Talk-Jitsu Episode 37: Greg Souders' Ecological Approach, No-Gi vs Gi BJJ, Instructionals? & More!

[@MartialRoller-jd2hp]

The ecological approach is great for enhancing emergent spontaneous behaviors.

[@hudsondecker5385]

Great job as usual! Also bring him back to have Jordan speak with him. I think what Greg does and what Jordan does has the potential for massive upside nonlinear development!!(maybe you guys could all be the new fanatics...)

[@morganfrazer158]

Deagle catching strays 😂😂😂

[@overrideFunction]

Im really glad Joey asked for some definitions. As someone not at all familiar with this, there was way too much jargon to dig through. It's an interesting theory, one I think exploring would be fun.

[@Backgammon312]

Moving to Rockville today and standard Jiu jistu was the first option that popped up on google maps! Looks like I’m in for a whole new world on my BJJ journey!!

[@MyJiuJitsu]

Hands down on the the way I have gotten better is recording and watching my footage. Great episode, thanks for setting the example.

[@yegpizzareviewguy]

I am already seeing the results in the kickboxing class

[@MartialRoller-jd2hp]

Joey could you share some of the books you read on the matter?

[@S18MMA]

Absolutely brilliant thank you

[@TallahasseeJiuJitsu]

Great listen. Greg is doing an amazing job.

[@logman5357]

Great stuff 🎉

[@ericparis224]

The gi is for those guys that want a photo opp beside their kid in the PJ's and new blue belt it means a lot to them and social media for their new identity. As for anyone else just interested in grappling the PJ's are not needed for identity as grappling is just a thing we do not who you are.

[@tyrellanderson5312]

Can you share the video of Greg critiquing other peoples games please?

[@JustGoVegan]

Yeeeeeeesss finallly

[@GrapplingAutist]

Great podcast! We've been using the CLA for about a year now in our gym. 1.5 years open - we've had amazing results!

[@KodiakCombat]

What academy?

[@andydufresne2818]

No need to over-complicate Jiu-Jitsu but the name does give you a catchy gimmick.

[@rollinOnCode]

wow you got the great greg souders! yes!

[@wm6549]

Good stuff! Joey should do more solo episodes. (I do miss Jordan and Mike though.)

[@JoeyBoretski]

Thank you! I plan to do more interview episodes for weeks when the 3 of us cant record. if you have any people youd like to here me talk to let me know!

[@Luc-1991]

does anyone know books that are based on concepts like being discussed at 49:40?

[@BeginnerMindset]

The existential crisis happened to me two weeks ago and I am still feeling waves of realizations. Changed my class completely (for the betterment of everyone). What you guys are saying really resonates with me.

[@JoeyBoretski]

Really glad you liked it. The crisis is hard but I think we will be better coaches because of it

[@af4396]

To me there is definitly a need for both detailed learning and studying of techniques and execution, and playful training with specific tasks to get repetition in specific, but dynamic, situations, then slowly building up to increasing variables. But I wouldn't give up drilling and improving fundamental movements either because they create speed WITH precision and also improve finishing. Stand on the shoulder of giants AND do ecological training. As they say, the devil is always in the details, and the details don't come just from playing around.

[@fearthetriangle]

This approach is skipping the generational knowledge transfer. Not learning from past generations. Although imagination is worth more than knowledge. Learning from your pears and having the correct information instead of wasting years trying to come up with it yourself. That being said you should always use your imagination to add your own as well. Skipping the knowledge transfer is a mistake in my opinion for most people. This training method is good for an advanced athlete/artist. But not solely.

[@JoeyBoretski]

the role of the coach in this method is to create 'games' to develop skills. if the coach is actually good at their job this knowledge is passed on through game design. also simply telling someone what you know doesn't mean THEY now know it.

[@fearthetriangle]

@@JoeyBoretski I understand the role of the coach in this method. In my opinion it skips the generational knowledge transfer that saves time on the mats.

[@JoeyBoretski]

@fearthetriangle this hasn't been my experience so far using this method and im sure my students would agree.

[@fearthetriangle]

@@JoeyBoretski it is a good method but not solely in my opinion. Only time will tell.

[@talkjitsu]

I (Jordan) agree. I think a combination of both is best personally.

[@cb4354]

I have been doing BJJ for years and one of my coaches in the past few months have been doing these games approach and I noticed my game is skyrocketing since. I wish I was doing this as a new white belt vs a coach showing like 3-4 moves in 1 hr and getting you to drill it on a non resistant partner for like 30 minutes where you forget most of it. Its not a waste doing it this way persay because you can still improve by doing it a lot but I feel like its very inefficient of time. IMO these games are more like detailed situational sparring within situational sparring which gives you more sparring time in each class and it compounding longer term will speed up the progression. I think a lot of people against the game idea is trying to protect their own ego because in these games your ego gets tested a lot because you can be working on potential weaknesses and positions you rarely see your self in regular sparring or even situational sparring etc.

[@JoeyBoretski]

I think a lot of people are resistant to the idea of learning this way because it's new and it conflicts with the way they 'learned' coming up through the ranks. It was really hard for me to admit I was not doing a good job as a coach by just doing things the way they've always been done and having to learn a new skill and adapt.

[@jedsanford7879]

when you look at interviews with the Gracies talking about how they learned BJJ, they never really demonstrated or drilled techniques. They didn't figure these things out or teach them to each other by drilling. Now we need to get out of this idea of Gracie worship a bit, Helio was not a prophet. Creativity thrives in environments where there is need or direction, ie a problem to prompt the necessity of creation, and a belief that everything is possible. So many things were never explored because of the general assumption that "this isn't possible" and when people starting believing wait, maybe there is more that is possible here. And then we have creative break throughs. The problem arises when you talk about monetizing what you have discovered. People want to pay for a class and they want to be taught "Moves". They want to go home and say, I learned the Kimura move today. Technique and drilling arises as simply a sort of in game currency to track progression. "I'm working on Reverse Dela Riva right now" Yeah but are you? How's that going? Its going like shit lol because every time you try and "do" a move you get crushed. I think Gregs definition of Jiu Jitsu is extremely important to remember in the construction of all tasks. "Making and maintaining connections in order to gain access to center mass and immobilize the opponent for the purpose of strangulation and breaking. " What we see from the work of people like Priit Mikelson and Chris Paines is that we are not consistently challenging all of these. We are not consistently challenging connections. We are not consistently challenging pinning. Each player in the game has the ability to go either way on the scale, they can make and maintain connections or remove opponents connections at any time. They can immobilize or prevent immobilization. If we are practicing this game, but removing any of these core objectives in that practice, we create an environment of negative feedback. What works shouldn't work, and Priit and his students are calling that out. Its not to say many sweeps don't exist, but they kind of shouldn't, because one player is simply accepting shitty sweeps as a "move".

[@MyJiuJitsu]

All due respect to the Gracie's, but they are not the end all or be all of jiu jitsu.

[@jedsanford7879]

@@MyJiuJitsu oh absolutely. Gracie worship is becoming a threat to the sport imo and drilling a symptom of this.

[@techniquejiujitsu8832]

How the Gracie family got good and how they tell the world to get good, is not the same thing.

[@ericparis224]

The Gi is dead as disco as far as fan interest and growth of sport not to mention competitors choice options and money it's not even close. Still a cool tool and a cool sport but it's changing now and one is cleary breaking away to a new sport that it becoming more popular.