There Are No Old Gods In Dragonflight... Legacies Episode 3 Cinematic Analysis

There are no Old Gods in Dragonflight
There are no Old Gods in Dragonflight
There are no Old Gods in Dragonflight
World of Warcraft Legacies Episode 3 shows us how Neltharian gave in to corruption of Nzoth in the face of Primalist attacks and imprisoned the Dracthyr for 10,000 years. There's a lot to talk about, so join Taliesin as we leap into a deep dive cinematic analysis of the final installment in the series
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[@drachentopf5470]

4:20 Taliesin: "If there is Aspect children, then it is the dracthyr." Actual children of the Aspects: "Well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man."

[@Wayclarke]

Sabellian has entered the chat. Nefarian has entered the chat. Onyxia has entered the chat. Nyxondra has entered the chat. Anachronos has entered the chat. Caelestrasz has entered the chat. Vaelastrasz has entered the chat. Merithra has entered the chat. Arygos has entered the chat. Balacgos has entered the chat. Kirygosa has entered the chat. A vote kick has been started against Taliesin. Taliesin has left the chat.

[@MaxJey2]

@@Wayclarke Taliesinwasright enters the chat ... A vote kick have been started against Taliesinwasright

[@Wayclarke]

@@MaxJey2 But Taliesin was *already* in the chat, doing his bit. ;) That's why he didn't enter.

[@margisama]

@@Wayclarke Also Merithra. Kirygosa, Anachronos, etc (off the top of my head don't know if any of Alex's direct children are still alive and named).

[@Wayclarke]

@@margisama But i already mentioned them! :0

[@teejmorrison]

Wow, if that time lost proto drake theory becomes a reality I will be VERY impressed with both the prediction and Blizzard’s ability to have a killer ending of a story arc.

[@AndresPerez-md9ic]

Honestly it’s the best theory to ever be made, I love that

[@katakemi998]

What's the theory?

[@aahansen82]

This has to be the way now, even if it wasn't planned, this would be amazing!

[@aahansen82]

@@katakemi998 watch the video?

[@matthewcolomy458]

Theory: Neltharion was aware the Old Gods were trying to corrupt him, and was using the Titan Artifact to stave off their influence. he was building the dracthyr army to fight the old gods, but when the primalists attacked, it broke the gauntlet, ruining everything *and* removing the last layer of protection he has against the void to begin with. Afterwards, in the last vestiges of his responsibilities as Earth Warder, refuses to let his army serve those that would enslave him, and puts them to sleep. Thoughts?

[@elasmar1337]

100% agreed, now question is will wow writters have the abilitie to write such a cool thing xD

[@Necrodoge]

@@elasmar1337 damn are y’all always on

[@BrendanZanitCoen]

Or it’s mirroring the fall of nozdormu into murozond. When the titans failed and aspect.

[@Coldkil666]

I actually like the idea of the artifact combating the old gods influence, but then it wouldn't be necessary to have it control the whole dracthyr army. To me Titans and Old Gods are the same thing: enemies. The only thing that changes is their way to "use" Azeroth native species towards their goals.

[@MorganRhysGibbons]

This is the vibe i get as well. Since the Drak'thyr are meant to be playable characters who should have heroic destinies, it would be weird if they were just a discarded pile of chess pieces, but were instead, on some level, Neltharion's efforts to provide a safecheck against the old god powers he knew he was infected with.

[@AllistorRichards]

One thing to note about the idea of the Drak'thyr fighting the primalists in secret: The primalists breath weapons (as shown in the cinematic,) call back to the elements shaman's use explicitly, and implies that they posed a threat explicitly to the domain of Earth that Neltharion was meant to ward. Knowing Neltharion he would have kept this war to himself because in his own mind it was his responsibility inherently, but he would have still built the Drak'thyr army as his answer to said threat.

[@Juniper_Rose]

Oh that's a cool take actually

[@23skiddsy6]

Dragons (and Proto-drakes) are descended from elementals, and the Primalists represent that original connection to the elements rather than the Dragons that left that to align under the Titans. To them, the Dragons are the traitors to their original cause. The keepers and the Titans are the ones that imprisoned the elementals first.

[@AllistorRichards]

also (because I'm just now coming back to this after a day of work,) but there really was no need for *Neltharion* to be 'redeemed,' at all because Neltharion the aspect was actually a more heroic figure. What this cinematic is *actually* supposed to show us is the final piece to the puzzle that was the *tragedy* of Neltharion. Of a heroic protector who was willing to make extreme decisions to protect Azeroth giving in to a great evil and corrupting himself to do just that. In a sense it's supposed to give similar vibes to Illidan taking on the fel to become strong enough to protect his kin honestly, except unlike Illidan there were probably a myriad of other ways the primalists could have been handled had he not isolated himself from the other aspects to carry such a weight on his shoulders.

[@themarathongamer7635]

One of the first things that popped into my mind after the first Legacies chapter was, "what if Nozdormu is doing all of this to find a way to prevent Neltharion from becoming Deathwing...thereby stopping the chain of events that prompted him to transform into Murozond." And in doing that....it actually paved the way for his transformation into Murozond. It made sense in my head anyway. :D

[@teridero1]

Just like in cata, were they said they were created to stop the cataclysm which their creation ultimately led too... Yes good call, thought something similar. However, the fact the titans keep meddling and creating an intricate web of reactions with some order varnish feels like they are trying to constrict or encapsulate some bigger threat...

[@StoryStoat]

This isn't like highly known information but Dracthyr Evoker can use two handed axes. They can use two handed swords, axes, and maces. And there are actually intellect weapons of those for them. So everything we have seen has not been outside the realm of evokers.

[@erickchristensen746]

Good catch there. They are humanoid dragons after all they should be martial adept.

[@kyubii972]

To be honest that's good to know

[@orangejuice481]

Kinda dumb giving a caster class 2h axes they'll never Actually use.

[@dimiturdimitrov6699]

@@orangejuice481 Until a third spec arrives that is tank and is infused in black dragon magic

[@courtneya9731]

@@dimiturdimitrov6699honestly this is was I was originally hoping for when they said their specs were based off of aspect powers

[@KiropLokiIncarnate]

It's actually pretty likely that the Titan Artifact that Neltharion was using was, while not directly Tyr's hand, was made from it. Because there's an important fact that Taliesin and a lot of chat seemed to miss- Tyr possessed THREE hands during his lifetime- he was created with two, one which got bitten off by Galakrond and was replaced with a silver hand. Tyr's Fall (Tirisfal) only contains that silver hand as well as the hand that wasn't bitten off- the original one would presumably be lying where Galakrond fell.

[@patrickelmasian1079]

So, Tyr's Hand is/was in Northrend area? The one bitten off?

[@lukasroessler5511]

That is a nice theory but, for once, the original Tyr hand should be as giant as the silver hand at tirisfal (and i dont really believe the "it changes shapes for the user" thing) and it's possible that tyrs hand was straight up eaten by galakrond right? I mean his thing was eating shit. I would however believe that it's a special artifact created either by titan keepers or straight up by neltharion with titan power, considering that neltharion was a dude who was constantly creating artifacts

[@Ozraevun]

@@lukasroessler5511 while I do agree to most of what you said, maybe it was impossible for Galakrond to digest or at least partially digest Tyr's hand, and Neltharion made his artifact from what was left of it? Tho you theory is most likely more accurate than my little pondering ^^ I just thought that Titans were built differently compared to other lesser existences so maybe Galakrond was unable to digest the material Tyr's body was made of, even if he could break it? I dunno xD

[@fightingfaerie]

I think it’s interesting learning dracthyr were controlled. For a character to learn their loyalty and obedience was “fake” has to be a huge revelation.

[@sarahdees9566]

Just like the original Wrath death night starting area!

[@fightingfaerie]

@@sarahdees9566 Well DK knew they were being controlled. I think the Lich King says something about it. The dracthyr though thought their dedication was due to true loyalty, that they loved their General and creator. To realize that was something that was forced on would trigger some soul searching. “Why didn’t Neltharion trust us?” “Would I have still been loyal without the control?” “How much of my feelings are my own sentiments and not the influence of the Titan artifact?” For RPers this adds a whole new layer to how they were planning on playing their dracthyr. I’m actually surprised and excited about this development. I wonder how many are having to rethink their plan.

[@erickchristensen746]

The DK’s of the Ebon Blade weren’t under direct control of Arthas like most of the undead, he said something about how the leash weakened the old death knights so he made it that way to make them stronger. Arthas also fed them lies to keep them on a different kind of leash, which breaks at the end of the DK Wrath tutorial story and that specific faction of DK’s rebels(lot of folks thought it was all DK’s that betrayed Arthas for some reason but this isn’t true he had plenty of others)

[@bumblebee8410]

Interesting to compare Death magic mind control to Order magic mind control. Sylvanas hated being controlled, pushed against it and saw herself do terrible things - Emberthal felt loyal, proud both when controlled and even in her memory of the time.

[@ronholmesuk825]

Tali, this is what you do best of all. Nice job.

[@andrewpaul8732]

He's on pyromancer levels of analysis

[@sergioricardor.teixeira3157]

Runas turning into a withered is the same feeling as Nozdormu turning into Time lost Protodrake for me, if it really happens

[@MiaThorsteinsson]

That was absolutely hearthbreaking to play through!

[@MrPelao911]

Nooooo my boy Runas😢i had completely blocked that traumatic memory.......ty Sergio for bringing that pain back lol

[@sheepalot9924]

I actually think the fact that Noz is so big on free will here to be another sign that he's Murozond in this. The old gods have always been big on choice and free will, whereas the titans are the ones trying to maintain 'one true timeline'

[@jaydub8576]

I like how the story is very much more open ended than its been in a while.

[@Skollshorties]

I still believe that Neltharion in that moment surrendered to the Old Gods to save the Dracthyr, and obviously himself, but in terms of the character of Neltharion in his life he still is a tragic figure. A villain yes, but his history and story is a sad one. I hope we get to see more of that side of him throughout the expansion before his total turn.

[@099Nitro]

You ask for a Deathwing redemption yet on twitter you can't shut up how bad Sylvanas and the Jailer are. Double standards much?

[@Skollshorties]

@Invictus_trax Well, he wasn't always ALWAYS a hungry dickhead there was a time where he wasn't. This in particular is basically just the start of Deathwing.

[@edelleaa]

@@099Nitro they only hate retconning when they don't like the story direction, but when it's like this it's suddenly fine

[@099Nitro]

@@edelleaa Deathwing was a decent bad guy. Let it stay that way instead of trying to turn him into a misunderstood anti hero.

[@edelleaa]

@@099Nitro i agree... but too late for that, i think they will fully go the illidan anti hero route.. i'm actually surprised most people are okay with this.

[@Gablork]

The Gauntlet looks more like a First One artifact than a Titan's. The circle pattern looks like something out of Oribos

[@simongosimon]

What did the first ones even fucking end up beinh

[@LiamLefort]

Can we keep that expensions if we can call it that where it belongs ? In the TRASH.

[@JoeSilverhand]

Bliz animation team perfectly nailing Emberthal's expressions and body language is so satisfying to behold.

[@jakkaljakobie8774]

Ive thought for years that we are azeroth's immune system. Everything we do seems to be in defense of azeroth on some level, regardless of how good or evil our actions seem to be. Looking at the horde bfa campaign in particular.

[@Ozraevun]

maybe we are, but we're like white blood cells that tries to destroy anything we THINK might harm her, even tho we end up making it worse.

[@jakkaljakobie8774]

@@Ozraevun yes, exactly!

[@Zenith118]

I got major Lion King vibes from the opening scene, with Nozdormu talking from behind a veil of sand to, in a sense, his child, and passing on his wisdom. The color scheme and motifs in this one were really good.

[@JoULove]

A small thing, but in the shot where we see Nelfarion's control fade from the Drakthyrs' eyes, there is a red Drakthyr with yellow eyes and a green-ish (could be blue, hard to tell with the sepia tint to everything) with blue eyes. Not super subtle hint at them now being free to choose different factions if it's not accidental.

[@galis001]

@56:11 Norzdormu: "You must decide which path to take" Implied: Between Raiding, Mythic Plus, and Crafting

[@Coldkil666]

T&E always top notch content. (edited XD) I don't think Neltharion is redeemed, if anything we know even better how he gets corrupted and why, fusing nicely with the lore DF is starting to present us. I'm pretty sure we're going full old gods before the end of the expansion.

[@KRYPT1KALGaming]

T & E :) Taliesin and Evitel But I agree!!

[@wadeyyy]

I hope so. The old gods for me are always the most thrilling plot points in the story.

[@BattleF08]

My theory of why they were locked away would be, that he was indeed proud of them, but they had borne witness to his fall, and since he could no longer control them and thus keep them quiet, they had become a risk. Sealing them away as a useful tool for later makes sense. Except when the need for secrecy disappeared, the Dragon Isles had been locked away and they were out of his reach. Which is when he began his experiments again.

[@Brooke-rw8rc]

fun fact: Nozdormu and Murozond are 8 letters long. So is Taliesin! If Taliesin became corrupted by the old gods and changed his name with the same scheme, it would be either Inselati or Insaleti, depending on which way you move the o's.

[@MrAndreiPegasus]

It's interesting that what kept Neltharion from being fully corrupted was the Dracthyrs. Once he lose the control over the Dracthyrs he "instantly" appeal to the old gods. So, by extrapolation, you could say that the Dracthyrs will keep Azeroth from falling in the hands of the old gods. That's why they are so important.

[@kira-tp4xl]

But there are no old gods in dragonflight...o.o

[@daemonbane1]

Id say this is more a product of the time line being a creative interpretation that Taliesin mentioned also happened in the first 'episode' rather than an 'instant' effect - events that verifiably happened weeks\months\years apart are taking place within the same memory\scene. I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, but also keep in mind that Nozdormu was not recognized instantly, and in the second episode explained that that was because the aspects only took their humanoid forms later on when they wanted to engage with the 'lesser races' - The scene here occurs before dragons started engaging with the rest of the world, which would mean that Neltharion couldn't possibly have been in human-form at the time of the scene, so clearly there's a bit of creative license for the benefit of us as the viewers (or just the animation team not paying quite enough attention to the order of events)

[@probablydanny569]

i think they the dracthyr will be an assist for murozond in some way! which fits the old god corrupt aspect of it

[@kaelbeuk1]

I think it's Neltharion's last embers of nobility being snuffed out

[@crazyshrum]

4 years of college with a degree in Geology, all for this video. My school loan debt has now been worth it.

[@dantepeterson556]

Tali! People seem to not notice that in the beginning when Nozdormu eyes are bright and his body is in shadow….. his voice changes darker. Moruzond! I say Yes! Haha

[@JakeSezz]

Glad I wasn’t the only person that felt like there was a similarity with the fall of the Dracthyr & fall of the Valkyries lmao

[@chrisprsg]

Tali, I gotta tell you, your videos analysing these cinematics are the best on yt. You see so much more between the lines and also somehow gave me goosebumps when making the analogy between the devs and the dracthyr. 11/10 for me.

[@gorogg_]

Hour long Taliesin and Evitel video? Hell yes.

[@IronDM]

I think that the aspects are under a light mind control/influence and when nozdormu finds out he rebels and turns. That’s why he’s so positive about everything titans

[@arbenzotaj8342]

no.

[@jesserothhammer7378]

@@arbenzotaj8342 lol what do you mean, "no"? Do you have a real counter point? Because books written by Odin have already been found in beta saying mind control water was used on dragons to ingratiate themselves to the Titans and Tian Keepers. Not agreeing or believing is one thing, but there is no certainty at this point that the Aspects weren't also roofied by Odin.

[@varden506]

@@jesserothhammer7378 seriously though. So many people get upset when the lore doesn’t follow exactly what they demand of it and the comments on this channel prove that haha bunch of children whining their story book doesn’t suit them specifically and directly 🤣

[@remus2565]

I think Nozdorumu is going to have us either fix the gauntlet or he will steal it. And he will use that to take a portion of the Dracthyr with him to turn them into his Infinite Dragonflight. Like he is making her remember everything so that he can follow and do what Neltharion did, to have his own army bent to his will.

[@Bodehn]

Personally, if we are to save Nozdormu from becoming Murozond, I think it'll take a very different turn; I think we'll split him in two, like a branching of a timeline. One branch becomes Murozond, setting in motion that time loop and ensuring that he becomes what he's supposed to be. The other remains Nozdormu, aghast at what we've done, literally breaking time it's self to save him, and he promptly departs to try and find a way to undo what we've done. If I were one of the writers behind this plot point, I'd say it would lead into a section where we chase Nozdormu through time, ironically with the aid of Murozond, as Nozdormu goes back through time at multiple important points in WoW's history, to try and prevent us from saving him. Murozond, meanwhile, is making multiple snarky comments, and just genuinely loving how many alterations to time we're making, how many branches off the "true" timeline we're creating. It could even be a new "The Many Deaths of Chromie" scenario, where we have a limited amount of time to stop Nozdormu from potentially messing with time even further in his panic. Then, to round it all off, he and Murozond have some form of confrontation, either with words or through combat, are evenly matched, and the resulting conflicting of time energies reveals whatever bad future Murozond said he saw in the End Time Dungeon, at which point he goes off to try and stop it, using the many branches of time we accidentally created earlier to create and recruit the Infinite Dragonflight. That leaves us with a Nozdormu, who's both thankful that we've given him a new lease on life, but also a new sense of "Oh no, the Mortals have a potential that terrifies even ME"

[@marshallmecham1787]

Work for blizzard please

[@addiwoodrish4852]

In your version Nozdromu going through time trying to stop us sounds suspiciously exactly like what Murozond does... So we were the Old Gods all along, huh.

[@Bodehn]

@@addiwoodrish4852 The funny thing is, that's exactly what I was going for. Just the pure irony of Nozdormu doing exactly he shouldn't do, and as such, "becoming" Murozond in an entirely different way, all out of a misguided attempt to "fix" the timeline

[@mattwo7]

Island hidden in mist, new class AND race at the same time, the devs actually enjoying their jobs again... Yep, this is MoP 2: Draconic Anima Boogaloo. ♪DRAAAAAGOOOON SOOOOOUUUUL♪

[@luckmyst3r986]

A theory I really like is that at 45:22 When she asks for conformation if that's why they were awakened, and he does not answer it could tell us a lot of things but the fact the camera focuses on him specifically could mean that either he knows the real reason or that he is the real reason Neltharion didn't kill them.

[@DifferentLOL]

The ending of the analysis made a bit emotional, ngl. Thank you Tali!

[@Zetherior]

I think what we're seeing is, at face value, an entertaining prelude to the expansion.. but more importantly, a foundational foothold in to the titans and all of their creations, being just as much of a threat to free will as every other cosmic force to date.

[@proceduraldad2578]

Honestly Tali the WoW community does not deserve you; you had me in tears in your "meta commentary" section. What an incredible thought truly. Hats off.

[@proceduraldad2578]

Geez and I wrote this comment BEFORE getting to the TLPD thing. Where do you come up with this stuff?! Brilliant

[@perer005]

Gold Standard for cinematic analysis!

[@ezterion]

I hope there are old god whispers through ALL of dragonflight just to mess with Taliesin. No actual old gods, just whispers.

[@Alexational]

One thing to keep in mind that i caught from Preach's visit to Blizzard and that he might touch on in details in the videos following that visit but he shared it on stream was: The story guys told him that they are not writing this as one expansion story, this is a new arc that will span multiple expansions so it will be interesting to see how the world and story is built with this in mind

[@AzelasEM]

The Dracthyr falling as they die, and them being puppets, reminds me a lot of Final Fantasy 9. Vivi, a sentient Black Mage, sees countless Black Mage puppets get killed by one of their own, in a scene somewhat similar to this one.

[@NightWing1800]

I like the idea of Nozy becoming a protodrake again, and I like it a lot because of the first new cinematic. Him chatting all that shit about the protodrakes and like "We had this intelligence the others didn't" and then that ending with him looping back to that protodrake form to not be himself and not become Muri would be great.

[@CrystalChemello]

Unsure its Murozond because Nozdormu always had yellow or golden eyes. His description on WoWWiki even has this line about him "His eyes are made from gemstones, the color of the sun." But if you watch the dragon soul cinematic his eyes ARE glowing blue, but then lose the glow and are golden behind the glow. So what if this is Nozdormu from before Dragonsoul? he was lost in time for ages before Cata and maybe he came here in the timeline to discover more about deathwing FOR the fight ahead of him.

[@Khiswow]

My bet for the end of the raid is that Nozdormu will take the same decision than Nefarian, certainly helped by the fact that he knows we will kill him in the future.

[@PearseNation]

That moment of turning to the old gods is Deathwing’s “moral event horizon”. The moment of no turning back. That’s what I think this depicts and it doesn’t invalidate the slow decent at all.

[@mattwo7]

2:41 SKEWLBETA: "da'rude the sandstorm god" You know, I wouldn't put it past Blizzard to make such an outdated reference to an old meme like that lol.

[@osheroth]

Man, it comforts me to know that this expansion won't feature Murozond and Old Gods at all.

[@Linsidic]

Pretty sure that's just Nozdormu. If you remember in the Dracthyr starting zone Emberthal said she was going to stay, and at the end we find Noz help the Dracthyr with sands of time to speed up their wings. Pretty sure he came to visit for the reasons we find in the cinematics.

[@popgozip]

The timelost protodrake idea I absolutely love!

[@DataDietz]

Nzoth made the same kind of "deal right on deaths doorstep" with Azshara when you think about it with the water and the lost city.

[@Obsidian0Sky]

BRO. You got me at he time lost protodrake. well done. holy crap.

[@ZARRATH22]

Was literally waiting for this as soon as finished watching the cinematic.

[@AlexSaheli]

Haha the last points about Nozdormu is just amazing

[@85jic]

The Old Gods are my favorite enemy in WoW. And I hope they never fully get defeated/go away.

[@MuzzaiaH]

There really are very few things that makes me happier than a new cinematic analysis

[@ironghost-ug2si]

Great analysis. I’m also glad that you noticed how much of a tease it is, and how contradictory it is, that the Dracthyr can only be casters, yet in these cinematics they are said to be great warriors and are depicted as fighting with melee weapons. I hope Blizzard recognizes all of the comments about this and either adds a third specialization (Tank hopefully), or allows them to be warriors. As a side note, I would hope that if Blizzard does add a melee option for the Dracthyr that they would also add a more muscular and imposing option for their character models.

[@epic-o2215]

people who are saying that only this moment was the moment he became deathwing are just not paying attention> In the previous cinematic it was already suggested he had been hearing whispers , isolating himself from the rest, and just generally acting paranoid. Like Tali is saying, there has to be a big moment where the switch goes but it doesn't mean that there was no build up

[@lexcellent99]

I thought it was interesting that every new class added to the game have been soldiers of a recontextualized villain. Will the next class be garrosh's personal army?

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

Maybe you're new to wow, but those are called orc's and both versions of them are in the game

[@lexcellent99]

@@jtowensbyiii6018 maybe you're new to sarcasm, but I picked that up :)

[@taneelbrightblade6622]

I would role a Garrosh personal secret old god powered orc

[@trapjack5076]

Order's big fib: "Look, the Primals are kicking our teeth in and we want to win. Let's cut a deal with the Creepy Guy with the ouija board." Be honest - we've met that guy.

[@TastyScotch]

Nozdormu’s pause and lack of verbal confirmation works great from a storytelling aspect. Its easily either exactly as it looks, that the primalists are the baddies. But can just as easily be him choosing not to mention thst he himself (moruzond) is the baddie. Or that the primalists are themselves controlled… by something far more sinister…

[@carrieschutrick8550]

One could argue that Nozdormu not confirming that the old enemy was the Primalists is him *taking advantage* of 'the way language works'. Emberthal will assume he's agreeing because that's how it works, and possibly that's what he wants - for her to assume without him having to lie outright.

I love those cinematic analysis videos, always learn something I have missed :)

[@fraser7211]

I think Taliesin is starting a Mephisto meme for Murazond lol

[@CuteSeamus]

am i the only one who enjoys how handsome Taliesin looks in his hoodie?

[@mattwo7]

What if the glove _isn't_ on the wrong hand but Neltharion's visage is left-handed and it adapted to that? There's art of Deathwing in visage form wielding his 2h mace in a stance facing to his left and concept art of him holding it with it pointing towards the ground with just his left hand so there's evidence to suggest the visage form is left-handed.

[@christabelle__]

I couldn't stop laughing at the hand-thing, and yet MORE Thanos/Avengers references.

[@wldchrstphr1]

When the dragons thought they had defeated Deathwing, he was underground, healing. Neltharian has been a part of each of the cinematics. The Drakthyr are going to have to make a difficult choice. What if that choice is to turn on their former general, who has released the primalists (after the old gods have corrupted them), which could explain how they are now escaping their prisons. We know that Illidan, being infused with fel energy, now goes to the twisting nether, rather than the shadowlands. What if Deathwing is returning from the void? Being the "ancient evil" that is returning? Probably not, but still...

[@thebytorsnowdog9539]

It was telling that when the infinity gauntlet breaks, we can suddenly see the different colours of the Dracthyr, before this they all seem dark / black dragonflight but afterwards there are reds and greens amongst them

[@chillgaze]

The cycling out of dungeons in M+ could play into this as well, if we end up teaming up with the Primalists, we won't want to be running Ruby Life Pools on the side.

[@dawoifee]

Maybe the Glove artifact was not to rule the Dracthyr but to protect him from Old God Influence. He felt he is going mad and looked for protection.

[@scottmoney6523]

My main this expansion is a Shaman because I’m excited about the talent trees for one. Part of it though is the fact that I’m super excited to be dealing with the primalists from the point of view of a Shaman. It already feels weird in the elemental storms fighting a bunch of shamans.

[@mosspiglet2897]

I love your idea about what Nozdormu could become to escape his fate. That would be fantastic.

[@Zanodia]

We are entities that select adventurers at their physical prime, overwrite their minds, turning them into flesh puppets that cannot take any action without our input and force them into life-or-death situations against their will. Imagine being unable to move for hours on end because your puppeteer has gone afk or being forced into ERP.

[@paulemery5110]

I think this cinematic actually ends the murozond theory pretty neatly, not by completely discrediting it (because I doubt anyone who worked on these thought fans would go that way) but rather by making it clear that this is the start of his fall. The gauntlet is the key for me, showing that titan magic has the power to control dragonkind, I suspect Nozdormu will find and study it, which will lead directly to his fall.

[@Ozraevun]

Imagine if the final boss of DF is a corrupted Azeroth that we need to cleanse. Also jokes on us, Neltharion's final move wasn't to freeze the Dracthyr, it was locking them as ONLY being Evokers despite knowing their potential to be so much MORE. He really got us with that move.

[@brjinx]

"This is Pearl Harbor, an enemy announcing themselves." This right here was a great comparison and line.

[@macewindu9100]

It's not though cause we new they were coming, we just did nothing to stop them.

[@AlexSaheli]

I love it how deep you are Tali

[@fuzzysham88]

Time lost proto-dormu: only you know of my true fate, adventurer... Adventurer: until someone builds a statue in the middle of Dalaran that shows everyone that touches it

[@Brooke-rw8rc]

Tali, one point you're missing is WHY Nozzie can't see Old God stuff: we're told in Legion that the Light can see all of time that is affected by the Light and the Void can see all of time affected by the Void, and that's why neither can see what the other does. So it's reasonable to assume that Nozdormu can only see all timelines that are affected by the Arcane or Titan magic. Perhaps this is how the First Ones intended to balance the 6 forces: no matter how well one of them plans in over-throwing the others, the other 5 can always do things the aggressor could never possibly expect.

[@TheLun4tic]

The Old Gods work like Storytellers who place loose ends everywhere in their stories to elaborate the story further in a sequel later on. From the current perspective we could say that "The King of Diamonds has been made a pawn" if we consider Neltharion as "King of Diamonds" on a Cosmic Scale.

[@brandonallen2357]

Fantastic analysis!! Thank you for taking the time to share your observations and opinions on these videos. It's truly interesting and appreciated

[@Zhienerich]

I think Emberthal and the drachtyr will play directly into why and when Nozdormu turns into Murozond, and all of this was him wanting to find out why he will make the choices he knows he is going to take in the future.

[@katieskarlette]

Holy crap, the Time Lost Nozdormu theory blew my mind! That would be amazing.

[@BountyBjorn]

If you read the text for the Time Lost Proto Drake it makes that theory sound very possible, it could also just in general be Nozdormu when he was gettin his powers teleport through time because he didnt know what to do so in those split moments of evolution he teleported through all of time. Also would explain the rare spawn.

[@hamptonnager4104]

That glove is a titan construct that wards old god influence. Neltharion made it himself or better a keeper or a titan made it to contain the old god influence that Nelthy either had nacsent or had susceptibility for.

[@SomeStrangeMan]

I think Neltharians corruption is more like an alcoholic's descent into alcoholism. The first time they give into peer pressure and have booze isn't when they become alcoholics - Nelfarian gives in to the whispers and uses old god power, just once, isn't when he became full corrupted.

[@terriblefrosting]

Took my son through StormStout the other day, he went absolutely NUTS with joy playing through that, it's her favorite dungeon now.

[@Carl5156]

Kudos to those who managed to watch a 60 minute video in the 20 minutes since upload. Some of the feedback in comments is already tremendous. 😂

[@williamcolon1891]

would be kinda dope if there was a boss fight where something wonky happens to Nozdormu and we go through phases of fighting through time but the boss changes to different dragons we've fought in older raids that have like two mechanics each or something of the sort, but one health bar where at a certain percentage it'll change dragons (maybe even a random pick of like 3 where its a pool of dragons to add some "I wonder who it is this time" fun to it.) Nice lore refresher and a lil nostalgia trip

[@ytubestolemyhandle]

"order magic" what a nice way to reference mind control lmao

[@Powerhugful]

What's puzzling me the most is how all this sand does get in their eyes...

[@Chunkywhop]

I feel like Neltharion put the dracthyr in stasis, because they would've followed him even as death wing, eventually being corrupted and destroying the world. Haven't played the beta and avoided much of the spoils, but I wondered if he somehow was able to successfully make the dracthyr untainted of old god and titan influence. Making them one of the best chances azeroth has.

[@mattwo7]

18:22 Order magic isn't limited to arcane, or did you forget about the Lightbound Dranei lightforging non-consensually and effectively _brainwashing_ the Mag'har in the alternate Draneor and how Xe'ra tried to do the same to Illiadin? (In fact the Light Mother might actually be the alternate Xe'ra) No, that's not arcane magic, that's Spark of Tyr-powered _light_ magic.

[@B-Reel929]

For the first time since I was a young man, I'm freaking STOKED to play WOW....

[@artimusofthemoon2419]

One theory I had was this is actually his first acceptance of their power and like with some anime characters, he keeps using it in secret til he becomes the insane aspect we take down first in war of the ancients then in cata. So its still an erosion but he thinks its a powerup to resolve problems in his domain. Also side note for the time lost protodrake- if that were to be him he dies in draenor for some reason

[@RotoEve]

When it comes to Murozond, an interesting thought is that we're all assuming it's a fall from grace, him falling to evil. But this entire time we've been recontextualising the titans as a potential bad thing, that their ways aren't exactly the grand good we've always thought them to be. Nozdormu's whole deal is protecting the "one true timeline", making sure only it comes, and purging any anomalies that might steer it... basically anywhere but there. But that true timeline is one granted to him through the Titans specifically. With that in mind, Murozond's whole deal has been wanting to alter the timeline, to bring around the End Times, which he proclaims isn't the true end of the world, but a mercy compared to what he had seen. "A blessing we simply cannot comprehend". We're thinking that Nozdormu realising the Titan's potential issues is what makes him turn and want to change that future, but if we assume that future ain't too good for the rest of us now with the new contextualisation, what if his turn is actually a good thing. A cementing of him changing his perspective to accept alternate possibilities (after all, protecting a one true timeline is closing the door to potential better possibilities and outcomes). This would go hand in hand with the thought of teaming up with the Infinite's as well. Just thoughts whilst thinking on him and the possibilities behind his turn.

[@Ilcka]

take a shot every time tali says' hand of tyr'

[@terriblefrosting]

"Falling", I dispute the whole "Beltharion fell" idea, rather, he reached for the power to do his job. The corruption came after.

[@Eucep]

My personal guess the gauntlet is 'iron grip' or Jarnglofar. An item associated to Thor to wield Mjolnir, but I think in this case rather then obtained by Thorim, this one was given to Neltharion by Odyn in order for Odyn to have control over the aspects (and obviously failing). It would just be up his alley.

[@derpaderpaderpader]

Maybe the artifact also assisted Neltharion in resisting the full power of the whispers. It isn't until the artifact is shatters that he invokes their power