Sleeper Hit, or Snoozefest? | Mario & Luigi: Dream Team Retrospective

Bowser's Inside Story brought the Mario & Luigi franchise to new heights. Will its followup be able to maintain that quality, or will Alphadream's ambition come back to bite them?
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[@wetnamE]

Dreamteam is my second favorite M&L game. (Behind bowser's inside story, which remains as my favorite game of all time. Mostly because of nostalgia) I always heard people complain about how the artstyle wasn't as good with the previous game's, which I disagree with, I absolutely love the blend of traditional 2d and 3d graphics, it's so charming!

[@codysvlogdays]

I think the aesthetic of the 3d models in this game is unmatched. at least it is for me personally

[@chrisjohnson9542]

BIS and DT are my two favorite also. I'm playing through paper jam right now for the first time and kinda just wanting to just finish it so I can go play dream team again. I have only played the 3ds version of BIS so I'm looking forward to playing the original ds version one of these days.

[@20000dino]

@@codysvlogdays It is most certainly not for me. Like not even close. The 2D toon style is just infinitely more expressive, charming, and well-animated, especially after it was perfected in Bowser’s Inside Story.

[@codysvlogdays]

@@20000dino that's fair. I love how pretty much all the games look so

[@alexgamer1287]

@@codysvlogdayssorry to ruin it but the characters are 2D sprites (and in a funny way the paper characters from paper jam are 3D models😂)

[@jimmyrustler5801]

1:00:40 that surprises me. There are several normal enemies you're encouraged to taunt ball. There's an impromptu tutorial on them for the first background enemy you come across in Mt. Pajamaja

[@zetaabsbs2329]

16:47 Bro casually prediciting the future. In the M&L Brothership trailer, you can see that the X and Y bottoms on the switch are used for hammers!

[@Keitoded]

Paper Jam may have a lot of issues, but when it comes to tutorials, they were MASSIVELY improved, in that they are very minimal and are almost entirely optional.

[@intensegamerrage]

This one quickly became my favorite in the series because there's just so much game. It only started to feel drawn out 36 hours into my first playthrough

[@Robin280497]

"As one final gift, he creates NSMB2." That was perfect! 😂😂😂

[@StartouchArts]

I completely forgot the taunt ball existed when playing through the game; so when I got to Dreamy Bowser, I simply brute forced my way through the mooks with Bomb Derby and Zee Egg. I think at most, Bowser added like 4 more turns to my fight from the healing; so it wasn't too bad. I also surprisingly had no issues with the motion controls so I thoroughly enjoyed the Zee Keeper and Giant Bowser fights. Because of this, as well as being older and smarter thus knowing how to video game, I enjoyed Dream Team even more than BIS; I never realized how much slower jumps are in DT though.

[@nicolasp4228]

YOU CAN TAUNT BALL DREAMY BOWSER?

[@nicolasp4228]

Nvm should've watched the full video before going to the comments For some odd reason, I can't edt my comment

[@nicholasali3566]

Ironically enough I used a taunt ball just about every time an enemy was in the background, but didn’t even think of trying one on Dreamy Bowser

[@LimeFlavoredDrink]

Absolutely underrated youtuber. Been watching like 90% of your recent stuff and its been up there with the other nintendo reviewers. Dunno why you aren't getting traction, but best of luck!

[@MarioLuigiAndJr.]

True

[@mynameisaegis]

I definitely fall into the camp of absolutely adoring this game. It's my favorite in the series. I never really found the battle pace slow oddly enough. The giant battles are some of the most fun I've had in a Mario game...aside from the forced motion controls. Also goodness, the music in Dream Team is fantastic. Almost every song on the soundtrack is a certified banger.

[@jessahartley4714]

Man, Luigi and Kamek really love dressing up as Peach!

[@AlexMartinez-gv7hy]

Cross dressing is fun, just look at Bugs Bunny

[@davyjones3105]

Someone oughta give this game the Paper Mario 64 treatment and make a mod for it where it’s designed with veteran players in mind; completely forgoing tutorials, making boss fights longer by increasing the numbers, making some puzzles harder, and possibly adding a “cutscene fast-forward” button like Paper Jam & the other RPG remakes did, along with some other changes.

wait, is there a paper mario mod like this? tell me the name please!

[@davyjones3105]

It’s called “Paper Mario: Master Quest” I believe.

[@HarambaeXelonmuskfans]

Just don't make him scottish and i'll play ball

[@callampero]

First time i saw the taunt ball used in the final fight. Back in my playthrough years ago i didn't had problems with that attack, so i'm really surprised to see that phase of attack. Also, thanks, i wanted to replay this game again, but all that time you know will be spent in tutorials and long battle phases, this video was a blessing.

[@OffAirProductions]

Oof, I felt that bit about the final boss. I never knew about the taunt balls being the intended strategy. Every time I've fought this boss, I used this strategy: go in with a few time stop charges, destroy the arms, stop time, spam the strongest bros. moves in the game. It always felt a bit cheap defeating him that way, but I was technically still using the tools the game provided me with. I feel like this would be my second-favorite game in the series if not for the tutorials. I truly feel like I could never find the time to replay it thanks to those.

[@awesomeocelot7475]

For me Dream team is the one Mario & Luigi game where I was able to get to final rank by the end of the main game just by battling every enemy without having to grind at all.

[@coopinatormusic6214]

This was my first Mario & Luigi game and the first ever proper RPG game I had ever played. So this game means a lot to me. It was so cool to go on such a grand and lengthy adventure across reality and dreams. Therefore I have INCREDIBLY STRONG bias towards this game and will NEVER stop singing its praises. Yes, it has flaws, but my bias decrees that I ignore them. Since it was my first game, I had no idea how to play, so the tutorials didn't bother me in the slightest. Even on replays, I'm not really phased by them. (Then again replays are pretty spread out, so it's a nice refresher.) And honestly, with how long this game is, I kinda felt... underwhelmed by the other games in the series by comparison. I remember finally getting to play Bowser's Inside Story, the one everyone raved about, and making it to the final boss and thinking, "Wait, that's it? We're already here? It felt so short!" And I don't know, maybe it's the aforementioned bias talking, but I didn't find BIS *more* fun than Dream Team. Pretty equal, actually. But nostalgia broke the tie in Dream Team's favor.

[@Poyomini]

I share the exact same opinion as you! I got this game back in 2013 when I was 7, and it is one of my favorite childhood games, and by extention, one of my favorite games ever. Yes, as I grew older, I can't deny that it has problems, and objectively, Bowser's Inside Story is the better game because of Dream Team's said problems, but... Damn it, I can't help but love this game to pieces! It is my favorite M&L game out of all of them, and I'm pretty sure it'll remain that way until I die!

[@ProsecutorZekrom]

I'm pretty sure Luigi got inspiration for the Luiginary cone from learning the spin jump move on Mount Pajamaja

[@Poyomini]

And now that I think about it, the same could also be said for the Luiginary Stack's ball formation, since they learn the bouncy ball move before Dreamy Luigi comes up with the idea for this formation. (I think. It's been YEARS since I've played this game, and just today I've started a new save on Hard Mode for the sake of replaying it, but I believe that's the order you learn those two moves in. Please correct me if it's the other way around!)

[@ProsecutorZekrom]

@@Poyomini Yeah it’s the same but in reverse for the ball, they’re inspired by a battle move

[@zariaalhajmoustafa2573]

Starting from Dream Team the ost become more Kingdom Hearts than Mario Luigi

[@RandomNICK]

It's crazy how X and Y are now going to be default hammers in Mario and Luigi Brotherhood, good call in your suggestion!

[@Zastralord]

Really enjoyed the in-depth review and how things were covered that I don't often see adressed elsewhere. I also see you're doing the other Mario RPGs too, subbed. I felt the part on Dream Bowser's healing so bad, with this series I like to do challenge runs where I'm intentionally underleveled or use weak equipment and I ran into the issue where Bowser would outheal my damage because he does it so often. I even had him re-start the heal process IN THE SAME TURN where he left the backgroujd after I got rid of his minions.

[@justinluc2572]

I'm so glad someone else finally put it into words. Back when I first played this, I was going through the worse period of my life where my depression became crippling to the point where it became hard to enjoy recreational hobbies. I thought it was just me and my depression that made this game feel "off". Now, I finally got closure. Thank you.

[@iliyasesoof17]

Honestly one of if not the best game I've ever played

[@the_numb_skull]

As a kid I had an absolute BLAST with Bowsers Inside Story and when I saw Dream Team was launching and that I has gotten a 3DS a year prior I immediately asked for it and luckily it was Mario and now GTA so my grandma got it for me DAY ONE and I remember having an absolute blast with it too, however I’ve replayed Bowsers Inside Story several times, I never replayed this one. I’ve been watching these videos on the playlist and haven’t thought to comment now but thank you for these comprehensive videos these are genuinely awesome!

[@andrewvanover9747]

Dream Team is my 2nd favorite Mario and Luigi game, and i never really minded its length, pacing, and tutorials, cuz everything else is done so well to me, the battles are so fun and improves from BIS, the ost is amazing, the graphics works best for DT than the remakes and paper jam, and i love its hard mode, i homestly think people blows its flaws way out if proportion

[@newerboomerangmiaro7778]

I always loved dream team, it was my first Mario and Luigi game, and ngl Even though the giant bosses were a pain everything else was enjoyable and fun to play, and i can't wait to see how you feel about this game, also it has a really stellar ost.

[@SonicGamerLP]

The only reason Giant battles really were a pain, is the fact, that they force you to use those stupid motion controls 🤬

[@zetaabsbs2329]

​@@SonicGamerLP i never understood the hate for motion controls, even as a kid, they felt pretty ok to me...

[@SonicGamerLP]

@@zetaabsbs2329 they could have made them optional! It’s a handheld game, you are supposed to be able to play the games EVERYWHERE! But if there’s not a lot of space (Car, train ride, airplane) you aren’t able to play this game

[@hojugames8340]

Always great to open KZbin to find a new retrospective from you, and one on the Mario and Luigi series to boot. I definitely have a middling opinion of the game. It's super fun and well made but has serious pacing issues and severely bloated. But the core combat and exploration is solid. The tutorials though...oh God, the tutorials. Why? Seriously though, your channel deserves so much more exposure. These videos are so well made. I freaking love watching these, several times each.

[@Aktedya1-jt7vw]

I had no idea you could use taunt balls on the final boss untill now either... Dream Team WOULD be my favorite Mario and Luigi game if it wasn't for how slow it feels. Even walking in the overworld feels slower then the older games. Not to mention the tutorials...

[@TravisV_06]

Just found this video, looks great! I know what I’ll be watching for the next hour. Your channel is very underrated, keep it up, you deserve so much more support.

[@TsujiCross]

Whenever I entered the Dream World, I’d equip Mario with Bros Boots as soon as I got them and spam Luiginary Ball on every enemy encounter I came across (I’m the type of player who goes for every encounter). The boots let me recover 1 BP for each enemy defeated, so once I learned that little exploit it was pretty trivial to keep Mario’s BP topped at no expense of Syrups and the regular battles done in a relatively quick fashion in the Dream World

[@backbreakerer]

Can't relate to the whole taunt ball thing, I'd say they explain it perfectly fine

[@trystanater9543]

I'm left handed too so I understand your pain especially with the timed challenges with the luiginary clock or whatever it's called.

[@aibdan-si7fk]

First game in the series I ever played, and I loved it Never understood why people hated it so much, especially when paper jam fucking blows. Anyways great video(s)!

[@tvnorminstudio3080]

The boss fights in this game are amazing IMO. I had a blast with this game when I was a young lad.

[@dimitribottjen2495]

Wow, the only complaints I actually agree with are the overturorializarion and... um... no, that's about it. The battle system is great, the many different dream works gives the game an identity, I just don't get your side on some of this stuff

[@satanizlas]

you didn't mentionned the Expert Challenges at all i guess you weren't interested in it imo, having an objective for almost every battle makes them more interesting

[@mistereagleman]

If you don't mind me asking, what were the music tracks you didn't find as good with this one? (Also great video! Just found your channel and watched the whole M&L series up to this point - not enough people do videos on the series I feel, good stuff!!)

[@Peggleprodigy11]

I played this game 9 times before beating the final boss

[@bmanxy3363]

"IVE GOT LOVE HANDELS!!!!" i had to stop playing to swach that one up. it took me off gaurd

[@LinkyLove123]

You've probably already gotten the game, but in case you haven't, New Super Luigi U is actually very challenging, creative, and fun. Especially when compared to New Super Mario Bros U.

[@maxanderson8704]

tbh id rank dreamteam as 3rd place as the lack of content outside of the main story of partners in time keeps me from being interested in coming back like dream team does, though on a side note, you know its sad when dream team is legitemalty one of the only good mario rpgs that came out in the 2010s

[@milesrodger3724]

Really enjoyed the MSGV gag lol

[@Tiredjungle13]

Maybe it is just Nostalgia, this was my very first rpg. One of my first games ever. I just love the ambience the jokes the music. Good game.

[@theboy9877]

I remember in my first playthrough, I reached the part where you flip gravity and was confused where the tutorial was, not realizing how many tutorials were in the game

[@jackhumphries1087]

Another thing you can do with the final boss’s heal move is to use the see egg bros move on the enemies, if you do it well enough it will take them all out at once

[@Dergy]

17:00 how do we tell him

[@PokeMaster22222]

Dream Team was my first Mario & Luigi game, and I generally think it's quite a bit of fun. Sure, some of the minigames are crap, and the Dreamy Luigi battles can be overly-challenging at times, but overall it's more fun than frustrating. I don't think I was aware of the first three games before Dream Team, with me only playing Bowser's Inside Story 3D in the past few years, so...I had no real expectations, outside of loving Super Paper Mario and finding the first two PM games to be generally-mediocre - though that's a different series, so eh. I went into Dream Team blind, and I enjoyed it.

[@resean2727]

Currently also playing through the Mario and Luigi Series, and agreed with nearly everything in the video. It is definitely the most bipolar game of the series up to this point. I wanted to love the game as it shows promise but the glaring issues hold it back. Currently started playing Paper Jam so hopefully that one is better. Ps: The time stop badge combo in this game is BUSTED. I used two in a row to just bully dreamy bowser.

[@Elijah668]

The intro reminds me of an old helmsdeep campaign setting from 3E but I can't remember the name of it.

[@vaughnrudy8084]

It's weird that they have Luiginary forms being BOTH the big luigi swam AND the luigi background element touch screen possession thing because you think it'd be one or the other

[@dtothefourth]

you sound just like antdude it's crazy

[@thewindysage1538]

17:00 Using the Xbox button layout instead of the nintendo one is giving me crazy OCD problems

[@TitanXecutor]

While I agree that the game starts off really slow, once it gets going, it's really good

[@LIGHTANGEL_EX]

The attacks Dreamy Bowser has are fun to dodge, but that damn healing sequence is the worst thing about it because it just drags the fight on longer than it should. It's also ridiculous how Bowser was able to one-shot Mario and Luigi when Antasma was helping him, while Bowser got defeated when he was using the most powerful artifact in the Mario franchise. I also don't like how they didn't include Antasma in the final fight in some way because I didn't like how he died by becoming fat and then exploding. It's also ridiculous how the dreamy Bowser fight began by having Peach and Starlow shoot a pink laser that they never use or bring up again.

[@RenardioMFG]

You dont HAVE to use the Taunt Ball for the final fight. The Zee Egg bros attack is very good at attacking every enemy at once. You can also use the time freeze badge to make the battle pretty much free, however I wouldn’t recommend that, it makes the fight WAY too easy

[@richardkirkland6805]

Pretty sure that Pi'illo is pronounced like "Pillow"

[@greninjamariokartpokemonfan]

What is the music that plays at the end of your videos?

[@ScionVyse]

I wrote that! I made it specifically for my videos' end screens. I also wrote the music in my intro title card as well!

[@triumphfork9268]

Keep it up! Can you do retrospective on Pokémon?

[@robertgraaf6875]

Ngl I had a really easy time with the dreamkeeper big boss fight like I might be a little better than most at understanding how motion controls work but even the X fight which is like after end game material only took 2 attempts

[@darkmonger6244]

Ngl I never had any issues with the motion controls for the Zeekeeper

[@chrisjohnson9542]

Question. Is your opening for this series inspired by the King's Quest V opening? I'd really like to know. It sounds and looks so much like it I have to believe that it's intentional. Really brings back the nostalgia. Would love if you could comment and answer this briefly. Thanks.

[@ScionVyse]

Actually, that's entirely a coincidence. I've never played any of the King's Quest games, but I did check out that opening, and I can definitely see where you're coming from.

[@chrisjohnson9542]

​@@ScionVysenice. That's awesome. Thank you for responding to my question. I wasn't even sure if you would ever see it. Truly appreciate that!

[@static134]

Zeekeeper fight is a skill issue

[@Jlopezocasio]

16:36 are you playing on xbox?

[@adamlodge8093]

What killed this game for me was all the tutorials even all the way of to the end game

[@sahilhossain8204]

Lore of Sleeper Hit, or Snoozefest? | Mario & Luigi: Dream Team Retrospective momentum 100

[@keen96]

I really wanted to play this game but the merciless onslaught of tutorials even past the 5-hour mark was just too much. These days (well, for a while now) Nintendo swears kids are brain dead or something.

[@geschnitztekiste4111]

Another miss from this game is its lack of King wart. In both SMB2 and Zelda: Link's Awakening, he's always seen in Dream Worlds, so not using him here is such a missed opportunity. And it's not like they never use any SMB2 characters in these games, either. Birdo was an important part of Superstar Saga's plot and Partners in Time features these super obscure flying carpet enemies.

[@itstaopike]

I have a very big bias towards this game since it was my first ever introduction to the M&L franchise as well as my first ever RPG. Sure the game can be super long, and compared to older M&L games that I have never played, it could be subjectively worse in some areas (TUTORIALS). The soundtrack is absolutely beautiful, the melodies get stuck in my head, there was so much variety and M&L humor. I recall 8 year old me struggling to solve the puzzles or learning how to master the combat system (super flushed out), having to watch zackscottgame's playthrough whenever I got stuck. Oh the memories. This game will always have a place in my heart. I'd also like to mention the dream world rotate your 3ds and use the stylus boss battles. THAT WAS THE SHIT!

[@wariolandgoldpiramid]

19:03 hold on. I know for certain the game asks your dominant hand when you start a new game. Is that not actually handled well for lefties?

[@ScionVyse]

That only changes giant battles. It's handled perfectly there, but the dominant hand choice doesn't affect anything else.

[@wariolandgoldpiramid]

@@ScionVyse oh, that's a shame

[@Pajametchi]

Make paper jam!

[@Triforce469]

I had that luigi 3ds xl ... but i sold it to buy the switch

[@slommie1649]

It'd be perfect if hard mode got rid of all the tutorials

[@zachstarattack7320]

58:16 hahahaa

[@AnAngry]

Wait people nah, as the best (and only) M&L game I’ve played, my super unbias opinion says it’s the bomb

[@comet4778]

Dream team will always be my favorite. The thing that puts it above inside for me is the music and the map. The map for inside story was.. to me so boring and plain. I hated the dry start area, the beach, and the forest. The cave area, beach, and castles were cool, but I see the lesser areas as more impactful compared to the better areas. The music too is just way better in dream team. Victory in the dream world, for example is just.. it encapsulates the dream feel so well as it builds up. Try, try again has an intensity I adore, and the final antasma battle, being my favorite track is like some of the best music from all the games. Another thing I wanted to add was the battle system and how I feel it is the best. The best, highest set of situations that make the normal battles the best is running the game on its “hard mode” while ONLY focusing your level up points in stache. It makes the game so much more intense as you get hit so much harder, and can’t rely on bros moves. Another good thing is if you fight every enemy everytime you go into a new screen that you haven’t discovered before. You will ALWAYS reach rainbow rank before the antasma fight, allowing you to open up the best gear for you. The combination of hard mode, the item limits, and only focusing on your stache points makes the game so much better, and if you go for the “BIG LUCKY” bonus equip when ranking up, it makes those now common lucky hits do sooo much damage, combining that with the triple jump boots or hammer, the normal moves are what I usually go to. It’s amazing

[@mugen2686]

first, been enjoying ur retrospectives

[@michaelr3077]

i definately agree the motion controls were horrible in this game. In that zeeke fight i couldnt get Luigi to move out of the corner at all.

[@King_Luigi]

From what I know about motion controls, it's possible that your system wasn't "centered" when you started that section. You also may not have been "tilting" the system the way it wanted you to, so you wouldn't have been moving properly. On another note, I don't know when you played it but the game got an update like a month or so after it launched and I _vaguely_ recall people thinking it improved stuff like that... but I may be wrong (it _has_ been over a decade since then). 😅

[@veghesther3204]

I still love it Its the STICKER Star Paper Mario game that's PURE CRAP.

[@micahfurlow2624]

Hey, at least paper jam is a fun game that has *some* redeeming qualities, despite being the worst M&L by far If I were to put a number on this game, I would pretty much give it a 6/10

[@user-it8re8jv2l]

Hey its tutorial the game

[@GameForOnetheuksfinest]

As the game that introduced me into this series, I have nothing but respect for Dream Team even if it is one of the weakest entries in the series imo. Great video 👍🏻

[@AlexMartinez-gv7hy]

Love Dream Team, just the fetch quest was annoying

[@edwardsaldana2534]

This game is underrated and overhated way too many people look at the negatives and see this as a bad game. This is better than pit. Fight me

[@FireRising86]

Easy there, tiger. We all got our faves

[@boo_guy]

Dream Team might have more content compared to Superstar Saga and Partners in Time, but those games are much more enjoyable. The game has some positives, but also a lot of negatives.

[@edwardsaldana2534]

@@boo_guy deam team is better than pit

[@boo_guy]

@@edwardsaldana2534 Okay, explain why.

[@edwardsaldana2534]

@@boo_guy graphics, art style, the idea of going inside dreams and giant battles

[@zariaalhajmoustafa2573]

‏‪19:15‬‏ just used your finger you don't need to use your stylus

[@King_Luigi]

That type of touch screen isn't really made for detecting fingers. Especially if you need any kind of speed/precision in your actions.

[@Inactivechannel-r6]

This one was my least favorite Mario and Luigi, it had a lot of potential but it was too bloated and there was so many tutorials. Also I didnt like the art style change

[@edwardsaldana2534]

Partners in time is worse

[@boo_guy]

@@edwardsaldana2534 Paper Jam is worse than both.

[@ClassicGamer9044]

Two months later and still no mario and luigi paper jam retrospective 😑

[@ScionVyse]

I'm working on it! Life has been insane the last few months, so getting time to work on videos has been very difficult. It shouldn't be too much longer though!

[@20000dino]

44:12 Yeah, you don’t know much about art and it shows. Merely adding black outlines to the sprites would’ve done nothing. Dream Team’s more detailed and shaded art style is completely different than Bowser’s Inside Story’s, which is clearly inspired by traditional 2D animation. They are two fundamentally different directions (and Bowser’s Inside Story is infinitely better). Also, no, the animation in DT in not better than BIS. Just because it has more frames, it doesn’t mean it’s better.

[@sergeantcrwhips9437]

16:56 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA XBOX CONTROLER CONFIG AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 🤮

[@ScionVyse]

Haha, I completely autopiloted when I made those images, I guess I defaulted to that layout. Funnily enough, even when I was recording my footage, I never used an Xbox controller, I used my Dualsense with a Nintendo config.

[@Mut4ntG4m3r]

2,1,4,3 is my top 4 of the Games, for whatever reason xD Paper jam i forget about all the time, so ... This crazy fun, cozy Game in the Style of part1 is so much more than the Blend boring Inside Story was... :D I dont think lenghthy Tutorials should Spoil any Game as Long as the Rest ist fun though ;)

[@megamike15]

i always felt this was the game wherre alphadreams ran out of ideas. it was just a less intresting retread of bowser's inside story.

[@doctaterror]

I feel like this was a nosedive for the series, honestly. I'm only ever annoyed to do the dream sections, and battles never really feel "fun" for me. They always just feel like a chore. In Bowser's Inside Story I LOVED battling, I went out of my way to battle every enemy. But here? It's just a chore.

[@nunyabiddeness6544]

This was the last game i ever bought from alphadream, and after having loved Superstar Saga, Partners, and BiS, this game was so disappointing for me i never returned to the mario and luigi series. The art style was a major turnoff (especially when other 3DS mario games, like 3D Land, Dark Moon, and even Sticker Star were all gorgeous), and i never liked the hyper realistic shading and lack of outline of these cartoony worlds. Its the same reason i didnt buy either 3ds remake, i felt like the art was a major downgrade from both original games, with lower framerates, and with side content that isnt very good. The 3DS killed alphadream, and every game they made for it was shit

[@arkthegreenwolfx3627]

So your entire reason for not giving a game a try... Is the art direction... GRAPHICS, DONT, MATTER (that much)