Japheth-(SG) | Obey God Or Go To Hell | Talk Heathen 06.21

Talk Heathen 06.21 for May 22, 2022 with Katy Montgomerie and Jmike.
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WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
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NOTES
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
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/ talkheathen is the official channel of Talk Heathen. "Talk Heathen" is a trademark of the ACA.
Copyright © 2022 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.

[@artistjoh]

The difference between Japeth and myself is that according to his philosophy, he doesn’t murder some only because he is frightened of punishment, while I don’t murder because I don’t want to.

[@japheth7000]

Only Jehovah God alone has necessary existence. Morality serves a function when there is more than one conscious being sharing a common reality. Suppose a conscious being exists all by himself in a reality, morality serves no function. As such morality does not have necessary existence. You give the example of murder. Murder is only possible because God created the physical reality in which physical death is possible. God has the power to create every human with a body that does not have physical death. I forgot to add an important point in the call: Morality for the creatures, is about fulfilling the intended design of the designer. Since the designer designed under what conditions the creatures reached optimum well-being, the creatures ought to obey the creator to fulfill the intended design. Those who are walking with God are motivated primarily by love. I don't murder because I don't want to.

[@Reno_Slim]

@@japheth7000 A character from a book has "neccessary existence"? You sound profoundly delusional with no ability to distinguish between imaginary things and real things.

[@lnsflare1]

@@japheth7000 Yahweh explicitly commanded many horrific murders in the Bible.

[@japheth7000]

​@@lnsflare1 Only those who are punished by God have their well-being taken away. If you join God's team and obey God, God takes care of your well-being. Jehovah commands horrific murders? Where? A murder is horrific if torture or slow death is involved. In an instant death scenario without torture or slow death, I see no basis to classify the kill as horrific. I have read the Bible from cover to cover, I don't recall God has ever commanded someone to torture another person or cause a slow death to another person. I realize that those who die in unbelief, will be tortured in hell. The tasks of torturing unbelievers in hell are not given to humans. Everyone on the planet has a chance to enter into Paradise and avoid hell. By obeying God. You have a genuine choice to avoid the bad outcome of going to hell - all you have to do is to obey God. There is nobody who ends-up in hell without the ability to do otherwise.

[@lnsflare1]

@@japheth7000 That's a lot of words to do that you're fine with dashing babies against the rocks, or offering your own children as burnt offerings, or committing many acts of genocide and land theft, or keeping tens of thousands of virgin girls as sex slaves for the rest of their lives after you slaughtered everyone else they knew, just as long as the voices in your head that commanded you to do that said that they were Yahweh.

[@nickm764]

It's so weird how God sounds like the imaginings of a Bronze Age collection of fire side stories.

[@karlrschneider]

Inevitability isn't weird. ;D

[@e.m.b2834]

religion turns peoples brains to mush... this caller is a prime example

[@amtlpaul]

Free will: do as I say, or else!

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

A tribe in Africa has made an idol to the god of smallpox. You worship this God in the hopes that the scourge spares you. This is analogous to what I would feel if the Old Testament God actually existed. Another plague to be managed as best we could.

[@kidslovesatan34]

Christian comedy just writes itself.

[@2msystems740]

No, no, no... Religious comedy writes itself. All of them are absolute gems when trying to illustrate logic and reason.

[@2msystems740]

@James Henry Smith Yup, haven't seen any evidence for yahweh, allah, vishnu, buddha, thor bael. But I believe in all of them. Are you nucking futs ?

[@m0xiethekidd]

@@2msystems740Buddha isn’t a god not a deity with powers just some rich monk who valued life

[@2msystems740]

@@m0xiethekidd Agree, maybe not seen as a god or deity. But certainly as an "object" of worship?

[@lxw6657]

The funny thing is when you ask people why they believe in anything its never an actual reason​@@2msystems740

[@lethewaterkai7503]

this sounds like a person that sure loves their authoritarian leadership.

[@perryegolson833]

This guy would love it here. This is one immigrant that the Republican fascists would welcome with open arms.

[@oldmanaz.6811]

Gotta love a boot licker, cause their masters don't.

[@oldmanaz.6811]

@@perryegolson833 oh cause ain't no boot lickers on the democratic side right? Gotta love biases.

[@starfishsystems]

He's in Singapore, which is a pretty authoritarian place, so it's not entirely surprising that it might color his thinking.

[@bms77]

@@oldmanaz.6811 didn’t say that… there’s just a LOT more on the Republican side lol

[@TheNumbaOneMiss]

Jesus didn't want to die for anyone. He begged god (himself) to take this cup from him. Even on the cross he asked god " why hast thou forsaken me?" Seems he was unaware of his assignment.

[@arndnaj]

God, why am I forsaking myself?

[@arndnaj]

I think this is the equivalent of why are you hitting yourself?

[@brucebaker810]

Jehovah required that JCs adrenochrome be spiced with fear/pain.

[@jackthebassman1]

I have to say whoever indoctrinated Japheth did a most effective job.

[@jackthebassman1]

@James Henry Smith How convenient.

[@carlpaquin8065]

My guess is that it was also pretty easy.

[@markwoods4439]

They did to good of a job!!

[@curtissea5340]

😅​@@carlpaquin8065

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

When your only argument is making hell threats...... sigh. Best commercial to not believe.

[@trapjaw6818]

And you don't even know the rules for hell.......because they can change.

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

@@trapjaw6818 prove hell first. Any claims until then are simply fiction

[@trapjaw6818]

@@CyberBeep_kenshi Indeed, they would have to prove sky grandpa has the torture cage.

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

@@trapjaw6818 lol ye. The weirdest thing is that we have real life examples of an abusive father who quite literally terrorises his family and locks them up in cellars to do all kind of horrible. But these people still defend the idea 'daddy' loves them.... it's like Stockholm syndrome for a billion people. With amaginairy hostage taker. Makes no sense...

[@OswaldBatesIIIEsq]

@@trapjaw6818 "Sky grandpa"? Good one.

[@cosmonaut9540]

I can listen to jmike and Katy roast fools all day long....

[@thedave1771]

Can and do!

[@captainawesome2121]

I love the part where you ask how he knows he isn't being deceived and he paused for about 30 seconds trying to figure out an answer

[@ladyfreedomrocks]

When I stopped believing, I actually started to feel like a better person. Being christian I felt like I was a bad person that had to do all kinds of charity and give to charity. I had to do this and that. I dared not treat myself to anything because I could use that time to work and do good things for god. All because I thought I would be sent to hell if I didn't. My belief was cracking as I got older. I believe I was unconsciously hanging on for my parents. I think that because after they died, I was able to let go. I now do things for others because it's just right. And I do it only if I have time and money. I also have learned how much self care is important and is in no way wrong.

[@ladyfreedomrocks]

@James Henry Smith there has yet to be any. A big fat zero. Everytime somebody says they have proof, it is found to be false . So please take your snake oil someplace else.

[@shanewilson7994]

Same, I'm a hell of a lot better person than I ever was as a Christian. I'm no longer homophobic, sexist, or transphobic.

[@jowah]

@@shanewilson7994 Well said, and same for me. Without religion now for probably a decade or so, I've stopped judging others, I've let go of my tendency to exaggerate, I communicate clearly, I don't indulge stereotypes, and I'm filled with more love for everyone regardless of their particular situation. Be that skin color, sexual orientation, gender, or even religion, although hearing religious mumbo jumbo still gets on my nerves. I'm embarrassed of the things I did and said to others when I was younger, but glad I've made it to where I am.

[@Authenticallyathena]

Same situation for me. I help when I can but no longer feel guilty when I can't and see my own goodness without the idea I need to prove anything to anyone. I think religion needs you broken because you cannot control what is whole.

[@Truth-Be-Told-USA]

Agree with you. I clung to belief in the book until both my parents died and then I woke up and started looking at the real world. That's when I released myself from religion

[@arifsaleem5467]

Hell is not punishment, hell is revenge.

[@2l84me8]

We have absolutely no reason to think this god even exists, let alone believe in the subjective morality of this unproven god. He’s basically an imaginary mob boss. Bottom line: Might doesn’t equal right.

[@brucebaker810]

And might that only might be... the assertion that coercion... is right is more shite.

[@advorak8529]

It’s a protection racket … with the thugs to smash up shops being imaginary. The salesmen are unfortunately real, pay here for your (made-up by us) sins, or else bad things happen after you are dead and cannot confirm or deny they did happen to you.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

A tribe in Africa has made an idol to the god of smallpox. You worship this God in the hopes that the scourge spares you. This is analogous to what I would feel if the Old Testament God actually existed. Another plague to be managed as best we could.

[@advorak8529]

@James Henry Smith _God is real_ Please provide proof for that assertion. _but the evidence of God that's easy to find on Earth are the most horrifying parts_ If that is evidence for a god, then it’s a god who loves watching people suffer, be tortured, starved, have no clean water and no toilets, violence … and watch how some good people almost make a difference before being cut down, becoming idols of failing short of success. (Mother Theresa was not a believer in pain meds and did what she did because her religion required it in her eyes. Prayer came first. She is the type of person who would mass-murder people if she thought her religion required it of her, like blowing yourself up in a concert …) _just as the Bible said it's better to believe and not seen than to have believed after seeing!_ In other words: *do not dare* to search for reality and truth, it’ll just be bad for you: You will have to believe what you know is false! Or, of course, let go of your faith. And be lovingly be kicked out of your community or even lovingly killed by your neighbours who hate themselves[2] and let their self-hate out on you. [2] suppressing your sex drive - to the point that even thinking of sex is a mind crime - means all but asexuals will be sinning all the time, being “weak”, “failing” god, being a filthy nasty evil sinner, guilty of terrible thought crimes … No surprise becoming less than sane, neurotic, self-hating (but do not dare to kill your self!) … and needing to praise the god that wants you to suffer so much - you must turn your anger and fear and hate against yourself. And against anyone who is not as restricted and self-limiting as you all are.

[@izzabelladogalini]

I've always thought this... many Christian's seem to think they have a monopoly on morality when the evidence suggests that atheists are far more moral ..... Christian's pretending to be moral to get into heaven or avoid hell... no carrot or stick for atheists other than feeling you've done the right thing and treating others as you would like to be treated.

[@canivorousvalgaris3453]

Japheth is from Singapore, although he alone is not the representative for Singaporeans, his tendency to adhered to authority is guessable.

[@DriverGuy23]

This caller is super special. He has a direct line to a deity that tells him exactly what to do and what has been updated in the Bible. The Pope needs to hire this guy.

[@JoshuaDuncanOfficial]

You two are as fantastic a dream team, as dynamic a duo as Kenneth & Johnny. I get really stoked when I see it's either of you hosting any ACA show, but both together is a real treat. I love JMike's cold yet cordial logic and Katy's warm wisdom and wit. So quick to invent the perfect illustrative analogy. Some real flights of fancy on this call, lol. I love it. I'm with you, Katy. If there turns out to be a heaven, after all, let's infiltrate and lead the rebel uprising. I agree that Japheth, though certainly lacking justificitory (to use my favorite Jaymikean term {I too, am fascinated by linguistic matters}) backing, seemed honest, patient, attentive, and susceptible to reason. Definitely a well-worthwhile and productive call. Excellent stuff.

[@tempestive1]

Thanks for putting that into words ^^

[@MinaOmega]

Agree. They are both good at this. Katy sunk her teeth in and stuck with it while I thought jmike kind of cut in to clear up and redirect when things went off track, and he did, wonderfully. Now... If only jmike was as easy on the eyes as Katy is. Step up jmike! Trim your mustache and put on some blush. 😆 (Just turning that 'people like to comment on women's looks rather than what they say' thing on its head...)

[@CDJohncock]

Agree with all of this, down to the linguistic matters; I am obsessed with language and words. (Also, I am glad to know so many other viewers agree that Johnny and Kenneth are such a perfect pairing, this is my first time having my opinion on that affirmed.) Anyway, much love, and thank you for this dope comment!

[@norbertjendruschj9121]

My favorite example for the "objectivity" of Biblical ethics is the story of Moses returning from Mt Sinai, carrying the 10 commandments, among them "You shall not murder". And then he slays 4000 men, women and children, who have worshipped the Golden Calf.

[@Goldenhawk583]

killing nonbelievers and wrongbelivers is also a biblical command, so I guess " murder" only happens if you are a christian and kill another christian?

[@SkepticallyQueer]

I was convinced Japheth was saying "God is a Celestial Dickhead," but it turned out he was saying "Celestial Dictator." Six of one...

[@natus6244]

Katy & Mike always make a great show.

[@natus6244]

@James Henry Smith believing in things in the absence of sufficient evidence is the cause of you’re ignorance. Every time you ignore the fact that you’re self imposed ignorance leads the way. Belief in the god of divine hiddenness is a perfect example……. Yet you telling people to believe in things that they can only imagine….. This is why Americans can’t be a collective from the division caused imaginary enemies…….

[@Thrillin_Chillin_Drillin]

MATT: Yes or No. Would you worship a god that you know is evil to save your own ass? GUY: Yes. MATT: Done!

[@NirielWinx]

It's super interesting to see the point of view of a Christian who isn't from Europe or the US. Few here would dare say that God is a horrible dictator who created us so we are scared of him.

[@symbiotesam3562]

I believe it’s this kind of logic that keeps so many chained to Christianity. they want evidence of god, but they can’t risk leaving the religion and risk eternal damnation. But if god is going to damn people to hell for not believing in him than why doesn’t he reveal himself and make it clear he os the one and only god. I would imagine if god is all powerful as he is made out to be that it wouldn’t be a challenge for him.

[@OswaldBatesIIIEsq]

One would think so. However, it'll somehow manage to get chalked up to "god's plan".

[@unkaumanguy1439]

Why the hell would an extremely powerful god care if we worshiped, or even believed in his exsistance. We would be utterly insignificant to a being of this description. It's ridiculous.

[@advorak8529]

@@unkaumanguy1439 the key words are _an extremely powerful god_ This god clearly is an emotionally insecure toddler who needs mom and pops (that’s us, folks) to spoil and tell him he cannot do wrong so he can become a totally selfish and spoiled brat trampling over everyone else without consequence. At the same time he terrorises his parents, sends them to hell or drowns them all on a temper tantrum when reality is unimpressed by his demands to be X and Y and Z.

[@skepticusmaximus184]

​@@OswaldBatesIIIEsq The thing is, that you'll be told the rationale that such an obvious revelation by God would somehow spoil faith, an God wants you to believe on faith. Never mind that when faith is rightly criticised, it's then equivocated with rational knowledge acquisition of objective facts and logical reasoning. 🙄

[@oldmanaz.6811]

It's called illogical not "his kind." Logic works how it works and a belief in an unfalsifible claim is illogical.

[@jonsmith7659]

At least this guy is honest. He follows the rules cause he’s afraid of death. I wish more theists would be honest with themselves and admit that. You can’t escape death and believing in magic won’t save you from your life ending.

[@serenaislinn4912]

The conversation about deception reminded me of a conversation with an evangelical Christian I knew in college. Me : If the devil appeared how would he look? Them : As a brilliant white light that told you lies you'd believe to be true. Me : And how would God appear? Them : As a brilliant light of white that told you truth you would know to be true. Me : You just described the same thing. Them :. No God tells the truth and the devil tells lies. Me : But you said you'd believe that both are telling the truth regardless... It got really circular at this point

[@serenaislinn4912]

@James Henry Smith I really wish instead of alluding to evidence, y'all would just once actually provide it. And no the bible does not constitute evidence, sorry. If that's upsetting sorry, but then you'll also have to convert to Hinduism, Islam, Mormonism, etc... for all religious texts claim truth. Your final point of believing without seeing is nonsense, unless you contend that believing everything you hear or read is a good thing. Which leads one to convert to all the world's religions, belief in every cryptid, conspiracy theory, etc. It creates a person of nonsense for they've abandoned all critical thought, and force contradictory belief systems upon themselves. Your proposition is the nightmare.

[@StephenGangi]

"Let me into your heart, so I can save you" ... "Save me from what?" ... "from ME!!"

[@kidslovesatan34]

This guy was just preaching out of his indoctrination. I'm not sure why you gave them so much credit. He never answered a single question but I thought the call was hilarious. The hosts gently mocking him was a treat.

[@japheth7000]

What question I did not answer?

[@kidslovesatan34]

​@@japheth7000 What evidence do you have? Why should anyone believe you?

[@kidslovesatan34]

@@japheth7000 you are a young Earth creationist, I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously after knowing that.

[@kha30s22]

@@japheth7000 watch the video again it's very obvious.

[@bluematter3962]

Believe or else. Period.

[@robtbo]

How the F is the Bible inerrant when he thinks that the unchanging God of the Bible, possessed of perfect judgement… can change His mind? I guess Japheth is the one who has control over what Japheth’s God can change His mind about. More evidence that man creates God… and NOT the other way around.

[@e.m.b2834]

Some Vietnam vets suffered worst torture then Jesus is said to have suffered

[@DJ-73]

There are many people who have suffered far worse torture than Jesus did. I have heard and read that Jesus suffered the worse torture that anyone could or have received.

[@e.m.b2834]

@@DJ-73 exactly ... the Jesus torture story isn’t that remarkable

[@markevans8206]

“Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins,” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

[@DJ-73]

@@markevans8206 Jesus just got some piercings and a head band.

[@briancarton1804]

​@@DJ-73I would take the deal JC got in exchange for an end to war and poverty. Just three days of shit , then alive again back sipping wine with his pals on Sunday. Then straight off to Heaven. Easy peasy. I would take on that task in the blink of an eye.

[@johnlewis3891]

They should have corrected him when he stated that slavery wasn't condoned in the NT.

[@jimdietrick1681]

I've heard hundreds of arguments from theists, never a good one.

[@brucebaker810]

We can't assume all arguments are bad, though. There might be a good one in Australia. (ref: black swan fallacy; found black swans in Australia)

[@twcnz3570]

Nah. Ken Ham's from Australia.

[@phrozenwun]

All of the extant God given communication is passed through humans first - *ALWAYS via a human!* Where is the power of god other than in the minds of humans?

[@bradweir6993]

Absolutely NOWHERE !

[@phrozenwun]

@James Henry Smith My wife is a world renowned billionaire super model but her personality is terrifying so you should just believe me instead of meeting her... What kind of moron accepts this specious tripe?

[@bradweir6993]

@James Henry Smith The Bible has really refined stupidity has it not ?

[@ianchisholm5756]

'The purpose of mankind is to fear God.' A god who creates living things to be afraid before he tortures them forever? Japhet's god is the definition of ultimate evil.

[@DarkRanger1975]

I know of some people that believe that it is impossible for people to be good in any form without the fear of divine retribution.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

A tribe in Africa has made an idol to the god of smallpox. You worship this God in the hopes that the scourge spares you. This is analogous to what I would feel if the Old Testament God actually existed. Another plague to be managed as best we could.

[@davegaskell7680]

I love JMike and Katy's faces from 21:20 onwards for the 30 seconds where they're clearly enjoying the idea of intercepting a change of God's mind in heaven.

[@lnsflare1]

Godzilla's manifestation in my life is quite powerful.

[@brucebaker810]

Verily, he will stomp the tokyo of doubt.

[@Currin4]

Legit question for anyone who may know. You ever notice when someone has no defense they just talk faster and faster?

[@whispersmith]

That's called the Gish gallop. Ben Shapiro does this shit all the time

[@Arbadee.PayZaLee]

Please prove that a god said or did anything!

[@Arbadee.PayZaLee]

@James Henry Smith Yes it is easy and better to be duped by a bunch of goat herders who thought the moon was actually a real light and the stars could literally fall to earth. Disregard all science for some crusty old ridiculous book written thousands of years ago and all passed down by way of the Telephone Game. Live your delusions but leave me out of it. I have too much common sense to think such a invisible creature actually exists!

[@neilfreeman5824]

Japheth and his like are potential fodder for any Christian despot.

[@moorejim13]

I find it so weird when people say “atheist worldview” like buddy Atheism is like a poster on the wall, it tells you one thing about me, but your looking it like it’s supposed to be a window. It’s not! There’s nothing deeper than the one thing you see on the poster

[@kurtjohnson3917]

One inherent problem of theism is the assumption that morals/ethics, etc; are dependent upon a non-human creator who specifically proscribes those boundaries. They can't imagine how a human might believe and act in a moral and ethical way without that direction; or that those very guidelines were in fact, created by humans, and later attributed to various deities for the purpose of "authority". The problem for non-theists is that they often don't understand that these differences between us are in some ways neurological, and that for many of these theological "thinkers", our appeal to logic and principles of argument are inaccessible to them. So when these theists argue that there's no morality without God-Law; they're actually describing their own mental process. They might genuinely be comparatively unable to feel or comprehend the kind of inherent compassion and empathy that might guide a non-theist. Cuz their brains just don't work that way. There is considerable science around this.

[@japheth7000]

I become a Christian at age 21. I am 35 now. Before age 21, I have understood that morality is subjective and understood that morality is created by the consensus of each particular society. I understood compassion and empathy as a non-theist.

[@alberich3099]

15:24 When I talked to a muslim I lived with during uni-times, he told me the exact same thing god updated from judaism to chritinanity useing Jesus. his argument was - jews got a realy strict ruleset because god saw that was necessary for humans as they are too "wild" - and then once they created civilisations which were more well civil he sent Jesus giving out less strict rules but with the threat of hell. Saying hey you humans are now able to have more freedoms but with more resonsibility comes a harsher threat of punishment. Then after he saw that humans are not able to abide to his rules, he sent mohamad as his new messenger to update the laws again to become more strict much more strict AND include hell as he saw freedom isn't working out for humans, and hell was already there. Needless to say I don'T follow that argumentation but it is essentially the same as Japheth makes but he stops at christianity. How does he not believe the step further with an updated version of rules as he ackknowlages that christians are an "evolution" of jews - by his argumentation as jesus beeing the new covenant for the abrehamic god, he surely understands that mohamad acknowlages all of the old testament and the teachings of jesus but adds on to it. Edit: oh just as aI wrote this Katy used that ... I'm sorry I'll leave it up nontheless all hail the engagement of the algorithm

[@tedmoy]

JMike is like a sexier Jesus

[@Finckelstein]

And a helluva lot more "existier".

[@joelonsdale]

You have NO IDEA how sexy Jesus actually was.

[@whispersmith]

​@@joelonsdale Could God make a Jesus so sexy that he himself could not resist him.. self..?

[@billjohnson9472]

it is funny that if you believe in god - it is never just that being - it implies a huge cast of supernatural characters that outnumber even the old Roman gods. Satan, angels, cherubims, all manner of things.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

I like that JMike had Japheth nailed down into a corner for a sec there but then you guys let him go with a bit too much rambling. I realise it was difficult because Japheth was all over the place.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@James Henry Smith Nope. Check out Pascals Wager. Believing an old book of myth and fairytales is moronic.

[@alittleofeverything4190]

So everyone should live every moment of their life in fear and this is a good thing. Oh, and you have to love the one you fear.

[@LoveProWrestling]

"gods manifestation in my life is quite powerful, more than a lot of christians so I will know (god from the devil)." Amazing.

[@danielsnyder2288]

I love the fact that this guy's name is thr same as the man in the Bible that committed child sacrifice to Yaweh, who accepted it! Immoral monster

[@japheth7000]

Jephthah and Japheth are 2 different names in the Bible.

[@danielsnyder2288]

@@japheth7000 so, "similar" not the same. Point is the same

[@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT]

In Genesis mythology, Japheth was one of Noah's sons, and was notable only for forming a post diluvian colony. Japheth who called into the show is just a weirdo pitching his personal spin on divine command theory. The name does not determine the person.

[@japheth7000]

@@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT My position is perfectly consistent with the Bible.

[@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT]

@@japheth7000 It's trivially easy to mine the bible for supporting quotes, even on opposite sides of an issue. Consistency is not the only measure of truth. There is plenty of fiction of more internally coherent writing than the bible.

[@Diablodestroyer]

Surprised to hear someone from Singapore coming in Seems like this show is getting good reach

[@lizmol-san]

If Abrahamic god is real, I will happily join Lilith and Satan, and fight against the tyrannical villain who played with so many living beings for his fun. ☝🏽

[@nalumolina8860]

"If the name japeth was now immoral...." "I WOULD CHANGE MY NAME!" Like bro didn't even want to think it through

[@wordnoise4741]

So wait. Do all the people who went to hell, for a rule that’s now changed, get released and let into heaven???

[@andyo393]

There is a dichotomy created in how is good determined objectively or subjectively. If the former God can't change the rules if the latter God can but can't be considered good.

[@leonardo.hm96]

-I look at the evidence. I happen to be a young earth creationist. I'm dead 😂😂😂

[@douglasdavis8395]

"But, look at the TREES!"

[@beingpath]

There are other people on my block who could easily kick my ass and with whom I disagree. It’s more pathetic to change my mind out of fear than to get my ass kicked. The bully is in no way vindicated.

[@robertjimenez5984]

God is the mafia boss, so don’t rebel against him because he will brake your legs or kill you. But by obeying the mafia buss, aren’t you supporting the mafia system of abusing to be successful?

[@heiyuall]

“That mountain is talker than us. Let’s worship it.”

[@snooganslestat2030]

I really like that he said his communication with god is more powerful than a lot of other xtians. 😂

[@jarodcarnarvon5198]

Part of the Christian sales pitch is, "God wants to be your best buddy, and cares about you more than any other human ever could.". And then they turn around and threaten you with Hell if you don't do what He wants & worship Him. If God is threatening and scaring people as well as forcing people to worship Him, it is NOT a healthy relationship nor is He your best friend. He is strictly your Lord and Judge!!!

[@alecmartinar6372]

Revolution in heaven !!!

[@jaxonmn33]

Does anyone else find it incredibly funny that alot of athiests (including myself) look like jebus? 🤣

[@danhemming6624]

God and Reality don't mix. If God is the same as Government? What if the Government make 1 law and Religion makes the opposite law, which one do you follow? How do you then justify your decision/position? If God punishes you for doing x, then he changes his mind. Do you get unpunished? If so How?

[@AntitheistHuman]

And again, believers have "faith" in god literally because they must be afraid of him

[@rikukoskela2791]

Japheths god is a arbitrary sort of creature, probably a little bit like Japheth. I wonder why that is?

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Question: If god can change the laws, does that mean that the bible will suddenly change to reflect god's mind?

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@James Henry Smith Stop *LYING!* You don't have any evidence!

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@James Henry Smith *LIAR!* You have zero good evidence for this holy trinity that exists only in your imagination.

[@grapeman63]

If God is omniscient - he knows everything, all that has ever been and all that is still to come. Further, if God is omnicompetent - he is able to judge unlimited amounts of information and select the right course to steer, i.e. he is infallible. Then how can he ever change his mind or morals on anything? It's not as if some new unexpected piece of information is going to occur, he already knows everything right at the start!

[@richboy455]

"Celestial Dictator" sounds like a sick band.

[@Jeremy0509]

God is scarey and Satan is scarey? Sounds like a no win scenario. I'm daily confused by the people who have genuine fear of a god and a devil.

[@CeezGeez]

caller sounds like the type that would commit atrocities in the name of religion and god

[@chucksav4441]

Theist think they got a slam dunk idea that will support their god claim. But the problem is they simply don't think it through to weed out the flaws that may be found in their argument. But it is entertaining hearing them.😊

[@gadfly149]

He says he only follows the highest power, not a government power. But the highest power says render unto Caesar. So…?

[@juanjoseescanellas3798]

I'm as special as paranoid I am.

[@carlpaquin8065]

"Obey my comandments and fear me or I'll send you in Hell". This is supposed to be a moral standing point?

[@StephenGangi]

That guy bothers me. If the only things keeping him from doing evil things, are a "cosmic bogeyman" and Hell, then I want nothing to do with him.

[@Eric_01]

Except, that isn't even really why he doesn't do certain things. He's merely attributing his natural behavior to something that had no nothing to do with it. It's like thanking god for a job opportunity but you did all of the schooling and training on your own. People are so eager to give their credits away for the sake of posturing.

[@jameswalker3416]

Were did God come from? The only thing ive got from religious people is there are meny things in heaven we do not understand. Thats the biggest cop out. You do not need a a god to admit we we don't know everything.

[@nagranoth_]

Well, at least he realised that christianity doesn't provide objective morality...

[@thedave1771]

What I’m getting is that the reason to follow god and not the government is that both will torture you, but the government isn’t as good at it?

[@terryfall8915]

With God, what is terrible is that one never knows whether it's not just a trick of the devil. -- Jean Anouilh, the Archbishop, in The Lark

[@elmaestro1549]

Lol jmike is like wtf is going on

[@antoniom4099]

Katy is impressive.

[@Eric_01]

She's always so calm and cool. She really loves these conversations.

[@Sammedi1]

Give the guy a second Katy, his tiny brain can’t process all this logic in one sitting.

[@porkyboy4226]

When someone really doesn't understand what they believe!!!

[@bodricpriest8816]

Convincing him to think is like trying to nail pudding to a wall...

[@erniemathews5085]

It's great when they get to the " ah, er, well...

[@135ipocketrocket2]

Brilliant team! Love this duo. Poor Japheth, the brainwashing is strong for that one.

[@135ipocketrocket2]

@James Henry Smith Unicorns as well!

[@DeanMartinson-ci3lk]

jmike looks like the zig zag man

[@cmack17]

Reading a book cover to cover means little to me. Of greater importance is CORRECTLY UNDERSTANDING AND COMPREHENDING what is being read. Simply recognizing the phonetic structure of words is only the baseline of reading.

[@themanwithnoname1839]

What this guy doesent know is, god has said before men of the military must obey their orders, if your government deploys you and orders you to kill for them you MUST do so even if you think its wrong..... My own bible teacher taught me this once upon a time, she said "soldiers cannot be held to account if theyre under orders" to which now i realize that absolves men like the gestapo...... Of any wrong doing what so ever..... Even though they killed children.....

[@bazpearce9993]

Might is right theory. "I can beat the crap out of you if you don't agree with me. So you'd better be good, or else!"

[@thomasrendleman5387]

Mighty Morphin Power Rangers were originally Matthew Mark Luke and John.😂 There is the evidence for god 😊

[@Mouth-of-Spaghetti]

5:59 Japheth is the name of a moral monster in the bible

[@pash_4904]

This guy is surprisingly...honest? Only a few minutes in but he's already conceded that god is a subjective authoritarian ruler that commands us and tortures us for his pleasure. Interesting how he sees this...and its still on board.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

He raises a good point. A lot of people are terrible, terrible people - and the idea of an omniscient god is the only thing that stops them sucking even worse.

[@azophi]

To defend Japheth (“devil’s advocate”) : I’d say the reason why we don’t follow everything the government says is that there’s inherently a limited punishment they can do- you will die no matter what the government does to you, so you have to weigh your options. Eternal conscious torment, on the other hand, is infinite. As for how you know if you’re being deceived…. Matthew 7: “by their fruits you will recognize them” (of course that really pretty much gets rid of divine command theory but.. 😅)

[@dragowolfraven3806]

Assuming for the sake of argument that God exists he/she sounds like a yandere/notice me senpai anime girl.🤔😂

[@Paranitis]

God can't change His mind, because he knows all things at all times. He would know what we do and how He would react. In fact, punishing us for what He literally knew we would do, isn't punishment, but torture because He is a psychopath.

[@jayanderson66]

Jesus Christ did not die for my sins. I am an atheist who actually has to live with his acts in this world. The caller could be committed but I expect that under all this he is is ok but like most believers he presposes his version of god and then spends time looking for confirmation.

[@naomielewis]

He said it like he was letting you in on some unfortunate news lol

[@airpower7692]

This turned ridiculous 😂😂