jam after I opened all of my presents. But anyway, while I did enjoy the game for what it was for the most part, even as a thirteen year old I could definitely see a lot of its shortcomings (especially creatively). I haven’t revisited the game since I first played it back then, but looking back I barely remember that many standout moments besides realizing that the initial battle theme was a remix of Superstar Saga’s. I really wish this game lived up to the rest of the series, especially with it being a Paper Mario crossover and all

[@kingodingo1142]

Would love a bundle on the switch

[@micahfurlow2624]

How about a new game instead?

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

Take a new game, why don't you? Lol

[@dylbill56remixes28]

The last papercraft fight is the sole reason I never finish this game on repeat playthroughs. Not because it's hard (it really isn't), but because it's clunky and unfun.

[@aka_Ingmar]

Excited for the new one?

[@zariaalhajmoustafa2573]

Kensuke Tanabe who work in Sticker Star and colour splash the origami King he is the supervisor of paper jam

[@THE_TOAST]

you look like my dad.

[@BriceTerry04]

I actually like Partners In Time and I despise Paper Jam, for some things. 1: Paper Jam doesn't have any interesting characters. (But Bowser and Paper Bowser are still hammy and have some good lines, but I still wish that the N64 and TTYD characters were here) 2: The paper toads are the worst side mission ever. And 3: Luigi harassment... Outside of being a Marie stan, I'm a Luigi fan boy, and I don't support Luigi bullying. But thankfully, thanks to the success of the Mario Movie, The RPGs don't have to suck anymore! I still can't wait for Brothership.

[@questionmarkquestionmarkques]

great video underrated channel

[@PikaPunch44]

The game forcing you to collect paper toad really ruined the game for me. Every single time man, cause aside from that this game had massive potential. But collecting the roads took way too long and was just aggravating

[@falicuno]

Is there the chance you forgot to pick up the bros. attack cannonball chuck, seeing as you didnt have it in 48:19?

[@ScionVyse]

I got it in my first playthrough, I just didn't bother in my second.

[@PatrickGilland]

I hated how the whole generic toad mandate infected the Superstar Saga remake, where all the unique toad designs were replaced with generic ones. I'm glad Nintendo seems to be swaying away from doing that, since the Mario RPG and TTYD remakes kept and adapted their old toad designs.

[@mr.monkey354]

Not a mandate. Alphadream confirmed they wanted to do more but combining all their universes in that manner would of been convoluted and a mess.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@mr.monkey354. And yet the remake still flopped. Also, the story of Paper Jam is still convoluted because of how trash the plot is and how many smaller plotlines go nowhere, making it feel like the narrative is straight up going into cryofreeze for hours at a time while also pissing the player off at every moment.

[@Joeman875]

The main reason for alpha dreams bankruptcy was mario and luigi bowsers inside story remake, but that is probably not the only factor because they already had a lot of debt before the game realeased

[@HelloSayEm6]

How much money did they spend on the remakes anyway?

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@HelloSayEm6. Not sure, though I doubt it was cheap since sprites by their very nature take up a lot of time and resources to create. (Hence why a lot of older games in the 90's and 2000's just reused the same sprites from other games: Much cheaper and less time consuming.)

[@The-one-person-you-remember]

Paper Jam was the first Mario and Luigi game I beat, because I got stuck on Inside Story and Dream Team. It WAS easy.

[@GeorgeKpatcha-tt6iu]

What did you get stuck on?

[@pumpkintron8969]

51:55 HOW MANY MONTH AFTER THEY BROUGHT IT BACK ???? 6??????MONTH ?????

[@fawfulthegreat64]

This one was arguably more disappointing than Sticker Star to me, and that's saying a lot. Even though the gameplay is leagues better, having a crossover between Mario & Luigi AND Paper Mario, both of which I loved for their rich expansions of the Mario world and original characters, use absolutely zero from either and stick exclusively to the safest brand-friendly slop ever managed to insult both the PM fan and M&L fan in me, and I've been a lifelong fan of both. At least modern Paper Mario did nothing to bring down Mario & Luigi for me, and I loved the two remakes to death. But man Paper Jam is such a depressing entry for me. Even the remakes found places to add connecting lore to other games, but Paper Jam couldn't even muster the fucking Elite Trio after they were with Bowser in Dream Team's epilogue? Also it's the only M&L game to exclude Toadsworth, they finally put an end to his perfect track record in the series after he'd already been eradicated from every other part of the Mario franchise.

[@rangersussman5183]

I actually just a few weeks ago bought and played all the mario and luigi games apart from dream team and superstar saga which i owned. Out of them all ill be honest, paper jam felt soulless abd starlow making 4th wall break jokes felt off... like even alphadream knew it was gonna be bad.

[@thejonbrownshow8470]

I'm just imagining after thousand year door remake, they bring the M and L series to switch with a "spiritual successor" to paper jam with the thousand year door level of creativity, and then a reworked version of the first 5 games(with the remakes of Superstar and bowser insides of course lol) in a sonic origins at worst like package

[@ahmedhasan4966]

MARIO AND LUIGI IS BACK!

[@MyNaymIsSnek1526]

Brothership hasss joined the chat.

[@mr.monkey354]

You did the final boss theme dirty, it's easily as good if not better than in the final and you didn't even play the best part of the song.

[@Griffnix]

I loved Paper Mario. Never got into Mario and Luigi simply because I didn't have a gba until late into the life. I guess I was a Paper Mario purist and would give Mario and Luigi the stink eye. After a number of Paper Mario games that were not what I wanted, a genuine RPG experience, I caved and got this game just for a tiny hit of that Paper Mario feel. And.... I really enjoyed it. While the game's primary goal of you trying to reach the castle keeps getting detoured, I liked the combat, I loved the dialog and I liked that Paper Mario was in here although I wish there was more from that series in here. Give us Paper Luigi, you cowards! I knew nothing about the Mario and Luigi games aside from a few base things and this game had me go back to the previous games. I hope though with the success of Super Mario Rpg and a Paper Mario The Thousand-Year Door remaster on the way, this is a new age of the Mario RPG.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

Brothership got announced like two weeks ago, by the way.

[@Cris_Blu]

Man, it would have been nice if either Alpha Dream or Intelligent Systems were paper mario fans lmao

[@a26lolhart]

There are tons of awesome mechanics slapped on to the dullest game ever

[@apeacefulfriend2936]

The reason why they went to bankruptcy in autumn 2019 is that their last games weren't financially that successful unfortunately. With Paper Jam, a trend of lower Sales numbers, which brought Alphadream to just stick with remaking their stuff with Superstar Saga (2017) and Bowser's inside Story (2019), ignoring Partners in time for a remake (because of its relatively unpopular position in the franchise). Unfortunately, the remakes didn't really work out either, especially since the remake of Bowser's inside story, the financially most successful Mario and Luigi-RPG, turned out to be the biggest flop of the Mario and Luigi RPGs. To be fair though, the remake was released as the last 1st party game for the 3DS, because production for the console ended later the same year. So basically Bowser's inside story was the last attempt to keep the 3DS ahead in some ways...

[@newerboomerangmiaro7778]

I really hope you reach that goal with so you can do a retrospective on the mario rpg remake