Talking insomnia #85: From thinking she was the only one to understanding and peaceful sleep

[@lilianavargas9089]

Hi Daniel, I just came by to tell you I have been so much better since I last commented. I have been falling asleep without realizing after closing my eyes and waking up to my alarm for work in the morning! Which is something i was terrified of.. what helped was not caring if I went to work tired and still being productive , the fear just dissipated. I have learned so much from you this past year and I will pass the word and your channel around anytime I can ! Thank you

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Liliana! This is so wonderful to hear! And you know, it’s all thanks to your willingness to learn and do some heart work 😊 Thanks so much for the support and again for sharing this, made my day!!

[@briechilli4496]

Lovely Veronika, what a story. You are courageous ❤

[@DanyaPlumley]

Loved this, so helpful. Almost 2 years of suffering. Going to start educating myself on your channel. Thank you 3:45

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

So glad you doubt this video with Veronika and our channel, your willingness to learn will lead where you want to be 😊

[@aquelejonathan]

I haven't finished watching the episode yet, but whoa, what an incredible testimony, I identified with every thought of Veronika during her crises! What a brave human being! I am increasingly convinced that "Talking insomnia" is definitely the heart of this channel, Daniel. I'm addicted to these interviews, whenever some pessimistic thought pops into my mind or I have a bad night's sleep, I rewatch these episodes so I don't feel alone. So much so that, in her case, the first time she slept without medication was when the psychologist said that she also had a case of insomnia and managed to overcome it. In other words, the example of someone with hope is always powerful.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Jonathan! I love how this resonated so much that you had to pause and share right away! And totally, these episodes are really the heart of the channel. And you know what I’m so so excited about - I’m taking the transcript and working it into a book. And I can tell you this, seeing the words black on white, it’s even more powerful than in spoken form! I think this book will be “the one”.

[@Muscleguy34]

What a lovely story! Great job.

[@peace57]

Thank you so much Daniel and Veronika for this great interview. But i want to mention my experience during the video. My brain started sending me thoughts: " The experience of Veronika is tougher than yours..watch out. Maybe ur insomnia can getter worse in the future". This is an alarm for a perceived threat. But due to the education provided in this channel, i already know that this thought is just a signal from the brain. It cannot harm me and if i listen to it with acceptance, it will go by itself..fade away. Once i try to escape it, it will persist.

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Anytime Peace, and so so glad you’re seeing this so clearly 😊

[@ackphilchi6880]

Hi Veronica. With the pattern of insomnia coming back all these years how do you deal with the fear that it would come back again?

[@kristaquin]

Great story. Gosh, I think there could easily be a whole episode on insomnia in the pregnant/trying to conceive/peri-partum/post-partum period. The more I think about this, the more I can remember: 1) I postponed childbearing for many years because I wanted to wait till I could be done with the benzos that I was using for sleep. 2) I was told by a lactation consultant that I needed to get more sleep to be able to make enough milk. 3) I cut off contact with a close friend who was post-partum the same time I was, because the topic of sleep came up often, and I was constantly comparing my sleep to hers. 4) When I was in the throes of stimulus control, I was imposing those rules on my baby, trying to avoid ever having her upset in her crib or bedroom for even a minute. Raise your hand if you've ever identified.

[@Veronika-zy1to]

Hi Kristen, thank you. This is definitely a thing that I guess every woman who has a baby can relate to. 1 - this was the reason I gave my testimony. I wanted to inspire women that even when having insomnia, having a baby is not impossible and what is more with the help of Daniel and other coaches there is really hope for every insomniac willing to work on themselves. 2 - like this is something that needs to be explained! If someone is tired of course he catches up on sleep whenever possible. On the other hand I think she meant well, I guess the idea behind it is that if you can sleep just sleep, you do not have to clean up your house. Unfortunately, for those struggling with sleep it creates pressure and pressure makes sleep impossible. I think the best advice ever is - If your baby sleeps, take it as your free time! Do whatever you like, if you want to sleep, just sleep, if you feel like cooking or cleaning up, do it. If you want to just sit and look at the 1000th photo of your baby on your phone, just do it! There is no need to pressure ourselves. We are supposed to enjoy this time when our babies are still little. 3 - I can totally understand that we do not need to be constantly reminded how crappy our sleep is, anyway it is always in our minds. Once you are back on track, you can see each other again, if she was a good friend she will understand 4 - I see how you fear that your baby could suffer from insomnia. Again, something I can very relate to. Like I was fearing that I could pass insomnia on my baby. What I believe though is that our babies will never have long term insomnia! Why? Because they have very knowledgable mothers who will guide them to not to worry about sleep :)

[@kristaquin]

@@Veronika-zy1to 1. Cheers to that. 2. After a few weeks of nursing, I realized that milk production had nothing to do with sleep whatsoever. But it became yet another thing that I had to "uncouple" from sleep, just like sleep::happiness, sleep::functioning, sleep::health, the list goes on. It always seemed so easy to "couple" things to sleep, while the process of "uncoupling" took so much time and energy. X-O 3. True that. 4. Well, it wasn't as much a fear of my baby developing insomnia as it was just thinking that I could make bedtime easier if I worked hard to avoid a negative association with the bed. I agree that we will guide them to not worry about sleep!

[@benrobben8906]

@@Veronika-zy1to Hello Veronica, I have a question. I heard your story and it looks similar to mine. My question is I have heard and read articles that there is another type of sleep disorder that is not like ordinary insomnia. This disorder is said about it that it cannot be treated with these psychological methods. It is permanent and does not cure. Of course, I am not talking about fatal insomnia because it will kill you in In the end, I am talking about another type that seems similar to complete paradoxical insomnia, but it is not common, and I have seen people claiming that they do not sleep at all for many years and that their illness is not treated with these psychological methods. And That idea come to me that I would become like them and I got frustrated and I'm fraid that these methods, including the book by Daniel and Joseph, would not work to me, is this really realistic and could happen. I'm so sorry for the long post but I'm pretty sure you're the only one who can understand me. Thank you

[@Veronika-zy1to]

@@benrobben8906 Hi Ben, If I get it right, you are afraid that you have this permanent disorder and you got discouraged by reading their stories? If you can relate to my insomnia, I think you can relate to me getting over it. You know how I struggled, how I was not sleeping literally for years, sometimes I went really long stretches of 0-2 hours of sleep and still I got out of it completely. I think many people go through insomnia without adequate help, so there is where all these scary stories of ppl who suffered all their life come from. You can learn on this channel, or you can also sign up for bedtyme/insomnia immunity program or choose 1-1 coaching. In the insomnia immunity you can meet myself too :)

[@benrobben8906]

Thank you so much for your consideration. Yes you got me. Yes, I am afraid and skeptical of the existence of these different situations and frightening when researched and read about each these situations the ideas began in my mind what if I like them .will suffer like them read about strange situations and unbelievable yes read all this It discourages me from recovering. I have a question. Is there really a broken sleep mechanism like this I read about soory I look absurd

[@TrevorStoneaker]

Great interview

[@sandyallen1488]

Veronika, I’m so sorry you’ve had such a difficult time. I’ve just come upon this channel and also looking for some solutions. I wish you the best.

[@veronikapapezova7734]

Hi Sandy, thank you very much for your support! All the difficulties in my life led to becoming a person who I am now, and I am trying to do the best of it. There are things in life you cannot influence and there are things that you can change. Insomnia is surely one thing that can be changed. Hang on the channel, absorb it and you will see that insomnia is not what you might think of it now. All the best!

[@FinnandLoch]

Question: I seem to be doing kind of a biphasic sleep thing. I fall asleep, sleep for about four or five hours, wake in the middle of the night and, thanks to your book, relax and enjoy myself until I fall back asleep a few hours later. I sleep for another one to two hours and then start my day. Should I be concerned about this?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi FaL! I think in the world of sleep, when the question is “should I be concerned?” the answer is going to be no! Because concern is the reason we have insomnia! And you know, insomnia isn’t a sleep problem (!) it’s a manifestation of worry, just like palpitations or breathing fast. So when you teach the brain that there’s nothing to be afraid of, then you see that these awakenings become shorter and happen less, all thanks to you being ok with them in the first place!

[@ashvh115]

Hi Daniel!!! What episodes would you recommend for someone who gets anxious about feeling fully relaxed and then falling into sleep? I feel like it has led me into having GAD, and just being fearful, exhausted, depressed and SUPER self aware all the time. I'll try to avoid being tired because it can lead to anxiety! Or I'll monitor myself constantly. But of course when I get into bed, I can't avoid that! How do I overcome the fear of falling asleep and feeling fully relaxed? It all started with sleep anxiety and then spiraled from there. Thanks!!! :)

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi! You know, it can seem like if there was one particular episode that explained really well, then that key episode could change things! In reality, I think it’s so helpful to expect it to be a bit more of an educational journey… So I would say check any new video and in the playlist you’ll find them in the description, study the This is Natto and Success stories playlists, I think this will really help. All this said you can check episode 339 too 🙂

[@katiekummer26]

Hi! Have you found a solution to this monitoring of sleep? I'm dealing with this now

[@deannarid]

For many years I only have light sleep I never have deep sleep unless it’s falling alseep watching tv and toss and turn all night long I hope that some of the videos help ! Does any one else have this problem like me ?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Deanna, Listen to Talking insomnia 58, I think that could really resonate… hang in there and be in touch!

[@FearlessSleep]

Such an inspirational story! So glad to see Veronika on the channel!

[@veronikapapezova7734]

Thank you Ali! :)

[@manfredkohnen7479]

@@veronikapapezova7734 Amazing story! Thanks a lot for sharing. What don't understand very well: your insomnia created so much pain to you aso. - how does knowing that it is "just" a fear making the threat - with all the suffering it must feel like a big threat - any less real?

[@Veronika-zy1to]

@@manfredkohnen7479 Hi Peter, thanks! Well, at that time when I was at the psychologist, I was already in a state of thinking that this is going to be forever! I saw no hope, no light at the end of the tunnel. I knew no one like me. So when she told me that she had been through insomnia, that she knew what I was talking about, giving me no suspicious looks, which I experienced a few in the past, the feeling was so overwhelming, I was not thinking about the past sufferings. Even now I remember the feeling when I was going home from her office, thinking in my head "I will sleep, I will sleep!" and I could feel this overwhelming excitement all over my body. When I went to bed that night, I went with a big smile on my face, because I felt understood, heard, and hopeful. There was no single fear or anxiety thought in my head, so peaceful sleep could happen :)

[@manfredkohnen7479]

@@Veronika-zy1to Yes, but since u have been in such a deep and dark hole, how is it possible u don't fear going back?? Just knowing that it is fear doesn't change the dark spot u were in, does it?

[@Veronika-zy1to]

@@manfredkohnen7479 It is all about perspective. How you look at it. Imagine that you are in the dark spot, tired depressed, lifeless and you get a call that you have just won 1 million dollars. Would you still be in that dark spot? I guess not. In an instant you would jump out and scream to the world that you are a winner. Now I do not fear going back to that dark place. Never ever. With all the education I have now, knowing what was perpetuating my sleep issue. Once you understand the root cause, the fear, you can address it, work at it. Great part of understanding is that when I will not have insomnia anymore does not mean I will sleep like a baby every night. There will be bad nights, there will be disrupted sleep, and this is normal. Everyone here and then has a bad night, but does not start to have anxious thoughts. The other night a week or two ago I had a busy day and laid down to bed with a heavy heartbeat. My mind was racing, thoughts were chasing each other. I told myself. Ok, most likely you are not going to sleep now, you are hyperaroused. So I got up from bed, turned the TV on, watched one or two parts of Two and a half men and as this is always funny soon after I forgot about my hyperarousal, the heartbeat slowed down. Then I got back to sleep again easily. Without my knowledge, I would lay in bed, anxiety would grow, and would not sleep a wink. So this is why I will not be back in the dark spot anymore. I know what is going on, no mystery and this removes a lot of pressure.

[@elperronimo]

Hello Daniel, thanks again for the content. I have a question, I noticed after going into a caloric deficit, I gained insomnia, before going to sleep, my heart rate would go high and it felt like I drank 2 cups of coffee(cant sleep obviously). Any thoughts? The caloric deficit was not even a lot, only 400-500 cal. Thanks in advance

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Mikey, You’re so welcome and you know, this is a common and important question. It’s true that things like noise, diet changes, hormone levels, alcohol, withdrawals, medications, side effects and thousands of circumstances can cause sleep disruption. But this is totally different from insomnia. And here is how you can tell one from the other: Sleep disruption is obvious. I was binge drinking and slept poorly. My husband snores like crazy and that’s annoying. The reason for not sleeping well is clear so there’s (1) no pondering/wondering/questioning/researching and (2) no fear or anxiety. Insomnia on the other hand is when there’s an ongoing struggle and it’s not clear that it’s the fear of not sleeping that’s driving the trouble. Therefore there are many questions as for why there’s no or choppy sleep, there’s researching and many theories, there’s trying things to sleep more. There are many teaching points here by the main ones are that the sleep disruption caused by an endless number of circumstances is real, but it’s not self-perpetuating. It stops when circumstances change. And if circumstances don’t change, then the sleep disruption will be at the level where it’s expected. Insomnia on the other hand ends when there’s understanding and clarity and you know nothing is wrong with you and there’s no more fear. Now here’s the thing: when it’s difficult to tell if we have sleep disruption or insomnia, it can seem important to figure out which it is. And this in itself can lead to lots of struggle. In reality, it isn’t important because both call for the same: they are both an invitation to okness. If we have a sleep disruption then this is an inevitable consequence of circumstances we cannot change. A call for no action. If we have insomnia then this is a surface manifestation of fear and it’s driven by the things we do to escape this fear. A call for no action.

[@elperronimo]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thanks for responding

[@kristaquin]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 This is just pure gold right here. This thinking is revolutionary.

[@traceyvance8032]

Love all your videos they are soo helpful but this one and the one with Kristen I can see alot of my struggle in theirs. Also a question i have purchased 3 of your books, set it forget it, NATTO and tales of courage would you read in any particular order might sound a daft question but like which book was 1st 2nd and 3rd hope im making sense lol 🤪😆

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

This is a really special episode Tracey, so glad you found it. And you know, it start with Set it, then TIN and finally tales of courage. Set it is really easy, a nice place to start. But - it’s a little too simplistic in retrospect, so the questions you have remaining, they’ll be answered as you go deeper into the teachings in TIN. And in TOC you’ll see how the teachings are applied in real life!

[@traceyvance8032]

Thank you soo much 😊😊

[@romerjuli5406]

Hi! Im writing this message to you because I started having a very weird thing going on.. I go to sleep around 11 and I sleep until 3 am, and after I start having these weird short-term sleeps ( if I can call them that way) in which I feel like Im dreaming but also I still feel kind of awake. And after I look at the clock, I see that two hours have passed. am I sleeping or what is happening to me?:( I feel like I cant get past that stage and can’t fall into deep sleep. Last night I felt this all night

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Hi Juli, Thanks for sharing and you know, this sounds like something very common that we call hyper sleep… let’s learn about this! - Hyper sleep is when your sleep is infused with hyperarousal. It’s like driving a car with the brake pushed down. Sleep drive and hyperarousal are both present and you can have vivid, bizarre dreams, you can’t tell if you were awake or you slept, you spent the whole night in superficial sleep state or that you time travelled (time skips ahead but you’re not sure you slept). The first thing to know is that hyper sleep is super common and a part of the journey. Nothing strange or unusual! It’s again simply some hyperarousal making sleep superficial. Secondly, you sleep more than it seems when you have hyper sleep! Just knowing this can often be reassuring. Most importantly, when you know the above and don’t respond, just let it be so to speak, these experiences fade along with the hyperarousal. - Hope this helps!

[@romerjuli5406]

@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you! So basically it’s a mistake thinking that I am stuck in the hypnagogic state, right? that can’t actually happen, right?

[@thesleepcoachschool8192]

Anytime! I would say it’s not true that this can happen… yes, we can’t get stuck in any state. Maybe it’s not a “mistake” because it’s not deliberate, but it’s I want to say a misunderstanding!

[@nickyhomann9071]

Interesting to hear but I'm not sure how this is helpful?

[@philthyrich1433]

GREAT VIDEO! IM LEARNING SO MUCH AND I HAVE HOPE NOW. 😎🫰