Talking insomnia #84: How Kristen's 15 years of struggle ended.

[@Dajlec]

Your therapist obviously had NO IDEA how to help someone with insomnia. The problem with insomnia is not the lack of sleep itself, but the relation you have with your thoughts about "not sleeping" and how it is going to ruin your life.

[@drorjs]

So many points of resonance. The first night that triggered it all, the fear of ssri meds, using clonex sometimes, the general struggle..

[@ianquigley5070]

I love Kristens comment about each sleepless night is just a chance for more exposure therapy, lovely positive reframing. I feel this is where im currently at in my journey

[@amandaw53]

This story resonates with me so much. The sleep obsession and pressure to sleep is consuming. I’ve had insomnia for many years now - including during pregnancy. I’ve been on and off of the same benzo for years. I’m currently going through a 3 month bout of insomnia which has been consuming me day and night. Tried meds, CBT, etc. Stumbled upon coach Daniel while listening to the Anxious Truth podcast (I also have crippling anxiety and agoraphobia). Been listening to stories on this channel all day. This story is the one the hits home the most. It really comes down to the anxiety and obsession on what could go wrong that it becomes a phobia. Thank you for sharing, and I hope to be able to share my success story one day.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you found this Amanda and that you found your way here from Drew and his wonderful podcast. Kristen checks comments every now and then, it will make her so glad that her story resonated. Hang in there, and know that for anyone willing to take this path, things get easier. And if you ever want to be a guest, just let us know 😊

[@natashatwine7818]

This is one of the best interviews. Daniel does a fantastic job at listening to his guest.

[@KaptainNarwhal]

Thank you! Hearing that a part of the key to escaping insomnia is just exposing ourselves to the wakefulness in a positive way has given me so much joy and hope already.

[@Yung_noir]

I’ve been struggling with insomnia for 5 years and some days I really felt like I was dying because why else would an otherwise healthy 30 year old not be able to sleep. Recently I discovered that I’m suffering from sleep anxiety, not inability to sleep and that was mind-blowing. My mind is blown once again learning through this video that I can abandon my obsessive sleep hygiene routine for watching tv in my bed/doing other activities that actually bring me joy/relaxation. After all, I want to associate sleeplessness with positive things! Maybe it will help me fear it less. Thank you so much to you both. I’m going to try this before spending over a thousand dollars on a CBTI program

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you found your way here and, hope our teachings will help much. Be in touch, rooting for you

[@fiztesha]

Oh, this hit the spot really well for me! 9 years of insomnia and counting😅 2 years listening and practicing the principals that Daniel and his wonderful coaches teach and still not being on the other side yet! Being a perfectionist and expecting a lot from ourselves is also slowing down the progress! My sleep is weak and short - like cat naps, but I am glad to no linger have the horrendous anxiety while in bed🎉 loved this episode!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad, this is definitely a favorite episode 🙂 And you know, it’s so so nice the intense anxiety isn’t there and no doubt the same way it has faded, so will the residual struggle… rooting for you

[@yonahokoth]

This is so helpful. I love the fact that she's mentioned a number of helpful episodes to fall back to. I am now more energized to abandon the meds and let sleep normalize on it's own. I'm so grateful.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So so nice to read this Yonah, you’ll see nice things come to you thanks to the heart work you’re willing to do 😊

[@xoxowenxox]

Episodes 341 & 329: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpC8eJ5mqKmHbaMsi=K5H2Rgn0UEDObSO0 kzbin.info/www/bejne/kF6smXZueKp-oZYsi=-GJmC347uQBm-Kk-

[@michaelbernard1041]

How did you turn out?

[@yonahokoth]

@@michaelbernard1041 sleep normalized, after a while I relapsed and went back to insomnia. I applied the same principles given here and sleep again normalized. Now it's all good. Should it ever relapse, I know exactly how to go about it. Thanks to guidance here.

[@stephaniesteed7653]

@@yonahokothare you still doing well? I am tapering a sleep med and would like to know how this worked out for you.

[@Dobes92_]

This is my favorite video on the channel! Kristen described everything so well, truly an amazing story. I've been watching videos and learning for about a month now. I've struggled with sleep since I was a kid (now in my 30s). Stay strong, everyone!🫡

[@AuroraCarlisle]

Oh my god her symptoms are so much like me. I’ve always had test or appointment anxiety as well and never sleep beforehand. As I’ve gotten older that extended to work, which is how I found your channel. My insomnia is also due to hyperarousal anxiety and I also get VERY sticky ear worms - they will last DAYS. CBT-I also plateaued for me. The more I dug into my “sleep hygiene,” the worse it became. Honestly finding your channel provided me so much comfort that nothing was wrong with me that I was able to sleep two days last week without any meds. I’m so grateful for your content and stories like this.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Nalia, I’m so very glad you found this and it resonated 😊 and thanks so much for the support and for sharing 🙏

[@4nrobia]

My first time watching your videos my sleep changed dramatically I slept the whole night the first night I watched your videos you saved my life thank you so much for sharing your my angel

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Amazing 😊!

[@Becky-x5p]

Daniel, please keep up the fantastic work here! I have had insomnia for 15 years, I have never heard anyone explain what was truly happening in my brain the way you do. You book NATTO is fantastic, you truly understand, and your insight is invaluable. This was one of the first videos I watched and since the first day of watching these my sleep has drastically improved. I can’t express enough how thankful I am for your content, I tell everyone I know that struggles with sleep about you. THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart! ❤

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Wow, Rebecca, so glad to read this 😊!! So happy you found our little ecosystem, the book, this interview and of course most of all, how the struggle has truly started to fade 🙂! Anytime, and do let me know if you’d ever want to share your story. As you know, they bring so much hope and inspiration. No pressure of course, only if you feel like it. Thanks so much for sharing 🙏 made my day!!

[@johnthompson354]

Powerful stuff thanks

[@AdeleBowness]

I am in the UK and am so glad I found your videos. Kristen is almost word for word describing my experience apart from the fact that I am 56 and don't have small children. I am at the stage where I am trying to befriend the wakefulness but am struggling with this. I am ditching all my sleep hygiene as from today as I feel this is adding to the problem. My brain is associating all the sleep hygiene with the expectation of no sleep!

[@Jewlz4ever]

How are you doing now?

[@hongchen27]

Daniel is the best. I just wonder how can he understand insomnia so much when himself never had insomnia. I think the emotions of anxiety and fear are so subtle for someone who never experiences them to catch.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Hong! Thanks for being in touch. You know, I ponder this sometimes and I think for me, when I started to understand… it lead to this introspection where I saw the same type of control ideas that lead to insomnia in my own life, other aspects than sleep, but still the same. Trying to find ways to control my kids behavior or the growth of this KZbin channel… I think this helped a lot, both when it came to the channel and my own journey!

[@jenniferm6502]

What a beautiful person, inside and out. Her story rings sooo true to me. It makes me cry how much I can relate. Having a medical background can be so much more of a curse than a blessing when you have insomnia. I'm so happy for her and how far she's come.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

I just took a screenshot of this comment and sent it to Kristen, it will make her so happy to see this 🙂

[@kristaquin]

❤️

[@mizzree35]

This was inspiring. This is what I needed. I’m in the puddle now lol and I’m a bit loopy but her story was everything I went through as a mom. I feel less alone now.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad to read this Sherri, knowing you’re not alone helps so much!

[@aya123444]

Oh my God I just realized the control over food and weightloss is so similar to the control/rules of sleep. Damn. Whoa.

[@lynettalongstreet3278]

What a great video! Thanks Kristen for sharing. My struggle began in January of 2020 after discontinuation of medication and never having sleep problems my entire life. What a roller coaster ride. I used to look forward to going to bed at night. After a few nights of not sleeping I started dreading going to bed and then in time fearing it. I’m not where I want to be but I’m working on it. My husband watches these podcast with me as he has walked through this journey with me. He has kinda became my coach as he has learned from this channel. When I go to bed and after I haven’t fallen asleep, I will start saying I’m not going to be able to sleep, to which he says, it doesn’t matter that just means your going to have a great day. He has learned and accepted much quicker than I have. I had some resistance to that at first but have learned over time that he is right. Please keep these videos coming as they are a light shining in the darkness.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Lynetta! So glad you and your husband are finding value here 😊 and absolutely, it’s actually getting easier to find guests so I’m sure we will have lots of stories of hope this year and beyond. And you know, you’ll arrive where you want to be thanks to your heart work and the wonderful support you have.

[@enough425]

Why did he say you will have a great day if you can’t sleep?

[@christinap.8716]

The only way I was able to overcome insomnia was to always work only on the afternoon/evening shift. Of course that relegated me to only manufacturing and warehouse work (as I'm too squeamish for medical work), but at least it has kept me (even now at 62 years old) feeling just as physically and mentally energetic as I did at 20.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hey Christina, sorry of course there was a sleep struggle.. but so glad you found a way and that you’re feeling young 😊!

[@betadance222]

WOW. Laughing in that “oh, yeah, I know that feeling” way as I listen to her describe her struggles. So thankful to have found these videos. CBT-I made me worse and I have been sure it’s because something must be medically wrong with me. These stories let me know I’m not alone and it’s my brain’s perfectly normal response to the fear that is causing all my issues. So excited to work through more 🙏🏻

[@sherrylin115]

I absolutely love hearing her story. I can so relate to everything she described. Thank you, Kristin, for sharing your heartfelt story, your wit, and humor.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Thank you for your heartfelt comment! We want to assure you that your comments are seen and deeply appreciated. We're grateful that the message resonated with you and that it's contributing to a meaningful conversation. Your support means a lot, and we're glad it made sense to you. 💙

[@SamanthaAvedesian]

I am binging the mom insomnia stories. Yes relating so much and feeling hopeful. I just signed up for the bedtyme app and feel hopeful that my body knows how to sleep and befriending wakefulness. I loved that she mentioned like it’s totally okay to watch tv in bed if your awake! I needed to hear that because I’m not a get up and read type of gal. I’m loving her story so much and we have a tonnnnn in common!

[@alexismartin1577]

Hands down, this discussion has been the most helpful thing I've found, after three years of dealing with extended bouts of insomnia. I listened to this at 3.30 the other morning after having my fourth early hours meltdown in a row. Last night I completely changed tack, and re-embraced my old friend, the Sleep with Me podcast, and took the pressure off myself by staying calmly in bed rather than getting up. I got a few hours and feel fresh as a daisy today 😆The couch, for me, has indeed become yet another trigger. I wanted to cheer when you two talked about how some of the standard CBT-I strategies arent that beneficial for some people. I can even relate to the experience of having earworms, or as I put it, Jukebox brain. I can't thank you both enough ☺

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Incredibly nice to read this Alexis 🤗!! Thanks so much for sharing and being here

[@alexismartin1577]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 You're a lifesaver. I'm a very grateful Tasmanian viewer 😃

[@drorjs]

Cbt-i is great but also has to be carefuly tailored to each person.

[@kmiriabell]

This story resonated a lot with me. My first pregnancy was my insomnia trigger. Eventually I was prescribed the same benzo and it helped but it was devastating during my second pregnancy. I was so guilty. I’m finally over all this thanks to Daniel’s principles.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Really glad to hear Kristen’s story resonated, and what what we teach has been so helpful 😊

[@lillianyoukhana8451]

Did you take the benzo during your pregnancy. My insomnia is so bad for the past 9 months

[@kmiriabell]

I did. .5mg/day Klonopin . My son is 4 now and perfectly healthy. But I felt very guilty about taking it the whole time and that was more terrible than any actual effects. But I finally got off of klonopin and in control of the insomnia. I had to go through OCD ICBT therapy (I basically developed OCD only about sleep) and combined it with Daniel’s book Set It and Forget it/ BedTyme app to get over my 8 year struggle with insomnia.

[@gabrialjackson5878]

I appreciate the honesty. Here is a medical professional taking another person's medication despite the legality. We will literally do anything in crisis. I have resented "professionals" who have passed on judgment to myself. I always feel they just don't get it. Thank you so much, guys. I'm getting so much help from you

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So so glad you found this Gabrial, and thanks much for the support 🙏

[@tannertarggart8304]

Are you sleeping better

[@steelmonki]

Kristen thank you for sharing your story , this is immensely helpful 🙏

[@CJC1512]

I am in anesthesia school and this couldn't be more accurate!! Even down to the same "I wanna be sedated!" I have been singing that all the time. The performance anxiety really has been at the root of my sleeping troubles. Thank you so much for posting this!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you found this, so many similarities! I periodically encourage Kirsten to check the comments, she’ll be glad to see this 🙂

[@kzrlgo]

The fact a med student is taking Tylenol PM every 4 hours, but only every 4 hours, because that’s what the pack says to try and sleep is incredibly stupid. The fact she is so eager to start taking her father’s sleeping pills rather than look at real solutions like exercise etc is worrying. Listening to the upbeat banger “I wanna be sedated” while on a quest to try and sleep, is a fascinating insight into how her and your logic works. This is what we call a hot mess. We really REALLY don’t need anymore doctors like this. (Woke up her husband because of the reasons she listed? Holy sh!t this woman is a psycho). Thank you for shamelessly revealing that you are an aspiring anaesthesiologist and can relate to this junky Dr. American medical system is beyond f’ed.

[@taylorn5841]

I watch these videos all the time, and I feel like I relate to this one especially. This channel has literally saved my life, but right now I'm extra stressed and having a bit of a "setback". Anyways, my issues with sleeping started in college especially before exams, and just like her, I also didn't sleep before the MCAT! while I feel like I have tools now that I didn't when my sleeping issue started, it does sometimes worry me that medical school might exacerbate the remaining sleep anxiety that I have. I am applying to medical school right now. Thanks for this video!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hey Taylor, so glad you’re here and found this episode. And you know, insomnia really starts not with one night of little sleep - but with us trying to prevent it happening again… medical school very well impact how we feel, but it’s us trying to prevent it that can create some struggle. When we don’t on the other hand, things get easier and easier 🙂

[@jeaniepochatko6349]

Kristen is so delightful!! In spite of the way I’m feeling, she made me laugh many times! What a delightful sense of humor she has and has made insomnia a bit less miserable! Thank you!!!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

She’s amazing!!!

[@valerie963]

She made me laugh too! Laugh and be amazed at her strength!

[@kristaquin]

♥️

[@scarlettfreedom3629]

I understand the bed trauma, having to try to even sleep on the couch etc. Tired, wired and scared. Fear of mania, as well. Yes, I've battled hard this road. I love this story. So much pertinent information in this story and process. Thanks for sharing Daniel and guest, Kristen 💛💤💛

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Scarlett, I’m so glad it resonated, and thanks much for the support 😊

[@mrfernandog123]

Hey scarlet what helped with those fears?? I'm kinda dealing with the same thing

[@bayapapaya-]

Wow finally someone I can relate to and I finally have hope. It’s been 7 years now for me it’s horrendous. That dreaded adrenaline rush when you know sleep is doomed. So frustrating. I was sleeping on the couch and once my fiancé casually called it my bedroom I knew it was over for me in that moment. Glad to know I’m not alone❤

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you found this Elsa 😊

[@sabzrina1611]

Have to say this had to be one of the best videos. What a lovely lady.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

She’s amazing 😊 so glad you found it!!

[@kristaquin]

❤️

[@jennifersamuels2979]

This made me cry, you have me so much hope. I on one week one of this. Already done good nights still some tough nights. But I see I have to let go of the worry, fear and analyzing! Thank you for your story!!!!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Jennifer, I just took a screenshot of this comment and sent it to Kristen - it will make her so glad. Just like myself 😊

[@pedroribeiro7594]

How are u now?

[@berndstromberg1424]

Wow.....this is so relatable. Started SRT on my own 12 days ago. And more and more i realise that this strict and analytical technique isn't working for me. My sleep got worse in week 2. I need an easier approach that ist more fitting to.my habits and lifestyle. This podcast gave me hope again. Thank you so much.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad this was helpful Bernd 😊

[@ianquigley5070]

So many humorous moments that made me smile, however I love the part where Kristen says, it was so anti stimulus control, what will my therapist say, he is going to explode 😊. Thank you for sharing such a lovely story of your journey through insomnia

[@emiliaaleksandra4738]

I also cried when I listened to this video. This is me!! Except I have now struggled 5 years. I have also tried therapy and every those things and I have used medicins 4,5 years. I have 3 children and I had exactly the same thoughts during pregnancy. Now I sleep always about 5-7 hours because of this medicins (which I take more if I am not falling asleep easily), because I hate so much be awake and be tired. I am going to start working soon and that's very scary thing, but now I ordered Daniel's boon and I will watch these, so I have hope. Meybe one day I notice that I am not struggeling with nights.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

You’ll get there Emilia, check our momsomnia playlist and thanks for sharing 🙂

[@gabrialjackson5878]

I think I just won the lottery stumbling on this channel. I feel like Miss Kristen here is channeling my experience. This is uncanny.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

It’s perhaps what help an more than anything else, finding someone we can relate to… soo glad you’re here 😊!!

[@austintone]

Kristen is lovely and engaging. The only thing I don’t understand is how she made the leap from 15 years of wanting to sleep, trying everything including meds that could pose significant danger, to happily hanging out in bed, without any care whether she would sleep or not. Seriously, that is the question! How to go from dread of getting through the next day on no sleep to a carefree attitude toward sleep? I understand that it would be helpful if you COULD make that leap. For me, it’s like knowing that fairy dust from a distant planet might help my insomnia. I wish I could get some of that magic cure but I just can’t get there from here. How did Kristen make the dramatic shift from desperate for sleep to freedom from caring at all?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Katharine I’m so glad you found this video and I’d say this. In these success stories, months or even years of inner work is compressed into less than an hour. The journey for Kristen I’m sure was not easy at all, and I’m sure she had the exact same questions you have. And you know, just the understanding that when we are willing to be awake the struggle fades, it becomes like a compass that can lead where we want to be

[@dbose8772]

I’m so grateful I came across your channel Daniel, this episode hit me like ton of bricks. Kristen’s story hit in every angle, it’s so relatable in my case. The cocktails, the battle w/ sleep hygiene and finally accepting and letting go. I’m so happy for her, this journey had thought me so much not just w/ sleep but life in general. Thank you!!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So so glad you found us and that this was so relatable 😊 you know I got these stats from KZbin the other day, and this was among the third most watched in 2022, such a powerful story. Be well now and be in touch!

[@LaurenMeikle]

This is so relatable, especially the getting out of bed to color 😂 Thank you Kristen and Daniel, you have really helped me and I hope to share my success story on here soon ❤

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So so glad Lauren 😊! Thanks for letting us know 🙏

[@jinnyklink9040]

This channel is amazing. I have suffered insomnia all my life on and off. The worst period was about a year and a half ago during which I only slept 0 - 3 hours a night for 6 months, with the worst part being four days consecutively of no sleep. It cumulated with me completely breaking down and sobbing as a grown woman on my dads lap begging for him to promise me he will help me end my life if it kept going. Then out of no where it got better. Since then I have had one other 2 month long attack of insomnia, but not as bad, as the 6 month one - after which I went back to normal sleep. About a week ago I took a lot of stimulants and immediately just knew I wouldn’t sleep that night. I just immediately believed after taking the stimulant that my insomnia would be back. THIS WAS BEFORE A SINGLE NIGHT OF BAD SLEEP. I spent the evening panicking and Lo and behold I didn’t sleep. the next night i also didn’t sleep. This has been going on for about a week, with me becoming a total mess so quickly, living each second in intense fear: thinking omg it’s happening again. It’s going to ruin my life. I can’t go through it again. If I do I will die. I will want to end my life. Anyways this lasted until yesterday, when I finally came accross this channel and found out for the first time ever that I’m not completely alone in this, and that I’m not a freak of nature with a brain disease. I spent all yesterday binge watching these and was completely amazed by how their stories were just like mine. I have never heard of that story come from anyone else but me! Anyway, after a day of listening to this I fell fast asleep on the couch in front of the tv. I still woke up a few times with the fear of not sleeping hitting me, but I relaxed again and fell back asleep. I woke up at 5 am after 7 hours and couldn’t sleep anymore. So I got up and made a great breakfast and enjoyed my day. And just kept telling myself, it’s all good! You are tired, but life is good, and you have permission to enjoy the day! It’s weird, I’ve never allowed myself to enjoy the day when tired before. I think that’s a good first step!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Wow this is so amazing you found your way here, so so glad you’re seeing you’re not the only one at all… and the self kindness developing already… wonderful 😊!!

[@me2also]

Thank you! This episode was so informative. Your description of CBT-I results was so validating. I took Dr Jacobs CBT-I course 6 months ago it was so rigid and the feedback was so discouraging that I literally completed it feeling that insomnia would be the cause of my death.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad this resonated 😊

[@gerrym-cat7119]

I literally wanted to hug this lady while watching this podcast. Very insightful…

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

😊

[@kristaquin]

🤗

[@laurenmcdonald7086]

Can I just say that, whatever your fears have told you about how lack of sleep is “aging” you, you look great. When the video started, I figured you were still in med school. I was shocked to hear you’ve already had two kids! Lack of sleep has done nothing to age you!

[@laurenmcdonald7086]

Also, this has been extremely helpful and I’m so happy to ha e found this channel.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you’re here 😊

[@suellalanceley1245]

Thanks for such an interesting and helpful presentation, Daniel & Kristin. It's so reassuring to hear of others' stories that have elements like mine. I've educated myself (and my brain) and am now gradually seeing my sleep improve. It's not dramatic or sudden, but I believe it is improving. It's certainly troubling me less when I don't sleep. Thanks again.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Suella!! So so glad to hear from you 😊 and you know “It’s certainly troubling me less when I don’t sleep” - this to me is really really encouraging. This is how we know the struggle is ending, because the response is fading. Thanks for being here and for being in touch.

[@michelleweil6672]

Hi Suella! Good to hear from you and great to read this too :)

[@suellalanceley1245]

@@michelleweil6672 Thanks!

[@debbievogan7470]

So incredibly thankful for Kristen’s testimony! Brought tears to my eyes.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So so glad you found it 🙂

[@jeffvogan3876]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 I am so, so glad that I found YOU!! My life has been transformed in less than a week- after almost 4 years of insomnia! I have been binge listening to you since last Thursday. I am spreading the word about you!! How does the medical community not understand that it is purely anxiety?? This would have saved me so much grief. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your videos!!! (And I also have purchased 2 of your books- they just came yesterday. I will be passing them along to friends and family- or tell them to buy their own!)

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Oh man this was just so wonderful to read just now 🤗!! So so glad you’re here, thanks for all the support and you know, I believe it’s the word of mouth, just telling people… it will eventually lead to the establishment catching on! Be well now and be in touch 🙂

[@jeffvogan3876]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 I certainly hope so. I've been thinking what I will say to my doctor's office. They have been "treating" me for insomnia and anxiety supposedly from long time chronic Lyme disease (because my cytokine panel has some high markers). Less than a week listening to you and I am cured. :)

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

You know, it they’re open minded it may help to share what really made a difference for you. The unfortunate thing is doctors really get no education at all. And actually the system in many ways is not built for what troubles us humans so much today, struggles that are met with ongoing education. But yes, hope so as well and again: so happy you found the way 😊

[@Dock_Fox]

I have saved this episode to come back to. Best one yet IMO!

[@robpz448]

Kristen - I paused the video at 12:58. EVERYTHING you said is EXACTLY what I thought and what I've went through in the past several months up to the Dr saying "the next step would be an SSRI." This stems from a traumatic separation from somebody I knew for 14 years and also an issue I am having in terms of urology that I won't get into here but I might need a procedure to fix it. These things are giving me severe anxiety and it's hard to relax at night to sleep. Continuing the video .. 40 minutes in ... Continuing the video. Incredible. I think getting caught up on the "sleep hygiene" can definitely cause anxiety in itself. I am going to watch videos more and no it doesn't have to be asmr , it can be something "juicy." After all , that is what I did before I used to sleep before all these traumatic events took place !

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you found this Rob 😊 this interview has resonated with so many in our community. Thanks for sharing and hope you’ll see things get easier.

[@robpz448]

@thesleepcoachschool8192 Update - So , I tried to sleep yesterday. I fell asleep at about 930 / 10 o clock woke up around 12 and stayed awake tossing and turning. I think in-between that time I got little bursts of sleep and there but nothing straight through. I can fall asleep just fine but staying asleep through the night is the issue!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Rob, you know, sometimes one word is so helpful to see: “tried”, it’s tricky but when we put effort into something passive, when we try, then we have this choppy sleep or don’t sleep… when we no longer try, it happens by itself 🙂

[@robpz448]

@thesleepcoachschool8192 That's some Jedi stuff there. Speaking of which , I used to be able to sleep like a Jedi Master , now I can't. Especially after all these traumatic events and urological issues !

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Yes, it’s indeed very much Yedi/Mindfulness/Zen stuff that helps. Like seeing we never had an ability, it’s just what non-effort can look like in the Rearview mirror.

[@louisedavison3126]

I’ve had chronic, awful insomnia for 25 years and this is giving me hope. It would be good to know if these success stories are from one on one sessions, the group sessions or just from reading/listening to your podcasts and books.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you’re here Louise. And you know, they are all of the above. Kristen for example never worked with a coach, she just followed the KZbin channel.

[@MB-hl4qt]

Wow, this was amazing, insightful and hopeful ❤ thank you both!!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So so glad you found this MB 😊!! And thanks for the encouragement 🙏

[@OK-Take5]

Oh can I ever relate. Hearing this is so distressing but true, every bit of it.

[@michelleweil6672]

Incredible story - thanks for sharing Kristen!!

[@musicbus84]

Oh my goodness, I feel like she's telling my story 😅.. I had 2 babies (back to back) and gosh that was rough.. been hooked on Benedryl and now taking my hubbies baclofen..😢. . So I'm looking for solutions .. very helpful

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you found this and that it resonated 🙂 And we do have a momsomnia playlist, it’s in the description of any new video, this can help. Let us know how things go

[@smilewidedontbeshy]

So inspiring! Gives a reason to believe!

[@bethgwin1921]

Bravo Kristen! Thank you for sharing your precious story!!! I can relate to a lot of what you said...

[@JordyLaundrie]

I have a similar issue to Peter. I am JUST now starting to use these methods for the first time. I figured getting out of bed and doing something I enjoy was the first step. I struggled last night, and after a half hour in bed I got out of bed and sat on the couch scrolling social media (which I usually enjoy) but in the back of mind I couldn’t think about anything but sleep. I couldn’t enjoy myself because the anxiety was still there. It’s difficult for me to get out of bed in general because I’m so warm and comfortable in bed. Usually I am halfway asleep, just laying there I’m thinking “only a few more minutes and I’ll be asleep” (which never happens). So just getting out of bed was a big step for me. I’m just not sure how to put aside the anxiety enough to enjoy myself at night.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Jordan and AMJ, You know, the idea with befriending wakefulness is just really to teach the brain that it’s safe to be awake. If we get out of bed or not, it doesn’t really matter, I think what does is to take a gentle path, to not push ourselves or be hard on ourselves… if you do anything that is not trying to force yourself to sleep, that IS befriending wakefulness…enjoying yourself is super nice but isn’t easy or required… hope this helps.. thank for being here!

[@JordyLaundrie]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you for responding! I just got done reading your book and it was lovely. If I lay in bed just relaxing and telling myself affirmations and that it’s okay to be awake, etc. will it still cause a bad association with bed? I know it will take time to retrain my brain to see being awake as something that’s okay.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Anytime! And so glad the book arrived and made sense 😊 There’s really no problem doing something in bed like kind self talk. The idea that we should only sleep in bed is confused, it thinks the bed is the thing that we are scared of when it’s actually being awake. We don’t need to understand that the bed is safe, but that we are safe being awake regardless of where we are. This said, one thing to be aware of is mantras. Affirmations are tricky because they can become this. - What often happens when you learn that teaching the brain that being awake isn’t a threat is the idea to repeat this so it sinks in. For example you may go to bed saying “I’m safe” repeatedly like a mantra. Now the tricky thing here is that yes, when the brain understands that there’s nothing dangerous about being awake (even at night) then you sleep easily, but this knowledge can’t be forced! It’s sort of like when you know your friend is wrong about something. The more you tell them they’re wrong, the more pressured and defensive the conversation becomes and the less likely that your friend changes opinion. Similarly the mantra often just makes the brain feel pressure and that there’s really is something going on it needs to stay on top of. So instead of a mantra, what really helps is almost the opposite, listening to the brains mantra. When you hear “what if I can’t sleep? What if this doesn’t work? What if I can’t function tomorrow?” then you take not of this. You listen to these warning signals from the brain, without judgement and without trying to change them, then the brain sees you’re listening and it can stop the warning signals.

[@JordyLaundrie]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 you are exactly right. I tried the mantra thing last night. I messaged my brother saying “I don’t know why I’m not calming down? I keep telling myself that it’s okay to be awake, telling myself this over and over” his response was exactly your response! “Reassuring yourself constantly is just telling your brain that something is wrong with being awake. The pep talks are still you *trying* to sleep.” It wasn’t until I let go of my thoughts that I finally slept. If I started feeling anxious again I just sort of redirected my attention back to something else that was neutral (like a craft project I want to do, a movie I watched, what happened yesterday, etc.) and it helped. I’ve been telling my brother about your techniques too, which is how he gave me that great advice. Thank you so much! I will keep on keeping on and practicing letting go.

[@pauliesayers4246]

"So tired, but so wired"!!! Walking like a zombie (the world war Z type not the walking dead type) into my 8th month of chronic insomnia, with often multiple nights in a row of zero hours sleep. I'm still totally 'bewildered' at how I am still upright and functioning relatively normally, though my analytically adapted brain constantly reminds me that this is definitely not normal and needs swift resolution or a swifter demise will inevitably ensue.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hang in there Paulie, hope what you find here will help. Let us know how things go

[@krislewis1645]

How are u now paulie sayers?

[@troikaness]

I totally resonate with this. I've had insomnia for about 20 years. I've recently been diagnosed with ADHD and have had general anxiety disorder for years, which definitely snowballed my insomnia very quickly back when it started (literally within the fist 2 days of being unable to sleep). Similar story with insomnia and pregnancy / post-partum. It was torture! The only time I haven't struggled with sleep at all was during lockdown. I was working from home and looking after my daughter. Knowing that I didn't have to get up at 7am for work/the school run seemed to remove my hyper arousal around sleep. I would watch Netflix in bed and could pretty much roll out of bed at 9am and start work and have breaks to spend with my daughter and finish my work as and when I pleased... so the performance anxiety and life-pressure was hugely decreased. However, since then it's been back with a vengeance! I had a massive burn out just before christmas due to work stress and not sleeping well... which lead to me having increased day-time anxiety followed by panic attacks at night time... which I'm struggling to get out of. However, I've been watching all of your videos (and podcasts whilst I work) and reminding myself to focus on something I enjoy during my wakefulness (which also happens to be Netflix). Last week for the first time since I can remember I felt very sleepy at work (I'm usually running on anxious energy or just drained... but I actually felt my sleep drive for once). So it was interesting to hear Kristen say that that was when she knew there was hope. I have also noticed that there have been a couple of evenings too, this last week, where I feel my sleep drive kicking in around 7pm, which I've had to push through as I have an 11 year old daughter. And of course, by the time she's in bed, I've been wide awake again! What would you suggest to do in these situations? My daughter did say to me last week to go to bed and she would just chat to her friends online but I have mom guilt around that. I'm a single mom so it's tricky. P.s I'm not sure if you remember but when you were training Veronika, I was her first test patient. I keep going back to my memory of that session and reminding myself to 'embrace the wakefulness'. Thank you for all of your videos.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

I’m so glad it resonated and I vaguely remember the call, thanks for being in touch 🙂 And you know, there’s no shortage of sleep drive when we have trouble sleeping. It’s just when we try to catch it sometimes then we have the hyperarousal that masks it. I think really just the fundamental understanding, that can come from watching like you are, this leads to where we want to be

[@Statuescrumbleforme]

Hello Kristen! This was fantastic and inspiring. Thank you for having the courage to put yourself out there. I am a fellow physician and your story resonates with me so much. I would love to connect with you if that is possible whether it is linkedin or email etc.

[@kristaquin]

Sure! Feel free to drop your email here (I’m too chicken to put mine out at the moment) 🙃

[@Statuescrumbleforme]

@@kristaquin Probably not a good idea to put email out. I'll connect with you on Linked In. Thank you!

[@MilkTeaASMR]

I loved her story and it shows how frustrating insomnia can be and how people try to cope with it amidst the many medical solutions offered and how those don’t always work. I thank her for over preparing because it flowed very well. I can see why she got into med school and a big thank you to this channel! ❤

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So so glad you found it, and thanks for the encouragement 🙏

[@lindadempsey-p6t]

my first time on from bein in icu with septis one per chance to live five years ago now cant sleep every nite same getting worse glad found this hope to get sleep again

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you’re here after everything that happened, hope you’ll find all you need here

[@anofeisanofe2718]

My insomnia hit me like a truck this past week seemingly out of nowhere. It seems like I'm physically incapable of sleeping. I feel like I have both the gas, and break pressed to the floor at the moment, and I feel so defeated. I hear stories like Kristen's and I just am in awe. Such strength. I'm so unsure throughout my days recently if I can go on like this. I just want relief. Is it okay to take pills for the short term when you're doing terribly? How do I judge trying to find time to sleep with befriending wakefulness when I can't fall asleep? Sorry for the rant, it's just been 36 hours since I've last slept.

[@lucylight176]

I am so with you. Going through it too. Totally understand. We need to crack this letting go thing xx

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Anofe, I’m so glad you found value in Kristen’s story. And you know, when it comes to pills I think it helps much to think about them as we think about vitamins. Pills can’t make us sleep (similarly we often know that vitamins may not do THAT much) and we can take pills thinking if it as an act of self love, like we do with vitamins. This way there’s no conflict and friction. Finding time, I think if we decide to get up at let’s say 7 and we don’t sleep before let’s say 11, then that’s our time when we allow sleep time happen… this can help.. hang in there!

[@nirupaggnirupa2036]

Hi..this is a new subscriber here from India..this story resonates so much with me..the feelings she describes could hav been mine..been an insomniac for 10yrs but intensified since last 5-6 months..It got so bad that at a point I felt I was going mad wondering what was wrong with my brain that it doesn't want to rest atal..registering this as hyperarousal now..tried al supplements suggested so called sleep channels thinking I was deficient in something that was causing this"abnormality"..worst thing was that no1 understood the magnitude of this problem..was left feeling extremely lonely n depressed..then I heard abt cbti for the 1st time a month ago..3 channels hav saved my sanity n urs is 1 of them..I feel safer with ur methods than classic cbti since restricted bed times causes more anxiety in me..yday I slept for possibly 3hrs but I was completely ok with it..I told myself iam simply hyperaroused n that it's not a bad nite..I hope I can b free of insomnia 1 day..thank u coach Daniel

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So so glad you found your way here and that we are on of the channels that helped so much 😊

[@StellaGzzzz]

It makes me feel very anxious that it took 15 years or longer for people to heal from insomnia I have it for a month now and now I’m afraid that I’m stuck with it for years

[@kirstenlecq4553]

Hi, these episodes are really helpful. I am struggling with sleep for two months now. Getting good sleep one night and bad sleep the next night. Kristen is telling about the pendulum. Is there an episode about this?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Kirsten, so glad you found them helpful. And yes, we have at least one video on this. Try to search Insomnia insight pendulum and I think you’ll find it. If not let me know!

[@ferny.wizzle]

Kristen, you’re awesome and inspiring! Just discovering this video now and it’s really helping me stay mentally positive. I’m in the yo yo phase and I’m still in the process of befriending wakefulness. I still have some anxiety as night approaches and if things don’t go well within the first hour or so of bed my hyperarousal can kick in strong and I may not sleep at all that night. Any suggestions would be great. I’ve read Claire Weekes and her work regarding acceptance has helped so far but I still get these almost conditioned hyperarousal responses when I haven’t fallen asleep. I feel like I need to try the juicy Netflix shows😂

[@kristaquin]

Shucks ☺️ The juicier the show, the easier it gets to let the hyperarousal/anxiety be there 🧃

[@sandraburr-c5y]

Good job! Thanks for

[@SallyBrennan-vz6cv]

Hi Kristen, I’ve watched this video so many times. There are so many similarities between my struggle and yours. I’d really love to chat to you about a few things. Would you mind doing that) ? I’d be so grateful

[@manfredkohnen7479]

What a terrific video. I can relate so much to your story. But what I still don't get is how to "befriend wakefulness". The brain sees being awake as a threat, it has learnt this maybe for years. HOW on earth can u then befriend being awake? How for ex. can u watch a Netflix series and not being afraid in the night? And what happens when u watched an episode? The anxiety is still there, isn't it? And, Kristen - u struggled so much, didn't u get depressed? What did it do to ur mood during the day? I obsess about sleep and it really drags me down. Thanks a lot!!!

[@kristaquin]

Hi Peter. I remember thinking that "befriending wakefulness" seemed ridiculous...just an insurmountable task. Getting to a place of just tolerating it was a huge process. I had to dissect the thought patterns that led me to fear wakefulness in the first place, and then challenge those thoughts. It was along these lines: Why does my brain fear wakefulness/sleeplessness? Any/all of the following beliefs: 1) that my wellbeing will be compromised (e.g., I might develop dementia or cancer, or I will just feel lousy/be in a bad mood), 2) I won't be able to function if I don't sleep (e.g., I might make mistakes at work, or get into a car accident while driving home), and 3) being awake at night is an awful experience (as we learned from #TheBigOne). Each of these has contributed to putting/keeping wakefulness on the brain's safety radar. I had to challenge ALL of these beliefs by collecting evidence. Starting with #1: there is no evidence that insomnia causes health problems or shortens lifespan (Insight #422, Talking Insomnia #53, Insight #59, etc). Regarding the effects on my mood: I starting taking note of the "OK moments" (as Martin Reed calls them) I had after a bad night and even noted the bad moments I had on days after OK nights (I even journaled this so I could reference it when doubts resurfaced). For #2: I started listing my accomplishments during times of little sleep as a reminder that I haven’t lost my ability to function (and reminded myself that hyperarousal keeps the senses sharp!). For #3: when faced with wakefulness/sleeplessness, do whatever feels like the least amount of struggle and take note of tendencies to engage in safety behavior and/or sleep effort (note the change from my previous answer, which was to find anything that makes it feel OK to be awake...refer to Open Class #144 for more details). I also practiced a decent amount of "observing" thoughts too...I remember coming home from work and going up to my bedroom to change clothes. As soon as I'd enter the bedroom, I'd get an adrenaline rush. The underlying thought was almost always, "Oh no, what if I don't sleep again?" Over time, instead of always challenging/balancing that thought, I'd just acknowledge that it was there and why it was there. I'd be like, "There's that thought again. Of course I have that thought. That's my brain looking out for me. I get where it's coming from." I'd remind myself that my brain sensed danger and was trying to send me signals to avoid the danger, via thoughts and emotions, to produce an action that would keep me safe. It was harder to see this in the middle of the night, when I would still be mostly fused with my thoughts. Practicing during the day eventually helped with the night-time thoughts. The adrenaline rush was gradually extinguished. Daniel has a series of talks on thoughts and emotions that I found helpful: kzbin.info/aero/PL6RQ1GS7B1cg3C52ZDmkS4cEPLlluSp2n kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXu9d4Jtobx6l6s And from Martin Reed: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2PXm4CNq6eUjdU

[@manfredkohnen7479]

@@kristaquin Thanks so much for your reply. I can relate so much to your story. I think my sleep anxiety is an OCD-theme and when I hear u talking about obsessing, ear worms... it reminded me of OCD too. But whatever. May I ask further questions: 1) How did u exactly work with these thoughts? Did u set up some time each day and write down those fearful thougths and then challenge them? 2) What did u do when these thougths come at night when "trying" to sleep - did u observe them? Challenge them?... 3) My biggest fear is that insomnie affects my moods so much that it leads to depression and potentially suicide. How to deal with it? U know, in these "dark moments", many insomnicas have "dark thoughts". Thanks in advance, Kristen.

[@kristaquin]

@@manfredkohnen7479 Maybe earworms and obsessions are just some of the ways our brains keep busy, eh? Your question of how to work with thoughts is a good one, and I'm wishing I could go back and put some of this stuff into the video! I just typed out my thoughts into Google Docs. I did it whenever I sensed that my thoughts/emotions were affecting my functioning, whether at work or at home. Then after I could see the thoughts, and the emotions they produced, I would ask myself CBT-type questions: what's the evidence for this thought? What's the evidence against this thought? What would you tell a friend who has this thought? Etcetera. I only did this during daytime hours, not at night, since the brain can be less rational overnight. At night is when I mainly just tried to do a thing I liked (less thinking, more doing overnight). As for the dark thoughts: absolutely, the brain feels cornered and is looking for a way out.

[@abigailhepworth5996]

@@kristaquin Hi Kristen, really enjoyed this interview.After nearly a year of insomnia & like you horrendous experience with CBTI which left me so anxious, I found this channel.I understand so much more now.I get 7-10 days of reasonable sleep, then I will pull a couple of all-nighters.This week for the last 4 nights I haven’t slept.Did you get periods like this? Just need a bit of reassurance really as after 4 nights am feeling a bit scared!

[@kristaquin]

​@@AMJSKATESHOP YES. I remember specific parts of songs being particularly sticky. It was extra annoying when I thought it was the reason I wasn't sleeping. My brain was trying hard to find a reason for me being awake and would latch onto anything. Hunger also became a thing I focused on as a possible explanation for the early waking, so I was even snacking in bed in hopes that it would help me sleep. :-I

[@Fatima-ug5rj]

Oh my God I have same performance anxiety

[@rahulpardeshi6646]

Hi Fatima how's sleep now

[@rahulpardeshi6646]

Have u joined coaching

[@me2also]

Thank you so much! Everything in this episode was so helpful. Love that she gave episodes numbers. I did take notes. Her description of taking a CBT-I class was very similar to mine. I took Dr Jacobs class at the end I felt so discouraged, I felt that insomnia would be the cause of my death.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So many have said this, it’s really a shame because we are told it’s the “gold standard”… and wasn’t Kristen an amazing guest!!

[@kristaquin]

I'd like to put CBT-I in a sack, and toss the sack in a river, and hurl the river into space! (anyone know where this quote derives from?)

[@me2also]

Totally agree, I seriously wonder if the CBT-I industry is in bed with the sleep medication industry. I finished that program much worse than i started.

[@kristaquin]

@@me2also Surely it has led me to question lots of things about medicine, academia, and "traditional" science :-I

[@allyjhughes]

Omg I love Kristen!!

[@kristaquin]

❤️

[@SallyBrennan-vz6cv]

Hi Kristen, I have really resonated with your video so much! Is there any chance I could connect with you to ask you a few questions about your experience? Thank you ☺️

[@namrahshah3256]

Hey Kristen, just wanted to know how many days and how often you used to take clonazepam or any other sleeping pill?

[@valerie963]

What an inspiration! I’m similar minus the kiddos! Did she do a specific program with you? The app? Just curious! Also curious how she got off her meds. Weaning off and had any sort of withdrawals? I’m now off mine but did it carefully but I’m curious of her journey!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

She’s such an inspiration indeed! She was a guest at a later point as well… if you browse you’ll find it. She studied the videos and read Set it & Forget it, she didn’t join our programs.

[@tammyritter1277]

I was wondering about the medication too. Do you mind sharing how you weaned off and which meds?

[@ritikaray928]

@Kristen P Hello Kristen.I had developed insomnia during my pregnancy.Daniels channel helped me a lot to understand my thoughts and to cope with it.I am a lot better now.But I still have lot of fear and am not yet reached the stage where I can totally accept sleeplessness.I have very recently delivered my second baby and have started nursing him.I badly fear what if my insomnia returns and will it affect my supply.I didn't deal with such obsessive thoughts in my last postpartum.Kindly advice.

[@kristaquin]

Ah, just saw this now, but it looks like we connected in the comments section of the more recent video. But in case someone else sees this and reads this, I'll put my short answer here: milk supply depends on frequency of stimulations, not sleep. Thanks again for asking this :)

[@ritikaray928]

@@kristaquin Hi Kristen ..yes..we connected in another episode. I would like to know from your experience that how long did it take to reach to a point where you just didn't care about the night's sleep.This Seems to be the toughest nut to crack for me. I still have these recurrent thoughts about sleeplessness. Regards Ritika

[@kristaquin]

@@ritikaray928 Yep, this was the crux of the matter! I found Daniel's material in the summer, and it was by winter that I wasn't attached to the outcome of the night.

[@lilianavargas9089]

@@kristaquin hi Kristen I wanted to ask as a new mom how do I deal with my insomnia coming back after giving birth and adjusting to my baby’s sleep schedule. She wakes every two or so hours to feed and I started feeling what being sleep deprived felt like again reminding me of insomnia. Now I’m scared again about pulling all nighters. I had delt with insomnia last year but with daniels help learned to overcome it but now I feel it creeping in

[@kristaquin]

@@lilianavargas9089 Ah yes, good old-fashioned fear of fear...fearing the insomnia coming back. I've experienced that too, for sure. Daniel has a video on fear of fear, and around 7 minutes in, he touches on fear of insomnia (Insomnia insight #443). It's so natural to fear the insomnia coming back when we're faced with sleep disruption! I was using sleep disruptions as sort of a test to see whether I still had insomnia. If one of my kids woke me at night, I would check in with myself to see whether I was annoyed/afraid to be awake (insomnia), versus just awake (simple sleep disruption). If I sensed some resistance to being awake, I'd sort of remind myself that it's harmless, that I can still fully be myself regardless of sleep, etc and just try to pass the time in whatever way feels best. It helped to have some Netflix show lined up so that I had something to kinda look forward to, though sometimes all I did was lie there. It also helps to look at things from a hyperarousal standpoint. Some of us just have super safe brains that are quick to produce hyperarousal to make sure we stay safe and keep our loved ones safe. It totally makes sense to deploy hyperarousal when caring for a newborn. If some of our hyperarousal is stemming from fear about being sleepless (insomnia), then we can use our sleeplessness/wakefulness as "continuing education" for the brain's safety system, to demonstrate that we are safe (by not forcing sleep as an escape).

[@LynneFox-to7nu]

What if you can’t stay in the bed because your partner is sleeping. When I go downstairs to watch tv I then dread going back to bed because the fear kicks off again. Feels a bit of a hurdle befriending wakefulness when I can’t relax and do things in my bed. Sometimes if I go downstairs to watch tv I sometimes fall asleep on the coach . Any advice would be welcome. Thank you

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Lynne, you know, so often we think we will disturb our parter by reading or watching something in bed... but our partner may REALLY want us to do well and have no problem at all with us staying in bed... often our partners are more frustrated because they don't know how to help... so check with your partner! Let us know how things go

[@lucylight176]

Guys this is so interesting to me. Completely understand the hell you have been through xx I have had fantastic breakthroughs before by being finally able to sort of flip my mind into a 'I don't have this problem, I am normal' type mindset. Almost like turning my back from it and looking in the healthy direction. But after a while something would trigger me back, doubt would creep in and I'd be back to v brutal insomnia. I feel at a crossroads because I do love that clicking into place belief certainty feeling, but I also realize I need this more passive, allowing accepting feeling too, especially if it's kicked in in the night (mind-type hypnic jerks), the adrenalin's pumping & I'm feeling v doomed. I am aiming for a sort of balance of both, a feeling of confidence that this method you speak of will work, that I can do it -as well as the letting go into that. I hope I have explained this clear enough. The whole mindset thing feels v important to me. Many thanks.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Lucy, so glad you found interest here and this makes so much sense. On one hand learning and having aha moments and belief feels good (!), but it’s also not required in any way, it’s like you said ultimately a mindset of letting go that leads us to a peaceful place.. it sounds like you’re on a really nice and gentle trajectory 😊

[@lucylight176]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 But Daniel, sadly I find it almost impossible to let go without the aha moment in place first. My problem is mind/brain-based hypnic jerks- my brain looks for the dreams coming in and wakes me. It's beyond torture. If I let go I'm still having to keep getting woken as soon as the relief of sleep comes in (so painful) and keep facing more or it. If I don't have the solution in place up-front it seems, I suffer terribly. My body is in so much pain these days, I am really scared for my health, job, family and sanity. I so want to let go and not get caught up in it -do you really think it is possible for me with this unusual type of problem? It does help that you think I am on a good trajectory with my realizations, breakthroughs and setbacks but lately I am feeling I have dug & got lost in a huge rabbit-hole :-/

[@lucylight176]

To add to that -thinking about all this -then perhaps in my case I need to befriend my brain-jerks? Befriend the fact that they wake me up violently ....so that the terrible fear of them dissipates and then the jerks themselves will subside? Should I expect them to happen instead of trying to fix a positive mindset that they won't? This is a v radical change and I'd like to be sure. So many thanks Daniel.

[@lucylight176]

The aha-moments you called them are really me needing to believe I can do this up-front. I feel a need to believe in advance. At least to some degree you see...

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Lucy, Yes you know, the process of learning that there’s nothing we can do to sleep…it’s a painful one unfortunately. Every time we think we have something, and learn we didn’t, it’s painful… and it often leads to us feeling hopeless and disheartened… but you know, this is actually something we can learn so much from. When we feel discouraged, it is a signal from the brain that what we are doing isn’t working. It is similar to frustration but almost like a step further. When we are frustrated we are still sort of eager to try more, but when we are discouraged or disheartened we almost feel like giving up. And this is very important because in this case, the message you were getting from the brain is actually a very sound one. When we try and try and try and try and we still don’t see what we want to see, that probably means we should stop trying. This is the message from the brain when we feel discouraged or disheartened. So what is it that we have tried to do? It is controlling sleep or controlling our thoughts or emotions. Maybe you have wondered why you are still feeling anxious, maybe you have wondered why you’re still not having stable and predictable sleep. This is evidence that you have been trying to control things that become more slippery the more we try to control them. And when you feel discouraged, this is the brain signaling that it wants you to abandon what you’ve been trying. Most of the time when we have trouble sleeping, it is because the brain thinks it is dangerous to be awake and we have to educate it because it’s confused! But in this case, the brain is very wise and it is onto something very very helpful and important. Feeling discouraged and disheartened is a signal that it’s time to let go of the attempts at control that have been there.

[@onyerbike4713]

How do you befriend wakefulness when you've had 2 nights in a row of no sleep and feel absolutely awful? My lack of sleep has left me SO fearful 😢

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi there, So sorry to hear about these hard times. But thanks for sharing and being here. When I teach about befriending wakefulness I often emphasize doing something you like to do or even enjoy. This is because it is so counterintuitive and kind of makes you go “aha!”. To turn being awake at night into something enjoyable can really teach the brain that there’s nothing to be afraid of. But there is a challenge here. If it seems important to do something that is enjoyable, it can feel like a challenge. Especially when you’re tired and you would like to sleep and you just don’t feel like doing anything in particular. Now here is the thing, the whole point with befriending wakefulness is again just to teach the brain that there’s nothing to be afraid of. And you can do this even if you’re not particularly enjoying the night. Even when you feel bored or annoyed, you are safe. So you can allow yourself to feel any which way you feel - but still point out to the brain that you are safe. That you are not harmed whatsoever. It also doesn’t matter where you are and what you do. Maybe you just want to rest in bed? Maybe you want to have some hot tea and a snack. Again, when you’re not trying to make sleep happen, this is befriending wakefulness. This teaching I hope can lead to both taking away any pressure to do something you enjoy but also still teach the brain that being awake is safe and you are not in any danger.

[@RadhikaNanda-k1d]

This is great but how can you befriend it when you know it will feel awful the next day? I know I will survive but I will feel awful and I fear that feeling

[@lauravoss9213]

Ahhh..dint sleep for days and days..trauma etc...do you treat it the same way. We are talking days on end of 0 sleep

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Laura, so sorry this happened and yes, in our way we teach the same teachings to everyone... hope they will help you

[@ann-b3n]

Hello Laura, how are you? For me the Same Problem 0 sleep

[@germanshepherdmom1143]

I am going through similar difficulties. I have sleep anxiety because I need my rest every single night. I can’t skip a night. The reason why it’s so important is because I’m trying to gain muscle. Without sleep, I sometimes lose muscle, not much but some. I’m older now.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi GSM, check the episodes with Aryan and Brittany and Rob, all athletes who had this concern!

[@eugenekim5266]

Great story Kristen! I have been dealing with my insomnia for about 2 1/2 years. Currently I’m in a bad yo-yo state where one or two nights in a row, I’ll have completely no sleep to 1-2 hours of sleep followed by a “good night” of maybe 5 1/2 - 6 hours. I’m currently doing sleep restriction therapy where I don’t spend more than 5 1/2 - 6 hours in bed but I notice on many nights, I get the physical symptoms of anxiety right away in bed such as vertigo, palpitations, jerks, etc. and then the night turns into a completely sleepless one because I’m in a hyperaroused state for the rest of the evening. I also enjoy watching Netflix and when I can’t sleep, I’ve been having some courage getting out of my warm and comfortable bed to watch Netflix in a different area but it’s really hard to enjoy it fully like when it’s not during my sleep window time because my eyes sting from tiredness and I start to be conscious of how long an episode of whatever I’m watching is and my brain starts doing calculations at that point. Was your recovery a gradual approach where once you had your “ah hah” moment of befriending wakefulness through online shopping, you gradually spent more and more time in bed as your sleep got better or were you already at that point, completely over the CBT-I methods and not doing sleep restriction and after befriending wakefulness, it was a very swift recovery?

[@kristaquin]

Hi Eugene, I can definitely relate to you. I'm glad you're asking this because these details might help you and/or someone else. Sleep restriction was one of the first things I dropped, in exchange for Daniel's "timeless sleep window," which was underway by the time I had my online shopping night (I vividly recall blocking the time on my laptop to keep the night timeless). Side note: my therapist was so irritated by the timelessness because we couldn't calculate sleep efficiency this way (I could tell he loved to crunch the numbers because it was a "tangible" thing to do!). I was much slower to abandon stimulus control (SCT). At first, I'd go watch Netflix in another room, where I'd often nod off for a bit--which is basically cheating on SCT. Haaaaaated getting out of my comfy bed for this, and yes, I remember having bleary eyes, and for sure I was calculating time based on how many episodes had passed...it was when I started watching some really juicy things that I could forget/ignore how much time had passed because I was so into the show. As for the bleary eyes: that's partly why I recline to the point where my eyes are barely open when looking at the screen lol. I can't recall precisely when it was that I got some viral illness and was sick for a few days, but I used that as an excuse to stay in bed when awake, which I wouldn't have felt OK with if not for having Daniel's "permission." There was lots of Netflixing in bed around this time, and I noticed that the more I ignored the rules of SCT, the better I felt. It still felt like an eternity before I was OK with being awake at night. There were plenty of struggles along the way, but gradually, my reaction to being awake went from full-blown panic to minimal irritation after many, many exposures to wakefulness. There were many moving parts--definitely not a clear trajectory despite my story seeming to have a clear timeline. Suffice it to say that replacing SRT and SCT with Daniel's "timeless sleep window" and "befriending wakefulness," respectively, was one of the best things ever in my life.

[@eugenekim5266]

@@kristaquin Thank you so much for sharing such details! I'm not there yet (I'm currently in like my 4th or 5th iteration of the yo-yo stage during my 2 1/2 year insomnia struggle), but I hope to get to the next stage where I can befriend wakefulness without going into full-blown panic of being awake in the middle of the night. When I listened to your story, I was thinking "all these thoughts, worries, and even actions such as the pillow and blankets at work" were exactly what I was going through this whole time. I'm glad you're in a much better place sleepwise and I look forward to the day I've given up my struggle and sleep well again.

[@elainep.204]

Her story is very similar to mine minus of course the sucess part. Still stuck in the talking to a therapist and doing self help stuff. Stuck with a concoction of sleeping pills and other things like alcohol. I dont care what i take in the momentt, but then so much guilt amd frustration trying to get over this but nothing is helping. I feel like my life is over. Im interested in learning just like she has. Where do i start? Which episode?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Elaine, so sorry to hear about the struggle but, also glad you’re here and you found this video. There are many stories like Kristen’s, those can be a great place to start. Also, we just created a free course with the foundational teachings, if you head over to our website and scroll to Ready-to-Sleep in 5 days, you can sign up there. Rooting for you

[@elainep.204]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thanks so much!

[@heidisaldana8422]

I have read and reread your book many times. I had 23 days of great sleep and now I’m back to not sleeping again. How do I not care when I feel like complete trash the next day? I have five kids and I have things to do and I need to take care of stuff. I try to make it positive with video games and treats, and I let myself lay down in bed even But I fear not sleeping because it’s hell the next day. My problem is that I wake up at six and I can’t fall back asleep, so I’m thinking that laying in bed during the day is OK because initially falling asleep is easy for me. Please advise me on how to not fear feeling like crap if I don’t fall back asleep. Great episode that I completely relate to other than having energy the next day when I don’t sleep. Thank you!!

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Heidi, So glad things got easier and you know, that’s experiencing letting go! Now speed bumps are a very normal and I’d say important part of the journey, check the speed bump playlist and I think you’ll find it really helpful

[@heidisaldana8422]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you! Where do I find it? I’m sorry, I’m new here. I tried searching it

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi! If you google something like “how do find playlists” you’ll see how to find all of them 👍

[@kerrywilliams2375]

I stumbled across your channel today and just watched this episode as I’m full of hyperarousal and have the fear about going to bed soon but I have to say Kirsten’s story did make me lol and I could relate so much to her esp the ear worms-they have driven me crazy for months! I too was on the verge of signing up to Martin reads cbti programme even though I’ve been trying to implement the ‘rules ‘ for the past month with no success just misery 😢so I will plough through your videos and am hopeful they will help me🤞 Thank you Ps I just ordered your book too 😊

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Kerry, So glad you found your way here 😊 And Kristen’s story, it’s so powerful and insightful! Thanks much for getting the book and the videos I hope will help much. Welcome 🤗!

[@JenS0513]

Im struggling with sleeping very little hours a night. Anywhere between 2-5 hours BROKEN 😞 this is all so new to me an I’m constantly waking up at night looking at the time. How should I stop this ? 😢 I’m in the acceptance faze… I went through the 4 nights straight no sleep last month..

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hang in there Jennifer, many who’ve taken this journey would recognize where you are, it gets easier thanks to your willingness to learn… rooting for you

[@krislewis1645]

How are you now jennifer santana?

[@JenS0513]

@@krislewis1645 emotionally better because sleep doesn’t consume my every thought. But I’m sleeping about 3-4 hrs straight then I wake up and it’s in increments and some days doesn’t feel like refreshing sleep. I am better then I was 3 months ago. How about you?

[@krislewis1645]

​@@JenS0513can i say feel better in last one month i sleep longer 6 to 7hrs .then happen again other night like very difficult too sleep like i close my eyes and i know that its hard for me too sleep tonight i think i got 3hrs that is shortest sleep i hv or 4hrs .make me cry sometimes and bit angry why why suddenly happen to me like this 😢😅.then im just gonna say okay accept it accept it nobody can help why i need too kneel down just beg for sleep eveynight and think everyday thats all coz the problem becoz i always think about sleep mybe .then just everynight i relax watch tv thats it but its hard for me now too fall sleep so fast .mybe acceptance is the key and just enjoy everynight of wakefulness .

[@krislewis1645]

​ that is your longer sleep already 3 to 4hrs?I got anxiety medication if i took it i sleep like a baby but i try too avoid .last month took 1pill then stop then lastnight i took 1 pill i sleep very well its not high dosage 1.5mg only so it cnt be addicted .becoz other night i sleep only 3hrs make me fear feeling again .if i really needed mybe.but i want my life again like before that we just can sleep if we have too😊😅😢🎉...

[@adobo1970]

Damn Daniel!!!! Sorry, that is a reference to a thing young teens used to say. Some meme related to shoes. Anyway, this evolution of CBT-i to this approach of NATTO with your corresponding roadmap is so refreshing and valuable to see. I have had to use CBT-i techniques twice in the last 15 years. The first time, insomnia was my primary issue. The second time (2018), the bout was triggered by another medical condition which is now a chronic issue. In both instances, I used primarily sleep restriction (or a sleep schedule, which is what I prefer to call it). Stimulus controls made sense to me in theory but in practice, I always found it to be counter productive. I modified how I used CBT-i wherein: - i had a sleep window wherein I could go to bed anytime as soon as my sleep window began (absolutely no checking clocks until the alarm clock goes off in the morning) - I modified stimulus control wherein I would stay in bed even when not sleeping for as long as I was not agitated or frustrated - I ditched keeping track of how much sleep i got, sleep efficiency and so on. I keep my sleep window as is 365 days a year. Many weekend days, I wind up sleeping in by a half hour or so. I guess in the end I wound up adopting a lot of what you are recommending to people. I am still a huge believer in CBT-i but I think you hit the nail on the head - practiced to the letter, it has shortcomings that are counter productive. These changes or what you have evolved it to make a lot of sense. Personally, the only thing I was still unclear about was, what to do when I am not asleep in bed. This is where "befriending wakefulness" is really genius. I used to get light headaches laying in bed not asleep. I think it was because I was actively trying to sleep. Recently, I had a night where I did not sleep for some time I did exactly what you suggested - do anything enjoyable in bed while not asleep. So i put on some youtube videos about the Webb telescope. I watched for a while and eventually fell asleep. No effort and I have no recollection of feeling any tension in my head (since I was not actively trying to sleep). Anyway, thanks for all the insights.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Haha I watched that original damn Daniel video just now 😂! And this - so so glad you found our new teachings helpful and you’d seen lots of this already 👍 Thanks so much for sharing, helps the community so much. Be well now and in touch!!

[@reneelanier3475]

So, do I understand correctly that Martin Reeds program didn’t help her?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Renee, I can’t remember what she said BUT, Martin is a friend and our thoughts have evolved in such a similar way. Sometimes it’s more where a student is at a given point that makes a difference… and sometimes it’s that what we taught a few years ago has evolved, or simply that we find a teaching style that fits us 🙂

[@mrsleeofficial8174]

I've been taking sleep pills for a few weeks now , i know my situation might be somewhat new, but I've had experiences of waking up every now and then at dawn and sometimes i stay on bed until 5 am just to sleep and get 2 hrs a day. For 2 weeks i haven't been sleeping well and the thing that made me worry more is because i also have a high blood pressure and i am also taking highpertension medicine so my main worry is for my hypertension to go bad so i didn't have a choice but to take the sleeping pills. Now I'm on zolpidem but even though i sleep after 15 minutes of taking it i still wake up at dawn but luckyly i could fall back to sleep easily. But my worry now is if i stop my sleeping pills will i be able to sleep at all? Have Palpitations too when i lie down on bed. Suddenly have break outs and thinking might be my hormones. Really don't know what to do too.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hey there! Thanks for sharing your experience. Just a quick heads-up: we're hosting live Q&A sessions most weeks and we'd love for you to join us! It's a great chance to ask questions, share insights, and connect with others in the community.

[@CJC1512]

Hi Kristen! Would love to get in touch with you directly, if you'd be willing! So many pieces of your story resonate and yet I am still struggling in anesthesia school... thanks! @kristaquin

[@romerjuli5406]

What specialty in medicine did she choose? I’m a medical student and this helped a lot☺️

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Romer! She mentions in this video looking through the microscope… that’s the clue 😉

[@kristaquin]

Are you wondering which specialty has the flexibility for daytime napping? :-D

[@romerjuli5406]

kind of:))) so is it Pathology?

[@romerjuli5406]

@@kristaquin did you have nights when you couldn’t sleep at all or have only light sleep? I just feel so alone in this situation:/

[@kristaquin]

​@@romerjuli5406 I just had one this week that was like that (possibly related to watching my own video and thinking "oh no I forgot to mention this and that, and that's not what I planned to say, and I used the wrong word there lol). There was no mystery as to why I wasn't asleep. I felt totally fine the next day because there was no energy lost to struggling/wondering/pondering. In the past, it would have been a huuuuge deal to have a nearly zero-sleep night, and that would lead to more panic the following night. Now, it's like I almost "dare" myself to go ahead and not sleep.

[@natashatwine7818]

Did she take the sleep school or did she listen to the podcast for her healing?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

She listened to the podcast and I think she got Set it & Forget it, but mostly just learning from the channel

[@natashatwine7818]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank you for responding. Does she have an email address?

[@Megatron986100]

Hello Kristen. When you were in bed, I’m sure you had mixed intentions: I’m watching something I like. If I sleep great. If not, that’s cool too. Did it ever tip to the point where your desire to sleep exceeded your interest in your show, etc. At that point, did you get out of bed?

[@Megatron986100]

Also, at what point were you comfortable ditching medications?

[@Megatron986100]

Another question for Kristen, would you attribute not being afraid after a night of no sleep due to befriending wakefulness?

[@thesecretschool4278]

You say that staying awake at night makes us not afraid of wakefulness but then the main thing with which the concept of wakefulness is scary is that if we dont sleep then our health will deteorioate rightt please give some explaination

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi, yes I think this is very very helpful to review, there are so many claims about how our health will deteriorate but - nothing that backs this up. Check our Heard Online series!

[@aya123444]

Lol the professionals are dumber than the patients. Ugh. I think only people who went through sleep issues should teach others how to overcome.

[@aya123444]

Dumber as more ignorant. Lol

[@sandycarlson3047]

Like like like is distracting even though what she's speaking about is great.

[@Muscleguy34]

This is the supplements I used to fix my hyper arousal , Vitamin D , B12 , Zinc , probiotics, fish oil, ashwgangda and magnesium before bed (try and drink 4 litres of a water a day and also 1 hr before bed read a book) this will fix your sleep I promise you! If use need anything let me know.

[@pereiraplaza222]

For me Ashwagandha gives me horrible insomnia even when taken in the morning

[@zincerish]

Still working??

[@zincerish]

When do u take it? Before bed?